Big time baiting... should it be legal? And do you consider it hunting?

[Castnshoot]

“
I'm all for regulating baiting in some reasonable forms much like bear baiting, but to ban it entirely is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and it will come back to bite you/us and, eventually, the animals!
“

Elkfromabove, good for you admitting that you rely on bait to harvest your game.

Your baiting methods sound the same as the thousands of others who rely on bait.

I may be reading it wrong, but in your final summation on baiting is it your opinion that to outlaw baiting would be harmful to the game.

If so explain further.

 

[hossblur]

Elk.


I'm all for regulating baiting in some reasonable forms much like bear baiting, but to ban it entirely is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and it will come back to bite you/us and, eventually, the animals!


How exactly do not dragging salt blocks and apples into the forest "bite the animals"?

Also. If you show up opening day and I'm sitting on your bait pile, on public land, we having issues?

 

[Bocephus]

Grizz have you hunted Colorado lately? Spent much time in Idaho the last couple years, how about Wyoming, Montana or Nevada? They aren't exactly earning a shining star for excellent deer numbers or management. In fact Colorado is reeling from an overpopulation of bears and predators because they can't bait or run them with dogs. You've yet to bring anything of value to this thread that I have seen other than our neighboring states are light years ahead of us, which is just plain and simply not true.

 

[Tristate]

Careful guys. If you disagree with the great and powerful Grizz he will put you on ignore which means your opinions will never be important after that.

What is awesome is Every single one of these fellas has ancestors that baited animals and killed them. Now somehow they are better than their own ancestors who did all that just so a few guys could look down their noses and talk about what is and isn't "fair".

Honest question. DOES ANYBODY REMEMBER WHAT THIS IS ALL ABOUT? Do you know why you are here hunting today? Do you know what the goal of hunting is?

 

[hossblur]

Second.

Grizz have you hunted Colorado lately? Spent much time in Idaho the last couple years, how about Wyoming, Montana or Nevada? They aren't exactly earning a shining star for excellent deer numbers or management. In fact Colorado is reeling from an overpopulation of bears and predators because they can't bait or run them with dogs. You've yet to bring anything of value to this thread that I have seen other than our neighboring states are light years ahead of us, which is just plain and simply not true.

Baiting deer equals less bears?

Have you seen the posts about Utah's deer management? In fact there are private groups doing counts RIGHT NOW they are so distrustful.

How does baiting increase deer numbers?

Increase buck:doe?

Help deer herds at all?

It's funny how the best you guys ever do is point somewhere else.

If dumping truckloads of apples out WASNT a big deal, commercial guides wouldn't do it.

Those apples cut into the profit margin. They have to recoup that cost.

Of course it's a big deal. That's why dudes cry so loud about it. That's why they strap weight on their backs and haul it in. That's why they never show the pics of their bait piles. That's why they burn gas, and pay labor to dump them.

Let's at least quit pretending it's no big deal. If it's not, then not doing it really doesn't matter much, does it?

 

[Gator]

So leaving your truck running in the driveway as you go back inside your house is that call "Bait" also.

 

[slamdunk]

15 guzzlers.

Makes you wonder if money was spent across the state how much better the deer herds would be.

It is amazing how much money gets dumped into units a sliver of res hunters will ever touch, while the GS units struggle.

Yeah I know, auction tags, etc.

Just seems like perhaps the % of money spent should correspond to %of hunters.

I know I'm off track

Hoss, the MDF and SFW along with the DNR have been putting guzzlers in around the state and will continue doing so for a long time in an effort to divert game from crossing roads in heavy traffic areas.
That was a huge project on the Paunsaugunt when they installed the many tunnels and water sources, and it has been pure magic for that herd.
I know many dislike the expo and auction tags, but this is part of how that money is being spent.

 

[Bocephus]

You start banning and restricting it for deer and elk etc. only a matter of time before it's banned for predators, you claim to know all about that don't you Hoss? Go over to the CO forum you can read all about it.

Grizz We can bring some wolves into the state too if you want? Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho and Montana have them. Maybe some Grizzlies too Grizz? Our neighbors have them, shoot must be the model to follow? We already have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get a bear bait registered. Let's double wrap that red tape all around this state. It will make it more enjoyable and better experience for us. Banning bait is going to miraculously bring back the good old days of muleys, herds will explode because they aren't eating apples, buck to doe ratio's will hit all time highs. Fawns survival rate will be off the charts, it may even solve winter kill and vehicle mortality. What do you think?

Why is it nobody cares if a bear is "unethically baited" and legally killed, but a trophy buck deer you lose your minds over. Why is that? I think I have a hunch....Get over the trophy pics in the bait pile, they don't die in the bait. You don't drag your deer 400-500 yards back to where you shot it from do you?

 

[slamdunk]

That is exactly what will happen. Wade is licking his chops reading this, cut out all the competition on public, as he draws more deer into his private hunting preserve.

Actually it has already been passed by the Board......and guess who is on that Board ?

 

[slamdunk]

I don't buy that their is so much "drama" on any unit that it will impact a guys hunt, unless you are looking for it. I have spent a lot of time on the Pauns specifically over the last 20 years, and have never ran into any of it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen and I don't spend much time around the private off the top either. You think banning bait will change if a guy is a dickhead or not, and improve your overall hunting experience? Honest question.

If you've not experienced drama on the Pauns, you've not spent much time sitting on guzzlers down there?

 

[Bocephus]

haha I would have liked to of sat in on that debate.....I would bet my paycheck Wade had a motion or two???

 

[grizzly]

Bo, I have hunted Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Montana, and Idaho in the last several years. Their game management far exceeds Utah's.

Your attempt to bring in wolves and bears to the discussion is yet another attempt to distract from the actual facts of baiting as they're completely unrelated and therefore don't warrant a response.

 

[hossblur]

You start banning and restricting it for deer and elk etc. only a matter of time before it's banned for predators, you claim to know all about that don't you Hoss? Go over to the CO forum you can read all about it.

Grizz We can bring some wolves into the state too if you want? Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho and Montana have them. Maybe some Grizzlies too Grizz? Our neighbors have them, shoot must be the model to follow? We already have to jump through all kinds of hoops to get a bear bait registered. Let's double wrap that red tape all around this state. It will make it more enjoyable and better experience for us. Banning bait is going to miraculously bring back the good old days of muleys, herds will explode because they aren't eating apples, buck to doe ratio's will hit all time highs. Fawns survival rate will be off the charts, it may even solve winter kill and vehicle mortality. What do you think?

Why is it nobody cares if a bear is "unethically baited" and legally killed, but a trophy buck deer you lose your minds over. Why is that? I think I have a hunch....Get over the trophy pics in the bait pile, they don't die in the bait. You don't drag your deer 400-500 yards back to where you shot it from do you?

First. Do you not understand the difference in big game hunting, and predator management?

Second. Since your so worried about "they".

How do you suppose it looks to "they" to see a deer getting shot over a truckload of apples?

 

[Tristate]

Bo, I have hunted Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Montana, and Idaho in the last several years. Their game management far exceeds Utah's.

Your attempt to bring in wolves and bears to the discussion is yet another attempt to distract from the actual facts of baiting as they're completely unrelated and therefore don't warrant a response.

FACTS! FACTS? I have seen very few facts on this thread but absolutely none of them came from the anti-bait crowd. Just like Grizzly's last post. Just another opinion.

 

[Tristate]

Come on guys. What's it all about? What are you killing that deer for? I notice none of you can answer that question.

 

[Bocephus]

Bo, I have hunted Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Montana, and Idaho in the last several years. Their game management far exceeds Utah's.

Your attempt to bring in wolves and bears to the discussion is yet another attempt to distract from the actual facts of baiting as they're completely unrelated and therefore don't warrant a response.

I respectfully disagree.

The whole premises of your reasoning banning baiting is a good idea has been based on what our neighbors are doing. I'm simply addressing the fallacies in your reasoning.

 

[Tristate]

I can tell you %100 New Mexico is not in better shape for managing game.

 

[Zwickey]

First. Do you not understand the difference in big game hunting, and predator management?

I see some similarities. Every time the issue of banning bear baiting comes up in a state, there are always a bunch of avid hunters that will come out in favor of banning it. These hunters are guys that have never done it and don't plan to so they would prefer that others can't. Colorado lost it's whole spring season that way. It's not much different than whats going on here, just a different big game animal.

 

[Zwickey]

And I can tell you Idaho deer aren't managed better. The deer herd is in the toilet right now and they are still letting guys shoot 2 bucks with bow or rifle or whatever.

 

[Tristate]

I find humor in Hossblurs assumption that if you don't take a picture next to the apples then you are ashamed.?


If you don't take your lion pic hanging in the tree with dogs around it then you are ashamed.

If you don't take your duck picks floating in bloody water you are ashamed.

If you don't post on faceyspace and instagoogle you must be ashamed.

Any other things I need to be aware of that flag our shame Hossblur?

 

[notdonhunting]

Bo, I have hunted Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Montana, and Idaho in the last several years. Their game management far exceeds Utah's.

Your attempt to bring in wolves and bears to the discussion is yet another attempt to distract from the actual facts of baiting as they're completely unrelated and therefore don't warrant a response.

Go to the thread for any of the mention states and you will read a lot of @#$%^&*! about there game managment and how the deer heards are gone. I don't think any state is doing alot of good now days.
Or there is just alot of complainers now days and nothing is good enough for some.

 

[notdonhunting]

Can anyone answer my question.
What states other than Utah and Idaho allows baiting of bears?

 

[Bocephus]

Wyoming and Idaho are among 12 states in the nation that allow bear baiting and are the only two where both black and grizzly bears reside. The Wyoming Game and Fish Department views bear baiting as an important tool.

Wyomingnews.com

 

[buckhorn]

I wonder what the Pauns would look like after 3 to 5 years of no baiting. Would there be a noticeable difference in the quantity of big bucks?

I'm currently sitting on 23 LE deer pts and I haven't been in a big rush to burn them. I typically try for a random tag on the Henry's archery hunt. However, if the UDWR prohibits baiting in the future I will definitely consider using them for a Pauns archery hunt since all of the obnoxious outfitter bating would be gone.

Someone told me a year or two ago that certain outfitters will actually buy an entire 52 foot truck trailer full of apples and have them trucked down to the Pauns for their baiting operations! Not sure of the validity, but it wouldn't shock me.

My thoughts exactly.
I’m right there with you on this one.

 

[notdonhunting]

Bocephus Thanks for the info . I did not know Wyoming allowed baiting and I did not think there is as many as 12 states.

 

[elkfromabove]

Elk.


I'm all for regulating baiting in some reasonable forms much like bear baiting, but to ban it entirely is throwing the baby out with the bathwater and it will come back to bite you/us and, eventually, the animals!


How exactly do not dragging salt blocks and apples into the forest "bite the animals"?

Also. If you show up opening day and I'm sitting on your bait pile, on public land, we having issues?

1) Maybe not so much so with the apples, though they can provide some needed sugars, but note that I said I used MINERIZED salt and feed blocks. There are several companies that manufacture those items specifically for wildlife and they include many trace minerals (and elements) that the animals need to grow and function normally and those are the only ones I use. I'm sure regulations could be drafted to limit baits to those types. Also, FWIW, I ALWAYS include a mineralized salt block even at the apple sites, but I don't always put apples at the salt sites especially when the salt is used for cattle.

2) With the reduction of available forage areas and the increasing lose of quality forage, the deer aren't doing as well as they could or should be and that's not gonna change! Unless we do more than we are currently doing, eventually, that will reduce the quality and quantity of the herds to a point where hunting has to be drastically limited.

3) You have to remember that mature bucks aren't the only ones using the bait. In fact, nursing does and growing fawns use it much more than the bucks. (The bucks seem to be much more reluctant and distrustful of it.) Many times the fawns have to be moved off of it by their mommies in order to get the drink they came for or move to actual feeding or bedding areas. The bait is just a temporary stop at the candy store. Meanwhile, they are ALL getting some of those trace elements.

4) With another source of those minerals, the deer won't hang around the roads as much and roadkill would decrease.

5) Regulating numbers, locations and timing of sites per hunter and charging bait fees could actually spread out the deer, not concentrate them and could pay for enforcement. The CO's know the locations and don't have to search to find them. And they can drop by whenever they choose (without a warrant, I might add).

6) A 15 to 50 yard shot with a bow (or gun) at a single, standing, broadside, level, relaxed animal you've chosen to take with his (or her) head behind a tree is a much easier and safer shot than some that you've probably taken and recovery is likely to be much easier. Which results in fewer wounded deer.

There are probably other reasons I could think of, but those will have to do for now.

As far as your other question about issues with hunters on my bait sight, I don't care if they hunt there as long as they don't mess it up when they leave. In fact I leave a note in my blind asking them to call me so we could coordinate our schedule if they want to hunt there. Besides, I have other places I can go! AND, since I'm not a trophy hunter, I don't care if they shoot a P & Y or B & C buck or bull. So, the short answer is, no, we're not having issues! A least I'm not!

 

[wstrntines]

I will say this if i had a pauns tag I would bait. I'm sure it can be a rat race down there. But if I waited that long I want a chance at a giant. I'd be completely honest and say I shot it off bait if asked. If I hunted whitetails most places I would hunt off the food source it's too thick in most whitetail country. If I hunted a thick elk unit and they aren't bugling I'll hunt off minerals or off a meadow in a blind. In 09' I hunted the Vernon with a bow I spot and stocked and eventually sat back in the sagebrush off a water hole and killed my buck. It was actually really fun to watch the deer drop in to what I called the ditch and in 5 minutes they'd be at the water. It was cool to see them in their natural state. Nervous at first then they'd calm down them calm down. I even had a young buck walk about 2' from me the first morning sitting the water. Sometimes you have to switch tactics up on hunts and adapt. However if I had a henrys tag I'm spot and stalk as much as possible. I was down there in 2011 helping a guy and that was one of the funnest deer units I've ever been on. I can see where it gets to be a circus on the pauns. there's a lot of roads and a ton of competition. I'll never draw the pauns or henrys unless it's at the expo. But I'd tag along with any of my buddies it they drew. There are pro's and cons to baiting.

 

[Zwickey]

If I had a pauns archery tag and I was planning to do all spot and stalk hunting, I'd think it would be great to have half of the tag holders sitting in ground blinds at their bait sights every morning. Then they aren't competing with me out on the hill.

 

[slamdunk]

If I had a pauns archery tag and I was planning to do all spot and stalk hunting, I'd think it would be great to have half of the tag holders sitting in ground blinds at their bait sights every morning. Then they aren't competing with me out on the hill.

Won't be much to compete for! ?

 

[elkfromabove]

Actually it has already been passed by the Board......and guess who is on that Board ?

Details? Regulated? Total banning? What is actually banned or regulated?

 

[slamdunk]

Details? Regulated? Total banning? What is actually banned or regulated?

It's quite a process and the final details still have to be hammered out before it becomes law.
I wouldn't expect to see it on the books until 2021 at the earliest.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey efa!

They Say Mastur's will be Outlawed!

Details? Regulated? Total banning? What is actually banned or regulated?

 

[Zwickey]

Won't be much to compete for! ?

Well unless they kill them all the first morning, I guess I'll get the first few cracks at them.

 

[buckhorn]

Grizz have you hunted Colorado lately? Spent much time in Idaho the last couple years, how about Wyoming, Montana or Nevada? They aren't exactly earning a shining star for excellent deer numbers or management. In fact Colorado is reeling from an overpopulation of bears and predators because they can't bait or run them with dogs. You've yet to bring anything of value to this thread that I have seen other than our neighboring states are light years ahead of us, which is just plain and simply not true.

Nevada hunting sucks you’re correct don’t waste your time applying here.

 

[notdonhunting]

Buckhorn I think the Nevada thread and the Arizona thread is the only two states that no one is really complaining about the deer numbers and the game managment. Things must be going pretty good in them states.

 

[hossblur]

1) Maybe not so much so with the apples, though they can provide some needed sugars, but note that I said I used MINERIZED salt and feed blocks. There are several companies that manufacture those items specifically for wildlife and they include many trace minerals (and elements) that the animals need to grow and function normally and those are the only ones I use. I'm sure regulations could be drafted to limit baits to those types. Also, FWIW, I ALWAYS include a mineralized salt block even at the apple sites, but I don't always put apples at the salt sites especially when the salt is used for cattle.

2) With the reduction of available forage areas and the increasing lose of quality forage, the deer aren't doing as well as they could or should be and that's not gonna change! Unless we do more than we are currently doing, eventually, that will reduce the quality and quantity of the herds to a point where hunting has to be drastically limited.

3) You have to remember that mature bucks aren't the only ones using the bait. In fact, nursing does and growing fawns use it much more than the bucks. (The bucks seem to be much more reluctant and distrustful of it.) Many times the fawns have to be moved off of it by their mommies in order to get the drink they came for or move to actual feeding or bedding areas. The bait is just a temporary stop at the candy store. Meanwhile, they are ALL getting some of those trace elements.

4) With another source of those minerals, the deer won't hang around the roads as much and roadkill would decrease.

5) Regulating numbers, locations and timing of sites per hunter and charging bait fees could actually spread out the deer, not concentrate them and could pay for enforcement. The CO's know the locations and don't have to search to find them. And they can drop by whenever they choose (without a warrant, I might add).

6) A 15 to 50 yard shot with a bow (or gun) at a single, standing, broadside, level, relaxed animal you've chosen to take with his (or her) head behind a tree is a much easier and safer shot than some that you've probably taken and recovery is likely to be much easier. Which results in fewer wounded deer.

There are probably other reasons I could think of, but those will have to do for now.

As far as your other question about issues with hunters on my bait sight, I don't care if they hunt there as long as they don't mess it up when they leave. In fact I leave a note in my blind asking them to call me so we could coordinate our schedule if they want to hunt there. Besides, I have other places I can go! AND, since I'm not a trophy hunter, I don't care if they shoot a P & Y or B & C buck or bull. So, the short answer is, no, we're not having issues! A least I'm not!

Somewhere between 375k and 250k deer in the state and your support for baiting is you are giving them trace minerals?

If you really believe that, why the apples?

Ever consider you are concentrating deer making them much easier for a cat to grab?

Or that your bringing in bears?

 

[hossblur]

Bo.

Using Your logic. Since we can't ban baiting because it will lead to loss of bear baiting.

I guess your also support using dogs to hunt deer/elk?

I mean you do support universal regulations between undulates and predators, right?

 

[grizzly]

Somewhere between 375k and 250k deer in the state and your support for baiting is you are giving them trace minerals?

If you really believe that, why the apples?

Ever consider you are concentrating deer making them much easier for a cat to grab?

Or that your bringing in bears?

I'm pretty sure there are millions of conservation dollars that could be used on mineral licks.

Or a guy could place the licks for wildlife's benefit, but still not be allowed to hunt over them. Nobody said it's mutually exclusive.

 

[hossblur]

I'm pretty sure there are millions of conservation dollars that could be used on mineral licks.

Or a guy could place the licks for wildlife's benefit, but still not be allowed to hunt over them. Nobody said it's mutually exclusive.

"Honey, I'm not at the strip club cuz I like naked women, I'm concerned about those girls paying for law school"

Seems like my wife would call bullshit, same as dudes baiting to provide trace minerals.

 

[ridgetops]

"Honey, I'm not at the strip club cuz I like naked women, I'm concerned about those girls paying for law school"

Seems like my wife would call bullshit, same as dudes baiting to provide trace minerals.

hoss,
you've said some pretty stupid things over the years but that last comment is right up there with the best of them!

 

[tallelkchaser]

Here are some thoughts I have had while reading through this discussion.
What is the hardest part of hunting big game? IMO - Finding an animal to shoot in range.
What does baiting do: Brings and animal to a specific area that can be killed at close range.
There has been talk of scopes, tech, long range etc. but I cannot think of anything that will actually bring game to you as effectively as bait. As Tri mentioned, they are animals, they can be influenced and even trained with food. We used to feed the deer in the winter up on the Cache and the deer instantly start running to the feed bins once they saw the truck coming. Why?

Now to the question - does this give a hunter and unfair advantage? How does it not? You are introducing something to their natural habitat that will literally change their behavior to regularly come to a specific location. This seems pretty logical to me, but I also agree PEDs and doping should also be illegal in sporting events, seems to be in line with that concept of giving someone an unnatural advantage through an introduction of substances. As grizz mentioned, other states seem to view it that way as well, I don't see why we haven't in Utah other than it helps people with their instagram popularity or pads their pocketbook.
If anyone thinks I am jealous, I could care less, I don't even hunt deer and usually buy spike or cow tags to fill the freezer. Just my 2 cents

 

[Sierra]

Is this WLH’s scouting rig?

 

[Tristate]

Yall have lost your way and forgotten what hunting is about.

 

[hossblur]

hoss,
you've said some pretty stupid things over the years but that last comment is right up there with the best of them!

Yeah.

That was the point.

Baiting deer to keep them off the highway.
Baiting deer to supply their trace minerals.
Baiting deer so we don't lose bear baiting rights.

 

[hawkbill]

I think someone spent to much time at the petting zoo when they were a kid

 

[elkassassin]

Hey efa?

What if they Prove that Your TRASH/BAIT Piles are Responsible for the Incline of CWD?

 

[hossblur]

Heres the reality.

We are not a majority. Hunting will be around until the majority decides otherwise. As Bo keeps saying, our neighbor to the East had majorities that decided baiting bears wasn't going to happen anymore.

As much as I distain ballot box biology, it happens.

I've read the studies. Hunting for meat is not looked down on by the public at large. Add Trophy hunting to that and those opinions change. Hunters are even split on the concept.

Now. Add to trophy hunting visuals of huge piles of apples trucked in to trophy hunt. I've not seen a study, but I'm pretty sure I know the answer.


From a hunting perspective, I like to hunt deer. I saw what those 150,000 tags we cut dud to the heritage and tradition. The uncles, grandpa's, friends who didn't take it seriously, weren't about to stand in line until midnight, or play the app game. They quit. And their votes and money went with them.

I like to hunt. I picked up a bow at 44 because I could see that was the avenue my boys had to keep them in a tag. No kid hangs around without tags.

So here we are. No one believes the deer numbers. No one believes we are doing well. Most believe something needs to be done.

So it seems fairly straight forward. We have to cut our efficiency, or we will lose tags.

I like to hunt. If that means sticks and rocks, I like to hunt.

FLIR, BAIT. Those 2 are pretty low hanging fruit. They are success magnifiers, and they are a real negative PR.

I'd hope trail cam season, 2 way radios follow soon.

LR is probably going to be the hardest.
I'm happy to jump on board.

But you get the easy stuff first. You don't say "LR is worse so we can't do nothing"

Ultimately if we can keep or even add tags by cutting out the gadgets, we all win.

I like to hunt.

 

[hossblur]

I think someone spent to much time at the petting zoo when they were a kid

No. Had cows and sheep. They'd walk right up and put their heads next to a gun for a handful of grain too.

 

[Bluehair]

Seems like you only see the "slippery slope" you don't like.

If say we slid down that slope. It wasn't a secret that deer like orchards. Nothing new. Been happening centuries.

Tgen we slid to dudes loading up the flatbed and dumping apples.

So where did that slippery slope start?

Being "cute" goes both ways.

You may have misunderstood me. The slippery slope I spoke of is the one where you lose the support of key stakeholders. It was specifically response to someone who suggested that where and when landowners can use their land is restricted. And yes, my objection is on selfish grounds. I won't bother trying to defend my position that this is an infringement of my liberty. Keep telling yourselves that those hands on your shoulders are going to bring you a backrub.

I don't understand why pointing out that the landowners consider what they are doing is sound business practice. I will even escalate the cutsieness by proposing that when the landowners do consent to such restrictions it will come at the cost of yet more licenses.

And no, I don't have any skin in the game so my comments are completely irrelevant. But when I post future comments about Utah issues I will stick to the sarcasm and hyperbole that is accepted.

I am thinking about calling Maverick to see if they want to stock little buckets or cartons of apples during hunting season. Maybe put them out front by the firewood bundles. We could market them as locally grown and call them P-cutters or Buckstoppers. If not out front, maybe in the parking lot like the fireworks at 4th of July. Money baby.

 

[hossblur]

You don't own the deer. As a condition of being able to kill one you agree to do so under conditions laid out by code, when you sign that license, you agreed to the conditions.

You don't shoot deer on your property whenever you feel. Why not? Isn't that an infringement of your liberty? Legally you can't make one your pet. Is that an infringement?

Ever look at draw odds? There is no shortage of demand.

You bait for selfish reasons.

There isn't some greater reason. You're not defending liberty. You're not keeping deer from starving. Your not.......

You bait for selfish reasons.

And you will know if you are dumping ag waste for selfish reasons too.

Doesn't make you bad, doesn't make you anything.

But the practice needs to be curtailed. It's become a problem. And it's getting worse.

Not because you toss out a few apples. But because the "few" apples have become semi truck loads.

Not because you do so on your property. But because it's being done on public property.

It's become a big issue.

 

[Bluehair]

Dude, I bait hooks not game animals. And keep your selfish laws off my land.

 

[hossblur]

How's that working for you with building permits, well permits, etc?

You shooting a punt gun? DDT for mosquitos?

Power/electric easements?

How's that property tax on YOUR LAND going.

I'm mean this is "MERICA", right.?

It's 100% your land. Grow as many Apple trees as you want. Dump as many as you can. That will show us commie pinkos.



Good luck. You are going to lose. But good luck.

 

[Bluehair]

That's exactly what I meant (says the sarcasm to the hyperbole).

 

[hossblur]

Believe that would be sarcasm to sarcasm

 

[buckhorn]

Buckhorn I think the Nevada thread and the Arizona thread is the only two states that no one is really complaining about the deer numbers and the game managment. Things must be going pretty good in them states.

Since this topic seems to be trending towards game management I will give you my opinion why I think Nevada and Arizona and the premium limited entry hunts in Utah are doing better than some of the surrounding states.
You don’t hear many complaints about hunts that are managed for mature trophy quality animals. It’s these states and Hunt units that doing well.
Granted these areas mentioned above don’t have harsh winters that could kill a lot of animals. But they aren’t being overhunted either.
It’s unfortunate that we can’t just have total opportunity for everyone to go out hunting big game every year. There just isn’t enough supply for the demand anymore.

 

[hossblur]

Since this topic seems to be trending towards game management I will give you my opinion why I think Nevada and Arizona and the premium limited entry hunts in Utah are doing better than some of the surrounding states.
You don’t hear many complaints about hunts that are managed for mature trophy quality animals. It’s these states and Hunt units that doing well.
Granted these areas mentioned above don’t have harsh winters that could kill a lot of animals. But they aren’t being overhunted either.
It’s unfortunate that we can’t just have total opportunity for everyone to go out hunting big game every year. There just isn’t enough supply for the demand anymore.

That's become a cop out.

We sit around and watch what's happening.


What do the professionals use?

Bait, trail cams, LR, FLIR.

They do it because they get paid to be effective.

Somehow in Utah we just sit back andallow a free for all. Short of drones, what can't you use in Utah?

We see our deer numbers at best peak, but most likely drop. And we say "nothing we can do".

We cut tags. That left the more serious guys. The more efficient. The guys who cared more

The pros try to be 100% effective.

They get pretty close.

Our rates keep improving.

We can't just keep cutting tags. We lose funding, we lose votes, we lose the next generation.

We can't keep getting more and more effective.

We need a mind shift.

HUNT.

We can cap scopes at 3x9.
We can follow colrado muzzy laws.
We can limit let off, electric bow sights.
We can stop baiting.
We can stop FLIR
We can close trail cams during seasons.
We can end 2 way radios.

We can do all that. Decrease effectiveness, increasing deer #, and not lose 1 more guy.

We can all give a little.

Or we ALL will get to sit home.

We can't control growth. We can't control winter,(unless you are AL Gore), we can't control roads.

So that leaves 2 things.

Lower success rates.

Cut tags.

I hunted open sights, I hunted side hammer muzzy.

But I got to hunt.

Sitting home tagless, with your LR rifle, and LR muzzy, with your radio and trail cams, eating apples, seems a lot less enticing.

 

[huntindad4]

That's become a cop out.

We sit around and watch what's happening.


What do the professionals use?

Bait, trail cams, LR, FLIR.

They do it because they get paid to be effective.

Somehow in Utah we just sit back andallow a free for all. Short of drones, what can't you use in Utah?

We see our deer numbers at best peak, but most likely drop. And we say "nothing we can do".

We cut tags. That left the more serious guys. The more efficient. The guys who cared more

The pros try to be 100% effective.

They get pretty close.

Our rates keep improving.

We can't just keep cutting tags. We lose funding, we lose votes, we lose the next generation.

We can't keep getting more and more effective.

We need a mind shift.

HUNT.

We can cap scopes at 3x9.
We can follow colrado muzzy laws.
We can limit let off, electric bow sights.
We can stop baiting.
We can stop FLIR
We can close trail cams during seasons.
We can end 2 way radios.

We can do all that. Decrease effectiveness, increasing deer #, and not lose 1 more guy.

We can all give a little.

Or we ALL will get to sit home.

We can't control growth. We can't control winter,(unless you are AL Gore), we can't control roads.

So that leaves 2 things.

Lower success rates.

Cut tags.

I hunted open sights, I hunted side hammer muzzy.

But I got to hunt.

Sitting home tagless, with your LR rifle, and LR muzzy, with your radio and trail cams, eating apples, seems a lot less enticing.

This times 1,000

Bill

 

[elkfromabove]

Yeah.

That was the point.

Baiting deer to keep them off the highway.
Baiting deer to supply their trace minerals.
Baiting deer so we don't lose bear baiting rights.

You asked me to give you some baiting benefits and I did that. If, in your mind, they weren't sufficient enough to allow some form of baiting to continue, then so be it.

But I thank you for clarifying your own question and the reason for banning baiting when you sarcastically implied that we should ban it because my meager efforts (and those of numerous others) wouldn't save enough deer to allow it to continue. Now we all are assured that your decision to ban baiting has very little to do with saving the deer and has a great deal to do with eliminating hunter competition for trophies, especially those who don't "hunt" like you, whether due to choice or necessity. I'm curious to know how far you're willing to go to accomplish that goal!

 

[hossblur]

You asked me to give you some baiting benefits and I did that. If, in your mind, they weren't sufficient enough to allow some form of baiting to continue, then so be it.

But I thank you for clarifying your own question and the reason for banning baiting when you sarcastically implied that we should ban it because my meager efforts (and those of numerous others) wouldn't save enough deer to allow it to continue. Now we all are assured that your decision to ban baiting has very little to do with saving the deer and has a great deal to do with eliminating hunter competition for trophies, especially those who don't "hunt" like you, whether due to choice or necessity. I'm curious to know how far you're willing to go to accomplish that goal!

Nice spin.

I've never put in for LE deer. I hunt the Manti.

Those 2 sentences prove your spin asinine.

You did post reasons.

One made sense. Selfish reasons.

Saving highway deaths, supplying trace minerals, is bullshit. If that's a by product then so be it. But excuse me if I don't by that's your primary reason.


Do you set out "salt" in places you don't hunt nor plan too?

I shoot a cva accurra with a 3x9, shooting sabots and pellets.

I shoot a 4x12 scope on my deer rifle.

My bow is pretty basic.

I use 2 way radios.

I have 2 cams. Both watching some private property, I hope. They got left this winter because the owner was curious about cats. Hopefully they survived winter.

So my "selfishness" from the list I threw out means I give a little too.

But ya. I'm selfish. I got into hunting to hunt. Hard to do so with tags. I can hunt without gadgets/bait. So can you.

We've tried "do what you want" management. It ain't working

 

[Tristate]

Me me me. You you you.

 

[Tristate]

I like the disease prevention argument. Any idea how we inoculate most wild animals for diseases??? BAIT!?

 

[slamdunk]

This sick doe was reported to us as being bedded in the same spot since yesterday. After it died, it was taken to our health lab for a necropsy where we discovered her stomach was full of corn & she had [...] signs of acute rumen acidosis that explained her diarrhea."

KRDO spoke to wildlife officials who say, while we all love animals, feeding them is not kind, even in the wintertime.

"We know people mean well when they give tidbits to wildlife. What many don’t realize is that feeding big game is bad for the animals and dangerous for people. It’s also against the law. There are lots of good reasons why. While putting out food for animals like foxes and deer seems harmless, repercussions can be disastrous. Please don't feed the wildlife!"

Feeding wildlife is illegal in Colorado.

"Under Colorado law, intentionally feeding big game animals is illegal. The prohibition applies to deer, elk, pronghorn, mountain goats, bighorn sheep, mountain lions, and bears. Violators face a $100 fine."

Hmmmmm.....imagine that!
As I have stated several times to many, including Bo and Tri....my views on baiting big game are not over jealousy......my views are because of THIS!!

 

[slamdunk]

Granted this article is talking about "feeding big game" and not "baiting for killing", but when guys are keeping apple piles fresh and plentiful, you are "feeding".

No there is no mention of apples, but it does say this deer's stomach was full of corn.

I was on the Pauns a couple years back with a guy who used to guide for an Outfitter down there (who's name I will keep anonymous) trying to help a client kill a particular buck he had been seeing.
Since he was out of apples for the year, he put out several bags of corn meal in strategic places and told us to be back here by 3pm and the buck will come feed around 5-6.
Worked like pure magic!

 

[grizzly]

I have the right to poison deer if I want. Civil rights! Liberty! 'MERICA!!!

 

[elkassassin]

A 100.00 Fine?

Most TARDS Have the Attitude of:GIVE ME THE F'N FINE!

 

[elkfromabove]

Nice spin.

I've never put in for LE deer. I hunt the Manti.

Those 2 sentences prove your spin asinine.

You did post reasons.

One made sense. Selfish reasons.

Saving highway deaths, supplying trace minerals, is bullshit. If that's a by product then so be it. But excuse me if I don't by that's your primary reason.


Do you set out "salt" in places you don't hunt nor plan too?

I shoot a cva accurra with a 3x9, shooting sabots and pellets.

I shoot a 4x12 scope on my deer rifle.

My bow is pretty basic.

I use 2 way radios.

I have 2 cams. Both watching some private property, I hope. They got left this winter because the owner was curious about cats. Hopefully they survived winter.

So my "selfishness" from the list I threw out means I give a little too.

But ya. I'm selfish. I got into hunting to hunt. Hard to do so with tags. I can hunt without gadgets/bait. So can you.

We've tried "do what you want" management. It ain't working

I think you need to work on your comprehension skills! You asked for some reasons and I gave you some. I didn't say which one was my primary reason. You just assumed it! You also missed some other stuff! And, you probably could use some wildlife biology lessons while you're at it!

1) In fact, my primary reason for baiting is to get a close, clean, clear, standing, level, broadside bowshot at a relaxed animal in order to reduce the chance of wounding or losing it. I told you that. If you consider that selfish, I guess my definition differs from yours.

2) Since I decided to use salt, I thought it ought to have some residual positive benefits specific to ANY deer, elk or wildlife that used it. So I checked around to see where I could get some and found it at CalRanch. CalRanch sells all kinds of salt and feed for farm animals and they happened to carry wildlife salt products prior to archery season. That's also where I found the wildlife feed blocks which I decided to try, but they were too big to carry and would last too long beyond the season, so I had CalRanch saw them into quarters which gave me 4 for the price of one. I now have enough for several years. And those items do indeed provide some positive benefits. I also told you that! If that is also considered selfish, I'm guilty.

3) You also assumed I'm selfish and haven't already given up something. You listed your deer weapons and some gear, but you know NOTHING about me or my situation or my deer weapons or gear.
- I own 1 trailcam which I use every 3 or 4 years when I have a pronghorn tag, just to make sure there's a legal buck using the waterhole.
- cell phone that I use to call home and take some pictures.
- 2 bows. Both of them Mathews Solocams.
- A Tradewinds Husky model H-5000 bolt action in .308 which I've never yet used on a big game hunt. I bought it a few years ago from a pawn shop to eventually replace my bows.
- A Remington Woodmaster 740 semi in .308 that I inherited from my father. It was last used on a deer a couple of years ago by my grandson whom I mentored on my Quichapa doe tag.
- A Mossberg 12 ga pump slug gun with a 1X scope that I plan on using this year if I get another Quichapa doe tag or a depredation tag from a friend. It's getting harder for me to pull my bow and I need a short range weapon.

That's it! In fact, the last time I shot a buck deer with a gun was about 1970 when I shot a small coastal mule deer in Ventura County California and that was with a sportsorized British 303 that I later sold in order to help pay for the birth of my premature son. Keep your guns, but don't assume you're the only one who has given something up.

4) This whole thread and discussion is not about the ethics of shooting "deer" over bait. It's about your view of the increased success of shooting BIG BUCKS over bait. Don't pretend it's anything else.

5) And don't assume I approve of the behavior of some of the others who bait in some kind of "do what you want" management. I definitely do not! They not only give baiting a bad name, they are foolish for using so much in order to get the job done. It turns into feeding, not baiting and that's not good for the deer. They're also foolish for trying to bring deer away from their normal routes and routines especially so close to the rut and winter fat build-up. The bucks have a harder time dealing with those changes. And I have a hard time accepting that type of "baiting".

6) Yes, you're right. I COULD hunt without bait, but I WON'T!!! I've already been hauled off the mountain twice for A-fib because I "hunted" like you think we all should and it's not something I want to do again. A calm, quiet sit in a ground blind is just fine, but a long hike or stalk into a canyon ain't my idea of fun!

I think I'm done with this thread and this subject. If we end up totally banning baiting, I'll accept that decision and move on.

 

[slamdunk]

A 100.00 Fine?

Most TARDS Have the Attitude of:GIVE ME THE F'N FINE!

Yep....6 bull elk were poached by park city, shot and left.
Wanna know what will put the brakes on that chit?
Felonies for each count!

 

[elkassassin]

Did They Catch Them PUNK?

 

[slamdunk]

Did They Catch Them PUNK?

Nope......asking for anyone with information.

 

[elkfromabove]

Dah! None of the scenarios you describe would be any different no matter what the deer were eating! If you remove ANY source of feed (or water) they're gonna quit going there and if you just bump them from that source, they're gonna wait a while before they dare come back, but they will, indeed, come back! There is NO difference. Deer are gonna be deer!

 

[elkfromabove]

Easy answer:
Move the buck.
As a guide myself of 20+ years, we get pretty good at creative photography, mostly to get recognizable background out of the pictures.

Trust me on this.....I have pictures of very good bucks feeding on apples in the Paunsaugunt, full velvet middle of the day.

So, as a guide for 20+ years, it's ok for you to move the dead buck for creative pictures, but it's not ok for others to do the same?

 

[elkfromabove]

Slamdunk doesn't have to be bitter. Maybe he sees it like many do- an unfair practice. That doesn't mean I know how he feels. I don't like baiting. Idaho doesn't allow it so that is how I was raised. I try to understand Utah but can't. In Idaho we aren't allowed Modern Muzzleloaders either. Utah has become a state where almost anything goes to get game. To top that off there are too many hunters. I can't understand it. It sounds like they need to cut some Outfitter licenses too.

And I grew up in Utah where baiting is legal and I don't understand why it isn't legal in Idaho! It obviously hasn't made one iota of difference in the herd population decreases (or increases) nor in the hunter numbers.

 

[elkfromabove]

I don't think jealousy matters in reference to baiting. I think it isn't fair hunting. Go put salt blocks all over for everyone -jeesh

And I think it is fair hunting!

 

[DeerMadness]

And I think it is fair hunting!

Well, I think we all have our own opinions and it is nice that most of us just share or state our grounds.
Very good to see you post a reply like that Elk! I'm not being facetious .

 

[elkfromabove]

And while the guy who waits 17-20 years to draw his Paunsaugunt tag actually"hunts" his tail off to kill a 160" buck and gets home to see 4, 220" on Instagram from the same unit from one Outfitter, well....that's just how it's done in Utah.
[/QUOTE]

"Jealousy" has absolutely nothing to do with baiting, anyone can chum.

…………………...

And while the guy who waits 17-20 years to draw his Paunsaugunt tag actually"hunts" his tail off to kill a 160" buck and gets home to see 4, 220" on Instagram from the same unit from one Outfitter, well....that's just how it's done in Utah.

It sounds like jealousy to me!

And, since "anyone can chum", it's NOT an unfair advantage to the guides. You could do what they do and get the same results if you chose to.

This whole thread is about jealousy. It's about how others are allowed to hunt and shoot trophy deer in a way you don't like. In fact, anyone who kills a big antlered deer is automatically put under legal and ethics microscopes by many of the MM crowd, even on other threads. (Unfortunately, even doe and "Pisscutter" hunters aren't exempt from this scrutiny!)

One view that seems to be avoided, but appears to me to be the "real" reason for all of this hoopla. The Boone and Crockett Club allows entries from states that allow baiting as long as it's legal in that state. And, they expect other members to respect the animals and hunters from those states. Well, since you don't want to respect those that bait, you can release yourselves from that obligation by making it illegal in Utah. And, in your minds, you can also further level the playing field with guides whom you also don't like 'cause they do things you either can't do or refuse to do to be successful.

Yes, it's about jealousy alright!

 

[huntindad4]

Perhaps the unfair advantage to which some have spoken, is not the unfair advantage of baiters over non-baiters. Rather the unfair advantage of the baiter over the animal.

It obviously works (creates an unfair advantage over the animal) or nobody would care one way or the other.

Bill

 

[hossblur]

I don't care if it's doe hunting. I'm for banning bait.

For a guy who is worried about ethical **** placement, or trace minerals, you seem real preoccupied with trophy hunting.

Perhaps YOUR inability to chase those "trophy" deer anymore so you bait, is because YOUR jealous of guys who can?

 

[elkfromabove]

I don't care if it's doe hunting. I'm for banning bait.

For a guy who is worried about ethical **** placement, or trace minerals, you seem real preoccupied with trophy hunting.

Perhaps YOUR inability to chase those "trophy" deer anymore so you bait, is because YOUR jealous of guys who can?

Since you make so many assumptions about me, my hunting history or my motives, one would think you would get better at it, but such is not the case. You're actually getting worse!

My inabilities to hunt like you have NOTHING to do with chasing "trophy" deer ANYMORE, because I've never chased "trophy" deer in the first place! Even while I was young and able, trophy hunting was something I wanted no part of. I saw what that mentality did to my cousins on the family hunts and to after hunt conversations in the halls of my high school and bragging and/or ridicule about killing an animal, especially base on antler size, was not my cup of tea. It still isn't! Additionally, I don't view hunting as a competitive sport, so I'm not jealous of anyone who hunts. They are not my competition, the wild animal I'm after is!

 

[slamdunk]

So, as a guide for 20+ years, it's ok for you to move the dead buck for creative pictures, but it's not ok for others to do the same?

Where did I say it's not ok to move animals to take a picture?
All I implied was in reference to whomever said they never see kill pics at a bait pile so they move their animals out of pictures.

 

[Bluehair]

I'm going to be very disappointed if at least one 2020 killshot doesn't have an apple in its mouth.

 

[DeerMadness]

And while the guy who waits 17-20 years to draw his Paunsaugunt tag actually"hunts" his tail off to kill a 160" buck and gets home to see 4, 220" on Instagram from the same unit from one Outfitter, well....that's just how it's done in Utah.

It sounds like jealousy to me!

And, since "anyone can chum", it's NOT an unfair advantage to the guides. You could do what they do and get the same results if you chose to.

This whole thread is about jealousy. It's about how others are allowed to hunt and shoot trophy deer in a way you don't like. In fact, anyone who kills a big antlered deer is automatically put under legal and ethics microscopes by many of the MM crowd, even on other threads. (Unfortunately, even doe and "Pisscutter" hunters aren't exempt from this scrutiny!)

One view that seems to be avoided, but appears to me to be the "real" reason for all of this hoopla. The Boone and Crockett Club allows entries from states that allow baiting as long as it's legal in that state. And, they expect other members to respect the animals and hunters from those states. Well, since you don't want to respect those that bait, you can release yourselves from that obligation by making it illegal in Utah. And, in your minds, you can also further level the playing field with guides whom you also don't like 'cause they do things you either can't do or refuse to do to be successful.

Yes, it's about jealousy alright!
[/QUOTE]
Not jealous at all. I have a 30 " wide buck and if I never get another that big I'm happy. If I could change a law myself there would be no bait piles in any state for deer. Bear baiting is ok.

 

[hossblur]

When the state stopped the Nov muzzy hunt and moved it to Sept, was that jealousy related?

When it shut down the Henry's for 5yrs, was that jealousy related?


When it banned drones was that jealousy ?

It's comical to read guys, who are baiting, tell guys who don't they are jealous.

Of what?

I'm not following what the professionals do trying to replicate their tactics hoping to replicate their results.

The reason baiting stays in the shadows is because even guys who do it, aren't super proud of it.

It will get banned. And not by antis. Not by PETA. But by people who know what it is, why it's used, and what it results in.

Hopefully soon after baiting we get jealous of tech and LR, because despite a tiny minority of those claiming we are just jealous, we all know what that's about too.

Hunting and agriculture are 2 different things. If you ara confused, their are game farms where you can feed critters, then shoot them.

There are trout farms too, but we don't consider that fidhing either.

 

[hossblur]

Since you make so many assumptions about me, my hunting history or my motives, one would think you would get better at it, but such is not the case. You're actually getting worse!

My inabilities to hunt like you have NOTHING to do with chasing "trophy" deer ANYMORE, because I've never chased "trophy" deer in the first place! Even while I was young and able, trophy hunting was something I wanted no part of. I saw what that mentality did to my cousins on the family hunts and to after hunt conversations in the halls of my high school and bragging and/or ridicule about killing an animal, especially base on antler size, was not my cup of tea. It still isn't! Additionally, I don't view hunting as a competitive sport, so I'm not jealous of anyone who hunts. They are not my competition, the wild animal I'm after is!

"How I hunt"

Since you are confussed, I'll help you.

Like the vast majority of Utah hunters, I get up in the morning, lace up my boots and go PURSUE game.

Since you make so many assumptions about me, my hunting history or my motives, one would think you would get better at it, but such is not the case. You're actually getting worse!

My inabilities to hunt like you have NOTHING to do with chasing "trophy" deer ANYMORE, because I've never chased "trophy" deer in the first place! Even while I was young and able, trophy hunting was something I wanted no part of. I saw what that mentality did to my cousins on the family hunts and to after hunt conversations in the halls of my high school and bragging and/or ridicule about killing an animal, especially base on antler size, was not my cup of tea. It still isn't! Additionally, I don't view hunting as a competitive sport, so I'm not jealous of anyone who hunts. They are not my competition, the wild animal I'm after is!

"Hunt like me"?

You realize the definition of hunt is:

To pursue and kill wild animals for food or sport.

PURSUE
WILD

Again. You keep talking about Trophy, or antlers.

I don't.

You keep trying to spin an issue.

Baiting is bad because it turns deer from wild animals to semi tame. It's bad because it concentrates deer making them much more susceptible to predators. It's bad because concentrated deer will more readily pass disease. It's also bad from a PR perspective.

It wasn't personal when we hunters decided me hunting deer in Nov was a poor idea. It wasn't because of jealousy. It was because it was better for the resource that I didn't.

No different here.

 

[hossblur]

At some point the panic of coronovirus will settle down.

When The dust settles, there is going to be a discussion, rightly or wrongly, about diseases that could cross to humans.

CWD, in this country will be near the top. Not increasing the potential spread of it in deer/elk at bait piles, is a no brainer.

Try telling a soccer mom that your Apple pile is more important than her precious snowflake not contacting a zombie deer.

 

[Tristate]

I'm proud of baiting.

"people who know what it is"

A hunting strategy.

", why it's used"

To attract deer.


", and what it results in."

Dead deer.


I'm pretty sure those are all reasons we try and get a deer tag. Are you unhappy that the goal of getting a deer tag is to kill a deer????? Welcome to reality little fella.



"At some point the panic of coronovirus will settle down.

When The dust settles, there is going to be a discussion, rightly or wrongly, about diseases that could cross to humans."

I'm pretty sure we have been having that discussion ever since the bubonic plague hit Europe. Welcome to the real world.

"CWD, in this country will be near the top."

No it won't. We have prion diseases in humans now and their discussion isn't "near the top".

" Not increasing the potential spread of it in deer/elk at bait piles, is a no brainer."

Maybe we should erect giant high fences which halt the deer and elk migrations in states. That would actually do more to stop the spread if we want to just start with "no brainers".

"Try telling a soccer mom that your Apple pile is more important than her precious snowflake not contacting a zombie deer."

How would a snowflake encounter a zombie deer? You really don't know how logic works Hossblur.

 

[BOHNTR]

Well, I usually don’t get in on these type of discussions, as they generally turn negative. But, I’ll give it a shot, here.

I don’t hunt on bait and really have no desire to do so. As a bowhunter only, I guess it would be advantageous to do so and increase my odds......Just not my thing. Having said that, I would HATE to regulate (create laws) that would prohibit it for others simply because I don’t partake in the practice. There’s enough chips breaking away from our privilege rock by those who hate our way of life.....I don’t feel the need to help them at all. My .02

 

[huntindad4]

I would ask those who want to keep the status quo, what are you willing to give up? Anything?

Has the hunting in your area declined or improved?

Do you have kids and or grandkids that hunt? Do you want to leave anything to them?

The days of the big family hunts are waning. And I'm not talking about grandma has a tag and 20 family members go as spotters and packers. Nothing wrong with that at all just not the same experience.

There are only so many things that can be done from hunting perspective to improve the resource, or even keep it where it's at now.

We can keep decreasing tags (opportunity).

We can take out more predators. I greatly promote this, but it's difficult. Public opinion on this has decreased this opportunity in many states and eliminate it in others. Keep killing them if you can.

We can limit our methods of take so success rates drop. Thereby allowing the same number of hunters to hunt and take less of a toll on the resource or a greater number of hunters to hunt (opportunity) and take the same numbers on a given unit.

Antler restrictions. Probably similar to method of take. Although a controversial subject that many cited science proving it doesnt work there is some evidence it does if used short term.

My personal opinion is I would give up my semi long range setup rifle and compound bow that I am in love with and my rangefinder to hunt with a recurve with my kids and hopefully someday with my grandkids.

If I thought we could stop things where they are right now with technology and opportunity I wouldnt be so concerned.

Trust me, I understand there is a lot more going on out there that effects the animal numbers. Many things can be fixed with support. But if we dont do the things we can how do we expect to get the support of the general public to give up their house on the winter range etc.. their answer would be well if there are less deer stop shooting them.

Oh we can (and probably will) keep doing what we are now and hope it lasts long enough for us. But isnt that the REAL selfish answer.

Guys think that people suggesting answers like no baiting, no long range etc. are the selfish ones. I dont.

I just dont believe it is sustainable.

Bill

 

[Cheater]

Well, I usually don’t get in on these type of discussions, as they generally turn negative. But, I’ll give it a shot, here.

I don’t hunt on bait and really have no desire to do so. As a bowhunter only, I guess it would be advantageous to do so and increase my odds......Just not my thing. Having said that, I would HATE to regulate (create laws) that would prohibit it for others simply because I don’t partake in the practice. There’s enough chips breaking away from our privilege rock by those who hate our way of life.....I don’t feel the need to help them at all. My .02

Disagree, I believe some thoughtful self-regulation also helps to keep external emotion based over reach at bay.

 

[BOHNTR]

Disagree, I believe some thoughtful self-regulation also helps to keep external emotion based over reach at bay.

Can you cite a specific example of that?

 

[hossblur]

Can you cite a specific example of that?

Not shooting sow bears?

This year in waterfowl there were folks bragging about targeting trumpeter swans. In doing so they brought about early end to tundra swan hunt. Will probably lead to some regulation.

 

[Cheater]

Hollywood would say there is no such thing as bad publicity. I don't believe that to be the case in the hunting world. Things like baiting only put more negative eyeballs on us from PETA/anti types. A lot of work has been done to promote the value that hunters play in conservation, I hate to see that diminished with these kill at all cost, redneck type tactics.

Hossblur's examples also work just fine. Beyond that, corporations don't employ internal auditors, compliance departments, etc. because they're fun or free...

 

[Bocephus]

Hoss you have mentioned over and over again that those who bait never post or talk about how they killed over bait, but yet in your example you use how guys were "bragging" about their kills. There is no validity in that example in fact it is nothing but contradictory to your own position on it.

Cheater the only ones that are hurting us in this debate is ourselves and garbage comments like the one you posted. "Redneck" type tactics...... please, that is pathetic, and your own opinion of what YOU think a fellow hunter to be.

 

[buckhorn]

Perhaps the unfair advantage to which some have spoken, is not the unfair advantage of baiters over non-baiters. Rather the unfair advantage of the baiter over the animal.

It obviously works (creates an unfair advantage over the animal) or nobody would care one way or the other.

Bill

Well said!
I agree with that point of view.

 

[hossblur]

Hoss you have mentioned over and over again that those who bait never post or talk about how they killed over bait, but yet in your example you use how guys were "bragging" about their kills. There is no validity in that example in fact it is nothing but contradictory to your own position on it.

Cheater the only ones that are hurting us in this debate is ourselves and garbage comments like the one you posted. "Redneck" type tactics...... please, that is pathetic, and your own opinion of what YOU think a fellow hunter to be.

Im waiting to see the pics. If you have pics of Pauns bucks the big 3 outfitters took sitting on a pile of apples, I'd sure like to see them.

 

[grizzly]

Im waiting to see the pics. If you have pics of Pauns bucks the big 3 outfitters took sitting on a pile of apples, I'd sure like to see them.

I don't have social media but I'd imagine they all post kill pics and trail cam pics on Instagram. Any apple piles or hero posts about the hard work it is hauling bushels of Fuji's out to the back 40?

 

[hossblur]

Hoss you have mentioned over and over again that those who bait never post or talk about how they killed over bait, but yet in your example you use how guys were "bragging" about their kills. There is no validity in that example in fact it is nothing but contradictory to your own position on it.

Cheater the only ones that are hurting us in this debate is ourselves and garbage like the one you posted. "Redneck" type tactics...... please, that is pathetic, and your own opinion of what YOU think a fellow hunter to be.

Robert Kirby: Of mice and men and bait hunting

I killed six animals in the past two days. I lured them in with bait and then callously snuffed them out.

www.sltrib.com

Baiting big game is legal in Utah — for now. But is it right?

Imagine ambling through Utah’s national forests and coming across piles of apples inexplicably scattered on the ground.

www.sltrib.com

Robert Schmidt: Baiting animals is an affront to the sport of hunting

Hunting is a unique sport in that the “referee” is actually the hunter. Hunters, as arbitrators on what is right and wrong during the process of hunting, vary in how they interpret the rules of the hunt.

www.sltrib.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/utah/articles/2019-10-07/utah-weighing-whether-to-regulate-baiting-big-game

Utah weighing whether to regulate baiting big game

Utah wildlife officials are considering whether hunters should be allowed to use bait to lure big game such as elk and deer.

apnews.com

Want to reconsider that point about us hurting ourselves.?

 

[hossblur]

I don't have social media but I'd imagine they all post kill pics and trail cam pics on Instagram. Any apple piles or hero posts about the hard work it is hauling bushels of Fuji's out to the back 40?

The post them with LR rifles. Including the companies hashtag. Yet for some reason, not an Apple in sight

 

[Bocephus]

Robert Kirby: Of mice and men and bait hunting

I killed six animals in the past two days. I lured them in with bait and then callously snuffed them out.

www.sltrib.com

Baiting big game is legal in Utah — for now. But is it right?

Imagine ambling through Utah’s national forests and coming across piles of apples inexplicably scattered on the ground.

www.sltrib.com

Robert Schmidt: Baiting animals is an affront to the sport of hunting

Hunting is a unique sport in that the “referee” is actually the hunter. Hunters, as arbitrators on what is right and wrong during the process of hunting, vary in how they interpret the rules of the hunt.

www.sltrib.com

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/utah/articles/2019-10-07/utah-weighing-whether-to-regulate-baiting-big-game

Utah weighing whether to regulate baiting big game

Utah wildlife officials are considering whether hunters should be allowed to use bait to lure big game such as elk and deer.

apnews.com

Want to reconsider that point about us hurting ourselves.?

Nope

 

[elkassassin]

So for all You Masturs!

Get Yourself a Hammer or a F'N Tire Iron!

You Don't need a 12,000.00 Gun To Slaughter a Baited Deer at 10 Yards!

 

[hawkbill]

Trail cameras, bait, drones,long range muzzle loaders and 20 spotters, this must be why they call it the Super Bowl of Mule Deer Hunting.