Cool, glad you folks can agree on what you want out your Utah elk hunt.
Almost as bad as the fat, lazy, pumpkin patch army moving in the last week of the LE archery hunt to claim their spots, "scout", and site their Lapuas in.
Why not just increase archery tags?
I believe a lot of us want the fun we had hunting, seeing, guiding, profiting from and helping friends and families kill the monster bulls that seemed endless back in the early 2000's, but that's long gone.
Ok fair enough. Dutton, Boulder, Beaver, Panguitch Lake, SW Desert all within an hour or less. Not sure I would consider Monroe, Fish Lake, or Pahvant anymore top tier. Regardless, I don't buy their is a surplus of bulls on any of the units mentioned.
Belly button is definitely not Enoch.
I agree ?
Both Enoch and Richfield are close to elk units that have had and still could still grow thousands more cows, calves, spikes, immature and mature bulls. Take your pick, they have in the past and they can again………. The elk can but…….. “they” won’t let them. They aren’t what they once were because “they” changed the management strategies. They are doing it again.
I wish more people would listen to you and quit putting in for the Monroe. Full of junk bulls nobody waste your points on that unit.
Don't we have more elk in Utah now then we did in the glory early 2000's?
"Elk" yes, not Trophy bulls by definition.
Haha ok you can have your Fish Lake tag. I'll gladly take a Boulder, Dutton, Pang Lake tag...Monroe meh.
Sorry, I don’t accept that as a fact, at least not on the Fish Lake, Monroe, Dutton, Pahvant, Beaver, Boulder, Panquitch. Not even close on the over all population nor on the number of cows, calves, spikes, immature nor matures. If you show me data that says otherwise I’ll call it pure BS.
I'm thinking boozefreak would fit after tonight's posts.
Bull Chit, in my opinion! Nor is it broken down by the units I identified. Believe it you want too, if it fits your saddle.
Lol....you asked for data, there's the statewide number trends and objectives ?
Woodruff I see your point but we have 17,000 spike Hunters that we get thrown into that pool I like keeping them separate and out of the way. Imo
Yes I did. I also said I’d call BS. Did I do that too?Lol....you asked for data, there's the statewide number trends and objectives ?
Yes you certainly did ?
And I have done my digging Slammy. And it’s not in the pages of Utah’s big game reports. I’ve lived on the Monroe, for over 47 years, 5 miles from the Pahvant, 6 miles from the Fish Lake, I’ve owned a cabin at Fish Lake for 23 years, I’m 31 miles from the Beaver and 23 miles from the Boulder. I’m 51 miles from the Dutton. I’ve followed these elk for 45 years. You want to accept populations by trends? I can give trends on ever one of these units, both when they went from next to none, up to thousands and back down to what they are and why.
I may be misreading your post. With my plan, there would not be the 17,000 spike hunters. For example - there could be 3,000 any bull hunters (I am not saying it would be 3,000, but significantly less than 17,000). Then, the numbers could be monitored year to year.
There will always be a few big bulls on Boulder. It's thick, nasty, and bulls can get age. I would say to you it's laughable if you think there is a surplus of bulls. Because, well there's not.
Fair enough.
But what is "Capacity" by the ones claiming it's there?
Southern units have plenty of capacity to hold more elk than they currently are. Regardless of beef, sheep, or winter range loss. Those things don't help, but there are areas that historically have held elk, and lots of elk on the winter range and the numbers have dwindled. They've cut late antlerless tags back, but a few years too late.
Oh I believe you on Dutton, it's been quiet for a couple years.
I must apologize, my post wasn't necessarily pointing directly at your comments, I was referring to the Carrying Capacity and threw a little community jibber jabber for the audience ?
I actually don’t think there is a huge surplus of bulls as a matter of fact they’ve killed far too many cows on that unit. I think it has a good bull to cow ratio compared to most elk units and it’s know where on its way to the population cliff the beaver is about to fall off of. There are also areas completely void of elk. I think the Boulder is a lot harder to screw up based on the thick remote country it holds. And I’m in no way a huge fan of spike hunting or cow hunting from August to the end of January. I’m all for moving the rifle hunt out of the rut and increasing archery tags to push guys through the point pool and keep low success rates.
I have spent a lot of time on the Fish lake over the last 5 to 10 years mostly Gooseberry and 7 mile and there is plenty of elk.
The Dutton has the amount if elk it should have, that unit should have never had the amount of elk that it had back in the early 2000s. We complain because we have no deer have any if you guys consider that the fact the deer population has gone down hill right along as the elk numbers increased.
This is 100% true for many hunters - most couldn't differentiate a 280" bull from a 320" bull. A 300" bull is a big mature bull, no matter what anyone says. If the early 2000's of elk hunting did anything, it distorted the view of trophy hunting in our state. In order to get 380"-400" bulls you have to let a lot of bulls live to reach that size because many will NEVER reach that point. Just ask yourself this- how many Shaquille O'Neale's do you see walking around our country?
An elk’s first antlers are usually spikes. In good habitat, a bull may have a 5-point rack as a 2-1/2-year-old and then a small six-point rack as a 3-1/2-year-old. Its best antlers, however, usually come at age 9-1/2 to 12-1/2, so remember that not every 6×6 is a trophy.
www.rmef.org
If my memory services me right, they removed what they wanted removed and also found many hunters were killing a broken antlered 6x6 bulls………. Image that.
Yes, hunters will definitely use those loopholes to kill a big bull, just as they do now with a mature bull having multiple points on one side, spike on the other.
This is why I said 4 points or less. It should take the "trophy" part out of the equation. One would think anyways. haha
OK but what would that accomplish???? The majority of 2 year old bulls are 5x5s.
I see plenty of 3x and 4X bulls they are not all jumping straight to 5x it would get a few more out of the point pool and not have a adverse affect on the top end
Nobody is burning points to shoot a 3x3 or 4x4 rag horn bull.
This idea should be unit specific not statewide and in some instances to address a small population of bulls and yes folks will burn points to shoot rags…..
Couldn’t agree more with this. We need to manage for herd balance and opportunity.
Your gonna stand by it huh?
I completely understand DLL can be "Micro Managed", but I'd like to hear a legitimate reason why we cannot better manage our habitat usage in our public LE units.
I know a lot of hunters who would burn points
I really don't consider myself a trophy Hunter but what's the difference between a 4x4 and a spike? I love the spike program It give 17,000 or so people a chance to hunt without impact on the herd opening up more opportunity for others on Le and general season tags.
Lol I would like to see the people that would burn points on that hunt, not only would you be burning points, you are also going into the waiting period.
It’s just a thought some guys would really think it was a big difference some won’t
Agreed 100%.
And we can hunt them by helicopter up there!?
I freaking love this picture, I'll never get tired of it!!?
Gotta be 25k by now, they ranged from 17 to 21 when I worked up there years ago.
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