B&C and P&Y

Butts

Butts

Active Member
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990
Are these two groups honoring hunters, trophies harvested or both?
I’m trying to get a real consensus of how the public land hunter feels?
If “you” as sportsman/or women had the opportunity and fortune of taking a trophy animal would you share it with the world?
Or would keep it in the “family “.?
 
I like knowing what my trophies score so I do have them scored and I keep the B&C score sheets but I've never entered any of them it's just a personal thing when my kids take possession of them they'll know what they score and when and where I killed them
 
Self-satisfaction is enough for me. I wouldn't share it or score it.

With that said. I'm sure i'm in a small group of hunters doing that. I have a friend who does the same thing but I don't know anybody else.
 
I score my animals as a reference only. I wouldn’t have it done officially or put them in either book. As cool as a 200 inch deer or 400 inch bull is, the preparation, the time spent scouting and the hunt mean much more than numbers to me. Watching my 80 year old dad kill an antelope left handed because age has messed up his dominant eye or being with my kids when they shot their first Muzzleloader bucks is infinitely more priceless than a club. I respect folks who choose to enter their record book heads. It’s just not what I choose to do. Numbers do not define a trophy to me. It’s part of it, but the experience and the memory hold much much more. I don’t hunt for recognition from strangers. I hunt for the renewal of my soul, and to spend time with the people I care most about.
 
I would say they’re honoring the animal. This is because they exclude the Game Farm animals from the record book, allow poached animals as picked up, have the message of fair chase and claim the records are used to show how well a State/Province is doing to manage game. To me, those things are more about the animal than the hunter. They do honor the hunter with another award they don’t give out too often called the Sagamore Hill award.

I’ve never killed anything that would make the record book. Close, but not big enough. My dad kille one mule deer that nets 181” in NM in 1974. I plan on getting it officially scored and entered someday.
 
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I personally do not believe just because you get your animal scored and list in either book means anything more than knowing how your trophy compares to all other trophies. For some it might be bragging rights but that means very little to me.
I do not have a IG account or a FB acount so I chose not to follow any of these pepole that put there lives on public display. But I do appreciate those that share there successful hunts on MM.
 
When I was young I used to hope some day to harvest a "book" animal. It was a "goal" I thought I would probably never reach. But a half century later I've decided that having my name in an obscure book is less important to me and more about how incredibly big some animals get.
I think for all of us, there is personal satisfaction in taking a top notch animal, whether we share it or not. I have lucked into two, which I have listed in the book.
However, my highest scoring animal is not registered because I would have to strip the velvet off him to do so. That would ruin an incredible hunting memory. Creating great memories is my hunting "goal" these days.

I don't know any hunters that need their ego's stroked, myself included. As a group, we are pretty good at pointing out, "mine is bigger than yours" whenever we can!

To me, the value of the scoring systems is really seeing what kind of animals are out there and giving us something to dream of in our pursuits.
 
I have a 3 official P&Y entries but that was from over a decade ago. I've also have 3-4 which were officially scored since then and opted to leave them out of P&Y and B&C books more because of laziness than anything else.

Whether someone places them in the official book or not is just a personal thing and totally up to them. It doesn't matter either way.

And yes, they honor the animal more than the hunter which is as it should be.
 
I’m with some that think they honor the animal!! I also enjoy looking at what’s been harvested in the past and present and can’t help but to wonder what other animals have been taken that I will never see or hear about. Kinda of a bummer cause I enjoy it to no end !!!
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
I’m with some that think they honor the animal!! I also enjoy looking at what’s been harvested in the past and present and can’t help but to wonder what other animals have been taken that I will never see or hear about. Kinda of a bummer cause I enjoy it to no end !!!
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I understand where you're coming from but for some of us, hunting is personal and like to keep it that way.
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
I’m with some that think they honor the animal!! I also enjoy looking at what’s been harvested in the past and present and can’t help but to wonder what other animals have been taken that I will never see or hear about. Kinda of a bummer cause I enjoy it to no end !!!
Click to expand...
If you really want to honor the animal don’t kill it. Go kill a cow or wild horse...
 
I've got to agree with Butts and DoubleDrop. Not a fact. Two of my hunting mentors have killed multiple book animals, and you would never know it without going to their houses. I've got two that may be "book" worthy, but will never be measured by any official scorer. Hell, i haven't even looked up the requirements to see that they are. They're just big damn animals. To each their own, but to say that people change their minds as soon as they have something to brag about is false. Some might, but I would venture to guess that their opinions didn't change, they just finally found a way to act on those opinions.
 
dgwoody said:
I've got to agree with Butts and DoubleDrop. Not a fact. Two of my hunting mentors have killed multiple book animals, and you would never know it without going to their houses. I've got two that may be "book" worthy, but will never be measured by any official scorer. Hell, i haven't even looked up the requirements to see that they are. They're just big damn animals. To each their own, but to say that people change their minds as soon as they have something to brag about is false. Some might, but I would venture to guess that their opinions didn't change, they just finally found a way to act on those opinions.
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How do you know they are book animals? 99.9% of “book” animals not entered don’t make the book. And if they don’t care about the book why reference it?
I’m calling BS!
 
Slightlysober said:
How do you know they are book animals? 99.9% of “book” animals not entered don’t make the book. And if they don’t care about the book why reference it?
I’m calling BS!
Click to expand...

One is a of the muleys my buddy has is a 39" 9x9 that has never had a tape on it. It was shot in the late 80's. Same guy has another 8x8 shot in 2011 that also has never been measured. Just because you don't understand it or agree with it, doesn't make it untrue.
 
I have had two animals scored by B&C/P&Y certified scorers because they were unique animals and the scoring process wasn't straight-forward. I was more curious to see the correct way to score them more than anything. I didn't enter either of them in the books. I score the rest of my animals myself. I have two reasons for not entering animals. #1 is I don't like drawing any extra attention to my hunting areas. #2 is, the B&C and P&Y systems were originally developed as a measuring tool for conservation. It seems the systems have turned into more of a measuring contest than anything conservation related. My two book animals were taken in Montana and I don't want to give our fish and game agency any credit that isn't deserved. Those animals definitely didn't get to the size they did because of any special management.
 
I’ve been called over the years to measure bucks at people’s places that have a wall full If bucks “that will easily make the book”. Most of them were incredible animals that weren’t conducive for the scoring system and fell substantially short. Maybe one out of 20 over the years has made the minimum.

Funny how people aren’t interested in ‘the book’ until they actually shoot something that is eligible. ?
 
bigsky2 said:
I have had two animals scored by B&C/P&Y certified scorers because they were unique animals and the scoring process wasn't straight-forward. I was more curious to see the correct way to score them more than anything. I didn't enter either of them in the books. I score the rest of my animals myself. I have two reasons for not entering animals. #1 is I don't like drawing any extra attention to my hunting areas. #2 is, the B&C and P&Y systems were originally developed as a measuring tool for conservation. It seems the systems have turned into more of a measuring contest than anything conservation related. My two book animals were taken in Montana and I don't want to give our fish and game agency any credit that isn't deserved. Those animals definitely didn't get to the size they did because of any special management.
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Your reason #1 is the reason i don't post things online. It's also the reason the previously mentioned mentor does not even talk about a lot of his kills with others outside his group of friends.
 
BOHNTR said:
I’ve been called over the years to measure bucks at people’s places that have a wall full If bucks “that will easily make the book”. Most of them were incredible animals that weren’t conducive for the scoring system and fell substantially short. Maybe one out of 20 over the years has made the minimum.

Funny how people aren’t interested in ‘the book’ until they actually shoot something that is eligible. ?
Click to expand...


So are you saying that I started this thread on the premises that I have killed a P&Y and B&C animal? Therefore I’m instantly INTERESTED?

Tell me what is the minimum on mule deer and Rocky Mountain elk? Non-typ and typical. You seem like a great advocator for The Pope and Young club?
 
There is a lot of science that comes out of those books pertaining to growth, habitat producing growth, etc.

I think its good to enter one if you kill one that will.

Having said that i think what turns us off is the " I want a 340+ bull", or "a 180 deer guarantee" lines we see around the commercial hunting world. That is a selfish pursuit. Scoring one after the fact seems more about the animal.
 
The booner that’s not entered ?

D542FE54-9AD2-49B8-AC99-31AC19F393CA.jpeg
 
Butts said:
So are you saying that I started this thread on the premises that I have killed a P&Y and B&C animal? Therefore I’m instantly INTERESTED?

Tell me what is the minimum on mule deer and Rocky Mountain elk? Non-typ and typical. You seem like a great advocator for The Pope and Young club?
Click to expand...

I don’t know if you you have or haven’t......really don’t care either way.
Figured you were interested since you started the thread......otherwise perhaps you’re just trolling? ?

Minimum for which Club? I’m an official measurer for both.
 
You know if I would kill an animal that would make the B&C Main Book heck yes I’d enter it because the record book minimums are so high and it’s there in that book forever. My 10 point whitetail missed the One Time B&C Book by 3/8” and his left main beam had just lost about 2” or so and yes I would have entered him If I could of found that piece that broke off if it as allowed, as many guys that I know in my area 98% of them never seen a buck that size much less harvest one, and I was lucky enough to do so.

Joe
 
What the OP is trying to figure out is if he can enter his poached animals? Stop beating around the bush butts! MANY on here know who you are.
 
yoteduster said:
I like knowing what my trophies score so I do have them scored and I keep the B&C score sheets but I've never entered any of them it's just a personal thing when my kids take possession of them they'll know what they score and when and where I killed them
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You do realize that B&C and P&Y OM's donate their time and effort to hunters as representatives of the clubs......it isn't really fair to abuse their limited time just for fun....right??
 
Homer said:
You do realize that B&C and P&Y OM's donate their time and effort to hunters as representatives of the clubs......it isn't really fair to abuse their limited time just for fun....right??
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@Homer have you ever walked into a store and left without buying something?
 
Homer said:
the store clerks are getting paid.....what is your point??
Click to expand...
So you took advantage of services and they didn’t get squat. You know the point. You get paid to score animals. Maybe not monetary but in other ways ???
 
slamdunk said:
I have guided quite a few, but have not yet had an opportunity to pull my own trigger on one.
Click to expand...

You know what Slam, where I live I hear guys talking about field measuring deer. Now if your on a paid hunt with limits that’s a good idea, but here’s what I found out when I shot my 10 pointer when I caught him out of the corner of my eye there was no doubt it was a very nice one
 

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