Kill the Trail Cam Bill

travishunter3006 said:
Jesus... I'll start by answering #3 first.... I have used a trail camera. I typically buy new batteries for my camera and then let it sit until the batteries go bad. This year I found a trail camera and pulled the card, read the pictures and put the card back. I did see one really nice yearling 2-point. Real nice buck. I bet he was murdalized by that trail cam. damn... what a shame. My trail camera has caught more people wandering through my camp than deer or elk on the mountain. I understand that the point of you asking me this question was to catch me up in being selfish or maybe intellectually dishonest, but you have failed. Read on for your next set of internet armchair failures...

In response to question #1: No. No it does not. I really don't understand how you don't understand how cameras work. I hope by the time this settles that you'll maybe google a bit of information on cameras and see that they take pictures.

In response to #2.... No, using a trail camera during season does not give a guy an advantage during the season.

Now, In response to my response, since you don't like my prior arguments and factually based points... you may only reply using consonants. You may actually only reply using facts. You need to prove to me, in order to ever change my mind, in these two areas:

1- more deer are killed and those kills are directly related to the aid of a trail camera (I don't see how this can be proven since cameras don't operate weapons.... but I digress)

2- Those deaths directly related to the use of a trail camera have substantial negative impact on the deer herd in general.


I'd try and write out a list of things you're unable to use in response but I'm not one to tie another's hand behind his back during a valid discussion, unlike you.



All I have done is call out the hypocrisy of those who would support the measure. Their nasty lady claws have come out in full strength. Rarrr. You are a hypocrite for supporting the banning of a camera that literally does nothing to kill an animal while you run around with modern day weapons and call yourself a hunter. I took a picture through my spotting scope at an elk that was more than two miles away. I turned myself into fish and game for killing that elk with a picture so you didn't have to.

Until you use sticks and rocks to kill your way up the food chain and obtain only natural resources to fashion spears and bows you will be a hypocrite. I know this is hard for you to swallow so drink some water after reading this and cool off, calm down, it will be okay.

Lastly, arguing on the internet is fun, but please don't ne the guy that tries to date me in PM's. Nobody likes him and I'm not into dudes.
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Travis,

I’ll give you credit for two things. First, you answered my questions and second, you actually made me laugh. Thank you. We’ll leave it to those who care to read your answers to decide for themselves how good they are and who might need to cool down a bit.

I have no desire to change your mind or to prove anything to you. It wasn’t my intent. That said, you may want to give my post a quick re-read to make sure you understand the reasoning and examples I offered to support my point of view. In particular, look closely at this sentence: “Everyone knows a trail camera can’t physically kill a buck.”

If you’re actually interested in an honest, productive dialogue with someone, online or in person, you may want to reconsider your communication approach. Your propensity toward name calling, unfounded accusations, baseless claims, and personal attacks aren’t usually very helpful. You’ll do better if you treat others better... just sayin.

Finally, I’m not exactly sure what Jesus has to do with any of this, but I’ll leave that to you, Him, and your mirror...

Rimrock
 
Rimrock said:
Thanks for your answers and your candor. We could use more of that around here...

I shot him with a rifle, in bow range... :)
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Rimrock said:
Travis,

I’ll give you credit for two things. First, you answered my questions and second, you actually made me laugh. Thank you. We’ll leave it to those who care to read your answers to decide for themselves how good they are and who might need to cool down a bit.

I have no desire to change your mind or to prove anything to you. It wasn’t my intent. That said, you may want to give my post a quick re-read to make sure you understand the reasoning and examples I offered to support my point of view. In particular, look closely at this sentence: “Everyone knows a trail camera can’t physically kill a buck.”

If you’re actually interested in an honest, productive dialogue with someone, online or in person, you may want to reconsider your communication approach. Your propensity toward name calling, unfounded accusations, baseless claims, and personal attacks aren’t usually very helpful. You’ll do better if you treat others better... just sayin.

Finally, I’m not exactly sure what Jesus has to do with any of this, but I’ll leave that to you, Him, and your mirror...

Rimrock
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I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Let's be clear though, calling someone a hypocrite isn't name calling. Calling you a dumb dumb stupid head is name calling. Many people on this site don't have thick skin and it shows. (Please don't take offense to that last line, it wasn't meant as "name calling") I just don't know how to talk to the generation of "getting my feelings hurt" as a pointed and frank conversation has always been my style. As always, you are a hypocrite per the definition: a person who indulges in hypocrisy. Hypocrisy being: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

You admitted to shooting a deer with a rifle that was in bow range. To apply your own logic of the trail camera issue, you should have beat the deer to death with your hands, much like the dead horse of a topic you're still beating here. I honestly don't care if I hurt your feelings as Ben Shapiro would say, "facts don't care about your feelings." And, as previously denoted, you may claim to have moral standards when it comes to hunting, but your very own behavior fails to conform.
 
travishunter3006 said:
I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. Let's be clear though, calling someone a hypocrite isn't name calling. Calling you a dumb dumb stupid head is name calling. Many people on this site don't have thick skin and it shows. (Please don't take offense to that last line, it wasn't meant as "name calling") I just don't know how to talk to the generation of "getting my feelings hurt" as a pointed and frank conversation has always been my style. As always, you are a hypocrite per the definition: a person who indulges in hypocrisy. Hypocrisy being: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform.

You admitted to shooting a deer with a rifle that was in bow range. To apply your own logic of the trail camera issue, you should have beat the deer to death with your hands, much like the dead horse of a topic you're still beating here. I honestly don't care if I hurt your feelings as Ben Shapiro would say, "facts don't care about your feelings." And, as previously denoted, you may claim to have moral standards when it comes to hunting, but your very own behavior fails to conform.
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Travis,

Another swing and a miss. I hate to break it to you, friend, but you don’t have the ability to hurt my feelings, regardless of the words you use. You’re clearly off in the weeds with your hypocrisy mirror, so I’ll leave you to it.

Enjoy...
Rimrock
 
Rimrock said:
Travis,

Another swing and a miss. I hate to break it to you, friend, but you don’t have the ability to hurt my feelings, regardless of the words you use. You’re clearly off in the weeds with your hypocrisy mirror, so I’ll leave you to it.

Enjoy...
Rimrock
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Handsome fellow staring back at me. :)
 
Less rifle tags and more archery and muzzy tags. Same number of tags, so DWR still gets its money with lower success ratio. Herds have a chance to recover. Leave technology alone. Problem solved, no?
 
Now that the trail camera regulations have been removed from the bill, I am curious to see how the Wildlife Board tackles this issue. This is obviously a controversial and emotional issue for sportsmen. I am not judging anyone that uses trail cameras since they are currently legal. In fact, I currently use them at times. We as sportsmen, however, need to start regulating ourselves and the technology we use to hunt or we will continue to see the herd numbers and quality decline. Trail cameras seem like a logical place to start but that will likely not be the end of the discussion.

Hawkeye
 
But.........................!

It'll Take Years to get one item Banned while 5 New Pieces of Technology will be Invented & Used & Abused!

This is TARDville!

Where Any & Every Thing Goes!
 
Elk, what is your solution to the technology issues? Where would you start? I know that you are frustrated with the current condition of our herds, and I share those concerns. But, let's stop complaining for a minute and talk possible solutions. If you were king for a day (or Director of the DWR), what would be the first 3 things you would change to help our struggling herds?

Hawkeye
 
Hey Hawkeye?

Did You Not Ever read HELL-RIGHT?

It's Enough to make Most Hunters BAWL!

Hawkeye said:
Elk, what is your solution to the technology issues? Where would you start? I know that you are frustrated with the current condition of our herds, and I share those concerns. But, let's stop complaining for a minute and talk possible solutions. If you were king for a day (or Director of the DWR), what would be the first 3 things you would change to help our struggling herds?

Hawkeye
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Utah Can & Will Grow Quality Big Game Animals of All Species!

WHEN MANAGED PROPERLY!

NOT LIKE THE DEER HERD HAS BEEN MANAGED FOR THE LAST 49 F'N YEARS!
 
Vanilla said:
Has change.org ever successfully brought a change to anything? Even a single time? On any topic?

Instead of signing a worthless online petition, contact your legislators and talk to them about it. Click this link, type in your address and you’ll see who you need to reach out to.

District Map

le.utah.gov le.utah.gov

I have really mixed feelings on this bill, personally. I don’t love it, but see why some people think it’s necessary. However you feel, if you want to be involved, then get involved. But do it by talking to the right people.
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Well said!!
 
Elk, I'm trying to have a serious discussion here. Please identify first three changes that you would implement to help our deer herd. Would any of them have to do with limiting technology?

It is easy to complain about how our deer herd is in the crapper, and I agree with you on that point. But bitching and moaning about how proposed changes such as limiting trail cams will not make a difference because there are 49 other problems affecting the herd does nothing to solve the problem. I agree that trail cams are not the only problem impacting our herds but we have to start somewhere.

So once again, please identify the three changes that you would first make to help our deer herds if you were "DWR Director for a Day."

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye, I’ve been down this road with him. He will give you nothing. All you’ll get is yelled at about you don’t F’n understand and he’ll threaten to post HELL F’N RIGHT again.

And you’ll get to read about how the color of one’s shirt or material on their pants will save the deer. You know, all the quality management decisions in his 50 points!

Love ya Bessy!
 
LOL Niller!:D

I Think the Only Part of HELL-RIGHT that Bothered You was the Clothing Attire!:D

And You Know I put That Part of HELL-RIGHT in there Just for You!:D
 
I'm As Serious as It Gets Hawkeye!

I Don't Know that There's any Just 3 that could be put at the Top!

You're a Smart Guy Hawkeye Or You Wouldn't have the Job You Have!

What We Have Here Is Poor Deer Herd Management for the Last 49 Years & Counting!

Think about it!

49 F'N Years!

And Now Some have Finally realized the Quality/Quantity of the TARDville Herd is Declining!

It Didn't Take Me 49 Years to see it & alot of Other Sportsmen Have seen it as well!

But Think about it!

49 Years Of POOR Management!

100 Years Of Technology!

40+ Years of GREED!

40+ Years of $$$ Ruling the Roost!

Add All The BS Associated with Hunting in today's World!

And You Think 3 Changes/New Rules are gonna Fix it?

(((You're Smarter than that!)))

I Can't Really put the other 49 Reasons in any particular Order!

3 Changes alone Fixes Nothing!

Like I've Told You many Times!

If I Was in Charge the Average Joe Blow Hunter would Weep with the Changes I'd Make!

And Hawkeye You Ask if I Think Technology is one of the Issues?

Yes Sir I Do!

And There Ain't One of us Not Contributing to the Problem!

I Started out with a Hawkens SmokePole & I Still Have it!

Yes I Have Better SmokePoles Today!

But Guess What?

I Had Lots More Fun Chasing Big Bucks with My HAWKENS that I Could Rarely Harvest with it than I've Had Since with the Technology of the Newer Guns & The Utah Oath of:EVERYTHING FLIES with Weaponry!

MUZZLE-LOADER My ASS!

These Are One Shot Rifles!

100 Yard StickFlippers!

1,000+ Yard Rifle Long Range Bombers!

The Difference is at Least Back in the Days of HAWKENS We Seen Better Bucks,We Might not of been able to Harvest Them but at Least We Seen Some Quality Animals!

IMO it was way More Fun Back then!

It's Gonna Take More than 3 Changes Hawkeye!

We've Stacked a Good 100 Reasons why the Deer Herd is not doing worth a DAMN in a Big Pile & I Truthfully don't Think just 3 changed is gonna Help & it Don't Matter Which JUST 3 You Pick First!

Anybody Remember when TARDville went to 30+ Units for better Management?

(How Quick We Forget!)

Show Me the Better Management,Show it to Me!

I Can't Pick Just 3 Hawkeye,3 is not Enough!

I've Already Listed what would be the 1st on My List Though!

Managing Game For Strictly MONEY/GREED would come to a GAWD-DAMNED End in a Big F'N Hurry!

Fat Chance of that Ever Happening,RIGHT?









Hawkeye said:
Elk, I'm trying to have a serious discussion here. Please identify first three changes that you would implement to help our deer herd. Would any of them have to do with limiting technology?

It is easy to complain about how our deer herd is in the crapper, and I agree with you on that point. But bitching and moaning about how proposed changes such as limiting trail cams will not make a difference because there are 49 other problems affecting the herd does nothing to solve the problem. I agree that trail cams are not the only problem impacting our herds but we have to start somewhere.

So once again, please identify the three changes that you would first make to help our deer herds if you were "DWR Director for a Day."

Hawkeye
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I like that Bessy thinks all these technological advances came from and are only used in Utah. Seems rational.
 
I Don't Think that at all Niller!

But You Gotta admit!

Anything Goes in TARDville!

Question Niller?

List The Regulations for Utah SmokePoles!

You Take the Average SmokePole that Most TARDS Pack to Colorado & It'll need a Trimmin!





Vanilla said:
I like that Bessy thinks all these technological advances came from and are only used in Utah. Seems rational.
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Hawkeye said:
Elk, what are the first three changes you would make to help our herds?

Hawkeye
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Here’s my top three.
Let’s see if elkassassin agrees.
Shouldn’t be that hard to post your top three elk.

1- Drastically cut the tag numbers on general season rifle hunts.

2- Ban scopes on muzzleloader hunts.

3– Ban baiting.
 
You Need to EDIT # 2!

If One Weapons is Getting Trimmed!

You Need To Trim the other 2 Weapon Types as Well!




buckhorn said:
Here’s my top three.
Let’s see if elkassassin agrees.
Shouldn’t be that hard to post your top three elk.

1- Drastically cut the tag numbers on general season rifle hunts.

2- Ban scopes on muzzleloader hunts.

3– Ban baiting.
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elkassassin said:
You Need to EDIT # 2!

If One Weapons is Getting Trimmed!

You Need To Trim the other 2 Weapon Types as Well!
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There's no requirement of equivalency. They changed the scope requirements on muzzleloaders once without expanding the lethality of other weapons; they can certainly do it again, but the other way.
 
That's BULLSSSHHIITT!

Either You Don't Remember Hunting With a Recurve or You're Too Young To Know?

And I Guess You Haven't Noticed any Change in Rifles over the Years?

IT'S ALL 3 WEAPON TYPES!

But You're Just Like 90% of All Hunters Out There!

You'll Put the BLAME on Just One Weapon Type!

I SAID:

WE ARE ALL GUILTY OF THE DESTRUCTION OF GAME HERDS WITH ALL THE MODERN TECHNOLOGY!

So grizzly?

You're One that Would Vote For Change on JUST Muzzle Loaders because YOU Think they are the only Culprit?

I'll Put this Nicely:

WAKE THE HELL UP!






grizzly said:
There's no requirement of equivalency. They changed the scope requirements on muzzleloaders once without expanding the lethality of other weapons; they can certainly do it again, but the other way.
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Bess, take a deep breath. He didn’t say muzzleloders were the only culprit. He said that when they allowed for magnification scopes on MLs, they didn’t expand any other weapons at the time. So taking away the scopes would return things to what they were before the fairly recent expansion of ML tech.

Just take two seconds and read before you freak out. You’re sounding like tristate now.
 
"Just take two seconds and read before you freak out. You’re sounding like tristate now."

At least I am getting through to somebody now. :ROFLMAO:
 
Elk, I agree that there are many issues negatively affecting our herds. I don’t know that I could list 49 factors but I agree that the problem is multifaceted. That being said, we have to start somewhere. Rather than complaining every time someone proposes a starting point, why don’t you recognize that you have to start somewhere. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time! Regulating baiting and trailcams is a starting point. Let’s start there and then move on to your 47 other issues.

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
Elk, I agree that there are many issues negatively affecting our herds. I don’t know that I could list 49 factors but I agree that the problem is multifaceted. That being said, we have to start somewhere. Rather than complaining every time someone proposes a starting point, why don’t you recognize that you have to start somewhere. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time! Regulating baiting and trailcams is a starting point. Let’s start there and then move on to your 47 other issues.

Hawkeye
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Nope, you pass either all 50 right now, or do nothing. That's the only way to go about this Hawkeye!

WAKE UP!

YOUR F'N BLIND IF YOU DON'T SEE IT!

STOP MANAGING FOR F'N MONEY! (Honestly, what does this even mean??? What is the measurable change here?)

I look forward to seeing rules about the color of one's truck and how many stickers you have to put on it...all in the name of saving the mule deer, of course!

Bess, come on man, you can do it. Two specific policy/rule changes you'd start with. Hopefully Hawkeye doesn't mind me reducing that from three to two. Come on, just two. We know and acknowledge that two won't fix the problem, but you are elected king of this issue, and given power to make two changes, and two changes only this year. What are they going to be?
 
I’m sure most of you all know that here in Nevada scopes are NOT legal during muzzleloader only hunts.
I prefer it that way. It’s actually more fun hunting when you have to use skill to get closer.
Muzzleloader hunts are my first of the choices in Nevada.
I think it’s a more quality Hunt.
If folks are into that and want to shoot longer ranges with a rifle then that’s great apply for the rifle hunts.
Should be that way in Utah also. Get rid of scopes on muzzleloaders on Muzzy only hunts.
 
elkassassin said:
Hey Niller?

We Talking About Fixing TARDvilles Herd?

Or Another States Herd?

JUDAS!
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I mentioned Nevada because you may want to know what is working in your neighboring states.
And I might add that Nevada’s deer herds are doing fine and us residents aren’t bitching about it all the time like you are.
It doesn’t surprise me that you are defensive about muzzleloaders since you recently invested in several long range muzzleloaders. I bet you have highpower scopes for them also.
 
Hey Hawkeye!

I Don't Know How Many Years You've Been in the Field?

But I'm Sure If You Thought Back even 25 Years You Could Easily Come up with 25 Items/Things that's Done Our Herds No Good!

"YOU HAVE TO START SOMEWHERE"

I've Asked You & Niller & Everybody-else about the Game Plan of Going to 30+ Deer Units!

This Mighta Worked With Proper Management!

Has It Worked?

How'd That Pan Out For Everybody?

So You're Working on 2 Things to Ban?

The Time You Get them JUST 2 Things Banned 5 More Pieces of Technology Will Show Up & Be Allowed!

Banning 2 Things & 2 Things Only is Like Pissing in the Wind!

I'm Not against Change!

But Answer a couple Questions for Me Hawkeye!

When People BAWLED & along came a SHED SEASON put in to Law!

Who Lost on that Deal?

The Honest Sportsmen,that's Who!

Not Against the Shed Season!

But It's Basically UN-ENFORCED!

When Law Abiding Hunters Park their Wheelers/Quads at the "ROAD CLOSED TO MOTORIZED VEHICLES" beyond this Point Sign & Hike Their Asses Off and along come Joe Blow that said Piss on the Sign/Law I'm riding up in here & Blazing Illegal Trails Rather anybody Likes it or not Who Lost on that Deal?

The Honest Guy again!

With Very Damn Little ENFORCEMENT!

I Could Go On & On!

But I Won't!

It's FUBAR!

F'D UP BEYOND A REPAIR!

One or two or three Little PISSCUTTER Bans Will Fix ABSOLUTELY-F'N-NOTHING!

And Please Tell Me How You'll Enforce the Bans Hawkeye?

I've Already Talked with a few Officials on the Trail-Cam Ban if it Passes!

They Are Relying on other people in the Field/Woods to Enforce it!

I can't Imagine there Being any ASS-WHOOPINS in the Field when the Ban Takes Place & People start Gathering Plastic in the Woods & The Owner of the Plastic is Hid & Waiting for them!

I'm Not Saying I'm Against it!

I'm Saying if You're Getting it Passed in to Law You Must Have a Way of Enforcing that Law!

I GUARAN-GAWD-DAMN-TEE YOU There Will be People Still Hanging them on Trees with the Attitude of:"JUST GIVE ME THE F'N TICKET"!

Their Attitude Might Be Different if it wasn't Just a Little Ole PISSCUTTER Fine!














Hawkeye said:
Elk, I agree that there are many issues negatively affecting our herds. I don’t know that I could list 49 factors but I agree that the problem is multifaceted. That being said, we have to start somewhere. Rather than complaining every time someone proposes a starting point, why don’t you recognize that you have to start somewhere. How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time! Regulating baiting and trailcams is a starting point. Let’s start there and then move on to your 47 other issues.

Hawkeye
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Hey buckhorn!

Even My Newer SmokePoles are Considered Short Rang Weapons in today's World!

I'm Not Defensive About It!

WE ARE ALL HURTING OURSELVES!

I'm Not Against Clamping down on SmokePoles!

Just Sayin When It Happens You Can Clamp Down on Archery Equipment & Long Range Rifles as Well!

If We're gonna GIVE,We're ALL gonna GIVE!


buckhorn said:
I mentioned Nevada because you may want to know what is working in your neighboring states.
And I might add that Nevada’s deer herds are doing fine and us residents aren’t bitching about it all the time like you are.
It doesn’t surprise me that you are defensive about muzzleloaders since you recently invested in several long range muzzleloaders. I bet you have highpower scopes for them also.
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elkassassin said:
Hey buckhorn!

Even My Newer SmokePoles are Considered Short Rang Weapons in today's World!

I'm Not Defensive About It!

WE ARE ALL HURTING OURSELVES!

I'm Not Against Clamping down on SmokePoles!

Just Sayin When It Happens You Can Clamp Down on Archery Equipment & Long Range Rifles as Well!

If We're gonna GIVE,We're ALL gonna GIVE!
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Yes I know gunwerks and some custom makers are building muzzleloaders that can shoot further than your Remington Ultimates but it is the high powered scopes on them that crossed the line.
A gunwerks or Remington ultimate without a scope is only as good as the shooters eyes. For most of us that’s about 200 yds max.
But like you say in Utah almost anything goes and that’s the main problem you have.
By the way Nevada also has Trail cam restrictions. It seems to be working here.
 
Come on Elk. Stop playing chicken little and name 3 changes you think would help our herds. Criticizing everbody else's ideas while sitting around paralyzed will only lead to further decline. I don't have a pefect solution but I believe we should be willing to consider and research every option, including:

-No baiting
-Limiting trail cams
-No scopes of muzzleloaders
-No smokeless powder for muzzleloaders
-Limiting technology for longe range rifles
-No slider sights for archery
-Increased predator control
-Allowing hunters to take a cougar or bear with a deer/elk tag
-Increased highway fencing
-No doe tags
-Increasing objective limits for elk units
-Mandatory harvest reporting
-Increased penalties for poaching and related violations
-Decreasing season lengths
-Decreasing tag numbers
-Limiting shed hunting
-Reducing off road travel during seasons

I don't think that any one of these items will solve the problem. However, I believe that each of these potential changes may help our struggling herds. To be fair, there are pros and cons to each potential change but we as sportsmen need to start having difficult conversations and whatever we ultimately decide to do will require some sacrifice for the betterment of our herds and the sport we love.

If we keep doing the same thing we can expect the same result!

Hawkeye
 
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Hey Hawkeye!

You're about 40% in to a HELL-RIGHT!

Hawkeye said:
Come on Elk. Stop playing chicken little and name 3 changes you think would help our herds. Criticizing everbody else's ideas while sitting around paralyzed will only lead to further decline. I don't have a pefect solution but I believe we should be willing to consider and research every option, including:

-No baiting
-Limiting trail cams
-No scopes of muzzleloaders
-No smokeless powder for muzzleloaders
-Limiting technology for longe range rifles
-No slider sights for archery
-Increased predator control
-Allowing hunters to take a cougar or bear with a deer/elk tag
-Increased highway fencing
-No doe tags
-Increasing objective limits for elk units
-Mandatory harvest reporting
-Increased penalties for poaching and related violations
-Decreasing season lengths
-Decreasing tag numbers
-Limiting shed hunting
-Reducing off road travel during seasons

I don't think that any one of these items will solve the problem. However, I believe that each of these potential changes may help our struggling herds. To be fair, there are pros and cons to each potential change but we as sportsmen need to start having difficult conversations and whatever we ultimately decide to do will require some sacrifice for the betterment of our herds and the sport we love.

If we keep doing the same thing we can expect the same result!

Hawkeye
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Bessy, it’s not just about bans. You can make regulation and management changes that are not bans.

Here’s the deal: you won’t post up any real ideas because you don’t have any. You’d rather just pizz and moan than actually solve the problem. Because if we solved the problem, what the heck else would you do if you couldn’t constantly pizz and moan?

Here are the three things I would do first off the bat:

1- All 530+ conservation and expo tags are returned to the state every year. I’d then turn around and do a super raffle for one OIL tag for each species and each LE species to bring the state direct revenue. This will immediately begin to help with point creep and over the next 5 years would increase the impact on point creep.

2- Said revenue would earmark specifically for more highway fencing/underpass/overpass work. That is the only thing I’d use the revenue, and we’d challenge true conservation organizations (not fake welfare recipients only) to match funds and help with the progress.

3- We’ll stop using age objective (elk) and buck/doe ratios (deer) to determine tag numbers. There has to be a better way. I can’t tell you exactly what that way would be, but I’ll be listening to the experts, not greed, when I decide what that better way is.

Bessy, I know these three things will not solve all our problems. But they are a start. Hawkeye has a pretty good list above. Go ahead, use it as a cheat sheet and give us your answers. We know you have problems.
 
elkassassin said:
I Named about 50 Changes that would Help The Herds!

Most BAWLED!

Even Niller Didn't Like it!

He Doesn't wanna Give Up His 385.00 Sitka Camo Briefs!
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I don’t own a single piece of Sitka gear or clothing. You can ban Sitka if you’d like. Or any other clothing brand. I’m sure it will really help our herd numbers in your mind.
 
CHEAT SHEET?

Seems Like Your Short List & Most of Hawkeyes are Part of HELL-RIGHT!

Who's Been Pizz & Moaning more than anybody over the Buck to Doe Ratio Management that does NOT Work?

You Should Be able to Answer just one Question Niller?
 
Vanilla said:
Bessy, it’s not just about bans. You can make regulation and management changes that are not bans.

Here’s the deal: you won’t post up any real ideas because you don’t have any. You’d rather just pizz and moan than actually solve the problem. Because if we solved the problem, what the heck else would you do if you couldn’t constantly pizz and moan?

Here are the three things I would do first off the bat:

1- All 530+ conservation and expo tags are returned to the state every year. I’d then turn around and do a super raffle for one OIL tag for each species and each LE species to bring the state direct revenue. This will immediately begin to help with point creep and over the next 5 years would increase the impact on point creep.

2- Said revenue would earmark specifically for more highway fencing/underpass/overpass work. That is the only thing I’d use the revenue, and we’d challenge true conservation organizations (not fake welfare recipients only) to match funds and help with the progress.

3- We’ll stop using age objective (elk) and buck/doe ratios (deer) to determine tag numbers. There has to be a better way. I can’t tell you exactly what that way would be, but I’ll be listening to the experts, not greed, when I decide what that better way is.

Bessy, I know these three things will not solve all our problems. But they are a start. Hawkeye has a pretty good list above. Go ahead, use it as a cheat sheet and give us your answers. We know you have problems.
Click to expand...
?‍♂️
 
The Only Reason I Mentioned Camo Clothing in HELL-RIGHT was Just for You Niller!:D:D:D

Does Ms Niller Press all of Your Shirts?:D

You're a Picky Little F'R about Your Clothing and You Know it!
 
I'd like to make a motion that nobody is allowed to post about some archived thread from who-knows-how-many years ago.

If there were as many posts with actual ideas as there were posts talking about some old thread, we maybe would have gotten somewhere by now.
 
Last edited:
So Hawkeye?

I Guess You Missed HELL-F'N-RIGHT?

I Posted This in Late 2019!

DAMN!

Sure Looks Like Most of Your Changes are In HELL-F'N-RIGHT?

There 3+ Changes in HELL-F'N-RIGHT!

So Read Up!

And Niller RE-READ!

Niller Didn't Miss it!

The Changes are Many & Some of you will Think they are HARSH!

You're Right!

The Extended Archery Hunt will Come To an End & Now!

The Late Muzz Tags are Gone as Well!

For CFS We Don't have the Deer Numbers for these kinda BS Hunts for GAWDS Sakes!

Hunting Big Game Continuously & Overlapped From Mid-August through January/February with No Relaxation Time for the Deer Herd No Longer Happens!

Not Every TARD in this State Gets a Tag Every Year!

I Hate it as much as anybody,but the Inflation of Hunters outnumber the number of Harvest-able Deer we can Harvest each year!

It is Now a 50,000.00 Fine on the very first offense when you're caught Off-Roading Your F'N Wheelers & Side X Sides in Closed Areas/Primitive/Private Property without Permission!

On Your 2nd Offense 150,000.00 Fine,Confiscation of your Wheeler/Side X Side,Your Rig/Truck You Pulled it to the Mountain With & 1 Year in Jail and Your Hunting Rights are Revoked 50 States wide for Life!

Trespassers get the same Treatment as Listed above!

Poachers on the very first offense will be Fined 150,00.00,pay full replacement price of the Animal they Illegally took,All Hunting Gear/Vehicles Confiscated & Auctioned off with that Money going back to the DWR to Help Prosecute more Poachers & Fencing,Hunting Privileges Revoked forever in all 50 States with 2 Years of Free Meals down at the Local Jail Cell!

I'm Helping PUNK on this one:Baiting Deer/Big Game of any Kind Lands you a Free Stay with Bubba for 6 Months,You'll be Banned from all Hunting in all 50 States for Life along with a 25,000.00 Fine!

Wasting Deer/ Wildlife of any Kind will get You the Same Treatment as Listed above!

Deer Management Will be Based on Total Number of Deer & Not Buck to Doe Ratio's alone,Deer Counts will be Proven to the Best We can Count them,Not Guesstimated,Not Exaggerated And NOT Lied about Fake,Phony,F'N Elevated Numbers of Deer that Don't Exist!

When We Notice Deer Declining in Units below satisfactory numbers,there will be Tags/Permits Cut Immediately,not years down the road when it's too late!

There Are No More Antler-less/Doe Tags anywhere in the State,When Problems arise,The Does/Deer Will Be Captured & Moved!

Legal Archery Equipment will be Limited to Recurves Only!

Legal Muzzle-loaders will be Hawkins & Flintlocks only!

Legal Rifles will only Have Scopes with a Maximum Magnification of 4 Power!

Rangefinders are Not Legal & You Won't need them with the Down Grading of all Weaponry!

Trail Cams are Strictly Prohibited on all Public Ground & it is Legal for any Person to Tear them Down & Destroy them at any time!

Drones are legal for Target Practice year around!

Outfitters & Guides Can Not Surround/Herd or Camp on any Big Game Animals!

Camo Clothing of all Types is Prohibited so Dig Your Red F'N Shirts out! (Just for Niller!:D)

Spotting Scopes of any kind/Size are prohibited from using during any Hunt,with the shorter Range Weaponry you won't need them!

No Units will be Mismanaged so Poorly that they have to be Closed!

There Will Be 5 Units around the State in a few places known as
Opportunist Units/Hunts,When They've Pounded These Out they can NOT start BAWLING wanting to Pound the other Units out!

All Units excluding the 5 Opportunist Units will have Antler Restrictions of 4 Point or better to be a legal Buck!

Anybody Shooting Sub 4 Point Bucks in a 4 Point or Better Unit will pay a 35,000.00 Fine on the 1st Offense,Lose their Hunting Rights for Life in all 50 States!

Any Hunter Entering Great Grandpa or Great Grandma/Etc in to the Draws just to Hunt on their Permits will be Fined 40,000.00 & Banned for Life of Hunting Privileges in all 50 States!

Paraplanes/Shoot-Planes are Outlawed during any Hunting Seasons and if Caught you'll Pay 25,000.00 & Confiscation of your Shoot-Plane!

Several Roads & Trails will Be Flat Ass Closed,You Get Caught You'll Pay Dearly,Get Your Boots Oiled up!

SpotLighting will Be Outlawed 1 Month Before Bow Season through January 31st in all Big Game Units/Areas,Break this Law & it'll Cost You 30,000.00 & Loss of Hunting Rights in all 50 States for Life!

Each Year We will do More Deer Fencing along Highways,It'll take several years,We should have been doing this 50 years ago!

No More Cow Killer Hunts Running From August Through Jan-Feb,Yes People this Adds Pressure on the Deer Herd They do not Need!

Managing for Strictly Money is Over with!

Nobody can Outguess Weather/Drought & Management will be Tweaked accordingly by the Year!(NOT By saying:Oh We've got a 5 Year Plan Locked in & We can't do anything!)

Forest Service/BLM/DWR will Start Enforcing Existing Rules & Laws before Making More which have only Hurt the Honest Sportsmen & they Do NOT Enforce them!

Radio's Used to Help Kill Deer will Land You a 30,000.00 Fine & Confiscation of all other Hunting Equipment on you at time of the Arrest!

The Dedicated Hunter Program will Continue,It Will Be Mandatory all Projects will be 'MULE DEER' Related & You have to put in your Hours,No More PAY for your Hours Type of BS unless an Emergency comes up!

All LE Buck & Bull Tags will Be Once in a F'N Lifetime!

I Could go on & on But I Won't!

Niller wanted 1 or maybe 3 Things I'd Do If I Could Change the Management for the Better!

Listed above is a Few!

There are Many,Many More that could be added to Help a Suffering Deer Herd!

This Ought to be enough though To PISS The Pope Off & Most other TARDS of this State!

If You Think the Past Deer Management Plans have Helped anything you are WRONG!

If You Think this Last WB Meeting & Changes will Save the Deer Herd You are WRONG!

So I'm gonna Name My Plan HELL-RIGHT,HELL-F'N-RIGHT!

Blast Away!
 
You Mention Me needing a CHEAT SHEET?

Re-Read HELL-F'N-RIGHT Niller!





Vanilla said:
Bessy, it’s not just about bans. You can make regulation and management changes that are not bans.

Here’s the deal: you won’t post up any real ideas because you don’t have any. You’d rather just pizz and moan than actually solve the problem. Because if we solved the problem, what the heck else would you do if you couldn’t constantly pizz and moan?

Here are the three things I would do first off the bat:

1- All 530+ conservation and expo tags are returned to the state every year. I’d then turn around and do a super raffle for one OIL tag for each species and each LE species to bring the state direct revenue. This will immediately begin to help with point creep and over the next 5 years would increase the impact on point creep.

2- Said revenue would earmark specifically for more highway fencing/underpass/overpass work. That is the only thing I’d use the revenue, and we’d challenge true conservation organizations (not fake welfare recipients only) to match funds and help with the progress.

3- We’ll stop using age objective (elk) and buck/doe ratios (deer) to determine tag numbers. There has to be a better way. I can’t tell you exactly what that way would be, but I’ll be listening to the experts, not greed, when I decide what that better way is.

Bessy, I know these three things will not solve all our problems. But they are a start. Hawkeye has a pretty good list above. Go ahead, use it as a cheat sheet and give us your answers. We know you have problems.
Click to expand...
 
HELL-F'N-RIGHT is in No Particular Order of Rank!

Most Hunters Would Weep!

You Asked For at Least 3 Changes!

I Listed Some of the Changes Needed in HELL-RIGHT!

There Are Way More than what I Listed!
 
Bessy-

You went from supporting no changes to wanting to change everything. Does it really have to be all or nothing? Sit down, break out a cold Mountain Dew, and pick your top 3 changes. If you don’t prioritize then you will never do anything. Turn your “Hell Right” list into “Bobcat’s 3 Best Ideas.” We are all waiting.

Hawkeye
 
Hey Hawkeye!

You're Smart Enough to know that JUST 3 Changes / Ideas Will NOT Fix the BIG Problem!

I Didn't go from No Change to Change Everything!

HELL-RIGHT was Posted in 2019! (Did You Really Not See it?)

And Yes You've Heard Me Pizzing & Moaninig For Decades if You've Been Here that Long?

But Did Anything CHANGE?

DAMN Sure Did!

The Quality of Hunting Has Continued to get Poorer & Poorer Forever!

I Wish You & Niller the Best with Making JUST 3 Changes To Fix a Problem that En-tales 50+ Issues!

It Took alot of People alot more Years Than it Should Have To Finally See the Light!

To Try & Fix a Total FIASCO with 3 Ideas of Change is NOT Gonna Fix the Big Picture!

I'm Willing To Wager Some Money With Both You & Niller that You Can't Fix the Problem Pecking away with only 3 Changes at a time within the Next 5 Years!

And if You Two do Get it All Fixed in 5 Years & I Lose the Bet it'll Be the Best Money I Ever Spent!











Hawkeye said:
Bessy-

You went from supporting no changes to wanting to change everything. Does it really have to be all or nothing? Sit down, break out a cold Mountain Dew, and pick your top 3 changes. If you don’t prioritize then you will never do anything. Turn your “Hell Right” list into “Bobcat’s 3 Best Ideas.” We are all waiting.

Hawkeye
Click to expand...
 
Just Think Niller & Hawkeye!

You Two Can Bust Your Asses for 3 Changes!

You Can Try & Get the WB To Pass it!

You can Get Spokesmen from the SFW & RMEF to Walk up & Voice Their Opinions on rather They Approve it or Not at the WB Meetings!

Your JUST 3 Changes will Be Locked in for 5 Years like the WB & DWR does on all changes!

And it Will Fix ABSOLUTELY-F'N-NOTHING!

But I Give You Boys Credit For Trying!

This 'LOCK A PLAN IN for 5 Years' is More Proof Of PISS POOR Management!
 
If the DWR needs money (and we all know they hunger and thirst for it) then like Bess mentioned, impose steep fines for all violators of the current laws and regulations.

You need to make an offender bleed in the same way they made the honest sportsman bleed when the offender went off road in a closed area or any other illegal activity.

(policing ethics is impossible without helping folks with criminal intentions to discover their conscience)

Steep fines and confiscating equipment used to break the law is going to hurt the violator much more than our current wrist slapping process!

A reward system beyond the turn in a poacher program would provide more incentive to encourage others to police the hills they enjoy spending time in.

Limiting technology is critical as well.

Limiting tag numbers is another critical step toward healing our quality and opportunity.

There are some great ideas floating around on this site! Let’s harness this energy and take it to those who can make a difference!

If something doesn’t happen soon, you’re going to see vigilante groups popping up in the hills more and more, taking matters into their own hands! These groups will be made up of once law abiding citizens supporting their agendas!

And if one of these groups misjudges your character, you just might get caught in the middle of a bad situation far from any help!
 
Look at yall going ghetto up in here again.

Things are getting tough and everybody is turning into a bunch of cannibals. Ban this. Force that. "Make them blead"??????

Can none of you think beyond screwing over your neighbor when things get hard?

I agree things aren't on the right track. I was telling yall that almost a decade before "Hell right" was ever typed up. Choking the life out of hunting and your liberties isn't going to fix anything either.


Tell me when you are ready to listen. Until then you will keep wallowing in your own mud and hating it.
 
I like that tristate thinks punishing law breakers and poachers is “screwing over your neighbor.”

In the last week he has told us this and also that he doesn’t need consent for anything. Quality character, this tristate. A model citizen! Please tell us more.

Let me guess, bring back slavery?
 
Vanilla said:
I like that tristate thinks punishing law breakers and poachers is “screwing over your neighbor.”

In the last week he has told us this and also that he doesn’t need consent for anything. Quality character, this tristate. A model citizen! Please tell us more.

Let me guess, bring back slavery?
Click to expand...
One more thing I never said.

Go start lies somewhere else little lady.
 
GoHigher said:
Less rifle tags and more archery and muzzy tags. Same number of tags, so DWR still gets its money with lower success ratio. Herds have a chance to recover. Leave technology alone. Problem solved, no?
Click to expand...
With 100 yard bows and 400 yard muzzle loaders, and scopes allowed in Utah, shifting the tags isn't going to reduce the number of deer killed.

The bucks are still going to get killed. Maybe a few less, but not much.

Reducing buck tags isn't going to help the deer herd health. It just means fewer people hunting.

Urban development, water, feed, predators and more are going to have a much greater impact on deer herds in the west than adjusting a few buck tags.
 
Public land- undivided interest and rights owned by the Public (all of us)

private Land- exclusively interests and rights owned by a private owner

it’s simple- if I own a property I should be able to put up any kind of camera I desire. However, people seem to not understand that public ground is not exclusively owned.....putting up cameras on public ground should be looked at the same as putting up a game cam in a public courtroom.
 
T264 said:
Public land- undivided interest and rights owned by the Public (all of us)

private Land- exclusively interests and rights owned by a private owner

it’s simple- if I own a property I should be able to put up any kind of camera I desire. However, people seem to not understand that public ground is not exclusively owned.....putting up cameras on public ground should be looked at the same as putting up a game cam in a public courtroom.
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of private property rights. It's a matter of fair chase. You're not allowed to hunt at night with a spotlight on private property because it violates the rules of fair chase. It's the same argument for banning baiting and trail cameras on private property.
 
Tristate said:
Go start lies somewhere else little lady.
Click to expand...

You call me that like being a woman is some kind of insult. Not shocking since you think you don’t need consent to fulfill your desires that you’d look down on women.

Call me a lady. I take that as a compliment!
 
SureShot said:
It's not a matter of private property rights. It's a matter of fair chase. You're not allowed to hunt at night with a spotlight on private property because it violates the rules of fair chase. It's the same argument for banning baiting and trail cameras on private property.
Click to expand...
The bill never tried to ban cameras on private property.

And trail cameras aren't even part of the bill anymore.
 
The bill changed by directing the wildlife board to implement regulations rather than dictating the details in the bill, which is different than dropping it altogether.

However, the debate on trail cams applies to both public and private property. If you frame it as a public-lands only issue, you're missing the point of why it's needed. That's all I'm pointing out.

When the wildlife board addresses this, they need to do so under the umbrella of fair chase and apply whatever regulations they come up with to both public and private property. In doing so, they probably need to specify that it is illegal to use trail cameras for locating wildlife (and spell out that cameras positioned on a cabin on private property or in a campsite on public property to monitor their safety are still legal).
 
Thanks SS!

I Suspect The DWR/WB Will TWEAK it and make it Legal for Cams to be Used during certain Time Frames & make them Illegal to use during other Time Frames!

Eventually making You Buy a 'TRAIL-CAM LICENSE/PERMT"!

What About The Guy/Guys that'll Work the Laws/System To Their Advantage?

Let's Say:

Put a Tent/Blind up near a Weep & Claim it's a Temporary Domain & They've Set Cams Up to Protect their Domain?

Again!

I Think We'll Be Looking at More Laws that Can't & Won't Be Enforced Unless We Hire Hawkbill Full Time To Pack Plastic Trash out of the Utah Woods & Mountains!
 
elkassassin said:
Hey Niller!

They Told Me I Couldn't Shoot A Drone Hovering over My Property!
Click to expand...

Cool. What does that have to do with a property owner putting up a camera on their own property?

And they probably just knew how terrible of a shot you were, Bessy. They wanted to preserve public safety as much as possible.
 
Vanilla said:
There is zero chance you could tell property owners they can’t put a camera on their private property.

Not happening.
Click to expand...
I believe there is if it's for the purpose of locating wildlife for hunting purposes. Just like they can tell you you can't spotlight deer or hunt out of season or hunt over bait if they choose to.
 
They can make hunting regulations, but they can’t make camera regulations on private property. This is 100% unenforceable.

This will be a total non-starter at either the Wildlife Board or the legislature. It won’t happen. I’ve got a better chance of winning the lottery, and I don’t even buy lottery tickets.
 
GEEZUS!

They Don't Want You Using Trail-Cams on Your Private Property!

The Don't Want You Shooting Drones Down that are Hovering Your Property!

And You Can't See the F'N Similarities?

HINT:

They Are Telling You What You Can & Can't Do On Your Property!




Vanilla said:
Cool. What does that have to do with a property owner putting up a camera on their own property?

And they probably just knew how terrible of a shot you were, Bessy. They wanted to preserve public safety as much as possible.
Click to expand...
 
If the cameras are used for hunting, they certainly can...and should. If it violates the rules of fair chase, it violates the rules of fair chase on both public and private property.
 
You can spotlight on private property all night long if want too as long as you do not harass, pursue or harvest wildlife. The DWR is not telling a private land owner he can not use a spotlight they are telling a private land owner you can not kill wildlife using a spotlight. That is a big difference than a camera set up on a private land owners water hole that is doing no harm to any wildlife.
Come on guys do you want the government coming and telling you can not have a cement basketball court in your back yard because it will give your kid a unfair advantage over the other kids that can not afford or have big enough yards to have a private basketball court.
I can promise you if I had private property on the mountain and the government told me I could not have a trail camera on my private spring I would say " prove I am placing this camera on my private property solely on the intent to capture images of wildlife".
The DWR has ownership of wildlife they do not have ownership of my private property.
I guess you all are saying to Hell with the Constitution and the rights it gives property owners.
 
When I said spotlight, I meant spotlight and kill. You can spotlight on public without killing and it’s also perfectly legal. My point is fair chase applies to both public and private. If it’s legal, or illegal, in one place, it should be in both. If using cameras to locate wildlife for the purpose of hunting violates the principles of fair chase, it should be illegal on both public and private and it has nothing to do with private property rights.

And, by the way, what about all of the other laws that apply to private property? The government makes rules that determine whether you can build a house on your private property, how many and what type of animals you can have there, how late you can play loud music, whether you can shoot a gun there, what types of business (if any) you are allowed to operate, and the list goes on and on and on. Do you think all of those regulations violate the Constitution as well? If you do, you don’t understand the Constitution.
 
SureShot said:
When I said spotlight, I meant spotlight and kill. You can spotlight on public without killing and it’s also perfectly legal. My point is fair chase applies to both public and private. If it’s legal, or illegal, in one place, it should be in both. If using cameras to locate wildlife for the purpose of hunting violates the principles of fair chase, it should be illegal on both public and private and it has nothing to do with private property rights.

And, by the way, what about all of the other laws that apply to private property? The government makes rules that determine whether you can build a house on your private property, how many and what type of animals you can have there, how late you can play loud music, whether you can shoot a gun there, what types of business (if any) you are allowed to operate, and the list goes on and on and on. Do you think all of those regulations violate the Constitution as well? If you do, you don’t understand the Constitution.
Click to expand...
Really you use possibly dangerous or nuisance activities as your examples.
The government will regulates private property rights when what you do on your private property might be harmful or a infringe to the general public and/or other private property owners.
I am not saying the government hasn't made laws against private property owners that go against the Constitution private property rights, I am saying if what the private property owner is doing is not potential hurting or infringing on other citizens or private property I do not and never will support any act that hurts private property rights.
I do not believe trail cameras infringe on others rights.
 
Elkassassin
The government is not telling you what you can do on your private property it is telling you, you can not destroy someone else's private property that is in the public air space.
You do not own the air above your private property.
 
I also used other hunting laws as examples. Let me say it again. The wild animals on your private property are not owned by you and are subject to laws that determine if and when and how you can kill them. If it is determined that using cameras (or bait or spotlights, etc.) for the purpose of hunting violates the principles of fair chase, then the government can and should prohibit their use.
 
Since when has “fair chase” even been defined, let alone legislated?

This seems like such an odd crusade.

SureShot, they will not extend this to private property. No possible way. It’s not happening.

Bessy will give us his top 3 before that ever even becomes an official discussion item, let alone pass. And we all know he isn’t giving his top 3! Never.
 
I personally do not have a strong opinion either way on the trail camera issue. Trail cameras are not good for mature Muleys but just the same I have heart burn over taking away rights from many great outdoor enthusiasts.
But as for private property rights I can not get behind taking away rights from private property owners.
Again I will point out cameras do not posse any threats to wildlife. Yes the state of Utah owns the wildlife in the jurisdiction of Utah but because of that reason private land owners need to only give 72 hours of written notice to remove the state wildlife off of there property. We do not want to see the outcome of that scenario.
 
Notdonhunting,

As a private property owner of 25 acres within city limits, do you believe you have the right to shoot and kill a 200” buck that your trail camera found on your property, with archery equipment, from a tree stand in your apple tree, while that buck eats apples that have fallen from that tree on July 20th, one month prior to the archery opener in your state?

If so, where did your right to kill that buck come from?
if not, why not?

Rimrock
 
notdonhunting said:
Elkassassin
The government is not telling you what you can do on your private property it is telling you, you can not destroy someone else's private property that is in the public air space.
You do not own the air above your private property.
Click to expand...
This needs to be addresed in the age of drones. They should not be allowed to fly by your bedroom window. And besides, a drone is nothing more than a vehicle for a camera. People don’t fly them because they get off on the joystick.
 
Rimrock said:
Notdonhunting,

As a private property owner of 25 acres within city limits, do you believe you have the right to shoot and kill a 200” buck that your trail camera found on your property, with archery equipment, from a tree stand in your apple tree, while that buck eats apples that have fallen from that tree on July 20th, one month prior to the archery opener in your state?

If so, where did your right to kill that buck come from?
if not, why not?

Rimrock
Click to expand...
If it were during the season and with a proper license, absolutely.
 
Hey Niller?

I've Told You I Don't Know How Many Times That You Can't Fix it with JUST 3 Changes!

It Would Take More Change than anybody will admit to or be willing to Deal With!

You Think You Can Fix it with Just 3 Changes,WRONG!

This Sshhiittt Cracks Me Up!

49 Years Worth of BS!

And All of a Sudden You Think 3 Changes will Fix it!

I'm Not against Change but:

Several Years ago We went to 30+ Units for Better Deer Management!

Well!

How'd That Work out?

Nobody But Me Even Mentions it!

They Made a Season out of Shed Hunting!

Who'd that Hurt?

With Very Little Enforcement!

Amazing How QUICK a Few Shed Hunters Can Pack a Full Back-Pack Full of Sheds out Just 30 Minutes in to Opening Morning every year isn't it?

There's Many more Reasons Why The Deer Herd is Suffering Niller that aren't even on HELL-RIGHT!

Picking Just 3 is Like PISSING in the WIND!

Stick around!

It'll even Get Worse!
 
Bluehair,

You answered a different question than the ones I asked. Would you like to take another swing at it?

Rimrock
 
Rimrock said:
Notdonhunting,

As a private property owner of 25 acres within city limits, do you believe you have the right to shoot and kill a 200” buck that your trail camera found on your property, with archery equipment, from a tree stand in your apple tree, while that buck eats apples that have fallen from that tree on July 20th, one month prior to the archery opener in your state?

If so, where did your right to kill that buck come from?
if not, why not?

Rimrock
Click to expand...
The example that you give, no the private land owner would not be legal to harvest the buck.
I have clearly stated that the State owns the buck so they can tell you when you can harvest the buck. In the state of Utah if the private land owner gives 72 hour notice to have that buck removed from the private land to the DWR and they do not remove that buck, then yes the owner of the property could kill that buck according to the laws of the city jurisdiction of type of weapon that is allowed to be fired in their city limits.
Rimrock
My question to you. Do you believe it should be illegal for the private land owner to be allowed to take pictures of that buck?
 
"When We Notice Deer Declining in Units below satisfactory numbers,there will be Tags/Permits Cut Immediately,not years down the road when it's too late!"

That is a fact


How about shutting down units, 1yr or 2yrs then reopen them with another unit being closed. I 'm sure it would boost the numbers up in the amount of animals in those units.
So maybe you don't get to hunt a year and there, But it a sure way to build the herds back up.
I know it wouldn't sit well with some, by if it keeps going this way now it going to be more then a year or two that you wouldn't be able to go on a armed camping trip.
 
Notdonhunting,

Making the argument that government should not be able to regulate how hunting happens on private land, because it takes away property owner rights doesn't hold up against further scrutiny.

Likewise, arguing that government does, in fact, have the right to regulate other matters related to hunting, but only when those rules may infringe upon the rights of or be harmful to others also falls short.

The hypothetical scenario I shared illustrates both points.

Setting season hunting dates on public and private property is a clear example of government regulation today. Why can they do this? Because the regulation promotes fair chase.

Also, permitting the use of archery equipment within city limits, while outlawing the discharge of long range rifles, is an example of government regulation intended to protect others. It is also an example of a regulation that promotes fair chase.

Which leads to your question:

Yes, I believe it should be legal for a private property owner to use a trail camera to take a picture of a deer on his property. I also believe that the government is responsible for setting the rules and parameters for hunting that deer on the same property. These hunting rules should always be driven by fair chase... The rules should permit certain actions (hunting within season dates, hunting with legal weapons, hunting during daylight hours) while also prohibiting other actions (baiting, using trail cameras during hunting seasons, hunting outside season dates, using spotlights, using illegal weapons).

That said, I also wish we had less government involvement in our lives, but that's a discussion for another day...

Rimrock
 
Bluehair,

You make my point. Poaching is illegal. Why? Because the government made it illegal by passing regulations prohibiting it... on public and private property. Why did they do this? To promote fair chase. The same principle applies to other methods of take ... hence the debate about baiting and using trail cameras during hunting season.

Rimrock
 

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