Mule deer tag decrease!!!

bucks

bucks

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Utah DWR is decreasing general deer season tags this year but a couple of of the units that needs the tags cut drastically is Wasatch mountains west and east and they are not effected,If they really want to help the deer herds they need to wake up and decrease all of the unit tag numbers.
 
Mike said:
Utah DWR is decreasing general deer season tags this year but a couple of of the units that needs the tags cut drastically is Wasatch mountains west and east and they are not effected,If they really want to help the deer herds they need to wake up and decrease all of the unit tag numbers.
Click to expand...
You’re right
 
Mike said:
Utah DWR is decreasing general deer season tags this year but a couple of of the units that needs the tags cut drastically is Wasatch mountains west and east and they are not effected,If they really want to help the deer herds they need to wake up and decrease all of the unit tag numbers.
Click to expand...
Have the Utah 2021 quotas been set already? Where are you getting that information? Thanks
 
There is a video on the DWR website giving all of the details as to which units they cut tags in and which units they added tags to and most of the units had no change. The Changes or decreases that they are making are not even a drop in the bucket when you look at the big picture. To say I am disappointed with the steps they are taking to improve the Deer herd is an understatement. Everyone is making a big deal out of the news that they(DWR) puts outs saying they are decreasing tags, like its a giant thing. But if you look at it the changes are Microscopic.
 
I got the info from Go hunt 2019 Wasatch mountains east deer tag numbers were 4250,2020 tags were 4250, and 2021tags are still at 4250.in 2019 Wasatch mountains west the numbers were 8100,2020 tag numbers were 8100,and the numbers set for 2021 are still 8100,you can go to you tube and watch the video MuleyKiller has mentioned and see the numbers they have set.
 
The thing is, decreasing buck tags will only save bucks. What we need is something to save does and fawns. We cant grow a deer herd with more bucks. They dont give birth to fawns. We need to find ways to help the does and fawns survive. Better range conditions, winter and summer. Something to prevent deer getting hit on roads by the 1000's.

We can eliminate the deer hunt for 3 years. What will that do? Have bigger bucks for the next year or 2, maybe 3. Then all the top ends bucks will be gone, and we will be back to right now. Without more does and fawn survival, we dont have CRAP!!!!

Cutting tags and point restrictions will only save bucks. Ask any biologist what you need to grow that deer herd and I bet they will say more does not bucks!

Dont get me wrong, I want bigger and better bucks. I want to hunt the Henries in my backyard in Orem. I want to hunt the Paunsagaunt here IN Orem Utah every year and see 200" bucks. But without the does and Fawns, we wont have a deer herd!!!
 
Robiland said:
The thing is, decreasing buck tags will only save bucks. What we need is something to save does and fawns. We cant grow a deer herd with more bucks. They dont give birth to fawns. We need to find ways to help the does and fawns survive. Better range conditions, winter and summer. Something to prevent deer getting hit on roads by the 1000's.

We can eliminate the deer hunt for 3 years. What will that do? Have bigger bucks for the next year or 2, maybe 3. Then all the top ends bucks will be gone, and we will be back to right now. Without more does and fawn survival, we dont have CRAP!!!!

Cutting tags and point restrictions will only save bucks. Ask any biologist what you need to grow that deer herd and I bet they will say more does not bucks!

Dont get me wrong, I want bigger and better bucks. I want to hunt the Henries in my backyard in Orem. I want to hunt the Paunsagaunt here IN Orem Utah every year and see 200" bucks. But without the does and Fawns, we wont have a deer herd!!!
Click to expand...
100% correct.
 
I agree with Robiland 1,000%% all the threads you read are we need to cut tags to make the deer herd better. When in reality cutting buck tags may make for better hunting, but not increase the deer herd. You want to make deer hunting better increase the does by 5,000 animals in a unit and the hunting will be much better. Just like the rule to stop baiting. Yes, less big bucks will be killed and will help that, but not help the deer herd. In fact if it is the right kind of baiting, it may make the does healthier to better support the fawn survival rate. I am all for the tag cuts, and think it is a good idea, but I do not think they will have any impact on the deer herd. We need to focus on the animals having the babies!!
 
I agree whole heartedly with Robiland that to truly grow our deer herds we need more does and fawns. So how do we accomplish that? Hasn’t the DWR and SFW been working on that for the last 3 decades? Isn’t that why we give up hundreds of premium tags sold for millions of “conservation dollars?” What is the solution to actually increasing the survival rates for does and fawns?

Hawkeye
 
Hawkeye said:
I agree whole heartedly with Robiland that to truly grow our deer herds we need more does and fawns. So how do we accomplish that? Hasn’t the DWR and SFW been working on that for the last 3 decades? Isn’t that why we give up hundreds of premium tags sold for millions of “conservation dollars?” What is the solution to actually increasing the survival rates for does and fawns?

Hawkeye
Click to expand...
My point in that other thread was that while it may not appear that measures taken in the past have helped because we haven’t seen an increase in deer numbers does not mean the measures have been ineffective. Maybe we’d have even fewer deer and less opportunity had we not had the conservation dollars. I don’t know??? Just saying....

I don’t think with mule deer we can gauge success on increasing numbers alone, but maybe success will be based on slowing the decline.
I don’t think we can assume that significant mule deer number increases are even possible anymore.

But I do agree that efforts to try and increase herd size need to continue, but success might be gauged on slowing a population decline rather than reversing it. ???

It’s possible that if deer hunters want more opportunity and older age (quality) bucks, they’ll need to decrease success rates, as increasing deer numbers to address those problems may not even be possible.

I personally think the number one priority needs to be decreasing success rates.
 
Yes decreasing success rates and lowering buck tag quotas should result in more older age bucks making it through the hunting season.
To increase the overall deer herd numbers first of all we need to get some moisture in the form of rain and snow. This drought is really hurting the mule deer.
Predator control, range improvements, and technology issues also need to be addressed.
 
Robiland said:
The thing is, decreasing buck tags will only save bucks. What we need is something to save does and fawns. We cant grow a deer herd with more bucks. They dont give birth to fawns. We need to find ways to help the does and fawns survive. Better range conditions, winter and summer. Something to prevent deer getting hit on roads by the 1000's.

We can eliminate the deer hunt for 3 years. What will that do? Have bigger bucks for the next year or 2, maybe 3. Then all the top ends bucks will be gone, and we will be back to right now. Without more does and fawn survival, we dont have CRAP!!!!

Cutting tags and point restrictions will only save bucks. Ask any biologist what you need to grow that deer herd and I bet they will say more does not bucks!

Dont get me wrong, I want bigger and better bucks. I want to hunt the Henries in my backyard in Orem. I want to hunt the Paunsagaunt here IN Orem Utah every year and see 200" bucks. But without the does and Fawns, we wont have a deer herd!!!
Click to expand...
I live in Orem. Have hunted the Wasatch all my life and I am 60.

There are plenty of good bucks up there. Here is the thing, they have increased the number of trails greatly and dumbed the harder ones down. This has resulted in far more people.

This has chased the bigger deer into more marginal habitat, there are simply too many people, not hunters just people.

For me to find the deer, and I chase good bucks most years, I have to avoid any and all trails, at all costs. You have to find the typically very rough terrain where people don't go. At all...ever. There you will find your bucks.

I chased 2 very nice bucks last year, 1 huge typical and one crazy big non-typical. The access was brutal enough that I couldn't hike in and out everyday, had to go every couple of days. I saw the bucks most days. No I didn't kill one last year, but as long as there are that caliber of bucks to chase with no people, it is all good with me.

It's the people and the bikes that need to go. Then the deer would be fine. IMHO. You have to work harder now than at any time in the past, not because of a lack of deer, but because...too damn many people. Look for higher, farther, steeper and just plain darn more difficult to access terrain. The deer have moved from where they have traditionally been, but they are there still.
 
Robiland said:
The thing is, decreasing buck tags will only save bucks. What we need is something to save does and fawns. We cant grow a deer herd with more bucks. They dont give birth to fawns. We need to find ways to help the does and fawns survive. Better range conditions, winter and summer. Something to prevent deer getting hit on roads by the 1000's.

We can eliminate the deer hunt for 3 years. What will that do? Have bigger bucks for the next year or 2, maybe 3. Then all the top ends bucks will be gone, and we will be back to right now. Without more does and fawn survival, we dont have CRAP!!!!

Cutting tags and point restrictions will only save bucks. Ask any biologist what you need to grow that deer herd and I bet they will say more does not bucks!

Dont get me wrong, I want bigger and better bucks. I want to hunt the Henries in my backyard in Orem. I want to hunt the Paunsagaunt here IN Orem Utah every year and see 200" bucks. But without the does and Fawns, we wont have a deer herd!!!
Click to expand...
Without enough bucks,to breed all the,does,
You can't grow deer herds
2) killing bucks only and not allowing doe harvest makes,for a,lopsided buck/doe ratio
Theefore actually hurting herd health balance &growth
The more the herd grows the more HABITAT it takes, the leading cause of mule,deer decline is,loss of habitat
 
Ultimag said:
Without enough bucks,to breed all the,does,
You can't grow deer herds
2) killing bucks only and not allowing doe harvest makes,for a,lopsided buck/doe ratio
Theefore actually hurting herd health balance &growth
The more the herd grows the more HABITAT it takes, the leading cause of mule,deer decline is,loss of habitat
Click to expand...
It takes a minimum of 5 bucks to breed 100 does. Theres not an area/unit/zone in the United States with a 5:100 buck:doe ratio. You raise and lower buck:doe ratios by killing or not killing bucks... not killing does. The ONLY reason to harvest doe's is if the deer herd is over range carrying capacity. If there is a doe hunt anywhere, THAT is the only reason. Has zero to do with bucks. Google Mule Deer Working Group and read the results of their studies.
 
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Desertmuleyguide said:
It takes a minimum of 5 bucks to breed 100 does. Theres not an area/unit/zone in the United States with a 5:100 buck:doe ratio. You raise and lower buck:doe ratios by killing or not killing bucks... not killing does. The ONLY reason to harvest doe's is if the deer herd is over range carrying capacity. If there is a doe hunt anywhere, THAT is the only reason. Has zero to do with bucks. Google Mule Deer Working Group and read the results of their studies.
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I'm not sure if we can take you serious with a username like desertmuleyguide and you have a coues buck as your profile pic. Just sayin' ;)
 
Slightlysober said:
I'm not sure if we can take you serious with a username like desertmuleyguide and you have a coues buck as your profile pic. Just sayin' ;)
Click to expand...
Here is this better? Me being a "desertmuleyguide"... lol

20191116_213525.jpg
 
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Hawkeye said:
I agree whole heartedly with Robiland that to truly grow our deer herds we need more does and fawns. So how do we accomplish that? Hasn’t the DWR and SFW been working on that for the last 3 decades? Isn’t that why we give up hundreds of premium tags sold for millions of “conservation dollars?” What is the solution to actually increasing the survival rates for does and fawns?

Hawkeye
Click to expand...
don't shoot them??
 
If you have watched the wildlife board meeting you will see why we can’t grow deer there is no more second guessing there is a tons of data backing it up.

In my opinion Now is not the time to grow more deer maybe in some units can handle it but a lot of the other units I think it would be devastating to our deer.

we really need to pull out of a drought and get the nutrients back in our feed
We also need to make sure we keep are predators in check.

The western states are all going threw the same thing.
 
Somebody just barely starting to Listen maybe just a little bit?

(((BUCK TO DOE RATIO MANAGEMENT!)))

'Ya!'

'We've Got 10 Does Left & 2 Bucks!'

'That Means All is Good!'

The Very Worst Way You Could Manage any F'N Thing!

You've Heard Me Screaming for Years We Need Numbers of Deer!

Not the Buck to Doe Ratio BS Management We've had forever!

Yes the Drought has Hurt!

But it Ain't the only F'N Problem!

And Neither is Scopes on SmokePoles the Only F'N Problem!

WAKE THE HELL UP!

Before it's Too GAWD-DAMNED Late!
 
elkassassin said:
Somebody just barely starting to Listen maybe just a little bit?

(((BUCK TO DOE RATIO MANAGEMENT!)))

'Ya!'

'We've Got 10 Does Left & 2 Bucks!'

'That Means All is Good!'

The Very Worst Way You Could Manage any F'N Thing!

You've Heard Me Screaming for Years We Need Numbers of Deer!

Not the Buck to Doe Ratio BS Management We've had forever!

Yes the Drought has Hurt!

But it Ain't the only F'N Problem!

And Neither is Scopes on SmokePoles the Only F'N Problem!

WAKE THE HELL UP!

Before it's Too GAWD-DAMNED Late!
Click to expand...
So when we get some water and get a few deer started they will just mow down every two point around. But nobody will want a point restriction. Just removal of scopes from muzzles lol
 
FRIENDS DONT LET FRIENDS SHOOT DOES!

DOE HUNTERS ARE ANTI HUNTERS!

BUCK IT OR F*** IT
 
elkassassin said:
Somebody just barely starting to Listen maybe just a little bit?

(((BUCK TO DOE RATIO MANAGEMENT!)))

'Ya!'

'We've Got 10 Does Left & 2 Bucks!'

'That Means All is Good!'

The Very Worst Way You Could Manage any F'N Thing!

You've Heard Me Screaming for Years We Need Numbers of Deer!

Not the Buck to Doe Ratio BS Management We've had forever!

Yes the Drought has Hurt!

But it Ain't the only F'N Problem!

And Neither is Scopes on SmokePoles the Only F'N Problem!

WAKE THE HELL UP!

Before it's Too GAWD-DAMNED Late!
Click to expand...
Agree wholeheartedly. But the one absolute requirement to growing the herds is habitat, without out it we have no chance of growing the herds.

IMHO the most critical parts of habitat are two things, winter range and fawning/calving grounds. We need to somehow stop the development happening on our winter ranges, and stop the fragmenting of them.

We also need to keep folks off the winter range in the winter, and out of the fawning grounds during fawning season. People our pushing the deer far too much year round...not even hunters just people.
 
Target practice on predators would go a long way too fellas. I saw more coyotes than deer on my muzzy hunt in southern NM this year.

I went back a week later and managed to knock quite a few coyotes down. There were so many they readily came into my calls.
 

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