Wyoming Antler point restrictions 4 point (APR)

H

highfastflyer

Very Active Member
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Wyoming Game Commission has approved one of the largest 4 point APR across most of Southern Wyoming stretching from area 82 in Baggs going west and all throughout Region K and up in not the Southern end of the Wyoming Range. This list may not be all of them but 82, 100, 131, 132, 134, 168 are 4 point APR and 135 continues with a 3 point APR. I understand they are trying to improve the age class and buck/doe ratios in some of the units. Some concerns are.
1. This places a much bigger pressure on mature bucks.
2. Some hunters may now move to hunt already stressed deer herds for “meat” bucks in areas nearby like the Wyoming Range.
3. Utah and some other states discontinued the practice due to large 2 point bucks who are genetically antler configuration inferior which do all the breeding and producing long lasting big 2 points remaining as the dominant breeding bucks.
Texas has had good success with a 20 inch antler spread minimum restriction. This might be a better tool to help keep out the big 2 points from doing much of the breeding. Any other opinions? https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/e...dends-for-texas-mule-deer-hunters/ar-BB174eqL
 
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Interesting but most of that land in Texas is private, lots of landowners are under MLD programs and may or may not follow those spread guidelines.
Also can't really compare range and forage to western states and Texas. They grow lots of crops in the panhandle region and east where mule deer are located. West Texas would be a better comparison to western states mule deer.
Maybe one of the outfitters there will chime in.
 
wytex said:
Interesting but most of that land in Texas is private, lots of landowners are under MLD programs and may or may not follow those spread guidelines.
Also can't really compare range and forage to western states and Texas. They grow lots of crops in the panhandle region and east where mule deer are located. West Texas would be a better comparison to western states mule deer.
Maybe one of the outfitters there will chime in.
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Yes I agree with all your points of completely different public vs. private and range conditions but their logic seems rational.
“
“Why is TPWD using an outside spread instead of other antler characteristics such as points or inside spread?
Using antler points (i.e., 4-points on one antler) as a restriction has been unsuccessful in significantly improving buck age structure because there is a poor relationship between age and number of points, and many young mule deer bucks would meet a restriction based on minimum number of points. Data collected from mule deer and white-tailed deer indicate that the average antler spread increases as bucks mature.” https://tpwd.texas.gov/huntwild/wild/game_management/muledeer/faqs.phtml
 
Antler point restrictions work. Plain and simple. But they should be used as a temporary measure. People who sure Utah as an example of why not to implement an antler point restriction need to understand that Utah hasn’t ever grown a 4 point to begin with!! Lol. The idea behind APR is to increase the amount of bucks making it through the hunt. The same objective could be realized through tag cuts. Personally I’d rather see an APR on a unit for a year or two than see tags cut.
 
I think it’s good. I’ve talked to one of the southern region wardens about the cyclical 4pt restriction and they think it helps keep things in balance. I believe it.

plus in Wyoming you can shoot a 3pt that has 1in eye guards under the 4pt rules. So a big old 3pt can still be “taken out” of the gene pool. Never seen a monster 2pt in the areas that I hunt in Wyoming but have seen some big 3s that would get the nod from me in the right circumstances.
 
travishunter3006 said:
Antler point restrictions work. Plain and simple. But they should be used as a temporary measure. People who sure Utah as an example of why not to implement an antler point restriction need to understand that Utah hasn’t ever grown a 4 point to begin with!! Lol. The idea behind APR is to increase the amount of bucks making it through the hunt. The same objective could be realized through tag cuts. Personally I’d rather see an APR on a unit for a year or two than see tags cut.
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“Antler Point restrictions work”. Not according to much of the Biological research from Colorado, Utah and now Texas. They no longer use it as it creates too many of these who remain and do all the breeding leaving lasting negative inferior genetics.

”Using antler points (i.e., 4-points on one antler) as a restriction has been unsuccessful in significantly improving buck age structure because there is a poor relationship between age and number of points, and many young mule deer bucks would meet a restriction based on minimum number of points. Data collected from mule deer and white-tailed deer indicate that the average antler spread increases as bucks mature.”
AA16EF90-2B66-44F5-8F14-DE8BF3884A46.jpeg
 
highfastflyer said:
“Antler Point restrictions work”. Not according to much of the Biological research from Colorado, Utah and now Texas. They no longer use it as it creates too many of these who remain and do all the breeding leaving lasting negative inferior genetics.

”Using antler points (i.e., 4-points on one antler) as a restriction has been unsuccessful in significantly improving buck age structure because there is a poor relationship between age and number of points, and many young mule deer bucks would meet a restriction based on minimum number of points. Data collected from mule deer and white-tailed deer indicate that the average antler spread increases as bucks mature.”View attachment 39394
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Nice buck
 
If a big 2 point breeds then what are the chances it will produce a big 2 point? Doesnt a doe have a genetic code it will pass on? Doesnt the big 2 point have a chance of passing on a genetic code that doesnt pass on a big 2 point frame?
When my grandpa use to have all his farm land and i would religiously watch these deer i not once did i see a replica deer set of antlers be produced. Maybe 3-4 deer out of 30 had a somewhat close antler configuration.
 
nfh said:
If a big 2 point breeds then what are the chances it will produce a big 2 point? Doesnt a doe have a genetic code it will pass on? Doesnt the big 2 point have a chance of passing on a genetic code that doesnt pass on a big 2 point frame?
When my grandpa use to have all his farm land and i would religiously watch these deer i not once did i see a replica deer set of antlers be produced. Maybe 3-4 deer out of 30 had a somewhat close antler configuration.
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It’s not just the genetics, there are other good reasons they don’t work and place an even larger hunting pressure on more mature deer. The bucks pass on 50% of the alleles. In bad winters many of those bucks will die off anyways and placed an even bigger long term and lasting negative effect on Winter Range grazing and browse sites. Many states now have stopped using them or use antler width restrictions instead of APR. https://www.deeranddeerhunting.com/...antler-point-restrictions-dangerous-precedent
 
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nfh said:
If a big 2 point breeds then what are the chances it will produce a big 2 point? Doesnt a doe have a genetic code it will pass on? Doesnt the big 2 point have a chance of passing on a genetic code that doesnt pass on a big 2 point frame?
When my grandpa use to have all his farm land and i would religiously watch these deer i not once did i see a replica deer set of antlers be produced. Maybe 3-4 deer out of 30 had a somewhat close antler configuration.
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@nfh , you are spot on here. I kept track of a big framed 3x2(no eye guards) one year that was the dominant buck in my area and was breeding does. Our mature bucks were few and far between from two terrible winters. Long story short, I never saw any bucks in the coming years resembling the 2x3 and when the bucks made a comeback I took two 200+ bucks in back to back years.

Something else I agree with is the doe may have much more to do with the bucks antler size than the buck does. At least that's what Kevin Monteith says.
 
jm77 said:
@nfh , you are spot on here. I kept track of a big framed 3x2(no eye guards) one year that was the dominant buck in my area and was breeding does. Our mature bucks were few and far between from two terrible winters. Long story short, I never saw any bucks in the coming years resembling the 2x3 and when the bucks made a comeback I took two 200+ bucks in back to back years.

Something else I agree with is the doe may have much more to do with the bucks antler size than the buck does. At least that's what Kevin Monteith says.
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I just get sick of the statements of a 200 class buck will produce 200 inch class bucks. My dad and I hunted the same river bottom for 20 plus years. My dad has a wall covered with mounts and not one is close to being simliar. Kinda like the whole spyder bull producing numerous world class bulls. What was the result? Still have yet to see a spyder bull junior
 
Slightlysober said:
What’s wrong with a 6 year old two point? Mature deer are mature deer doesn’t matter the score.

I wonder what a Colorado resident thinks of antler restrictions? Said no one ever!
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Even they abandoned them as they didn’t work and had numerous poaching incidents.
“Colorado implemented antler point restrictions for mule deer on a statewide basis for six years, and for a seven year period in several individual Game Management Units (GMUs). These seasons shifted hunting pressure to bucks greater than 2 years old. A marked increase in illegal or accidental harvest of yearling bucks was documented. However, the number and proportion of mature bucks did not increase.” https://bigdeerblog.com/2018/05/mule-deer-why-antler-point-restrictions-dont-work/
 
highfastflyer said:
Even they abandoned them as they didn’t work and had numerous poaching incidents.
“Colorado implemented antler point restrictions for mule deer on a statewide basis for six years, and for a seven year period in several individual Game Management Units (GMUs). These seasons shifted hunting pressure to bucks greater than 2 years old. A marked increase in illegal or accidental harvest of yearling bucks was documented. However, the number and proportion of mature bucks did not increase.” https://bigdeerblog.com/2018/05/mule-deer-why-antler-point-restrictions-dont-work/
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@Founder come on! Look at easy this is. He’s mixed his meds. And can’t be helped!
 
This whole thread is a waste of time. The seasons and quotas are approved and these APRs will move forward this year. Save it for next year when the regulations are opened and not approved by the Commission.

Or keep discussing it for nothing....
 
jm77 said:
This whole thread is a waste of time. The seasons and quotas are approved and these APRs will move forward this year. Save it for next year when the regulations are opened and not approved by the Commission.

Or keep discussing it for nothing....
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Yea guys
 
willfrye027 said:
The same guys who cry about biologist having no idea how bad of shape the herd is in, also cry about how antler point restrictions are proven (by biologists) not to work..
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The same guys who don’t cry about how bad of shape the herd is in also don’t want any restrictions as they just want to keep shootin em’ til’ there ain’t none standing. SAD.
 
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jm77 said:
This whole thread is a waste of time. The seasons and quotas are approved and these APRs will move forward this year. Save it for next year when the regulations are opened and not approved by the Commission.

Or keep discussing it for nothing....
Click to expand...
We already established that much earlier in the thread it had passed already. Nothing wrong with discussing the efficacy and Science or lack thereof behind APRs. Besides, maybe the newly formed Wildlife Taskforce may take a second look at overall regulations and policies for our continuously declining mule deer population. Though, I agree, reading your comments is certainly a waste of time.
 
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Ultimag said:
Poachers don't accidently harvest illegal deer until.they get caught then it's,always,
The it was an accident bullshit
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Sometimes young 13 year old hunters can make a mistake, are they poachers?
”
“Every time there’s a new regulation, there’s a learning curve,” Game Warden Shaw said. “Our position is to take an educational stance. There appears to be a steep learning curve with this regulation.

“I’m a hunter myself, so I understand what hunters face in the field when it comes to counting points,” Shaw added. “I shot a 6-point in Gladwin County last fall, where mandatory antler point restrictions aren’t in effect. I probably would not have shot that buck if MAPR had been effect. I could see the buck had antlers, but I’m not sure I could have counted the points. It had a small basket rack.”
For those seven counties where the new regulations went into effect last year, we received 53 complaints of APR violations,” Shaw said. “These were either hunters who made a mistake and were reporting themselves or calling in about another hunter. Many of the calls were from hunters self reporting.

“There were 35 tickets issued in those seven counties for APR violations and 46 verbal warnings issued. Most of the verbal warnings were for hunters who self reported. In no cases did we let the people who shot illegal bucks keep the deer.”
www.deeranddeerhunting.com

Pay $2,000, Face Jail Time for Shooting a 4-Point? | Deer & Deer Hunting

How would you like to face the possibility of losing your deer hunting opportunities for more than three years or five years and paying thousands of dollars in penalties for shooting a buck that was previously legal and, in fact, is legal to hunters over most of the state? By Richard P. Smith...
www.deeranddeerhunting.com www.deeranddeerhunting.com
 
The it was an accident bullshit
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Sometimes young 13 year old hunters can make a mistake, are they poachers?
Yup they are, because,at,13 their PARENT should know if its legal Or not
 
highfastflyer said:
Sometimes young 13 year old hunters can make a mistake, are they poachers?
”
“Every time there’s a new regulation, there’s a learning curve,” Game Warden Shaw said. “Our position is to take an educational stance. There appears to be a steep learning curve with this regulation.

“I’m a hunter myself, so I understand what hunters face in the field when it comes to counting points,” Shaw added. “I shot a 6-point in Gladwin County last fall, where mandatory antler point restrictions aren’t in effect. I probably would not have shot that buck if MAPR had been effect. I could see the buck had antlers, but I’m not sure I could have counted the points. It had a small basket rack.”For those seven counties where the new regulations went into effect last year, we received 53 complaints of APR violations,” Shaw said. “These were either hunters who made a mistake and were reporting themselves or calling in about another hunter. Many of the calls were from hunters self reporting.

“There were 35 tickets issued in those seven counties for APR violations and 46 verbal warnings issued. Most of the verbal warnings were for hunters who self reported. In no cases did we let the people who shot illegal bucks keep the deer.”
www.deeranddeerhunting.com

Pay $2,000, Face Jail Time for Shooting a 4-Point? | Deer & Deer Hunting

How would you like to face the possibility of losing your deer hunting opportunities for more than three years or five years and paying thousands of dollars in penalties for shooting a buck that was previously legal and, in fact, is legal to hunters over most of the state? By Richard P. Smith...
www.deeranddeerhunting.com www.deeranddeerhunting.com
Click to expand...
Its called positive target identification
if your not 100% sure it's legal dont squeeze the trigger
 
Ultimag said:
Sometimes young 13 year old hunters can make a mistake, are they poachers?
Yup they are, because,at,13 their PARENT should know if its legal Or not
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Ok, so you tell your 13 year old son not to shoot any small bucks unless it has 4 points on one side. He sees a young buck, gets a bit of buck fever and pulls the trigger only to find it’s a 3 X3. What do you do next Mr. Poacher the parent? It must have been truly a pleasure growing up around someone like you.
 
highfastflyer said:
Ok, so you tell your 13 year old son not to shoot any small bucks unless it has 4 points on one side. He sees a young buck, gets a bit of buck fever and pulls the trigger only to find it’s a 3 X3. What do you do next Mr. Poacher the parent? It must have been truly a pleasure growing up around someone like you.
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I,don't have kids,so there,is,that
I've never poached,a,damn thing in my life
If it wasn't legal or I didn't have,a legal tag or I couldn't positively identify it being legal
I don't shoot its,truly THAT simple
2-you dont give the kid a loaded,weapon or put a round,in the chamber until YOUR positive its,legal to shoot it
That way you don't worry about buck fever
Again its called positive target identification
 
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Ultimag said:
I,don't have kids,so there,is,that
I've never poached,a,damn thing in my life
If it wasn't legal or I didn't have,a legal tag or I couldn't positively ientify it being legal
I don't shoot its,truly THAT simple
2-you dont give the kid a loaded,weapon or put a round,in the chamber until YOUR positive its,legal to shoot it
That way you don't worry about buck fever
Again its called positive target identification
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“I don't have kids,so there,is,that”. Yes this helps explain it, hope you never do as you know nothing about patience, compassion, tolerance and teaching a child. Kids can and do make mistakes, this is why they issued 46 warning citations in above example, it all depends upon the circumstances and follow on reporting.
 
I thought I would get back on target with some "CONSTRUCTIVE" recommendations!

Some of the biggest bucks harvested in North America each year come from Utah. Utah offers interesting tags in their premium units (Henry's and Paunsaugunt). They are limited "management buck tags". Judging from the number of pts that are required to draw these high demand tags it must be a great hunt? I would be curious what those familiar with these tags have to say?

Believe me, Wyoming's limited units could definitely use improvement! I strongly believe that management type tags would not only put less stress on top end- older aged bucks in these units but would also offer hunters opportunity that currently is not available. Harvesting management bucks would also mean less competition on the winter range for does and fawns. I can assure you that management tags offered in Wyo units 87, 89, and 90 would be popular with Wyo res and nonres alike and improve buck quality and age. I assure you that there are some monster 3x bucks available in these units! Wyo res cry for more opportunity.....well here you go!

Management buck tags offered in G and elsewhere would be a great choice to promote survival of older age top-end bucks while harvesting bucks with less desirable genetics that breed does and compete for winter browse.
 
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DoubleD and Wyo Clan of Shame!

Why not be more concerned about management schemes and strategies that improve the health and quality of bucks available in G and elsewhere in Wyo rather than the constant battling over tags? It would be great if those that post are willing to step up to the plate and offer sound advice and support rather that CONSTANTLY bickering about nonres/res tags that don't benefit wildlife and wildlife management!

How about it Clan of Shame? What strategies do you have in mind to improve wildlife habitat and management in Wyoming for mule deer? I would certainly entertain the idea of switching your names to the Wyo Clan of Fame if you are willing to do this in the future!
 
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highfastflyer said:
Ok, so you tell your 13 year old son not to shoot any small bucks unless it has 4 points on one side. He sees a young buck, gets a bit of buck fever and pulls the trigger only to find it’s a 3 X3. What do you do next Mr. Poacher the parent? It must have been truly a pleasure growing up around someone like you.
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A youth hunter can't violate an APR in Wyoming.
 
jims said:
DoubleD and Wyo Clan of Shame!

Why not be more concerned about management schemes and strategies that improve the health and quality of bucks available in G and elsewhere in Wyo rather than the constant battling over tags? It would be great if those that post are willing to step up to the plate and offer sound advice and support rather that CONSTANTLY bickering about nonres/res tags that don't benefit wildlife and wildlife management!

How about it Clan of Shame? What strategies do you have in mind to improve wildlife habitat and management in Wyoming for mule deer? I would certainly entertain the idea of switching your names to the Wyo Clan of Fame if you are willing to do this in the future!
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Hey jims , tell us who all is this Wyo clan of shame ?

Cheat grass control is my idea for habitat improvement, perhaps some mt mahogany and bitter brush management too.
Habitat we might be able to control and improve, genetics not so much.

I sure hope we get those extra tags as residents as well, I need my 3rd moose license before I'm too old to hunt them again.
And I feel shameless for that.
 
jims said:
I thought I would get back on target with some "CONSTRUCTIVE" recommendations!

Some of the biggest bucks harvested in North America each year come from Utah. Utah offers interesting tags in their premium units (Henry's and Paunsaugunt). They are limited "management buck tags". Judging from the number of pts that are required to draw these high demand tags it must be a great hunt? I would be curious what those familiar with these tags have to say?

Believe me, Wyoming's limited units could definitely use improvement! I strongly believe that management type tags would not only put less stress on top end- older aged bucks in these units but would also offer hunters opportunity that currently is not available. Harvesting management bucks would also mean less competition on the winter range for does and fawns. I can assure you that management tags offered in Wyo units 87, 89, and 90 would be popular with Wyo res and nonres alike and improve buck quality and age. I assure you that there are some monster 3x bucks available in these units! Wyo res cry for more opportunity.....well here you go!

Management buck tags offered in G and elsewhere would be a great choice to promote survival of older age top-end bucks while harvesting bucks with less desirable genetics that breed does and compete for winter browse.
Click to expand...
Already gave you a bunch of good recommendations...I can't help it if reading and comprehension is your problem.

But, to add to what you have in your post.

I would like to see 100% of the available tags for any buck deer in units like 87, 89, 90 go to Residents.

A 90-10 R/NR split on "Management" bucks being defined as no more than 3 points excluding eye-guard on 1 antler.
 
Bookhead said:
Also has to be accompanied by an adult until the age of 14. Funny how you just get on here and run your mouth slow low flyer. Do some research
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We were discussing the difference between a young Hunter making a mistake and an outright poaching and the example used was Michigan law enforcement. I don’t have anymore nor have had kids hunt with me in decades so wasn’t aware of the specifics of Wyoming youth laws as it doesn’t affect old codgers like myself. Do you think there is a difference between a young hunter making a mistake and an outright poaching? Since you supposedly know youth laws maybe you can come up with a better example?

“Every time there’s a new regulation, there’s a learning curve,” Game Warden Shaw said. “Our position is to take an educational stance. There appears to be a steep learning curve with this regulation.

“I’m a hunter myself, so I understand what hunters face in the field when it comes to counting points,” Shaw added. “I shot a 6-point in Gladwin County last fall, where mandatory antler point restrictions aren’t in effect. I probably would not have shot that buck if MAPR had been effect. I could see the buck had antlers, but I’m not sure I could have counted the points. It had a small basket rack.”
For those seven counties where the new regulations went into effect last year, we received 53 complaints of APR violations,” Shaw said. “These were either hunters who made a mistake and were reporting themselves or calling in about another hunter. Many of the calls were from hunters self reporting.

“There were 35 tickets issued in those seven counties for APR violations and 46 verbal warnings issued. Most of the verbal warnings were for hunters who self reported. In no cases did we let the people who shot illegal bucks keep the deer.”
www.deeranddeerhunting.com

Pay $2,000, Face Jail Time for Shooting a 4-Point? | Deer & Deer Hunting

How would you like to face the possibility of losing your deer hunting opportunities for more than three years or five years and paying thousands of dollars in penalties for shooting a buck that was previously legal and, in fact, is legal to hunters over most of the state? By Richard P. Smith...
www.deeranddeerhunting.com www.deeranddeerhunting.com
 
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highfastflyer said:
We were discussing the difference between a young Hunter making a mistake and an outright poaching and the example used was Michigan law enforcement. I don’t have anymore nor have had kids hunt with me in decades so wasn’t aware of the specifics of Wyoming youth laws as it doesn’t affect old codgers like myself. Do you think there is a difference between a young hunter making a mistake and an outright poaching? Since you supposedly know youth laws maybe you can come up with a better example?

“Every time there’s a new regulation, there’s a learning curve,” Game Warden Shaw said. “Our position is to take an educational stance. There appears to be a steep learning curve with this regulation.

“I’m a hunter myself, so I understand what hunters face in the field when it comes to counting points,” Shaw added. “I shot a 6-point in Gladwin County last fall, where mandatory antler point restrictions aren’t in effect. I probably would not have shot that buck if MAPR had been effect. I could see the buck had antlers, but I’m not sure I could have counted the points. It had a small basket rack.”
For those seven counties where the new regulations went into effect last year, we received 53 complaints of APR violations,” Shaw said. “These were either hunters who made a mistake and were reporting themselves or calling in about another hunter. Many of the calls were from hunters self reporting.

“There were 35 tickets issued in those seven counties for APR violations and 46 verbal warnings issued. Most of the verbal warnings were for hunters who self reported. In no cases did we let the people who shot illegal bucks keep the deer.”
www.deeranddeerhunting.com

Pay $2,000, Face Jail Time for Shooting a 4-Point? | Deer & Deer Hunting

How would you like to face the possibility of losing your deer hunting opportunities for more than three years or five years and paying thousands of dollars in penalties for shooting a buck that was previously legal and, in fact, is legal to hunters over most of the state? By Richard P. Smith...
www.deeranddeerhunting.com www.deeranddeerhunting.com
Click to expand...
I think JM77 covered this...
 
It is a joke. Been through this a couple time in SW WY. They refuse to manage the herd people get pissed tired of seeing a ton of hunters and dink bucks. So people complain for a bit then they throw in a temporary point restriction. Which does a little to shift age structure, but they lift the restriction and in 2 years right back to square one. Instead of trying some heavy lifting they essentially are kicking the can down the road.

The real issue in 82, 100 ease of access. The places are covered with roads (both legal and illegal). Places where there are not roads guys will drive anyways. They did it this spring, they do it every fall. Where ever they feel like driving they drive. The deer do not stand a chance...

Personally I hate point restrictions. Last time they had restrictions I was forced to pass on a monster 3x3 and a 2x3. Both were old gnarly mature bucks. Sad part was there was a 16" 4x4 that maybe was 3. He got shot immediately on the rifle season and the other 2 were left to breed. I still see remnants of the 3.
 
I wonder what happens to all the deer in 82 and 100 that crosses in Colorado? Colorado is gonna kill and hammer a ton of bucks this year, they did last year as well. That will definitely hurt quality in WY as well.
 
BuzzH said:
Already gave you a bunch of good recommendations...I can't help it if reading and comprehension is your problem.

But, to add to what you have in your post.

I would like to see 100% of the available tags for any buck deer in units like 87, 89, 90 go to Residents.

A 90-10 R/NR split on "Management" bucks being defined as no more than 3 points excluding eye-guard on 1 antler
Click to expand...
How does this help the quality of the deer herd?
 
highfastflyer said:
Sometimes young 13 year old hunters can make a mistake, are they poachers?
”
“Every time there’s a new regulation, there’s a learning curve,” Game Warden Shaw said. “Our position is to take an educational stance. There appears to be a steep learning curve with this regulation.

“I’m a hunter myself, so I understand what hunters face in the field when it comes to counting points,” Shaw added. “I shot a 6-point in Gladwin County last fall, where mandatory antler point restrictions aren’t in effect. I probably would not have shot that buck if MAPR had been effect. I could see the buck had antlers, but I’m not sure I could have counted the points. It had a small basket rack.”
For those seven counties where the new regulations went into effect last year, we received 53 complaints of APR violations,” Shaw said. “These were either hunters who made a mistake and were reporting themselves or calling in about another hunter. Many of the calls were from hunters self reporting.

“There were 35 tickets issued in those seven counties for APR violations and 46 verbal warnings issued. Most of the verbal warnings were for hunters who self reported. In no cases did we let the people who shot illegal bucks keep the deer.”
www.deeranddeerhunting.com

Pay $2,000, Face Jail Time for Shooting a 4-Point? | Deer & Deer Hunting

How would you like to face the possibility of losing your deer hunting opportunities for more than three years or five years and paying thousands of dollars in penalties for shooting a buck that was previously legal and, in fact, is legal to hunters over most of the state? By Richard P. Smith...
www.deeranddeerhunting.com www.deeranddeerhunting.com
Click to expand...
No obviously a mistake is not the same as a intentional poaching. Still every hunter should know exactly what they're shooting at its your responsibility as a hunter. If you make an honest mistake and claim responsibility thats honorable and most game wardens see it that way too. Still might get a ticket but then again it's your own fault same as getting in a traffic accident that you're at fault in. Does that clear it up?
 
elks96 said:
It is a joke. Been through this a couple time in SW WY. They refuse to manage the herd people get pissed tired of seeing a ton of hunters and dink bucks. So people complain for a bit then they throw in a temporary point restriction. Which does a little to shift age structure, but they lift the restriction and in 2 years right back to square one. Instead of trying some heavy lifting they essentially are kicking the can down the road.

The real issue in 82, 100 ease of access. The places are covered with roads (both legal and illegal). Places where there are not roads guys will drive anyways. They did it this spring, they do it every fall. Where ever they feel like driving they drive. The deer do not stand a chance...

Personally I hate point restrictions. Last time they had restrictions I was forced to pass on a monster 3x3 and a 2x3. Both were old gnarly mature bucks. Sad part was there was a 16" 4x4 that maybe was 3. He got shot immediately on the rifle season and the other 2 were left to breed. I still see remnants of the 3.
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Great talking points. I wish off-road travel was restricted in those areas too. Sad to see so many tracks up washes etc.
 
Isn't there some way we can weave 90/10 into this conversation? We have all the characters on this thread who fancy themselves game management experts.
 
Slightlysober said:
Great talking points. I wish off-road travel was restricted in those areas too. Sad to see so many tracks up washes etc.
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Finally something we agree upon. I wish they would close a lot of those roads during hunting season in SW Wyoming and treat it like a walk in area. If it ain’t a county or BLM road then it’s off limits to motorised traffic during hunting season. Far too many Wyomingites now just want to go out for a UTV ride. I get it it’s fun, but not during deer hunting season. For cow elk season anything goes.
 
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Bookhead said:
No obviously a mistake is not the same as a intentional poaching. Still every hunter should know exactly what they're shooting at its your responsibility as a hunter. If you make an honest mistake and claim responsibility thats honorable and most game wardens see it that way too. Still might get a ticket but then again it's your own fault same as getting in a traffic accident that you're at fault in. Does that clear it up?
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This was only my thoughts also. I do admit I don’t know Wyoming youth laws though after your post I did take a quick look at them. It seems like a great deal and I’m glad they introduced that, I wasn’t aware as an old codger whose kids were hunting alongside decades ago. Young kids can and do make mistakes and yes the mentoring parent should be there to guide them. It does seem like the youth being able to kill a doe though in certain areas might be frowned upon in today’s severe down cycle but I’m sure it’s just a few doing it and in the long run a great introduction.
 
Savage110 said:
Isn't there some way we can weave 90/10 into this conversation? We have all the characters on this thread who fancy themselves game management experts.
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No, Please don’t on this thread. We don’t need any thread creep and moving sideways on APR restrictions and efficacy. If you want to do that we’ve had several other threads like this one. I can say we will keep pursuing it as Wyoming residents who are losing out on far far too many premium licenses but that’s for another thread. https://www.monstermuleys.info/xf/threads/wyoming-resident-hunters-lobby-group.188156/page-2
 
highfastflyer said:
Finally something we agree upon. I wish they would close a lot of those roads during hunting season in SW Wyoming and treat it like a walk in area. If it ain’t a county or BLM road then it’s off limits to motorised traffic during hunting season. Far too many Wyomingites now just want to go out for a UTV ride. I get it it’s fun, but not during deer hunting season. For cow elk season anything goes.
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I suppose they need to have their areas to go ride UTV's in. Let them have 100 and 82 i suppose :(
 
highfastflyer said:
“Antler Point restrictions work”. Not according to much of the Biological research from Colorado, Utah and now Texas. They no longer use it as it creates too many of these who remain and do all the breeding leaving lasting negative inferior genetics.

”Using antler points (i.e., 4-points on one antler) as a restriction has been unsuccessful in significantly improving buck age structure because there is a poor relationship between age and number of points, and many young mule deer bucks would meet a restriction based on minimum number of points. Data collected from mule deer and white-tailed deer indicate that the average antler spread increases as bucks mature.”View attachment 39394
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Read my entire comment.... try not to take a single line out of it, knee jerk react and then take it out of context. This might be hard for you, but try.
 
I don't care who kills the deer could be aliens for all I know but antler restrictions will give you an older class of deer on the range. Its not going to guarantee a quality deer if you do not take into consideration habitat protection. Then add it rain in the spring and snow levels in the winter. Trying to make this a resident versus Non resident is ludicrous.
 
tracker12 said:
I don't care who kills the deer could be aliens for all I know but antler restrictions will give you an older class of deer on the range. Its not going to guarantee a quality deer if you do not take into consideration habitat protection. Then add it rain in the spring and snow levels in the winter. Trying to make this a resident versus Non resident is ludicrous.
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If you are talking about Antler width restrictions then we agree. If you are talking about APR not so much. Many of the Western states have abandoned them as they had lasting negative effects on the herd.
“Colorado implemented antler point restrictions for mule deer on a statewide basis for six years, and for a seven year period in several individual Game Management Units (GMUs). These seasons shifted hunting pressure to bucks greater than 2 years old. A marked increase in illegal or accidental harvest of yearling bucks was documented. However, the number and proportion of mature bucks did not increase.” https://bigdeerblog.com/2018/05/mule-deer-why-antler-point-restrictions-dont-work/
 
travishunter3006 said:
Read my entire comment.... try not to take a single line out of it, knee jerk react and then take it out of context. This might be hard for you, but try.
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Yeah, there were multiple lines easily refuted by that worthless comment. Try again........ I also suggest you don’t try humour as you’re not very good at it.
 
This restriction is worthless since they let youth shoot any deer including does in Wyoming. The youth still shoot all the little bucks on these APR units.
 
RoadlessHunter said:
This restriction is worthless since they let youth shoot any deer including does in Wyoming. The youth still shoot all the little bucks on these APR units.
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Actually I really like this rule. But my kids wont ever shoot a mule deer doe. However the place where this rule will help, my daughter will be hammering that 30" 3x3 that I have passed on several times. Or that massive 28" 2x3 that I know is 7 years old. If my daughter tags out and I still find a buck like that I will be finding another youth for that deer.

I know not everyone feels that way, but in my family and circle, the only way a doe might get shot is if it is a first ever archery kill. My kids would rather not take a shot then kill a mule deer doe. Now a white tail doe might be a different story.
 
Trophy hunters may not like it but it is ok for hunters to meat hunt. I know guys that care less about antlers. I was in CO one year on a deer hunt and the guy camped next to us killed a really nice 170 class deer. He killed a cow elk the next day and packed up and left. That evening I noticed he had chucked the antlers over the hill. go figure.
 
tracker12 said:
Trophy hunters may not like it but it is ok for hunters to meat hunt. I know guys that care less about antlers. I was in CO one year on a deer hunt and the guy camped next to us killed a really nice 170 class deer. He killed a cow elk the next day and packed up and left. That evening I noticed he had chucked the antlers over the hill. go figure.
Click to expand...
Guy probably had a doe tag?
 
tracker12 said:
Trophy hunters may not like it but it is ok for hunters to meat hunt. I know guys that care less about antlers. I was in CO one year on a deer hunt and the guy camped next to us killed a really nice 170 class deer. He killed a cow elk the next day and packed up and left. That evening I noticed he had chucked the antlers over the hill. go figure.
Click to expand...
I thought in CO you have to remove the antlers from the field?
 

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