Interesting Vaccine Article

huntindad4 said:
How about flip this.... if we find in 5 years that the choice to get the vaccine was the more dangerous does your opinion hold?

I'm not just talking possible side effects but possibly the virus evolves into something that the vaccinated aren't protected from but the unvaccinated are through immunity slowly developed by getting several variants over time. The vaccinated could possibly fall behind in immunity by not being able to evolve with the virus.

Or horrible longterm side effects of the vaccine...

Either way is it then those folks who should be cast out as irresponsible for the choice they made?

I dont believe either deserves comparison to a drug addiction given the lack of and two sided information we have on the virus and the vaccine.
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Your assumption being that I as a vaccinated person won't come into contact with various strains that bombard my immune system creating a response?

The reality, in general, is that like most other respiratory viruses, over generations it will become weaker.

"Hot viruses kill their host, making spread hard.

Mutation is random, however it generally selects the path of least resistance.

Covid, like hundreds of cold viruses, the 1918 flu, the hing Kong flu, etc, 20years from now most likely won't be a big deal.

My in-laws and mom will be lucky to see 20 yrs, so I took the shot.

I'll deal with the outcome.

I make that choice about drinking beer, eating red meat, etc. I make adult decisions, I WILL deal with consequences.

Don't need Trump or Biden to hold my hand
 
hossblur said:
Your assumption being that I as a vaccinated person won't come into contact with various strains that bombard my immune system creating a response?

The reality, in general, is that like most other respiratory viruses, over generations it will become weaker.

"Hot viruses kill their host, making spread hard.

Mutation is random, however it generally selects the path of least resistance.

Covid, like hundreds of cold viruses, the 1918 flu, the hing Kong flu, etc, 20years from now most likely won't be a big deal.

My in-laws and mom will be lucky to see 20 yrs, so I took the shot.

I'll deal with the outcome.

I make that choice about drinking beer, eating red meat, etc. I make adult decisions, I WILL deal with consequences.

Don't need Trump or Biden to hold my hand
Click to expand...

Probably.... and yes usually that is how viruses evolve. But the point was you say you will deal with the outcome and consequences of those decisions but truth is if you develop heart disease from your life choices all of us pay in higher insurance premiums and health care costs. No different than those not vaccinating.

Oh sure I know they are spreading the virus and are more likely to get sicker incurring more cost now. But your long term decision on the vaccine along with millions of others could cause a strain on the system down the road.

So the question is should they then be compared to drug users and their decisions be viewed as irresponsible for their decision?
 
huntindad4 said:
Probably.... and yes usually that is how viruses evolve. But the point was you say you will deal with the outcome and consequences of those decisions but truth is if you develop heart disease from your life choices all of us pay in higher insurance premiums and health care costs. No different than those not vaccinating.

Oh sure I know they are spreading the virus and are more likely to get sicker incurring more cost now. But your long term decision on the vaccine along with millions of others could cause a strain on the system down the road.

So the question is should they then be compared to drug users and their decisions be viewed as irresponsible for their decision?
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Does the junkie shooting heroin living on the street "contribute" to you premium?

I do.

That's the difference.

People die of Wuhan TODAY at a much faster rate than vaccine deaths.

We can only deal with what we KNOW vs what could happen
 
I got the vaccine in late winter. All good. Minor side effects after second dose
Of Moderna. About the same as the side effects from second dose of shingles vaccine.
While my odd of dying of Covid are low, it is more likely I could need an extended expensive hospital stay. My family and My community does not need to bear that cost.
 
AZHunter2 said:
I got the vaccine in late winter. All good. Minor side effects after second dose
Of Moderna. About the same as the side effects from second dose of shingles vaccine.
While my odd of dying of Covid are low, it is more likely I could need an extended expensive hospital stay. My family and My community does not need to bear that cost.
Click to expand...
so....you got a vaccine that works so well you still have to wear a mask?? I doubt your family or community owes you much gratitude....
 
I got the vaccine in late winter. All good. Minor side effects after second dose
Of Moderna. About the same as the side effects from second dose of shingles vaccine.
While my odds of dying of Covid are low, it is more likely I could need an extended expensive hospital stay. My family and My community does not need to bear that cost.
 
hossblur said:
Does the junkie shooting heroin living on the street "contribute" to you premium?

I do.

That's the difference.

People die of Wuhan TODAY at a much faster rate than vaccine deaths.

We can only deal with what we KNOW vs what could happen
Click to expand...

You think the majority of folks getting the vaccine or covid for that matter are contributing to the premiums? Its either very different where you are or your eyes are closed.

The majority of "taxpayers" are getting more tax credits and freebies than they are contributing. And if their income is under 40k or so the government or actual taxpayers are the ones paying their premiums.

And that doesn't even take into account the ones who won't work and are collecting unemployment.
 
AZHunter2 said:
I got the vaccine in late winter. All good. Minor side effects after second dose
Of Moderna. About the same as the side effects from second dose of shingles vaccine.
While my odds of dying of Covid are low, it is more likely I could need an extended expensive hospital stay. My family and My community does not need to bear that cost.
Click to expand...
yeah.....we got that the first time you posted it.....
 
usafvet said:
Unfortunately the DOJ just said that it isn't illegal for employers to require the vaccine for employment.
Click to expand...

The DOJ has zero authority on the matter, it is completely irrelevant what they think. The only ones that can issue an opinion are the courts.

This is another attempt of coercion...
 
feddoc said:
www.thegatewaypundit.com

Inventor of mRNA Vaccine: Some Covid Vaccines Make the Virus More Dangerous | The Gateway Pundit | by Larry Johnson

Dr.
www.thegatewaypundit.com www.thegatewaypundit.com
Click to expand...

Add to this, We won't know long term side effects for awhile. It's still listed as "emergency use" only and not approved-there is legal reasons for this and it's not to the benefit of those getting the vaccine. Why all the push to have everyone stabbed? You didn't see that with the Flu Vaccine which killed thousands of people each year until last year? Follow the Money...............
 
The feds closed the cage door to their agency attack dogs. That’s not irrelevant.

Individuals suing their employers is the most difficult path you can travel. Certainly harder than getting the jab.
 
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hossblur said:
Well, I guess next we will quote Don Lemon?

When the Gateway Pundit is quoted, you've hit near bottom. Only choices left are Lemon or Alex Jones
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You could have read the article and posed your own counterpoint.

Or you could have taken the easy way out and bashed the article/source without counterpoints.

Not to worry, I have a long ways to go to hit bottom....
 
feddoc said:
You could have read the article and posed your own counterpoint.

Or you could have taken the easy way out and bashed the article/source without counterpoints.

Not to worry, I have a long ways to go to hit bottom....
Click to expand...


Here's a quick life lesson.

When an article on a vaccine, incorporates a paragraph comparing it to Hitler or Stalin, you can end it.

Unless somehow you think a vaccine created to try to help folks, is the EXACT SAME as a gas chamber, Gulag, or prison camp. Then of course, take the source seriously.

Does that mean drug companies are pure, nope.

Do I think Malone is pure? Nope. No one is.

But death rates in Us, Israel, plunged, as the vaccines came on line.

Hard to debate that data.
 
hossblur said:
Here's a quick life lesson.

When an article on a vaccine, incorporates a paragraph comparing it to Hitler or Stalin, you can end it.

Unless somehow you think a vaccine created to try to help folks, is the EXACT SAME as a gas chamber, Gulag, or prison camp. Then of course, take the source seriously.

Does that mean drug companies are pure, nope.

Do I think Malone is pure? Nope. No one is.

But death rates in Us, Israel, plunged, as the vaccines came on line.

Hard to debate that data.
Click to expand...
Geeeeee, thanks so very, very much for that life lesson. I just don't know how to go on without your advice.

Perhaps next time you can provide some critical thinking, if you can.
 
feddoc said:
Geeeeee, thanks so very, very much for that life lesson. I just don't know how to go on without your advice.

Perhaps next time you can provide some critical thinking, if you can.
Click to expand...


Perhaps next time post a National Enquirer article, pretty much the same as the Pundit.

Btw.

I held my dad in my arms the last night if his life as he slowly gasped for air with lungs full of cancer.

Choking to death on your own lungs, and dying of asphyxiation ain't super fun.

I also got to watch my wife have a filter put in her neck to keep blood clots from traveling to her heart and killing her.

You want to play with a cytokine storm, which is the killer with Covid, that's your choice.


You want to post accredited medical journal articles on the vaccines efficacy, then do it let's talk.

But your posting a Pundit Article, on a interview dine by Steve Bannon.

Like I said, perhaps Alex Jones or Don Lemon next
 
feddoc said:
Very sorry to read of your dad's ill health and your wife's ill health.
Click to expand...

Wasn't a sympathy play.

But simply a reality one.

Read a warning label on birth control. Read it on ibuprofen. Read it on Viagra.

And I DO NOT support mandated vaccine.

But I am as leary of the mandate folks as I am the vaccine conspiracy folks.

I don't trust either.

I do trust Dr. Jorgensen. He told me to get it, so I did.

I hire good people, be they doctors, mechanic, plumbers, etc. Let the professionals handle their profession.
 
hossblur said:
Wasn't a sympathy play.

But simply a reality one.

Read a warning label on birth control. Read it on ibuprofen. Read it on Viagra.

And I DO NOT support mandated vaccine.

But I am as leary of the mandate folks as I am the vaccine conspiracy folks.

I don't trust either.

I do trust Dr. Jorgensen. He told me to get it, so I did.

I hire good people, be they doctors, mechanic, plumbers, etc. Let the professionals handle their profession.
Click to expand...
hossblur said:
Wasn't a sympathy play.

But simply a reality one.

Read a warning label on birth control. Read it on ibuprofen. Read it on Viagra.

And I DO NOT support mandated vaccine.

But I am as leary of the mandate folks as I am the vaccine conspiracy folks.

I don't trust either.

I do trust Dr. Jorgensen. He told me to get it, so I did.

I hire good people, be they doctors, mechanic, plumbers, etc. Let the professionals handle their profession.
Click to expand...

All fair points and thus far can't be debated. But I would ask, is there a warning label on the vaccine? Is it complete yet?

All those other drugs you mention can be investigated as they are required to carry a complete warning of all known side effects. Even your trusted physician doesn't have a semi-complete list of side effects for the vaccine.
 
huntindad4 said:
All fair points and thus far can't be debated. But I would ask, is there a warning label on the vaccine? Is it complete yet?

All those other drugs you mention can be investigated as they are required to carry a complete warning of all known side effects. Even your trusted physician doesn't have a semi-complete list of side effects for the vaccine.
Click to expand...
This is an example of reading memes instead of real information. Google is your friend.

Here's 41 pages of dosage, storage, contraindication, etc... provided to your physician that you say doesn't have it...


Here's the version given to recipients...

www.fda.gov

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccines

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, Bivalent Now Authorized For All Doses
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov

Here another 25 pages...


It's all readily available.

J&J infamously had to put an additional warning on its label due to a rare side effect that was discovered. But the point is, contrary to your post, there is a warning label and "your trusted physician" does have it. There may be discovered additional side effects, no doubt, just like happens with every other drug that comes on the market, some are even later removed from availability. But unless you're adverse to all medicine, the argument carries no weight

So many of the claimed "side effects" aren't side effects at all as they're not shown to be of higher prevalence with the vaccine than without. But the memes and anecdotal "my sister-in-law's cousin" stories don't tell you that.
 
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If everybody in the USA got vaccinated except those under the age of 12, we would have to complete the southern wall and allow no one to enter, and cancel all international travel forever. Then I think we could say we beat the virus.

If we allow even 1 person in who is carrying a variant then we're done and have to start over, probably with a new vaccine to cover the more deadly variant.
 
eelgrass said:
If everybody in the USA got vaccinated except those under the age of 12, we would have to complete the southern wall and allow no one to enter, and cancel all international travel forever. Then I think we could say we beat the virus.

If we allow even 1 person in who is carrying a variant then we're done and have to start over, probably with a new vaccine to cover the more deadly variant.
Click to expand...
Yep. That's why they say the pandemic isn't over until everybody's vaccinated to the point the virus goes away altogether. We've eradicated viruses before via hyper-vaccination and every unvaccinated person out there is one more person at harbor a mutation and create that deadly variant.
 
eelgrass said:
If everybody in the USA got vaccinated except those under the age of 12, we would have to complete the southern wall and allow no one to enter, and cancel all international travel forever. Then I think we could say we beat the virus.

If we allow even 1 person in who is carrying a variant then we're done and have to start over, probably with a new vaccine to cover the more deadly variant.
Click to expand...
This right here. You can't beat this thing. Ever!!!

Wished I would have gotten Covid naturally instead of getting this damn vaccine.
 
RookieWYhntr said:
This right here. You can't beat this thing. Ever!!!
Click to expand...
You might want to look into the history of polio. It killed or paralyzed a half million people a year in the 1950s. We got a vaccine in 1955 and haven't even had a single case originate in the USA since the 1970s. And those that have been brought in from around the world didn't spread because the far majority of people here are vaccinated. It's now eradicated throughout the whole world except Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The question is whether we can get enough people vaccinated for Rona to get ahead of the variants and we just don't know the answer. What we do know is the more unvaccinated hosts there are, the more likelihood of variants. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy by those who say they aren't vaccinated because of variants as they're the ones largely allowing the variants.
 
grizzly said:
Yep. That's why they say the pandemic isn't over until everybody's vaccinated to the point the virus goes away altogether. We've eradicated viruses before via hyper-vaccination and every unvaccinated person out there is one more person at harbor a mutation and create that deadly variant.
Click to expand...

This is hilarious! And shows how naive some are. There will never be full vaccination or anywhere near it. This virus isn't deadly enough to warrant the push involved to get there. It's obvious by how hard they are pushing for it now yet they let folks who aren't even legal citizens to cross without testing.
 
huntindad4 said:
This is hilarious! And shows how naive some are. There will never be full vaccination or anywhere near it. This virus isn't deadly enough to warrant the push involved to get there. It's obvious by how hard they are pushing for it now yet they let folks who aren't even legal citizens to cross without testing.
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What is hilarious is those saying Rona is a hoax while getting all indignant over a Fox News report of illegals coming into the country with it. If it's no different than a cold, then you shouldn't care if illegals have it any more than if they had a sinus infection. But when illegals have it, all of a sudden FNC puts it on the front page and says the government is putting our lives in danger by letting them in.

I'm in no way in favor of illegal immigration, but the far-right is trying to have it both ways here.
 
eelgrass said:
If everybody in the USA got vaccinated except those under the age of 12, we would have to complete the southern wall and allow no one to enter, and cancel all international travel forever. Then I think we could say we beat the virus.

If we allow even 1 person in who is carrying a variant then we're done and have to start over, probably with a new vaccine to cover the more deadly variant.
Click to expand...
I’m looking for the downside in your scenario.
 
Bluehair said:
I’m looking for the downside in your scenario.
Click to expand...
??? I'll give you two

download.jpeg.jpg


download.jpeg-2.jpg
 
grizzly said:
This is an example of reading memes instead of real information. Google is your friend.

Here's 41 pages of dosage, storage, contraindication, etc... provided to your physician that you say doesn't have it...


Here's the version given to recipients...

www.fda.gov

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccines

Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 Vaccine, Bivalent Now Authorized For All Doses
www.fda.gov www.fda.gov

Here another 25 pages...


It's all readily available.

J&J infamously had to put an additional warning on its label due to a rare side effect that was discovered. But the point is, contrary to your post, there is a warning label and "your trusted physician" does have it. There may be discovered additional side effects, no doubt, just like happens with every other drug that comes on the market, some are even later removed from availability. But unless you're adverse to all medicine, the argument carries no weight

So many of the claimed "side effects" aren't side effects at all as they're not shown to be of higher prevalence with the vaccine than without. But the memes and anecdotal "my sister-in-law's cousin" stories don't tell you that.
Click to expand...
I may not have correctly conveyed this. But I understand there is an existing warning label. I also understand it isn't complete. Even meds as old as aspirin continue to be better understood to have side effects not acknowledged years ago. You have also touched on that so we agree there. My point is that this early there is possibly some very big side effects that are not known with the vaccine. Thus some folks don't trust it. Even some in the medical field.

I had covid. I was sick. It sucked I dont want it again. I understand its dangers to people. I also know people who had covid who were vaccinated. They are spreading the virus too...yes at a lower rate.

I would ask are people vaccinated against polio spreading it? I really don't know, but doubt it. They are not the same virus. Not even similar.

we will be dealing with covid from here on out, just like the common cold. It will probably become less dangerous but its not going away even if everyone is vaccinated.
 
hossblur said:
Here's a quick life lesson.

When an article on a vaccine, incorporates a paragraph comparing it to Hitler or Stalin, you can end it.

Unless somehow you think a vaccine created to try to help folks, is the EXACT SAME as a gas chamber, Gulag, or prison camp. Then of course, take the source seriously.

Does that mean drug companies are pure, nope.

Do I think Malone is pure? Nope. No one is.

But death rates in Us, Israel, plunged, as the vaccines came on line.

Hard to debate that data.
Click to expand...
Hoss - Where in the article was the vaccine compared to Hitler, Stalin, gulags & gas chambers? I think the point the author made was that - the powers that be went to great lengths to silence Malone. Silencing your opposition seems to be quite fashionable these days and a slippery slope I wish we were not clearly on. If Hunter's laptop story wasn't quashed by virtually every media outlet prior to the election we'd likely have a different CIC today.

BTW, the National Enquirer broke the baby mama story that ended John Edwards political career.

Best of luck with your family health issues, my heart goes out.
 
roadrunner said:
The DOJ has zero authority on the matter, it is completely irrelevant what they think. The only ones that can issue an opinion are the courts.

This is another attempt of coercion...
Click to expand...
Yes & no. When it comes to the federal statute on discrimination, it is the DOJ that will charge & prosecute someone. So what they're saying is as far as *that* law goes, it's perfectly OK to mandate a vacination -- no discrimination since it applies to ALL employees & does not involve the protected classes

And IMO, I think most judges would find for the employer if an employee decided to sue on the grounds of discrimination along the same lines as the DOJ.
 
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grizzly said:
You might want to look into the history of polio. It killed or paralyzed a half million people a year in the 1950s. We got a vaccine in 1955 and haven't even had a single case originate in the USA since the 1970s. And those that have been brought in from around the world didn't spread because the far majority of people here are vaccinated. It's now eradicated throughout the whole world except Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The question is whether we can get enough people vaccinated for Rona to get ahead of the variants and we just don't know the answer. What we do know is the more unvaccinated hosts there are, the more likelihood of variants. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy by those who say they aren't vaccinated because of variants as they're the ones largely allowing the variants.
Click to expand...
My catcher on the Little League team I pitched for in 1952 got polio. He was one of the fortunate ones that had almost no residual effects from it. He was back to catching my torrid fast ball :rolleyes: when we moved up to Babe Ruth ball two years later.
 
hossblur said:
Perhaps next time post a National Enquirer article, pretty much the same as the Pundit.

Btw.

I held my dad in my arms the last night if his life as he slowly gasped for air with lungs full of cancer.

Choking to death on your own lungs, and dying of asphyxiation ain't super fun.

I also got to watch my wife have a filter put in her neck to keep blood clots from traveling to her heart and killing her.

You want to play with a cytokine storm, which is the killer with Covid, that's your choice.


You want to post accredited medical journal articles on the vaccines efficacy, then do it let's talk.

But your posting a Pundit Article, on a interview dine by Steve Bannon.

Like I said, perhaps Alex Jones or Don Lemon next
Click to expand...

You could have decided to comment on whether or not the guy who invented mRNA vaccines was correct or not or something in between. Instead, you chose to discredit the source; that is not even close to critical thinking.

Until you crawl out from Tristate's underwear drawer, don't bother with teaching anyone a 'quick life lesson'.
 
Just might be The earth telling us to lower the population down to it carrying weight.
Seem this happens now and then.

May the odd's always be in your favor.

Hope you never get it because it Really does SUCKS a BIG ONE.

So if a person decide NOT to get the shots, does that mean the hospitals don't have spend a ton money saving them because they already made their choice. Just wondering how that works.

Have several people friends and family in the medical fields saying the people most coming into their hospitals are one's that didn't get the shots earlier now want a golden needle to make them well and now are finding out it doesn't work like that.

Again it hitting the area around here again big time.
up to 200 cases a day back to wearing a mask.
 
Gator said:
Just might be The earth telling us to lower the population down to it carrying weight.
Seem this happens now and then.

May the odd's always be in your favor.

Hope you never get it because it Really does SUCKS a BIG ONE.

So if a person decide NOT to get the shots, does that mean the hospitals don't have spend a ton money saving them because they already made their choice. Just wondering how that works.

Have several people friends and family in the medical fields saying the people most coming into their hospitals are one's that didn't get the shots earlier now want a golden needle to make them well and now are finding out it doesn't work like that.

Again it hitting the area around here again big time.
up to 200 cases a day back to wearing a mask.
Click to expand...
damn few are dying though.....
 
OutdoorWriter said:
Yes & no. When it comes to the federal statute on discrimination, it is the DOJ that will charge & prosecute someone. So what they're saying is as far as *that* law goes, it's perfectly OK to mandate a vacination -- no discrimination since it applies to ALL employees & does not involve the protected classes

And IMO, I think most judges would find for the employer if an employee decided to sue on the grounds of discrimination along the same lines as the DOJ.
Click to expand...

No and no. The doj does not issue an opinion on the legality of the matter, hence the reason for a separate and stand alone branch of gov't.

There is no statute requiring a vaccination, only a policy of a private company.

The inherent danger is that a person's ability to choose is being stripped away and people are stupid enough to think it's legal and OK...
 
roadrunner said:
No and no. The doj does not issue an opinion on the legality of the matter, hence the reason for a separate and stand alone branch of gov't.

There is no statute requiring a vaccination, only a policy of a private company.

The inherent danger is that a person's ability to choose is being stripped away and people are stupid enough to think it's legal and OK...
Click to expand...

1. The DOJ's Office of Legal Counsel does issue legal opinions. They did on this and they did on a certain former President and to whether he could be indicted. DOJ opinions are not new and are widely accepted. The link is below but the last paragraph gives the synopsis...

Screenshot_20210729-213317_Drive.jpg

It may be helpful to understand what OLC Opinions are and why they carry so much weight within the government and with courts.

Screenshot_20210729-214712_Samsung Internet.jpg




www.natlawreview.com

To Mandate or Not To Mandate: Department of Justice Weighs In on Vaccination Mandates

Can employers mandate vaccines? The Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel (OLC) says they can, but before employers do, they should consider the many legal and practical risks.
www.natlawreview.com www.natlawreview.com

2. Nobody said there was a "statute" requiring vaccination. @OutdoorWriter is correct about anti-discrimination laws being enforced by DOJ.

3. The "ability to choose" still exists. A person can choose to comply with their employers policies or find a new job. The employer writes the rules for his own business, not the employee. If an employee doesn't like it, they can find a new job. Nobody is forcing them to maintain employment at a certain job and it's certainly not their right to do so.

EDIT- With all the companies and agencies requiring vaccines, I'm sure court cases are coming. There will almost certainly be contradicting rulings until it travels far enough up the courts. It's also possible that it will take longer to travel up the court system than the requirements are even in place, so we may never know what the outcome would've been
 
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I've been doing reading on the legal ramifications of required vaccinations and found a few interesting tidbits.

People are probably already aware of Jacobsen v. Massachusetts, which is where the Supreme Court ruled 7-2 that it was legal to fine people for not getting vaccinated. My question was more to religious exemptions and I found an interesting piece referring to a Justice Scalia opinion that basically implied religious exemptions weren't valid arguments to not get vaccinated since the vaccination rule would apply to everybody equally...

"No law requires such a religious exemption. In terms of free exercise of religion under the 1st Amendment, the Supreme Court ruled more than 30 years ago in Employment Division vs. Smith that the Constitution does not require exceptions to general laws for religious beliefs. In an opinion by Justice Antonin Scalia, the court said that as long as a law is neutral, not motivated by a desire to interfere with religion and of general applicability to all individuals, it cannot be challenged based on free exercise of religion. In June, in Fulton vs. City of Philadelphia, the court reaffirmed this legal test."
 
huntindad4 said:
I may not have correctly conveyed this. But I understand there is an existing warning label. I also understand it isn't complete. Even meds as old as aspirin continue to be better understood to have side effects not acknowledged years ago. You have also touched on that so we agree there. My point is that this early there is possibly some very big side effects that are not known with the vaccine. Thus some folks don't trust it. Even some in the medical field.

I had covid. I was sick. It sucked I dont want it again. I understand its dangers to people. I also know people who had covid who were vaccinated. They are spreading the virus too...yes at a lower rate.

I would ask are people vaccinated against polio spreading it? I really don't know, but doubt it. They are not the same virus. Not even similar.

we will be dealing with covid from here on out, just like the common cold. It will probably become less dangerous but its not going away even if everyone is vaccinated.
Click to expand...


We don't know the long term affects of contracting Covid either. Especially for "long termers".

When your house is on fire you put the fire out. You don't stand around debating whether or not it's going to rain. Or if all that water will ruin the carpet.

What you want is absolute answers, yet you acknowledge evolving results on Aspirin.
 
roadrunner said:
No and no. The doj does not issue an opinion on the legality of the matter, hence the reason for a separate and stand alone branch of gov't.

There is no statute requiring a vaccination, only a policy of a private company.

The inherent danger is that a person's ability to choose is being stripped away and people are stupid enough to think it's legal and OK...
Click to expand...
They certainly do issue legal opinions, sometimes verbally and sometimes in writing, as they did on this issue. And..I never said there was any law about vaccinations. What I did say is the opinion had to do with the federal statute on DISCRIMINATION.
 
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eelgrass said:
That's fine as long as you know it's water and not gasoline.
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I promise you if my house is on fire my first reaction is to believe the scenario which is agreed upon by a full 95% of firefighters and hundreds of millions of previous examples... and let them hook up to the fire hydrant without calling a chemist to first run an examination on the water based on an unsubstantiated fear that Bill Gates is somehow part of a conspiracy to secretly switch hydrant water lines to gasoline so he can burn down houses and sell us more computers to replace the ones we lost in the ensuing inferno.
 
grizzly said:
I promise you if my house is on fire my first reaction is to believe the scenario which is agreed upon by a full 95% of firefighters and hundreds of millions of previous examples... and let them hook up to the fire hydrant without calling a chemist to first run an examination on the water based on an unsubstantiated fear that Bill Gates is somehow part of a conspiracy to secretly switch hydrant water lines to gasoline so he can burn down houses and sell us more computers to replace the ones we lost in the ensuing inferno.
Click to expand...
You didn't read the 18 reasons that wetmule posted. I get that.
 
feddoc said:
THIS CHANGES EVERYTHING





www.the-sun.com

Can masturbating REALLY boost your immune system and fight Covid?

WITH a deadly virus circulating the past year and a half, many people have been wondering how they can boost their immunity. Masturbating is sometimes touted as a way to give the immune system a ki…
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Hmmm. According to the article the effects in a test study lasted only 45 mins.


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So asking for a friend; if that is the case, how often would self-indulgence need to take place during one's day?
 
Good grief who dreamt up this garbage... Jeffrey Toobin?
I hope the CDC & Fauci don't see this. Masturbation lock downs & mandates will be mandatory. Everyone must stay home & play with themselves
 
OutdoorWriter said:
They certainly do issue legal opinions, sometimes verbally and sometimes in writing, as they did on this issue. And..I never said there was any law about vaccinations. What I did say is the opinion had to do with the federal statute on DISCRIMINATION.
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Their opinions mean nothing. They do not interpret the law.

And, you did say it was OK to mandate a vaccination which means there is some legal clout behind it which there is none. A court can certainly rule mandating a vaccine is in fact discriminatory if used to terminate when its an industry that does not commonly require it.

The doj can not overrule that court opinion...
 
roadrunner said:
Their opinions mean nothing. They do not interpret the law.

And, you did say it was OK to mandate a vaccination which means there is some legal clout behind it which there is none. A court can certainly rule mandating a vaccine is in fact discriminatory if used to terminate when its an industry that does not commonly require it.

The doj can not overrule that court opinion...
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What I said was it is legal under the current laws against discrimination for an employer to fire someone who doesn't have the shot. It doesn't need any more "legal clout" behind it as a long as it isn't against the laws now in place. The only exception MIGHT be couched under religous or disability reasons. And despite what you say about their opinion, the DOJ, who prosecutes discrimination cases, agrees with me in WRITING on that. It's their job.

The Civil Rights Division of the Department of Justice, created in 1957 by the enactment of the Civil Rights Act of 1957, works to uphold the civil and constitutional rights of all Americans, particularly some of the most vulnerable members of our society. The Division enforces federal statutes prohibiting discrimination on the basis of race, color, sex (including pregnancy, sexual orientation, and gender identity), disability, religion, familial status, national origin, and citizenship status.

Now since we're going in circles, you can have the last word & then we can agree to disagree.
 
EVILNR said:
There are some CDC numbers backing this up.
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"Some?"

What do the majority of CDC numbers say about COVID vaccinations?

What does the CDC recommend for COVID vaccinations?

Do you consider CDC a reliable source of COVID vaccination information?

______________

On another note...

I read so many people put so much stock in some guy with a kooky blog or WordPress page yet so easily look for excuses to dismiss literally thousands of trained doctors and I just shake my head.

We know not a single one those people will run to a blog to find out what to do when they need a ventilator or start coughing up blood... they'll go to the very hospital they dismissed in place a blogger just weeks before.
 
grizzly said:
"Some?"

What do the majority of CDC numbers say about COVID vaccinations?

What does the CDC recommend for COVID vaccinations?

Do you consider CDC a reliable source of COVID vaccination information?

______________

On another note...

I read so many people put so much stock in some guy with a kooky blog or WordPress page yet so easily look for excuses to dismiss literally thousands of trained doctors and I just shake my head.

We know not a single one those people will run to a blog to find out what to do when they need a ventilator or start coughing up blood... they'll go to the very hospital they dismissed in place a blogger just weeks before.
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Grizzly, I know what you are saying. However, there is plenty of evidence on both sides. Of course if people start coughing up blood and can't breathe they are going to the hospital. It just seems like those are very low odds and the vacciness definitely are not a cure all and have some problems. Would you agree with that statement?
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
Grizzly, I know what you are saying. However, there is plenty of evidence on both sides. Of course if people start coughing up blood and can't breathe they are going to the hospital. It just seems like those are very low odds and the vacciness definitely are not a cure all and have some problems. Would you agree with that statement?
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Yes, I agree that vaccines aren't a cure-all and have some problems. Nobody said they were 100% effective and without side-effects. The effectiveness percentages (even as they've evolved with variants) and side-effects have been widely publicized.

Would you agree that a person is less likely to be hospitalized and/or die if they've been vaccinated than if they haven't been vaccinated?
 
grizzly said:
Yes, I agree that vaccines aren't a cure-all and have some problems. Nobody said they were 100% effective and without side-effects. The effectiveness percentages (even as they've evolved with variants) and side-effects have been widely publicized.

Would you agree that a person is less likely to be hospitalized and/or die if they've been vaccinated than if they haven't been vaccinated?
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I would agree with that, for a certain population of people. For example, older folks, obese folks, and others with comorbidities. I think if you are fairly young and healthy it would be better to avoid the shot and hope for natural immunity. I believe natural immunity is better than the shot.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
I would agree with that, for a certain population of people. For example, older folks, obese folks, and others with comorbidities. I think if you are fairly young and healthy it would be better to avoid the shot and hope for natural immunity. I believe natural immunity is better than the shot.
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Gotcha
 
CDC has lost all credibility because they are stooping to the level of stupidity by trying to fit the idiotic political narrative of the clown college. The sooner the likes of fauci are gone (how I don't care), the better.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
Grizzly, I know what you are saying. However, there is plenty of evidence on both sides. Of course if people start coughing up blood and can't breathe they are going to the hospital. It just seems like those are very low odds and the vacciness definitely are not a cure all and have some problems. Would you agree with that statement?
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Been there, done that.

I have severe COPD & already have used O2 24/7 for more than 5 years. In March, 2020, I went to the ER on a Thurs. because of breathing difficulty. They kept me overnight and released me. On Mon., my wife had to call 911; the EMTs gave me a $200 trip in an ambulance. Subsequently, I spent 14 days in the hospital & another 17 in a rehab facility.

That hospital stay was the worst experience of my life. I spit up a lot of blood. At two different times, they made me verify my 'Do Not Resusitate' order. Because I never got out of bed & wasn't eating well, I lost the ability to stand up or walk. In fact, I had a hard time even lifting my legs in bed. It was kind of awkward having nurses lifting me on to a potty chair & wiping my butt.

Supposedly, it was severe pneumonia. Today, however, I'm pretty sure what I had was Covid-19. A reason I think that is because the hospital never billed me for my co-pay, which was about $1K. My guess is they billed the feds under the Covid-19 agreement for the balance my insurance didn't pay.

In rehab, it took me many days before I could walk again a bit with a walker, and even after I got home I had to use a walker and/or wheelchair for two weeks. Also, my wife had to help me get up off the john for at least a week.

And yes, it definitely had a lasting effect on both my body strenght & breathing ability. Now I'm hoping to make my 80th in Nov. but I'll need to make another hospital visit within the next couple weeks for a different problem. I'm not looking forward to it.
 
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Prayers and best wishes to you Tony. I know you said you've been vaccinated and you did the right thing with that. We don't want to lose someone with your knowledge and experience. You're a major asset here.
 
eelgrass said:
Prayers and best wishes to you Tony. I know you said you've been vaccinated and you did the right thing with that. We don't want to lose someone with your knowledge and experience. You're a major asset here.
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My wife has been vaccinated, but I haven't been. Because I'm still not very mobile & for fear of contracting C-19 with my very compromised immune system, I haven't left the house since the guy from the rehab joint brought me home in April, 2020 in a wheel chair. In fact, I had rented one as well, and I'm sitting in it right now as a I type this even tho it's not necessary. With a pillow on the seat, it's just more comfortable than the chair I normally had used. :ROFLMAO:

Oh, and I can't wear a mask either because I get claustrophobic. That was a major problem when I was last in the hospital. When my breathing got really bad, they wanted me to wear a special mask that not only provided oxygen but also removed the CO2. It was bulky, covered my entire face & had all sorts of straps to fit over the head & around the neck. When they made me put it on, I tore it off in about 15 secs. The doc threatened me with intubation if I didn't use it. I told him no way unless I can hold it in place with my hand and I wouldn't allow him to intubate me unless I was already unconscious. I stayed with a standard cannula with a greater O2 flow and made it thru.

Right now, I look like I'm 6 months pregnant because of the fluid build-up in my adomen, i.e. known as ascites. Been this way for a few months now. It really doesn't hurt that much but it makes me sort of sluggish & a bit unbalanced. It's like I'm carrying around 25-30 lbs of water. So that's why I really need to go in again -- to get it drained.

Unfortunately, it's supposedly a sign of a greater ill, such as liver cirrhosis or some form of cancer. I've never been a heavy consumer of alcohol, so I suspect the latter, considering I had surgery for colon cancer about 4 years ago. It was supposed to be all removed but...

So enough about my ills. But yeah, I'd like to hang around here a bit longer, and thanks from the invalid.....

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