Is the G&F Allocating an Extra 3,900 General Elk Tags to Nonresident Hunters?

highfastflyer

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Is the G&F Allocating an Extra 3,900 General Elk Tags to Nonresident Hunters?
Below is the exact language from CH44(iv):

(iv) Elk. A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. Reduced price cow/calf elk licenses and limited quota elk licenses remaining after the initial drawing may be made available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250). Sixteen percent (16%) of the total available limited quota full price and reduced price cow/calf elk licenses shall initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) limit shall be allocated as follows: The allocation of remaining licenses after the nonresident landowner drawing shall be forty percent (40%) to the Nonresident Special License Drawing and sixty percent (60%) to the Nonresident Regular License Drawing. If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing nonresident general elk licenses. Licenses remaining for limited quota areas resulting from this procedure may be made available in the resident elk initial drawing.
According to this data, in 2020, nonresident hunters drew 2,301 leftover elk tags.

So, in 2020, Nonresidents received 13,513 Total Tags ….

- 7,253 Tags from the Initial Draw

- 2,301 Leftover Tags

= 3,959 elk tags unaccounted for.

At the September 1 Task Force meeting, I asked Ms. Doering to explain these extra nonresident elk tags. Unbelievably, given she’s the License Section Chief, Ms. Doering replied that she didn’t know and told me to ask Deputy Director Doug Brimeyer. So I sent Mr. Brimeyer an email … he initially replied saying he’d get back to me, but never did.https://www.307hunter.com/articles/joint-trw-committee-forwards-9010-bill-for-big-5-to-full-legislature
 
They are the reduced price cow/calf tags. Those are not included in the 7250 allocation.
If this is true, the regulation has been violated, and the department has been issuing thousands of more general season elk tags to nonresidents than allowed by regulation.
 
No if about it, starting in 1997 and continuing thereafter, many full price antlerless tags have been converted to reduced price cow/calf tags which are not included in the 7250 allocation. This has increased the amount of NR gen tags issued. Very surprised Doug didn't know this off the top of his head.

Got no interest in getting into whether they are violating any statutes by doing this but it is the reason for your discrepancy. This is not new and should not be a surprise to anyone.
 
No if about it, starting in 1997 and continuing thereafter, many full price antlerless tags have been converted to reduced price cow/calf tags which are not included in the 7250 allocation. This has increased the amount of NR gen tags issued. Very surprised Doug didn't know this off the top of his head.

Got no interest in getting into whether they are violating any statutes by doing this but it is the reason for your discrepancy. This is not new and should not be a surprise to anyone.
It violates the wording of the statute as Reduced Price Counts against the 7250.
Sixteen percent (16%) of the total available limited quota full price and REDUCED PRICE cow/calf elk licenses shall initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250”
 
Not surprised by that either. He may win (don't know/care) but in the end if he thinks it will result in less NR gen tags he is dreaming. Cant un-ring that bell. The statute will be re-written, allocation changed or removed entirely, go to NR Gen elk regions, etc. Any court win will only potentially result in a short term reduction in NR gen tags.
 
Not surprised by that either. He may win (don't know/care) but in the end if he thinks it will result in less NR gen tags he is dreaming. Cant un-ring that bell. The statute will be re-written, allocation changed or removed entirely, go to NR Gen elk regions, etc. Any court win will only potentially result in a short term reduction in NR gen tags.
The language of the statute is quite CLEAR. If the Legislature increases the 7250, unlikely, though it could happen but that won’t happen for awhile and the way 90/10 momentum is going, doubtful. Your lackadaisical attitude that 3900 potentially Illegally issued NR hunters were hunting elk in General areas is Sadly noted.
 
GFY! Welcome to the party Johnny come lately. You have no idea how involved in this **** I have been over the last 10 years. You have no idea how much time and money I have spent fighting increases in NR gen tags over the last 10 years. You also have no idea how successful I have been. Hell of a lot more than your googling that's for sure. Once again, GFY!
“I have spent fighting increases in NR gen tags over the last 10 years”. Then you state, “don't know/care”. With fighting and defending Resident interests like that who needs enemies.
 
“I have spent fighting increases in NR gen tags over the last 10 years”. Then you state, “don't know/care”. With fighting and defending Resident interests like that who needs enemies.
You're nothing but a blowhard...put a sock in it.

I know mulecreek and what he has done for hunting and sportsmen here. He's not a loudmouth like you but has the ear of the people that matter.

Highfastliar...how come I never see you at any commission meetings, task force meetings?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you're Shaul's PR guy...
 
You're nothing but a blowhard...put a sock in it.

I know mulecreek and what he has done for hunting and sportsmen here. He's not a loudmouth like you but has the ear of the people that matter.

Highfastliar...how come I never see you at any commission meetings, task force meetings?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you're Shaul's PR guy...
Are you a front man for the Outfitters and NR like Mulecreek also who seems to actually enjoy the Game and Fish is issuing an additional 3900 licenses and most of those General Elk licenses? I can see whose team you are on at the Task Force. PATHETIC.
 
Is the G&F Allocating an Extra 3,900 General Elk Tags to Nonresident Hunters?
Below is the exact language from CH44(iv):

(iv) Elk. A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. Reduced price cow/calf elk licenses and limited quota elk licenses remaining after the initial drawing may be made available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250). Sixteen percent (16%) of the total available limited quota full price and reduced price cow/calf elk licenses shall initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) limit shall be allocated as follows: The allocation of remaining licenses after the nonresident landowner drawing shall be forty percent (40%) to the Nonresident Special License Drawing and sixty percent (60%) to the Nonresident Regular License Drawing. If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing nonresident general elk licenses. Licenses remaining for limited quota areas resulting from this procedure may be made available in the resident elk initial drawing.
According to this data, in 2020, nonresident hunters drew 2,301 leftover elk tags.

So, in 2020, Nonresidents received 13,513 Total Tags ….

- 7,253 Tags from the Initial Draw

- 2,301 Leftover Tags

= 3,959 elk tags unaccounted for.

At the September 1 Task Force meeting, I asked Ms. Doering to explain these extra nonresident elk tags. Unbelievably, given she’s the License Section Chief, Ms. Doering replied that she didn’t know and told me to ask Deputy Director Doug Brimeyer. So I sent Mr. Brimeyer an email … he initially replied saying he’d get back to me, but never did.https://www.307hunter.com/articles/joint-trw-committee-forwards-9010-bill-for-big-5-to-full-legislature
Wouldn’t the 3,959 tags be all the reduced price type elk tags that all NR can apply for in the initial draw separate from their regular/special application?
I haven’t looked at the total number of reduced price tags available but is 3,959 16% of those tags?

Edit to add- A quick look at the 2021 elk regulations show about 23,000+ reduced price elk tags available.?
 
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Wouldn’t the 3,959 tags be all the reduced price type elk tags that all NR can apply for in the initial draw separate from their regular/special application?
I haven’t looked at the total number of reduced price tags available but is 3,959 16% of those tags?
Those are hard questions to google. ? ? That will shut him up for a bit….
 
Wouldn’t the 3,959 tags be all the reduced price type elk tags that all NR can apply for in the initial draw separate from their regular/special application?
I haven’t looked at the total number of reduced price tags available but is 3,959 16% of those tags?

Edit to add- A quick look at the 2021 elk regulations show about 23,000 reduced price elk tags available.?
The language is quite clear go read it again above the Reduced Price are a part of the 7250. The regulation may have been violated, and the department has been issuing thousands of more general season elk tags to nonresidents than allowed by regulation.
 
The language is quite clear go read it again above the Reduced Price are a part of the 7250. The regulation may have been violated, and the department has been issuing thousands of more general season elk tags to nonresidents than allowed by regulation.
Nowhere does it state the reduced price tags are part of the 7250 licenses available. It’s a separate draw for those type of tags. It states that 16% of the reduced price are available to NR in the initial draw.
I was always under the impression that the 7250 tags were a combination of limited quota/general tags. NR would get 16% of the available LQ tags and then X amount of general tags until 7250 was reached.
 
Nowhere does it state the reduced price tags are part of the 7250 licenses available. It’s a separate draw for those type of tags. It states that 16% of the reduced price are available to NR in the initial draw.
I was always under the impression that the 7250 tags were a combination of limited quota/general tags. NR would get 16% of the available LQ tags and then X amount of general tags until 7250 was reached.
FAIL. The language says “If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing nonresident general elk licenses.” Nowhere in the Language does it exempt the reduced price licenses, in fact it specifically names them as a part of the Nonresident drawing. If that was the case it would need to say 10,550 licenses can be issued in the Initial Nonresident Drawing. The legislature was very Clear. The G & F has been violating the clear intent of the language. The G&F won’t even give an answer of how they arrived at the 13,513 licenses. Maybe they don‘t want to incriminate themselves as they know they have been over issuing and using all that extra money. Hmmmm……..????
 
FAIL. The language says “If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing nonresident general elk licenses.” Nowhere in the Language does it exempt the reduced price licenses, in fact it specifically names them as a part of the Nonresident drawing. If that was the case it would need to say 10,550 licenses can be issued in the Initial Nonresident Drawing. The legislature was very Clear. The G & F has been violating the clear intent of the language. The G&F won’t even give an answer of how they arrived at the 13,513 licenses. Maybe they don‘t want to incriminate themselves as they know they have been over issuing and using all that extra money. Hmmmm……..????
If that’s the case then so be it. I guess you should take this to court and it should be a slam dunk for you to prove using this thread as evidence also.
Until then I will assume they will continue to issue tags as they have in previous years and us NR will continue to purchase tags and add income to WY fish and game.

Just curious does anyone have the data for how many resident general elk tags were issued for 2021? I know there were about 3,500 NR tags issued in 2021.
 
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The allocation is acceptible since the dollars will go for a good cause, have no impact upon the general allocation, bring great value to the state/region, and the recipients are elite sportpersons of prime stature.
 
If that’s the case then so be it. I guess you should take this to court and it should be a slam dunk for you to prove using this thread as evidence also.
Until then I will assume they will continue to issue tags as they have in previous years and us NR will continue to purchase tags and add income to WY fish and game.

Just curious does anyone have the data for how many resident general elk tags were issued for 2021? I know there were about 3,500 NR tags issued in 2021.
Until Game and Fish explains how they perform the license allocation there is no case yet but many in the State Legislature will not be happy with Illegally issuing 3900 additional elk permits going in direct violation of the Legislature. It’s unbelievable so far the Backpedaling and failure to answer. If that’s the way Game and Fish want it then they need Legislative approval not just Willy NILLY doing things for their own benefit. Sad.
 
There aren't 3900 "missing" licenses. Shaul just doesn't know which reports to ask for, and instead of just having an intelligent conversation to get his questions asked he goes off on a tirade on his website.
As far as the regulation, 7,250 Elk Licenses are issued in the initial draw, and "Reduced Price Elk Licenses" are not "Elk Licenses" in the context of that regulation.
 
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There aren't 3900 "missing" licenses. Shaul just doesn't know which reports to ask for, and instead of just having an intelligent conversation to get his questions asked he goes off on an ignorant tirade on his website.
As far as the regulation, 7,250 Elk Licenses are issued in the initial draw, and "Reduced Price Elk Licenses" are not "Elk Licenses" in the context of that regulation.
Yet 10,550 were issued in the initial draw and it’s clear the Legislature intended the reduced price to be a part of the 7250. “Sixteen percent (16%) of the total available limited quota full price and REDUCED PRICE cow/calf elk licenses shall initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250”. “If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing nonresident general elk licenses.”. Nowhere does it exempt the Reduced price licenses. If that’s what Game and Fish wants they can fight for that in next years Legislature. Good luck with the 90/10 momentum.
 
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The dept does offer 16% of the full price and Reduced Price quotas to nr although they’re never filled. And where in regulation does it say the 7,250 shall be comprised of full price and reduced price licenses?
It doesn't...and highfastliar has a comprehension deficit.

Oh and highfastliar, the 7,250 NR elk licenses has nothing to do with the legislature, its in regulation, not statute.

You would know this if you ever showed up to the commission meetings, like JM77, mulecreek, and I did to beat down the outfitters when they asked the COMMISSION to increase the 7,250 tags via regulation. At least the outfitters know the difference between statute and regulation.

You and Shaul are a match made in misinformed heaven...
 
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The dept does offer 16% of the full price and Reduced Price quotas to nr although they’re never filled. And where in regulation does it say the 7,250 shall be comprised of full price and reduced price licenses?
It’s in the Legislation passed by the Legislature. “ A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. REDUCED PRICE cow/calf elk licenses and limited quota elk licenses remaining after the initial drawing may be made available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250).
 
It’s in the Legislation passed by the Legislature. “ A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. REDUCED PRICE cow/calf elk licenses and limited quota elk licenses remaining after the initial drawing may be made available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250).
Wrong...7,250 is in regulation. The commission has the authority to reduce or increase the 7,250.

Wake up.

Here, I'll help you out...

 
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It really isn't that difficult to get questions answered. Living there, Shaul has no excuse. He could make an appointment, spend an hour or so and come out of there knowing where every nr license was allocated.
 
Wrong...7,250 is in regulation. The commission has the authority to reduce or increase the 7,250.

Wake up.

Here, I'll help you out...

Here you need some more help. This regulation is promulgated by authority of Wyoming Statutes § 6-7-101, § 9-4-217(h), § 20-6-112, § 23-1-102, § 23-1-107, § 23-1-302, § 23-1-702, § 23-1- 703, § 23-1-704, § 23-1-705, § 23-2-101, § 23-2-102, § 23-2-107, § 23-2-109, § 23-2-201, § 23- 2-207, § 23-2-301, § 23-2-306, § 23-2-307, § 23-2-401 and § 23-3-403, § 23-6-301

Besides read the OP,

Below is the exact language from CH44(iv):

(iv) Elk. A total license limit of seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) nonresident elk licenses shall be made available to nonresident applicants in the initial drawing each year. Reduced price cow/calf elk licenses and limited quota elk licenses remaining after the initial drawing may be made available to nonresidents in addition to the limit of seven thousand two hundred fifty (7,250). Sixteen percent (16%) of the total available limited quota full price and reduced price cow/calf elk licenses shall initially be offered to nonresidents in the nonresident elk initial drawing. The order of the nonresident elk initial drawings described in this section shall be Nonresident Landowner Licenses, Nonresident Special Licenses, and then Nonresident Regular Licenses. Following the Nonresident Landowner License Drawing, licenses available in the initial drawing from the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) limit shall be allocated as follows: The allocation of remaining licenses after the nonresident landowner drawing shall be forty percent (40%) to the Nonresident Special License Drawing and sixty percent (60%) to the Nonresident Regular License Drawing. If the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota is not issued in the initial nonresident drawings, the Department may achieve the seven thousand two hundred-fifty (7,250) license quota by issuing nonresident general elk licenses. Licenses remaining for limited quota areas resulting from this procedure may be made available in the resident elk initial drawing.”

Do the Outfitters Association and the Game and Fish really have you on their payroll as everyone says?
 
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It really isn't that difficult to get questions answered. Living there, Shaul has no excuse. He could make an appointment, spend an hour or so and come out of there knowing where every nr license was allocated.
He tried that. Did you read Rob’s post? “
At the September 1 Task Force meeting, I asked Ms. Doering to explain these extra nonresident elk tags. Unbelievably, given she’s the License Section Chief, Ms. Doering replied that she didn’t know and told me to ask Deputy Director Doug Brimeyer. So I sent Mr. Brimeyer an email … he initially replied saying he’d get back to me, but never did.

Instead I received a letter from Chief of Policy and Planning Tod Larson noting that the department did not have to answer in detail, my question, and pointed me to the 2020 Annual Report, which didn’t answer my question/concerns.

I’m not sure why the Department is avoiding answering this question, and I hope I’m either using the wrong numbers or misunderstanding the information. However, the Department’s lack of directness has me concerned. Mr. Larson’s letter to me seemed confrontational.”
 
The only "extra" licenses issued to nr are when they fill a party. In that instance the dept deducts those "extra" nr party licenses when back filling to meet the 7,250 requirement. In essence, a single hunt area can be over subscribed but the 7,250 total is never gone over. Those nr licenses don't deduct from the resident hunt area quota. They may have in the past but they don't now.

He doesn't know what to look for and I'd guess his demeanor is such they aren't going to volunteer the info. I know I'm not.
 
He tried that. Did you read Rob’s post? “
At the September 1 Task Force meeting, I asked Ms. Doering to explain these extra nonresident elk tags. Unbelievably, given she’s the License Section Chief, Ms. Doering replied that she didn’t know and told me to ask Deputy Director Doug Brimeyer. So I sent Mr. Brimeyer an email … he initially replied saying he’d get back to me, but never did.

Instead I received a letter from Chief of Policy and Planning Tod Larson noting that the department did not have to answer in detail, my question, and pointed me to the 2020 Annual Report, which didn’t answer my question/concerns.

I’m not sure why the Department is avoiding answering this question, and I hope I’m either using the wrong numbers or misunderstanding the information. However, the Department’s lack of directness has me concerned. Mr. Larson’s letter to me seemed confrontational.”
More google and cut and paste...

No wonder you're confused.
 
The only "extra" licenses issued to nr are when they fill a party. In that instance the dept deducts those "extra" nr party licenses when back filling to meet the 7,250 requirement. In essence, a single hunt area can be over subscribed but the 7,250 total is never gone over. Those nr licenses don't deduct from the resident hunt area quota. They may have in the past but they don't now.

He doesn't know what to look for and I'd guess his demeanor is such they aren't going to volunteer the info. I know I'm not.
Correct, that all changed with the later NR elk draw which is now conducted after the final quota's are approved by the commission.

JM77 and I worked on that for 2-3 years. In the interim Jeff made a suggestion to mostly fix that problem, that the commission approved, before the NR draw was moved. That change that Jeff initiated nearly fixed the residents being shorted about 500 LQ tags.

Funny thing, we fixed this stuff without being a bunch of arseholes to the commission, department, and legislature. Something highfatliar and Shaul don't savvy...

We asked Talbott to run the elk draw report, which he did. We pointed out the over-issue of NR LQ tags, under-issue of R's and worked with the Department and commission to fix it.

How things should work rather than threats, filing lawsuits and all that other crap Shaul seems to want to do.

How you approach concerns matters, and Shaul has the approach and personality of a wet fart...

(B) Following the nonresident elk initial drawing, quotas for resident limited quota full priced and reduced price cow/calf elk licenses shall be the greater of the elk quotas established by Commission regulation less any elk licenses currently issued to nonresidents or eighty-four (84%) percent of the quota established by Commission regulation in the initial drawing. The order of the resident elk initial drawings depicted in this section shall be Resident Landowner Licenses, then Resident Regular Licenses.
 
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More google and cut and paste...

No wonder you're confused.
I’m sure you’re a legend in your own mind. Although, it doesn’t hurt to be on the Outfitters and Game and Fish payroll. I’d explain it to you but I don’t have the time nor the CRAYONS big enough for that, isn’t it about time for your nap and your adult diaper change?
 
I’m sure you’re a legend in your own mind. Although, it doesn’t hurt to be on the Outfitters and Game and Fish payroll. I’d explain it to you but I don’t have the time nor the CRAYONS big enough for that, isn’t it about time for your nap and your adult diaper change?
Good luck with the lawsuit you and Shaul file because neither of you can read.

Laffin'...
 
I sure hope they file a lawsuit. I can see it now. The game and fish/outfitters association will get legislature to change the regulations to state 7250 full price licenses and continue on as intended.

I personally feel most residents understand the way the draw was intended or maybe don’t even care that only about 3500 NR draw a general elk tag each year. Split that among the 50 or so general units also.
 
I sure hope they file a lawsuit. I can see it now. The game and fish/outfitters association will get legislature to change the regulations to state 7250 full price licenses and continue on as intended.

I personally feel most residents understand the way the draw was intended or maybe don’t even care that only about 3500 NR draw a general elk tag each year. Split that among the 50 or so general units also.
Good luck with that during this 90/10 momentum and obvious Clear Language in the Regulation. At least you recognise a Problem with the Clear wording of the Regulation and what the Game and Fish is potentially doing here.
 
Good luck with that during this 90/10 momentum and obvious Clear Language in the Regulation. At least you recognise a Problem with the Clear wording of the Regulation and what the Game and Fish is potentially doing here.
Serious question. Why are you so upset about the NR general elk tags being given out? There is no quota for Residents of WY and you can pick one up at the gas station on your way to your chosen unit. Instead you’re worried about the 3500 tags issued to NR in the Non resident draw like intended.
Also if a 90/10 split was ever to pass for WY elk there will be even more NR general tags issued.
 
HH, I took my medicine and decided to help you out...

2020 nr Elk licenses sold (took 1 whole day to get)

full price 7,253 (7,250 quota, oops they went over)
reduced price 2,800 (3425 quota)
leftover full price, 480 (1,545 quota, 1,323 total drawn)
leftover reduced price, 1,821 (6,923 quota, 3,124 total drawn)

12,351 issued for the 2020 license year. Had to update, they didn't split out the res/nr in the leftover reports.
 
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Serious question. Why are you so upset about the NR general elk tags being given out? There is no quota for Residents of WY and you can pick one up at the gas station on your way to your chosen unit. Instead you’re worried about the 3500 tags issued to NR in the Non resident draw like intended.
Also if a 90/10 split was ever to pass for WY elk there will be even more NR general tags issued.
No. 1 it is a violation of the Regulation and Clear wording preventing 10,050 elk licenses being issued when only 7250 should be. No. 2 Issuing 2800 additional licenses above the 7250 has taken away from the Resident opportunity for many of those Reduced Price licenses in premium areas. Regarding the 90/10 for Elk, what we are seeking is more opportunity as other states offer to Residents of 90% of those premium limited quota areas, the same as almost every Western state.
 
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HH, I took my medicine and decided to help you out...

2020 nr Elk licenses sold (took 1 whole day to get)

full price 7,253 (7,250 quota, oops they went over)
reduced price 2,800 (3425 quota)
leftover full price, 1,323
leftover reduced price, 3,124

14,500 issued to all types of nr for the 2020 license year. There are no missing licenses.....
Thanks for demonstrating 2800 licenses above the 7250 quota were issued during the Initial NR Drawing. I’m sure the Judge will see it.
 
you're welcome

Where are these 11,100 licenses, or the 3,900?

My suggestion is to disregard any license numbers you've seen from rob shaul; he doesn't know the nr process nor does he have the data. Get the data for yourself and go from there.
 
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you're welcome

Where are these 11,100 licenses, or the 3,900?

My suggestion is to disregard any license numbers you've seen from rob shaul; he doesn't know the nr process nor does he have the data. Get the data for yourself and go from there.
According to your numbers which show 7250 + 2800 issued in the Initial draw or 10,050 licenses issued when only 7250 should be according to the Regulation. My suggestion is choose wisely as a NR as the Elk fest over issue may end soon.
 
No. 1 it is a violation of the Regulation and Clear wording preventing 10,050 elk licenses being issued when only 7250 should be. No. 2 Issuing 2800 additional licenses above the 7250 has taken away from the Resident opportunity for many of those Reduced Price licenses in premium areas. Regarding the 90/10 for Elk, what we are seeking is more opportunity as other states offer to Residents of 90% of those premium limited quota areas, the same as almost every Western state.
It hasn’t taken away any resident opportunity for the reduced price tags. Residents get 84% of those tags also. If a WY resident can’t draw a type 6/7 tag on either their first or second choice they should really study the draw reports a bit more.
The 7250 is only limited quota and general tags which residents get 84% of the LQ tags and there isn’t a quota for Resident general tags so NR aren’t taking any tags from residents in that pool.
 
It hasn’t taken away any resident opportunity for the reduced price tags. Residents get 84% of those tags also. If a WY resident can’t draw a type 6/7 tag on either their first or second choice they should really study the draw reports a bit more.
The 7250 is only limited quota and general tags which residents get 84% of the LQ tags and there isn’t a quota for Resident general tags so NR aren’t taking any tags from residents in that pool.
“The 7250 is only limited quota and general tags which residents get 84% of the LQ tags and there isn’t a quota for Resident general tags so NR aren’t taking any tags from residents in that pool.” No, it also includes Reduced price in that 7250 number but the Game and Fish erroneously has been over- issuing.

“It hasn’t taken away any resident opportunity for the reduced price tags.” They are issuing these above the 7250 quota so it does take resident opportunity away.
 
“The 7250 is only limited quota and general tags which residents get 84% of the LQ tags and there isn’t a quota for Resident general tags so NR aren’t taking any tags from residents in that pool.” No, it also includes Reduced price in that 7250 number but the Game and Fish erroneously has been over- issuing.

“It hasn’t taken away any resident opportunity for the reduced price tags.” They are issuing these above the 7250 quota so it does take resident opportunity away.
Wrong...and you have failed to prove it.

You and Shaul are going to get laughed out of court.

Cut your boy another check and move along.
 
@Cahunter805 don't waste your time with HFL, nothing is going to change with the allocation of elk licenses unless the Task Force recommends 90/10 and that is unlikely. I do believe type 6&7 tags were instituted after the 7250 was already in place and reduced price tags were never meant to be included in the cap. Worst case scenario, and mulecreek already mentioned this, would be maybe one season while the regulation was amended. Most likely it could be amended with no interruption of current allocation.
 
Anything to add to the discussion, troll?


Which discussion? The one about elk?

Or the one where you take personal shots at dudes, then act offended when it comes back?

Entertaining that you going after commissioners, and getting them "fired" is not acting like an azzhole(your words), yet anyone else calling them out, are learning deficienct, are nicknamed, or mocked.

Those of us following had to read war and peace with his point being ridiculed. Seems like it could have been done in 2or 3.

Luckily Wapiti and Mule arent as omnipotent as you, and explained things for us regular folks.
 
Which discussion? The one about elk?

Or the one where you take personal shots at dudes, then act offended when it comes back?

Entertaining that you going after commissioners, and getting them "fired" is not acting like an azzhole(your words), yet anyone else calling them out, are learning deficienct, are nicknamed, or mocked.

Those of us following had to read war and peace with his point being ridiculed. Seems like it could have been done in 2or 3.

Luckily Wapiti and Mule arent as omnipotent as you, and explained things for us regular folks.
Drinking early today?
 
@Cahunter805 don't waste your time with HFL, nothing is going to change with the allocation of elk licenses unless the Task Force recommends 90/10 and that is unlikely. I do believe type 6&7 tags were instituted after the 7250 was already in place and reduced price tags were never meant to be included in the cap. Worst case scenario, and mulecreek already mentioned this, would be maybe one season while the regulation was amended. Most likely it could be amended with no interruption of current allocation.
I knew the type 6/7 were created after the regulation was written for the 7250 and thus aren’t included and also are a separate draw. I also assume most people even residents of WY think this way about the type 6/7 and don’t have a problem with how the draw is conducted.
Since the type 6/7 draw is separate and residents can only draw 84% of the tags available anyway I don’t know why anyone would be upset that non residents are drawing these tags also.
 
I knew the type 6/7 were created after the regulation was written for the 7250 and thus aren’t included and also are a separate draw. I also assume most people even residents of WY think this way about the type 6/7 and don’t have a problem with how the draw is conducted.
Since the type 6/7 draw is separate and residents can only draw 84% of the tags available anyway I don’t know why anyone would be upset that non residents are drawing these tags also.
Absolutely correct, just like Jeff said, the type 6/7 came about well after the 7250 regulation.

What has been contentious a few times is the conversion of type 4's to type 6/7's (pushed by outfitters) which has increased the number of general tags.

Since cow elk hunts are so popular in some areas, I would like to see more type 6's and 7's converted to type 4's. Both for R and NR hunters, if there is high demand for cow tags in certain areas, charging the higher fee of a type 4 makes total sense.
 
Worst case scenario, and mulecreek already mentioned this, would be maybe one season while the regulation was amended. Most likely it could be amended with no interruption of current allocation.
FINALLY you come clean and admit it, (HOUSTON WE HAVE A PROBLEM). PRICELESS.. I rest my case.
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What is it with the Wyoming forum?

Lots of us hunt Wyoming so we watch this forum. No, we don't all go to commission meetings, any more than Wyoming dudes go to surrounding states meetings.

So when issues arise, many of us watch them.

But for some reason, a tiny handful, have decided themselves the right hand of God, and instead of explaining an issue, or offering up regs/laws, it becomes a "where were you?", or "liar", or "taking under the table money".

I watch several states forums, and in none them does the same handful offer nothing other than ad hominem attacks on each other.

I'm sure somehow dudes get some superiority complex from it, but it does grow tired.

Highflyer brought up a point. Would have taken 4-5 posts to show his wrongness or correctness. Instead, it's a War and Peace novel of pop shots.
 
What is it with the Wyoming forum?

Lots of us hunt Wyoming so we watch this forum. No, we don't all go to commission meetings, any more than Wyoming dudes go to surrounding states meetings.

So when issues arise, many of us watch them.

But for some reason, a tiny handful, have decided themselves the right hand of God, and instead of explaining an issue, or offering up regs/laws, it becomes a "where were you?", or "liar", or "taking under the table money".

I watch several states forums, and in none them does the same handful offer nothing other than ad hominem attacks on each other.

I'm sure somehow dudes get some superiority complex from it, but it does grow tired.

Highflyer brought up a point. Would have taken 4-5 posts to show his wrongness or correctness. Instead, it's a War and Peace novel of pop shots.
All we can know is that we know nothing. And that's the height of human wisdom.
 
What is it with the Wyoming forum?

Lots of us hunt Wyoming so we watch this forum. No, we don't all go to commission meetings, any more than Wyoming dudes go to surrounding states meetings.

So when issues arise, many of us watch them.

But for some reason, a tiny handful, have decided themselves the right hand of God, and instead of explaining an issue, or offering up regs/laws, it becomes a "where were you?", or "liar", or "taking under the table money".

I watch several states forums, and in none them does the same handful offer nothing other than ad hominem attacks on each other.

I'm sure somehow dudes get some superiority complex from it, but it does grow tired.

Highflyer brought up a point. Would have taken 4-5 posts to show his wrongness or correctness. Instead, it's a War and Peace novel of pop shots.
Thanks Brandon
 
What is it with the Wyoming forum?

Lots of us hunt Wyoming so we watch this forum. No, we don't all go to commission meetings, any more than Wyoming dudes go to surrounding states meetings.

So when issues arise, many of us watch them.

But for some reason, a tiny handful, have decided themselves the right hand of God, and instead of explaining an issue, or offering up regs/laws, it becomes a "where were you?", or "liar", or "taking under the table money".

I watch several states forums, and in none them does the same handful offer nothing other than ad hominem attacks on each other.

I'm sure somehow dudes get some superiority complex from it, but it does grow tired.

Highflyer brought up a point. Would have taken 4-5 posts to show his wrongness or correctness. Instead, it's a War and Peace novel of pop shots.
This is your way of explaining this thread and what goes on here. The truth is, three different Wyoming residents tried to explain to HFF what was going on and what could and would be the possible results of this language in regulation.

Now go back and see how HFF responded to them.
 
"You're nothing but a blowhard...put a sock in it.

I know mulecreek and what he has done for hunting and sportsmen here. He's not a loudmouth like you but has the ear of the people that matter.

Highfastliar...how come I never see you at any commission meetings, task force meetings?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you're Shaul's PR guy.."



Ya. Lots of info shared in that post.
 
"You're nothing but a blowhard...put a sock in it.

I know mulecreek and what he has done for hunting and sportsmen here. He's not a loudmouth like you but has the ear of the people that matter.

Highfastliar...how come I never see you at any commission meetings, task force meetings?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you're Shaul's PR guy.."



Ya. Lots of info shared in that post.
Does every post need info shared? If so wtf are your posts about?
 
"You're nothing but a blowhard...put a sock in it.

I know mulecreek and what he has done for hunting and sportsmen here. He's not a loudmouth like you but has the ear of the people that matter.

Highfastliar...how come I never see you at any commission meetings, task force meetings?

If I didn't know better, I'd say you're Shaul's PR guy.."



Ya. Lots of info shared in that post.
Look, side with who you want, but you're the last person here that should be telling anyone how to act.
 
FYI a task force meeting tomorrow Dec. 3rd. You can watch via zoom and view the agenda on the TF website but don’t expect the dishonest Outfitter/Landowner bunch to allow adequate discussion on 90/10. One example is Sen, dickless Driskill,

Sen. Driskill said sportsmen have too much influence on the transferrable landowner tags and access issues. See his comments below from the meeting which begin round minute 27 of the second meeting video:

"I think we've outsized, and I'm going to get the heck beat out of me for this, but I think we've outsized of these what is 10-12% of Wyoming that are Sportsmen. We're allowing them to make decisions for the entire state of Wyoming and that's really not who this is really is about. It's about game and management. And that goes beyond outfitters, sportsman and private landowners. It is how do we look at the big picture and do what's right for the game, birds and people of Wyoming. That encompasses all of those groups I just named, but it doesn't give any of them an exclusive end of where it's at. Sportsmen shouldn't necessarily have a lot bigger say on the big blocks of public ground. On big blocks of private ground it really doesn't matter how mad sportsmen want to get. It's not going to change how they get managed and what happens. How do we make it so they work better for all of us, because - like I said I'm going to get some arrows on that because it looks like I'm trying to bully them, but the truth is what's the number that's been given? 10%, 12%, 18% of us who are sportsmen?“

This guy is Clueless so pass along to any friends come election time in NE Wyoming how he misrepresents the constituency of his district. Typical of a Wyoming rancher to patronize other Wyoming residents. They are the royalty, and we're serfs, right? They are what about 2% of the population.
Remember these are the ones who so far have played their hand, “At various points during the the November 18, meeting, Pat Crank, Duaine Hagen (landowner/outfitter) and Ogden Driskill (landowner/outfitter) all said they opposed 90/10 for deer, elk and antelope. Joe Schaffer indicated he still favored at least discussing it. No other members tipped their hands.

The landowners are still pushing hard for those transferable licenses. Sadly the Game and Fish department is likely facilitating these political moves.

Rob Shaul from 307hunter had this to say about the last meeting.

The Commissioners are political appointees, but the Department personnel are public servants and supposed to be honest brokers. The Department's evasiveness concerning this and the other issues we've raised, with Nesvik at the top, is alarming .... Ms. Doering was not truthful when I asked her about this question in September.

It pains me to say that we can't trust Department personnel or any information they promulgate.” https://www.307hunter.com/articles/...-elk-tags-ranchers-patronize-resident-hunters
 
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