Controlled Hunt Management Idea

IdahoSwede · Dec 17, 2021

IDFG Regulation Idea for Mule deer - what do you think - good or bad idea?

LAW: If you shoot a forky, or a spike mule deer on a regular season tag, you are ineligible to apply for a controlled deer hunt the following year.

LOGIC: Tons of guys say they are just meat hunters and shoot the first buck that comes along. Those same guys still apply for a controlled hunt year after year reducing the odds for people that truly want to find a bigger dear, while also reducing the population of mature animals.

DESIRED OUTCOME: 1. Would make some people think twice about shooting just any old deer, let some forkies grow, and perhaps slightly increase the number of mature animals 2. Lower number of people applying for the controlled hunts, thereby increasing the odds of drawing for "trophy hunters" 3. You're not reducing opportunity for people that dont actually care about size of deer - shoot what you want, you just dont get to do controlled hunts.

OBVIOUS CHALLENGE: Enforcement- how would you actually collect honest data from what people harvested. There might be an easy way, but im sure there would be plenty of people that would find a way around it.

Blindnonresident · Dec 17, 2021

You would need enforcement of the law.
That's the problem with any Idaho rules.
Look at all the people hunting from SXS in non motorized areas.
Zero enforcement.

OLDHORNHUNTER · Dec 17, 2021

Never gonna happen, I know people that claim they are meat hunters, if they have a 2x2 & a 4x4 standing next to each other they are shooting the bigger buck . Idaho needs to put all the residents that drew buck & bull tags back to a 2 to 3 year wait. Put ALL the non residents tags in a controlled hunt ONLY draw NO more over the counter tags Period. Still Not gonna happen because that would take F&G actually doing something for the game animals & not the overall amount of $$ brought in

hawkbill · Dec 17, 2021

There meat eaters because they killed a young Buck. They kill a big Buck there bragging all over. Everyone I know enjoys seeing mature Deer. There are a lot of things we could do for the Deer but and the farm,fish and game has to be willing. We have one conservation officer for Four huge units

N_Corey · Dec 17, 2021

I have a simpler idea. 4 point minimum statewide that includes whitetail and mule deer.

JPblind · Dec 17, 2021

I say if you you have a 1A on your plates or out of state you're not allowed off the main highway.

Blank · Dec 17, 2021

Antler point restrictions (APR's) have been tried many times, and proven to be difficult to see any long term benefit, and generally people are split 50-50 on them. I like to hunt mature bucks, and don't always look for points or score. Sometimes old bucks are big 2x2 or 3x3. If I want meat, I'd prefer it to be a cull, like a spike.

I would be in support of a reg change allowing either MD or WT bucks with at least one unbranched antler, or WT's with a 13" inside spread, or MD with a 20" inside spread to be harvested.

dgfavor · Dec 17, 2021

N_Corey said:
I have a simpler idea. 4 point minimum statewide that includes whitetail and mule deer.

Not too many years ago that was the regs in my unit. It didn't last long - I stopped at the regional FnG office the year they stopped 4pt or better, going back to antlered only, and they had a very large display of 3pt racks that hunter's shot first, counted points later, and left them lying where they shot em when they realized they messed up. Those regs didn't work out so well...in an OTC tag scenario anyway. Probably work better in a limited entry draw.

N_Corey · Dec 17, 2021

Yeah it does seem like any areas they put point restrictions on people still blow their wads when they see a deer with antlers and can’t take the time to actually look it over.

Cooper · Dec 17, 2021

N_Corey said:
Yeah it does seem like any areas they put point restrictions on people still blow their wads when they see a deer with antlers and can’t take the time to actually look it over.

Hopefully in the days of everyone having a camera phone maybe people would be less likely to do that knowing someone could get a pic

BrianID · Dec 19, 2021

The 4 point restrictions are only a temporary solution for one or two years. I don't think this is a bad idea to implement for a year or two after really bad winter kill.

Personally I like the idea if you tag a buck one year you have to sit out the next year. With mandatory reporting already in place it wouldn't be difficult to enforce. It would take away opportunity from the guys that want to kill a deer every year but the truth is there just are not enough deer for guys to put meat in their freezer every year. There are many guys that either choose to not kill a "meat buck" at the end of the season and also many guys that are not very good at hunting that just don't kill many deer. They guys that kill a buck almost every year are the ones that need to be limited. I like the idea of penelizing the guys that kill a buck. It doesn't cause much harm to provide more opportunity to guys that are not killing deer.

There should be no 2nd tag opportunity outside the X tags. Residents and nonresident being able to buy a 2nd tag is just a money grab by the F$G.

Another option is to make hunters choose either deer or elk tag for the year. This would instantly cut the number of deer and elk hunters in Idaho by about 40%. It wouldn't decrease harvest by 40% but it would reduce crowding.

Replacing general season with draw only like Colorado does could increase the number of big deer. It would come at the cost of opportunity that many Idaho hunters are not willing to give up. Every survey the F&G has done shows a majority of Idaho hunters are not willing to give up opportunity for quality.

backcountryID · Dec 20, 2021

N_Corey said:
I have a simpler idea. 4 point minimum statewide that includes whitetail and mule deer.

I would support it for mule deer, but I'm all for harvesting as many whitetails as we can. Most of the shots I get at whitetail bucks are fairly fleeting, and a four point restriction would mean I kill less whitetails.

JPickett · Dec 20, 2021

i've said it before and ill say it again. you guys look through this with the lens of us that eat, sleep and breath hunting 12 months a year. fish and game sets seasons by surveys and opinions of guys that don't touch the ole 30-06 until October 2nd and have no idea why in the hell they would give up taking little johnny out deer hunting every year, that's a far greater percentage of the "hunting " population. i see these guys on my sites all the time, they look at your like you have 2 heads for spending 3k on bino's . . its just not going to happen

IdahoSwede · Dec 21, 2021

We all know already know that these ideas are incredibly unlikely to happen. We all know already that every IDFG decision is based on money, and ensuring they wont lose any funding.

We give our thoughts for the same reason we watch a video about Dall sheep hunting in Alaska; its fun to dream... Its fun to back seat drive the IDFG, because they aren't going come up with quality management ideas themselves.

kimbersig · Dec 30, 2021

BrianID said:
Replacing general season with draw only like Colorado does could increase the number of big deer. It would come at the cost of opportunity that many Idaho hunters are not willing to give up. Every survey the F&G has done shows a majority of Idaho hunters are not willing to give up opportunity for quality.

I think make general season dates unlimited first choice only would be a good option to start with to give the opportunity guys the opportunity and improve draw odds for the other hunts and hopefully improve quality of the bucks as well as quality if hunting.

BrianID · Dec 30, 2021

kimbersig said:
I think make general season dates unlimited first choice only would be a good option to start with to give the opportunity guys the opportunity and improve draw odds for the other hunts and hopefully improve quality of the bucks as well as quality if hunting.

That is exactly what has been done in unit 73 for several years. It really hasn't resulted in older age class of bucks that hunters dream of finding during the hunt. As evidence by the other thread about 73 it hasn't even produced very many quality bucks to hunt for the guys that are lucky enough to draw the extended season tag that goes through November. They have tried the 4 point hunt and shorter seasons 15 to 20 years ago in 73 o and 70 as well. Unit 70 was restricted on tags and has produced better opportunity at 5+ year old bucks but has come at the cost of not getting to hunt unless you are lucky enough to draw.
If you want to have more mature bucks to hunt it will come at the cost of opportunity that most Idaho hunters are not willing to give up.

grizzly · Dec 30, 2021

Lots of discussion here about managing hunters, less so about managing deer.

PS. Herds don't look at license plates. Guys just want theirs and are trying to figure out how to protect themselves, but it's still not about managing the actual deer.

SS! · Dec 31, 2021

It’s time to have the talk about the state raising deer in pens and releasing them for hunting. They have been doing this for a long time with fish. Why not for deer? Fishermen don’t seem to care.

As the breeder bucks get older and can’t produce they can release them like they do the breeder fish.

It’s time. Raise and release the deer. Only solution to a growing population!

hawkbill · Dec 31, 2021

You are correct, the farmers may as well high fence those pivots and corn fields and they could sell the game back to the fish and game. I’m surprised they haven’t tried that.

wildfin · Dec 31, 2021

I believe pen raised is why cwd got started and is now all over, and that was mainly wt being moved to canned hunt areas.

JPickett · Dec 31, 2021

SS! said:
It’s time to have the talk about the state raising deer in pens and releasing them for hunting. They have been doing this for a long time with fish. Why not for deer? Fishermen don’t seem to care.

As the breeder bucks get older and can’t produce they can release them like they do the breeder fish.

It’s time. Raise and release the deer. Only solution to a growing population!

As long as we can post up right at the back of the truck there when they let um go like you can with fish. Man, that’d be some real backcountry hunting you could throw up on IG in a flatly!!

hawkbill · Dec 31, 2021

These are in my yard , how much , let the bidding begin!

hawkbill · Dec 31, 2021

We have so much snow right now, the animals are getting hit on the highway. There all down on the valley floor. Wait until the airplanes and helicopters start chasing the predators, or the A-holes that are chasing them down on snowmobiles, since it legal to run them over now.

Muleskinner · Jan 1, 2022

There is alot of mature bucks white tail and muley just have to be will to go where nobody wants to go the people that hunt for meat usually are road hunters or don't get to far away from camp or roads when you start putting restrictions on Hunting or fishing you will get more poachers. Bear lion and and wolf winter kills are probably the biggest factor

hawkbill · Jan 1, 2022

Show me pictures of your big Mature Bucks from this year, last year and year before

Muleskinner · Jan 1, 2022

hawkbill said:
Show me pictures of your big Mature Bucks from this year, last year and year before

hawkbill · Jan 1, 2022

Nice whitetail let’s see those big old Muleys

jims · Jan 1, 2022

After Colo switched over to all limited deer tags the number of B&C bucks dramatically increased across the entire state. In fact, Colo has been known as the B&C mecca of the Western US since that time.

With OTC tags, 2x and 3x bucks were the norm in Western Colo. It only took around 3 years to notice the significant change. If Idaho wants more mature bucks, hunters and the IG&F are going to have to bite the bullet and limit tags so they can manage harvest and quality of bucks more effectively. Even with all limited units it's still possible to draw tags on a regular basis for all but the highest demand units in Colo.

Something else that can be done is mule deer habitat improvement projects. Some may have seen my posts in regard to cheatgrass control. This is a game changer for mule deer, elk, and other wildlife....especially on critical winter ranges! Wyoming is taking great strides with large-scale cheatgrass control projects. Hopefully neighboring states will catch on!

Cheating the Sage — Partners in the Sage

Cheatgrass and other invasive grasses loom as a major threat to mule deer sagebrush habitat. Now is the time for hunters and land managers to act!

www.partnersinthesage.com

Invasive Vegetative Species Management - Mule Deer Foundation

muledeer.org

Medicine Bow-Routt National Forests & Thunder Basin National Grassland - News & Events

www.fs.usda.gov

Muleskinner · Jan 1, 2022

hawkbill said:
Nice whitetail let’s see those big old Muleys

hawkbill · Jan 1, 2022

That is a nice mule deer, but you’re still not going to tell me there are mature Deer all over, myself and a lot of other hunters have watched them decline rapidly over the last 10 years

BrianID · Jan 3, 2022

Muleskinner said:
There is alot of mature bucks white tail and muley just have to be will to go where nobody wants to go the people that hunt for meat usually are road hunters or don't get to far away from camp or roads when you start putting restrictions on Hunting or fishing you will get more poachers. Bear lion and and wolf winter kills are probably the biggest factor

There are some remote places that mature bucks can be found on a regular basis but anyone claiming there are “a lot of mature bucks” in Idaho’s OTC units is stretching the truth at best. Since you have been able to kill some nice bucks, you should know that better than most hunters.