Muzzies And Archery Discussion

slamdunk

Moderator
Messages
10,389
So.....let's shift gears here from trail cams and discuss what is coming next before it gets here.

I used to be a die hard archer, it was my obsession. I shot competitively year round on leagues and state teams, and I had a 277 average out of a perfect 300 range score.....I was pretty damn good at indoor freestyle unlimited, and shot very well on outdoor ranges as well.
I gave up archery hunting after I lost a giant P&Y buck on the Henry’s, it destroyed my confidence in my equipment and was the last straw. That loss wasn't my first with a bow, but it would definitely be my last.
I took up guiding to fill the void of those September memories on the mountain, and did it very successfully for over 20 years.

Since then I have taken up muzzleloaders.
Started out with a Hawkin kit gun I put together and killed a few deer with it.
Then the inlines came out....how could I say "No" to something that could improve my range and success, right?
1x scope and I was deadly with it out past 100 yards.
Then came the allowance of variables. Boom....here came a Vortex 4x12 "Tactical".....now I'm popping milk jugs at 300 yards with ease and have killed mature bucks from my ATV!

Having shared that history, I have never once used a trail camera, not even with the outfitter I worked for....I don't even own one.

So.....here we are facing other possible changes to weaponry.
I will be the first to say that I will gladly remove my Vortex off my Muzzy, go back to open sights only and get back to "Hunting" versus "Killing".
I will gladly adopt old "archery
style techniques" of sitting in ground blinds, tree stands and spot and stalk situations with my muzzleloader, and guess what.....I'll probably be more successful because I'll actually have to "Hunt"!

So you want to ask, "Slam, you don't need a law to remove your scope, why don't you just do it anyway?"
My answer......"Because I legally don't have to" ?‍♂️
 
I do think we will see more technologies from each weapon system hit the chopping block. Be interesting to watch where it goes from here.

I’m for going to open sights on a muzzleloader. Not because I think it will fix a thing with our animals. But I think participation will fall off, and I’m all for less people on the mountain ?

As for archery all I could imagine them doing is banning range finding sights, maybe sliders.

Rifles? Not really sure? Exposed turrets ban? So now you gotta take off the cap to dial ?
 
I do think we will see more technologies from each weapon system hit the chopping block. Be interesting to watch where it goes from here.

I’m for going to open sights on a muzzleloader. Not because I think it will fix a thing with our animals. But I think participation will fall off, and I’m all for less people on the mountain ?

As for archery all I could imagine them doing is banning range finding sights, maybe sliders.

Rifles? Not really sure? Exposed turrets ban? So now you gotta take off the cap to dial ?
Everything you just stated ?
 
Hunt with a muzzle loader like you would with a bow. You won’t need any scope. The tag is much harder to come by. All the crap about long range muzzle load is bull sh!t. If you can’t hunt, don’t muzzle load hunt. Have some integrity. Almost every bull I’ve taken has been less than 30 yds. That is the thrill. How many times have you had a bull at 10 yards screaming at you and you don’t have a shot? Every hunt? Muzzle loaders are devastating, much more so than any bow. I have respect for bow hunters, they can hunt more often than me.
 
Back To Recurve Bows!

Back To HAWKENS SmokePoles!

Back To Lever Action Rifles & Absolutely NO F'N Scopes!

We Are All Guilty Of Some of it or All of it!

Then Make 47+ More Changes & You Might Help The Deer Herd Recover!

HELL-F'N-RIGHT!
 
54523F05-F641-47E0-8717-F63F0D391587.png

I was trying to read through the divisions minutes and came across this. Now I’m confused, Did they ban scopes on muzzleloaders?
 
Back To Recurve Bows!

Back To HAWKENS SmokePoles!

Back To Lever Action Rifles & Absolutely NO F'N Scopes!

We Are All Guilty Of Some of it or All of it!

Then Make 47+ More Changes & You Might Help The Deer Herd Recover!

HELL-F'N-RIGHT!
Without a doubt would probably see more quality bucks in a short time. Harder for people to knock over every 2pt that shows itself in the daylight, with traditional equipment.
 
I just had foot surgery so I'm bored and recently re-read (fourth time) Sheep and Sheep Hunting by Jack O'Connor. Most guys on here probably don't have a clue who he was, but he shaped my hunting framework. He was a master sheep hunter and most often used a 4X Weaver scope shooting mostly under 300 yards for his sheep and he believed in stalking as close as he could before pulling a trigger.
I also read a new book (to me) Sheep Hunts One Man's Journey's into the High Country by Paul C Carter. His hunts are more in our era and somewhere along his path in sheep hunting he decided to hunt most of them with an open sighted muzzleloader. Even when scopes were made legal he stuck with open sights because of the challenge and now he has 2 sheep slams with that primitive rig. Both of these fine gentlemen also hunted lots of other game besides sheep, but it appears to me that sheep hunting seemed to give them an unusual reverence for their quarry.
I have great respect for all ethical hunters (regardless of hunting method) as long as they respect the game and the challenge more than the process and the ego strokes they get by taking the trophy's.
To me too much of today's hunting is about the pursuit of outrageous racks boasting gaudy numbers and flashy social media posts.
I believe we have painted ourselves into a corner with technological advances and it's going to be an ugly messy picture when we have to walk ourselves out of it.
 
So.....let's shift gears here from trail cams and discuss what is coming next before it gets here.

I used to be a die hard archer, it was my obsession. I shot competitively year round on leagues and state teams, and I had a 277 average out of a perfect 300 range score.....I was pretty damn good at indoor freestyle unlimited, and shot very well on outdoor ranges as well.
I gave up archery hunting after I lost a giant P&Y buck on the Henry’s, it destroyed my confidence in my equipment and was the last straw. That loss wasn't my first with a bow, but it would definitely be my last.
I took up guiding to fill the void of those September memories on the mountain, and did it very successfully for over 20 years.

Since then I have taken up muzzleloaders.
Started out with a Hawkin kit gun I put together and killed a few deer with it.
Then the inlines came out....how could I say "No" to something that could improve my range and success, right?
1x scope and I was deadly with it out past 100 yards.
Then came the allowance of variables. Boom....here came a Vortex 4x12 "Tactical".....now I'm popping milk jugs at 300 yards with ease and have killed mature bucks from my ATV!

Having shared that history, I have never once used a trail camera, not even with the outfitter I worked for....I don't even own one.

So.....here we are facing other possible changes to weaponry.
I will be the first to say that I will gladly remove my Vortex off my Muzzy, go back to open sights only and get back to "Hunting" versus "Killing".
I will gladly adopt old "archery
style techniques" of sitting in ground blinds, tree stands and spot and stalk situations with my muzzleloader, and guess what.....I'll probably be more successful because I'll actually have to "Hunt"!

So you want to ask, "Slam, you don't need a law to remove your scope, why don't you just do it anyway?"
My answer......"Because I legally don't have to" ?‍♂️
Slam I'm hard on you because I know you can take it. My only doubt is I don't believe you were ever a hardcore archery hunter. If you were you'd still be one.
 
Slam I'm hard on you because I know you can take it. My only doubt is I don't believe you were ever a hardcore archery hunter. If you were you'd still be one.
Thank you, I appreciate you more than it may seem, and regardless of how it may appear on these threads, I do enjoy the banter.

I gave up my archery life because my passion for mule deer went beyond my guilt of wasting them occasionally.
I'm not blaming all archers, I am solely blaming me.....I no longer trusted "Me".
I don't think anyone should judge me for that.
 
I guess I’m a guy who likes options or choice. Because I don’t think everyone is a “fit in this box” kind of hunter or individual.
What I mean by that is my eyes are not nearly what they used to be. I’m 43 years old. Yes I should make a trip to the eye doctor.
However,
With a variable scope currently sitting on top of my inline CVA accura V2, I still only feel comfortable out to 200 yards. Besides the fact that my current loads energy is questionable past that distance already.
Regardless of what my guns capabilities are, I stick to what I feel comfortable with and I’d even say my description above is probably the norm. But I like the variable scope for two reasons:
1- helps with my deteriorating eye sight
2- I like ethical kill shots and not wounding animals. Which honestly crossed my mind continuously when I used to pack a 1x
I’ve never archery hunted so I can’t speak for that.
Also I will ask the question in regards to changing muzzleloader laws….if the law states that you have to load the muzzy bullet and powder down the barrel, will that solve the long range muzzy problem? I ask because I don’t know much about them.
 
Let’s ban scopes on muzzleloaders and rangefinding and sliders sights on bows. I personally own each of these technologies but I am willing to sacrifice to help give the animals a chance. That takes care of muzzleloaders and archery.

What I am not as sure about is what changes you can make that will help limit long range rifle technologies. What say the rest of you?

Bessy, are you still sobbing over that Nightforce scope on your muzzy? Are you still preaching “Hell-Right?”

Hawkeye
 
Last edited:
LMMFAO Hawkeye!

If This Scope I Have on My SmokePole is a Nightforce I'm Not Gonna BRAGG on it!:D

Yes,And It's Not HELL-RIGHT!

It's HELL-F'N-RIGHT!


Let’s ban scopes on muzzleloaders and rangefinding and sliders sights on bows. I personally own each of these technologies but I am willing to sacrifice to help give the animals a chance. That takes care of muzzleloaders and archery.

What I am not as sure about is what changes you can make that will help limit long range rifle technologies. What say the rest of you?

Besst, are you still sobbing over that Nightforce scope on you muzzy? Are you still preaching “Hell-Right?”

Hawkeye
 
If weapon bans/limitations don’t decrease the harvest rates then what’s the point of them?

I’m all about restrictions and changes if it means more opportunity and that means decreased harvest rates. If the muzzy success % was the same before and after scopes then going back to 1x or less scopes isn’t going to improve anything.

it’s like when folks argue to move the LE rifle elk hunt out of the rut, it won’t change anything when the harvest rate on the mid and late hunts are about the same as the early rut hunt.

I think adopting Idaho’s strict primitive muzzy rules could actually move the needle and decrease harvest rates to a level we could increase tags.

archery success rates are already pretty low but if ya really want to drop those rates all ya have to do is make a rule that archers have to pull back and release their strings with their fingers. That simple rule would cut the effective range of a bow by half.
 
I’m all about restrictions and changes if it means more opportunity and that means decreased harvest rates. If the muzzy success % was the same before and after scopes then going back to 1x or less scopes isn’t going to improve anything.

Now that scopes of all kinds have been banned on muzzleloaders, we unfortunately will not see any sort of increase in tag numbers.

Airborne, you are exactly right. What changes are we gonna see in the long run? Basically nothing.

I however think the odds of drawing muzzy tags are gonna go up this year now that it’s open sights only for muzzy’s. What do you think?
 
Anybody wanna make a Bet?

I'll Bet if they do Ban Scopes on Muzzle loaders!

They'll Be a New UTAH Model For Sale Soon that'll be just as Deadly!

Maybe They Could Call it the New TARDville Model?
 
Anybody wanna make a Bet?

I'll Bet if they do Ban Scopes on Muzzle loaders!

They'll Be a New UTAH Model For Sale Soon that'll be just as Deadly!

Maybe They Could Call it the New TARDville Model?
Elk what do you mean IF? Didn’t you read post #6. The wildlife board already banned all scopes on muzzleloaders including 1x and red dots.
 
If we are simply try to restrict weapons so they are less efficient and to “put the hunt back in the hunt” then there are plenty of ways to do that for all weapon types. We just need to step back 30 or 40 years and walk in their shoe as hunters.

Archery - no electronics on bows, no sliders or fiber optic for sights, no mechanical releases, no hand held electronic range finders.

Muzzleloader - back to side locks with open sight and no fiber optic on the open sight, no hand held electronic range finder.

Rifle - back to a no great than a 4x scope and no hand held electronic range finders.

I have all the fancy stuff on my bow, muzzleloader, and rifle because I can but I would gladly remove it to give the animals a chance if everyone was reset back on the same playing field.

Same with baiting and game cameras, I occasionally put out mineral and a few cameras and it was fun but I have no problem with them trying to get some of this under control.

Regulation comes when people exploit every advantage to the point other feel it is abused. Prime example, guides baiting with truck loads of apples and running hundreds of game cameras so we all get punished for the few abusers which is the world we live in. Another example, when they allowed magnified scopes on muzzleloader, the custom muzzleloaders popping up soon after advertising 500 yards… then 1000 yards… capable muzzleloaders. Then production muzzleloader manufacturing started to compete by making 500+ yard muzzleloader available at affordable prices for all. If the change to put magnified scope on muzzleloader resulted in everyone in the field still limiting and taking shot less then 200 yards we would not even be discussing this subject but when you go to YouTube and see muzzleloader kill shots on Antelope at 705 yards, regulation is soon to follow.

Just my thoughts, have fun.
 
Last edited:
That’s a good point. LR muzzleloaders were basically unheard of of until after scopes we’re allowed.
 
The easy solution would be a stamp for each piece of technology. Draw a muzzleloader tag and want to have it topped with a 3x9? 250.00 bucks, want a 6x24 power scope $600.00.
Then do something good with the money, thinning, winter rangeland improvement, predatory bounties etc.
 
Anybody wanna make a Bet?

I'll Bet if they do Ban Scopes on Muzzle loaders!

They'll Be a New UTAH Model For Sale Soon that'll be just as Deadly!

Maybe They Could Call it the New TARDville Model?

Gunwerks already figured it out for Colorado so they will double their sells on these sights if Utah bans all scopes on muzzleloaders. I hung on to my 1x scope figuring that this day would come after witnessing the naïve comments from the WB chairman when they past the regulation to allow any magnified scope to be placed on muzzleloaders. I think a 1x scope is a good compromise for the guys with aging eyes but to not give much advantage in comparison to open or peep sight set ups. You can’t shoot what you can’t see is true for anyone that has tried to find a deer at 300 yards through a 1x scope. ? Peep sight shooter may be able to make that shot but it would be tough with the 1x scope with a normal duplex. For a $1000 you can buy the new age peep sight. I’m not sure that regulations will ever be able the keep up with innovations and technologies as you have pointed out. Someone will solve the problem or find the loophole around regulations and make money or have the advantage along the way, until new regulations stops it from continuing. That is the world we live in today. Hunting is more sophisticated than it needs to be and our RAC and WB get tied up in fixing all the stuff we create for them to fix before they even get to get to the real issues impacting wildlife management. We are good at bogging down the boat and shifting the focus. Just my thoughts.

23D7FF55-5CDC-4E49-936A-A689F88D0CEC.png
 
Season dates on trail cameras and now pulling scopes off of muzzleloader I’m getting excited put the hunt back in hunting I think this is definitely a good start….

I feel like the board/ division is moving in the right direction especially with all of the collaring data and all of the habitat work that’s being done.

Patient now fellow hunters It won’t be fixed over night give it time.
 
Anybody wanna make a Bet?

I'll Bet if they do Ban Scopes on Muzzle loaders!

They'll Be a New UTAH Model For Sale Soon that'll be just as Deadly!

Maybe They Could Call it the New TARDville Model?
thanks two pt I was just going to post that.
 
You Boys That Ain't Tried 1X Scopes Might wanna Check in to them before You Think You're Gettin Something Great!

I Might Be A Blind Bastard!

But I Can See Better with Just My Blind Eyes Than I Can Looking through a WORTHLESS 1X Scope!

It's a Dis-Advantage!

The Average TARD Eye is about 1.5 Power!

I Expect We'll See Where Some Think the 1X Scopes Are Worth Something again!

TOTAL TRASH!
 
Damm Slam. We want and need back to having a bow in your hands. There have been very hard days and situations , disappointments and failures during my 50 yrs of shooting bows. It’s sucks sometimes but it’s the most rewarding and enjoyable hunting for me.

Come on back to it brother!!!!
 
This is accurate haha. I’ve always believed the human eye can see greater than 1x ? by the sounds of it I don’t think they are even going to let 1x scopes ride. Guess we will have to see.
You Boys That Ain't Tried 1X Scopes Might wanna Check in to them before You Think You're Gettin Something Great!

I Might Be A Blind Bastard!

But I Can See Better with Just My Blind Eyes Than I Can Looking through a WORTHLESS 1X Scope!

It's a Dis-Advantage!

The Average TARD Eye is about 1.5 Power!

I Expect We'll See Where Some Think the 1X Scopes Are Worth Something again!

TOTAL TRASH!
 
Bess is exactly right.
A 1x scope is less than our natural eyesight and makes the target further away.

They need to make a 1.5 (or whatever the actual vision really is) scope or just stay open sights.
I'm actually looking forward to "bowhunting with my muzzy" again, it'll make me a better hunter versus a better killer.
 
Hey PUNK?

I Think My Natural Power of Vision is 9X!:D

Bess is exactly right.
A 1x scope is less than our natural eyesight and makes the target further away.

They need to make a 1.5 (or whatever the actual vision really is) scope or just stay open sights.
I'm actually looking forward to "bowhunting with my muzzy" again, it'll make me a better hunter versus a better killer.
 
Seems to be a lot of poor vision out there with all these 12x and higher scopes than see further the the gun can even shoot!
Hey my muzzy only has a little 18x on it ? except when she visits CO. Honestly love my open sight set up and look forward to keeping it on the gun for Utah.
 
Living in Idaho and enjoying hunting with a muzzleloader, I find all of your arguments enjoyable and entertaining. We live with our restrictions just fine:

Loaded from the muzzle only
Loose black powder or substitutes, no smokeless
No sabots or jacketed bullets, all lead conicals or round balls
40 cal. for deer and antelope
50 cal. for elk and trophy species
Percussion only, exposed to the weather. No 209 or breech fired ignition
Open or peep sights, no electronics on ANY weapon
* Latest change - From non-magnifying, to Low power (less than 4X) scopes allowed for doctor approved and Dept verified disability.
 
View attachment 64421
I was trying to read through the divisions minutes and came across this. Now I’m confused, Did they ban scopes on muzzleloaders?
Are you sure that’s not just one of the rac meetings? I’m pretty sure that’s not the board meeting, (the trail cam motion passed 4-3 not 9-1) in the board meeting they just proposed that they look at the harvest data between when no variable scopes were allowed and compare it too when they made them legal, and then go from there, they haven’t been banned yet, but they are looking in to it.
 
Are you sure that’s not just one of the rac meetings? I’m pretty sure that’s not the board meeting, (the trail cam motion passed 4-3 not 9-1) in the board meeting they just proposed that they look at the harvest data between when no variable scopes were allowed and compare it too when they made them legal, and then go from there, they haven’t been banned yet, but they are looking in to it.
Yeah it’s not a thing yet. It’s just up for consideration. I have a contact in the DNR that is one of the main people over technologies. He says so far it’s just talk… but there has been quite a bit of talk about it lately. So we will see.
 
So by limiting technology and shortening the "effective range" of killing animals is the answer? What are we trying to Answer? What is the Question? I'm becoming more confused of what really is going on.

I think the real question we need to understand first is

"Why do I Hunt?"

There are so many answers to this question.

Example Answers:

I hunt for food. Well it doesn't matter what you limit me too, I will have my opportunity to fill my tag. Big Buck, Medium Buck, Small Buck. Whatever shows first.

I hunt for Trophy, I will find a way to harvest trophy animals if that's my passion. It's how we got to our technology issue we have now. We will just find new and different ways, more time in the field, more Help in the field, Paying Guides, Following Guides, Poaching, etc.

I hunt for Fun, I will go out and be in the field still and I will decide what is Fun, Harvest, No Harvest, Getting Drunk, Dancing around the Fire Naked, Whatever. It's different for everyone.

There's just so many different reasons people hunt.

So, by making these types of changes, does it really fix things or is it just a way to secretly get people who don't hunt the way those making the decisions to just go away?

Some people were dead set that going with "Option 2" was the answer, the answer to what, I really don't know now because look at where we are now.

Do away with Statewide archery, that will help crowding. People still complain about crowding. So where was the logic or is it just social and catering to a certain few.

Honestly I just get more and more confused to what really is the problem and the answer. I thought it was to increase the overall animal numbers so everyone could hunt the way the want to and to not decimate the resource so we can have this privilege year in and year out.

We have made so many changes to hunting since I became old enough to hunt and It seems nothing has worked because we are still trying to fix the "Hypothetical Problems"

I'm Confused
 
As Per Par As Per Forever!

They Are & Will Be Making Changes that Will Not Increase The Population of the Deer Herd!

We've Got To Get Back to a Healthy Deer Herd!

You Guys Have Heard Me Bittching for Years/Ever Since it Started about the BS Buck To Doe Ratio's Management!

We've All Gotta GIVE!

With The Deer Herd in the Shape it's In?

Will Banning Trail Cams Make a Big Difference?

Not Only No!

But HELL NO!

Some Say it's a Start,To Each His Own!

But It's not The First Nor The Only Move That Shoulda Been Made!

There Are So Many Reasons Why The Deer Herd is Where it's at that it's Basically UN-FIXABLE because You Can't Satisfy Every JOE BLOW while Trying To Fix it!

The Changes Too Fix it Would be So Drastic Most Hunters Would Be BAWLING Like Babies!

I'd Like To Say Nothing is gonna Change!

But Stick around!

It'll Get Worse!
 
Again....the tech ban isn't meant to bring deer herds back, it's putting the hunt back in hunting and drawing a line in the sand that should have ben drawn a long time ago.

Does bring deer herds back, and those issues are being studied and implemented.
 
You Boys That Ain't Tried 1X Scopes Might wanna Check in to them before You Think You're Gettin Something Great!

I Might Be A Blind Bastard!

But I Can See Better with Just My Blind Eyes Than I Can Looking through a WORTHLESS 1X Scope!

It's a Dis-Advantage!

The Average TARD Eye is about 1.5 Power!

I Expect We'll See Where Some Think the 1X Scopes Are Worth Something again!

TOTAL TRASH!
Not if you wear bifocals.
 
With Presbyopia in my dominant eye, it will not flex or focus on either sight or the target itself. The non-magnifying scope at least offers me enough adjustment to see the crosshairs!!!
 
Again....the tech ban isn't meant to bring deer herds back, it's putting the hunt back in hunting and drawing a line in the sand that should have ben drawn a long time ago.

Does bring deer herds back, and those issues are being studied and implemented.

Disagree, to a point. Does alone can't bring numbers back, you need strong genes from the bucks that are getting shot more effectively as well.

Also, it should never be up to an assembly of hunters expressing their opinion to direct how you define the "hunt" in hunting.

Be careful how you use the words "putting the hunt back into hunting". Rifle hunters will be forced to use lever action open sights going foward...
 
I'm starting to get it, I think.

This World wants to tell me how to do what I Love and choose to do... since it's not about the health of the herd which has always been my #1 priority in hunting.

It's About control!!! and if you fall on the side that hates the rules, you are against it, and if you fall on the side that like's it, you will favor it.

I get it now, we are Democrats that call ourselves Republicans and don't really know our heads from our Asses!!!

It's not about fixing a damn thing!!! It's Jealousy!!!
 
Last edited:
I,m starting to get it, I think.

This World wants to tell me how to do what I Love and choose to do... since it's not about the health of the herd which has always been my #1 priority in hunting.

It's About control!!! and if you fall on the side that hates the rules, you are against it, and if you fall on the side that like's it, you will favor it.

I get it now, we are Democrats that call ourselves Republicans and don't really know our heads from our Asses!!!

It's not about fixing a damn thing!!! It's Jealousy!!!
This is straight jealously, we need units managed for deer and units managed for elk who gives a rats ass how they are killed
Put a carrying capacity for said unit and a acceptable mortality and close when reached even if a damn tree falls on one .
So much boo who on this subject it’s ridiculous. Finger pointing but of children not real proud of the hunting community after watching this **** show on this site
 
I,m starting to get it, I think.

This World wants to tell me how to do what I Love and choose to do... since it's not about the health of the herd which has always been my #1 priority in hunting.

It's About control!!! and if you fall on the side that hates the rules, you are against it, and if you fall on the side that like's it, you will favor it.

I get it now, we are Democrats that call ourselves Republicans and don't really know our heads from our Asses!!!

It's not about fixing a damn thing!!! It's Jealousy!!!
Sadly hunting has became no difference than today's political world.
Divide all hunters by declaring my side is the true hunters and if you don't agree with me and hunt different than me then that means you are just a shooter.
No difference than the argument about baiting if you did not agree with the side that wanted to ban baiting then it meant you was a unethical hunter.
I personally could care less if trail cameras are illegal or not, I have never used trail cameras to hunt deer or elk and probably never would, but this divide and con-qer by deeming the other side as evil just because they do not agree with you will ultimately be the downfall of us all.
If you only agree with making trail cameras illegal because you believe it is wrong to hunt that way, then you (in my opinion) are wrong.
Just remember we all do something others do not agree with.
 
Cam ban been out for a week. Dudes already trying to find gray area.

Bait ban, dudes try to find gray area.

It's the same small percentage, constantly trying to find the gray area.

Why do I hunt? I like being outdoors.

If slingshots mean more time chasing game, I'm in. If loin clothes do, you all are seeing man bush.

I'm a HUNTER. I'm not a shooter, killer, IG Fame chasers, etc

I want the MAXIMUM time spent HUNTING.

Too many dudes forgot that hunting means PURSUING.

Too many videos, shows, posts that made them think maximum inches is the point.



Deer meat costs thousands per pound. Elk the same.

NO ONE hunts strictly for deer meat. Ain't enough to feed a family for 2 months. An elk, double that.

If I can get 6months using a dirt clod, or spit ball, I'm in.

"Quality", "success", "got er done", is 200% ego.
 
Hey Hossy?

You Ever Clue Ms Hossy in on what the Wild Game Meat Really Costs?

I Still Hear JOKERS Today say:

I Hunt Because I Need The Meat!

I Shot The PISSCUTTER Because I Needed The Meat!

They Are Either Lieing!

Or They've Never Added Up What It Costs!
 
Last edited:
Hey Hossy?

You Ever Clue Ms Hossy in on what the Wild Game Meat Really Costs?

I Still Hear JOKERS Today say:

I Hunt Because I Need The Meat!

I Shot The PISSCUTTER Because I Needed The Meat!

They Are Either Lieing!

Or They've Never Added Up What It Costs!


Mama is an accountant. I can't lie fast enough ?
 
Elk what do you mean IF? Didn’t you read post #6. The wildlife board already banned all scopes on muzzleloaders including 1x and red dots.
According to the readout on the dwr website, that was a vote clarifying powder and bullet must be loaded through the muzzle. Doesn't say anything about scopes being banned.
 
This thread has been an interesting read, but...
IMO I believe the point is more about restoring principles of fair chase to the hunt. During my 55+ years of hunting w/archery (both recurve & compound), muzzy (Hawken percussion), and rifle throughout the west, including UT, I'm afraid there's been a slow erosion of fair chase esp. during the past 30 yrs. The onset of modern technology in all it's forms has diminished the concept of fair chase - and (IMO) esp. in the world of muzzy hunting. There is now a generation of hunters who have bought into the approach that "anything goes" as long as it's legal. Am I old school? Yes! Am I wrong ? Maybe - but that's my opinion.
 
According to the readout on the dwr website, that was a vote clarifying powder and bullet must be loaded through the muzzle. Doesn't say anything about scopes being banned.
There was absolutely nothing passed concerning muzzle loaders by the WB

Post #6 is the results of individual RAC meetings.

Only the southern region recommended eliminating scopes. It wasn't even on the agenda.
 
This thread has been an interesting read, but...
IMO I believe the point is more about restoring principles of fair chase to the hunt. During my 55+ years of hunting w/archery (both recurve & compound), muzzy (Hawken percussion), and rifle throughout the west, including UT, I'm afraid there's been a slow erosion of fair chase esp. during the past 30 yrs. The onset of modern technology in all it's forms has diminished the concept of fair chase - and (IMO) esp. in the world of muzzy hunting. There is now a generation of hunters who have bought into the approach that "anything goes" as long as it's legal. Am I old school? Yes! Am I wrong ? Maybe - but that's my opinion.

And that's part of the problem. Others defining for someone else what constitutes "fair chase".

Fair chase is a subjective concept.
 
2022 Crossbow - 505 fps. Hey, it's still archery, and just as hard as always!!! Riiiighttt.

82763CDB-8A7F-49D2-BEEE-151AD1D18DC8_1_201_a.jpeg
 
I've tried saying it a dozen times, we are compounding our own problems by chasing technological advancements.
And I'm not even referring to weapons.

There's one reason and one reason only for technology in hunting and that is to make it easier.


As it gets tougher to find trophy class bucks, the technology escalates, it's a vicious cycle.

There's not a trophy animal alive in this state that doesn't already have a nickname and is on next years hit lists and the majority of those already have down-payments on them.

And to make matters worse, we're losing does and fawns which means we're taking more off the top than we are bring in on the bottom to replace what we take.

We've got to work on both ends if we want a good center.
 
I've tried saying it a dozen times, we are compounding our own problems by chasing technological advancements.
And I'm not even referring to weapons.

There's one reason and one reason only for technology in hunting and that is to make it easier.


As it gets tougher to find trophy class bucks, the technology escalates, it's a vicious cycle.

This!
There's not a trophy animal alive in this state that doesn't already have a nickname and is on next years hit lists and the majority of those already have down-payments on them.

And to make matters worse, we're losing does and fawns which means we're taking more off the top than we are bring in on the bottom to replace what we take.

We've got to work on both ends if we want a good center.
 
And that's part of the problem. Others defining for someone else what constitutes "fair chase".

Fair chase is a subjective concept.
It’s not subjective at all. A “hunter” can can take any “legal” advantage and thinks he is a hunter. Maybe he doesn’t know any better, or maybe he doesn’t care about how he achieves his kill. It like any job or trade. Some take pride in what they do and others don’t care as long as they get paid. Some “hunters” will never know the satisfaction of a perfect stalk and hunt. That hunter has a personal pride in a job well done. There is so much more than a “kill” that many will never understand to their own loss, Many would not care anyway.
 
It’s not subjective at all. A “hunter” can can take any “legal” advantage and thinks he is a hunter. Maybe he doesn’t know any better, or maybe he doesn’t care about how he achieves his kill. It like any job or trade. Some take pride in what they do and others don’t care as long as they get paid. Some “hunters” will never know the satisfaction of a perfect stalk and hunt. That hunter has a personal pride in a job well done. There is so much more than a “kill” that many will never understand to their own loss, Many would not care anyway.

Doesn't matter what those other hunters will or will not experience. Nobody is stopping someone from going bare bones with a smokepole and the inherent problem is taking away to "level the playing field" to satisfy their own preferences.
 
So because Boone and Crockett says so, it is so.
I never knew that now we have a governing body.

Boone and Crockett is probably the number one reason for the trophy hunting.
[/QUOTE

Not sure where you've been. The North American model has been around, quite a while
 
Bearpaw Outfitters

Experience world class hunting for mule deer, elk, cougar, bear, turkey, moose, sheep and more.

Wild West Outfitters

Hunt the big bulls, bucks, bear and cats in southern Utah. Your hunt of a lifetime awaits.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, shiras moose and mountain lions.

Shane Scott Outfitting

Quality trophy hunting in Utah. Offering FREE Utah drawing consultation. Great local guides.

Utah Big Game Outfitters

Specializing in bighorn sheep, mule deer, elk, mountain goat, lions, bears & antelope.

Apex Outfitters

We offer experienced guides who hunt Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, Sheep, Bison, Goats, Cougar, and Bear.

Urge 2 Hunt

We offer high quality hunts on large private ranches around the state, with landowner vouchers.

Allout Guiding & Outfitting

Offering high quality mule deer, elk, bear, cougar and bison hunts in the Book Cliffs and Henry Mtns.

Lickity Split Outfitters

General season and LE fully guided hunts for mule deer, elk, moose, antelope, lion, turkey, bear and coyotes.

Back
Top Bottom