90/10 not going away...

Looking at the Task force members, one would think 90/10 is still a few years out for deer and elk. ;)
 
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Not sure how that works when applying for all species.
Hunting was fine before you were born, and I'll let you in on a news flash, it will be fine once you're worm chit.

You've done very little to help, that I've seen, other than help yourself to others points and scheming ways to get another tag. Same old thing with you, can't wait to see where/who you beg for points from this year. If you really cared about youth hunters you would wait your turn instead of pushing them to the curb every year.

Wish my nephews lived closer, they would have enjoyed MLK day today here in Wyoming...I know I sure did:

View attachment 65458

Biggest male cutthroat I can recall catching, 22 inches:

View attachment 65459

Two quick fish...all of 5 minutes apart:

View attachment 65460

Don't have to have points or even draw a tag...these must be the good old days...
Buzz.
The more I read of your opinions and the bragging you do. The more I'm inclined to support anti hunting organizations in Wyoming. Are you trying to be a spokesperson for them ?
I had the thought you were for hunters.
 
Buzz.
The more I read of your opinions and the bragging you do. The more I'm inclined to support anti hunting organizations in Wyoming. Are you trying to be a spokesperson for them ?
I had the thought you were for hunters.
You definitely confirmed my suspicions. Unintelligent and Ignorant hunters are far worse than the anti-hunting community. Sad…..
 
Buzz.
The more I read of your opinions and the bragging you do. The more I'm inclined to support anti hunting organizations in Wyoming. Are you trying to be a spokesperson for them ?
I had the thought you were for hunters.
Just a thought: imagine you're a Wyoming resident reading newguy's, newhunter's and jims post's on MM.

There, does that explain anything?
 
You definitely confirmed my suspicions. Unintelligent and Ignorant hunters are far worse than the anti-hunting community. Sad…..
I agree with the your statement. Not sure if you think it's me or Buzz that you think is the "Unintelligent and Ignorant hunter" ??
From the personal messages/conversations I've been sent on this tread/form I'm thinking it's Buzz. Until I started receiving them I didn't know how many people felt this way and didn't want to post about it.
 
Just a thought: imagine you're a Wyoming resident reading newguy's, newhunter's and jims post's on MM.

There, does that explain anything?
Are you saying Wyoming residents hadn't made there decisions about non resident hunters before newguy's, newhunter and jims posts ?
 
Just a thought: imagine you're a Wyoming resident reading newguy's, newhunter's and jims post's on MM.

There, does that explain anything?
Wait, are they all the same people? You guys have so many handles I can't keep up!!
 
Funny thing, I may be a resident by this time next year.

Mark
May? Either you will be or not. If you’re not living there now the answer is no. Good grief.

I’m sure you miss the days before the internet where you could go on a good rant and people wouldn’t argue with you because there was a possibility you were right. But now all it takes a a google search to see through the BS.

Funny thing, guys still think they can get on here and BS everyone….
 
Yeah, Wyoming is very bad value and screwing NR for sheep. That’s why they issue more Sheep and Moose tags than any other state in the lower 48 and more Moose tags than all the other states combined. Such a bad value. In 2018 they issued 50 NR sheep tags. Even Randy needs to learn that bad value..…

If my numbers are correct, I believe Maine in 2020 (not seeing '21 stats) issued more Moose tags than Wyoming did to NR, 250 vs 62. I don't follow closely I could be off though.
 
May? Either you will be or not. If you’re not living there now the answer is no. Good grief.

I’m sure you miss the days before the internet where you could go on a good rant and people wouldn’t argue with you because there was a possibility you were right. But now all it takes a a google search to see through the BS.

Funny thing, guys still think they can get on here and BS everyone….
Fair enough, just trying to be funny.

Mark
 
If my numbers are correct, I believe Maine in 2020 (not seeing '21 stats) issued more Moose tags than Wyoming did to NR, 250 vs 62. I don't follow closely I could be off though.
A whole separate subspecies. Go find a Western state with Shiras moose hunting that offers anywhere near the NR tags Wyoming offers. I should have clarified Shiras but a quick look at B&C Moose will confirm it for you, no other state is anywhere even close, same goes for the current 25% Giveaway of NR sheep licenses. With 90/10 it will still be considerable, even with a 60% cutback just not the great giveaway sweepstakes it once was.
 
A whole separate subspecies. Go find a Western state with Shiras moose hunting that offers anywhere near the NR tags Wyoming offers. I should have clarified Shiras but a quick look at B&C Moose will confirm it for you, no other state is anywhere even close, same goes for the current 25% Giveaway of NR sheep licenses. With 90/10 it will still be considerable, even with a 60% cutback just not the great giveaway sweepstakes it once was.
Who would want to hunt a WY baby moose? ?. Maine offers better odds anyways, but comes down to what you want to hunt

WY offers sheep tags to NR to pay for their fish and game, if WY offered only ~5-10 tags, who the heck would lay out $150/point then way till their 90-100 years old to die? Double edge sword, hard to have your cake and eat it too.
 
Who would want to hunt a WY baby moose? ?. Maine offers better odds anyways, but comes down to what you want to hunt

WY offers sheep tags to NR to pay for their fish and game, if WY offered only ~5-10 tags, who the heck would lay out $150/point then way till their 90-100 years old to die? Double edge sword, hard to have your cake and eat it too.
Exactly. Why not 100/0? Anyone want to answer that one?
 
Who would want to hunt a WY baby moose? ?. Maine offers better odds anyways, but comes down to what you want to hunt

WY offers sheep tags to NR to pay for their fish and game, if WY offered only ~5-10 tags, who the heck would lay out $150/point then way till their 90-100 years old to die? Double edge sword, hard to have your cake and eat it too.
Your logic makes perfect sense but people seemed to be lined up to spend $150 on worthless sheep points. 2000 people bought their first point last year. If I had to guess I would say that they use to be very reliant on nonresident tag revenue, but now it’s not nearly as important because they get so much money from nonresident points. Again Just a guess.

Mark
 
Wyoming Residents have it made.
Quick comparison to 3 other states with a point system will show the number of resident sheep tags per X amount of resident hunters (applicants).
UT - 1 tag per 117 applicants
CO - 1 tag per 78 applicants
MT - 1 tag per 53 applicants
WY - 1 tag per 43 applicants

If 90/10 goes through
WY - 1 tag per 36 applicants

Even with the system as is Wyoming residents get more tags per applicants than the other states.
 
WY offers sheep tags to NR to pay for their fish and game, if WY offered only ~5-10 tags, who the heck would lay out $150/point then way till their 90-100 years old to die? Double edge sword, hard to have your cake and eat it too.
Obviously thousands do every year. It’s not going to be 5-10 sheep tags, likely more like about 15-20, though Wyoming should do like many other states and if an area doesn’t have 10 resident tags then NO non-resident tags should be allowed, then we’d be in line with what most surrounding states offer us as Wyoming non-residents. People like to hunt Shiras moose as it’s in the West where most of the NR hunters are from ie closer to where they live. If we want to hunt big moose we don’t mess around with little Maine moose we go to Alaska and hunt the full Monty……..:alien::devilish::alien::devilish:
 
That's my question. Why stop at 10% if money doesn't matter. If there is not a significant economic effect of going from 20 to 10, then wouldn't there be little if you go from 20 to 0?
Honestly, is this a serious question? As it's been mentioned before, there is an approximate $200,000 cut in license revenue(not counting possible loss in PP money) going 90/10 with the big five.
Most agree, loss of PP money wont be significant enough to matter and may very well be no change in the long run once bonus points are implemented.
 
The price for a nonres sheep and moose pref pts currently is $150 each and the price for a resident pref pt is a mere $7. 150 divided by 7 = 21. It takes 21 residents to = 1 nonres in pref pt revenue for sheep and moose!

Here's the current trend in nonres applying for Wyo sheep units. This doesn't include nonres that apply just for pref pts:

2021 - 3120 nonres
2019 - 2704 nonres
2015 - 2392 nonres
2010 - 1872 nonres

In around 12 years the number of nonres applicants for nonres sheep doubled. Obviously, that means the WG&F pref pt revenue doubled in around 12 years.

What a lot of res don't seem to grasp is that the long-term trend in the number of nonres applicants above is not going to continue with 90/10. Currently the trend is an increase in nonres applicants each year with new nonres willing to fork out $150/year to apply rather than drop out of the sheep draws....similarly for moose and other pref pt species.

With 90/10 and 1/2 the tags issued to nonres you can pretty much guarantee that fewer nonres will be willing to fork out $150/year and fewer nonres will be willing to start applying and buying pref pts.
 
Obviously thousands do every year. It’s not going to be 5-10 sheep tags, likely more like about 15-20, though Wyoming should do like many other states and if an area doesn’t have 10 resident tags then NO non-resident tags should be allowed, then we’d be in line with what most surrounding states offer us as Wyoming non-residents. People like to hunt Shiras moose as it’s in the West where most of the NR hunters are from ie closer to where they live. If we want to hunt big moose we don’t mess around with little Maine moose we go to Alaska and hunt the full Monty……..:alien::devilish::alien::devilish:
If you applied the same WY standard to AK as you propose, NR couldn't hunt there for most species, if not all of them. In fact everyone should petition AK to increase the cost 10-50x only for NR, eliminate all otc tags to align with "other western states", make every species OIL for NR, and force everyone except those over the age of 60 to wait 70+ years for a tag. Seems fair to me.
Not a great start for the new keyboard warrior.
Post count = iq?
 
If you applied the same WY standard to AK as you propose, NR couldn't hunt there for most species, if not all of them. In fact everyone should petition AK to increase the cost 10-50x only for NR, eliminate all otc tags to align with "other western states", make every species OIL for NR, and force everyone except those over the age of 60 to wait 70+ years for a tag. Seems fair to me.

Post count = iq?
Do you even know Alaska’s system for sheep? Here I’ll help you out. Just to apply buy a $160 license, then application fees. If you are successful you MUST hire a guide. You’re right, maybe we should adopt Alaska standards in Wyoming and for every NR to go fully guided. LMAO.
 
Do you even know Alaska’s system for sheep? Here I’ll help you out. Just to apply buy a $160 license, then application fees. If you are successful you MUST hire a guide. You’re right, maybe we should adopt Alaska standards in Wyoming and for every NR to go fully guided. LMAO.

I know a thing or two about AK, your post makes it clear you don't. The vast majority of NR Dall sheep are OTC, along with R. Moose are OTC for NR in most areas, no lifetime wait period feeding $150 into the slot machine every year to be disappointed. AK should prob change that, seems unfair to NR. WY already requires a guide for wilderness, same welfare just a different state, guess you forgot that. Odd how MT doesn't just across the border. The difference is how badly you can get yourself in trouble in AK vs the lower 48. I'm guessing you've never hunted in AK?

Can't complain about how another state regulates their animals to justify your WY stance.
 
I know a thing or two about AK, your post makes it clear you don't. The vast majority of NR Dall sheep are OTC, along with R. Moose are OTC for NR in most areas, no lifetime wait period feeding $150 into the slot machine every year to be disappointed. AK should prob change that, seems unfair to NR. WY already requires a guide for wilderness, same welfare just a different state, guess you forgot that. Odd how MT doesn't just across the border. The difference is how badly you can get yourself in trouble in AK vs the lower 48. I'm guessing you've never hunted in AK?

Can't complain about how another state regulates their animals to justify your WY stance.
I'm always curious why AK gets a pass on requiring guides for goat, brown bear, and dall sheep...while the high pitched whining is constant about the wilderness guide law in Wyoming.

In particular when there is a way around the Wilderness guide law for every hunter in the U.S. without paying for a guide. There is a very small select few that can get around the AK guide requirement for sheep, goat, and brown bear.

Its always been a strange dynamic to me.

As far as getting yourself in trouble hunting brown/grizzly bears...that's a joke. I've been on pronghorn hunts that were more likely to be finding yourself in trouble...and that's a fact.
 
I'm always curious why AK gets a pass on requiring guides for goat, brown bear, and dall sheep...while the high pitched whining is constant about the wilderness guide law.

Its always been a strange dynamic to me.

As are as getting yourself in trouble hunting brown/grizzly bears...that's a joke. I've been on pronghorn hunts that were more likely to finding yourself in trouble...and that's a fact.

Who gives them a pass? Alot of it is outfitter welfare right? At least for grizz/brown bear imo, too many of them as is. Kodiak outfitters really try to take the most mature, I'd be willing to bet a good majority would just shoot without knowing age/size on their first go.

From my perspective WY gets alot of heat for wilderness because literally across the border MT doesn't require it. Again, outfitter welfare?

Brown/grizz hunting is fairly easy, I was speaking of more remote sheep/goat hunting.
 
Who gives them a pass? Alot of it is outfitter welfare right? At least for grizz/brown bear imo, too many of them as is. Kodiak outfitters really try to take the most mature, I'd be willing to bet a good majority would just shoot without knowing age/size on their first go.

From my perspective WY gets alot of heat for wilderness because literally across the border MT doesn't require it. Again, outfitter welfare?

Brown/grizz hunting is fairly easy, I was speaking of more remote sheep/goat hunting.
Goat hunting off the kenai highway is high risk?

Hunting goats from a boat on Kodiak is high risk?

The only thing high risk about either of those is the seriousness of the hangover you'll have celebrating your successful hunt.

And yes, AK's guide requirement never gets 6 pages of whining on this or any other board.
 
I know a thing or two about AK, your post makes it clear you don't. The vast majority of NR Dall sheep are OTC, along with R. Moose are OTC for NR in most areas, no lifetime wait period feeding $150 into the slot machine every year to be disappointed. AK should prob change that, seems unfair to NR. WY already requires a guide for wilderness, same welfare just a different state, guess you forgot that. Odd how MT doesn't just across the border. The difference is how badly you can get yourself in trouble in AK vs the lower 48. I'm guessing you've never hunted in AK?

Can't complain about how another state regulates their animals to justify your WY stance.
Your Ignorance of sheep hunting is becoming ever apparent. Alaska issues far more tags via drawings than Wyoming does, something like over 300+ tags for sheep. In Wyoming NR only have a chance at 46, I think using last years numbers. The price for a guided sheep hunt in Alaska is now a mere 20K and add in flights, tips and extra days and all costs and it’s a mere 30K. In Wyoming you don’t need a guide outside of designated Wilderness areas and if you have a resident friend, not that hard to find as residents love helping out NR on sheep hunts so you can go up there for just the price of the horse rentals. Not so in Ak, only direct family members allowed to act as a guide. Most of the units in Wyoming aren’t even in Wilderness areas and many NR are successful even in some areas with lots of Wilderness by hunting good sheep habitat outside the wilderness boundaries, but a good 75% of the areas aren‘t even in Wilderness areas. Montana does have the unlimited tag option and that’s a good choice but for NR draw hunts I think they only gave out 8 permits last year compared to Wyoming’s more than generous 46 and even if we cut back to just 10% it will still be likely 15-20 permits.

Also, I don’t complain about Alaska or Montana’s system. As a NR, I feel grateful just for the opportunity they afford me using any rules they determine……
 
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Yeah, Wyoming is very bad value and screwing NR for sheep. That’s why they issue more Sheep and Moose tags than any other state in the lower 48 and more Moose tags than all the other states combined. Such a bad value. In 2018 they issued 50 NR sheep tags. Even Randy needs to learn that bad value..…
You are confusing quantity with value.
Did you watch the Randy Newberg video you posted ?
He never talks about value of Wyoming tags.
 
You are confusing quantity with value.
Did you watch the Randy Newberg video you posted ?
He never talks about value of Wyoming tags.
Yeah……That’s why his video is titled Wyoming the BEST VALUE. Throughout the video he keeps stating what great VALUE Wyoming offers. Are you even COHERENT? I’d explain it to you but I don’t have the Time nor the Crayons big enough for that task…….
 
Has anyone calculated the total cost for a NR tp apply, and build points for everything in WY? I believe the nonrefundable fees are now over $600. That is ridiculous. App fees, Point fees. CC fees. I think they added a higher CC fee this year? My NR app cost $1,315.08 plus point fee $52. Last year it cost me $328 to apply for sheep & moose alone (nonrefundable). If there is a new CC fee that is roughly another $100 for sheep & moose alone bringing my total to $428 just to apply for sheep nd moose. Is that correct?

I could be wrong about this years cc fee increase.
 
CC fees are getting out of hand, but it is not the states fault. They are trying to recoup fees charged by the CC company. Also I feel the up front tag cost ( which creates these larger CC fees) creates better draw odds.
 
CC fees are getting out of hand, but it is not the states fault. They are trying to recoup fees charged by the CC company. Also I feel the up front tag cost ( which creates these larger CC fees) creates better draw odds.
I definitely agree. WY is nuts with fees. Once I draw sheep & moose it will help a LOT. I dropped NV (drew 3 species) and plan to drop Utah in 4 years. I dropped AK too. I used to try to cut my yearly app/point budget to $1k, gave up, but now iwth it approaching $2k and my odds dropping like the NASDAC, I am looking to cut costs.
 
Yeah……That’s why his video is titled Wyoming the BEST VALUE. Throughout the video he keeps stating what great VALUE Wyoming offers. Are you even COHERENT? I’d explain it to you but I don’t have the Time nor the Crayons big enough for that task…….
That is not the video you that was attached wth what you where quoted. That is the video about deer, elk and antelope. This thread is about 90/10 split for sheep and moose. (Can’t remember what you post??). Follow along.
Can compare apples to oranges.
 
Wyo is nuts about nonres fees but Wyo res fees are a different matter! The price for a nonres sheep and moose pref pts currently is $150 each and the price for a resident pref pt is a mere $7. 150 divided by 7 = 21. It takes 21 residents to = 1 nonres in pref pt revenue for sheep and moose!

What's even more crazy is that Wyo res currently don't even have pref pts for antelope, deer, and elk. Every nonres pays: antelope - $31 + deer $41 + elk $51 in pref pt fees for those 3 species while res are charged $0.

Every nonres applicant that applies for antelope, deer, and elk pref pts contribute $123 in the form of pref pt revenue to the WG&F and Wyo res contribute a grand total of $0! With 90/10 for all big game species and 1/2 the tags taken from nonres it's like the WG&F is cutting their own throats!
 
Has anyone calculated the total cost for a NR tp apply, and build points for everything in WY? I believe the nonrefundable fees are now over $600. That is ridiculous.
Don, it's 877.70 in non-refundable fees (app fees, convenience fees, point fees) to apply as a NR for the 7 limited draw species and gain a point for the ones with points. This makes Wyoming the most expensive state in the west to apply in, by far. And of course any long-time applicant continues buying those high-priced points, because the future of the WY draw system is too uncertain to risk opting out and banking on just the random.
 
That is not the video you that was attached wth what you where quoted. That is the video about deer, elk and antelope. This thread is about 90/10 split for sheep and moose. (Can’t remember what you post??). Follow along.
Can compare apples to oranges.
Randy Newberg knows VALUE. Many other hunters recognize the VALUE of hunting in Wyoming. Your FAILURE to ADMIT many know there is good value in Wyoming hunting is apparent. You also need to go back and read the title of THIS THREAD. I’ll help you out. “

“90/10 not going away...”​


I rest my case.
48E1B26B-4BF2-49E9-B234-246ADA42C6EA.jpeg
 
I wouldn't blame a single NR who drops out of the application process this year, but I have money on there being more applicants than ever.
It is crazy we always hear about al the money that will be lost, but it never seems to be the case. Even with a decrease in tags I find that more people come and spend money. For example when a NR (heck even a resident) pulls a unit 100, 22, 124 bull tag, they are seldom alone or even with just one friend. Instead they have a group come despite only 1 tag. As an example I ran into a NR 124 tag holder 2 years ago in Baggs. First thing in the morning they were at the gas station filling up 3 trucks and 3 atvs for the hunt. 1 tag holder with 6 friends.

The point being is that as we make tags more scarce and the opportunity to hunt decreases we are less likely to hunt solo or with one other person. You often see this in limited tags but seldom in General or OTC tags...
 
Elks96 I would agree that hunters...especially nonres hunters bring their buddies and sometimes even their wife along on trips. That pretty much exemplifies what I'm saying about nonres bringing big $ to small town communities! Every nonres tag lost is a chunk of fresh new $ lost and not coming into Wyo by nonres hunters and their clan of spotters.

Here's your great example: I ran into a NR 124 tag holder 2 years ago in Baggs. First thing in the morning they were at the gas station filling up 3 trucks and 3 atvs for the hunt. 1 tag holder with 6 friends. Take away that 1 nonres tag and how many nonres guys with atv's and trucks are at that same gas station?
 
Elks96 I would agree that hunters...especially nonres hunters bring their buddies and sometimes even their wife along on trips. That pretty much exemplifies what I'm saying about nonres bringing big $ to small town communities! Every nonres tag lost is a chunk of fresh new $ lost and not coming into Wyo by nonres hunters and their clan of spotters.

Here's your great example: I ran into a NR 124 tag holder 2 years ago in Baggs. First thing in the morning they were at the gas station filling up 3 trucks and 3 atvs for the hunt. 1 tag holder with 6 friends. Take away that 1 nonres tag and how many nonres guys with atv's and trucks are at that same gas station?
A resident would bring 6 trucks, 4 ATV's and at least 27 people with them if they had the same tag.
 
I wouldn't blame a single NR who drops out of the application process this year, but I have money on there being more applicants than ever.
I would not take that bet. Between TV, videos, magazines and websites like this one, word of western hunting is spreading through the country at hyper speed. For every one person that drops out two will replace him, (I think half of them don’t have any idea what they are buying) and the state game departments are cleaning up. I cannot imagine what points and draw odds will look like in twenty years.

If somebody wants to go hunting there are still are plenty of ways to do it though.

Mark
 
Randy Newberg knows VALUE. Many other hunters recognize the VALUE of hunting in Wyoming. Your FAILURE to ADMIT many know there is good value in Wyoming hunting is apparent. You also need to go back and read the title of THIS THREAD. I’ll help you out. “

“90/10 not going away...”​


I rest my case.View attachment 65695
Randy said there is not value in sheep or moose bevause of the fees, fyi.
 
Randy said there is not value in sheep or moose bevause of the fees, fyi.
I would agree Wyoming is on the high end of fees for sheep and moose preference points but how long will they remain there? Maybe 1 to 3 years at best? How will you like Utah or Arizona when that worthless Hunting licenses they force you to buy costs $250. With the high number of sheep and Moose tags Wyoming offers you can’t dismiss them as they offer so many licenses and even with a 60% cutback it’s still one of the better ones and everyone knows it. Last year a hunter drew an area 36 ANY MOOSE license with just 7 PP. Where can you do that anywhere in the West? Wyoming still has very good VALUE, just not extreme good Value like it has been.
 
Elks96 I would agree that hunters...especially nonres hunters bring their buddies and sometimes even their wife along on trips. That pretty much exemplifies what I'm saying about nonres bringing big $ to small town communities! Every nonres tag lost is a chunk of fresh new $ lost and not coming into Wyo by nonres hunters and their clan of spotters.

Here's your great example: I ran into a NR 124 tag holder 2 years ago in Baggs. First thing in the morning they were at the gas station filling up 3 trucks and 3 atvs for the hunt. 1 tag holder with 6 friends. Take away that 1 nonres tag and how many nonres guys with atv's and trucks are at that same gas station?

Did they have Utah plates? ?
 
I would agree Wyoming is on the high end of fees for sheep and moose preference points but how long will they remain there? Maybe 1 to 3 years at best? How will you like Utah or Arizona when that worthless Hunting licenses they force you to buy costs $250. With the high number of sheep and Moose tags Wyoming offers you can’t dismiss them as they offer so many licenses and even with a 60% cutback it’s still one of the better ones and everyone knows it. Last year a hunter drew an area 36 ANY MOOSE license with just 7 PP. Where can you do that anywhere in the West? Wyoming still has very good VALUE, just not extreme good Value like it has been.
Every non resident that's ever hunted a few western states knows Wyoming value. If they don't some one needs bigger crayons. It's #1 in my book anyway.
I never applied for points for the big 5. Now that they may be squared I'm jealous!
 
Don, it's 877.70 in non-refundable fees (app fees, convenience fees, point fees) to apply as a NR for the 7 limited draw species and gain a point for the ones with points. This makes Wyoming the most expensive state in the west to apply in, by far. And of course any long-time applicant continues buying those high-priced points, because the future of the WY draw system is too uncertain to risk opting out and banking on just the random.
Thanks! Yikes I missed adding the CC fee into my excel app charts. Yikes.
 
2021 Bill if anyone wants to read it.


I can find a draft for this year and watched the hearing linked on the 307 website. I can’t find a bill yet for 2022 on Wyoming’s legislative website.

My question is that I am sitting on 22 sheep points, some only cost $8 and the rest were $150. If they change the rules so I will never draw, I want my #¥cling money back.
 
2021 Bill if anyone wants to read it.


I can find a draft for this year and watched the hearing linked on the 307 website. I can’t find a bill yet for 2022 on Wyoming’s legislative website.

My question is that I am sitting on 22 sheep points, some only cost $8 and the rest were $150. If they change the rules so I will never draw, I want my #¥cling money back.
Do you want your money back when you don’t win a raffle?
 
The nonresident moose and bighorn sheep preference points were $7 starting in 1996 until the fee was raised in 2006. In 2006 moose was $75 and Sheep was $100. The fees for both were raised in 2018 to $150.00
 
2021 Bill if anyone wants to read it.


I can find a draft for this year and watched the hearing linked on the 307 website. I can’t find a bill yet for 2022 on Wyoming’s legislative website.

My question is that I am sitting on 22 sheep points, some only cost $8 and the rest were $150. If they change the rules so I will never draw, I want my #¥cling money back.
With 22 points you should be able to get a sheep license. Take a hard look at area 7, some decent rams which summer in the Gros Ventre spotted every winter on the Jackson Elk Refuge, I think it was 20 points last year. That should help point creep.
 
With 22 points you should be able to get a sheep license. Take a hard look at area 7, some decent rams which summer in the Gros Ventre spotted every winter on the Jackson Elk Refuge, I think it was 20 points last year. That should help point creep.
Unit 7 - 16 NR applied with 21 points and 3 drew in 2021. With 22 points you have a chance. I really don’t understand the comment, “That should help point creep”.
 
SS!,

The draw in Wyoming isn’t a raffle. Sure there are a few random tags, but Wyoming primarily has a modified preference point system. That means, if I have more points than you, I get the tag. If I knew the state would change the rules in the middle of the game, I would have dropped out when the points went to $75.
 
SS!,

The draw in Wyoming isn’t a raffle. Sure there are a few random tags, but Wyoming primarily has a modified preference point system. That means, if I have more points than you, I get the tag. If I knew the state would change the rules in the middle of the game, I would have dropped out when the points went to $75.
Cool story bro. Just give up your points. No one guaranteed you a tag, you kept playing when the game changed and now it changed enough you want out. So GTFO. More tags for everyone else. They don’t owe you anything and you can print off your last point total and hang it up where you would of hung up your mount of the animal.
 
They will have to buy off the landowners and guides with something before it passes. Landowner tags that can be sold or some sort of guaranteed tags for outfitters. That will be what it takes.
 
They will have to buy off the landowners and guides with something before it passes. Landowner tags that can be sold or some sort of guaranteed tags for outfitters. That will be what it takes.
Not for the big 5.
 
Looks like one of the Task Force members is supporting resident sportsmen.

“Adam Teten, a Buffalo resident and member of the board representing Wyoming’s sportsmen, said the conversation around allocating more resident licenses to those hunting moose, sheep, goats and bison was an easy one - leading to the measure being recommended to the Legislature.
Doing the same for deer, antelope and elk, he said, has more potential implications.
"One of the financial concerns is budgetary for Wyoming Game and Fish," Teten said. "License fees and nonresident fees make up a good chunk of their annual budget, so that would have to be made up somewhere.”
Teten said that Wyoming hunters in favor of 90/10 have indicated that they would accept a license rate increase to offset the cost. Another concern is loss of seasonal tourism that hunting brings into communities if 50-percent fewer nonresident hunters were to visit the state.
However, Teten said, that doesn't account for resident hunters who travel to different parts of the state to hunt and stay overnight in hotels.”https://subletteexaminer.com/article/idea-of-giving-wyoming-residents-more-game-licenses-examined
 
I agree most residents would be willing to pay more for their big game license but there's more money to be had from nonresidents... Nonresident doe fawn antelope tags for $34.00 is crazy cheap $100.00 to 150.00 sounds better to me... Nonresident cow calf elk license need to be raised... And while we are at it how about raising one day and annual fishing license for nonresidents.. If the state needs a little money we can charge nonresidents more for camping at state parks in Wyoming That should me enough to cover the lost revenue of the 90/10 split..
 
“If a 90/10 license concept were to ever be instituted by the legislature, we would surely have to overhaul and increase significantly landowner big-game licenses,” the press release said.

A proposal to the task force from a rancher and outfitter asks the group to consider creating a program in which a number of resident and nonresident tags for deer, elk and antelope are allocated to private landowners.

"The idea that increasing the percentage of licenses available would lead to an increase in the number of residents who draw tags each year is largely inaccurate, Teten said. In hard-to-draw areas with highly coveted tags, where thousands of hopeful hunters apply for an available 50 to 75 tags, changing the ratio of resident tags would have a minimal statistical effect."

"If we're truly concerned with sportsmen's opportunities and the health and well-being of our state's wildlife resources, we need to adjust our focus from 'how do we divvy up the pie' to 'how do we make the pie bigger and better,'" he said. “If we really do want to have a long-term impact on opportunities for sportsmen in the state of Wyoming, we need to start addressing habitat, we need to start addressing the health of the herds.”
 
“If a 90/10 license concept were to ever be instituted by the legislature, we would surely have to overhaul and increase significantly landowner big-game licenses,” the press release said.

A proposal to the task force from a rancher and outfitter asks the group to consider creating a program in which a number of resident and nonresident tags for deer, elk and antelope are allocated to private landowners.
Nice QUOTE MINING. If you’re going to do that here’s Mr. Teten’s response.

Regarding landowner set asides. “ Teten said it is unlikely that there will be any traction for the idea of landowner set-asides.”
 
"Changing the ratio of resident tags would have a minimal statistical effect." Only jims and the idiot who opened his mouth believe this one. If we were talking money gains of 15% most would be all over it; however, when it comes to 15% more tags for residents, it has "minimal statistical effect." Yup, he's an idiot.
 
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I think it is a little sneaky that the WG&F doesn't list how many landowner tags are issued in their harvest and draw reports? Where are these numbers?

Does anyone on this site know if there are currently more landowners bull tags issued than nonres bull tags? I know for a fact that there are several elk units where there are 0 nonres bull tags issued with 1+ issued to landowners!

If Wyo res want more high demand limited tags available they likely could get more of these tags from the current landowner pool than they will get from nonres! How about cutting into some of the current landowner pool or make it tougher for landowners to qualify for these tags that could be handed over to all Wyo res to apply for?
 
I think it is a little sneaky that the WG&F doesn't list how many landowner tags are issued in their harvest and draw reports? Where are these numbers?

Does anyone on this site know if there are currently more landowners bull tags issued than nonres bull tags? I know for a fact that there are several elk units where there are 0 nonres bull tags issued with 1+ issued to landowners!

If Wyo res want more high demand limited tags available they likely could get more of these tags from the current landowner pool than they will get from nonres! How about cutting into some of the current landowner pool or make it tougher for landowners to qualify for these tags that could be handed over to all Wyo res to apply for?
You do realize any landowner can really only acquire ONE full price Elk license for all of his lands. In other words Mr. Anschutz who owns or controls almost 500,000 aces in South Central Wyoming can only get ONE full price elk license per year and one reduced price license and they are non-transferable along with many other rules and restrictions. This program is a way to help compensate landowners for the amount of resources these private lands provide to the wildlife population of the state. At 2,000 days of use, that can be quite an impact on people’s private lands! Please check out the link or contact the Wyoming Game and Fish Department for more information and questions on the Wyoming landowner licenses.
Below is a summation outlining the regulations which will hopefully answer common questions about the program. These landowner tags are available for elk, deer, antelope and wild turkey.

1. To apply for a landowner tag, the landowner must own 160 contiguous acres in the draw area being applied for. If general tags for the species are available, landowner tags will not be issued.

2. This deeded land must provide food, cover and water for the species being applied for. The land must provide 2000 days of use for the species in a 12-month period, demonstrated by the landowner. In other words, it must be shown that in order to qualify for landowner tags, the species must use and occupy that particular land. Two thousand days of use could be 10 animals for 200 days (common for deer or antelope) or maybe 500 head for 4 days! Not unheard of for large herds of elk.

3. A maximum of 2 tags can be issued per landowner per species. The landowner does not have to be issued the tag. One or both can be issued to an immediate family member including the landowner applicant’s parents, grandparents, lineal descendants and their spouses, or landowner’s siblings. In Wyoming, these tags cannot be transferred or sold to other people.

4. Each landowner applicant is limited to 2 tags per species, regardless of the total number of parcels owned by that individual. It is also important to note that of the 2 tags, only one can be applied for as a full price tag in any calendar year. Additional tag must be reduced price (doe or cow tag).

5. Change of ownership to any parcel of land will never allow more than the 2 tags per species limit on the parcel of land. ALSO, “any lands purchased or subdivided for the primary purpose of obtaining landowner licenses shall not be eligible for landowner licenses” per the first paragraph of Section 9. This has been a concern of some sportsmen who believe that landowner tags may be cutting into the ‘pool’ of tags available to the general public.

6. The landowner tags do come out of the ‘pool’ of total quota issued for a particular area. However, it should be comforting to know that the number of landowner tags issued in an area is limited. If more landowner tags are applied for than are available, there will be a competitive drawing within the landowner pool, and no additional tags will be taken from the draw-area pool of tags available to the public.
Look at Section 9
 
Draw odd statistics don't lie when it comes to high demand tags and quotas.

Only 1 or 2 nonres limited elk tags/unit are handed over to Wyo res in most of the high demand elk units. Take a look at unit 100 draw odds. Currently 221 res bull tags. With 90/10 there would be 225 res tags. There were 4,481 applicants in 100 in 2021.

Draw odds in 100 elk for Wyo res with 221 tags in 2021 was 4.93%. Draw odds with additional 90/10 tags would be 5.02%. Believe me, the task force knows for a fact that draw odds for Wyo res aren't going to all of a sudden dramatically increase with 90/10 in high demand units.
 
I'm not saying that the landowner program is bad, I'm just saying that there are more limited high demand elk tags issued to landowners/unit than total nonres hunters.

I don't think many Wyo res are aware of how many high demand landowner tags are issued in each unit because these aren't currently available in any of their harvest or draw reports!
 
Draw odd statistics don't lie when it comes to high demand tags and quotas.

Only 1 or 2 nonres limited elk tags/unit are handed over to Wyo res in most of the high demand elk units. Take a look at unit 100 draw odds. Currently 221 res bull tags. With 90/10 there would be 225 res tags. There were 4,481 applicants in 100 in 2021.

Draw odds in 100 elk for Wyo res with 221 tags in 2021 was 4.93%. Draw odds with additional 90/10 tags would be 5.02%. Believe me, the task force knows for a fact that draw odds for Wyo res aren't going to all of a sudden dramatically increase with 90/10 in high demand units.

You're the only one talking high demand tags jims. I'm telling you that if you cut the current NR allocation from 25% to 10%, that's a gain of 15% more resident tags. Fact..

If residents gain just 1-2 more tags in LQ areas, that's a win.....fact.
 
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I'm not saying that the landowner program is bad, I'm just saying that there are more limited high demand elk tags issued to landowners/unit than total nonres hunters.

I don't think many Wyo res are aware of how many high demand landowner tags are issued in each unit because these aren't currently available in any of their harvest or draw reports!
We are fully aware, we also know and appreciate all the habitat they provide and private REFUGE status many of them provide. There could be future limitations and rules put in place on the program but overall it’s a small reward for the generosity of providing free habitat and without their aid the herds would be much smaller.
 
Does anyone on this site know if there are currently more landowners bull tags issued than nonres bull tags?
This is a false statement and it's easy to figure how many landownwer tags there are in the drawing odds section.
 
I think it is a little sneaky that the WG&F doesn't list how many landowner tags are issued in their harvest and draw reports? Where are these numbers?

Creating relationships with people in the Dept has advantages.

I know for a fact that there are several elk units where there are 0 nonres bull tags issued with 1+ issued to landowners!

NR Landowners drew 136 full price licenses last year.
Landowners can draw every available license for a hunt area, this is true under current regulation. However, for nr landowners to draw tags and none remaining for NR, that remaining quota would be zero. This has happened only once, and it was years ago. For 2021 there were multiple areas with 2 remaining non resident licenses, the smallest quota for any of the full price licenses last year.
 
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I'm glad I'm not the only one bright enough to figure out that res draw odds won't suddenly and dramatically increase for high demand limited tags for res. You can bet the Task Force has these numbers in front of them!

"The idea that increasing the percentage of licenses available would lead to an increase in the number of residents who draw tags each year is largely inaccurate, Teten said. In hard-to-draw areas with highly coveted tags, where thousands of hopeful hunters apply for an available 50 to 75 tags, changing the ratio of resident tags would have a minimal statistical effect."

Is it really worth 90/10? The benefits to res are minimal but the negative affect to every nonres, WG&F license revenue, and small town economies is significant! I think a lot of Wyo res don't look at the long term affects this will have to the WG&F and economy with the additional of only a small number of tags.

Yah, go ahead Wyo cut your own throats by slicing nonres opportunity for limited tags in 1/2!

Wyo res better watch their back with all this nonsense! You can count on outfitters and landowners doing everything in their power to syphon tags...even syphon tags away from Wyo res. You Wyo cowboys probably say that will never happen? Well, guess what, it happened in Colorado and public hunters could do 0 to stop it! Believe me, there were a lot of upset Colo res hunters!

I think I would be a little worried if I was a Wyo res with what's going on behind closed doors with Task Force members associated with outfitters, landowners, etc! They have quite a bit of clout on the political end of things. I certainly would hate to see what happened in Colo also happen in Wyo!

The number of limited tags cut from nonres with 90/10 is a drop in the bucket compared to what may happen with all this nonsense! Keep your eye on your back Wyo cowboys!
 
"The idea that increasing the percentage of licenses available would lead to an increase in the number of residents who draw tags each year is largely inaccurate, Teten said."

This is one of the dumbest quotes I've seen. If the allocation went from 80 to 90%, there would be 10% more tags available to resident hunters. You can't make this sh*# up!
 
Jims if the number of tags reallocated to residents is so small then then the same argument can be made that the number taken from NR is so small it won't matter to them either.

Run on sentence I fear.
 
Read the part that states individual landowner, not a LLC .
They can get a total of 2 full priced licenses for the property if an LLC or to the immediate family members, individual landowners can only get 1 full price license and 1 reduced price license.
I believe this is right, JM77 ?
The total is two licenses, whether it's two full, one full one reduced, or two reduced. To get two full, there has to be two separate qualifying landowners apply, for example husband and wife.
 
Well I don't know about everyone else but I think it's total bs that landowners take over 30% of limited quota deer tags in some areas. The percentage should definately be capped.
 
Jims if the number of tags reallocated to residents is so small then then the same argument can be made that the number taken from NR is so small it won't matter to them either.

Run on sentence I fear.
Not true by a long-shot and even many of the savvy residents will tell you that.

It's all about percentages and how it translates to real numbers.

Sure, the residents WILL get exactly the same number of tags taken out of the Non-res draw but the impact to each group respectively is very lopsided.

Zeke
 
Well I don't know about everyone else but I think it's total bs that landowners take over 30% of limited quota deer tags in some areas. The percentage should definately be capped.
The task force is looking into correlating the percentage of tags given to landowners vs the percentage of private land in that particular unit. There was quite a bit of discussion on landowner tags at the Jan 25 meeting with several options being kicked around.
 
Not true by a long-shot and even many of the savvy residents will tell you that.

It's all about percentages and how it translates to real numbers.

Sure, the residents WILL get exactly the same number of tags taken out of the Non-res draw but the impact to each group respectively is very lopsided.

Zeke
Right, about like the way NR's of Utah have been treated...yes?

What pool of tags did the expo tags get pulled from again?

What percentage of tags does Utah give NR's again?

Asking, for a friend...
 
The task force is looking into correlating the percentage of tags given to landowners vs the percentage of private land in that particular unit. There was quite a bit of discussion on landowner tags at the Jan 25 meeting with several options being kicked around.
Thanks i was trying to watch the zoom but couldn't get it to work for some reason
 
Right, about like the way NR's of Utah have been treated...yes?

What pool of tags did the expo tags get pulled from again?

What percentage of tags does Utah give NR's again?

Asking, for a friend...
You’re kidding, right?

You’re “reply” had nothing to do with my post.
Someone has your feathers ruffled again because obviously you think no one can state a fact without you popping off.

Let me help you…”you’re right Zeke”

Zeke
 
You’re kidding, right?

You’re “reply” had nothing to do with my post.
Someone has your feathers ruffled again because obviously you think no one can state a fact without you popping off.

Let me help you…”you’re right Zeke”

Zeke
I wouldn’t take it too personally Zeke. All the Wyoming boys have their panties in a bit of a wad today. And you are right, as was Mr. Teten when he stated the same fact.
 

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