Mexico Mule Deer

Some friends just got back from hunting Coues deer down there. The mule deer ranch next to them has 60 feeders and water tanks on it, and they were told it costs $25K now to shoot a "trophy" there!!
 
All the mule deer in Mexico are totally wild and free range.

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They Sure As Hell Haven't Been Pulling The Bruisers out of Mexico like They Use To Either!

Not Even Farm Raised Pets!
 
Mx is a no brainer, It’s only going to get bigger and better with the unregulated use of trails cameras, They take Covid serious down there with masking bucks, up to date on there boosters and occasional Tren. I mean honestly who hasnt jacked off a 280” Buck??? Strictly Asking for a friend.

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I have pictures on my phone of a 255" buck that was killed in Mexico this year. I know the hunter, he is a great guy. It was not a high fence hunt but who knows if the buck has ever been darted and put on a table. My understanding is it's the second largest free range mule deer ever killed in Mexico. I have been asked to not share the picture so you will just have to wait.
 
There’s a few legit ranches/ outfitters and operations IMO,but are few and far between compared to 20 years ago when high fence operation were the exception and not the norm. Congrats to your friend regardless that sounds like a Mexico dream deer.. what’s it’s configuration and frame??? if your friend is okay with you mentioning.
 
I don't have the exact measurements but looking at the picture it has a fairly typical frame maybe 36-38 inches wide with matching inlines on both sides with a little trash. total points are 6 right and 7 left.
 
Mexico has turned into a high fence playground. Although the outfitter I guide for is 100% free range, anytime you see a big buck from Mexico it makes you wonder.
 
I have pictures on my phone of a 255" buck that was killed in Mexico this year. I know the hunter, he is a great guy. It was not a high fence hunt but who knows if the buck has ever been darted and put on a table. My understanding is it's the second largest free range mule deer ever killed in Mexico. I have been asked to not share the picture so you will just have to wait.
I know of a couple legit free range 260”+ deer so not the second biggest, but a giant none the less!
 
I'd say, as long as there is demand for giant bucks in Mexico, they will grow them for anyone who wants to go down there... The likelihood that your trophy mule deer in Mexico was/is/will be a canned hunt has and will continue to increase until such a time as there are no true fair chase hunts there... That's assuming there have been fair chase hunts there in the last 20 years, which I think is a stretch.
 
It’s an amazing place and experience, sad to see the trend, you need to take anything harvested there with a grain of salt or kilo of trophy rock or whatever the saying is. Even on the legit free range ranches, a lot of times when the outfitters gone, it’s time for the boys to turn the spotlights and the thermal on.
 
Not much different than the big outfitters in Utah using 20 spotters to find a buck while the hunter is at the lodge.
The entire mess in Mexico is disgusting beyond belief, & only getting worse as time goes by !
I could not afford the outrageous fees, but also will not ever go there for any reason - too dangerous for USA people. Anything goes wrong, you are royally screwed- & no one to
help you !! Not enough $$$ to risk your life or freedom in that cesspool of a country. ???
Jerry Gold - Windsor, Colorado
 
The entire mess in Mexico is disgusting beyond belief, & only getting worse as time goes by !
I could not afford the outrageous fees, but also will not ever go there for any reason - too dangerous for USA people. Anything goes wrong, you are royally screwed- & no one to
help you !! Not enough $$$ to risk your life or freedom in that cesspool of a country. ???
Jerry Gold - Windsor, Colorado
That’s said like someone who actually hasn’t spent much time down there. I’ve never felt like I was in any danger when I’ve been in Mexico.
 
The entire mess in Mexico is disgusting beyond belief, & only getting worse as time goes by !
I could not afford the outrageous fees, but also will not ever go there for any reason - too dangerous for USA people. Anything goes wrong, you are royally screwed- & no one to
help you !! Not enough $$$ to risk your life or freedom in that cesspool of a country. ???
Jerry Gold - Windsor, Colorado
I don’t agree with any of that, but you are entitled to your opinion sir.
 
The entire mess in Mexico is disgusting beyond belief, & only getting worse as time goes by !
I could not afford the outrageous fees, but also will not ever go there for any reason - too dangerous for USA people. Anything goes wrong, you are royally screwed- & no one to
help you !! Not enough $$$ to risk your life or freedom in that cesspool of a country. ???
Jerry Gold - Windsor, Colorado
Until the last 2 years I'd never considered living anywhere but the USA, I'm not sure 10 years from now Mexico won't be a better place to live. Canned hunts aren't my thing but they aren't the worst thing in the world either.
 
I wouldn't do it at this point even if I had the spare change... just too much in the way of questionable hunting. I wouldn't be able to tell of the buck I shot was planted out there or what. Just not for me. Have at it though if it's what you're into.

Is Coues the same down there ar pretty wild free range still?
 
I’ve felt unsafe a handful of times usually closer to border late at night running the spot light. Hermosillo is underrated and a great city, I love Club La Habana to burn a few days and acclimate for some pre rut Margaritas and most the working girls are bi as in bilingual. Don’t over look Steaks Del Herrodera or Sonora Steak house for some region renowned beef.
 
Why all the Mexico hate?! I went down there and didn't see any high fences where I was at. Sonora was one of the coolest places I have ever hunted. People saying that Sonora is all high fenced is comical. Think there is a lot of jealousy in our hunting community. The public versus private thing is also another thing that I have seen folks make snide remarks as well. I don't understand it.
 
I love hunting old Mexico , private land , no high fence, no hordes of OTC hunters, it’s la frontera de vanado

i guess if jealous folks want to complain about Texas , then Mexico is next
its comical what people are coveting and throwing out the hate
 
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Well I guess if you prioritize killing something with massive antlers,regardless of how then Mexico (and Texas I guess) are great. If how matters to you then maybe not so much.

I don't think jealousy is the issue.
 
Why all the Mexico hate?! I went down there and didn't see any high fences where I was at. Sonora was one of the coolest places I have ever hunted. People saying that Sonora is all high fenced is comical. Think there is a lot of jealousy in our hunting community. The public versus private thing is also another thing that I have seen folks make snide remarks as well. I don't understand it.
Did you read the posts? The answer to the “hate” is high fence operations and selective breeding. Literally multiple guys spelled out the answer to your question. But you had to go all Karen on us by calling it hate? Is this how you handle discussions about something you don’t agree with? Are you not accepting of criticism?

How is it jealousy? Does your mind twist everything into hate and jealousy?

Oh wait I just saw you’re in Texas. Sorry you know nothing of ethics or morals. Carry on.
 
Mexico is no different than Texass. Feeders, supplements, and stock tanks. Shooting gallery for the rich......
You've never hunted down there have you?

I seriously just laugh at the stupidity of some of the posts. Mexico is a pretty dang big country. I'm sure you can find good and bad all throughout and to be fair I've only hunted Sonora and never could afford Mule deer tags but I've hunted for Coues deer in Mx for almost 15 years.
It is a wonderful place with great people and pretty good hunting. I've been all throughout the northern part of Sonora and have never seen high fences, feeders etc.. I'm sure a few places do it...but not very many.

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You've never hunted down there have you?

I seriously just laugh at the stupidity of some of the posts. Mexico is a pretty dang big country. I'm sure you can find good and bad all throughout and to be fair I've only hunted Sonora and never could afford Mule deer tags but I've hunted for Coues deer in Mx for almost 15 years.
It is a wonderful place with great people and pretty good hunting. I've been all throughout the northern part of Sonora and have never seen high fences, feeders etc.. I'm sure a few places do it...but not very many.

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Great bucks and thanks for sharing! But the topic was mule deer. So you admit you have no experience hunting mule deer in Mexico but you chose to rip someone else by assuming they haven’t either? I don’t think you’ll see anyone argue about the coues deer hunting.

Just because you haven’t seen the ranches etc doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And a lot of the free ranching ranches are buying deer to release on their ranches. Some are fenced on 3 sides so they don’t classify themselves as high fenced. The point is they are there. And that is reason enough for someone to have their thoughts/opinions.

Bottom line if you see a big mule deer buck pic from Mexico and you don’t have the thought if the buck is high fenced or not than you know what they say. Ignorance is bliss.

Can you say the same about that for Wyoming? Colorado? Nope. Texas? Yep. Mexico? Yep!
 
Great bucks and thanks for sharing! But the topic was mule deer. So you admit you have no experience hunting mule deer in Mexico but you chose to rip someone else by assuming they haven’t either? I don’t think you’ll see anyone argue about the coues deer hunting.

Just because you haven’t seen the ranches etc doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And a lot of the free ranching ranches are buying deer to release on their ranches. Some are fenced on 3 sides so they don’t classify themselves as high fenced. The point is they are there. And that is reason enough for someone to have their thoughts/opinions.

Bottom line if you see a big mule deer buck pic from Mexico and you don’t have the thought if the buck is high fenced or not than you know what they say. Ignorance is bliss.

Can you say the same about that for Wyoming? Colorado? Nope. Texas? Yep. Mexico? Yep!
What's the difference between a 3 sided fence and an alfalfa field in the middle of 20,000 acres? They hold deer just the same.
 
Great bucks and thanks for sharing! But the topic was mule deer. So you admit you have no experience hunting mule deer in Mexico but you chose to rip someone else by assuming they haven’t either? I don’t think you’ll see anyone argue about the coues deer hunting.

Just because you haven’t seen the ranches etc doesn’t mean they don’t exist. And a lot of the free ranching ranches are buying deer to release on their ranches. Some are fenced on 3 sides so they don’t classify themselves as high fenced. The point is they are there. And that is reason enough for someone to have their thoughts/opinions.

Bottom line if you see a big mule deer buck pic from Mexico and you don’t have the thought if the buck is high fenced or not than you know what they say. Ignorance is bliss.

Can you say the same about that for Wyoming? Colorado? Nope. Texas? Yep. Mexico? Yep!
It's been about 20 years since I hunted deer in Mexico. Back then, high-fence operations were pretty much nonexistent.

The ranch we hunted was west of Caborca & not too far from the Gulf. In fact, we could see it if we were atop a hill. The only fences, which were few, were the 3-strand variety.

I was hunting Coues only, but another guy in camp was after a mule deer. On the 2nd day, I was out with one of the ranch hands & glassing in an area of rolling hills. Instead of a Coues buck, glassed up a big mule deer. Noting the location, we backed on out & went to tell the other hunter where he could find his trophy. He went back there with his guide & nailed it.

But alas, everything has changed. A quick google search shows several outfitters offering hunts on high-fenced properties. It's a shame what the almighty dollar & phallic competition has done. :(
 
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What's the difference between a 3 sided fence and an alfalfa field in the middle of 20,000 acres? They hold deer just the same.
Well on the elementary level of examples the deer in the mythical alfalfa field can leave at any time and go anywhere he wants to go. The deer in the 3 sided high fence cannot. Oh btw did you know on a lot of the ranches that are fenced on 3 sides the last side is fenced off by the neighbor? So they are unable to leave. Some of the desert bighorn hunts are like this too. The fence is the ocean so they still qualify for B&C….

I don’t expect a reply or want one. It’s clear with your craptastic example where your opinion is. Seriously who puts the alfalfa field in the MIDDLE of 20,000 acres?
 
Did you read the posts? The answer to the “hate” is high fence operations and selective breeding. Literally multiple guys spelled out the answer to your question. But you had to go all Karen on us by calling it hate? Is this how you handle discussions about something you don’t agree with? Are you not accepting of criticism?

How is it jealousy? Does your mind twist everything into hate and jealousy?

Oh wait I just saw you’re in Texas. Sorry you know nothing of ethics or morals. Carry on.
I'm sure there are a few high fenced operations and some that do selective breeding in Sonora but I assure you that is the exception. Have you ever been to Sonora and hunted mule deer?

Me going "Karen" on people posting BS about Mexico. That's funny. I'm offering my "first hand" experience as I have been to Sonora and never saw any of that but I'm sure that it may be there. Painting a broad stroke over a whole state of Sonora as nothing but high fenced that only do selective breeding is crazy.
 
It's been about 20 years since I hunted deer in Mexico. Back then, high-fence operations were pretty much nonexistent.

The ranch we hunted was west of Caborca & not too far from the Gulf. In fact, we could see it if we're atop a hill. The only fences, which were few, were the 3-strand variety.

I was hunting Coues only, but another guy in camp was after a mule deer. On the 2nd day, I was out with one of the ranch hands & glassing in an area of rolling hills. Instead of a Coues buck, glassed up a big mule deer. Noting the location, we backed on out & went to tell the other hunter where he could find his trophy. He went back there with his guide & nailed it.

But alas, everything has changed. A quick google search shows several outfitters offering hunts on high-fenced properties. It's a shame what the almighty dollar & phallic competition has done. :(
Tony thanks for sharing that story. I always appreciate your posts.

What you experienced in Mexico is still possible today. It just takes a little bit of research and asking the right questions. The Karen’s on the threads all worked up can’t comprehend that the side they disagree with never said it’s all high fenced.
 
I'm sure there are a few high fenced operations and some that do selective breeding in Sonora but I assure you that is the exception. Have you ever been to Sonora and hunted mule deer?

Me going "Karen" on people posting BS about Mexico. That's funny. I'm offering my "first hand" experience as I have been to Sonora and never saw any of that but I'm sure that it may be there. Painting a broad stroke over a whole state of Sonora as nothing but high fenced that only do selective breeding is crazy.
Please show me what has been posted that is BS? You’re offering first hand knowledge of hunting a ranch that isn’t high fence? Ok, cool. No one said you didn’t. Others posted the high fence animals and you chose not to believe it? We’re you born stupid or did it come to you over time?
 
Tony thanks for sharing that story. I always appreciate your posts.

What you experienced in Mexico is still possible today. It just takes a little bit of research and asking the right questions. The Karen’s on the threads all worked up can’t comprehend that the side they disagree with never said it’s all high fenced.
This is the mule deer I mentioned. It had a 31" spread.

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Please show me what has been posted that is BS? You’re offering first hand knowledge of hunting a ranch that isn’t high fence? Ok, cool. No one said you didn’t. Others posted the high fence animals and you chose not to believe it? We’re you born stupid or did it come to you over time?
Dude....why are you so angry?! I'm sure your a barrel of laughs to be around. :oops:
 
Well on the elementary level of examples the deer in the mythical alfalfa field can leave at any time and go anywhere he wants to go. The deer in the 3 sided high fence cannot. Oh btw did you know on a lot of the ranches that are fenced on 3 sides the last side is fenced off by the neighbor? So they are unable to leave. Some of the desert bighorn hunts are like this too. The fence is the ocean so they still qualify for B&C….

I don’t expect a reply or want one. It’s clear with your craptastic example where your opinion is. Seriously who puts the alfalfa field in the MIDDLE of 20,000 acres?
Check out the Navajo res buck on a different thread on this site right now, the irrigation pipe is in the picture(mythical, I know). The theory of where a deer might go and the reality of whether it will leave are very different.
 
Dude....why are you so angry?! I'm sure your a barrel of laughs to be around. :oops:
That’s right don’t answer the question. You’re the one that got all butt hurt cuz we called out that if you kill a big mule deer in Mexico likely it isn’t wild.

Mexico and Texas, two places where you kill your pets and call it hunting.
 
That’s right don’t answer the question. You’re the one that got all butt hurt cuz we called out that if you kill a big mule deer in Mexico likely it isn’t wild.

Mexico and Texas, two places where you kill your pets and call it hunting.
Come on now SS, not all of Texas is like that nor are all Texans. Leave Troll-state out of this.
 
That’s right don’t answer the question. You’re the one that got all butt hurt cuz we called out that if you kill a big mule deer in Mexico likely it isn’t wild.

Mexico and Texas, two places where you kill your pets and call it hunting.
"Likely isn't wild"? It seems like you're just making this up.
 
Of course not all of Texas is like that but it is the state to go if one chooses to shoot tame animals ?
Ok, just move on , most people are jealous of Texas because it’s a private land state , so they bad mouth it because they are to poor to hunt a place that isn’t a welfare state
Mexico is great place with lots of ranch’s bigger than lot of hunting units in the western states , fortunately it’s private land and managed, and trophy deer take time to mature

moral is if your hunting on welfare don’t bad mouth someplace you’r coveting because you’re on state support
 
A friend of mine went to Sonora a few weeks ago and took a very nice typical buck. He said the only fence he saw was barbed wire for cattle, just like you'd see anywhere else.
 
Ok, just move on , most people are jealous of Texas because it’s a private land state , so they bad mouth it because they are to poor to hunt a place that isn’t a welfare state
Mexico is great place with lots of ranch’s bigger than lot of hunting units in the western states , fortunately it’s private land and managed, and trophy deer take time to mature

moral is if your hunting on welfare don’t bad mouth someplace you’r coveting because you’re on state support
As a Texan, I wish it was less private. Grew up in NM and miss all the BLM/public land.
 
That’s right don’t answer the question. You’re the one that got all butt hurt cuz we called out that if you kill a big mule deer in Mexico likely it isn’t wild.

Mexico and Texas, two places where you kill your pets and call it hunting.
That’s right don’t answer the question. You’re the one that got all butt hurt cuz we called out that if you kill a big mule deer in Mexico likely it isn’t wild.

Mexico and Texas, two places where you kill your pets and call it hunting.
You don’t have the money to hunt Mexico mule and nor have you ever been. Cracks me up how this goofball talks $hit about Sonora and has never hunted it.
 
Ok, just move on , most people are jealous of Texas because it’s a private land state , so they bad mouth it because they are to poor to hunt a place that isn’t a welfare state
Mexico is great place with lots of ranch’s bigger than lot of hunting units in the western states , fortunately it’s private land and managed, and trophy deer take time to mature

moral is if your hunting on welfare don’t bad mouth someplace you’r coveting because you’re on state support
You don’t have the money to hunt Mexico mule and nor have you ever been. Cracks me up how this goofball talks $hit about Sonora and has never hunted it.
Well....I think we may have found the answer to the "why all the Texan hate" thread...
 
I’m mouthy to idiots that spew drivel!
Yes the mouthy welfare recipients hide behind their keyboards, and don’t even list their home state ! By welfare I refure to federal and BLM land that states reserve for residents that we the taxpayers foot the bill ! Yet are denied but for limited draws , yet while hunting on our land they choose to bad mouth states and contries they can’t afford to go to :)
 
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Yes the mouthy welfare recipients hide behind their keyboards, and don’t even list their home state ! By welfare I refure to federal and BLM land that states reserve of residents that we the taxpayers foot the bill ! Yet are denied but for limited draws , yet while hunting on our land they choose to bad mouth states they can’t afford :)
yep....you're Texan to the bone
 
Yes the mouthy welfare recipients hide behind their keyboards, and don’t even list their home state ! By welfare I refure to federal and BLM land that states reserve of residents that we the taxpayers foot the bill ! Yet are denied but for limited draws , yet while hunting on our land they choose to bad mouth states they can’t afford :)
You're hiding behind the same keyboard as the rest of us, I'm from Idaho. You can buy a tag in my state OTC every year and come hunt public land that we all pay taxes on. Why don't you?

Because the "welfare" animals might get away before you can club them to death with your wallet?
 
As someone that probably lives not too far from you, I can assure you we don’t all feel this way and
I can easily afford to hunt anywhere in the world. I love hunting public land in Utah and NM.
Yes the mouthy welfare recipients hide behind their keyboards, and don’t even list their home state ! By welfare I refure to federal and BLM land that states reserve of residents that we the taxpayers foot the bill ! Yet are denied but for limited draws , yet while hunting on our land they choose to bad mouth states they can’t afford :)
 
This thread is hilarious. 26% of the population of Sonora lives in poverty. Most ranches, like many in the US, are basically scraping by. High fencing these ranches is not a practical reality. Do some do it? Sure, probably those with hunting managed by Americans. However, at nearly 70,000 square miles (15,000 less than the entire state of Utah), and proportionately about as many people living there, the idea that anything more than just a small portion are high fenced is ludicrous. Hunting is not a sport/recreation for the common citizen/s of Mexico like it is in Utah (and other states). That means that deer and other game is effectively not hunted, except by foreigners. Can you imagine how big some of the deer would be if hunting deer was cut back by 90% in Utah and other states in the US (assuming that 10% is the number of foreign hunters hunting Sonora, which is probably less than that)?
Yeah, we'd see some monsters.
 
This thread is hilarious. 26% of the population of Sonora lives in poverty. Most ranches, like many in the US, are basically scraping by. High fencing these ranches is not a practical reality. Do some do it? Sure, probably those with hunting managed by Americans. However, at nearly 70,000 square miles (15,000 less than the entire state of Utah), and proportionately about as many people living there, the idea that anything more than just a small portion are high fenced is ludicrous. Hunting is not a sport/recreation for the common citizen/s of Mexico like it is in Utah (and other states). That means that deer and other game is effectively not hunted, except by foreigners. Can you imagine how big some of the deer would be if hunting deer was cut back by 90% in Utah and other states in the US (assuming that 10% is the number of foreign hunters hunting Sonora, which is probably less than that)?
Yeah, we'd see some monsters.
It may not be a recreational activity for them but much of Mexico is devoid of lage game animals according to a coworker who is from there and returns often to visit the small ranch he grew up on in a very sparsely populated part of the country many are killed and eaten by hungry folks.

You miss the point that the deer have not been managed there for many years because they had little recreational value, thus they were a food source.

The parts of Mexico that have huntable populations of mule deer are probably quite small, and even though the country is very poor, rich landowners are probably the same as here, they want to be richer (not meant in a bad way) thus will supply what the demand is....in this case big deer in an easy too hunt environment. As long as people are willing to pay the price it will go up and the product will be exploited.

Only if people aren't willing to pay the price for a canned opportunity will the demand and the existence diminish.
 
This thread is hilarious. 26% of the population of Sonora lives in poverty. Most ranches, like many in the US, are basically scraping by. High fencing these ranches is not a practical reality. Do some do it? Sure, probably those with hunting managed by Americans. However, at nearly 70,000 square miles (15,000 less than the entire state of Utah), and proportionately about as many people living there, the idea that anything more than just a small portion are high fenced is ludicrous. Hunting is not a sport/recreation for the common citizen/s of Mexico like it is in Utah (and other states). That means that deer and other game is effectively not hunted, except by foreigners. Can you imagine how big some of the deer would be if hunting deer was cut back by 90% in Utah and other states in the US (assuming that 10% is the number of foreign hunters hunting Sonora, which is probably less than that)?
Yeah, we'd see some monsters.
Psssshh did you not watch the 40 min video on R2? Utah is cranking out the monsters and they don’t have to high fence them full of steroids either!!
 
If the trailcam ban goes into effect, Chag is screwed. Seems that was his only way of hunting. Still can’t believe I watched 42 mins of a dude posing with another dude’s deer.
jeezus.....it only took me 4 minutes to watch the whole thing....
 
It may not be a recreational activity for them but much of Mexico is devoid of lage game animals according to a coworker who is from there and returns often to visit the small ranch he grew up on in a very sparsely populated part of the country many are killed and eaten by hungry folks.

You miss the point that the deer have not been managed there for many years because they had little recreational value, thus they were a food source.

The parts of Mexico that have huntable populations of mule deer are probably quite small, and even though the country is very poor, rich landowners are probably the same as here, they want to be richer (not meant in a bad way) thus will supply what the demand is....in this case big deer in an easy too hunt environment. As long as people are willing to pay the price it will go up and the product will be exploited.

Only if people aren't willing to pay the price for a canned opportunity will the demand and the existence diminish.

Sorry, I agree to disagree. Mexico is basically an unarmed country except for the Narcos. My wife is Mexican and gun ownership is non-existence except for those with financial and political resources. It took me YEARS to get her on the same page as me about gun rights, and the right to bear arms for family/self preservation. Furthermore, the mass populations live in cities, and do not have the ability (like our poachers ;) to go poach animals off of ranchers properties. Hermosillo alone has 900,000 of the 2.9 million.

Now, as I am in the process of building a home in baja and getting my dual citizenship, I have to figure out how I can gain financial/political resources. ;)
 
It may not be a recreational activity for them but much of Mexico is devoid of lage game animals according to a coworker who is from there and returns often to visit the small ranch he grew up on in a very sparsely populated part of the country many are killed and eaten by hungry folks.

You miss the point that the deer have not been managed there for many years because they had little recreational value, thus they were a food source.

The parts of Mexico that have huntable populations of mule deer are probably quite small, and even though the country is very poor, rich landowners are probably the same as here, they want to be richer (not meant in a bad way) thus will supply what the demand is....in this case big deer in an easy too hunt environment. As long as people are willing to pay the price it will go up and the product will be exploited.

Only if people aren't willing to pay the price for a canned opportunity will the demand and the existence diminish.
northern Mexico like much of southern USA in the 20th century was desimmated by screwworm, cattle and wildlife where pretty much suffering till Mexico and the United States figured out how to eradicate them in a joint effort, since the 1970’s the mule deer and white tail has rebounded to huntable trophy levels
 

This and another study I read speak to the sustainability of ranches as deer management areas and deer as a resource. If you read it (not exciting stuff) it speaks to both heavy subsistence hunting and poaching. I do fully understand through the same coworker that most of the population is unarmed and those that do have guns don't have ammo for it.

I'd imagine if one wants to poach or subsitence hunt you'd find a way. Even in Mexico. It's probably very regional. But if there is deer to eat I'd bet that folks are eating them.
Sorry, I agree to disagree. Mexico is basically an unarmed country except for the Narcos. My wife is Mexican and gun ownership is non-existence except for those with financial and political resources. It took me YEARS to get her on the same page as me about gun rights, and the right to bear arms for family/self preservation. Furthermore, the mass populations live in cities, and do not have the ability (like our poachers ;) to go poach animals off of ranchers properties. Hermosillo alone has 900,000 of the 2.9 million.

Now, as I am in the process of building a home in baja and getting my dual citizenship, I have to figure out how I can gain financial/political resources. ;)
 

This and another study I read speak to the sustainability of ranches as deer management areas and deer as a resource. If you read it (not exciting stuff) it speaks to both heavy subsistence hunting and poaching. I do fully understand through the same coworker that most of the population is unarmed and those that do have guns don't have ammo for it.

I'd imagine if one wants to poach or subsitence hunt you'd find a way. Even in Mexico. It's probably very regional. But if there is deer to eat I'd bet that folks are eating them.
That's a lot of spear chuckers... Yes, there is probably some poaching on small properties near pueblos. But, the hunting ranches that are hunted commercially range from 6,000 to 60,000 acres. I would bet my last nickel the last time they had a poaching problem on them was 50+ years ago. Furthermore, the typical low-fence cattle ranch hunted takes less than 10 deer a year from it, and some far fewer. Far less than a typical general season unit, and less than most limited entry units. Point being, when you limit hunting, age class gets older. Older deer are bigger deer. You don't need high fences/breeding/corn flickers to get older deer, however it does short cut the process. Thus, most ranches are low fence hunting operations that take a few mature animals each year, which in turn keeps fat-cat American hunters happy.
 
That's a lot of spear chuckers... Yes, there is probably some poaching on small properties near pueblos. But, the hunting ranches that are hunted commercially range from 6,000 to 60,000 acres. I would bet my last nickel the last time they had a poaching problem on them was 50+ years ago. Furthermore, the typical low-fence cattle ranch hunted takes less than 10 deer a year from it, and some far fewer. Far less than a typical general season unit, and less than most limited entry units. Point being, when you limit hunting, age class gets older. Older deer are bigger deer. You don't need high fences/breeding/corn flickers to get older deer, however it does short cut the process. Thus, most ranches are low fence hunting operations that take a few mature animals each year, which in turn keeps fat-cat American hunters happy.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. While it may be wrong it doesn’t matter. Because after all we are talking about Mexico here.
 
Sorry, I agree to disagree. Mexico is basically an unarmed country except for the Narcos. My wife is Mexican and gun ownership is non-existence except for those with financial and political resources. It took me YEARS to get her on the same page as me about gun rights, and the right to bear arms for family/self preservation. Furthermore, the mass populations live in cities, and do not have the ability (like our poachers ;) to go poach animals off of ranchers properties. Hermosillo alone has 900,000 of the 2.9 million.

Now, as I am in the process of building a home in baja and getting my dual citizenship, I have to figure out how I can gain financial/political resources. ;)
Does your wife have any tamale recipes you could share?
 
That's a lot of spear chuckers... Yes, there is probably some poaching on small properties near pueblos. But, the hunting ranches that are hunted commercially range from 6,000 to 60,000 acres. I would bet my last nickel the last time they had a poaching problem on them was 50+ years ago. Furthermore, the typical low-fence cattle ranch hunted takes less than 10 deer a year from it, and some far fewer. Far less than a typical general season unit, and less than most limited entry units. Point being, when you limit hunting, age class gets older. Older deer are bigger deer. You don't need high fences/breeding/corn flickers to get older deer, however it does short cut the process. Thus, most ranches are low fence hunting operations that take a few mature animals each year, which in turn keeps fat-cat American hunters happy.
A bit of your post touches on my point. There are only small pockets of deer populations. Deer are distributed very differently than the state of Utah (that you chose as a comparison because of area and population).

Those pockets are slowly becoming more exploited, it's only natural and no different than what our states do with herds. Mule deer are at an all time high in popularity and they will be rode into the ground. The difference down there is LESS regulation on the landowners than here.

There will be more and more fat cats wanting to kill one of those big bucks and more and more will be engineered for the purpose and with that investment comes fencing them in and eventually cornflickers.... they're already there for sure and as with any business, if your competitors are selling more product.....well you know what's next.
 
A bit of your post touches on my point. There are only small pockets of deer populations. Deer are distributed very differently than the state of Utah (that you chose as a comparison because of area and population).

Those pockets are slowly becoming more exploited, it's only natural and no different than what our states do with herds. Mule deer are at an all time high in popularity and they will be rode into the ground. The difference down there is LESS regulation on the landowners than here.

There will be more and more fat cats wanting to kill one of those big bucks and more and more will be engineered for the purpose and with that investment comes fencing them in and eventually cornflickers.... they're already there for sure and as with any business, if your competitors are selling more product.....well you know what's next.
This, we can agree on. It will only get worse. However, it is still a small percentage NOW. And hunting is far more regulated there. FAR more regulated. Most Mexicans don't even know you can legally hunt. I spoke with a guy in Baja whose family owned a big ranch. I tried to tell him how hunting = conservation. The North American conservation model. He completely dismissed it and said these deer are off limits. No further discussion. But again, it is a FRACTION of the current ranches that have high fences.
 
Does your wife have any tamale recipes you could share?
She LOVES tamales. She got me up on a Sunday morning, after having some Margaritas the night before and told me I had to drive her 30 miles for Tamales for breakfast because the ONLY good tamales were made in that town. Believe it or not, tamales are as much a breakfast food as anything else. We actually rarely eat them for dinner. Her typical way is throwing an over easy egg on top, with some sour cream and salsa and possibly a skim of refried beans on top. They take a very long time to make, so usually you can find a little old Senorita that makes batches of them for sale. My wife is more of a tamale finder than a tamale maker. She usually asks around until she finds that Senorita, and makes regular purchases. BTW - Tamales can be wrapped with corn, but the better tamales are wrapped with banana leaves. My wife is from Southern Mexico, so she really tries for the banana leaf ones although they are hard to come by. She'll eat either one though.
 
I have been to many different ranches in Mexico. Everyone of them has guns and yes they are hidden. It’s ridiculously easy to smuggle guns into the country for hunting. Every town has individuals who specialize in smuggling arms for a small fee. No secret.

I would also be very skeptical about paying for a mule deer hunt with a high success rate on huge bucks. Word is out in Mexico more than ever that big money is to be had with monster sized racks hence the reason for fence and release like a pheasant.
 
She LOVES tamales. She got me up on a Sunday morning, after having some Margaritas the night before and told me I had to drive her 30 miles for Tamales for breakfast because the ONLY good tamales were made in that town. Believe it or not, tamales are as much a breakfast food as anything else. We actually rarely eat them for dinner. Her typical way is throwing an over easy egg on top, with some sour cream and salsa and possibly a skim of refried beans on top. They take a very long time to make, so usually you can find a little old Senorita that makes batches of them for sale. My wife is more of a tamale finder than a tamale maker. She usually asks around until she finds that Senorita, and makes regular purchases. BTW - Tamales can be wrapped with corn, but the better tamales are wrapped with banana leaves. My wife is from Southern Mexico, so she really tries for the banana leaf ones although they are hard to come by. She'll eat either one though.
Dang! It’s very hard to get good tamales up here in Alaska. I suppose if one could that might just make it paradise ?
 
Most people who would never hunt Mexico put in for the Antelope Island hunt every year.

When I worked at the sawmill, several of the Mexican workers wives would bring in homemade tamales to sell at lunch time. I never bought any, but they sold out every day.
 
My friends just returned from Coues deer hunting down there in Sonora. Those are still good honest hunts, and up in the hills, with lots of hiking. The lower portions of the ranch are "managed" for big mule deer, and hunts are pretty much guaranteed by use of alfalfa, corn, protein, and lots of water tanks. $25K gets you a big deer. These below are a couple of their culls!!

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Most people who would never hunt Mexico put in for the Antelope Island hunt every year.

When I worked at the sawmill, several of the Mexican workers wives would bring in homemade tamales to sell at lunch time. I never bought any, but they sold out every day.
When I was still golfing, one of my regular playing partners was Mexican -- Patricio Torrez. Like clockwork, he would bring me a dozen tamales every New Year. That was enough to last me a year. He died of a sudden heart attack a couple years ago. I haven't eaten a tamale since I ran out of the last batch from him.
 
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Used to be a Mexican guy that would drop by my work a couple times a month selling tamales, probably because I would buy a dozen. He made his living doing that to multiple businesses. I guess some “Karen” turned him in and the health department shut him down. I’m still pissed at whoever did that.
 
I never could eat one from a Mexican. There must be a law in Mexico against throwing toilet paper in the toilet. At the sawmill, they always threw the toilet paper on the floor behind the toilet. I suggested to management they have a toilet training seminar, but they never did. Disgusting.
 
I never could eat one from a Mexican. There must be a law in Mexico against throwing toilet paper in the toilet. At the sawmill, they always threw the toilet paper on the floor behind the toilet. I suggested to management they have a toilet training seminar, but they never did. Disgusting.
lol, I like your thinking, i Thought bathroom TP habitat was just confined to below I-10
 
I never could eat one from a Mexican. There must be a law in Mexico against throwing toilet paper in the toilet. At the sawmill, they always threw the toilet paper on the floor behind the toilet. I suggested to management they have a toilet training seminar, but they never did. Disgusting.
Most everywhere I’ve been has pretty poor plumbing so TP and wet wipes go in the garbage beside the toilet. Pretty gross, but it is what it is. I’m headed back down in the morning for another few weeks South of the border.
 

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