HB 0062

The hunting provision was already in the law, it was just a re-wording in this bill.

This bill passed very easily and shows how outfitters are in the legislature’s crosshairs. The trail cam prohibition was responded to by the outfitters with “we don’t care, we are still going to kill the biggest animals because we have people out finding those animals all year!”

Well…now you better not or you’re going to get hit with unlawful taking and unprofessional conduct penalties. The latter I didn’t even know existed until this morning.
 
Here is the text.

Section 6. Section 23-20-33 is enacted to read:
266 23-20-33. Limitation on compensating people to locate big game animals.
267 (1) As used in this section:
268 (a) "Compensate" or "compensated" means anything of value in excess of $25 that is
269 paid, loaned, given, granted, donated, or transferred to a person for or in consideration of
270 locating or monitoring the location of big game animals.
271 (b) "Retain" or "retained" means a written or oral agreement for the delivery of
272 outfitting services or hunting guide services between an outfitter or hunting guide and the
273 recipient of those services
(2) Except as provided in Subsections (3) and (4), a person may not compensate
275 another person to locate or monitor the location of big game animals on public land in
276 connection with or furtherance of taking a big game animal under this title.
277 (3) A person may compensate a registered outfitter or hunting guide, as defined in
278
 
278 Section 58-79-102, to help the person locate and take a big game animal on public land if:
279 (a) the outfitter or hunting guide is registered and in good standing under Title 58,
280 Chapter 79, Hunting Guides and Outfitters Registration Act;
281 (b) the person has retained the outfitter or hunting guide and is the recipient of the
282 outfitting services and hunting guide services, as defined in Section 58-79-102;
283 (c) the person possesses the licenses and permits required to take a big game animal;
284 (d) the person retains and uses not more than one outfitter or hunting guide in
285 connection with taking a big game animal; and
286 (e) the retained outfitter or hunting guide uses no more than one compensated
287 individual in locating or monitoring the location of big game animals on public land.
288 (4) A registered outfitter or hunting guide in good standing may compensate another
289 person to locate or monitor the location of big game animals on public land if:
290 (a) the outfitter or hunting guide has been retained by the recipient of the outfitting
291 services or hunting guide services to assist the recipient take a big game animal on public land;
292 (b) the recipient possesses the licenses and permits required to take a big game animal;
293 (c) the recipient is not simultaneously using another outfitter or hunting guide to assist
294 in taking the same species and sex of big game animal; and
295 (d) the outfitter or hunting guide compensates not more than one other individual to
296 locate or monitor the location of big game animals in connection with assisting the recipient
297 take a big game animal on public land.
298 (5) A violation of:
299 (a) this section constitutes an unlawful take under Section 23-20-3; and
300 (b) Subsection (4) constitutes unlawful conduct under Sections 58-1-501, 58-1-502,
301 and 58-79-501.
 
Love it!! Anything we can do to limit the cluster that the big time outfitters have brought to Utah hunting is a good thing. My only concern is that some of these outfits (cough, cough WLH) don't follow rules to begin with and think they are above the law, so I am pessimistic in that regard, but love the direction this is headed!!
 
307 lines of government red tape. We will get to the point where if your farts stink too bad Casey Snider will write a law that you must carry Fabreze in your pocket.
 
00small60379270.jpeg.jpg
F1559611-F9A0-48D2-B0A9-3708B884DC32.png
 
That was Arizona but scenes like that play out every year here in Utah too.

Remember the spider bull? No shenanigans there… Competition for inches and big money never really benefits the animal or the public. But it does kill big critters.

Only trouble is this will be unenforceable. No way to track under the table pmts to “friends” tagging along. I have a feeling the number of guides in the pictures won’t change, just the way they are compensated.
 
Looks hot as hell!! And there worried about running the tape, enough people there to get it taken care of and packed out pretty fast, then tape it sitting at camp ?
 
960 on the 1st Shot!

Pay Attention Long Rangers on the 2nd Shot at about 15:04!

He Shoots just as the Bull Starts Moving making a Poor 2nd Shot!

Ya!

It Did The Trick I Guess!

That Bullet Lost a Lot of Energy at That Range!

And It Makes You Wonder How Many Animals Have Limped Off & Died Because LongRanger Didn't Know They Hit The Animal Or Were Too F'N Lazy To Go Check it Out?

 
What a Bull, someone is listening now they want to get rid of the football teams and finder fees. Utah is on the right track
 
notdonhunting said:
Love when someone posts lies but it is ok it is okay it is for the greater good.
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Lies? You can GFY. I never go after people, but when a piece of **** calls me a liar they deserve no respect. There was not a single word in my post. It was merely a picture indicative of a problem. If you think the situation is different regardless of whether it's north or south of an imaginary line, you're part of the problem.

The issue of massive guide crews isn't limited to one state, which is why I posted that picture directly after SS said
SS! said:
Wtf so no more field pics with 30 utards in them?
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My point is that it isn't just Utah that does that. That's in Arizona and one of the most egregious examples I've seen. Wise up, Not Don
 
I will apologize for calling you liar, but the pic was deceptive at best.
No explanation for the picture
Yes SS did post
"wtf so no more pics with 30 utards in them"
How is posting the pic you posted let's pepole know you are showing it is going on in Arizona too.
"A picture is worth a thousand words"

You state you never go after pepole "really" go back and look at some of your posts.
You consistently call hunters unethical, because they use salt licks, apples and other attractant. You consistently call hunters unethical because they use cameras.
I guess attacking pepole for the way they like to hunt is not personal.
 
Man that bait ban really wadded your panties didn't it?

Do you own an apple orchard and lost your customers?



Look at the chief sponsor.

Casey Snider.

Bait ban, cam ban, now going after the outfitters.

Imagine how pissed they are. They've owned the WB for years, stopping anything that hurt them, so now WE have someone they don't own.

Heaton has got to ready to blow
 
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notdonhunting said:
I will apologize for calling you liar, but the pic was deceptive at best.
No explanation for the picture
Yes SS did post
"wtf so no more pics with 30 utards in them"
How is posting the pic you posted let's pepole know you are showing it is going on in Arizona too.
"A picture is worth a thousand words"

You state you never go after pepole "really" go back and look at some of your posts.
You consistently call hunters unethical, because they use salt licks, apples and other attractant. You consistently call hunters unethical because they use cameras.
I guess attacking pepole for the way they like to hunt is not personal.
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You're wrong again. Here's a search of every time I've used the word, "unethical" and not one of them is referring to a person.

Screenshot_20220227-123035_Samsung Internet.jpg


It is completely appropriate to have hypothetical conversations about ethics (something that is admittedly individual and we're all entitled to our opinions about) and not call the actual person unethical.

You've now made two false statements today and it's not even lunch time. I'm done with you.
 
notdonhunting said:
I will apologize for calling you liar, but the pic was deceptive at best.
No explanation for the picture
Yes SS did post
"wtf so no more pics with 30 utards in them"
How is posting the pic you posted let's pepole know you are showing it is going on in Arizona too.
"A picture is worth a thousand words"

You state you never go after pepole "really" go back and look at some of your posts.
You consistently call hunters unethical, because they use salt licks, apples and other attractant. You consistently call hunters unethical because they use cameras.
I guess attacking pepole for the way they like to hunt is not personal.
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I drink and post too. What’s your poison?
 
grizzly said:
You're wrong again. Here's a search of every time I've used the word, "unethical" and not one of them is referring to a person.

View attachment 69489

It is completely appropriate to have hypothetical conversations about ethics (something that is admittedly individual and we're all entitled to our opinions about) and not call the actual person unethical.

You've now made two false statements today and it's not even lunch time. I'm done with you.
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Grizzlies usually have thick skin. You’re more of a panda ?
 
So nobody is concerned about the fact that Rep Casey Snider pushed a bill written by a extreme leftist environmental group, established in CA but has now moved to Utah? Oh, and the bill doesn’t carry implications for guides alone but instead, effects anyone—A N Y O N E—who has been “compensated” while hunting. And in this bill, “compensated” means anything of value in excess of $25. It actually means, intentionally or otherwise, that if there are more than two other people on your hunt, and one of them has loaned you their rifle, or their spotting scope, maybe let you use their side by side or given you a box of bullets, and that value is in excess of $25 dollars, you have just committed a crime. You don’t have to keep the rifle or spotting scope, you just have to have burrowed it.

So maybe you don’t need any of those things? Okay, fine, but what if someone in your camp has given you a few burgers or steak dinners and a couple beers each night while you’re all sitting around the camp fire? Well congratulations, you’re now a criminal.

Disagree with me? You need to read it very carefully and tell me where not being a guide gives you an out? Though it talks about guides and outfitters, I think everyone can agree that most of the guys that ultimately get paid a finders fee are not registered Guides or Outfitters, or, in the very least, don’t work directly for a guide that would pay those kinds of fees. If that were the case, that would be a loophole in this law the size of Texas.

Make no mistake, this is a total dead of the night hijacking of your personal hunting rights. It doesn’t deal with just outfitters and guides. This bill was written in such a way that the average guy will perceive it as a non issue for them and their group of friends but that’s simply not the case.
 
Sonofthesouth said:
So nobody is concerned about the fact that Rep Casey Snider pushed a bill written by a extreme leftist environmental group, established in CA but has now moved to Utah? Oh, and the bill doesn’t carry implications for guides alone but instead, effects anyone—A N Y O N E—who has been “compensated” while hunting. And in this bill, “compensated” means anything of value in excess of $25. It actually means, intentionally or otherwise, that if there are more than two other people on your hunt, and one of them has loaned you their rifle, or their spotting scope, maybe let you use their side by side or given you a box of bullets, and that value is in excess of $25 dollars, you have just committed a crime. You don’t have to keep the rifle or spotting scope, you just have to have burrowed it.

So maybe you don’t need any of those things? Okay, fine, but what if someone in your camp has given you a few burgers or steak dinners and a couple beers each night while you’re all sitting around the camp fire? Well congratulations, you’re now a criminal.

Disagree with me? You need to read it very carefully and tell me where not being a guide gives you an out? Though it talks about guides and outfitters, I think everyone can agree that most of the guys that ultimately get paid a finders fee are not registered Guides or Outfitters, or, in the very least, don’t work directly for a guide that would pay those kinds of fees. If that were the case, that would be a loophole in this law the size of Texas.

Make no mistake, this is a total dead of the night hijacking of your personal hunting rights. It doesn’t deal with just outfitters and guides. This bill was written in such a way that the average guy will perceive it as a non issue for them and their group of friends but that’s simply not the case.
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I’m guessing bud light?
 
Sonofthesouth said:
So nobody is concerned about the fact that Rep Casey Snider pushed a bill written by a extreme leftist environmental group, established in CA but has now moved to Utah? Oh, and the bill doesn’t carry implications for guides alone but instead, effects anyone—A N Y O N E—who has been “compensated” while hunting. And in this bill, “compensated” means anything of value in excess of $25. It actually means, intentionally or otherwise, that if there are more than two other people on your hunt, and one of them has loaned you their rifle, or their spotting scope, maybe let you use their side by side or given you a box of bullets, and that value is in excess of $25 dollars, you have just committed a crime. You don’t have to keep the rifle or spotting scope, you just have to have burrowed it.

So maybe you don’t need any of those things? Okay, fine, but what if someone in your camp has given you a few burgers or steak dinners and a couple beers each night while you’re all sitting around the camp fire? Well congratulations, you’re now a criminal.

Disagree with me? You need to read it very carefully and tell me where not being a guide gives you an out? Though it talks about guides and outfitters, I think everyone can agree that most of the guys that ultimately get paid a finders fee are not registered Guides or Outfitters, or, in the very least, don’t work directly for a guide that would pay those kinds of fees. If that were the case, that would be a loophole in this law the size of Texas.

Make no mistake, this is a total dead of the night hijacking of your personal hunting rights. It doesn’t deal with just outfitters and guides. This bill was written in such a way that the average guy will perceive it as a non issue for them and their group of friends but that’s simply not the case.
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Haha. First post ever and this is it? ?
 
Why has Sneider taken it upon himself and his politician buddies to take such a keen interest in wildlife management? These bills are past with no vote/input from the people it impacts. He pushes his own agenda on all of us. We've turned to politicians to manage our hunting heritage.....that's NEVER a good thing.
 
Thanks Son!

I Often Wondered If He Some How Made It with all the BS That Goes on in Today's Hunting World!

You Seen Any even Close To Him in Recent Years?

Sonofthesouth said:
Negative. Found a complete set of his sheds—same year. 209 net typical 262 net non typ. Glad he bested us. Score one for the good guys
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Bigwiffy said:
Why has Sneider taken it upon himself and his politician buddies to take such a keen interest in wildlife management? These bills are past with no vote/input from the people it impacts. He pushes his own agenda on all of us. We've turned to politicians to manage our hunting heritage.....that's NEVER a good thing.
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Grooming. You can bet there are others behind the scene encouraging him. And to be honest some of this needs to be done.
 
Bigwiffy said:
We've turned to politicians to manage our hunting.....that's NEVER a good thing.
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You do realize the Wildlife Board is nominated by the Governor, right?

Prop 5 was a ballot initiative.

The Expo was created by legislation.

Constitutional Hunting was approved by voters.

Utah's wildlife has been managed by politicians for a long time.
 
grizzly said:
You do realize the Wildlife Board is nominated by the Governor, right?

Prop 5 was a ballot initiative.

The Expo was created by legislation.

Constitutional Hunting was approved by voters.

Utah's wildlife has been managed by politicians for a long time.
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And Managed Just Like Our TAX Dollars,Right?
 
grizzly said:
You do realize the Wildlife Board is nominated by the Governor, right?

Prop 5 was a ballot initiative.

The Expo was created by legislation.

Constitutional Hunting was approved by voters.

Utah's wildlife has been managed by politicians for a long time.
Click to expand...
Not to this extent, not by one Politician pushing his own agenda. None of these recent changes have gone to a public vote. You do realize that right Panda? Prop 5 was setup to avoid what Sneider is doing. Putting the decisions in the publics hands, not in his own.
 
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Bigwiffy said:
Not to this extent, not by one Politician pushing his own agenda. None of these recent changes have gone to a public vote. You do realize that right Panda? Prop 5 was setup to avoid what Sneider is doing. Putting the decisions in the publics hands, not in his own.
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I know you're just trolling, but I'll use the opportunity to point out this bill passed 68-4 in the House and 69-0 in the Senate.

It's probably the same 15 guys whining on MM and not actually doing anything that got this passed.

We finally have an outdoorsman in the legislature instead of just another attorney or developer. Thank goodness.
 
I find it interesting those that say the legislature shouldn’t get involved.

Does everyone realize the Wildlife Board only has power that the legislature gave it? The legislature could end the wildlife board tomorrow in a bill and take back ALL wildlife regulation to itself.

I’ve done some digging around on this. What I see happening right now: The wildlife board in Utah has ignored “the people” for so long that they don’t care and have become completely unconcerned what the average sportsman thinks. They have zero accountability to the public as they are not elected, and that has shown clear for close to two decades now. SFW in particular, and outfitters have completely ruled the roost and put a strangle hold on hunting in Utah. Again, this has flown in the face of the people because the wildlife board is not accountable. You know who is subject to the people? Those that govern and make the laws for the wildlife board. And a WHOLE TON of people have been contacting their elected officials that make the rules to state their displeasure with this. Seriously, Utah hunters are fed up with getting crapped on in favor of a few special interests. This has been a few years coming. There has been a storm brewing and now you’re seeing the beginning of the consequences of the last 15-20 years of running wild.

Seriously, there are legislators that are completely fed up with some of these practices and now they’re acting on that frustration. If you think Casey Snider is driving this bus then I’ve got some ocean front property for you just outside of Tucson. The message is being sent loud and clear to the special interest groups above and to the wildlife board. The legislature will rein you in if you won’t control yourself. The tides are changing. I’ve said it before, I’ll say it again. The tides are changing. There will be more to come if those groups try fighting back. That much I know.
 
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grizzly said:
I know you're just trolling, but I'll use the opportunity to point out this bill passed 68-4 in the House and 69-0 in the Senate.

It's probably the same 15 guys whining on MM and not actually doing anything that got this passed.

We finally have an outdoorsman in the legislature instead of just another attorney or developer. Thank goodness.
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There is nobody in the senate or the house that cares about what's good or bad for public wildlife. You're comfortable putting the future of our hunting in the hands of 140 Politicians that don't know the difference between a whitetail or mule deer?

My point being it's a slippery slope the direction we are headed. Put the decisions in the hands of our biologists and division, not in the hands of one Politician with a personal agenda. The way it's headed the public average guy will have 0 voice before long.

I do agree the Board has its issues. You are always right though Panda just ask you...
 
Bigwiffy said:
Put the decisions in the hands of our biologists and division, not in the hands of one Politician with a personal agenda.
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Could not agree more! So you agree we should get rid of the wildlife board?


Bigwiffy said:
The way it's headed the public average guy will have 0 voice before long.
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Show me when, until recently since the legislature has become involved, that the public average guy has had a voice the last 15 years. That time does not exist. We’re not headed that way, we’ve been that way for close to 20 years.

But things are changing.
 
My point about HB62, as currently written, is that legislation like this ends up effecting the small operator more than the stated target. There will be families and friends that aren’t professionals, that just want to make the most of a hard to draw tag, that are going to get swept up in this law and punished. Screen shot this and let’s talk again next year. If I’m wrong I’ll buy the Coke Zeros, the Busch Light and the Crown ?
 
Sonofthesouth said:
My point about HB62, as currently written, is that legislation like this ends up effecting the small operator more than the stated target. There will be families and friends that aren’t professionals, that just want to make the most of a hard to draw tag, that are going to get swept up in this law and punished. Screen shot this and let’s talk again next year. If I’m wrong I’ll buy the Coke Zeros, the Busch Light and the Crown ?
Click to expand...

I’ll take that bet.
 
I’ll state clearly my position so there isn’t any mistake. No true DIY hunter that simply has family and friends tagging along will get charged criminally under this new law.

You might see some people trying to call themselves DIY hunters who really aren’t that get busted, but this will not be enforced against DIY hunters that borrow a rifle, or lend out their spotting scope, etc. as mentioned above. That’s not happening.
 
Vanilla said:
I’ll state clearly my position so there isn’t any mistake. No true DIY hunter that simply has family and friends tagging along will get charged criminally under this new law.

You might see some people trying to call themselves DIY hunters who really aren’t that get busted, but this will not be enforced against DIY hunters that borrow a rifle, or lend out their spotting scope, etc. as mentioned above. That’s not happening.
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Well sir, you have a great degree more trust in the law, the game and fish departments and our elected officials then I do. 28 years of working in government tells me to read and believe the text and not try and guess what individuals may or may not do.
 
I don’t have 28 years in, but I’ve got about 15 analyzing this specific stuff. So may have a different perspective.

I love forward to drinking a Dew Zero on you as we talk some hunting and fishing.
 
elkassassin said:
And Tell Us How It Will Be Enforced?
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It will be enforced like all other laws... Citizens report it, police investigate it, and the courts prosecute it. There's no trick to it, and there's not easy results when laws are broken.

You could ask this same question of ALL laws... I used to ask the same question... no longer. Citizens are responsible for reporting broken laws, or what we believe to be broken laws. Then the burden is on the state to prove it. That's how it works.
 
Silentstalker said:
That was Arizona but scenes like that play out every year here in Utah too.

Remember the spider bull? No shenanigans there… Competition for inches and big money never really benefits the animal or the public. But it does kill big critters.

Only trouble is this will be unenforceable. No way to track under the table pmts to “friends” tagging along. I have a feeling the number of guides in the pictures won’t change, just the way they are compensated.
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It is just as enforceable as any other crime... The criminal Justice system is 100% dependent on everyday citizens who see something, to say something... Poaching is unenforceable, until someone gets a little drunk and shows their neighbor the elk racks out in their shed and says a little too much... then the DWR gets called by the neighbor. Boom, poacher caught.

In this case... A mighty bull shows up on social media with an outfitter's watermark. The yahoo that sold them the location says to his friends, "I found that bull! Bought my new gun with the fee they paid me for doin nothin but check my trail camera!" Boom- caught.
 
Bigwiffy said:
Not to this extent, not by one Politician pushing his own agenda. None of these recent changes have gone to a public vote. You do realize that right Panda? Prop 5 was setup to avoid what Sneider is doing. Putting the decisions in the publics hands, not in his own.
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But you understand how a representative government works, right? We vote in our politicians, who then act in the best interest of the constituents. If they don't, they are voted out. Then the next one can go in and change things so that people are 'happy'.
 
Vanilla said:
I’ll state clearly my position so there isn’t any mistake. No true DIY hunter that simply has family and friends tagging along will NOT get charged criminally under this new law.

You might see some people trying to call themselves DIY hunters who really aren’t that get busted, but this will not be enforced against DIY hunters that borrow a rifle, or lend out their spotting scope, etc. as mentioned above. That’s not happening.
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My attempt to be "clear" ended up being anything but clear. See my edit above in BOLD. I do NOT believe anyone will be charged with a crime in 2022 under the above circumstances.
 
So instead of the Outfitter paying all the extra helpers, the client will now be required to pay them cash under the table. This will only hurt the guys that obey the law to the letter, which I don't there are that many of. I never did see the difference between hiring 5 guys to help, or having 5 friends come along?
 
BrowningRage said:
But you understand how a representative government works, right? We vote in our politicians, who then act in the best interest of the constituents. If they don't, they are voted out. Then the next one can go in and change things so that people are 'happy'.
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Let me help connect the synapses for you. You actually summed up my point. What Sneider has done has opened up Pandoras box. So instead of our public wildlife board managing our deer and elk herds we have willingly given full reign to "elected" leftist politicians men and women to manage our herds. So you are saying you are totally fine with Jenny Wilson, Spencer Cox, Mitt Romney managing our herds???

I don't think the Wildlife Board should be comprised of special interest groups like it is now. Houndsman, Cattlemen, Guides. It should be comprised of biologists that are in the field understanding reality.

But hey if you put all your trust in Casey Sneider, Jenny Wilson, Mendenhall and Mitt to bring our deer herds back more power to you......you're giving yours and mine all to them anyway. Maybe they can build tiny houses for them all to live in in the winter and they can summer in Pioner Park.
 
So Son?

I Remember a Bunch of MM Scuffle over The Buck!

But I Can't Remember what the Deal Was?

Can You Refresh My Memory Loss?
 
That was along time ago, but it seems to me this used car dealer-ish kinda guy who owned this magazine rag was long on pushy and arrogance and short on reasons why I should sell the buck to him and his footlong hoagie friend.

Pretty sure the whole thing is what led to my exodus from the hunting inter webs
 
Sonofthesouth said:
So nobody is concerned about the fact that Rep Casey Snider pushed a bill written by a extreme leftist environmental group, established in CA but has now moved to Utah? Oh, and the bill doesn’t carry implications for guides alone but instead, effects anyone—A N Y O N E—who has been “compensated” while hunting. And in this bill, “compensated” means anything of value in excess of $25. It actually means, intentionally or otherwise, that if there are more than two other people on your hunt, and one of them has loaned you their rifle, or their spotting scope, maybe let you use their side by side or given you a box of bullets, and that value is in excess of $25 dollars, you have just committed a crime. You don’t have to keep the rifle or spotting scope, you just have to have burrowed it.

So maybe you don’t need any of those things? Okay, fine, but what if someone in your camp has given you a few burgers or steak dinners and a couple beers each night while you’re all sitting around the camp fire? Well congratulations, you’re now a criminal.

Disagree with me? You need to read it very carefully and tell me where not being a guide gives you an out? Though it talks about guides and outfitters, I think everyone can agree that most of the guys that ultimately get paid a finders fee are not registered Guides or Outfitters, or, in the very least, don’t work directly for a guide that would pay those kinds of fees. If that were the case, that would be a loophole in this law the size of Texas.

Make no mistake, this is a total dead of the night hijacking of your personal hunting rights. It doesn’t deal with just outfitters and guides. This bill was written in such a way that the average guy will perceive it as a non issue for them and their group of friends but that’s simply not the case.
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Doyle? Thanks for joining and pointing out the green decoy amongst us
 
To further back Vanilla point.

March 10 the wildlife board gets a shot to show who it bows to. The outfitters, made an end run on the board itself via legislative loophole.

The board show unanimously vote to back the ban now, if for no other reason than to not allow that game to be played again.

If they backtrack at all, I for one will start pressure to disolve the WB. And my first contact will be Casey.

Now. How to enforce.

Look no further than Waldrips bull up North.

A bull, 5ish hours from either of the guides who's watermark are on the pics, who magically get that bull, might make a LEO Spidey senses tingle.

Next. IG. Yup, IG. Outfitters got to fill the web with their kills. Dudes recognize dudes. First IG post with a "couple if good friends", gets recognized as outfitter employees, boom.

Further. Dudes can't shut up. How do you prove your alpha male level, if you can't post pics? How many poachers get caught that just have to post, and then get nailed.

Truth is, just like with cams, the outfitters have pissed off a lot of guys over the years. Guys who don't like their buisness practices,guys who have had their LE, or OIL hunts ruined by the spotter armies, or just guys who didn't like that nebo sheep rubbed in their face. Regardless, it will get enforcement.

This is 100% a follow up bill to the bait ban, and cam bill. The outfitters were very public with their "we kill the biggest and the best anyway" bragging. Everyone knows how they do it, it's not a secret, so now they get their chance.

I'm betting we will hear again how drought hurt them, just like the drought after the bait ban
 
Im not sure why I am even posting on this, cause the more I read the more I realize there are way too many over-opinionated people on here.
Here are some observations that scare me a bit. I think certain people in Utah are trying to WAY overGOVERN everything. I can see that there are already laws that make most everything people ***** about on here illegal. Do they get enforced...no...Its impossible to enforce them. Im sure some outfitters do some shady stuff...Have I ever encountered a road being blocked by Doyle...no...has it happened...maybe.. Is it illegal yes.. will more rules help? no...

I think hunters in general are som of them most jealous people in the world...and more and more look like a bunch of damn liberals in DC. If I don't like it...lets make a law against it..

Why is it so hard to see this? It only affects the honest..
 
grizzly said:
Really? Your friends must be better hunters than mine, because my buddies aren't good enough to be on Doyle's payroll.
Click to expand...
I've never had more than maybe 2-3 helpers at one time on any of my, or my families hunts, and it's usually just me. I did hire a houndsman once upon a time to run some dogs for a Bear, but that's the extent of me hiring people to help.

I don't think you can set laws based on someone's skill level, it has to be number based, and it still seems funny to me that paid helpers are a no-no, but volunteers can be limitless.
 
hoss said:
Im not sure why I am even posting on this, cause the more I read the more I realize there are way too many over-opinionated people on here.
Here are some observations that scare me a bit. I think certain people in Utah are trying to WAY overGOVERN everything. I can see that there are already laws that make most everything people ***** about on here illegal. Do they get enforced...no...Its impossible to enforce them. Im sure some outfitters do some shady stuff...Have I ever encountered a road being blocked by Doyle...no...has it happened...maybe.. Is it illegal yes.. will more rules help? no...

I think hunters in general are som of them most jealous people in the world...and more and more look like a bunch of damn liberals in DC. If I don't like it...lets make a law against it..

Why is it so hard to see this? It only affects the honest..
Click to expand...
Well said. The answer to most problems is rarely "more Government"
 
hoss said:
Im not sure why I am even posting on this, cause the more I read the more I realize there are way too many over-opinionated people on here.
Here are some observations that scare me a bit. I think certain people in Utah are trying to WAY overGOVERN everything. I can see that there are already laws that make most everything people ***** about on here illegal. Do they get enforced...no...Its impossible to enforce them. Im sure some outfitters do some shady stuff...Have I ever encountered a road being blocked by Doyle...no...has it happened...maybe.. Is it illegal yes.. will more rules help? no...

I think hunters in general are som of them most jealous people in the world...and more and more look like a bunch of damn liberals in DC. If I don't like it...lets make a law against it..

Why is it so hard to see this? It only affects the honest..
Click to expand...


Really?

How so?

Until the bait ban, what did Utah crack back on?

We legit had dudes using thermal imaging.

Our "primitive" weapons are mounted with 20x scopes and shoot 600 yards or more.

Our forests look like Hollywood sound stages. The desert was covered in apples.


Corporations pay spotters, then pay sitters. Outfitters openly post cam pics of animals to target, looking to entice customers.

We pimp out over 500 tags a year.

The board whose job it is to control things, has been owned by a special interest group.

Ya. Utah is Waaaaaaay over governed ?
Ya. Utah is Waaaaaaaaay over governed

We start chasing deer in August, don't stop until November, then harass them come February.

We hunt elk 6months of the year.

Just too much governing?
 
257Tony said:
I've never had more than maybe 2-3 helpers at one time on any of my, or my families hunts, and it's usually just me. I did hire a houndsman once upon a time to run some dogs for a Bear, but that's the extent of me hiring people to help.

I don't think you can set laws based on someone's skill level, it has to be number based, and it still seems funny to me that paid helpers are a no-no, but volunteers can be limitless.
Click to expand...


You know a lot of volunteers that sit on an animal 24/7 for days at a time waiting for you to fly in? You must have way better buddies than the rest of us
 
257Tony said:
Well said. The answer to most problems is rarely "more Government"
Click to expand...


Your right. The answer would be checking one's self.

That bird flew the coup years ago.

$300,000 deer created this.

As an average dude, I've grown REAL SICK of the corporate class, who at every turn will burn is, take from us, lobby against us.

Then, here they come running squealing, because they had a rule go against them.


THEY AINT YOUR FRIEND. You are there competition. They would gladly not have any of us in the field, and will do anything they can to make that happen.

The bait ban wasnt because you poured out a bag of salt.

The cam ban wasn't because you ran a couple cams.

This bill isn't because you hunt with your buddies.


They are because of what outfitting has become, and what it is doing.

We ain't in the same boat. They blew holes in the boat, filled it with rocks, and bailed a long time ago, happy to let you go down with the ship.

KNUCKLEHEAD
 

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