What Is Long Range?

slamdunk

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So the majority of people here bashing "long range hunting" are Somehow convinced that if a buck escapes a bullet from 600+ yards, that buck will live on out of harms way and survive for the remainder of the seasons ahead without the possibility of getting killed by a road hunter.

Somehow our high success rates on rifle hunts is to be blamed on the 2% who are well skilled "long range shooters".

And for the love of God, will someone please enlighten us who have asked a thousand times "WHAT IS CONSIDERED LONG RANGE"?
 
My Inline Compared To My HAWKENS Is Considered LongRange!

My Compound Compared To My Re-curve Is Considered LongRange!

My LongRange Rifle Compared To My First Rifle Is Considered LongRange!
Right?
That definitely seems to be a few people's consensus.

My Lapua CAN kill at 1000 yards, but it doesn't.
My Knight muzzy CAN kill at 400, but it doesn't.
My PSE has lied in its case (casket) since about 1995 because I had lost the last deer I ever wanted to lose.

So because I have tools that CAN, i am automatically grouped into the 2% which are driving the success rates too high which somehow has wiped out not only all our bucks, but all the does as well and am to be blamed for decimating our herds.
Sounds like 4.3 GPA logic to me??‍♂️
 
150 yds further than your own personal ability to effectively shoot a rifle, 100 yds for a muzzleloader, 50 yds for a bow.
You said the magical words RR....."personal ability"

Be very careful with your words, Bess posted a guy killing a steel plate at 3000 yards.
Guys with that ability will polish off the rest of our game ?
 
So the majority of people here bashing "long range hunting" are Somehow convinced that if a buck escapes a bullet from 600+ yards, that buck will live on out of harms way and survive for the remainder of the seasons ahead without the possibility of getting killed by a road hunter.

Somehow our high success rates on rifle hunts is to be blamed on the 2% who are well skilled "long range shooters".

And for the love of God, will someone please enlighten us who have asked a thousand times "WHAT IS CONSIDERED LONG RANGE"?
Lots of assumptions in your post regarding the thoughts of other hunters.

Cool ranch Doritos eater?
 
Ya!

And What's Scary is He Was Hitting It With An Unpredictable Wind!

I Kinda Liked The Wind Sock Though!:D




You said the magical words RR....."personal ability"

Be very careful with your words, Bess posted a guy killing a steel plate at 3000 yards.
Guys with that ability will polish off the rest of our game ?
 
Sounds like there’s a million definitions. But I’m sure state legislators and the wildlife board will give us one when they make their own definition that comes with restrictions
 
You said the magical words RR....."personal ability"

Be very careful with your words, Bess posted a guy killing a steel plate at 3000 yards.
Guys with that ability will polish off the rest of our game ?

I'm not too worried. It took him several rounds to hit a 2 ft square plate...
 
I never whined, complained, was jealous, or even cared about how or what you chose to hunt with. It never/doesn't/won't impact how I choose to hunt. Many of you care what everybody else is doing. Slam you and many like you are/were the biggest cry baby claiming that bait, archery, cams were the absolute downfall of the deer population. The jealousy of what the guides/archery hunters are killing is what started this BS bottom line. Now the tables have turned and you could potentially lose the way you like to hunt you are singing a different tune. That My friend is called hypocrisy. I don't care how you or anybody else hunts......you do. None of this will help deer herds, it's all garbage and has been brought on by guys whining about how Mossback, WLH, Frank, John, Bob killed their big buck or bull. Who cares how they killed it, bucks don't grow the herds anyway right? It won't bother me a bit if you go out and kill a big old buck with your Lapua from however far you want to shoot it from, but it bothers you that I kill a big buck with my bow over a waterhole, hayfield, salt block apple pile. Why you so concerned about me and guys like me and how we choose to hunt is my question to you?
 
Ya…we will need you to complete a shooting test and whatever the result is, we will need to hold you to that while in the field. Capeesh
 
If a hunter feels like they need to place a placard next to their kill with the yardage then that is long range.

Not sure where that 2% number is coming from? Please note the study. You think all those LR rifle booths at the expo are built off the 2% ? My anecdotal evidence from the people I deal with (hundreds of big game hunters every year) is the number of people looking to significantly extend their range is way higher than 2%.

Animals aren't gongs.
 
I have no issues with long range rifles, magnums have been around since early 1900's.
Scopes and range finders have made them capable of what they can do.

Again, "what is long range"?
Is it because a guy like me has a turret scope but I still limit myself on my ability to 500 yards on game?

Yes I have issues with Apple piles and "excessive cameras", but it didn't start with me, I just support the obvious issues they have brought to the "industry".

Wiff can keep all his archery gadgets, he obviously trusts his judgment and shooting abilities, therefore I don't call him "guilty by association".
 
I have no issues with long range rifles, magnums have been around since early 1900's.
Scopes and range finders have made them capable of what they can do.

Again, "what is long range"?
Is it because a guy like me has a turret scope but I still limit myself on my ability to 500 yards on game?

Yes I have issues with Apple piles and "excessive cameras", but it didn't start with me, I just support the obvious issues they have brought to the "industry".

Wiff can keep all his archery gadgets, he obviously trusts his judgment and shooting abilities, therefore I don't call him "guilty by association".
But why are you so concerned with how other people choose to hunt? This is a social issue, why are you worried about what everyone else is doing if it's legal? I'm not placing blame squarely on you Slam, but you and guys like you have whined loud enough for social change, now it's coming back around to bite you, and you don't like it? You don't call me guilty, but you sure have cried about the way I and many others choose to hunt.

If it's social issues what are your social issues with trail cameras, baiting, archery? Is it you made one poor shot with a bow 25 years ago and now think everyone wounds deer every year with a bow, and a rifle is better? Is it you had a sour experience on the Paunsaugunt and didn't kill as big of buck as you thought you should have, so it's the guides and archery hunters fault there was no big bucks left for you? Help me understand why you and others are so concerned with how we choose to hunt? These are labeled as social issues so what are your social issues?
 
@Bigwiffy
If you cannot see anything wrong with this scenario in the picture, then we no longer have anything to discuss on this topic.
Screenshot_20200304-174921_Gallery.jpg
 
@Bigwiffy
If you cannot see anything wrong with this scenario in the picture, then we no longer have anything to discuss on this topic.
View attachment 71419
How does that impact you? You mad one of those bucks died? You mad it's bigger than one you killed? The buck wasn't there for you when you drew the tag? You just think that it's not right? You feel entitled to shoot one of those bucks over the guy in the blind? I could post up endless long range rifle shots and say the same thing, but I don't because you know why? I don't care how others choose to hunt. That picture is on a LE unit where 95% of us will never have the opportunity to hunt. Why does that picture bother you so bad? If that buck was 500 yards on a hillside and gets killed by a riflehunter off their side by side that doesn't bother you because you are personally are ok with that? I don't agree with many guys on this site, but the difference is I don't whine and cry to change the rules because I don't like it. You do.
 
I think the term is not actually "social issue", but the age-old "ethical issue".

Unfortunately, "ethical" is completely and totally relative to the individual. We all know there are people who think it's "ethical" to kill an animal anytime they want. Or to kill an animal and leave it to rot. Or to do all sorts of things to cheat our system for their own personal gain. I believe ethics is closely related to integrity and doing the right thing, even when nobody will ever know.

I think a shot becomes "long range" (as a dirty word) when you choose to move away from your target in order for the distance to be "more impressive".
 
How does that impact you? You mad one of those bucks died? You mad it's bigger than one you killed? The buck wasn't there for you when you drew the tag? You just think that it's not right? You feel entitled to shoot one of those bucks over the guy in the blind? I could post up endless long range rifle shots and say the same thing, but I don't because you know why? I don't care how others choose to hunt. That picture is on a LE unit where 95% of us will never have the opportunity to hunt. Why does that picture bother you so bad? If that buck was 500 yards on a hillside and gets killed by a riflehunter off their side by side that doesn't bother you because you are personally are ok with that? I don't agree with many guys on this site, but the difference is I don't whine and cry to change the rules because I don't like it. You do.

You need to check your blood sugar big guy, You're saying some crazy stuff.
 
How does that impact you? You mad one of those bucks died? You mad it's bigger than one you killed? The buck wasn't there for you when you drew the tag? You just think that it's not right? You feel entitled to shoot one of those bucks over the guy in the blind? I could post up endless long range rifle shots and say the same thing, but I don't because you know why? I don't care how others choose to hunt. That picture is on a LE unit where 95% of us will never have the opportunity to hunt. Why does that picture bother you so bad? If that buck was 500 yards on a hillside and gets killed by a riflehunter off their side by side that doesn't bother you because you are personally are ok with that? I don't agree with many guys on this site, but the difference is I don't whine and cry to change the rules because I don't like it. You do.

The problem Wiffy, is that (especially in Utah), our DNR reduces opportunity through tag restrictions in order to grow trophy animals on public lands... and then we have to watch them get killed over a pile of apples like any high fenced, deer-feeder ranch in Texas... If you want to shoot animals over bait- you are free to go do it at anytime, on any number of deer farm/ranches. But don't expect us to be okay with it on our public lands where we all are sacrificing in order to ensure opportunity to hunt big game under fair chase conditions...
 
I think the term is not actually "social issue", but the age-old "ethical issue".

Unfortunately, "ethical" is completely and totally relative to the individual. We all know there are people who think it's "ethical" to kill an animal anytime they want. Or to kill an animal and leave it to rot. Or to do all sorts of things to cheat our system for their own personal gain. I believe ethics is closely related to integrity and doing the right thing, even when nobody will ever know.

I think a shot becomes "long range" (as a dirty word) when you choose to move away from your target in order for the distance to be "more impressive".
If it’s totally and completely relative to the individual, it’s a social issue. LR definition is shooting at distances near or past what your personal limitations are to make a clean, quick kill. Which personal limitations vary so the definition is different for everyone. So how does the state/WB define that, regulate/restrict it?
 
The problem Wiffy, is that (especially in Utah), our DNR reduces opportunity through tag restrictions in order to grow trophy animals on public lands... and then we have to watch them get killed over a pile of apples like any high fenced, deer-feeder ranch in Texas... If you want to shoot animals over bait- you are free to go do it at anytime, on any number of deer farm/ranches. But don't expect us to be okay with it on our public lands where we all are sacrificing in order to ensure opportunity to hunt big game under fair chase conditions...
You're speaking as if everyone agrees with you. You don't have to hunt over a pile of apples, you don't have to use cameras, you don't have to be bothered by what others are doing, but you are and because of that you want everyone to agree with you and hunt how you see is the right way to hunt? There are other ways to kill big deer other than sitting a bait. Is your hunt ruined because some guy killed a big buck that you are entitled to kill? That's a pathetic rationale imo. I don't agree with killing an animal from a 1000 yards but guess what I'm not advocating to change the rules because I don't agree with it. I've sat over apples, I've sat over salt, guess where I've killed my biggest and most deer? Spot and stalk, and coming in and out of hayfields setup on their travel patterns after scouting all summer. Should we ban hayfields, should we ban being able to stalk animals in their bed, or is that ok socially?

We've created a cancel culture in our hunting communities. I don't like how you hunt, I don't like the way you are doing it, because it's not my way or the right way. Let's ban your way and keep my way.
 
So Wiffy where are you going to draw a line if you don't care how "professional hunters" are taking YOUR trophy animals?
If you were in charge, technology would have no limits because you said you don't care how others do it, correct?

In your mind it's perfectly ok to bait animals with a completely non native chum and have multiple cameras telling you which pile, which particular buck and at what time your target animal is hitting it so you don't have to waist your precious time out in the field.

Yet you criticize a guy who sits patiently, watches a normal feeding area and can shoot 500 yards, killing his target completely natural.

I'm not saying YOU hunt as I described, your personal standards of ethics may be higher, but you ARE saying loud and clear "i don't care how people hunt, unless it's with a long range weapon".

Lets not compare "hypocrisy" here please.
 
So Wiffy where are you going to draw a line if you don't care how "professional hunters" are taking YOUR trophy animals?
If you were in charge, technology would have no limits because you said you don't care how others do it, correct?

In your mind it's perfectly ok to bait animals with a completely non native chum and have multiple cameras telling you which pile, which particular buck and at what time your target animal is hitting it so you don't have to waist your precious time out in the field.

Yet you criticize a guy who sits patiently, watches a normal feeding area and can shoot 500 yards, killing his target completely natural.

I'm not saying YOU hunt as I described, your personal standards of ethics may be higher, but you ARE saying loud and clear "i don't care how people hunt, unless it's with a long range weapon".

Lets not compare "hypocrisy" here please.
Haha Slam I really respect this post, but again you prove my point. Killing something with a modern, scoped, rifle from 500 yards isn't a "natural" way to kill sorry. It's what you think is more right though....you see that's the problem. That's fine to think that, but I'm not pontificating my opinion on you like you are to me and guys like me. If that's what you think is more natural and superior way to kill I say have at it! Just don't tell me my way is wrong and cry about it.
 
Haha Slam I really respect this post, but again you prove my point. Killing something with a modern, scoped, rifle from 500 yards isn't a "natural" way to kill sorry. It's what you think is more right though....you see that's the problem. That's fine to think that, but I'm not pontificating my opinion on you like you are to me and guys like me. If that's what you think is more natural and superior way to kill I say have at it! Just don't tell me my way is wrong and cry about it.
Ok let's move on to elk.....I've got you back.
 
Having not read the entire post I apologize if this is redundant.
I submit long range is anything that exceeds point blank range. Understanding that can mean different distance for the size of the vitals. However once you start compensating for bullet drop, hold over or dialing IMO you have entered the realm of long range.
 
Both MM gladiators (slam and bigWiff) have made excellent points.

The one thing that leaves a turd-taste in my mouth faster than than anything is added feel-good regulations for regulation's sake and which has no real benefit to overall herd health.

You all and I can always find a way to hunt, no matter what, but lets do it based on our own ethics and without all the social shaming that's been floated around. Hopefully we don't turn into the cancel-culture.

Social media will continue to drive regulations because as a guy posts a hunt, someone will get their feelings hurt or jealousy rears it's ugly head.

Crazy world in which we live!

Zeke
 
Having not read the entire post I apologize if this is redundant.
I submit long range is anything that exceeds point blank range. Understanding that can mean different distance for the size of the vitals. However once you start compensating for bullet drop, hold over or dialing IMO you have entered the realm of long range.

Hold over is a function of zero point. Zero for 400, and you will rarely be "long range".
 
Haha Slam I really respect this post, but again you prove my point. Killing something with a modern, scoped, rifle from 500 yards isn't a "natural" way to kill sorry. It's what you think is more right though....you see that's the problem. That's fine to think that, but I'm not pontificating my opinion on you like you are to me and guys like me. If that's what you think is more natural and superior way to kill I say have at it! Just don't tell me my way is wrong and cry about it.
I agree with BigW. It's a social issue. If it was an ethical issue, rim fire and center fire weapons would have no place in the killing of any game.
 
500 yard kills were taking place long before "gadgetry" came into hunting.
Roy Weatherby started back in the early 1940's.
The Native Americans were baiting and putting arrows through animals long before Roy Weatherby was even a thought. It's ok Slam we understand your point, you're also going to be ok as you realize not everybody agrees with you.
 
The Native Americans were baiting and putting arrows through animals long before Roy Weatherby was even a thought. It's ok Slam we understand your point, you're also going to be ok as you realize not everybody agrees with you.
Nice "slam" waffle, but to think your fan club is on top of these regulations, you may want to consider the wildlife boards stance before your head swells.
Its not me shoving my views down your throat, I just support it.
 
Nice "slam" waffle, but to think your fan club is on top of these regulations, you may want to consider the wildlife boards stance before your head swells.
Its not me shoving my views down your throat, I just support it.
The majority of the wildlife board are guys with your same viewpoint, that's the problem. What's a slam waffle? I'm hungry. Carry on Slam support that ban wagon!.......except what you deem appropriate ?
 
If a hunter feels like they need to place a placard next to their kill with the yardage then that is long range.



Animals aren't gongs.
Oh that hasn’t been a thing since 2007!

You sure? All the insta influencers like to shoot at them like gong!
 
You’re a product of your own environment. When I was stationed in South Texas I was invited to hunt a lease in Johnson City. I never hunted white tail deer let alone anything baited. Early in the morning I was placed in a tree with a corn feeder about 30 yards in front of me. The feeder went off and actually startled me, it was minutes later when the deer started arriving. I killed my limit in less than two hours, 6 deer. I realized it wasn’t fun for me, wasn’t a challenge at all. I have never hunted like that since. I realize that’s all that some know, it’s the way they grew up and it’s legal so other than I won’t ever do it again, I have no issues with it.
 
You’re a product of your own environment. When I was stationed in South Texas I was invited to hunt a lease in Johnson City. I never hunted white tail deer let alone anything baited. Early in the morning I was placed in a tree with a corn feeder about 30 yards in front of me. The feeder went off and actually startled me, it was minutes later when the deer started arriving. I killed my limit in less than two hours, 6 deer. I realized it wasn’t fun for me, wasn’t a challenge at all. I have never hunted like that since. I realize that’s all that some know, it’s the way they grew up and it’s legal so other than I won’t ever do it again, I have no issues with it.
Bingo! Been there; done that.

My first trip to Texas was in the early 1970s. They didn't use feeders for the deer because they came out of the brush to feed in the fields. So hunting was done from blinds that offered viewing a fair amount of country. But we were instructed not to leave the blinds.

I was using my .264 & killed a buck that was about 275-300 yds from my blind. A few mins. later, I shot a javelina in the wash behind me. The rancher later drove out to pick me up & asked if it was me that had shot earlier. When I told him I had & where the buck went down, he was shocked & says, "We usually don't shoot over 100 yards."

So after I killed my two bucks & a doe ('nother tale :rolleyes:), he takes me to the 'turkey' blind. It was about the size of small bedroom with a long window on one side that overlooked three 50 gal drum feeders that were a mere 20 yds. away. I was expected to sit on the couch & use a shotgun. Instead, I had him take me back to our RV to grab my .22 mag rifle. My plan, which I followed, was to just shoot for the bird's eye. That exercise took all of 3 shots to kill two turkeys.

As result of those experiences, I swore I would never hunt over bait again. I've returned to Texas to hunt deer twice after that but to places where I could actually hunt by spot-&-stalk.

Your feeder tale is about like my experience on an early '90s archery deer hunt in MI. I wasn't told beforehand that we would be using bait.

I was assigned to an elevated, closed blind abut 12' up. The feeder was about 15 yds away. When the feeder spun, it was like ringing a dinner bell. I have a photo that shows two does with their twin fawns, a small buck, a racoon, a possum, two turkeys & an all black squirrel eating corn at the same time.

One morning I did a test. When all the critters had gathered, I lit up a cigarette & blew as much smoke as I could out the window toward the feeder. Nothing was phased by it.

A couple of my friends were also hunting on the same small piece of property, mostly by overlooking piles of sugar beets. So leaving my blind to hunt was out of the question.
 
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I don't disagree with your assessments of hunting over bait in Texas. You arrive at a place, are told where to sit, when to shoot, what to do, and shoot your deer with a gun. I agree that's boring to most and doesn't take much effort (most of the work is done before you get there)

Let me ask you this, and I would appreciate honest answers without sarcastic comments. Have any of you that reads this post tried to bait a trophy muley buck in and kill it with a bow? I'm not talking had WLH, or MB tell you to sit in the blind and shoot the buck they tell you to shoot. I'm asking have you hunted a general unit, packed in bait all summer, hung a set, and killed a particular buck that you had targeted? Yes with the help of a trail camera to get that out of the way. I also don't want to hear "I know a guy that did" but have any of you personally done it, tried it? If you have, I would love to hear the amount of time in the stand you spent, amount of time you scouted, screw ups, issues you faced etc.
 
I don't disagree with your assessments of hunting over bait in Texas. You arrive at a place, are told where to sit, when to shoot, what to do, and shoot your deer with a gun. I agree that's boring to most and doesn't take much effort (most of the work is done before you get there)

Let me ask you this, and I would appreciate honest answers without sarcastic comments. Have any of you that reads this post tried to bait a trophy muley buck in and kill it with a bow? I'm not talking had WLH, or MB tell you to sit in the blind and shoot the buck they tell you to shoot. I'm asking have you hunted a general unit, packed in bait all summer, hung a set, and killed a particular buck that you had targeted? Yes with the help of a trail camera to get that out of the way. I also don't want to hear "I know a guy that did" but have any of you personally done it, tried it? If you have, I would love to hear the amount of time in the stand you spent, amount of time you scouted, screw ups, issues you faced etc.
I’ve only hunted with a bow one time, late December Bull tag in Unit 37, NM and it had to be 6 points on one side if I remember correctly. No bait, no cameras just still hunting all day. I put a lot of miles on and actually got within killing distance of a small bull. Needless to say I got skunked, but I’ve never been on a bad hunt. When rifle hunting I tend to take breaks, lunch and such over water holes. Is that baiting? Hmmm…
 
I don't disagree with your assessments of hunting over bait in Texas. You arrive at a place, are told where to sit, when to shoot, what to do, and shoot your deer with a gun. I agree that's boring to most and doesn't take much effort (most of the work is done before you get there)

Let me ask you this, and I would appreciate honest answers without sarcastic comments. Have any of you that reads this post tried to bait a trophy muley buck in and kill it with a bow? I'm not talking had WLH, or MB tell you to sit in the blind and shoot the buck they tell you to shoot. I'm asking have you hunted a general unit, packed in bait all summer, hung a set, and killed a particular buck that you had targeted? Yes with the help of a trail camera to get that out of the way. I also don't want to hear "I know a guy that did" but have any of you personally done it, tried it? If you have, I would love to hear the amount of time in the stand you spent, amount of time you scouted, screw ups, issues you faced etc.
Not legal in California, so no.
 
Long Range for me is:

When I KNEW I could make the shot then I was close enough
When I HOPED I could make the shot then it was to far.
 
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I don’t get why so many folks who buy a $3500-$5000 rifle rig, think they just graduated from sniper school, the rig is capable, but most have a nut loose behind the scope and stock .
lot of errors to contend @ 400+ meters, it aint just looking at a range finder and looking at a chit sheet taped on the stock and dialing a turret
 
I don’t get why so many folks who buy a $3500-$5000 rifle rig, think they just graduated from sniper school, the rig is capable, but most have a nut loose behind the scope and stock .
lot of errors to contend @ 400+ meters, it aint just looking at a range finder and looking at a chit sheet taped on the stock and dialing a turret
You are correct, but some want to blame those two percenters for 90% of the kills ?
 
I don’t get why so many folks who buy a $3500-$5000 rifle rig, think they just graduated from sniper school, the rig is capable, but most have a nut loose behind the scope and stock .
lot of errors to contend @ 400+ meters, it aint just looking at a range finder and looking at a chit sheet taped on the stock and dialing a turret
Yes sir, the wife has a car that the manufacturer claims will do over 160 mph. She nor I have never come close to that speed while driving that car. Just because something is capable of great performance doesn’t mean it needs to be performed, one must know his limitations.
 
I don't disagree with your assessments of hunting over bait in Texas. You arrive at a place, are told where to sit, when to shoot, what to do, and shoot your deer with a gun. I agree that's boring to most and doesn't take much effort (most of the work is done before you get there)

Let me ask you this, and I would appreciate honest answers without sarcastic comments. Have any of you that reads this post tried to bait a trophy muley buck in and kill it with a bow? I'm not talking had WLH, or MB tell you to sit in the blind and shoot the buck they tell you to shoot. I'm asking have you hunted a general unit, packed in bait all summer, hung a set, and killed a particular buck that you had targeted? Yes with the help of a trail camera to get that out of the way. I also don't want to hear "I know a guy that did" but have any of you personally done it, tried it? If you have, I would love to hear the amount of time in the stand you spent, amount of time you scouted, screw ups, issues you faced etc.
My honest, non-sarcastic answer:

I prefer avoiding anything that a 'hunter' does that disrupts the NATURAL life of native game to the hunter's advantage. That goes for both gun & archery.

And no, I've never did the bait & kill bit on my own, given what I typed above. It wouldn't change my opinion one iota.

Way back in 2003 or so, I ventured to South Africa because a friend wanted company after someone else had bailed on him. The price of $4,500 was for 1-on-1 guiding, room/board & included a gemsbok, impala, kudu, warthog, blesbok & springbok. I added blue & black wildebeests, nyala & bushbuck. By the time I was done with my plane fare, trophy prep/shipping, importing fees & taxidermy that little trip to please a buddy set me back about $25K. :rolleyes:

The point: all of the hunting was done within closed fences. Granted, some of the properties we hunted were huge, but it was always a matter of when, not if, we would locate a decent shooter of any species. I added the extra critters because I had already decided I wouldn't ever return to hunt in SA for that very reason.

The first bear I killed was in AZ in the 1960s. I called it in accidentally during a spring turkey hunt on the White Mt. Apache Res. In the 70s, I went on a hound hunt on that same res. We rode mules but never treed a bear.

In the early 1980s, I ventured to Sphene Lake in southern Ontario where I was dropped off to overlook a stinkin' barrel of dead suckers. I had two small 200 lb. bears visit during the week. I passed on both. The ticks were ferocious but the smallmouth fishing was super. I swore I would never hunt bears over bait again -- whether it be suckers or donuts.

Later, I discovered that a guy could actually hunt bears in BC using spot & stalk. Over the next two decades, I killed six bears that way. After the last one in 2002, I told myself that I have killed all the bears I needed.

Now here's a somewhat amusing aside about the MI bow hunt in my other reply. I drove from AZ to the lodge, which was right on the shore of Lake Huron near Rogers City. That meant I drove many miles in MI. All along the way, there were oodles of places selling sugar beets and/or corn. Big signs, such as 'Beets by the PU Load,' 'Get Your Deer Bait Here,' etc. were prominent along the roads. At the time, I got a big chuckle out of it all. That was before I found out I would be hunting over bait. So I guess last laugh on me. :cool:
 
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I have no issues with long range rifles, magnums have been around since early 1900's.
Scopes and range finders have made them capable of what they can do.

Again, "what is long range"?
Is it because a guy like me has a turret scope but I still limit myself on my ability to 500 yards on game?

BUTYes I have issues with Apple piles and "excessive cameras", but it didn't start with me, I just support the obvious issues they have brought to the "industry".

Wiff can keep all his archery gadgets, he obviously trusts his judgment and shooting abilities, therefore I don't call him "guilty by association".


I had a Camaro. It would do 120 and not break a sweat. I didn't need to be able to do 120.

But, I did hit 120, too many times, because, I could.

So ya, your 338 doesn't. But it can, which means, it will.

So, what's long range to me? Anything you cant do without natural ability.

Have a 30x scope? Great. Doesn't change bullet physics. If you can shoot 1000yrds without turrets and computers, and dopers, have at it.

And yes, there are dudes that can shoot that distance. Either from tons of practice, or military.

So what can we do, legitimately.

Bows are easy. Control let off, control weight.

Muzzies, control ignition (#11), control projectile, control powder. Scopes on a flint lock don't mean ****.


Rifles. Control the scope? Turrets and holdover marks?

But it hard with rifles, because that's where the engineering money is.

So is that 3x9? 6x? I don't know. But in reality that's about the only realistic thing to do.
 
A 120 Hossy?

120 is like Sayin 400 Yards!

And I Quote Hossy:

But it hard with rifles, because that's where the engineering money is.

And Once Again You're Gonna Let Money RULE?
 
A 120 Hossy?

120 is like Sayin 400 Yards!

And I Quote Hossy:

But it hard with rifles, because that's where the engineering money is.

And Once Again You're Gonna Let Money RULE?


No. But draw a line. My Abolt is better, and more accurate than my uncle's pre 64. The xbolt, better and more accurate than mine. All 3 are 06'.

So how are you limiting that? That cartridge is 120 years old.

Put a new turret scope on that pre 64, and it's still not the same gun as the xbolt.

My 336 30-30 with tipped bullets, is way better than the same gun shooting round nose. So limit tips?

You'd need a rule book 8" thick to go gun by gun, caliber by caliber to accomplish what you can fairly easily with bows and muzzy s.
 
If it’s totally and completely relative to the individual, it’s a social issue. LR definition is shooting at distances near or past what your personal limitations are to make a clean, quick kill. Which personal limitations vary so the definition is different for everyone. So how does the state/WB define that, regulate/restrict it?
'Social' literally means having to do with more than a singular individual... So I'd say personal choices of individuals are only a 'social issue', if it starts impacting their community... :) Maybe thats what is being discussed here...
 
To the ones for which long range is a goal unto itself, and before exhausting other options…

Long range is that miracle distance where every miss is clean, animals are never wounded, and you don’t have to waste time hiking over to look for hair or blood, since if they didn’t drop, they are just running to the next county, right as rain, and a little smarter.

Long range means never hitting in the guts or breaking a leg. Never having to say you are sorry.

Long range means never having to estimate distance or know what MPBR means, let alone why its important in HUNTING if not at the range.

Long range means all invisible conflicting croswinds, updrafts, downdrafts are meaningless. Just click in and pull.

Long range means you get a free practice shot into the rocks or dirt to confirm your range and adjust like all quality snipers.

Long range means you avoided being seen, heard, or winded by the game, since it was not possible for them to do so, you completely beat their senses, you are a god. And though your head to toe Sitka gear wasn’t really needed, you are a COOL looking God… with money. And an awesome rifle. You rock. You knew that. It’s obvious.
 
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My honest, non-sarcastic answer:

I prefer avoiding anything that a 'hunter' does that disrupts the NATURAL life of native game to the hunter's advantage. That goes for both gun & archery.

And no, I've never did the bait & kill bit on my own, given what I typed above. It wouldn't change my opinion one iota.

Way back in 2003 or so, I ventured to South Africa because a friend wanted company after someone else had bailed on him. The price of $4,500 was for 1-on-1 guiding, room/board & included a gemsbok, impala, kudu, warthog, blesbok & springbok. I added blue & black wildebeests, nyala & bushbuck. By the time I was done with my plane fare, trophy prep/shipping, importing fees & taxidermy that little trip to please a buddy set me back about $25K. :rolleyes:

The point: all of the hunting was done within closed fences. Granted, some of the properties we hunted were huge, but it was always a matter of when, not if, we would locate a decent shooter of any species. I added the extra critters because I had already decided I wouldn't ever return to hunt in SA for that very reason.

The first bear I killed was in AZ in the 1960s. I called it in accidentally during a spring turkey hunt on the White Mt. Apache Res. In the 70s, I went on a hound hunt on that same res. We rode mules but never treed a bear.

In the early 1980s, I ventured to Sphene Lake in southern Ontario where I was dropped off to overlook a stinkin' barrel of dead suckers. I had two small 200 lb. bears visit during the week. I passed on both. The ticks were ferocious but the smallmouth fishing was super. I swore I would never hunt bears over bait again -- whether it be suckers or donuts.

Later, I discovered that a guy could actually hunt bears in BC using spot & stalk. Over the next two decades, I killed six bears that way. After the last one in 2002, I told myself that I have killed all the bears I needed.

Now here's a somewhat amusing aside about the MI bow hunt in my other reply. I drove from AZ to the lodge, which was right on the shore of Lake Huron near Rogers City. That meant I drove many miles in MI. All along the way, there were oodles of places selling sugar beets and/or corn. Big signs, such as 'Beets by the PU Load,' 'Get Your Deer Bait Here,' etc. were prominent along the roads. At the time, I got a big chuckle out of it all. That was before I found out I would be hunting over bait. So I guess last laugh on me. :cool:
So you've only experienced commercialized bait style hunting where you have had a guide or outfitter have everything set up for you? Only whitetail and bear, but never tried to do it yourself on a muley buck, in a general unit with a bow, is what I'm hearing? Have you ever tried to bait a bear on your own, and kill it with a bow? Maybe I should ask have you killed anything with a bow? Haha that would cut to the chase. Enjoyed reading your experiences!
 
So you've only experienced commercialized bait style hunting where you have had a guide or outfitter have everything set up for you? Only whitetail and bear, but never tried to do it yourself on a muley buck, in a general unit with a bow, is what I'm hearing? Have you ever tried to bait a bear on your own, and kill it with a bow? Maybe I should ask have you killed anything with a bow? Haha that would cut to the chase. Enjoyed reading your experiences!
He (we) don't have to try it to know it works,
there's a reason the big 3 and many others do it for business purposes and they learned it from Texas and Eastern whitetail hunting.
 
I really believe there are a lot more serious shooters out there that can get it done at long range.
Many dudes are just jealous, and pretend that everyone with a magnum custom rifle is just shooting animals in the butt and leaving them for the crows.
I believe this is not the case. Most of the "long range" hunters I know, get it done. When you're hunting big canyon country, sometimes long range is the only option. In fact, I know very few hunters that aren't prepared for long range shots. In this part of the country, you go long or go home.
I'm a regular troll on the real gunsmith YouTube channel. That guy is a blowhard who is king of his own imagination.
 
He (we) don't have to try it to know it works,
there's a reason the big 3 and many others do it for business purposes and they learned it from Texas and Eastern whitetail hunting.
So you're basing your opinion on what you see on TV, YouTube, and what guides are doing? So what you're telling us all is you have absolutely no idea what it takes for a DIY guy, on a general unit to, scout, bait, hang a treestand, and kill a trophy mule deer with a bow? So your whole bias comes from something you've never even tried? That's grossly absurd to have such a vendetta out for something you have 0 experience with.

I can say I have killed 2 deer with a gun. I drew a 44 3rd season tag in CO and killed a nice buck at get this Slam 600 yards!!! I killed a buck in MT stupid in the rut with a gun. I experienced "long range" hunting and it wasn't my thing. I understand rifle hunting, I know what goes into it, and I've experienced it. You and many like you are so far removed from the realities of what goes into a diy guy to bait and kill a trophy muley buck, but have such definitive opinions is ridiculous.
 
So you're basing your opinion on what you see on TV, YouTube, and what guides are doing? So what you're telling us all is you have absolutely no idea what it takes for a DIY guy, on a general unit to, scout, bait, hang a treestand, and kill a trophy mule deer with a bow? So your whole bias comes from something you've never even tried? That's grossly absurd to have such a vendetta out for something you have 0 experience with.

I can say I have killed 2 deer with a gun. I drew a 44 3rd season tag in CO and killed a nice buck at get this Slam 600 yards!!! I killed a buck in MT stupid in the rut with a gun. I experienced "long range" hunting and it wasn't my thing. I understand rifle hunting, I know what goes into it, and I've experienced it. You and many like you are so far removed from the realities of what goes into a diy guy to bait and kill a trophy muley buck, but have such definitive opinions is ridiculous.
So you harvested both of those bucks in a completely natural state without any props whatsoever??

Not sure where you got the notion I have never bowhunted from a treestand over bait before, but suit yourself.....I hope it helps you feel better.
 
Hold over is a function of zero point. Zero for 400, and you will rarely be "long range".
Zero at 400. That’s funny. Basing the standard for an accurate rifle being MOA that would be a 4” group. Is 2” up or down really a zero?

This is really what the long range hate stems from. People who don’t understand the premise of accurate shooting

Shot rock chucks today at 380 to 440. Had to dial. Someone please tell me how unethical I am :rolleyes:
 
Zero at 400. That’s funny. Basing the standard for an accurate rifle being MOA that would be a 4” group. Is 2” up or down really a zero?

This is really what the long range hate stems from. People who don’t understand the premise of accurate shooting

Shot rock chucks today at 380 to 440. Had to dial. Someone please tell me how unethical I am :rolleyes:

You needed to do a multi quote for this post to have any relevancy to my post, which it doesn't. This reply takes what I said out of context...
 
So you harvested both of those bucks in a completely natural state without any props whatsoever??

Not sure where you got the notion I have never bowhunted from a treestand over bait before, but suit yourself.....I hope it helps you feel better.
"He (we) don't have to try it to know it works" Slamdunk

Oh I dunno in the last post when you said you haven't may have been part of why I assumed you haven't.

Without any props other than a season in the start of the rut, a pillow to lay on, a bipod, an angle compensating rangefinder, a scope with turrets that I had sighted in out to 600 and on and on. Haha sooooo yes that buck was killed "natural"?‍? I don't care though that guys like to hunt like that. You whining to have something banned you've never done, or experienced is asinine. Now you've turned to putting a bullet through an animal is more pure and natural ?
 
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"He (we) don't have to try it to know it works" Slamdunk

Oh I dunno in the last post when you said you haven't may have been part of why I assumed you haven't.
I have bait trees and bait water in my yard. I’d take water every single day.

The deer here don’t reliably go to stuff like licks or piles of apples. The fawns are a different story.

I know it’s not what you are after, but my point is that it’s not a slam dunk to sit a pile of apples, unless they are conditioned to it.
 
I have bait trees and bait water in my yard. I’d take water every single day.

The deer here don’t reliably go to stuff like licks or piles of apples. The fawns are a different story.

I know it’s not what you are after, but my point is that it’s not a slam dunk to sit a pile of apples, unless they are conditioned to it.
That's actually exactly what my experiences have been. Guys think you can throw a salt block out and a pile of apples and 200" bucks come running. Far far far from reality.
 
So you've only experienced commercialized bait style hunting where you have had a guide or outfitter have everything set up for you? Only whitetail and bear, but never tried to do it yourself on a muley buck, in a general unit with a bow, is what I'm hearing? Have you ever tried to bait a bear on your own, and kill it with a bow? Maybe I should ask have you killed anything with a bow? Haha that would cut to the chase. Enjoyed reading your experiences!
Bait is bait, regardless how it gets where it ends up or who puts it there. The intended result is the same: to kill a critter with a gun or a bow by altering game's natural habits. It doesn't take actually killing something to see that happen.

Does a mule deer buck supposedly have a higher IQ than a whitetail buck or a bear has?

Yes, I have killed game with a bow before you were even a wet spot. ;) I started hunting with a 45# Ben Pearson Javelina in 1964, using wooden arrows with real feather fletching & 2-edged broadheads. Shot two javelina & one mule deer -- all spot & stalk. I then laid off archery hunting until the early 1990s & quit again in about 1997. Only hunted javelina & elk in AZ, whitetail in MI & elk in Alberta. Had no interest in chasing anything else with a bow.

In the '90s I also gave a crossbow a brief test drive for use during a HAM javelina season. No bait involved for that either.

bowhunting.jpg
 
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That's actually exactly what my experiences have been. Guys think you can throw a salt block out and a pile of apples and 200" bucks come running. Far far far from reality.
Guys are killing all sorts of critters over salt licks in AZ. And before that they were using corn, as well. Why does a buck have to be 200" before it counts?
 
I have bait trees and bait water in my yard. I’d take water every single day.

The deer here don’t reliably go to stuff like licks or piles of apples. The fawns are a different story.

I know it’s not what you are after, but my point is that it’s not a slam dunk to sit a pile of apples, unless they are conditioned to it.
:LOL: You are conditioning fawns to associate apples with an easy food source, they will continue this as they mature.
 
:LOL: You are conditioning fawns to associate apples with an easy food source, they will continue this as they mature.
Actually vice versa. It’s pretty hard to condition them to stay out of the garden.

I’ve watched it for enough years to say for certain their behavior changes as they age.
 
Back to the original question; Long Range, in my opinion, is anything beyond maximum point-blank range of the weapon that requires sight adjustment for elevation or windage to hit the target. For most modern sporting cartridges this is about 300 yards. In my younger years, during the 90's I was big into long-range shooting using systems starting with the Redfield AccuTrac, then the Shepherd system, then a custom Premier Reticle before finally converting over to dial systems. I had a LOT of fun and spent hours practicing, tuning handloads, shooting wind, etc. I made some really long kills back then and was very proud as they were made possible because of a lot of effort and preparation on my part. About a decade ago, I began losing interest in long range hunting as it became more and more mainstream. I still have my long range rigs and love to shoot targets with them but they don't go along in the fall when I'm hunting.

It is my opinion that hunting is being affected by all-around fanaticism and you can't nail it down to one specific method or practice. People are simply willing to do much more on a much wider scale to be successful than in the past and the definition of success is evolving into a game of numbers and inches. In my opinion, all the rage is fostered and facilitated by the internet, sites like this, as well as trophy clubs like B&C, P&Y, SCI, etc. The quest to have success and achieve a certain score along with notoriety is driving hunters to push the envelope in attempts to gain advantage.

Gone are the days when hunting was a cold opening morning, dressed in denim and flannel, bumping along in a pickup with your friends and family, hoping the favorite deer-spot is holding a few bucks this year. I miss those days. -------SS
 
It is my opinion that hunting is being affected by all-around fanaticism and you can't nail it down to one specific method or practice. People are simply willing to do much more on a much wider scale to be successful than in the past and the definition of success is evolving into a game of numbers and inches. In my opinion, all the rage is fostered and facilitated by the internet, sites like this, as well as trophy clubs like B&C, P&Y, SCI, etc. The quest to have success and achieve a certain score along with notoriety is driving hunters to push the envelope in attempts to gain advantage.

Gone are the days when hunting was a cold opening morning, dressed in denim and flannel, bumping along in a pickup with your friends and family, hoping the favorite deer-spot is holding a few bucks this year. I miss those days. -------SS

bingo.gif

 
Not a direct answer to BigW's question, but I was on a guided hunt in Idaho back in the 80's. When I got there, the guides said we could either sit on the pile of apples or we could still hunt. I immediately said I'd still hunt on my own, just drop me off and pick me up at dark, so he did.

I got waaay down the mountain and it started to snow, and I got turned around and got lost. I finally made it back to the drop off point at about 11:00pm. after exchanging rifle shots with the guide. He said something about f#####g Californians. I killed a 3X4 the next day and wasn't allowed to leave camp after that. :ROFLMAO:
 
Bait is bait, regardless how it gets where it ends up or who puts it there. The intended result is the same: to kill a critter with a gun or a bow by altering game's natural habits. It doesn't take actually killing something to see that happen.

Does a mule deer buck supposedly have a higher IQ than a whitetail buck or a bear has?

Yes, I have killed game with a bow before you were even a wet spot. ;) I started hunting with a 45# Ben Pearson Javelina in 1964, using wooden arrows with real feather fletching & 2-edged broadheads. Shot two javelina & one mule deer -- all spot & stalk. I then laid off archery hunting until the early 1990s & quit again in about 1997. Only hunted javelina & elk in AZ, whitetail in MI & elk in Alberta. Had no interest in chasing anything else with a bow.

In the '90s I also gave a crossbow a brief test drive for use during a HAM javelina season. No bait involved for that either.

View attachment 71634
So you're short answer is no you've never experienced trying to bait a mule deer in on your own on a general unit and kill it with your bow. Got it
 
So you're short answer is no you've never experienced trying to bait a mule deer in on your own on a general unit and kill it with your bow. Got it
You're going in circles now, but congrats on your excellent comprehension. Did you have to read it a bunch of times to figure that out ? :ROFLMAO:

My personal experience does nothing to change the fact that baiting alters the natural habits of game to the detriment of it. Again -- no matter who does it, where it's done or what animal is targeted.

I've never hit my nuts with a hammer because I KNOW it will hurt like hell. I don't need to do it to prove it. Likewise with baiting. I've known & been around individuals who have baited for 6 decades. I think I might have gained a bit insight to the practice.
 
You're going in circles now, but congrats on your excellent comprehension. Did you have to read it a bunch of times to figure that out ? :ROFLMAO:

My personal experience does nothing to change the fact that baiting alters the natural habits of game to the detriment of it. Again -- no matter who does it, where it's done or what animal is targeted.

I've never hit my nuts with a hammer because I KNOW it will hurt like hell. I don't need to do it to prove it. Likewise with baiting. I've known & been around individuals who have baited for 6 decades. I think I might have gained a bit insight to the practice.
The question I posed was this:

"Have any of you that reads this post tried to bait a trophy muley buck in and kill it with a bow? I'm not talking had WLH, or MB tell you to sit in the blind and shoot the buck they tell you to shoot. I'm asking have you hunted a general unit, packed in bait all summer, hung a set, and killed a particular buck that you had targeted?"

You've now put me to sleep several times reading your long winded answers. A simple "no" from you would have answered the question I asked. Please check your reading comprehension before boring us with your unrelated drivle about your guided hunts.
 
The question I posed was this:

"Have any of you that reads this post tried to bait a trophy muley buck in and kill it with a bow? I'm not talking had WLH, or MB tell you to sit in the blind and shoot the buck they tell you to shoot. I'm asking have you hunted a general unit, packed in bait all summer, hung a set, and killed a particular buck that you had targeted?"

You've now put me to sleep several times reading your long winded answers. A simple "no" from you would have answered the question I asked. Please check your reading comprehension before boring us with your unrelated drivle about your guided hunts.
Hello?? Hello??

It appears I gave you too much credit for reading comprehension.

Way back in #51...

"And no, I've never did the bait & kill bit on my own, given what I typed above. It wouldn't change my opinion one iota."

What part of "no' confused you?

Someone must have nailed one of your feet to the floor. As I said in my last reply, you're now going in a circle.
 
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Ask Slam that question he is bent he thinks all the big bucks are being killed before his hunt starts.
Hey Wiff, for whatever it's worth, this is a buck i COULD have killed opening morning in 2016 when I had my tag, it was literally less than 100 yards off the main road i was on.
It was a tough decision because I knew it was a great buck but I was on a 16 year hunt with my family and I wasn't going to end it after all the prep work I had put in.
My hunt wasn't about a particular kill, it was about the hunt with my family.

I took this picture a few hours later as the person who did kill it got it loaded.
Yes they thanked me for passing and I was biting my nails questioning my sanity.
The next day I also passed on another buck that was bigger than the one I killed on day 7, but I am still happy because "i could have".
Screenshot_20220320-123515_Gallery.jpg
 
Hey Wiff, for whatever it's worth, this is a buck i COULD have killed opening morning in 2016 when I had my tag, it was literally less than 100 yards off the main road i was on.
It was a tough decision because I knew it was a great buck but I was on a 16 year hunt with my family and I wasn't going to end it after all the prep work I had put in.
My hunt wasn't about a particular kill, it was about the hunt with my family.

I took this picture a few hours later as the person who did kill it got it loaded.
Yes they thanked me for passing and I was biting my nails questioning my sanity.
The next day I also passed on another buck that was bigger than the one I killed on day 7, but I am still happy because "i could have".
View attachment 71669
Now I know beyond a shadow of a doubt you need your brain examined......? in all seriousness glad you had fun hunting the way you wanted to hunt!
 
Hello?? Hello??

It appears I gave you too much credit for reading comprehension.

Way back in #51...

"And no, I've never did the bait & kill bit on my own, given what I typed above. It wouldn't change my opinion one iota."

What part of "no' confused you?

Someone must have nailed one of your feet to the floor. As I said in my last reply, you're now going in a circle.
The "N" in no confused me, then somewhere in chapter 4 of your response I forgot you had answered. My bad.
 
Hey Wiff, for whatever it's worth, this is a buck i COULD have killed opening morning in 2016 when I had my tag, it was literally less than 100 yards off the main road i was on.
It was a tough decision because I knew it was a great buck but I was on a 16 year hunt with my family and I wasn't going to end it after all the prep work I had put in.
My hunt wasn't about a particular kill, it was about the hunt with my family.

I took this picture a few hours later as the person who did kill it got it loaded.
Yes they thanked me for passing and I was biting my nails questioning my sanity.
The next day I also passed on another buck that was bigger than the one I killed on day 7, but I am still happy because "i could have".
View attachment 71669
Slam, I understand you a lot more by this post. I can relate to everything you said to the fullest. We are way more similar than different I think.
 
I deserved that one ?
It's not about inches. You kill that buck right off the bat opening morning your hunt is over. I think you made the right choice.......maybe made the right choice haha, that's a neat buck. The one you killed is a neat buck too, and you got the experience of the hunt on your terms. Did you get in any fisfights with guides?
 
Hey Wiff, for whatever it's worth, this is a buck i COULD have killed opening morning in 2016 when I had my tag, it was literally less than 100 yards off the main road i was on.
It was a tough decision because I knew it was a great buck but I was on a 16 year hunt with my family and I wasn't going to end it after all the prep work I had put in.
My hunt wasn't about a particular kill, it was about the hunt with my family.

I took this picture a few hours later as the person who did kill it got it loaded.
Yes they thanked me for passing and I was biting my nails questioning my sanity.
The next day I also passed on another buck that was bigger than the one I killed on day 7, but I am still happy because "i could have".
View attachment 71669
I would have killed it!
 
It's not about inches. You kill that buck right off the bat opening morning your hunt is over. I think you made the right choice.......maybe made the right choice haha, that's a neat buck. The one you killed is a neat buck too, and you got the experience of the hunt on your terms. Did you get in any fisfights with guides?
Lol....no fist fights, but they did have spotters on every vantage point i was aware of and it was definitely an annoyance.

I did get to meet Mr Kolpin (Kolpin rifle cases) he was with a group of at least 6 WLH guides.
I guess that was kind of "special" ?
 
Lol....no fist fights, but they did have spotters on every vantage point i was aware of and it was definitely an annoyance.

I did get to meet Mr Kolpin (Kolpin rifle cases) he was with a group of at least 6 WLH guides.
I guess that was kind of "special" ?
I'm sure you were star struck! ?
 
Mr KOLPIN Told Me Right To My Face He'd Never Heard Of a KOLPIN Item Breaking after I Told Him the Stuff Wasn't Holding Up!

We've Busted a Bunch of it!

Dumped Rifles in the Rocks!

Ya!

I'm Still Using Some of KOLPINS Stuff because There isn't much of a Choice!

I Also Called KOLPINS Tech Support a Few Times!

They've Trained Them Well!

Every Call I Got the Reply of:

We've Never Heard of Any Of Our ATV Gun Boots/Brackets Breaking!

So?

Me & My Son are The Only Ones in The World That's Bought a Bunch of it And It Has FAILED I Guess?

SWEAR TO GAWD!

If Somebody wanted to Start a Business & Make Money they Could Start Building QUALITY Gun Mounts/Brackets/Scabbards for ATV'S & SIDE X SIDES And Make a Good Living Doing it!

Who The HELL Wants to Pack a 1,000.00-10,000.00 Gun in a Inexpensive Piece Of Plastic that is gonna Fail?

And Not Only YES,But HELL YES I'd Pay Decent Money For a Decent Product!



!
 
Mr KOLPIN Told Me Right To My Face He'd Never Heard Of a KOLPIN Item Breaking after I Told Him the Stuff Wasn't Holding Up!

We've Busted a Bunch of it!

Dumped Rifles in the Rocks!

Ya!

I'm Still Using Some of KOLPINS Stuff because There isn't much of a Choice!

I Also Called KOLPINS Tech Support a Few Times!

They've Trained Them Well!

Every Call I Got the Reply of:

We've Never Heard of Any Of Our ATV Gun Boots/Brackets Breaking!

So?

Me & My Son are The Only Ones in The World That's Bought a Bunch of it And It Has FAILED I Guess?

SWEAR TO GAWD!

If Somebody wanted to Start a Business & Make Money they Could Start Building QUALITY Gun Mounts/Brackets/Scabbards for ATV'S & SIDE X SIDES And Make a Good Living Doing it!

Who The HELL Wants to Pack a 1,000.00-10,000.00 Gun in a Inexpensive Piece Of Plastic that is gonna Fail?

And Not Only YES,But HELL YES I'd Pay Decent Money For a Decent Product!



!
Yep, they were junk.
Polaris owns them now, so maybe they just catch on fire instead break??‍♂️
 
Mr KOLPIN Told Me Right To My Face He'd Never Heard Of a KOLPIN Item Breaking after I Told Him the Stuff Wasn't Holding Up!

We've Busted a Bunch of it!

Dumped Rifles in the Rocks!

Ya!

I'm Still Using Some of KOLPINS Stuff because There isn't much of a Choice!

I Also Called KOLPINS Tech Support a Few Times!

They've Trained Them Well!

Every Call I Got the Reply of:

We've Never Heard of Any Of Our ATV Gun Boots/Brackets Breaking!

So?

Me & My Son are The Only Ones in The World That's Bought a Bunch of it And It Has FAILED I Guess?

SWEAR TO GAWD!

If Somebody wanted to Start a Business & Make Money they Could Start Building QUALITY Gun Mounts/Brackets/Scabbards for ATV'S & SIDE X SIDES And Make a Good Living Doing it!

Who The HELL Wants to Pack a 1,000.00-10,000.00 Gun in a Inexpensive Piece Of Plastic that is gonna Fail?

And Not Only YES,But HELL YES I'd Pay Decent Money For a Decent Product!



!
Holy smokes, this whole thread is like watching the special oylimpic high hurtles relay
amusing but painful ???‍??
 
Longrange.....depends on what weapon...my traditional muzzleloader 200 yds..my 12 in. 5/38 gun mount... 12 miles..
 

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