Wyo outfitter, landowner, DIY battle!

jims

Long Time Member
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If you are a DIY nonres hunter and enjoy hunting Wyo OYO it’s time to step up and comment to the Task Force your thoughts. Currently, nonres landowner tags are taking off the top of the pile of available nonres tags available in limited Wyo units. This often leads to 0 tags available to nonres in the public draw. I’ve heard rumors that the Wyo outfitters are trying to take additional tags off the top of the pile. If this happens, nonres hunters that sign paperwork prior to the draw to hunt with outfitters would be eligible to take additional tags away from each and every nonres applicant in the public draw.

There often are only 0 to 2 limited nonres tags available in most high demand, limited units. Landowners already take a chunk off the top. There would be few to 0 tags left in the public draw. Outfitters and landowners could potentially take every limited tag if this happens.

Nonres have been applying and paying high pref pt fees in hopes of drawing these high demand elk, deer, and antelope tags for years and years. I truly believe it would be a mistake to strip even more tags from public hunters that have supported the WG&F with pref pt fees for so many years. I also believe it is important to keep the draw simple and allow those that apply for tags decide if they want to hire outfitters or hunt on their own.

Wyo res may want to pay attention to what transpires in the next Task Force meeting. Wyo res obviously are issued more tags and there is always the chance that outfitters/landowners try to strip them of tags. You never know, outfitters may come up with the same idea of offering Wyo resident outfitters tags that are similar to the current resident landowner tag system where tags are taken off the top of the pile! Nonres are currently issued so few tags….where on earth are additional outfitter tags going to come from? I bet I know!

Anyway, if you are a DIY hunter waiting patiently in line with the current nonres elk, deer, and antelope pref pt system I would advise submitting comments to the Task Force. Task Force comments are welcome until April 21. There are only a few more days left! Here’s a link to the website to submit comments:


Make certain to mention that you have devoted years to applying and paying for Wyoming preference points in hopes of drawing high demand limited elk, deer, and antelope tags as a nonres. Also mention that you believe it is important that the WG&F allows all hunters to apply for tags in the public draw and each hunter can make up their own mind if they desire to hire an outfitter or hunt on their own.
 
Jims, I think you should go and protest in person. Make some cool signs and maybe live stream here so we can see how it’s going. Don’t forget to mention cheatgrass on your signs!!
So you are discouraging a guy for taking an active role in conservation and trying to not allow premium random tags to be allocated to hard working hunters? It's just ok for tags to follow the money like in every other aspect of life? You sound like a real first class ******* in my opinion :)
 
So you are discouraging a guy for taking an active role in conservation and trying to not allow premium random tags to be allocated to hard working hunters? It's just ok for tags to follow the money like in every other aspect of life? You sound like a real first class ******* in my opinion :)
You should read some of his work in the Wyoming forum. If you agree with him, you might be his only friend.
What does an asterisk sound like?
 
So you are discouraging a guy for taking an active role in conservation and trying to not allow premium random tags to be allocated to hard working hunters? It's just ok for tags to follow the money like in every other aspect of life? You sound like a real first class ******* in my opinion :)

Yet this guy, jims, says nothing about his own state of Colorado when it comes to NR. He's the biggest hypocrite on the web. Pay attention...

Same guy who promises a handicap hunter he will get him a big buck if he shares points with him. You sound like a real first class ***** in my opinion. Birds of a feather?
 
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I've heard that gluing yourself to the floors at NBA games is a new way to protest. Maybe try that one, seems to get good press. Buzz has already told us that landowner tags and outfitter tags are dead in the water, so you have nothing to worry about Jims.

Rich
 
So I’m stepping up and trying to help average joe diy/oyo hunters. Don’t think that’s a bad deal! Similar to the guys trying to get corner crossing approved!!!! By the way, the corner crossing guys are nonres and are treated like heros!!!

Sounds like those that are ridiculing me are all in favor of taking tags out of the public draw and handing these tags directly over to outfitters in Wyo, Colo, and throughout the West? So what Wyo res are saying is that's it's fine if outfitters take a chunk of tags off both the top of the res and nonres pool of tags? If it's fine to take these tags from nonres....why not Wyo res?

Take a look, outfitters know exactly what percentage of residents hunt guided for elk, deer, and antelope in Wyoming. What happens when outfitters ask for that % of tags to be taken off the top of the resident’s pool?

You better be commenting and watching your backs Wyo res! It happened in Colo and it could easily happen in. Wyo! Open your eyes Wyo res the outfitters and landowners may be headed your direction!

I think almost everyone would admit that it is a mistake to take tags out of the public draw in any shape or form and hand them over to outfitters! Let hunters draw tags in the public drawing and decide if they want to go guided or oyo!
 
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So I’m stepping up and trying to help average joe diy/oyo hunters. Don’t think that’s a bad deal! Similar to the guys trying to get corner crossing approved!!!! By the way, the corner crossing guys are nonres!!!

Sounds like those that are ridiculing me are all in favor of handing tags directly over to outfitters? What happens if resident tags are taken off the top of the pile and handed to outfitters? Take a look, outfitters are aware that a percentage of residents hunt guided for elk, deer, and antelope. What happens when outfitters ask for that % of tags to be taken off the top of the resident’s pool?

You better be commenting and watching your backs Wyo res! It happened in Colo and it could easily happen in. Wyo!
Just like you helped the handicapped gentleman?
 
How many of you DIY/OYO hunters have been critics of the New Mexico draw, landowner, and outfitter tag system? I don’t think any of you want that to happen in Wyoming?

My buddy isn’t handicapped. You guys also don’t know anything about the details. My buddy and I actually shared a fantastic summer scouting and both had exciting, successful hunts. FYI, the same gentleman harvested a totally awesome high scoring B&C pronghorn buck with me a few years earlier! Can’t beat that!!! We are definitely friends for life!

If you are a DIY/OYO nonres or res hunter in Wyo, be sure to get your comments submitted by by April 21! I would highly recommend that you suggest that outfitters and landowners shouldn’t be offered any tags prior to or in a separate portion of a drawing. All tags should be available in a drawing that is open to all public hunters. Also request that hunters that are successful drawing tags be free to determine whether they want to DIY hunt or hire an outfitter.
 
My buddy isn’t handicapped. You guys also don’t know anything about the details. My buddy and I actually shared a fantastic summer scouting and both had exciting, successful hunts. FYI, the same gentleman harvested a totally awesome high scoring B&C pronghorn buck with me a few years earlier! Can’t beat that!!! We are definitely friends for life!

Back to this post….If you are a DIY/OYO nonres or res hunter in Wyo, be sure to get your comments submitted by by April 21! I would highly recommend that you suggest that outfitters and landowners shouldn’t be offered any tags prior to or in a separate portion of a drawing. All tags should be available in a drawing that is open to all public hunters. Also request that hunters that are successful drawing tags be free to determine whether they want to DIY hunt or hire an outfitter.

How many of you DIY/OYO hunters have been critics of the New Mexico draw, landowner, and outfitter tag system? I don’t think any of you want that to happen in Wyoming?
I love the NM draw. What else do you want?
 
JB, Good for you.....you are in the minority that truly likes the NM draw system! You must have big $ to spend every year? Obviously the guys with big $ love NM system because they can purchase tags and hunt every year if they don't draw a tag in the outfitter tag pool that has better draw odds than pathetic public pool draw. For nonres DIY/OYO hunters on a budget that are stuck applying for the 0 to 1 tags in most units in the public tag pool the NM system is a joke!
 
JB, Good for you.....you are in the minority that truly likes the NM draw system! You must have big $ to spend every year? Obviously the guys with big $ love NM system because they can purchase tags and hunt every year if they don't draw a tag in the outfitter tag pool that has better draw odds than pathetic public pool draw. For nonres DIY/OYO hunters on a budget that are stuck applying for the 0 to 1 tags in most units in the public tag pool the NM system is a joke!
My finances have nothing to do with the draw or your theory. I put in for the regular draw of Elk, Ant, and Deer every year as a NR. I draw at least 1 tag every year for 5-6 years in a row, in the regular pool. To me, there is nothing wrong with that. They are providing the chance at an opportunity to hunt.
You seem to worry more about other states then your own. You don't have many allies on the Wyoming board for sure.

Maybe you should try to make more money so you can make your dreams come true.
 
I wonder if they predicted the future of getting a bunch of nonresident comments and made a deal to really care about it ?
 
Surprised to see everyone jumping all over this guy. From what Ive learned on monster muleys is the non resident hunter is the only thing that keeps a state running, is deserving of preferential treatment over a resident and is owed any and all tags they may want. Or is that just non residents of Idaho? You guys need to get some consistency here
 
How many of you DIY/OYO hunters have been critics of the New Mexico draw, landowner, and outfitter tag system? I don’t think any of you want that to happen in Wyoming?

My buddy isn’t handicapped. You guys also don’t know anything about the details. My buddy and I actually shared a fantastic summer scouting and both had exciting, successful hunts. FYI, the same gentleman harvested a totally awesome high scoring B&C pronghorn buck with me a few years earlier! Can’t beat that!!! We are definitely friends for life!

If you are a DIY/OYO nonres or res hunter in Wyo, be sure to get your comments submitted by by April 21! I would highly recommend that you suggest that outfitters and landowners shouldn’t be offered any tags prior to or in a separate portion of a drawing. All tags should be available in a drawing that is open to all public hunters. Also request that hunters that are successful drawing tags be free to determine whether they want to DIY hunt or hire an outfitter.
Nothing wrong with the NM draw…
 
JB, I could easily die tomorrow with a smile on my face. I've had so many incredible experiences over the years. Many of these experiences were hunting in Wyo and other states on my own. certainly feel sad for young and new hunters just starting out!

With that said, my biggest concern is not my own....it is young and new hunters starting out and the old legacy of families being able to hunt together. As I've broadcasted many times on this and other websites, our hunting heritage is in a stage of negative change across the Western US. Draw odds continue to decrease for both residents and nonres and as we all know the pref pts required to draw high demand tags continues to climb. Obviously, offering tags in an outfitter pool cuts that many tags that are available for everyone in the public draw. Draw odds and point creep are already horrible with 0 change!

I really believe it is a mistake if Wyo continues the trend in other states of offering those that can afford to purchase expensive tags or outfitted hunts a proportion of tags that otherwise would be available to everyone with an equal opportunity for high demand tags in the public draw.

Any way you slice it, having tags taken off the top of the pool of tags issued and offering them to clients that have signed up to go on guided hunts takes that many tags away from youth hunters, new hunters just starting out applying, and those that enjoy hunting on-their-own.

Nonres have devoted years and years to applying for tags and buying pref pts for elk, deer, and antelope in Wyoming. Nonres landowners already take tags off the top of the nonres limited tag pool prior to the draw. Now outfitters want another chunk of these tags prior to the draw. Holy smokes, will there be any tags available to public hunters? If you take a close look at draw odds stats, landowners already take many nonres tags and nonres have 0 tags in many units!

Anyway, if you enjoy DIY hunting in Wyo....I would highly recommend offering your comments by the April 21 deadline. Here is the link:
https://sites.google.com/wyo.gov/wyomingwildlifetaskforce/home/public-input
 
SS, as usual you have nothing constructive to say.

SS, Wyo outfitters are aware that Wyo residents also hire outfitters. So you are entirely in favor of outfitters taking tags away from the Wyo resident public pool prior to the draw and offering those tags to those resident applicants that sign an outfitter agreement prior to the limited draw? How about it Wyo res? Do you want outfitter tags for residents that are taken off the top before the res elk/deer/antelope draw? This could easily become reality! God knows nonres have few to 0 tags to offer outfitters!
 
SS, as usual you have nothing constructive to say.

SS, Wyo outfitters are aware that Wyo residents also hire outfitters. So you are entirely in favor of outfitters taking tags away from the Wyo resident public pool prior to the draw and offering those tags to those resident applicants that sign an outfitter agreement prior to the limited draw? How about it Wyo res? Do you want outfitter tags for residents that are taken off the top before the res elk/deer/antelope draw? This could easily become reality! God knows nonres have few to 0 tags to offer outfitters!
There’s reality and then there is Jims reality. They are not the same
 
You guys may not agree with Jims opinions, but I have know him for a long time and he is a stand up guy who almost everyone (some present company excluded) would welcome at their fire.

As a NR of Colorado I can see that residents side of things and realize they are not getting their fair share of tags. Even though it will cost me hunting opportunities, I think it’s time to give a bigger percentage to Residents. It’s refreshing to see some Colorado residents, like Jims, that can at least see our side of it too.


You can disagree with someone’s opinions without resorting to Jr High tactics. Oh, that’s right, this is the internet. What was I thinking!
 
Remember @jims the outfitters were your port in a storm and how did that work out? I feel bad for those who sent money to WYOGA to stop 90/10 and now with outfitter draws very likely on the NR side, there will be even fewer opportunities left for DEA than straight 90/10.

While residents are fighting region tags for deer, those outfitter drawing tags will be sneaking in under the radar. Sorry guys!:(
 
So you guys are ok with outfitters taking even more off already very limited NR quotas? More outfitter welfare? You guys must never want to hunt in Wyoming DIY if you support that.
 
For you guys that think outfitters getting more of the tags is a good thing, and that taking them away from already shrinking DIY NR hunter tags is fine, please put out your argument why

Otherwise, this sounds an awful lot like “I don’t like the messenger, so I am going to oppose his idea”.
 
Because that will be less non res on public land because allot of outfitted hunts take place on land that is not accessible to average residents. But I also don't feel like the outfitters need anymore welfare and I do have nr friends that come hunt with me and I don't want to see nr diy odds shrink that bad either so I'm neutral
 
For you guys that think outfitters getting more of the tags is a good thing, and that taking them away from already shrinking DIY NR hunter tags is fine, please put out your argument why

Otherwise, this sounds an awful lot like “I don’t like the messenger, so I am going to oppose his idea”.
i'm for, and always will be for, a state managing hunting for the benefit of its residents first and foremost. non residents can either play by what rules are given to them or play somewhere else if they don't like it

if Wyoming residents want this then i say fantastic.
 
i'm for, and always will be for, a state managing hunting for the benefit of its residents first and foremost. non residents can either play by what rules are given to them or play somewhere else if they don't like it

if Wyoming residents want this then i say fantastic.
Agreed.
 
[QUOTE="txhunter58, post: 2060473, member: 2270"So you guys are ok with outfitters taking even more off already very limited NR quotas? More outfitter welfare? You guys must never want to hunt in Wyoming DIY if you support that.
[/QUOTE]

I have stated many times; I'm against outfitter sponsored tags, wilderness law, transferable landowner tags, and outfitters on public land.

Jims is a hypocrite! Ask yourself why is jims so vocal about Wyoming. Not too long ago jims was in full support of WYOGA/Wyoming Outfitters. Why the change of heart now?

Jims knows how to take advantage of Wyomings system and the people who apply here. He's only upset because of how it will effect him, not the poor youth or all the other BS he spews. If you want to believe he cares about the youth and the NR hunter then feel free, I never will. Why is jims so silent about the youth and NR in his home state of Colorado? I will tell you why... .hypocrite.
 
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Jims, you're "issue" is with the outfitters getting the tags from the "highest demand, limited units". You're example is that the 1 or 2 tags won't be available to NR hunters. I already accept the fact that I'll never draw those tags in the first place. It won't change that I apply in Wyoming. Oregon, for example, has this type of program, and the hardest to draw tags are frequently issued to the guides. I still apply in that state, and I don't apply for those. I'm so far behind "max" points in my draw states, that it doesn't bother me. I didn't draw in Nevada or New Mexico either, so I guess I'll go somewhere else.
 
[QUOTE="txhunter58, post: 2060473, member: 2270"So you guys are ok with outfitters taking even more off already very limited NR quotas? More outfitter welfare? You guys must never want to hunt in Wyoming DIY if you support that.

I have stated many times; I'm against outfitter sponsored tags, wilderness law, transferable landowner tags, and outfitters on public land.

Jims is a hypocrite! Ask yourself why is jims so vocal about Wyoming. Not too long ago jims was in full support of WYOGA/Wyoming Outfitters. Why the change of heart now?

Jims knows how to take advantage of Wyomings system and the people who apply here. He's only upset because of how it will effect him, not the poor youth or all the other BS he spews. If you want to believe he cares about the youth and the NR hunter then feel free, I never will. Why is jims so silent about the youth and NR in his home state of Colorado? I will tell you why... .hypocrite.
[/QUOTE]

So you do agree with this current thread’s premise but you don’t like the guy. I understand. It s a shame we can’t disagree with someone and not trash him at every opportunity.

You other two guys: If we took a poll, I strongly suspect you would be in the minority about this issue. Anyone who wants to do a “western hunt” should be allowed to enjoy that amazing adventure at some point. Limit NRs yes, but don’t just leave us crumbs
 
Nonres have been applying for pref pts in Wyo for years and years. They have put in the time applying and also supporting the WG&F with ever increasing pref pt fees. What's going on with outfitters asking for their own chunk of tags has almost nothing to do with Wyo residents. It's handing tags over to guided hunters that have signed contracts with outfitters prior to the draw. Again, landowners already take a chunk of limited tags off the top prior to the draws, now outfitters want an additional chunk of tags. How many tags will be left for DIY/OYO hunters?

On top of landowner, outfitter tags taken off the top prior to the draw it's also possible that 90/10 could also be tossed in the mix and would immediately cut nonres DIY tags in 1/2! Landowner tags + outfitter tags + 90/10 means almost no tags available to DIY/OYO hunters!

It doesn't take long to look down the nonres limited unit tag quotas to see there will be almost 0 elk, deer, and antelope tags left for nonres that prefer to hunt DIY/OYO.

You may not like me and what condescending Wyo res write about me but I do my best to stand up for DIY/OYO hunters across the country.

If you are a hunter that lives anywhere across the country and some day want to public land in Wyo, I would highly recommend sending in your comments to the Task Force comments section by tomorrow (April 21) deadline! Good luck drawing tags and hunting this year in Wyo!

Make sure to state that you are against tags issued to outfitters in any form (before, after, or purchased tags). I would also recommend that you are also against 90/10 for deer, elk, and antelope. It would be great if all tags are available to every nonresident in the draw and after a tag is drawn, each hunter can decide to either go guided or DIY/OYO.

 
I have stated many times; I'm against outfitter sponsored tags, wilderness law, transferable landowner tags, and outfitters on public land.

Jims is a hypocrite! Ask yourself why is jims so vocal about Wyoming. Not too long ago jims was in full support of WYOGA/Wyoming Outfitters. Why the change of heart now?

Jims knows how to take advantage of Wyomings system and the people who apply here. He's only upset because of how it will effect him, not the poor youth or all the other BS he spews. If you want to believe he cares about the youth and the NR hunter then feel free, I never will. Why is jims so silent about the youth and NR in his home state of Colorado? I will tell you why... .hypocrite.

So you do agree with this current thread’s premise but you don’t like the guy. I understand. It s a shame we can’t disagree with someone and not trash him at every opportunity.

You other two guys: If we took a poll, I strongly suspect you would be in the minority about this issue. Anyone who wants to do a “western hunt” should be allowed to enjoy that amazing adventure at some point. Limit NRs yes, but don’t just leave us crumbs
[/QUOTE]
I’m also from Texas and apply in western states. I am happy for any opportunity I am given as a NR. I have zero desire to interfere in another state’s issues. Whatever they decide to give to NR is their choice.
 
I have stated many times; I'm against outfitter sponsored tags, wilderness law, transferable landowner tags, and outfitters on public land.

Jims is a hypocrite! Ask yourself why is jims so vocal about Wyoming. Not too long ago jims was in full support of WYOGA/Wyoming Outfitters. Why the change of heart now?

Jims knows how to take advantage of Wyomings system and the people who apply here. He's only upset because of how it will effect him, not the poor youth or all the other BS he spews. If you want to believe he cares about the youth and the NR hunter then feel free, I never will. Why is jims so silent about the youth and NR in his home state of Colorado?

I can't say if I like or dislike jims, I've never met the guy. What I can say he's disingenuous. It's apparent jims is worried about his future hunts in Wyoming, however, he claims it's about the youth and all NR. Not long ago jims was here telling people WYOGA/ Wyoming Outfitters were the saviors of NR hunters so please support them. How's that working out? Then the scare tactics. How many times has he told people they better watch their backs. He flip flops more than Beto O'Rourke. Sometimes friendship makes people blind.
 
I smoke my cheatgrass with herbicide that releases native browse species that benefits mule deer, elk, antelope and other wildlife! You may want to try it! It's amazing!
 
Ok! Now we are getting somewhere.
Did you smoke this cheatgrass/roundup mixture when you were on the side of the outfitters in Wyoming or more recently when you switched teams and went for the NR against the outfitters?
 
I have stated many times; I'm against outfitter sponsored tags, wilderness law, transferable landowner tags, and outfitters on public land.

Jims is a hypocrite! Ask yourself why is jims so vocal about Wyoming. Not too long ago jims was in full support of WYOGA/Wyoming Outfitters. Why the change of heart now?

Jims knows how to take advantage of Wyomings system and the people who apply here. He's only upset because of how it will effect him, not the poor youth or all the other BS he spews. If you want to believe he cares about the youth and the NR hunter then feel free, I never will. Why is jims so silent about the youth and NR in his home state of Colorado? I will tell you why... .hypocrite.

So you do agree with this current thread’s premise but you don’t like the guy. I understand. It s a shame we can’t disagree with someone and not trash him at every opportunity.

You other two guys: If we took a poll, I strongly suspect you would be in the minority about this issue. Anyone who wants to do a “western hunt” should be allowed to enjoy that amazing adventure at some point. Limit NRs yes, but don’t just leave us crumbs
[/QUOTE]


Why? Why should they "be allowed"?

Nothing is stopping anyone from moving to Wyoming.

This idea that you are "owed" anything by a state you don't reside in, is ridiculous.
 
Not exactly sure why it’s such a bad idea for nonres to request that the task force allow nonres the opportunity to draw all tags available in the public drawing rather than allowing these nonres tags to be cut off the top before a public draw and issued to nonres that sign contracts with outfitters. This has absolutely nothing to do with Wyo res hunters!
 
Not exactly sure why it’s such a bad idea for nonres to request that the task force allow nonres the opportunity to draw all tags available in the public drawing rather than allowing these nonres tags to be cut off the top before a public draw and issued to nonres that sign contracts with outfitters. This has absolutely nothing to do with Wyo res hunters!

How about 90/10 for deer, elk, and antelope? You're against that remember.....
 
Not exactly sure why it’s such a bad idea for nonres to request that the task force allow nonres the opportunity to draw all tags available in the public drawing rather than allowing these nonres tags to be cut off the top before a public draw and issued to nonres that sign contracts with outfitters. This has absolutely nothing to do with Wyo res hunters!
Paging Dr. Deflection……
 
Take a look at it if you are a Wyo nonres diy/oyo hunter.

What happens when landowners plus outfitters limited high demand tags are taken off the top prior to the public draw. Now cut nonres limited quotas in 1/2 with 90/10. How many tags now remain in the public draw to nonres diy/oyo hunters that have devoted years to applying for and purchasing expensive pref pts each year?

I can pretty much guarantee there will be fewer new nonres willing to start out paying high pref pt fees if few to 0 tags are issued. Pref pts will leap and only those hunters with max pts will likely draw the hand full of high demand tags available.

How many nonres will likely drop out of the Wyo pref pt game? My guess is that the WG&F will be the big losers with loss of the current easy revenue from nonres elk, deer, and antelope pref pt fees. Why pay high pref fees if only a few nonres tags are issued to nonres with max pts?
 
"I can pretty much guarantee there will be fewer new nonres willing to start out paying high pref pt fees if few to 0 tags are issued. Pref pts will leap and only those hunters with max pts will likely draw the hand full of high demand tags available."

This is already happening. You're making it sound like thousands of tags will be taken away from the NR pool, and we won't be able to DIY hunt in Wyoming anymore.

I've got 15+ points for multiple species in multiple states, because I want a quality, limited opportunity hunt. If one of those particular units isn't available, I chose another.

Write your letter, go to the meeting, I believe EVERYONE on MM is aware of your stance on this topic
 
"I can pretty much guarantee there will be fewer new nonres willing to start out paying high pref pt fees if few to 0 tags are issued. Pref pts will leap and only those hunters with max pts will likely draw the hand full of high demand tags available."

This is already happening. You're making it sound like thousands of tags will be taken away from the NR pool, and we won't be able to DIY hunt in Wyoming anymore.

I've got 15+ points for multiple species in multiple states, because I want a quality, limited opportunity hunt. If one of those particular units isn't available, I chose another.

Write your letter, go to the meeting, I believe EVERYONE on MM is aware of your stance on this topic

It's just more scare tactic from jims. He's on every other social media platform doing the same thing. The poor youth....
 
Creating set-aside permits for outfitters and guides violates the principles of free market economics and the North American Model of wildlife management.

In a free market, outfitters and guides would attract business through their knowledge, experience and expertise. Generally speaking, a professional guide/outfitter is probably going to have a lot more resources and knowledge than your average hunter, especially someone from out of state or a hunter that hasn't hunted an area before. If what the outfitter has to offer is priced at a rate the hunter is willing to pay, then it is a perfect situation. A win-win that benefits both parties.

If there are permit set-asides (which equate to economic subsides) for the outfitters and guides, it takes choice away from hunters and forces more hunters to purchase the services of an outfitter.

This also violates the North American model idea of "the democracy of wildlife" whish states that wildlife should fairly available to all citizens regardless of wealth, class, status, etc. It also creates a market for wildlife by letting those willing to pay lots of money to skip the "fair" part of the drawing process because of their money. It attaches the price of guiding and outfitting to the wildlife permits.

I think Wyoming's Guide and Outfitter Association have some really good lobbyists that have pushed things so far. The wilderness guiding requirement for non-residents is another great example of them taking away hunters freedom in order to gain financial benefit.

It really seems contradictory to the conservative, freedom-loving culture of Wyoming.
 
Creating set-aside permits for outfitters and guides violates the principles of free market economics and the North American Model of wildlife management.

In a free market, outfitters and guides would attract business through their knowledge, experience and expertise. Generally speaking, a professional guide/outfitter is probably going to have a lot more resources and knowledge than your average hunter, especially someone from out of state or a hunter that hasn't hunted an area before. If what the outfitter has to offer is priced at a rate the hunter is willing to pay, then it is a perfect situation. A win-win that benefits both parties.

If there are permit set-asides (which equate to economic subsides) for the outfitters and guides, it takes choice away from hunters and forces more hunters to purchase the services of an outfitter.

This also violates the North American model idea of "the democracy of wildlife" whish states that wildlife should fairly available to all citizens regardless of wealth, class, status, etc. It also creates a market for wildlife by letting those willing to pay lots of money to skip the "fair" part of the drawing process because of their money. It attaches the price of guiding and outfitting to the wildlife permits.

I think Wyoming's Guide and Outfitter Association have some really good lobbyists that have pushed things so far. The wilderness guiding requirement for non-residents is another great example of them taking away hunters freedom in order to gain financial benefit.

It really seems contradictory to the conservative, freedom-loving culture of Wyoming.
@jims was all for the outfitters in the past. Now he has jumped ship and joined the 1 man force to fight the evils done to NRs everywhere.
In my opinion, an NR has zero say in this fight and should be grateful for whatever opportunities another state lets them participate in. Otherwise, @jims should move there if he is this worked up over Wyoming NR rules.
 
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Creating set-aside permits for outfitters and guides violates the principles of free market economics and the North American Model of wildlife management.

In a free market, outfitters and guides would attract business through their knowledge, experience and expertise. Generally speaking, a professional guide/outfitter is probably going to have a lot more resources and knowledge than your average hunter, especially someone from out of state or a hunter that hasn't hunted an area before. If what the outfitter has to offer is priced at a rate the hunter is willing to pay, then it is a perfect situation. A win-win that benefits both parties.

If there are permit set-asides (which equate to economic subsides) for the outfitters and guides, it takes choice away from hunters and forces more hunters to purchase the services of an outfitter.

This also violates the North American model idea of "the democracy of wildlife" whish states that wildlife should fairly available to all citizens regardless of wealth, class, status, etc. It also creates a market for wildlife by letting those willing to pay lots of money to skip the "fair" part of the drawing process because of their money. It attaches the price of guiding and outfitting to the wildlife permits.

I think Wyoming's Guide and Outfitter Association have some really good lobbyists that have pushed things so far. The wilderness guiding requirement for non-residents is another great example of them taking away hunters freedom in order to gain financial benefit.

It really seems contradictory to the conservative, freedom-loving culture of Wyoming.
Yea well in a free market it would be like Texas where outfitters don't even need an outfitting licence and the best survive but it's not soo....
 
I think if a state is going to throw outfitters a bone, the outfitter should be a resident of that state. Otherwise, what would be the point except just to cater to people who can afford a guide?

I quit Wyoming some years ago
 
Creating set-aside permits for outfitters and guides violates the principles of free market economics and the North American Model of wildlife management.

In a free market, outfitters and guides would attract business through their knowledge, experience and expertise. Generally speaking, a professional guide/outfitter is probably going to have a lot more resources and knowledge than your average hunter, especially someone from out of state or a hunter that hasn't hunted an area before. If what the outfitter has to offer is priced at a rate the hunter is willing to pay, then it is a perfect situation. A win-win that benefits both parties.

If there are permit set-asides (which equate to economic subsides) for the outfitters and guides, it takes choice away from hunters and forces more hunters to purchase the services of an outfitter.

This also violates the North American model idea of "the democracy of wildlife" whish states that wildlife should fairly available to all citizens regardless of wealth, class, status, etc. It also creates a market for wildlife by letting those willing to pay lots of money to skip the "fair" part of the drawing process because of their money. It attaches the price of guiding and outfitting to the wildlife permits.

I think Wyoming's Guide and Outfitter Association have some really good lobbyists that have pushed things so far. The wilderness guiding requirement for non-residents is another great example of them taking away hunters freedom in order to gain financial benefit.

It really seems contradictory to the conservative, freedom-loving culture of Wyoming.
I don't disagree with your premise, but that ship has sailed.

Governor tags, Commissioner tags, One Shot tags, woman's hunt tags, handicapped tags, yada yada yada
 
I've heard that gluing yourself to the floors at NBA games is a new way to protest. Maybe try that one, seems to get good press. Buzz has already told us that landowner tags and outfitter tags are dead in the water, so you have nothing to worry about Jims.

Rich
they are not dead in the water yet buzz was over confident
 

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