Point Banking is on the Agenda for CPW Changes

Thill

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Point creeping cannot stop until the applicants start using the points.

Point banking offers the opportunity to start shedding points. I believe point banking will benefit some and will in the short run facilitate point creep until the model has time to work its self out. The biggest winners will be all of the point holders in no man's land 10-20ish points. I personally have a couple of buddies that are in that group and they now have realized that statistically they would die before pull the coveted tag. Bank pointing would benefit them in the fact that one of them said he would start shedding points by purchasing cow tags to scout other units to replace this abandoned dream. Of course this means the it might take an extra point for cow tags in the unit or units they are looking at.

I surmise all of the applicants in no mans land would not have started collecting points if they knew they would not have a chance to ever go on the hunt. We are moving in a rough direction with CWD/wolves/declining herds/increasing outdoor recreation.

Fair or not we have to start somewhere.

Hopefully one of the other focus groups can address the OTC tags or OTC tags with caps. As long as these options exist the majority of these point holders will continue to hunt every year and gain points(facilitating point creep) as they still hunt every year.

Remember point banking was part of the agenda that the CPW sent to me and the other attendees. Don't completely blame me, but I did select it as an option I would support since several of mu ideas were off the table for discussion.

I am going to start a new topic in a few minutes - Point Banking.
 
LOVE it! For clarification.....I only have 1 or 2 points for most species after burning them up over the last few years so it's not like I'd benefit from this.
 
The only good idea is Idaho's. We all need to acknowledge that there aren't enough "premium" hunts to go around. As such each hunter should be restricted to one application per state per year for what are considered premium hunts(one species, not every species). And all of them should be once in a lifetime harvest. We support these systems that maximize F&G revenues to the detriment of the hunters, and for the most part get nothing in return.
 
Point creeping cannot stop until the applicants start using the points.

Point banking offers the opportunity to start shedding points. I believe point banking will benefit some and will in the short run facilitate point creep until the model has time to work its self out. The biggest winners will be all of the point holders in no man's land 10-20ish points. I personally have a couple of buddies that are in that group and they now have realized that statistically they would die before pull the coveted tag. Bank pointing would benefit them in the fact that one of them said he would start shedding points by purchasing cow tags to scout other units to replace this abandoned dream. Of course this means the it might take an extra point for cow tags in the unit or units they are looking at.

I surmise all of the applicants in no mans land would not have started collecting points if they knew they would not have a chance to ever go on the hunt. We are moving in a rough direction with CWD/wolves/declining herds/increasing outdoor recreation.

Fair or not we have to start somewhere.

Hopefully one of the other focus groups can address the OTC tags or OTC tags with caps. As long as these options exist the majority of these point holders will continue to hunt every year and gain points(facilitating point creep) as they still hunt every year.

Remember point banking was part of the agenda that the CPW sent to me and the other attendees. Don't completely blame me, but I did select it as an option I would support since several of mu ideas were off the table for discussion.

I am going to start a new topic in a few minutes - Point Banking.

Posting this here as well since you started a new post.


So.... because people can't look at the writing on the wall and built up a ton of points (while at the same time getting tags every year according to you) we should gift them multiple tags for those points in lesser point units pushing out several people that didn't horde points..... yeah that makes total sense.

The reality is, if you have 10-20 points you got your pick of some really good hunts especially as a resident.

Those points should get you "A" tag not several tags. No need to change the rules now because lot's of people didn't know how to read draw odds reports or just didn't think to look. I see no reason to let people get multiple tags over others just because they can't hunt the unit they initially set out to hunt.
 
Thill can you bring any more context to your statement in the other post about point pressure on few units? Kinda confused me if it was deer or elk or just the top few of both?

BTW I commend your efforts and investment into this. Kinda sounds like cpw is casting a net out there to appease or have a statistic of outreach but the net is likely not woven real tight or likely nothing will change as you stated.
 
The high point holders lost, while they were on the sidelines some of us were hunting quality herds, multiple years partially due to them being out. Now they get a shadow of what it was. Currently sitting on zero points!
That's their fault they could of hunted when they wanted.
 
Point banking, after it was tried one year, has been shot down every other time it has been brought up since. Because it was found to be a poor idea that helps nothing. The theory is that it would help point creep in high-demand units, but that's a false hope. Thousands of guys who don't understand math very well ("I have 8 points and it took 20 points to draw that unit so I can draw it in 12 years") have been hoarding points for hunts they can never draw in their lifetimes. Any relief that banking would give to high-demand hunts, by peeling away a few of those point hoarders, it would in turn have the opposite effect of making point creep far worse for the low-demand hunts. You know, the areas where the guys with brains have been hunting and killing stuff, over and over again, by drawing repeatedly using a couple of points or less.
 
The high point holders lost, while they were on the sidelines some of us were hunting quality herds, multiple years partially due to them being out. Now they get a shadow of what it was. Currently sitting on zero points!
I think your wrong most high point holders have been hunting their butts off, I’m coasting right now burning those high points and not trapped in the middle or the bottom. I do feel for the guys that put time in and are sitting on 10 to 20 points . The guys with 25 to 30 points are hunting what they want. The quality might not be the same but when your in your sixties and can draw a hunt with 5 or 10 tags life is good.
 
Pt banking is a HORRIBLE idea! Point creeping will go to point leaping and not benefit anyone. There are so few tags issued in units like 2, 10, and 201 that point banking won't make a difference.

If you think about it, point banking allows hunters to draw multiple tags rather than just 1 tag. Tags that take 0 to medium number of pts to draw will suddenly take a chunk more pref pts to draw.

A guy with 16 pts currently has the choice of only drawing 1 tag. With point banking the same guy with 16 pts could potentially use his pts to draw 2 or more tags. He could draw a unit that takes 8 pts twice. He could also draw a unit that takes 4 pts a total of 4 times. He could also draw a unit that takes 14 pts + a 2nd tag that takes 2 pts. It is a misconception that it will aid point creep on even the top tier units since applicants that have been applying only for pts will likely suddenly apply for tags. There are so few tags available in these units!

To add to the mess, now that the hunter has point banked he will likely draw tags more often since he is drawing tags rather than just building pts.

Each time the hunters draw additional tags they take tags away from someone else. Again, the guy with 16 pts with the current system can only draw 1 tag. Pretty much all units will take more pts to draw since hunters will likely burn rather than just build pts at all levels. Creep will explode in low to medium pref pt levels. It is also a misconception that pt creep will slow with time since a lot more hunters will be vying for tags. Again, they will burn pts rather than just sitting back and accumulating pts.

Point banking is a horrible idea for point creeping at all levels!
 
I agree with losing your points if you buy an OTC license. The way it is now, the same guy pressures the high-point units and the OTC units at the same time.

Or cut to the chase and make points WAY more expensive.
 
Haha... In 4 years from now, all the guys who used to hunt units taking less than 5 points.... Why cant I draw a tag anymore? It is almost like I need way more points just to get the tag I used to get every other year...

The only real fix for point creep.... Go back to random draw, no more points for anyone. Everyone with current points enjoys a squared weighted draw until the system is purged of points.

Back to random every year...
 
Me too then I can sell the points my wife has for a profit. I can then trade my points to an outfitter, I could build points for my wife, son daughter, aunt and more... Nothing better than averaging!!!
You could sell them: once. If you invested 20 years in points and want to charge someone to help them get a tag, I see nothing wrong with that. Because you then have 0 points again, not 20

BUT, they will have to not allow a loophole where YOU could then turn your tag back in, but the rest of the group could still hunt. If you point average, only way to restore points is for everyone in the group to turn tags back in. Only way it works.
 
First off I am against point banking.
People who have many points have them for different reasons. Some of us hunt every year and plan for future hunt with points (some being saved for after retirement).

It’s amazing that guys with top points are criticized by others that they could of or should of already used their points. This was really brought out in the Wyoming 90/10 discussion about NR with top sheep points. What gives someone the right to tell me tough luck because I could of hunted unit X if I hired a guide. Who the hell are they to tell me how to hunt!!

Point creep is real and a problem. Some have a lot of points chasing a certain unit(s) that seem to be just out of reach. Only real way to try to even control creep (or slow it) would be to use points on any drawn tag.

Residents need to also realize the funding NR have contributed to their state’s wildlife. I can’t believe people in Colorado want to raise NR cost even more when they pay peanuts and get to hunt all year long.
 
Point banking will give the hunters in no mans land a chance got hunt not necessarily a top unit but a better unit a couple times. It will add to the problems that already exist.
 
The way I see it, point banking EVENTUALLY evens the field. But the switch is hard. All of a sudden the low point holders who have been benefitting from high point holders stuck on the sideline have realized what might happen to their easy draws. Sure, the boat is getting rocked a bit if this goes through but it will settle out over time, and the points it takes will be the points it takes, for everyone. Might actually reflect the actual quality/demand for a given hunt. The days of hunting an under-valued unit yearly or at least nearly so may be ending. As hopefully are the days of chasing an over-valued unit for 3 or 4 decades. The DOW is likely considering this move in advance of reducing NR % share of the tags in the next 5-10 years, if not sooner or doing away with OTC. If they kept current points system and then also reduced NR quota and OTC simultaneously, they would be bogged down in an immediate fiscal mess and a lot of vocal and maybe even legal grievances taking up their time.
 
The way I see it, point banking EVENTUALLY evens the field. But the switch is hard. All of a sudden the low point holders who have been benefitting from high point holders stuck on the sideline have realized what might happen to their easy draws. Sure, the boat is getting rocked a bit if this goes through but it will settle out over time, and the points it takes will be the points it takes, for everyone. Might actually reflect the actual quality/demand for a given hunt. The days of hunting an under-valued unit yearly or at least nearly so may be ending. As hopefully are the days of chasing an over-valued unit for 3 or 4 decades. The DOW is likely considering this move in advance of reducing NR % share of the tags in the next 5-10 years, if not sooner or doing away with OTC. If they kept current points system and then also reduced NR quota and OTC simultaneously, they would be bogged down in an immediate fiscal mess and a lot of vocal and maybe even legal grievances taking up their time.
Evens the field? Try makes a whole bunch of lower and middle point units move significantly higher…
 
You could sell them: once. If you invested 20 years in points and want to charge someone to help them get a tag, I see nothing wrong with that. Because you then have 0 points again, not 20

BUT, they will have to not allow a loophole where YOU could then turn your tag back in, but the rest of the group could still hunt. If you point average, only way to restore points is for everyone in the group to turn tags back in. Only way it works.
Yep! That’s what Nevada went to.
 
Convert preference points to bonus points. Preference point systems are terrible for most hunters.
Not for the low tier units. Most tags in Colorado can be drawn every few years and preference points help you plan a hunt. Why screw with that.

I have no problem with bonus point systems on higher point units. But square them
 
This point banking seems like a poor choice, I am a guy who this would benefit ( I live in no man’s land for elk with a medium amount of points) but this will take low point units to 3/4/5 pointers over night.
 
Not for the low tier units. Most tags in Colorado can be drawn every few years and preference points help you plan a hunt. Why screw with that.

I have no problem with bonus point systems on higher point units. But square them
That’s another thing Nevada does that I like.
 
Point Banking is a NO-GO idea for me. Would screw the guys that hunt 0-
Pt banking is a HORRIBLE idea! Point creeping will go to point leaping and not benefit anyone. There are so few tags issued in units like 2, 10, and 201 that point banking won't make a difference.

If you think about it, point banking allows hunters to draw multiple tags rather than just 1 tag. Tags that take 0 to medium number of pts to draw will suddenly take a chunk more pref pts to draw.

A guy with 16 pts currently has the choice of only drawing 1 tag. With point banking the same guy with 16 pts could potentially use his pts to draw 2 or more tags. He could draw a unit that takes 8 pts twice. He could also draw a unit that takes 4 pts a total of 4 times. He could also draw a unit that takes 14 pts + a 2nd tag that takes 2 pts. It is a misconception that it will aid point creep on even the top tier units since applicants that have been applying only for pts will likely suddenly apply for tags. There are so few tags available in these units!

To add to the mess, now that the hunter has point banked he will likely draw tags more often since he is drawing tags rather than just building pts.

Each time the hunters draw additional tags they take tags away from someone else. Again, the guy with 16 pts with the current system can only draw 1 tag. Pretty much all units will take more pts to draw since hunters will likely burn rather than just build pts at all levels. Creep will explode in low to medium pref pt levels. It is also a misconception that pt creep will slow with time since a lot more hunters will be vying for tags. Again, they will burn pts rather than just sitting back and accumulating pts.

Point banking is a horrible idea for point creeping at all levels!
I agree with the post above.
Point banking would be a bad idea.

However I think point sharing under the proper conditions would be good.
 
NR here trying to draw w/ 6 this year in CO.

Point banking sounds terrible for those that are too young to have gotten in 20+ years ago. Point averaging seems reasonable.
 
Take a look at deer compared to elk in Colo. As soon as Colo converted over to all draw for deer the deer quality went through the roof, it was a lot easier to draw tags, fewer hunters in the field, and the cpw could finally manage deer and hunter numbers. Take a look at the % of draw vs otc elk units in Colo. There are a heck of a lot more otc than limited units. There really aren’t that many limited elk units that every hunter is trying draw tags for.

We can argue all day about pt banking and averaging but these won’t make near the impact to pt creep compared to going to all draw for elk. All hunters that draw elk tags will then be burning pts rather than accumulating pts and hunting otc.
 
Jims as a guy who has loved OTC I agree, I think making it all draw isn’t a horrible idea, something needs to happen to ease some of the pressure. also breaking up some of the unit clusters into single unit tags, make guys pick where they will hunt. I think quality would go up. Unfortunately CPW is just interested in selling tons of tags so not sure if any of our discussions ever really matter they just want them dollars.
 
Just because they go to all limited doesn’t mean they have to cut tags. They could sell close to the same number of tags.
 
Baby steps. Fight for limited elf tags first. Then chip away at other things you want. As stated, make liberal tag numbers to start.

For anyone who has found a good place to hunt, only to have 20 trucks parked at the trailhead the next year: limiting all elk tags will be a good way to stop big shifts of hunters to different areas from year to year.

It consumes preference points AND, it is an absolute prerequisite to limiting NR numbers.
 
Baby steps. Fight for limited elf tags first. Then chip away at other things you want. As stated, make liberal tag numbers to start.

For anyone who has found a good place to hunt, only to have 20 trucks parked at the trailhead the next year: limiting all elk tags will be a good way to stop big shifts of hunters to different areas from year to year.

It consumes preference points AND, it is an absolute prerequisite to limiting NR numbers.
I agree, because too many elf tags could ruin Christmas!
 
I can’t believe that people really think the CDOW is actually evaluating “public input”. I’ve attended these meeting for decades, all this pre chatter about what’s on the table blah blah.


Word to the wise…… they already know what they want to do, you the concerned citizens telling war stories at these meetings isn't going to change that!


Oh,,,,, go back and search threads prior to the last 5 year structure…….common theme and output. Worse than what caliber should I use for prairie dogs., second to my dad and I are planning a trip type threads.
 
I haven’t found that to be true.

One example: random posting of returned tags 5 days a week was working well for CPW. They wanted to continue that practice (as did I). The commissioners listened to their constituents and over ruled the CPW wishes and returned to posting them ahead of time and selliing them on one day a week

However when it comes to any change that will result in losing money, in would have to agree with you.
 
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I refuse to get caught up in the CPW drama right now. I've learned by doing that they have their agenda and by the time these come to the public the decision is 99% done. CPW, Colorado DNR, is controlled by extremist. PERIOD!! Dan Gibbs is really a decent guy but he is under the thumb of Polis and his Peta puffer martial better half. The CPW board I nothing more than an over glorified board of directors with stripped powers.
 
I refuse to get caught up in the CPW drama right now. I've learned by doing that they have their agenda and by the time these come to the public the decision is 99% done. CPW, Colorado DNR, is controlled by extremist. PERIOD!! Dan Gibbs is really a decent guy but he is under the thumb of Polis and his Peta puffer martial better half. The CPW board I nothing more than an over glorified board of directors with stripped powers.
Sadly this seems pretty true…
 
Only going to get worse now that they ran Prenzlow out. Not to mention the joke that is the commission board
So short of voting the first dudes out we don’t have much of a shot of getting a solid commission or people who even marginally care about outdoorsmen?
 
So short of voting the first dudes out we don’t have much of a shot of getting a solid commission or people who even marginally care about outdoorsmen?

Yup.only consulation is the 3 that might be true conservationist but still a minority. Only their in office for political purposes. "See, they have a seat".
 
I generally stay out of these kinds of conversations because I hate arguing and I'm not a Pro like some folks on this forum. Knowing I'm going to regret this, here goes.....

It seems like the folks against point banking (and I don't have a dog in this fight with almost no points) all try and make the argument that the low tier units are going to jump up 1, 2, 3+ points to draw. How many high point holders do you think are going to flood the MANY thousands of low point tags that are currently being drawn? The idea that all the folks with a material number of points will eat up the low point tags for multiple years is silly. And if it did happen.....a lot of the mid and high point tags just became really accessible for a lot less points. Do the math......it doesn't work out like you're suggesting. Can there be point creep....certainly. Are we talking about changing any one hunt code from 0.5 years of point creep annually to 0.6 years of point creep because of this....probably. That's more likely how it works out. But it certainly won't be doom and gloom for the folks who are quite aggressively protecting their 1 or 2 point tags

When put in place in combination with a 90/10 allocation, the impact of point banking would likely net to lower point creep. There are lots of things being considered and it's okay to think about these choices in combination versus just a silo.

At the end of the day, I don't care what they do but try not to make your case based on hyperbole absent of facts/logic.
 
Point banking is pitched as a solution to point creep. All it really does is reward the people who have been chasing a dream that was clearly unattainable. It's not going to make a bit of difference in point creep for the premium hunt codes, and it will affect many of the easier to draw units. So I guess the question is, what is point banking really solving and why should we support it?

In 2021, there were 16,522 applicants with 10 or more deer preference points. There were 1,505 deer licenses awarded to those applicants. That leaves a whole lot of people chasing something they're never going to catch. They are free to apply for any lower point hunt code of their choosing, but they shouldn't be rewarded with multiple licenses just because there is some perceived value to preference points.
 
When more than 1 tag can be drawn with pt banking that means at least 1 of those "extra" tags is taken from someone else. Believing that pt banking won't accel pt creep is nuts!

There are literally thousands of hunters that currently purchase pts each year. Instead of guys applying for pts a lot of hunters would likely take full advantage of the pt banking system and draw several tags.

Another thing some may not understand is how about the guy with 4ish pts? Suddenly a guy with 4 pts has the option to draw 2 tags that require 2 pts each. It's not only the guys with a gob of pts that will take advantage of pt banking. Also, how many hunters in no mans land will also take full advantage of pt banking?

As ColoOak mentioned above, pt banking will do absolutely nothing to increase odds significantly to draw premium units. There are only a couple tags issued each year with a humungous number of applicants with close to max pts. There also are even more max pt guys that apply for pref pts each year on the sidelines! The belief that pt banking will increase odds or ease pt creep in premium units is ludicrous!

To add on to the mumbo-jumbo....do any of you guys in favor of pt banking know how many additional hunters apply for tags each year in Colo compared to how many draw tags? The number of new applicants each year dwarfs how many tags are issued!

With all that said, about the only way to ease pt creep is to issue more tags. The only way Colo will be able to issue more tags is 1) to increase critter numbers, or 2) convert over to all limited tags for elk so hunters burn pts with each tag they draw.

How many OTC bull elk tags were sold in Colo last year? According to the 2021 harvest reports there have been over 57,000 elk hunters that purchase OTC tags each year that don't burn pref pts. Just think if those 57,000 hunters were required to burn rather than build pref pts. I rest my case!
OTC colo elk.jpeg
 
Terry.....I didn't suggest it would solve point creep. I even said it would add to it. My point was that some folks are way over exaggerating how much additional point creep it would cause. I don't care either way. If people don't like it for what ever reason, that's fine by me but no reason for folks to make stuff up in support of a personal opinion/preference. Again....(specifically) I was just calling out the part about how it's going to turn 1 point tags into 3 point tags, etc. That simply won't happen. Two completely different "commentaries" on the same topic....point banking (not reducing point creep). : )
 
Even if a fairly substantial number of people drop out of applying to higher point tags, the odds for those tags won’t increase noticeably. But it will increase creep for the lower points tags. I believe the math does work.
 
The experiment happened once and it didn't cause a massive change in points necessary to draw (probably should clarify I'm only talking about resident odds). To be fair, that comment is not based on an exhaustive review of the data or anywhere close to it. I did look at a number of hunts and saw very little movement in point creep at the time. Maybe it would be different this time around or if it went on for multiple years? But....the one time they tried it there was no material point creep in hunts I looked at for whatever that is worth.
 
The experiment happened once and it didn't cause a massive change in points necessary to draw (probably should clarify I'm only talking about resident odds). To be fair, that comment is not based on an exhaustive review of the data or anywhere close to it. I did look at a number of hunts and saw very little movement in point creep at the time. Maybe it would be different this time around or if it went on for multiple years? But....the one time they tried it there was no material point creep in hunts I looked at for whatever that is worth.
I would not expect a big jump in points required. Because point banking only takes what it needs. So it is probably a mistake to make the statement that it increases creep considerably.

What it does is replace those people with a few points, who would have gotten the tag, with someone with lots of points. And that is repeated for multiple years. I would only expect “creep” to go up 0.5-1 point.
 
I generally stay out of these kinds of conversations because I hate arguing and I'm not a Pro like some folks on this forum. Knowing I'm going to regret this, here goes.....

It seems like the folks against point banking (and I don't have a dog in this fight with almost no points) all try and make the argument that the low tier units are going to jump up 1, 2, 3+ points to draw. How many high point holders do you think are going to flood the MANY thousands of low point tags that are currently being drawn? The idea that all the folks with a material number of points will eat up the low point tags for multiple years is silly. And if it did happen.....a lot of the mid and high point tags just became really accessible for a lot less points. Do the math......it doesn't work out like you're suggesting. Can there be point creep....certainly. Are we talking about changing any one hunt code from 0.5 years of point creep annually to 0.6 years of point creep because of this....probably. That's more likely how it works out. But it certainly won't be doom and gloom for the folks who are quite aggressively protecting their 1 or 2 point tags

When put in place in combination with a 90/10 allocation, the impact of point banking would likely net to lower point creep. There are lots of things being considered and it's okay to think about these choices in combination versus just a silo.

At the end of the day, I don't care what they do but try not to make your case based on hyperbole absent of facts/logic.
The point banking will create a ripple effect. It will look like this... A unit taking 5 points, a guy has 18 points. This year he uses 6 points to take a 5 point tag. This leave him 12 points. The tag he takes at six point means someone with 5 does not draw when the normally would. So now that guy has 6, Then the guy with 6 left does this again, and another person with 5 does not draw, and it happens again. Now someone who was originally sitting at 4 points going for the 5 point unit sees this and is seeing the point creep. He has at least 2 more years to catch the creep. So now he is either going to wait it out and draw a tag that took 5 points with 7 or he will look else where. So with 4-5 points he gets tired of being a year behind so he picks a 3 point unit to dump in, bumping someone with 3 into a tag with 2... It is a ripple effect. The person who really wins is the guy that will get several decent tags and each of those tags will be at the expense of someone else who had the points to draw but got bumped in line... The only way to decrease point creep is to reduce the points, banking will use high points but will force inflation in loser points. Just like what our government is doing right now... Guys that were not looking to buy a 5 point unit with their all or nothing points will simply buy a less product and inflate its value.
 
I would not expect a big jump in points required. Because point banking only takes what it needs. So it is probably a mistake to make the statement that it increases creep considerably.

What it does is replace those people with a few points, who would have gotten the tag, with someone with lots of points. And that is repeated for multiple years. I would only expect “creep” to go up 0.5-1 point.
I think the number of points held by guys in the 10-20 point range is huge and as a result no one person will bump points a bunch but when you have thousands to will definitely cause the points to climb. Once they climb they will never decrease and only keep climbing.
 
Not for the low tier units. Most tags in Colorado can be drawn every few years and preference points help you plan a hunt. Why screw with that.

I have no problem with bonus point systems on higher point units. But square them
Agree. I'm a NR and we come to Colorado every other year, getting a PP in the off year. We study the draw histories and know what we can draw. How can you make plans and schedule vacation if you don't have a good idea what you can draw. A random draw kills that. As for the premium units, I think the quotas are way too low. They could be raised significantly and still maintain quality hunting. This would ease the point demand and creep.
 
Agree. I'm a NR and we come to Colorado every other year, getting a PP in the off year. We study the draw histories and know what we can draw. How can you make plans and schedule vacation if you don't have a good idea what you can draw. A random draw kills that. As for the premium units, I think the quotas are way too low. They could be raised significantly and still maintain quality hunting. This would ease the point demand and creep.
Which deer hunting units can take more tags? What Pronghorn units? I would suspect that even in the top elk units a 5 tag increase would have a good impact... Especially when you consider with that 5 tag increase they get divded out by landowner, resident, non etc. So even a 5 tag increase in unit 2 does not change the odds hardly at all for any group. Definitely not enough to change point creep.
 
A valid concern is that for almost every draw/species/gmu, a significant number of guys who draw a particular hunt, under point banking would be left with spare points, whether they intended that or not. If you look at the hunt recaps for deer, elk, pronghorn and bear, more than half of the hunt codes have some to several guys burning more points than needed. And, in some cases, burning FAR more points than needed. Just as an example, here's unit 49 archery elk last year. In that case, and assuming the "minimum plus one" banking rule is still used, then 19 of the 100 guys who drew that hunt would be left with some points after drawing. You can look at the recaps and find hundreds of hunt codes where that is the case. So besides those who would intentionally utilize the banking system to get the maximum bang for their points, there's also what you might call "unintentional point banking" which is also going to affect point creep. And I don't believe the effect is insignificant, especially in the long haul of 5-10 years.

EE049O1Afor2021.jpg
 
The fact that we give out 47 non res tags in a unit that takes 6+ points to draw is ridiculous
 
The fact that we give out 47 non res tags in a unit that takes 6+ points to draw is ridiculous
Totally agree. It should be at least 80/20. And yes, I know you think 90/10

But fight the battles you have a shot at winning. FIRST make the CPW honor their own rules (80/20 units that take 6 points or more)

Second, stop giving NR so much power. I realize many residents think raising NR prices solves the problem, but as I have shown before, that math doesn’t work. Every time you raise our price you give us a bigger seat at the table.
 
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Tx I agree, 8/20 would be a start but for 6+ points 90/10 would be appropriate. I agree it’s a state run money machine they won’t ever want to shut it off.
 

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CJ Outfitters

Hunt Colorado's premier trophy units, 2, 10 and 201 for trophy elk, deer and antelope.

Allout Guiding & Outfitting

Offering high quality mule deer, elk, bear and cougar hunts in Colorado units 40 and 61.

Ivory & Antler Outfitters

Hunt trophy elk, mule deer, moose, antelope, bear, cougar and turkey on both private land and BLM.

Urge 2 Hunt

We offer both DIY and guided hunts on large ranches all over Colorado for archery, muzzleloader and rifle hunts.

Hunters Domain

Colorado landowner tags for mule deer, elk and antelope. Tags for other states also available.

Flat Tops Elk Hunting

For the Do-It-Yourself hunters, an amazing cabin in GMU 12 for your groups elk or deer hunt.

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