A new twist in the corner cross case

**Translation - We don't like the ranch manager substantially asking on video do they know how much my boss is worth? Or the warden and deputy saying the hunters weren't breaking the law.

There's a lot of information in that video. The state should have done a better job if they didn't want the video released.

If Carbon County is worried about money maybe they should prosecute actually crimes, such as the alleged hunter harassment by the ranch manager and his employees. Where's that case?
 
The prosecutor realizes the case is about to go down in flames.
Worse than that for the greedy Landowners, the verdict will establish Wyo case law that will result in either incresed access for the public or costly appeals to keep the status quo. You know what they say, when the tide goes out, you see who is wearing clothes. This should be interesting.

Kudos to the Missouri boys for not being pressured into pleading guilty or accepting a plea.
 
Worse than that for the greedy Landowners, the verdict will establish Wyo case law that will result in either incresed access for the public or costly appeals to keep the status quo. You know what they say, when the tide goes out, you see who is wearing clothes. This should be interesting.

Kudos to the Missouri boys for not being pressured into pleading guilty or accepting a plea.
Until the Legislature gets involved.
 
You're wrong that a District Court decision sets precedent and you clearly don't understand that the legislature writes the laws that the District court enforces.
Am I? The hunter's defense is that that the Wyoming Law that they are being charged with conflicts with Federal Law, specifically the Unlawful Inclosures of Public Lands Act of 1885.

If a state statute conflicts with a valid federal statute, then courts may strike down the statute as an unstatuable violation of the Supremacy Clause.

So yes, they could write a new law, but as I said, it would be wise to wait for the District Court's ruling. They are not simply the legislature's Brownshirts.
 
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Am I? The hunter's defense is that that the Wyoming Law that they are being charged with conflicts with Federal Law, specifically the Unlawful Inclosures of Public Lands Act of 1885.

If a state statute conflicts with a valid federal statute, then courts may strike down the statute as an unstatuable violation of the Supremacy Clause.

So yes, they could write a new law, but as I said, it would be wise to wait for the District Court's ruling. They are not simply the legislature's Brownshirts.
I think what he's saying is that one district court can't interpret law and set precedent for the whole state.

If the legislature were to enact a law that unlawfully restricted access in violation of a federal law, it would take a higher court, likely the Wyoming Supreme Court, to overturn it and legalize corner crossing statewide.

Maybe I'm wrong, he's welcome to correct me.
 
That is great news!!!!

“Iron Bar Holdings has a right to exclusive control, use, and enjoyment of its Property, which includes the airspace at the corner, above the Property,” wrote prosecutors in the civil suit.

Maybe that same billionaire landowner shouldn't be allowed to fly in a fancy airplane over other people's properties?

Are we gong to start seeing landowners installing telephone poles on property corners now?
 
That is great news!!!!

“Iron Bar Holdings has a right to exclusive control, use, and enjoyment of its Property, which includes the airspace at the corner, above the Property,” wrote prosecutors in the civil suit.

Maybe that same billionaire landowner shouldn't be allowed to fly in a fancy airplane over other people's properties?

Are we gong to start seeing landowners installing telephone poles on property corners now?
If they want to be fined...
 
Don't hold your breath....the feds won't do anything
Right even though they already have...and guess what the chain and lock are off the tposts... according to Steve Grende in court testimony.

Why would that be?
 
I’ve never had a lack of response from the feds regarding any wildlife issue. YMMV.
 
Right even though they already have...and guess what the chain and lock are off the tposts... according to Steve Grende in court testimony.

Why would that be?
I wasn't aware there were cases where the Feds fined individuals over posts designed to prevent corner crossing, do you have links?

How much did they all pay?

Was Steve Grende fined for the chain?
 
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Isn't it funny how the chain and locks came off at the same time the federal judge took the civil case.:unsure:
I think they're related, but I've not heard of any actual fines being levied over the prevention of corner crossing.

I hope they enforce it, but didn't know they had already. I'm hoping Buzz will posts some references as they'd be interesting to read.
 
I wasn't aware there were cases where the Feds fined individuals over posts designed to prevent corner crossing, do you have links?

How much did they all pay?

Was Steve Grende fined for the chain?
You know, how about you just find a private ranch to hunt since all you like to do is argue. Sounds like you favor that over public land. I'm over the ten thousand questions and second guessing armchair quarterback crap of yours. How about you take on one of these issues for a change and I'll lob stones all day.

Do your own research, like I have.
 
You know, how about you just find a private ranch to hunt since all you like to do is argue. Sounds like you favor that over public land. I'm over the ten thousand questions and second guessing armchair quarterback crap of yours. How about you take on one of these issues for a change and I'll lob stones all day.

Do your own research, like I have.
Lol pot meet kettle.
 
You know, how about you just find a private ranch to hunt since all you like to do is argue. Sounds like you favor that over public land. I'm over the ten thousand questions and second guessing armchair quarterback crap of yours. How about you take on one of these issues for a change and I'll lob stones all day.

Do your own research, like I have.
I've been on the Board for BHA and donated to the GoFundMe for the corner crossing case; to pretend I don't support public land here is laughably stupid. You said the feds have fined for blocking corner crossing under the Unlawful Inclosures Act (yes, that's the correct spelling).

I respectfully asked where and you attack. I'll take it that means you've spoken out of turn and don't actually know of any instances where a landowner has been fined by a federal agency for preventing corner crossing.
 
I've been on the Board for BHA and donated to the GoFundMe for the corner crossing case; to pretend I don't support public land here is laughably stupid. You said the feds have fined for blocking corner crossing under the Unlawful Inclosures Act (yes, that's the correct spelling).

I respectfully asked where and you attack. I'll take it that means you've spoken out of turn and don't actually know of any instances where a landowner has been fined by a federal agency for preventing corner crossing.
Do some research...and inclosures is an old English spelling...I prefer the American spelling. We kicked the losers out of the country a long time ago, didn't care for being ruled by a king.

I haven't spoken out of turn and again, think about why the chain and locks have been removed.

You may also want to do some research into BLM grazing leases...hint.

You're not trying to be helpful...at all. It's your usual...yeah, but BS.

If you dare:


 
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Do some research...and inclosures is an old English spelling...I prefer the American spelling. We kicked the losers out of the country a long time ago, didn't care for being ruled by a king.

I haven't spoken out of turn and again, think about why the chain and locks have been removed.

You may also want to do some research into BLM grazing leases...hint.

You're not trying to be helpful...at all. It's your usual...yeah, but BS.

If you dare:

I know "Inclosures" is an outdated word, it's still the name used in the law. I know this because I've done my own research.

I've also heard Randy's podcasts, I've still not heard a case of an individual being fined by the federal government for preventing corner crossing as you said has happened.

I asked who would fine somebody for putting up a telephone pole.

You said, "Federal government.... unlawful enclosures act"

I said, "I guess we'll see if it's enforced like that."

Marburg said, "Don't hold your breath....the feds won't do anything."

You said, "Right even though they already have..."

I said, "I wasn't aware there were cases where the Feds fined individuals over posts designed to prevent corner crossing, do you have links?"

jm77 brought up Grende to which I replied, "I think they're related, but I've not heard of any actual fines being levied over the prevention of corner crossing.

I hope they enforce it, but didn't know they had already. I'm hoping Buzz will posts some references as they'd be interesting to read."

You then attacked me, though I never attacked you in any way.

You now made the post above referring to the English as losers, again brought up Grende's chain (which he testified he took down a month and testified served no purpose, which I think we both know is BS, but there is still no evidence Grende was fined for it), you are now trying to distract with BLM grazing leases, resorted to another attack, and posted a link to a podcast with somebody else's opinion.

It seems it would've been easier to just post some of the research you say you've done into the people that have already been fined by the feds for preventing corner crossing that you referenced above.

I'll watch for those links of federal agencies fining individuals for putting corner posts with the intention of preventing corner crossing. I look forward to reading them.
 
The feds have enforced the act...study up.

You just don't know...what you dont know, not your fault.

You'll see in time.


9e07de09445ec1fe93940b7ff341ff3b.jpg
 
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The feds have enforced the act...study up.

You just don't know...what you dont know, not your fault.

You'll see in time.


View attachment 75481
The feds have enforced the Attempt To Evade Or Defeat Tax Act, too. That doesn't mean they've used it to fine people for putting up corner posts that are too tall... which is exactly what your said they've done with the Unlawful Inclosures of Public Land Act.

But instead of answering a simple question about something you said has already happened, you resort to more attacks and now memes.

I've never said your examples don't exist, yet you insist they do but refuse to provide them ?

I'll let you keep up the attacks and distractions because everybody can see what went down here.

You can have the last word.
 
BLM enforces Unlawful Inclosures of Public Lands Act 43 USC 1061-64.

I would also like to see evidence where the BLM has fined an individual for a post that prevents corner crossing. I’ve worked with BLM’s Law Enforcement, they are spread extremely thin and corner crossing is not high on their list of priorities.
 
BLM enforces Unlawful Inclosures of Public Lands Act 43 USC 1061-64.

I would also like to see evidence where the BLM has fined an individual for a post that prevents corner crossing. I’ve worked with BLM’s Law Enforcement, they are spread extremely thin and corner crossing is not high on their list of priorities.
You don't file the complaint with the BLM...
 
? BLM enforces Unlawful Inclosures of Public Lands.
If you are being denied access right now to public lands you can call BLM Law Enforcement at (800) 637-9152. If you are experiencing an emergency I urge you to dial 911 and ask for the Sheriff’s Office. I hope this helps.
 
Do you read?
BLM is responsible for the Enforcement. Surely you can bring something more to the table than snide comments all the time. Educate me, prove me wrong, I’m man enough to admit when I’ve made a mistake.
 
BLM is responsible for the Enforcement. Surely you can bring something more to the table than snide comments all the time. Educate me, prove me wrong, I’m man enough to admit when I’ve made a mistake.
I think he's attempting to refer to enforcement by lawsuit after a citizen files a complaint...

§1062. Suits for violations of law

It shall be the duty of the United States attorney for the proper district, on affidavit filed with him by any citizen of the United States that section 1061 of this title is being violated showing a description of the land inclosed...


The primary substance of the Act is below...

§1063. Obstruction of settlement on or transit over public lands

No person, by force, threats, intimidation, or by any fencing or inclosing, or any other unlawful means, shall prevent or obstruct, or shall combine and confederate with others to prevent or obstruct, any person from peaceably entering upon or establishing a settlement or residence on any tract of public land subject to settlement or entry under the public land laws of the United States, or shall prevent or obstruct free passage or transit over or through the public lands
 
I think he's attempting to refer to enforcement by lawsuit after a citizen files a complaint...

§1062. Suits for violations of law

It shall be the duty of the United States attorney for the proper district, on affidavit filed with him by any citizen of the United States that section 1061 of this title is being violated showing a description of the land inclosed...


The primary substance of the Act is below...

§1063. Obstruction of settlement on or transit over public lands

No person, by force, threats, intimidation, or by any fencing or inclosing, or any other unlawful means, shall prevent or obstruct, or shall combine and confederate with others to prevent or obstruct, any person from peaceably entering upon or establishing a settlement or residence on any tract of public land subject to settlement or entry under the public land laws of the United States, or shall prevent or obstruct free passage or transit over or through the public lands
You may be right. He asked who was responsible for enforcing that and it falls under BLM jurisdiction. Unfortunately he doesn’t know when to stop digging….
 
You may be right. He asked who was responsible for enforcing that and it falls under BLM jurisdiction. Unfortunately he doesn’t know when to stop digging….
When I served on a Federal Grand Jury, it was U. S. Marshals who were the enforcement arm of the U. S. Attorney's office.
 
The Attorney General is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the United States. The executive branch enforces laws. The U.S. Marshals, Customs, DEA, ATF, CBP, FBI, BLM, Federal Game Wardens and many others are the Enforcement Arm per say of the U.S. Attorneys Office. These agencies enforce laws, make arrests and present the evidence to the U.S. Attorneys Office who decides if the case is prosecutable. Each one of these agencies has the authority to do something the other agency can’t. For instance, the Border Patrol can conduct Warrantless Searches and Seizures. Other agencies can’t.
 
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For instance, the Border Patrol can conduct Warrantless Searches and Seizures. Other agencies can’t.
Without reasonable suspicion? Google it...

I'm not sure how you think the 4th Amendment pertains to most LEO and not all.

• Border Patrol cannot search the interior of a vehicle without the owner’s consent or “probable cause” (a reasonable belief, based on the circumstances, that an immigration violation or crime has likely occurred). • Agents can obtain probable cause for a search if a drug-sniffing dog legitimately “alerts” to the presence of drugs. If Border Patrol uses a drug-sniffing dog and falsely claims the dog has alerted to the presence of drugs or contraband in your vehicle, record as much information about the incident as possible and report it.
 
Border Search Exception is a doctrine that allows searches and seizures at international borders and their functional equivalent without a warrant or probable cause.

CFR 287
 
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Within 100 air miles, that’s why Border Patrol Checkpoints are within 100 miles of the border, “functional equivalent.”
Wrong. Almeida-Sanchez v U.S. found warrantless search 20 miles from border was a 4th amendment violation.

So much for "functional equivalent". Why do you seem to revel in an LEO that can violate your 4th Amendment right?
 
Wrong. Almeida-Sanchez v U.S. found warrantless search 20 miles from border was a 4th amendment violation.

So much for "functional equivalent". Why do you seem to revel in an LEO that can violate your 4th Amendment right?
Wrong! ?

I love the 4th Amendment, the law is the law. The Supreme Court has ruled Warrantless Searches and seizures are Constitutional at the border or it’s functional equivalent.

This was taught to me in Georgia at FLETC in the 1980’s. Sir, I spent 30 years enforcing Immigration, Nationality, Criminal and Statutory law.
 
Wrong! ?

I love the 4th Amendment, the law is the law. The Supreme Court has ruled Warrantless Searches and seizures are Constitutional at the border or it’s functional equivalent.

This was taught to me in Georgia at FLETC in the 1980’s. Sir, I spent 30 years enforcing Immigration, Nationality, Criminal and Statutory law.
Well the district attorney in Carbon County has been enforcing corner crossing for quite some time too. Look what has been happening there....
 
You had oversight....laughable. You act like you know everything by what you post, but it's pretty clear you know nothing.

So tell me how many FOIA requests have YOU recieved in the last six months? One year? Do tell about this "oversight crew" you're involved in. I thought you were an expert in immigration, nationalization, 4th Amendment, etc etc. Of course that was back in 1980 at FLETC. Are you one of those fruit fly cops? We had one on here before.
 
I haven’t received any ever. The agency receives thousands. Seeing how I have been retired since 2017 I couldn’t give you an accurate number of how many they have received in the last six months or year. Do you think there is a Magic FOIA Fairy that waves a wand and the information is automatically sent! ? People have to gather the requested information and determinations have to be made on what can be reviewed by the public. You offer nothing but attacks, present some information and we can debate it. I know that may be difficult for you. You see it’s not what you don’t know that gets you in trouble, it’s what you know for certain that’s just not true.
 
I never said I received them. You definitely have some reading comprehension issues. “Enough said” because you have nothing to offer, you have no proof or evidence to support your claim? Of course. I only know what I did for 30 years, it’s the only experience I have to draw on. I wouldn’t dare tell you that I know more about your profession than you do whatever that profession may be, but hey, some people know everything.
 
I bet on her eyes she thinks the next argument is just a continuation of the last one. She'll not admit defeat until the very last card is played ?
She was defeated like no other. She had the deputy serve those 2020 charges while the jury pool for the first trial sat and watched it happen. She also had a sympathetic judge. The jury still found those men not guilty in less than an hour.
 
She was defeated like no other. She had the deputy serve those 2020 charges while the jury pool for the first trial sat and watched it happen. She also had a sympathetic judge. The jury still found those men not guilty in less than an hour.
I hope they're found not guilty again. I'm merely speaking to the fact that she's still fighting it... wrongly, IMO.
 
I hope they're found not guilty again. I'm merely speaking to the fact that she's still fighting it... wrongly, IMO.
I missed it. Did they file new charges? I heard someone say they decided to charge them for hunting in 2020?

This is turning into a witch hunt and I hope this case gets thrown out as it feels like this DA is harassing and trying to intimidate the public…
 
She should be ashamed of herself.

She lose her law license for serving papers in front of an active jury

The citizens of Carbon County should demand she is terminated
 

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