Point Guard PLUS?

$25 gets you three years you can turn your tag back in and keep your points instead of $5 for one year. With current point guard the next time you draw a tag you have to hunt it. Should be popular.

Translation : For three years you can point share with someone
( cough.....$ ) and keep your points.
 
Gotta give them credit. They sure find unique ways to up the revenues. Like a crack addict, guys will be all over this new $25!
 
Cheap Resident point riding is a real problem (or opportunity). Do you think anyone at AZGFD even thinks about point riding before increasing the opportunity to 3 years with PointGuard “Plus”?

AZGFD has never seen a revenue idea they didn’t like.
 
Cheap Resident point riding is a real problem (or opportunity). Do you think anyone at AZGFD even thinks about point riding before increasing the opportunity to 3 years with PointGuard “Plus”?

AZGFD has never seen a revenue idea they didn’t like.
They wonder why they can't get the point pools to cycle.....
 
Cheap Resident point riding is a real problem (or opportunity). Do you think anyone at AZGFD even thinks about point riding before increasing the opportunity to 3 years with PointGuard “Plus”?

AZGFD has never seen a revenue idea they didn’t like.
Gonna be a lot of 85 year old grannies pulling that 23N tag 3 consecutive years and never step foot in the unit!
 
Soon to be found in the classified ads. "I have 24 or whatever deer elk pronghorn points and do not need them for three years, help me cover my gas money and food for my other state hunts I have planned."
This will be bad for point creep/ point cycling for sure.
 
I read it differently looks like three consecutive draws not years so it would cover all species for all draws. if you entered for deer and sheep in June it would then cover the draw in October for Javelina and then it would also cover the draw in February for antelope and elk too.
 
I read it differently looks like three consecutive draws not years so it would cover all species for all draws. if you entered for deer and sheep in June it would then cover the draw in October for Javelina and then it would also cover the draw in February for antelope and elk too.
I doubt that....
 
I read it differently looks like three consecutive draws not years so it would cover all species for all draws. if you entered for deer and sheep in June it would then cover the draw in October for Javelina and then it would also cover the draw in February for antelope and elk too.
I think you might be correct;

  • For $25, an applicant will have the opportunity to surrender a hunt permit-tag and have their bonus points reinstated for all eligible big game species for three consecutive draw cycles from the date of purchase.

  • For example, an applicant who only applies once a year to hunt deer might choose PointGuard for $10 per species. On the other hand, if an applicant applies for multiple species in any of the fall, spring, or pronghorn and elk draws — or all three — being covered for three consecutive draw cycles from the date of purchase for $25 makes PointGuard Plus a tremendous value.
Note the old standard PointGuard price has been raised from $5 to $10 per species…

Horniac
 
It’s a bundle deal instead of paying five dollars per species in three different draws you pay 25 dollars one time for all species. Your one year will start in whatever draw you purchase point guard plus in. Which will cover all species over the next couple draws. They raised the price from five dollar to ten dollars Per species on point guard so it will make the bundle deal seem better and threw in a couple perks like first in line for return tags. You DO NOT get three years to turn your tag in.
 
I read it differently looks like three consecutive draws not years so it would cover all species for all draws. if you entered for deer and sheep in June it would then cover the draw in October for Javelina and then it would also cover the draw in February for antelope and elk too.
Ok, that makes more sense. Thanks.
 
I read the email three times last night and still am not sure exactly how it will work… Need some more clarification from someone with AZGFD.
 
I really hope it is just to sell the package deal for three species but one time as it has been, just to make a couple more dollars from people who would buy one or two for 10 and 20 bucks, that $25 bucks will add up really fast.
 
GAME AND FISH NEWS
May 4, 2022

New opportunity to protect bonus points a real "Plus"
PointGuard Plus offers additional tier of PointGuard service
-ut6adezrrvfnbteg-b11a98254a398c5ab3d82c563fe656c4.jpg

All of us know what it feels like to deal with the frustration and disappointment of an unforeseen event. After all, life happens.

That’s why the Arizona Game and Fish Department (AZGFD) is introducing “PointGuard Plus,” an innovative new product that will be available just in time for hunters who will be applying for 2022 hunt permit-tags for deer, fall turkey, fall javelina, bighorn sheep, fall bison and sandhill crane.

Whether an applicant purchases PointGuard Plus, or the standard PointGuard, he or she will have peace of mind in knowing they can surrender their hunt permit-tag for any reason, and the accumulated bonus points that were expended to draw that hunt permit-tag will be reinstated (see details below).

A bonus point is an accumulated credit that authorizes the department to issue an applicant additional computer-generated random numbers during a draw. An applicant accumulates a bonus point each year in which he or she submits a valid application and does not draw a hunt permit-tag.

So, what are the advantages of PointGuard Plus?
  • For $25, an applicant will have the opportunity to surrender a hunt permit-tag and have their bonus points reinstated for all eligible big game species for three consecutive draw cycles from the date of purchase.
  • PointGuard Plus can be purchased from the time of completing an online application, right up to the deadline to update credit card or debit card information (prior to AZGFD processing hunt applications). The fee is non-refundable.
  • Those who purchase PointGuard Plus will receive priority positioning for the reissuing of hunt permit-tags that are surrendered by PointGuard members and non-members alike.
  • A free AZGFD portal account is not required to purchase PointGuard Plus. A portal account is still needed for those applicants wishing to view their draw results, however.
  • PointGuard Plus is completely discretionary.
And PointGuard?
  • Like PointGuard Plus, standard PointGuard is available to all applicants when applying online for a hunt permit-tag.
  • PointGuard is $10 per species (an increase of $5), per applicant, and also can be purchased from the time of completing an online application until the deadline to update credit card or debit card information. The fee is non-refundable.
  • Only one hunt permit-tag may be surrendered, per species. If an applicant is drawn in the future for that particular species, that hunt-permit tag must be used, expending all accumulated bonus points. Only then may an applicant participate again in PointGuard (and PointGuard Plus).
  • A free AZGFD portal account is not required to purchase PointGuard. A portal account is still needed for those applicants wishing to view their draw results, however.
  • PointGuard is completely discretionary.
So, which tier of PointGuard service is the way to go? It really comes down to how many species an applicant chooses to hunt and, if successful in the draw, their willingness to risk losing their bonus points in the event they’re unable to participate in that hunt.

For example, an applicant who only applies once a year to hunt deer might choose PointGuard for $10 per species. On the other hand, if an applicant applies for multiple species in any of the fall, spring, or pronghorn and elk draws — or all three — being covered for three consecutive draw cycles from the date of purchase for $25 makes PointGuard Plus a tremendous value.

In either case, PointGuard Plus and PointGuard both provide the same opportunity for an applicant to surrender their hunt permit-tag for any reason and retain their coveted bonus points.

Here is the process to surrender a hunt permit-tag:
  • A hunt permit-tag must be surrendered prior to the close of business the day before the start of that particular hunt.
  • An applicant who has purchased PointGuard Plus or PointGuard will present the original hunt permit-tag to be surrendered, along with a completed tag surrender application form, in person to any customer service representative at any of the department’s statewide office locations. The documents also can be submitted by mail. All documents must be received no later than close of business one day prior to the beginning of a hunt.
  • The hunt permit-tag being surrendered and PointGuard Plus or PointGuard purchase will be verified by the department.
  • The department will restore all accumulated bonus points for that particular species, including the bonus point the applicant would have accrued if not successful in the draw.
  • The hunt permit-tag fee is non-refundable.
A person who donates, or transfers, his or her hunt permit-tag to a qualified nonprofit organization, also can participate in tag surrender, provided the requirements listed above are fulfilled. An acceptable proof of the transfer must be provided to the department through a qualified nonprofit organization.

According to rule (R12-4-118), the department has several options for the reissuance of a surrendered hunt permit-tag. The proximity to the start of a particular hunt, the type of hunt permit-tag, and demand for that hunt permit-tag will factor into how it will be reissued.

For more information, call 602-942-3000.​
 
I’m guessing/hoping it is still just one return per species.

But one could construe this paragraph to apply to three consecutive reinstatements.
  • For $25, an applicant will have the opportunity to surrender a hunt permit-tag and have their bonus points reinstated for all eligible big game species for three consecutive draw cycles from the date of purchase.
 
Also - I skimmed over this detail the first two times I read it, there is the second carrot dangling out there for the extra $ well done marketing dept....

  • Those who purchase PointGuard Plus will receive priority positioning for the reissuing of hunt permit-tags that are surrendered by PointGuard members and non-members alike.
 
Also - I skimmed over this detail the first two times I read it, there is the second carrot dangling out there for the extra $ well done marketing dept....

  • Those who purchase PointGuard Plus will receive priority positioning for the reissuing of hunt permit-tags that are surrendered by PointGuard members and non-members alike.
So the regular “next in line” for declined cards is unaffected? This would only apply to tags surrendered after the draw? Am I interpreting that correct?
 
I’m guessing/hoping it is still just one return per species.

But one could construe this paragraph to apply to three consecutive reinstatements.
  • For $25, an applicant will have the opportunity to surrender a hunt permit-tag and have their bonus points reinstated for all eligible big game species for three consecutive draw cycles from the date of purchase.
I interpret it to mean that the fee covers "...three consecutive draw cycles..." for all the species applied for compared to the one species/one cycle for the standard Point Guard fee. I don't believe it has anything to do with the number of returns.

For only one species, it's not a big deal. For three draws, it amounts to $25 instead of $30 under the new standard PG fee . But if a guy applies for lots of different critters, the savings will be pretty hefty.
 
Also - I skimmed over this detail the first two times I read it, there is the second carrot dangling out there for the extra $ well done marketing dept....

  • Those who purchase PointGuard Plus will receive priority positioning for the reissuing of hunt permit-tags that are surrendered by PointGuard members and non-members alike.
This whole PointGuard Plus needs more clarifying from the department. What does ”priority positioning” even mean?

Does that mean someone with PointGuard Plus would jump over the next alternate in-line for a returned tag who didn’t buy PointGuard Plus?

Does this apply to credit card rejects in the original draw so that PointGuard Plus holders would get the tag over the next applicant in the draw order who otherwise would have got the tag but only had the $10 PointGuard or no PointGuard at all?

Horniac
 
Clear as mud comes to mind when I read this. I agree with Horniac, the department needs to issue a better description of what this is and how it works.
 
Clear as mud comes to mind when I read this. I agree with Horniac, the department needs to issue a better description of what this is and how it works.
To me, most of it is pretty clear about how it works.

The only murky part that I see is this:
  • Those who purchase PointGuard Plus will receive priority positioning for the reissuing of hunt permit-tags that are surrendered by PointGuard members and non-members alike.
The "priority positioning" part needs some clarification as to what that means compared to anyone else.

shrugging.gif
 
Honestly it's a bit of a scam to charge for "point guard". To my knowledge AZ is the only western state doing it that way. Probably should just be an ordinary option for anybody, and then just charge an additional admin fee to those who actually elect to turn a tag back in. Unless, on second thought, they were going to use the "point guard" revenue to hire a programmer capable of re-writing that incredibly awkward hunt application system to bring it up to the user-friendly standards of the millenium. But most likely if they still haven't done that after all these years, they're probably not gonna.
 
"Priority positioning" puts you right after AZ GFD staff and family. But before their friends and neighbors.

Next year, I hear there will be a $50 "plus-plus" option that puts you in front of the in-laws of staff. It will also be offered inside a $500 package that includes a 5-point hunter ed online course and two entries for the ever expanding Dec-Feb bull/buck "limited entry" hunts. Almost forgot - all unit 12/13 buck tags and all Unit 9/10/1/27 Bull tags are moving exclusively to the "limited entry" special opportunity draw. And you are again reminded "not to confuse this limited entry opportunity with the annual draw". You know - the draw you bought points for all these years.
 
"Priority positioning" puts you right after AZ GFD staff and family. But before their friends and neighbors.

Next year, I hear there will be a $50 "plus-plus" option that puts you in front of the in-laws of staff. It will also be offered inside a $500 package that includes a 5-point hunter ed online course and two entries for the ever expanding Dec-Feb bull/buck "limited entry" hunts. Almost forgot - all unit 12/13 buck tags and all Unit 9/10/1/27 Bull tags are moving exclusively to the "limited entry" special opportunity draw. And you are again reminded "not to confuse this limited entry opportunity with the annual draw". You know - the draw you bought points for all these years.
I'm almost sorry I quit hunting now.

looneytoons.gif
 
After having to use my point guard last year for elk from a mistake on my app, I tried to change the next day (which by the way AZ doesn't let you change your app once it's done), I'm thank full to have the opportunity to buy a three year version. As of this last draw, you only got to use point guard once per species until you draw and it resets.

It would really suck to wait 20 something years, then break your arm or some such thing and not be able to hunt after a dumb mistake like mine a few years earlier.

Nothing to do with playing the system, just wanting to make it actually work when I do draw. At 60 something, this sort of thing becomes a bit more of an issue when you've vested 15 something in the points game there. Both oldmanitis when applying and the 6 months between the draw and the hunt :)

Cheers,
Pete
 
After having to use my point guard last year for elk from a mistake on my app, I tried to change the next day (which by the way AZ doesn't let you change your app once it's done), I'm thank full to have the opportunity to buy a three year version. As of this last draw, you only got to use point guard once per species until you draw and it resets.

It would really suck to wait 20 something years, then break your arm or some such thing and not be able to hunt after a dumb mistake like mine a few years earlier.

Nothing to do with playing the system, just wanting to make it actually work when I do draw. At 60 something, this sort of thing becomes a bit more of an issue when you've vested 15 something in the points game there. Both oldmanitis when applying and the 6 months between the draw and the hunt :)

Cheers,
Pete
I agree. But its a 3 draw cycle coverage, not 3 year. Its actually only 1 year. Elk/Ant draw, Deer/sheep draw, spring hunts draw.
 
This whole PointGuard Plus needs more clarifying from the department. What does ”priority positioning” even mean?

Does that mean someone with PointGuard Plus would jump over the next alternate in-line for a returned tag who didn’t buy PointGuard Plus?

Does this apply to credit card rejects in the original draw so that PointGuard Plus holders would get the tag over the next applicant in the draw order who otherwise would have got the tag but only had the $10 PointGuard or no PointGuard at all?

Horniac
After reading the email about 32 times…lol….I think the credit card reject in the original draw stays the same, meaning the next guy/gal in line gets the tag, regardless of having PG or not.

This “priority positioning” stuff appears to only apply to tags returned via Point Guard.

That’s my guess! Haha. I think it would be BS to screw the next guy in line during the original draw because he didn’t have PG. That seems very unfair.
 
I've used up my elk points with PG over the last two years. The first time, I turned the tag into AGFD. The 2nd time, I donated it to the AES's Heroes Rising Outdoors. The process was fairly simple each time.
 
When point guard was originally proposed it was also part of a club system with airline mile type tiers and benefits that could provide additional access to tags. it was pitched during the rollout of the new portal and there were clearly aspects that were outfitter sponsored. Hunters didn't like the idea of special tiers and were even averse to the myriad of tag pools and descriptions similar to what Utah had like "Limited Entry". Recently Arizona rolled out some tags called "Limited Entry" and I fear the same cast of troublemakers that pushed for a big Arizona hunt expo and hundreds of welfare tags pulled from the public trust are finding increasingly innovative ways to direct tags to their cronies. You only need to compare the authors of the expo proposal from a few years ago to the "non profits" eligible to accept surrendered tags through point guard to see what is going on.

I attended the portal/club/point guard meetings 5 plus years ago at G&F headquarters and did a point by point dissection of the problems with point guard. I beleive Scott Lavin was the technical person doing the presentation for this program. the issue of point sharing abuse due to limitations on tag surrenders but absolutely no limitations for those who bonus up on group applications every year was mentioned. in the end no limitations were implemented on group applications and there are many guys who have hunted very good mid-tier units every year on the backs of their non hunting family members ever since. it is certainly a great thing for outfitters who help play matchmaker for regular clients and kids and 90 year olds with a heartbeat and a hunting license.

While other states have started to put limitations on tag surrenders Arizona has found new ways to expand our out of control cluster flock called Point Guard. if the people that implemented this program were long time Arizona hunters rather than new transplants they would have known that just because there is technology available to implement certain things it isn't in the best interest of the hunting public to do so. The point guard problem could be fixed by requiring everyone on a group app to surrender their tag if one person does or to put limitations on how much a person can bonus up their application on a group app (leverage cannot be more than two points higher than the lowest applicant). Until that happens we have a black market open that allows some well financed and well positioned people to step in front of the line every year. completely unacceptable IMO. and I agree, if this new genius $25 deal has priority I positioning we need to understand EXACTLY what that means and there should be a GRAMA request to see where every surrendered tag has gone since the inception of the point guard program. Allowing a higher fee that provides benefits across draw cycles is just a way for outfitters to lock in the POS point guard system for even longer.

Arizona is a big state with a large population and dry and limited hunting areas. We don't have the capacity to allow these kind of circuses anymore. if I see another side by side with out of state plates rolling through 6a with crossbows in the bed during archery season I am going to lose it. We can thank point guard and the weak crossbow regulations for that both of those things. I thought Arizona was on the right track with the camera ban but clearly there is a whole lot of stupid going on right now. With crap like this it is embarrassing to call myself an Arizonan.

Conserve and Protect.....I will save my rant on that one for another day.

Ryan
 
Gonna be a lot of 85 year old grannies pulling that 23N tag 3 consecutive years and never step foot in the unit!
Makes my head hurt to see what’s happening!
I haven’t had a Resident tag since 1995. I’m going on 75 now. 20 deer points, 26 RMBS, 18 elk points, 18 antelope, & Lifetime Resident Hunting License since I moved out of state
in ‘07. Nothing works & Im about out of years it seems. No good deed goes unpunished!
Jerry Gold in Windsor, Colorado
 
When point guard was originally proposed it was also part of a club system with airline mile type tiers and benefits that could provide additional access to tags. it was pitched during the rollout of the new portal and there were clearly aspects that were outfitter sponsored. Hunters didn't like the idea of special tiers and were even averse to the myriad of tag pools and descriptions similar to what Utah had like "Limited Entry". Recently Arizona rolled out some tags called "Limited Entry" and I fear the same cast of troublemakers that pushed for a big Arizona hunt expo and hundreds of welfare tags pulled from the public trust are finding increasingly innovative ways to direct tags to their cronies. You only need to compare the authors of the expo proposal from a few years ago to the "non profits" eligible to accept surrendered tags through point guard to see what is going on.

I attended the portal/club/point guard meetings 5 plus years ago at G&F headquarters and did a point by point dissection of the problems with point guard. I beleive Scott Lavin was the technical person doing the presentation for this program. the issue of point sharing abuse due to limitations on tag surrenders but absolutely no limitations for those who bonus up on group applications every year was mentioned. in the end no limitations were implemented on group applications and there are many guys who have hunted very good mid-tier units every year on the backs of their non hunting family members ever since. it is certainly a great thing for outfitters who help play matchmaker for regular clients and kids and 90 year olds with a heartbeat and a hunting license.

While other states have started to put limitations on tag surrenders Arizona has found new ways to expand our out of control cluster flock called Point Guard. if the people that implemented this program were long time Arizona hunters rather than new transplants they would have known that just because there is technology available to implement certain things it isn't in the best interest of the hunting public to do so. The point guard problem could be fixed by requiring everyone on a group app to surrender their tag if one person does or to put limitations on how much a person can bonus up their application on a group app (leverage cannot be more than two points higher than the lowest applicant). Until that happens we have a black market open that allows some well financed and well positioned people to step in front of the line every year. completely unacceptable IMO. and I agree, if this new genius $25 deal has priority I positioning we need to understand EXACTLY what that means and there should be a GRAMA request to see where every surrendered tag has gone since the inception of the point guard program. Allowing a higher fee that provides benefits across draw cycles is just a way for outfitters to lock in the POS point guard system for even longer.

Arizona is a big state with a large population and dry and limited hunting areas. We don't have the capacity to allow these kind of circuses anymore. if I see another side by side with out of state plates rolling through 6a with crossbows in the bed during archery season I am going to lose it. We can thank point guard and the weak crossbow regulations for that both of those things. I thought Arizona was on the right track with the camera ban but clearly there is a whole lot of stupid going on right now. With crap like this it is embarrassing to call myself an Arizonan.

Conserve and Protect.....I will save my rant on that one for another day.

Ryan
There‘s actually two ways to fix this. As you pointed out, all applicants surrender the tag. Another way is to eliminate party apps. Everyone must apply individually.
 
I can't ***** about my home State. Even with 29 Sheep points. 15 Antelope points and only 1 tag in 33 years. I have a early rifle Bull tag this year with only 7 points. My 3rd one since 1996. 3 years ago had a late Kaibab tag with only 7 points. 4 years ago a Goulds tag with 11 Points . Long time ago a few late Coues tags too. I hunted out of State several times when not drawn in AZ. No State is Perfect..................BULL!
 
To me, most of it is pretty clear about how it works.

The only murky part that I see is this:
  • Those who purchase PointGuard Plus will receive priority positioning for the reissuing of hunt permit-tags that are surrendered by PointGuard members and non-members alike.
The "priority positioning" part needs some clarification as to what that means compared to anyone else.

View attachment 75764
Agreed. Not exactly sure what "priority positioning" means.
 
Appears they eliminated the option of one person turning in a tag multiple years in a row, which is a good thing. Well, unless you're the person with a non-hunting friend with 25 points! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Appears they eliminated the option of one person turning in a tag multiple years in a row, which is a good thing. Well, unless you're the person with a non-hunting friend with 25 points! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
Not sure what you mean. A person still can use PG twice to turn in a tag but gets BPs back only for the first time.
 
Not sure what you mean. A person still can use PG twice to turn in a tag but gets BPs back only for the first time.
My understanding of the old system was say my non-hunting spouse has 20 elk BPs and I have none. We could apply together with PG and draw a 10 point tag. I hunt. She turns in her tag and keeps the BPs. The next year, we could do the same thing, and keep doing it over and over. Yea, the cost for me to hunt is two licenses each year, but I'm hunting a 10+ pt tag every year.

If I read the new regs correctly, she can only keep her BPs the first time. After that, she loses them and we start over with zero points. Hence eliminating the perpetual ability to draw a 10+ tag every year.

Again, if I'm reading correctly. I have been known to be wrong in the past. :)
 
Nope, she would have to use the tag or donate it but either way she loses her bonus points. You can only use point guard one time. Nothing changes with point guard plus except something about priority for returned tags.
 
My understanding of the old system was say my non-hunting spouse has 20 elk BPs and I have none. We could apply together with PG and draw a 10 point tag. I hunt. She turns in her tag and keeps the BPs. The next year, we could do the same thing, and keep doing it over and over. Yea, the cost for me to hunt is two licenses each year, but I'm hunting a 10+ pt tag every year.

If I read the new regs correctly, she can only keep her BPs the first time. After that, she loses them and we start over with zero points. Hence eliminating the perpetual ability to draw a 10+ tag every year.

Again, if I'm reading correctly. I have been known to be wrong in the past. :)
No, the way the old PG worked is just as you indicated with the "new regs." It was always a case of losing the points after the 2nd time. So in the 3rd try, both you & wifie would start with 0 points (except HE, loyalty) if you had both drawn the first two times.

In fact, I just went through it with my elk points this past draw. As I wrote earlier: "The first time, I turned the tag into AGFD. The 2nd time, I donated it to the AES's Heroes Rising Outdoors. The process was fairly simple each time."

So I now have a loyalty BP, but I'm done applying. I'm still sitting on a passel of antelope points, however.
 
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