Utah tag surrender

DonVathome · May 14, 2022

From what I see I can surrender my tag, keep my points and get a refund. The only downside (besides the pain of giving up my first Utah tag in 23 years of applying) is I do not gain a point correct?

Before anyone gets salty I drew WY sheep & cow bison. My Utah mid rifle South Slope Diamond mnt elk tag starts 10/8. WY sheep starts 10/1. I must put all my time into sheep.

elkhunterUT · May 14, 2022

Definitely a no brainer to turn in your tag given your situation.

As long as you turn it in at least 30 days prior to the opening date of your hunt, you will keep all your points but won’t earn a new point for the year. I also don’t believe you get a refund unless you meet some pretty defined requirements which I don’t think you do in this circumstance.

Good luck-seems you already have some great tags.

ridgetops · May 14, 2022

elkhunterUT said:
Definitely a no brainer to turn in your tag given your situation.

As long as you turn it in at least 30 days prior to the opening date of your hunt, you will keep all your points but won’t earn a new point for the year. I also don’t believe you get a refund unless you meet some pretty defined requirements which I don’t think you do in this circumstance.

Good luck-seems you already have some great tags.

Ya, I'm pretty sure you loose your money too.

JakeH · May 14, 2022

Is it going to take 8 days to fill your sheep tag?

treedagain · May 14, 2022

Is this something you could get a variance for?

elkantlers · May 14, 2022

treedagain said:
Is this something you could get a variance for?

No. Utah doesn't care one bit if you have a conflict.

DonVathome · May 14, 2022

JakeH likely it will not take me 8 days BUT I am not leaving sheep to head to Utah. Still debating my plan.

I checked and both hunts are 6 hours apart. That is really nice. However I sold my truck - not having a serious hunting vehicle is going to be a problem.

treedagain · May 14, 2022

elkantlers said:
No. Utah doesn't care one bit if you have a conflict.

Wrong.

devobrodie · May 14, 2022

I turned in a tag a few years ago with a similar conflict, I was able to get my points, money and a point for that year if I remember right.

elkhunterUT · May 14, 2022

devobrodie said:
I turned in a tag a few years ago with a similar conflict, I was able to get my points, money and a point for that year if I remember right.

Used to be that way-not any more

diablo · May 14, 2022

Surrender permits and refunds

What happens if you obtain a permit and then realize you won't be able to hunt? Make sure you surrender the permit to the DWR as soon as possible.

wildlife.utah.gov

Here are the rules. Pretty self-explanatory.

DonVathome · May 14, 2022

Thanks I read them I just wanted to see that some people had that experience. Yes it is pretty simple. I like the rule, fair and does discourage someone doing it over and over. If I were really picky I would say it should be 60 days out, but I think 30 is ok.

elkantlers · May 14, 2022

treedagain said:
Wrong.

How so?

BrowningRage · May 14, 2022

I'm in a pickle myself... I drew an LE deer tag, but somehow my dad also drew the general season deer tag we put in for together (using my 7 preference points and his 1). I thought if I drew the LE tag, my app for general season, as well as my preference points, would be withdrawn. My email says "withdrawn", but my dad still drew the tag, which he couldn't have drawn without my points... Anyone know how it works now that he'll turn in his general season tag to hunt with my daughter and me..?

Who knew it could get so complicated... LOL

JakeH · May 14, 2022

BrowningRage said:
I'm in a pickle myself... I drew an LE deer tag, but somehow my dad also drew the general season deer tag we put in for together (using my 7 preference points and his 1). I thought if I drew the LE tag, my app for general season, as well as my preference points, would be withdrawn. My email says "withdrawn", but my dad still drew the tag, which he couldn't have drawn without my points... Anyone know how it works now that he'll turn in his general season tag to hunt with my daughter and me..?

Who knew it could get so complicated... LOL

That one is a head scratcher lol. To bad he can't still use it since it would kinda be like gaming the system if your points wasn't used to get his tag.

hawkbill · May 14, 2022

Turn your tag back, most of the guys with high points have been turning them back for years

treedagain · May 14, 2022

elkantlers said:
How so?

I know of multiple people who have turned tags in and got a replacement the next year

middlefork · May 14, 2022

BrowningRage said:
I'm in a pickle myself... I drew an LE deer tag, but somehow my dad also drew the general season deer tag we put in for together (using my 7 preference points and his 1). I thought if I drew the LE tag, my app for general season, as well as my preference points, would be withdrawn. My email says "withdrawn", but my dad still drew the tag, which he couldn't have drawn without my points... Anyone know how it works now that he'll turn in his general season tag to hunt with my daughter and me..?

Who knew it could get so complicated... LOL

You need to look at the order in which tags are drawn.

JakeH · May 14, 2022

middlefork said:
You need to look at the order in which tags are drawn.

That doesn't explain how his dad drew with out enough points if HIS general tag/points was withdrawn.

elkantlers · May 14, 2022

treedagain said:
I know of multiple people who have turned tags in and got a replacement the next year

There are some circumstances that the DWR will work with people. Death, injury, pregnancy just to name a few. These are extreme in nature and not very common. For the most part, the DWR doesn't give a Rat's ... if you have a conflict.

treedagain · May 15, 2022

elkantlers said:
There are some circumstances that the DWR will work with people. Death, injury, pregnancy just to name a few. These are extreme in nature and not very common. For the most part, the DWR doesn't give a Rat's ... if you have a conflict.

So now your agreeing there is circumstances if you have a conflict? ?

ridgetops · May 15, 2022

treedagain said:
So now your agreeing there is circumstances if you have a conflict? ?

I don't think having too many hunts to deal with is a good reason to get a refund. Personally, I don't think the DWR should refund in that case. Especially when most guys sitting home without a tag would be thrilled to have just one of those tags that the other guy is complaining about.

rmanwill · May 15, 2022

BrowningRage said:
I'm in a pickle myself... I drew an LE deer tag, but somehow my dad also drew the general season deer tag we put in for together (using my 7 preference points and his 1). I thought if I drew the LE tag, my app for general season, as well as my preference points, would be withdrawn. My email says "withdrawn", but my dad still drew the tag, which he couldn't have drawn without my points... Anyone know how it works now that he'll turn in his general season tag to hunt with my daughter and me..?

Who knew it could get so complicated... LOL

I thought both would be withdrawn also. However, maybe he was left in by himself and drew in the 50% random draw. ?‍

Did the same thing with my son who drew last year general. Put him in with his freind with two points so if they drew, both drew and could hunt together since we are taking him along with us to teach him since he wishes to learn to hunt. Son drew limited deer. Have to make sure his friend didn't draw, since none of us drew a general deer tag this year. If he did I guess we will be taking him hunting for a few days of fun and enjoyment.

elkantlers · May 15, 2022

treedagain said:
So now your agreeing there is circumstances if you have a conflict? ?

(You're)
Now you're just arguing cause you want to be right. lol
Sure there are some special circumstances such as those I listed previously.
However, The original question was about turning a tag back in because the Original poster drew a couple of better tags.
I will stand by my statement that the DWR doesn't care if he has a conflict. They could not care less how many tags he drew and if he has time for them all.

Carry on.

treedagain · May 15, 2022

ridgetops said:
I don't think having too many hunts to deal with is a good reason to get a refund. Personally, I don't think the DWR should refund in that case. Especially when most guys sitting home without a tag would be thrilled to have just one of those tags that the other guy is complaining about.

I think you would be surprised what the DWR will do? Well maybe not, they don't really color between the lines.

treedagain · May 15, 2022

elkantlers said:
(You're)
Now you're just arguing cause you want to be right. lol
Sure there are some special circumstances such as those I listed previously.
However, The original question was about turning a tag back in because the Original poster drew a couple of better tags.
I will stand by my statement that the DWR doesn't care if he has a conflict. They could not care less how many tags he drew and if he has time for them all.

Carry on.

Having to be right is a child's game. Right is right or your (You're) wrong.
And I stand by my statement the DWR will consider and approve alot of conflicts.
?

ridgetops · May 15, 2022

BrowningRage said:
I'm in a pickle myself... I drew an LE deer tag, but somehow my dad also drew the general season deer tag we put in for together (using my 7 preference points and his 1). I thought if I drew the LE tag, my app for general season, as well as my preference points, would be withdrawn. My email says "withdrawn", but my dad still drew the tag, which he couldn't have drawn without my points... Anyone know how it works now that he'll turn in his general season tag to hunt with my daughter and me..?

Who knew it could get so complicated... LOL

My guess is he used your points to draw, then you were disqualified after the draw but he still got to keep his tag. I'm guessing if you look in a couple months, you will have zero preference points.

andrew12gauge · May 15, 2022

rmanwill said:
I thought both would be withdrawn also. However, maybe he was left in by himself and drew in the 50% random draw. ?‍
Did the same thing with my son who drew last year general. Put him in with his freind with two points so if they drew, both drew and could hunt together since we are taking him along with us to teach him since he wishes to learn to hunt. Son drew limited deer. Have to make sure his friend didn't draw, since none of us drew a general deer tag this year. If he did I guess we will be taking him hunting for a few days of fun and enjoyment.

I thought there was no random pool for general deer? Not trying to argue just genuinely curious.

diablo · May 15, 2022

andrew12gauge said:
I thought there was no random pool for general deer? Not trying to argue just genuinely curious.

There isnt. Its a pref point drawing.

rmanwill · May 15, 2022

andrew12gauge said:
I thought there was no random pool for general deer? Not trying to argue just genuinely curious.

Yes. You are correct. No random in general.

BrowningRage · May 16, 2022

middlefork said:
You need to look at the order in which tags are drawn.

I definitely did... we both assumed that if I drew an LE deer tag (which happens first in the draw) that my app for general season deer would withdraw, and he'd be left with just one point and wouldn't get his tag... I'll just have to call the DWR about it. Maybe if I call an office in Southern Utah, a janitor can answer and promise us we have our points and our tags too... LOL

Deer · May 16, 2022

To the OP, Is it worth not obtaining another preference point? For me not obtaining a preference point and losing your positioning would really make me think about what I was going to do there. How long does the sheep hunt go for?

JB1975 · May 16, 2022

I turned in a Utah mule deer tag 3 years ago. When I called in and explained I had to be in a wedding, the nice lady on the phone asked if I would be interested in a cow elk tag. Got it in the mail about 10 days later.

cbat · May 16, 2022

I had to surrender a deer tag this past season. They reinstated my points but keep the money.

Shadow · May 16, 2022

If you applied as a group and one draws LE, he gets kicked out of the general pool but the group remains with the points applied. The guy who drew LE won’t get a general tag but will accrue another point for his application to the general deer draw.
At least that’s how it worked for me when I drew LE deer in 2018.

Horniac · May 17, 2022

cbat said:
I had to surrender a deer tag this past season. They reinstated my points but keep the money.

Yes, but you did not gain a point for the current year correct?

For a NR where their is usually only 1 bonus tag not gaining the current year point and dropping down to the next point level can be the ”kiss of death“ for ever drawing the same tag again…

Horniac

cbat · May 17, 2022

Horniac said:
Yes, but you did not gain a point for the current year correct?

For a NR where their is usually only 1 bonus tag not gaining the current year point and dropping down to the next point level can be the ”kiss of death“ for ever drawing the same tag again…

Horniac

Correct no point. But got previous points back

JakeH · May 17, 2022

DonVathome said:
From what I see I can surrender my tag, keep my points and get a refund. The only downside (besides the pain of giving up my first Utah tag in 23 years of applying) is I do not gain a point correct?

Before anyone gets salty I drew WY sheep & cow bison. My Utah mid rifle South Slope Diamond mnt elk tag starts 10/8. WY sheep starts 10/1. I must put all my time into sheep.

Don, I am assuming you are a non resident, if not then this advice is void.

But they only give 1 tag for that hunt, even with 23 points your odds of drawing it again are slim to none. My advice is buck up and get both hunts done.

Here is the odds report from last year.

Shadow · May 17, 2022

Was there still only one tag for 2022 Or was bonus drawn?

diablo · May 17, 2022

There was a bonus tag this year.

Shadow · May 17, 2022

Since it was a bonus tag, I wouldn’t be so hesitant to turn it in, having 23 points, with the max point holder in 2021 at 14.
Assuming… there will be two tags next year.

JakeH · May 17, 2022

Shadow said:
Since it was a bonus tag, I wouldn’t be so hesitant to turn it in, having 23 points, with the max point holder in 2021 at 14.
Assuming… there will be two tags next year.

Yeah and next year everyone will be able to see there are two tags and the numbers will rise significantly. 23 might get it, but I still bet it's a damn big gamble. The reason the high point holders was 14 was because there was only 1 tag, everyone with more was putting in for units with a bonus tag.

I think My advice still holds true.

JakeH · May 17, 2022

Actually just spent some time looking at the odds, 23 NR points gets you a hell of a lot of good tags. Is there a reason you picked Diamond Don?

Shadow · May 17, 2022

I’d probably still gamble it because I doubt the second season Diamond will see too many 23 point guys applying next year but who knows? Non resident might be a crap shoot but if he did lose out next year, his 24 points the following year still leave lots of options, even as a non resident.

Shadow · May 17, 2022

Jake, I was just thinking exactly what you posted. I’m not entirely convinced the Diamond is worth 23 points?

DonVathome · May 18, 2022

Jake I completely agree. PLUS I will be down 1 point because I do not get a point if I surrender. I picked that unit because the 3 year average age was 7.3 (2020 average age was 7.8) bow success is pretty good and it was a little in the rut. I had been watching this unit for a while and I think a lot of guys avoided it because of no bonus tag. I have been applying there for 3 years now. I got lucky, yes I was right about tags increasing - but that new NR tag could have gone to muzzy hunt. Or the SFSW or whatever it is called.

Shadow & Jack I am also not sure if it is worth it - and I can definitely draw some other good hunts next year even without getting a point this year. I am going to make calls and decide.

Turning it in would hurt BUT the sheep tag in my pocket will comfort me quit a bit. I am really stuck on the hunts starting 7 days apart. If it was 10 I would be fine with it. What I hear this summer about bulls, rain etc will also influence me.

I do think that with the bonus tag and me loosing a point it is very likely I will not draw it again for at least 2 years.

I am also stuck because years ago in Utah I estimated missing a year (1 point) took you 5 years to catch up.

hawkbill · May 18, 2022

I would do exactly what you are doing,I have had to do the same thing before. I do not know if you have killed a sheep before, if not you will probably not draw that tag again or a Bison Tag. You are at the top of the pinnacle with high points, it sucks to turn in a tag but you have two in your pocket. What sucks even more is to be spread to thin and screw everything up. Sheep hunts are demanding, draining and in most cases quite physical. Like you said and it seems that you have done your homework and you know your future odds, I wish you the best of luck on what ever you decide. That is a lot of years you have been supporting Wildlife.