Antelope rule changes

NMBOWHNTR27 · May 17, 2022

What’s everyone’s thoughts on the basically finalized new antelope dates and tags?

roadrunner · May 18, 2022

NMBOWHNTR27 said:
What’s everyone’s thoughts on the basically finalized new antelope dates and tags?

Can you post a link?

NMBOWHNTR27 · May 18, 2022

I will try

NMBOWHNTR27 · May 18, 2022

https://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/download/commission/rule-development/pronghorn/Summary-of-pronghorn-rule-changes.pdf

Sierra · May 19, 2022

I like the changes.

roadrunner · May 19, 2022

No brainer on 4). Duh, what were they thinking in the first place. Of course everyone flocked to unit 2. Those antelope had hardly been hunted.

Youth muzzy in unit 50/52 is still way too early. It should be moved to late Sept.

NMBOWHNTR27 · May 19, 2022

I think it’s interesting. I was not in favor of changing the hunt dates just because we are killing antelope bucks at their biggest and more importantly the hunts were not conflicting any other hunts.

Swanson · May 19, 2022

Sierra said:
I like the changes.

Really? Even no scopes on muzzleloaders..for all species, but listed in the pronghorn rule changes?

5yearcoueshunter · May 19, 2022

Swanson said:
Really? Even no scopes on muzzleloaders..for all species, but listed in the pronghorn rule changes?

Yes, the no scopes would be a change to the legal definition of a muzzleloader hunt, it's not tied to any specific species rule. They will most likely pass the Antelope rule at the June 3rd meeting. If they do change the muzzleloader rule, probably won't happen until the Fall.

Bigfoot 1 · May 20, 2022

Besides the no scopes for muzzleloaders I didn’t see anything earth shattering there. I do believe there is more antelope in this State than what they are letting on to be. Before I retired I had access to all the restricted land they mentioned and the antelope were plentiful. We are seeing antelope now in Eastern, NM where we never seen them before. Monday I took a ride from Clovis to Tucumcari and there was antelope everywhere, saw 2 that had been poached and their carcasses left on the side of the road. I am currently in Las Cruces, and from Portales to West of Roswell was lots of antelope also. It’s amazing that I see more antelope than any other species yet I’ve only drawn antelope once in the past 30 years of applying.

5yearcoueshunter · May 20, 2022

Just in case anyone wants to read the "clean" or official rules that will be presented on June 3rd.

https://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/download/commission/rule-development/pronghorn/Pronghorn-rule-clean-copy.pdf

https://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/download/commission/rule-development/javelina/Javelina-rule-clean-copy.pdf

Bighorn was also on the schedule for June 3rd, but I think that got pushed back.

Reuben_Soady · May 20, 2022

The new dates significantly reduce the hunts my kid can apply for.
He's off to school the last week in August, so he can apply for ORX(off), BHS, IBX(oil), and ANT. With ANT being moved to last week in August, his chances of drawing anything is "kinda low" and that's disappointing.

LCHC · May 20, 2022

All for dates being pushed back. We were killing the bigger bucks off before the rut so hopefully now with the changes the bigger bucks can cover some of the does.

BrianID · May 20, 2022

The most interesting part of the "rule changes" is removing scopes from muzzleloaders for all big game. My muzzleloader is set up for long range shots but I think moving muzzleloaders back to more primitive weapons without scopes is a good idea.

Sierra · May 24, 2022

Swanson said:
Really? Even no scopes on muzzleloaders..for all species, but listed in the pronghorn rule changes?

Didn’t see that. I was focused on the date changes.

OCHO · May 25, 2022

BrianID said:
The most interesting part of the "rule changes" is removing scopes from muzzleloaders for all big game. My muzzleloader is set up for long range shots but I think moving muzzleloaders back to more primitive weapons without scopes is a good idea.

Can you elaborate as to why? Not asking in a sarcastic sense but I would like to here A) what your opinion on why this should happen B) what benefit you believe it will have on hunting(ers) and animals?

And what is the downside to a scoped muzzle loader and what is considered long range?

5yearcoueshunter · Jun 3, 2022

Game Commission meeting happening today, Antelope changes were adopted with 1 amendment by commissioner Lopez going against public opinion:

Unit 50, 52 - First muzzleloader hunt was changed to a rifle hunt and reduced tags from 40 to 20.

Because there are only 4 commissioners, they have to have a unanimous vote to pass the item. So basically, 1 commissioner can hold up an entire rule and risk the possibility of no hunting for that species. That puts pressure on the other commissioners to pass it, even if they don't necessarily agree with it.

This pronghorn amendment is not a huge change, but there is still big disagreement within the commission for bighorn, with commissioner Salazar wanting the "lumping" of hunt codes to be changed. They couldn't come to an agreement today, so when the Bighorn rule is suppose to be adopted in August, there is a real possibility it will fail.

BUGLEnmIN · Jun 3, 2022

5yearcoueshunter said:
Game Commission meeting happening today, Antelope changes were adopted with 1 amendment by commissioner Lopez going against public opinion:

Unit 50, 52 - First muzzleloader hunt was changed to a rifle hunt and reduced tags from 40 to 20.

Because there are only 4 commissioners, they have to have a unanimous vote to pass the item. So basically, 1 commissioner can hold up an entire rule and risk the possibility of no hunting for that species. That puts pressure on the other commissioners to pass it, even if they don't necessarily agree with it.

This pronghorn amendment is not a huge change, but there is still big disagreement within the commission for bighorn, with commissioner Salazar wanting the "lumping" of hunt codes to be changed. They couldn't come to an agreement today, so when the Bighorn rule is suppose to be adopted in August, there is a real possibility it will fail.

Lumping? Thanks you for the update by the way. What exactly is going on with the bighorn ?

5yearcoueshunter · Jun 3, 2022

BUGLEnmIN said:
Lumping? Thanks you for the update by the way. What exactly is going on with the bighorn ?

Basically the way they put all the rocky ram tags into 1 hunt code and all the deserts into another hunt code so that there is enough tags pooled together so NR pools will get tags. There are some that want to get rid of that so that each area is their own hunt code, which would result in all Bighorn tags going to residents. They are trying to find a compromise so that residents get more tags but not eliminate NR completely.

WesternSky · Jun 4, 2022

OCHO said:
Can you elaborate as to why? Not asking in a sarcastic sense but I would like to here A) what your opinion on why this should happen B) what benefit you believe it will have on hunting(ers) and animals?

And what is the downside to a scoped muzzle loader and what is considered long range?

Downside isn’t a good description,

The pressure on western big game is at a point where we need to compare success vs opportunity. I think opportunity should win over success. You know, get people out to enjoy the opportunity but theres no guarantees.

No scopes on muzzys accomplishes those goals.

WesternSky · Jun 4, 2022

To expand, I’ve killed an elk in NM with a scoped muzzleloader at 300 yards. Here in CO with open sights I’ve only taken one at 160. If I couldn’t have sealed the deal without a scope in NM, then that bull would have lived, harvest surveys would have reflected it, and maybe two people would have got the opportunity to hunt in the years after because of limited succes.

BrianID · Jun 8, 2022

OCHO said:
Can you elaborate as to why? Not asking in a sarcastic sense but I would like to here A) what your opinion on why this should happen B) what benefit you believe it will have on hunting(ers) and animals?

And what is the downside to a scoped muzzle loader and what is considered long range?

Just my opinion that modern muzzleloaders are not what muzzleloader seasons were designed for. Your welcome to have a different opinion. I'm more of a threat to deer with my muzzleloader than I am an open sighted 30-30. Making an open sight 30-30 season would be more of a "traditional hunt" than the current muzzleloader hunts are in NM.

Long range for a muzzleloader in my opinion is anything over 200 yards. With a quality muzzleloader and scope, a 500 yard shot is something a guy can realistically achieve. That wasn't even considered a possibility for a muzzleloader 30 years ago.

The biggest downside to allowing scoped muzzleloaders is that it makes most hunters much more effective which means G&F would need to issue less tags to maintain the same harvest as muzzleloader hunting without scopes.

roadrunner · Jun 9, 2022

BrianID said:
The biggest downside to allowing scoped muzzleloaders is that it makes most hunters much more effective which means G&F would need to issue less tags to maintain the same harvest as muzzleloader hunting without scopes.

Maybe. Most people that have LR muzzleloaders also chase nothing but horns and a fair amount of them won't fill a tag because of it.

Making muzzleloaders open sight only may very well cause more smaller bucks to be killed increasing the tag mortality rate.

Elk don't matter since they are hunted during the rut.

BrianID · Jun 9, 2022

roadrunner said:
Maybe. Most people that have LR muzzleloaders also chase nothing but horns and a fair amount of them won't fill a tag because of it.

Making muzzleloaders open sight only may very well cause more smaller bucks to be killed increasing the tag mortality rate.

Elk don't matter since they are hunted during the rut.

Scopes without a doubt make most hunters much more effective than open sights. I would feel very confident shooting a deer with my muzzleloader at 400 yards. If I had to use open sights, I wouldn't attempt the shot.

Scopes are not the only problem I have with modern muzzleloaders not being traditional weapons but it is an easy line in the sand to draw. The average hunter with a muzzleloader today is so much more effective at killing animals than muzzleloader hunters were 30 years ago. Move the time back 50 years and the difference is even larger. I just think think muzzleloader hunts should be more of a "traditional hunt".

If you want to hunt with a scoped muzzleloader, then do it during the "any weapon" season.

I'll still hunt with my scoped muzzleloader during the muzzleloader season in NM if it is legal. It makes a 200 yard shot with my muzzleloader a chip shot when open sights would make that a more challenging shot.

BrianID · Jun 9, 2022

roadrunner said:
Maybe. Most people that have LR muzzleloaders also chase nothing but horns and a fair amount of them won't fill a tag because of it.

You may have a point on this. I've only had one muzzleloader tag in NM 2 years ago and I ended up never pulling the trigger. I could have easily shot a young buck the last evening of the hunt but didn't need extra meat for the freezer. I hunt more for the experience than horns but if that had been a mature buck, I would have pulled the trigger.
The modern muzzleloader hunters without a doubt put much more pressure on mature bucks and bulls than the traditional muzzleloader hunters from 50 years ago did.

Reuben_Soady · Jun 9, 2022

I've always wanted to build a Hawken rifle. But I'll make sure it's a cap lock and a fast spin for conicals. The Wiki says "Hawken rifles had a reputation for both accuracy and long range." I wonder if I can get a Shilen select match-grade barrel for it?