Yet another school shooting

Thoughts and prayers don't seem to bring the dead back to life or stop the bullets in the next shooting so I think we can agree they're worthless.

My DT10 was made for sporting clays. my McMillan Dynasty was made for big game hunting. my McWorter was made for long range big game. an AR-15 was made to kill a lot of people fast. that's why they're the mass murderer's weapon of choice. can we at least agree on that ?

Once again armed teachers keeps getting tossed around like dead rat. again, an ex cop security guard in Buffalo engaged the shooter and hit him with his pistol, the shooter had full armor and was unharmed and killed the guard. are we going to have the teachers carry AR's and wear full armor or not ? or do you just want then to get shot first to eliminate the nuisance ? it's a dumb idea and not a solution just accept it. the shooter yesterday also had armor these killers are really getting into it now days. moral of the story is a good guy with a gun is the first to die if he's outgunned.

Everyone says after an event like this the politicians scream for more gun restrictions, exactly and they get to scream a lot. it's been almost 10 years since Sandy hook and NOTHING has been done at all. that's the point we've tried nothing and it hasn't worked. so they scream a lot and justifiably so.

How about passing the background check law 90 % of Americans support ? wouldn't that at least give the illusion of caring ? I'm not sure if this cull would have passed or not but all he needed was a pulse and cash to get the guns he used yesterday. it's inexcusable.
“My DT10 was made for sporting clays. my McMillan Dynasty was made for big game hunting. my McWorter was made for long range big game. an AR-15 was made to kill a lot of people fast. that's why they're the mass murderer's weapon of choice. can we at least agree on that ?”

NO, the AR15 is not the mass murderers weapon of choice. You keep repeating something that’s just not true! The handgun is involved in 77% of all mass shootings, if you really want to stop mass shootings why don’t you start with the handguns? In case you didn’t know it all the weapons you have can be used for mass murder also. Of course you don’t want your stuff banned, just everybody else’s!
 
With all due respect I said MASS SHOOTINGS.
The 1950 is a little more relevant than guys shooting down innocent victims using flint lock and black powder.
And Bigfoot you might find this pertinent.

Yes sir nice, it still doesn’t change the definition of mass shooting.
 
Your Wife Is Smart Enough to Be a School Teacher!

That Tells Me She's Smart Enough To Learn What She Needs To Learn & Pack The Gun To Protect Others & Herself!

Just Don't Know If You/blue Should Be The One Teaching Her!:D



Actually there are bans and laws that would “fix” this. We don’t like them.

My wife (CO state women’s trapshooting team, etc) is not a big fan of teachers being armed without them being properly trained. We need to at least consider the FACT that not everyone should be armed.

I would definitely support my wife’s ability to carry into her classroom.
 
Actually there are bans and laws that would “fix” this. We don’t like them.

My wife (CO state women’s trapshooting team, etc) is not a big fan of teachers being armed without them being properly trained. We need to at least consider the FACT that not everyone should be armed.

I would definitely support my wife’s ability to carry into her classroom.
Agreed and have stated the same many times! Not everybody would have a mental trigger and sometimes -they don't know until the situation shows up. Funny how people are different-My wife won't touch a shotgun or a ML but has no problem at all with handguns or rifles. I wonder how many teachers across the nation would be willing to be trained and how many would decline. We will probably never know. Even if they did a legitimate poll, we would never get legit numbers after the media decides on how they wish to report it.
 
I agree partially, but.....any shooter regardless of what they are packing are going to think really hard about entering a school where multiple staff are armed.
Why do you think they shoot them up in the first place?
The cowards know they can....
No they aren't going to care who is armed in a school, who are you trying to chit?

These people that do things like this, they aren't rational...reason and accountability left their room a long time ago. They know they're going to die and they're taking others with them.

That's a fact jack.
 
Isn't funny, well not funny but pathetic, this cull was too young to buy a Bud light for another 3 years. but he could legally buy AR's all the ammo he wanted and don't forget the seven 30 round mags at the scene. the 100 round drum must have been on back order that's too bad, the only thing between him and more firepower was money.

But there's just nothing anyone could have done to prevent it is there. WTF ever.
 
Isn't funny, well not funny but pathetic, this cull was too young to buy a Bud light for another 3 years. but he could legally buy AR's all the ammo he wanted and don't forget the seven 30 round mags at the scene. the 100 round drum must have been on back order that's too bad, the only thing between him and more firepower was money.

But there's just nothing anyone could have done to prevent it is there. WTF ever.
So it’s OK to join the military at 18 but you can’t buy a gun ? You’re a special kind of stupid
 
Isn't funny, well not funny but pathetic, this cull was too young to buy a Bud light for another 3 years. but he could legally buy AR's all the ammo he wanted and don't forget the seven 30 round mags at the scene. the 100 round drum must have been on back order that's too bad, the only thing between him and more firepower was money.

But there's just nothing anyone could have done to prevent it is there. WTF ever.
Yeah you’re right, making psychos wait until they are 21 and have more money before they buy a gun and goodies would prevent it. WTF ever.
 
I agree partially, but.....any shooter regardless of what they are packing are going to think really hard about entering a school where multiple staff are armed.
Why do you think they shoot them up in the first place?
The cowards know they can....
No they aren't going to care who is armed in a school, who are you trying to chit?

These people that do things like this, they aren't rational...reason and accountability left their room a long time ago. They know they're going to die and they're taking others with them.

That's a fact jack.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Tough one BUZZ-when we were in Spring Creek and Elko-lots of people had a gun (open carry here in Nevada) and we always felt a hell of a lot safer than we do here in Vegas. I do get your point though. Suicide by cop happens all the time. See, this is one of those issues where I can see both points. Bluehair has brought up some damn good points as well that have made me think twice. Sucks we even have to thing about this garbage! But -we do.
 
You could save deer from getting killed by the AR-15 too if you outlawed it, but you wouldn't save many deer either. All you could do is prevent future sales anyway. There's too many out there.

If I had kids in school, I'd think seriously about pulling them out. It's not much about education anymore. It's all about grooming.
 
No they aren't going to care who is armed in a school, who are you trying to chit?

These people that do things like this, they aren't rational...reason and accountability left their room a long time ago. They know they're going to die and they're taking others with them.

That's a fact jack.

I think statistically speaking most mass shootings are happening in a gun free zones. There is a reason for this, they dont want resistance. I'm pretty sure this guy was scared to go to the high school where he was picked on hence why he ran to an elementary school. As little resistance as possible.
 
I think statistically speaking most mass shootings are happening in a gun free zones. There is a reason for this, they dont want resistance. I'm pretty sure this guy was scared to go to the high school where he was picked on hence why he ran to an elementary school. As little resistance as possible.
Yep, look at the A-hole in the Vegas shooting during the concert across from the Mandalay Bay! Chicken Shyt that he was! He knew damn good and well it would take quite a while before resistance showed up. Our oldest daughter was front row, center stage when Jason Aldean was performing and was the first year her 2 sisters did not go with her or we would've had 2 more in the mix. And -are there any of us on this site who have never been picked on--probably NOT. We used to fight back with fists. My brother has been a cop for 31 years now and finally put his retirement papers in. LVT brought up gun free zones and I agree with him. Gun free zones is a free for all for gutless PUZZIES.
 
I dont know what the right answer is. But my kids elementary school you're not getting in. All doors locked and have to have ID to get in. If you're unfamiliar you simply don't get past the doors. But of course they have recess. Our town has a couple of cops that bounce in and out through the schools full time.

Biden simply taken your ar-15 , well good luck. That would create a blood bath. Let's say he did then he better lead by example by disarming the secret service. I am simply not worried about and my rifles are going no where.

Arming a teacher I don't know either. Just 4 weeks ago a teacher in our town just got charged for strangling his wife so teachers are human to..

Several teachers get DUI's. Most get let off in the end. Speaking of drinking I am more terrified of a drunk killing people than some nut running into a building. I just simply got in the habit of packing. Comes in handy. Smoke a deer with the truck and call the biologist and I get permission to end the suffering of the deer.
 
So you're saying Trump is a puzzy, we agree on something. if you go to the NRA klan rally in Houston this week Trump will be there lying on stage but you have to leave your gun behind. he blames it on the SS but he could override him if he wanted to, but he won't because he's a puzzy. let the kids have the lead keep it away from me.

18 is old enough to go get killed but not buy a beer. true, but does that have to mean 18 is old enough to buy guns to shoot up a school too ? ever hear 2 wrongs don't make a right ? try harder.

If gun laws never work why can't I buy grenades and SAM's ? when was the last grenade or Sidewinder attack on a school ? do ya think if Walmart sold them to 18 year olds it could happen ? huh ? the supreme court has never ruled that assault rifles are legal but they have that all of my guns are in the Heller decision. I want my grenades and SAM's it's my right and I'm going to whine and snivel too.
 
I dont know what the right answer is. But my kids elementary school you're not getting in. All doors locked and have to have ID to get in. If you're unfamiliar you simply don't get past the doors. But of course they have recess. Our town has a couple of cops that bounce in and out through the schools full time.

Biden simply taken your ar-15 , well good luck. That would create a blood bath. Let's say he did then he better lead by example by disarming the secret service. I am simply not worried about and my rifles are going no where.

Arming a teacher I don't know either. Just 4 weeks ago a teacher in our town just got charged for strangling his wife so teachers are human to..

Several teachers get DUI's. Most get let off in the end. Speaking of drinking I am more terrified of a drunk killing people than some nut running into a building. I just simply got in the habit of packing. Comes in handy. Smoke a deer with the truck and call the biologist and I get permission to end the suffering of the deer.

The main push is to ban sales not confiscate. even if they wanted that's not going to happen period and they know it. so saying they're going to kick your door down and try to take it simply isn't in line with the facts.
 
One grazing wound to the head and a hit on the leg.

Brave man.
headwound.jpg
 
So you're saying Trump is a puzzy, we agree on something. if you go to the NRA klan rally in Houston this week Trump will be there lying on stage but you have to leave your gun behind. he blames it on the SS but he could override him if he wanted to, but he won't because he's a puzzy. let the kids have the lead keep it away from me.

18 is old enough to go get killed but not buy a beer. true, but does that have to mean 18 is old enough to buy guns to shoot up a school too ? ever hear 2 wrongs don't make a right ? try harder.

If gun laws never work why can't I buy grenades and SAM's ? when was the last grenade or Sidewinder attack on a school ? do ya think if Walmart sold them to 18 year olds it could happen ? huh ? the supreme court has never ruled that assault rifles are legal but they have that all of my guns are in the Heller decision. I want my grenades and SAM's it's my right and I'm going to whine and snivel too.
You should look up the definition of assault. You can assault somebody with your hands, a knife, a car, a hammer and any other instrument used to inflict bodily damage.

Why do you lefties always refer to the last Republican President when something goes wrong on your watch? Isn’t this bidens shooting, shouldn’t biden have done something about this already. biden has been in the government for 49 years, surely old joe seen this before, surely he had a plan on how to stop this before he became the top dog of the Nation right? You can’t tell me joke biden and Corn Pop never talked about how they would stop mass shootings. Why hasn’t joke done anything yet!
 
@joevegas
Then explain why these shootings take place in schools, churches, malls?
Who are YOU trying to chit?

They are cowards and attack children for Christ's sake.....wtfu!!!
 
The main push is to ban sales not confiscate. even if they wanted that's not going to happen period and they know it. so saying they're going to kick your door down and try to take it simply isn't in line with the facts.
We will be required to demonstrate financial responsibility as well. Taxes and insurance will fix everything. (n)

And am I the only one who thinks conscription was a major factor in defining the age of adulthood?:rolleyes:
 
There isn't any way to stop mass shootings, nobody has a way to do that the goal is to reduce the frequency and the number of dead when they do happen. if you have to prevent 100% of the deaths or it's a failure then everything is a failure by that measure. but trying is the first step to failure right ?

Biden doesn't have the answers either but he's willing to try. you're not willing to do anything so don't just obstruct and snivel and consider yourself Einstein.

The fact is Trump is a gun free zone. don't try to bury that with BS.

If the term assault doesn't get it for you we'll use Rambo gun that works for everyone and you can follow the conversation.
 
Bobcat does that mean I can have my grenade launcher and missiles? why is there a law I can't using your logic ? or should I say lack thereof.
 
There isn't any way to stop mass shootings, nobody has a way to do that the goal is to reduce the frequency and the number of dead when they do happen. if you have to prevent 100% of the deaths or it's a failure then everything is a failure by that measure. but trying is the first step to failure right ?

Biden doesn't have the answers either but he's willing to try. you're not willing to do anything so don't just obstruct and snivel and consider yourself Einstein.

The fact is Trump is a gun free zone. don't try to bury that with BS.

If the term assault doesn't get it for you we'll use Rambo gun that works for everyone and you can follow the conversation.
“You’re not willing to do anything”

Oh really, when I was employed I coordinated and taught Active Shooter classes to Local, County and State Law Enforcement Agencies. The first of its kind in this State. I have volunteered my services in retirement to Local and County Law Enforcement agencies. I carry weapons daily in hope I never need them.

What have you done?

You see it’s not what you don’t know that gets you in trouble, it’s what you know for certain that’s just not true.
 
Tog, I know you hate Trump and thats fine but he did ban bump stocks after the Vegas shooting.

Background checks are currently failing, we need to integrate better data (including mental health data) into this system. There has to be some nuance to this, and that would be the hard part. I think a police officer in every school is a bit of bandaid on the situation.
 
There isn't any way to stop mass shootings, nobody has a way to do that the goal is to reduce the frequency and the number of dead when they do happen. if you have to prevent 100% of the deaths or it's a failure then everything is a failure by that measure. but trying is the first step to failure right ?

Biden doesn't have the answers either but he's willing to try. you're not willing to do anything so don't just obstruct and snivel and consider yourself Einstein.

The fact is Trump is a gun free zone. don't try to bury that with BS.

If the term assault doesn't get it for you we'll use Rambo gun that works for everyone and you can follow the conversation.
“There isn’t a way to stop mass shootings,”

FBI Statistics prove you wrong. Since 2014 citizens carrying guns (good guys) have stopped active shooters over 20 times.

It’s so easy to prove every post of yours is wrong, all one has to do is have a little common sense.
 
Too many snowflakes these days. They care only about themselves and are too insecure to hear both sides of any story for fear this may jeopardize confidence in their own, self-imposed positions. They come from the far-left and they come from the far-right. They claim to understand information known only to a privileged few and disdain "mainstream" (common) knowledge in favor of conspiracy. Their paranoia leads them to frequent the sorts of sites that put forth photos such as the one posted by Wetmule purporting to show the perpetrator. Good decisions depend on good information.
 
“There isn’t a way to stop mass shootings,”

FBI Statistics prove you wrong. Since 2014 citizens carrying guns (good guys) have stopped active shooters over 20 times.

It’s so easy to prove every post of yours is wrong, all one has to do is have a little common sense.
The Aurora Theater shooter was thwarted when his AR-15s drum magazine jammed. That hardly means that is an effective way to stop active shooters.

There have been 212 mass shootings (defined as four people being wounded or killed, not including the shooter, in one incident) so far in the USA this year.

There have been 27 school shootings so far this year. The 20 "good guys with a gun" number sounds good, but it isn't even a rounding error in the number of mass shootings that have taken place in our country in the last decade.
 
Ok I have a question
Give me one instance where ANY gun has walked into any circumstance and committed a mass shooting on its own?
Dare ya!
I think we can all agree that it's the person that pulls the trigger.

I have a question that I don't know the answer of and maybe somebody here does...

How many of these mass shooters obtained their weapon illegally?

It seems I keep hearing the guns were legally acquired and/or the shooter wasn't otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearms. Is that correct?
 
I think we can all agree that it's the person that pulls the trigger.

I have a question that I don't know the answer of and maybe somebody here does...

How many of these mass shooters obtained their weapon illegally?

It seems I keep hearing the guns were legally acquired and/or the shooter wasn't otherwise prohibited from possessing the firearms. Is that correct?
In this case yes, he purchased two "long guns on his 18th birthday.

Apparently his grandmother knew of his intentions.....
 
I'd like to know the time frames of when he purchased them, made the social media posts about his intentions of shooting up a school, shot his grandmother then went to the school.

Certainly seems like SOMEONE saw red flags??
 
What difference does it make?
GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE!!!
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!!
All you Brandon folks need to pound that into your thick heads!
WE all HAVE to address the REAL problem!!!
If I hear what you’re saying, I agree that we should try to keep guns out of the hands of people who would use them to kill people.
 
What difference does it make?
GUNS DONT KILL PEOPLE!!!
PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE!!!
All you Brandon folks need to pound that into your thick heads!
WE all HAVE to address the REAL problem!!!
Figuring out if current background checks are effectively identifying potential murderers IS the problem.

If shooters are obtaining the guns illegally then it's possible that current laws are adequate, just inadequately enforced.

If our current laws are allowing murderers and insane people to walk into their local sporting goods store, pass the background checks, and head to the local elementary school to slaughter children... then we have an entirely different problem altogether.
 
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In this case yes, he purchased two "long guns on his 18th birthday.

Apparently his grandmother knew of his intentions.....
Right. I don't remember the last time a mass shooter obtained the guns illegally. It seems they're always legally purchased.

How does anybody intend to look to mental illness while in the next breath admitting that none of these people were prohibited from owning guns due to mental illness?

Does anybody want to give a counselor or psychologist the right to take away another person's hunting rifle? I can imagine literally dozens of ways that would be abused.
 
Right. I don't remember the last time a mass shooter obtained the guns illegally. It seems they're always legally purchased.

How does anybody intend to look to mental illness while in the next breath admitting that none of these people were prohibited from owning guns due to mental illness?
I don't know, but something is definitely broken right there.
 
Right. I don't remember the last time a mass shooter obtained the guns illegally. It seems they're always legally purchased.

How does anybody intend to look to mental illness while in the next breath admitting that none of these people were prohibited from owning guns due to mental illness?
The only thing I can think of that might help is a waiting period if buying an "assault weapon" as the media refers to them. Not a day or two, maybe a 30 day period for anyone. We have no issues waiting a year or longer for a suppressor, a waiting period for an AR type weapon should not be a big deal. I think 21 should be legal age to purchase an AR type weapon anyways. And yes I realize they can join the military at 18.
Not sure if it will make a difference, but it could allow someone to possibly change their mind. In this case, at least school would have been on summer break by the time he picked up his purchases.
Who knows what could stop anyone with the intent to cause mayhem. Buzz may be right.
 
Right. I don't remember the last time a mass shooter obtained the guns illegally. It seems they're always legally purchased.

How does anybody intend to look to mental illness while in the next breath admitting that none of these people were prohibited from owning guns due to mental illness?

Does anybody want to give a counselor or psychologist the right to take away another person's hunting rifle? I can imagine literally dozens of ways that would be abused.
I think a lot of us are looking at it as needing a better way to better prevent and address mental illness, not JUST prevent those with issues from getting guns. Address the root cause, not just the end results.
 
The only thing I can think of that might help is a waiting period if buying an "assault weapon" as the media refers to them. Not a day or two, maybe a 30 day period for anyone. We have no issues waiting a year or longer for a suppressor, a waiting period for an AR type weapon should not be a big deal. I think 21 should be legal age to purchase an AR type weapon anyways. And yes I realize they can join the military at 18.
Not sure if it will make a difference, but it could allow someone to possibly change their mind. In this case, at least school would have been on summer break by the time he picked up his purchases.
Who knows what could stop anyone with the intent to cause mayhem. Buzz may be right.
Your reply seems to be similar to my post #125 where I said that maybe AR-15s should require an NFA Stamp.
 
Figuring out if current background checks are effectively identifying potential murderers IS the problem.

If shooters are obtaining the guns illegally then it's possible that current laws are adequate, just inadequately enforced.

If our current laws are allowing murderers and insane people to walk into their local sporting goods store, pass the background checks, and head to the local elementary school to slaughter children... then we have an entirely different problem altogether.

It's apparent you're more comfortable trying to label others under a title you think you understand. That's your issue to deal with, but it's certainly not helpful to anybody. Least of all, yourself.
Ok so why doesn’t any body want to address the real issue?
They just want to blame it on guns?
Sensible people should know better!!!
 
I see there being two trains of thought. Either no government reach, or a fair bit of it. Laws will never do crap. I’m sorry but everyone has broken them. Wether you speed, do drugs or own an illegals firearm. Everyone has most likely done something illegal.

I think barrack Obama and no joe Biden will probably be the best ar 15 sales people in the world. My guess is the ar15 wouldn’t be such a huge component if the left didn’t make them the mass shooter glory gun. Did that d bag that shot the school up. look like he knew the difference between an ar15 and his ass? Half of these dipshits don’t. But when the media does it’s thing it puts un deserving glory on a gun. That in my opinion is part of the problem.

The bottem line to me is why do we focus so much on the gun. Or if the douche was white? Who cares I’m just glad this guy is dead.
 
I'm not opposed (at this moment) for some type of additional "stamp" for an AR type of rifle.

But.....the ONLY thing that makes it function any different than say a BAR, is the magazine.

Do I need a "stamp" for any and all semi-autos then?
 
I don't know if this is true or not, just what I heard. The shooter and his mom were living with the mom's mother, grandma. Grandma was in the process of evicting her own daughter, and the kid shot grandma. If true it could just be a case of anger and not mentally ill. Who knows what kind of hell that poor kid was going through his whole life?
 
Ok so why doesn’t any body want to address the real issue?
They just want to blame it on guns?
Sensible people should know better!!!
There was a time when people of questionable mental stability were institutionalized. We don't do that anymore. I don't have the answer as to how we really weed out the dangerous from the eccentric in a lot of circumstances. Even people suffering from schizophrenia aren't often violent... it just gets gray so fast.

But can you imagine how fast things would go bad if a marriage counselor could file a report and the cops showed up and seized your guns? That doesn't really work either, yet that's what could happen with a Red Flag Law.


I'm not opposed (at this moment) for some type of additional "stamp" for an AR type of rifle.

But.....the ONLY thing that makes it function any different than say a BAR, is the magazine.

Do I need a "stamp" for any and all semi-autos then?
Totally fair point. What's the mechanical difference in an AR-15 and a Ruger 10/22?

They're both semiautomatic rifles with a detachable magazine that shoot a .22 caliber bullet.

I've never claimed to hand the answers. I just know what we're doing isn't working and children are dying. I'm not okay with that.
 
I’ll say it again. There is not a single law, regulation or restriction that would have prevented this. You guys continue to ignore the fact that the guns are already out there ( how many million in the country?) and you guys are still talking about regulations us law abiding citizens will follow? I don’t get how any one can’t see this
 
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How does anybody intend to look to mental illness while in the next breath admitting that none of these people were prohibited from owning guns due to mental illness?

Does anybody want to give a counselor or psychologist the right to take away another person's hunting rifle? I can imagine literally dozens of ways that would be abused.

So this answer might not be practical and I realize it is an administrative burden but just a thought and probably not fool proof.

Incorporate Juvenile records into the background check process.

If the police are called on you for mental health check, or domestic dispute or something violent. Incorporate it in the system by putting a flag on them. Not saying the person can't buy the gun but at least have the police follow up. Even if charges aren't filed.

Same thing with psychologist, let then at least have the ability to notify local police that hey this person isn't well. Let their be a flag and so at least police can interview the buyer and make a judgment call.

I know this could be abused, and I can't stand red flag laws, but where these are professionals (police and doctors) I think they would have better judgement.

The phrase, this individual was known to police or the FBI but he didn't break any crimes" is beyond fustrating and we need to be able to account for that.
 
And you guys thinking the background check system will make a difference? It already doesn’t. Last pistol I bought from an ffl for example. When I buy a gun I always get kicked to the longer background check. Whatever it is, som guy with my same name I guess but I never get it in the 30 minute one or whatever. That being said, by law NICS had 3 days to process the background check then after that the ffl can release the fire arm wether it’s back or not. Last one for me they never got to because of the massive back log of everyone buying fire arms. ffl told me come pick up your gun it’s been 3 days. Think that’s going to get better or more competent with massive expansion? You’re talking about a government that can’t run its own post office…
 
Apparently the first 911 call was at 11:30 am. Then apparently Ramos wasn’t shot down till after 1pm. I read a report saying people were yelling at the cops to go in the school and get the shooter but they dragged their feet. Wtf?

Seems fucky.

Also Ramos’ arsenal he had just purchased was apparently worth $5000 not counting the body armor. Pretty rich for an 18 year old from a poor family. Where’d tf did he get that money?

Again, seems fucky

Also apparently Ramos had been prescribed and using ssri antidepressants just like the sandy hook shooter as well as other mass shooters. Mental illness...

Seems fucky

Lots of issues at play besides tired ass old red vs blue gun control finger pointing
 
The Aurora Theater shooter was thwarted when his AR-15s drum magazine jammed. That hardly means that is an effective way to stop active shooters.

There have been 212 mass shootings (defined as four people being wounded or killed, not including the shooter, in one incident) so far in the USA this year.

There have been 27 school shootings so far this year. The 20 "good guys with a gun" number sounds good, but it isn't even a rounding error in the number of mass shootings that have taken place in our country in the last decade.
You’re right it doesn’t matter unless it was your life saved by a good guy with a gun.
 
You’re right it doesn’t matter unless it was your life saved by a good guy with a gun.
If you'd like to compare the numbers of lives saved by the 20 cases you referenced from the FBI in the last eight years with the literally hundreds and hundreds of deaths where there wasn't a "good guy with a gun" I'm happy to have that discussion.

You're picking a literal statistical anomaly and trying to use it as evidence that simply isn't supported by the facts. It's strange because you don't even dispute the facts. You're the one who cited 20 cases and you have to know there are literally hundreds of cases where there WASN'T a good guy with a gun.

I believe you to be a good and honest person, but the data simply doesn't support the argument you appear to be making. I feel you're looking for data to support your conclusion rather than looking at the data and then reaching a conclusion.
 
Right. I don't remember the last time a mass shooter obtained the guns illegally. It seems they're always legally purchased.

How does anybody intend to look to mental illness while in the next breath admitting that none of these people were prohibited from owning guns due to mental illness?

Does anybody want to give a counselor or psychologist the right to take away another person's hunting rifle? I can imagine literally dozens of ways that would be abused.
Mass shooters can be weekend gang violence in Chicago. You can’t tell me all those guns were purchased legally. FBI has the statistics on what you’re seeking.
 
If you'd like to compare the numbers of lives saved by the 20 cases you referenced from the FBI in the last eight years with the literally hundreds and hundreds of deaths where there wasn't a "good guy with a gun" I'm happy to have that discussion.

You're picking a literal statistical anomaly and trying to use it as evidence that simply isn't supported by the facts. It's strange because you don't even dispute the facts. You're the one who cited 20 cases and you have to know there are literally hundreds of cases where there WASN'T a good guy with a gun.

I believe you to be a good and honest person, but the data simply doesn't support the argument you appear to be making. I feel you're looking for data to support your conclusion rather than looking at the data and then reaching a conclusion.
Sir you bring up a malfunctioning magazine in a theatre and imply that I think it’s an effective way to stop a mass shooter. That’s a reach considering I never mentioned any of that incident in any of my previous comments.

I was initially replying to a poster who stated that Mass Shootings can not be stopped. I just gave 20 examples where they were stopped. There are many more also. I don’t know what’s so hard about that to understand. If somebody told me again that there is no way to stop a mass shooter and I provided them with just one name where a guy killed, thwarted the attempt or held at gun point for Police to arrive that would be considered Stopping a Mass Shooting. Wouldn’t it?
 
Correct. I don't think they are. That's why I asked the question.
Many legally purchased guns are later determined to be illegally purchased due to a straw purchase. Somebody else is buying the gun for somebody who is ineligible to buy or is buying multiple guns legally to resell on the black market.
 
obama and biden are the largest smugglers of illegal weapons this country has ever seen. Their Operation Fast and Furious knowingly allowed thousands of illegal assault weapons and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition to be smuggled across our border into Mexico. These people who used these smuggled weapons were responsible for killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. They were also responsible for killing Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata. Talking about Mass Murder, there you go! It’s laughable to hear joke biden speak about this current school tragedy knowing how he and obama swept the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious under the rug. Try to FOIA anything pertaining to that operation, good luck.
 
Think about This Just a Little!

These Convicted Felons They Keep Locking Up & Turning Loose!

What's The Very First Thing They Round Up After Getting Out of the Slammer?

Yup!

A Gun/Guns!

A Gun They Can NOT Legally Possess!

And They Didn't Walk Down To The Sports Store & Buy That Gun/Guns!

Yes!

We Already Have Laws Saying They Can't Own/Possess A/That Gun!

No Doubt a Great Law!

But How You Gonna Enforce It?

If What You're Telling Me Is True,This Ramos JOKER Legally Bought The Guns & Ammo He Wanted To Buy!

You Telling Me He Couldn't Have Bought it All on The Black Market?

Better Think On That One!

There Ain't a Law Anywhere That Woulda Changed This Incident!

Like Stated Above!

You're Gonna Blame The Guns Rather Than The THUGS/THIEVES/MURDERES/ETC?
 
I didn't say no teachers are competent, I said most aren't . so pretending otherwise is a joke.

At least let the bodies cool before you start attacking anyone who questions the status quo. the vast majority of Americans favor restrictions on assault weapons and hi cap mags so stop the fake outrage at the discussion of such.

Would more gun laws stop the problem ? no. would it help ? maybe. let's assume the news is true for the moment , this kid just bought these guns a week or so ago on his 18th birthday. the lame excuse is he would have killed anyway, maybe , maybe not and if he had killed would we have 18 bodies ? unlikely because he obviously couldn't wait to get them and try them out.

If you don't give a FF that's your right. but don't cat pile on the majority in this nation who are open to reducing the carnage. I'm saying Nothing Ronald Reagan didn't advocate so GFYS with the Brandon talk.


Funny. I'm missing your "outrage" when 20 kids a weekend get shot up in Chicago.

Guess MSNBC didn't tell you to be outraged about that huh?
 
Thanks for asking, I would ban crazy people and kids from owning firearms.

Lets face it, the only reason 18yo’s are allowed to own guns is so we don’t have to wrestle with the morality of sending them off to war.

100%
YUUUUUUPPPP!!!


I would love to see this point made. Especially as our elites are saber rattling war in Europe.
 
obama and biden are the largest smugglers of illegal weapons this country has ever seen. Their Operation Fast and Furious knowingly allowed thousands of illegal assault weapons and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition to be smuggled across our border into Mexico. These people who used these smuggled weapons were responsible for killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. They were also responsible for killing Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata. Talking about Mass Murder, there you go! It’s laughable to hear joke biden speak about this current school tragedy knowing how he and obama swept the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious under the rug. Try to FOIA anything pertaining to that operation, good luck.
There’s biden again. What is your point in bringing him up so frequently? Are you looking for HIS solutions, or blaming him? I’m honestly not sure.

I don’t believe Ive ever seen anyone here defend fast n furious. Like pretty much everyone else, I have serious issues with some of these “law enforcement” tactics.
 
There was a time when people of questionable mental stability were institutionalized. We don't do that anymore. I don't have the answer as to how we really weed out the dangerous from the eccentric in a lot of circumstances. Even people suffering from schizophrenia aren't often violent... it just gets gray so fast.

But can you imagine how fast things would go bad if a marriage counselor could file a report and the cops showed up and seized your guns? That doesn't really work either, yet that's what could happen with a Red Flag Law.



Totally fair point. What's the mechanical difference in an AR-15 and a Ruger 10/22?

They're both semiautomatic rifles with a detachable magazine that shoot a .22 caliber bullet.

I've never claimed to hand the answers. I just know what we're doing isn't working and children are dying. I'm not okay with that.


We are normalizing the abnormal and mental disorders in the mainstream. We no longer set norms for society. "My truth", pronouns, "non judgemental" have become common place. Combined with the dumpster fire that is social media, and we get what we have.

"Compassion" isn't about helping the mentally deranged. We can't stigmatize someone, it's societies job to accept them. That's the mantra of today. Much easier to blame a piece of plastic and metal, then to face the hard truth.

We have created a generation of extremely soft, extremely weak people, with poor moral compasses, and that are more and more, detached from reality.
 
And you guys thinking the background check system will make a difference? It already doesn’t. Last pistol I bought from an ffl for example. When I buy a gun I always get kicked to the longer background check. Whatever it is, som guy with my same name I guess but I never get it in the 30 minute one or whatever. That being said, by law NICS had 3 days to process the background check then after that the ffl can release the fire arm wether it’s back or not. Last one for me they never got to because of the massive back log of everyone buying fire arms. ffl told me come pick up your gun it’s been 3 days. Think that’s going to get better or more competent with massive expansion? You’re talking about a government that can’t run its own post office…
The last pistol I bought took something like 1:40. It was under 2 minutes. I can’t even properly introduce myself in 2 minutes. This was March I believe. The time before that was like 3 days. Weirdly random.

They’re reading your posts ;)
 
We are normalizing the abnormal and mental disorders in the mainstream. We no longer set norms for society. "My truth", pronouns, "non judgemental" have become common place. Combined with the dumpster fire that is social media, and we get what we have.

"Compassion" isn't about helping the mentally deranged. We can't stigmatize someone, it's societies job to accept them. That's the mantra of today. Much easier to blame a piece of plastic and metal, then to face the hard truth.

We have created a generation of extremely soft, extremely weak people, with poor moral compasses, and that are more and more, detached from reality.
Not a single mention of video games yet. If watching smoking makes you smoke, or watching homosexuals makes you gay (for those here:ROFLMAO:), why don’t video games make you violent?
 
You could save deer from getting killed by the AR-15 too if you outlawed it, but you wouldn't save many deer either. All you could do is prevent future sales anyway. There's too many out there.

If I had kids in school, I'd think seriously about pulling them out. It's not much about education anymore. It's all about grooming.
You are right. Johnny and Jill have to be woke, have white shame , support anything the Govt or Fauci say and accept every pronoun .
 
I don’t believe at all any more these are random acts. Theirs forces in this country that have agendas and don’t mind breaking a few eggs to see them happen. Call me a right wing conspiracy nut job all you want
Ok JP, please expound on your thoughts here. I'm not being a critic and I am interested in your feeling about this.
 
There’s biden again. What is your point in bringing him up so frequently? Are you looking for HIS solutions, or blaming him? I’m honestly not sure.

I don’t believe Ive ever seen anyone here defend fast n furious. Like pretty much everyone else, I have serious issues with some of these “law enforcement” tactics.
I’m taking a page out of the lefts book. This chaos happened on bidens watch, he has had 49 years to formulate a plan to prevent or even minimize mass murder and he’s done absolutely nothing! Why? Taste good doesn’t it, I’m only dishing out what the left does to the right every time, you know, never let a crisis go to waste. Pathetic isn’t it.

What tactics do you have serious issues with?
 
I’m taking a page out of the lefts book. This chaos happened on bidens watch, he has had 49 years to formulate a plan to prevent or even minimize mass murder and he’s done absolutely nothing! Why? Taste good doesn’t it, I’m only dishing out what the left does to the right every time, you know, never let a crisis go to waste. Pathetic isn’t it.

What tactics do you have serious issues with?
It’s a lame tactic when the left uses it and it doesn’t fool anyone.

Im talking about the illegal law enforcement tactics like illegal gun trafficking. The civil libertarians have a pretty comprehensive list.

After all the societal boogeymen destroyed this monsters mind, the response to this particular incident is beginning to look more and more like a failure of law enforcement.

So we want to throw our hands up in the air and slide the responsibility across the desk to a bunch of 20 something teachers. Pathetic.
 
Are you saying this school shooting in Texas was a Law Enforcement failure?
Law enforcement should have prevented the gun purchases, and plenty of criticism of the response is emerging. But I’ll wait to see what’s still to come.

Draw your own conclusions. Don’t you believe there are people in law enforcement who wish they had done more when they saw the signs? I do.
 
Law enforcement should have prevented the gun purchases, and plenty of criticism of the response is emerging. But I’ll wait to see what’s still to come.

Draw your own conclusions. Don’t you believe there are people in law enforcement who wish they had done more when they saw the signs? I do.
Thanks. I didn’t know he illegally purchased those guns.
 
obama and biden are the largest smugglers of illegal weapons this country has ever seen. Their Operation Fast and Furious knowingly allowed thousands of illegal assault weapons and hundreds of thousands of rounds of ammunition to be smuggled across our border into Mexico. These people who used these smuggled weapons were responsible for killing thousands of innocent men, women and children. They were also responsible for killing Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry and ICE Agent Jaime Zapata. Talking about Mass Murder, there you go! It’s laughable to hear joke biden speak about this current school tragedy knowing how he and obama swept the investigation of Operation Fast and Furious under the rug. Try to FOIA anything pertaining to that operation, good luck.
Any more red herring you want to drag into the Uvalde shooting? The shooter in this case obtained his firearms the easiest, quickest way possible...down at the local gun shop.

Excercising his second amendment rights, just like everyone else has.
 
Any more red herring you want to drag into the Uvalde shooting? The shooter in this case obtained his firearms the easiest, quickest way possible...down at the local gun shop.

Excercising his second amendment rights, just like everyone else has.
Reading comprehension is not a strong suit of yours. Go whine somewhere else.
 
Thanks. I didn’t know he illegally purchased those guns.
The background check was supposed to keep crazies from buying guns. Of course we all know it’s a dumb process.

And I believe his juvenile records should have been used to prevent the purchase.

We can argue all day about whether these are political failures or law enforcement failures. Many people look at this process as law enforcement.

I don’t know how I would have responded. I like to think with wisdom and courage. (y)
 

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