Antelope scoring

Jerkychaser

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I’m new into Antelope hunting, and trying to figure what everyone looks at when trying to judge an animal in the field. Is horn length the main factor? I will Be hunting Nevada in the future and had my first trip taking a look at some animals. Here is a picture of one of the bigger ones I saw. No clue if it’s considered a shooter or not? Thanks for any tips
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5.5 - 6 inch prongs, great mass underneath, looks a little lite on top, and length of about 13-14 but he still has 3 months of growing and I think he will easily be 15+ long by September when hes finished off.

I bet he's 78ish right now, and could be 82-84 when he's finished off.
 
Who's Hay Field Is He In?:D

He's Got Alot Of CURL Up On Top!

Wrap The Tape Around That CURL & I'll Guarantee His Length is Way Better Than It Looks Looking at Him Head On!

UNIQUE Beats a Buck With Horns That Go Straight Up Any-day & He's Got That!

Best Of Luck on Your Hunt & Hoping To See Some More Pics!
 
He is short, 13.5 in, maybe 14 but if that width is also round not flat he will break 80 possibly. Mass gets four measurements length is only one plus the prong. That prong is close to 6 because he is so wide.
 
MPH, Mass-Prong-Hook in that order is what you look for.

That goat is a lot longer than he looks because of the hook and the mass and prong are excellent .

That said, pictures can be very deceiving and we can only see one side in a fuzzy picture. before I'd attempt to put a score on him it would take more to look at.

I took a 82 2/8 B&C net goat in WY a few years ago late in the season that's only 13 7/8 long . I'm sure he got passed up buy other guys putting too much emphasis on length. mass and prong come first.
 
5.5 - 6 inch prongs, great mass underneath, looks a little lite on top, and length of about 13-14 but he still has 3 months of growing and I think he will easily be 15+ long by September when hes finished off.

I bet he's 78ish right now, and could be 82-84 when he's finished off.
Thank you for the response. What would you say an 80” Antelopes equivalent in a mule deer score is? Sorry if it’s a Weird question , but that will help me quantify what I’m looking at.
 
MPH, Mass-Prong-Hook in that order is what you look for.

That goat is a lot longer than he looks because of the hook and the mass and prong are excellent .

That said, pictures can be very deceiving and we can only see one side in a fuzzy picture. before I'd attempt to put a score on him it would take more to look at.

I took a 82 2/8 B&C net goat in WY a few years ago late in the season that's only 13 7/8 long . I'm sure he got passed up buy other guys putting too much emphasis on length. mass and prong come first.
Thank you! Send a pic if you have one!!

Yeah my phone scope didn’t work, and he wouldn’t stop walking, it was a bad combo to try and get a clear picture
 
Thank you for the response. What would you say an 80” Antelopes equivalent in a mule deer score is? Sorry if it’s a Weird question , but that will help me quantify what I’m looking at.
IMO an 80" antelope's mule deer equivalent is a 180" deer. The buck that you shared has great mass, and mass is king. I personally would not give him a pass. Hard to tell from the picture but I'm guessing him right at 82" right now. I'd like to call that a "bang flop" buck, no doubt!
 
I am not good at judging Antelope at all. What I’ve understood to look for is the base of the horns in relation to the eyes. If that base is too or past the front of his eyes he’s got the mass then look at diggers and horn length. But again, I couldn’t put a number to one accurately
 
I am not good at judging Antelope at all. What I’ve understood to look for is the base of the horns in relation to the eyes. If that base is too or past the front of his eyes he’s got the mass then look at diggers and horn length. But again, I couldn’t put a number to one accurately
What's a digger?:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
Nope, they still put on length from the bottom up through July and are done around August 1st.

It won't look like much but they do get longer, and heavier.
And you know this how? I definitely have never scene enough growth on a buck in Wyoming after the first of June to notice the difference.

And yes, I have seen what Grimmett says.
 
You've never herd the prongs called diggers?

Pretty common term for them where I'm from.
i guess ive never heard them called anything else so were from around the same area. i suppose prongs makes sense but they've always been diggers to me
 
All I know is I watched allot of bucks in allot of different areas from June all the way up till season and ground checked them and they didn't change much from mid June to August-sep
 
IMO an 80" antelope's mule deer equivalent is a 180" deer. The buck that you shared has great mass, and mass is king. I personally would not give him a pass. Hard to tell from the picture but I'm guessing him right at 82" right now. I'd like to call that a "bang flop" buck, no doubt!
Thank you! That helps put it in perspective for me, definitely not a person to pass up that quality of a buck.
 
And you know this how? I definitely have never scene enough growth on a buck in Wyoming after the first of June to notice the difference.

And yes, I have seen what Grimmett says.
This is what I have for you. I personally took these pictures last year, and the dates are accurate. I would say he put on about an inch of length under his prongs in the month between photos
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I may have overstated in my initial post on the buck with saying 2 inches but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
 
This is what I have for you. I personally took these pictures last year, and the dates are accurate. I would say he put on about an inch of length under his prongs in the month between photosView attachment 77831

I may have overstated in my initial post on the buck with saying 2 inches but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Most of what you're seeing there in my opinion is the long hair at the base shortening up Into a summer coat and giving it the appearance of more length I'm sure they do grow some but not very much at all around here anyway
 
This is what I have for you. I personally took these pictures last year, and the dates are accurate. I would say he put on about an inch of length under his prongs in the month between photosView attachment 77831

I may have overstated in my initial post on the buck with saying 2 inches but it's not out of the realm of possibility.
Did ya kill that goat ?
 
Most of what you're seeing there in my opinion is the long hair at the base shortening up Into a summer coat and giving it the appearance of more length I'm sure they do grow some but not very much at all around here anyway
?‍♂️ I disagree, but what do I know.

Can't do much better than that for providing evidence.

All I know is I watched allot of bucks in allot of different areas from June all the way up till season and ground checked them and they didn't change much from mid June to August-sep
Not sure how you are ground checking them in June to prove they are the same as what they was when you killed them. Lol
 
Did ya kill that goat ?
Pretty sure someone did, he disappeared while I was away hunting elk in Arizona which is the same time as rifle season. I hunted him in 2020 with my bow but couldn't get him to leave his private hang out during season. Then I started getting harassed by the land owner for trying to lure him out with decoys. Gave up on him after that.

Never have found out who killed him.
 
If you say so. Looks like he put on some length to me. But pretty hard to compare them from either of your examples. (That's a tank by the way congrats)

And I'm sure it's subjective from one goat to another.

Either way it doesn't really matter, we may just have to agree to disagree.
Agreed. You're correct there's no way to know for absolute certain is just opinion In the end
 
This is what I have for you. I personally took these pictures last year, and the dates are accurate. I would say he put on about an inch of length under his prongs in the month between photos
I'll stand by what I said about Wyoming considering your peer reviewed scientific dated pictures. I have never seen an inch of growth from June to July here.

I followed this buck throughout the summer. He was done growing by the first week in June.
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IMO an 80" antelope's mule deer equivalent is a 180" deer. The buck that you shared has great mass, and mass is king. I personally would not give him a pass. Hard to tell from the picture but I'm guessing him right at 82" right now. I'd like to call that a "bang flop" buck, no doubt!
Know that the difference between an 80" antelope and the world record is 16 inches. That's 8" per side or about 1.3" on each of the 6 measurements. That's not very much when you're trying to estimate on the hoof. The easiest measurements to field judge are length and prong, but mass is the most important. My take is if you like him shoot him.
 
Bear in mind, length can mess up a mass (circumference) measurement. These measurements come from distances spaced out over the length. If you have cutters relatively low on the main horn and long hooks, you can very well lose a crucial mass measurement.

Post #11 talks about this as well.

I would not put this buck above 80".
 
Antelope are cool, and a mature buck with character is a trophy regardless of their score, my opinion.
Some hook heart shape classic some with big cutters some big tall and heavy and then there are those funky ones that probably don’t score but score highest in my book, but haven’t killed one yet.
 
Bear in mind, length can mess up a mass (circumference) measurement. These measurements come from distances spaced out over the length. If you have cutters relatively low on the main horn and long hooks, you can very well lose a crucial mass measurement.

Post #11 talks about this as well.

I would not put this buck above 80".
Not correct, B & C requires at least one quarter measurement below the slope of the prong.
 
Not correct, B & C requires at least one quarter measurement below the slope of the prong.
Yes, a base and two quarters are possible, but extremely rare.

So which is it, at least one quarter below the slope of the prong or a base and two quarters below the prong?

Per the score sheet instructions B&C Score Sheet - Pronghorn

"D‑2‑3‑4. Divide measurement C of longer horn by four. Starting at base, mark both horns at these quarters (even though the other horn is shorter) and measure circumferences at these marks. If the prong interferes with D‑2, move the measurement down to just below the swelling of the prong. If D‑3 falls in the swelling of the prong, move the measurement up to just above the prong."

So, depending on the length of the horns and the configuration of the prong relative to that length and the spacing of the "D-n" measurements, you can very well lose a critical mass measurement. A circumference at the base of the prong is normally larger than above it...
 
So which is it, at least one quarter below the slope of the prong or a base and two quarters below the prong?

Per the score sheet instructions B&C Score Sheet - Pronghorn

"D‑2‑3‑4. Divide measurement C of longer horn by four. Starting at base, mark both horns at these quarters (even though the other horn is shorter) and measure circumferences at these marks. If the prong interferes with D‑2, move the measurement down to just below the swelling of the prong. If D‑3 falls in the swelling of the prong, move the measurement up to just above the prong."

So, depending on the length of the horns and the configuration of the prong relative to that length and the spacing of the "D-n" measurements, you can very well lose a critical mass measurement. A circumference at the base of the prong is normally larger than above it...
You are not losing a measurement, In 99% of antelope you will get 2 measurement below the prong and two measurements above, you will always have 4 measurement.

I believe p&y allows for 3 measurements under the prong in the weird instance that the 1/4s line up with 3 of them clearly below the prong. I think B&C requires 2 above and 2 below.

Is all that rule is saying is you can't use the prong as part of your mass measurement so if the 2nd 1/4 lines up with the prong you take the measurement below where the prong starts protruding off of the beam. If the 3rd 1/4 lines up with the prong tou take the measurement just above the prong.

Either way you do not lose a measurement, you always get 4 per horn.

That said this buck will easily have 2 under and 2 above.
 
Bear in mind, length can mess up a mass (circumference) measurement. These measurements come from distances spaced out over the length. If you have cutters relatively low on the main horn and long hooks, you can very well lose a crucial mass measurement.

Post #11 talks about this as well.

I would not put this buck above 80".
Yep a miss placed prong can ruin a score ! This one is 17.5 and missed B&C by a whisker , 7 inch deduction :cry:
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P&Y requires the D3 be taken above the prong always. I believe SCI allows you to move the D3 below the prong if it falls below halfway on the prong or something, but I'm not sure I never care what they do at game farms.

Jake is correct getting a D3 to fall below the prong would be extremely rare and the billy in the picture would definitely not be one.
 
B&C allows D3 below the prong, but only if it actually falls below the swelling prong--which is very rare. If the D3 falls within the swelling for the prong, you move it above. But the D2 will always be below the prong (which is why if it falls within the swelling you move it to be right below the swelling).
 
So which is it, at least one quarter below the slope of the prong or a base and two quarters below the prong?


So, depending on the length of the horns and the configuration of the prong relative to that length and the spacing of the "D-n" measurements, you can very well lose a critical mass measurement. A circumference at the base of the prong is normally larger than above it...
No you can't lose the second mass measurement under the prong. At least I have never seen that in 40+ years scoring antelope. You always get at least the base and 1st quarter.

B&C allows the base measurement(not a quarter) and the first quarter(D2) under the prong, by the rules specified. The D3 is allowed under the prong only if it falls below the swelling of the prong.
The antelope pictured by the OP in this post gets a base and first quarter measurement, it is not compromised by a "low" prong even if the swelling is an inch above the base, because that would be the spot the 1st quarter is taken in that case.

By the way @Togwotee, SCI allows the mass measurement to be taken right at the quarter mark even if the mark is anywhere on the prong.
 
These are both Nevada antelope. First one is only 14 inches tall but goes over 81. Next is a 85 inch goat. In a game of inches separating a average goat to a great goat and just a few more and it’s a giant. I would just go have fun and if you see one tha makes smile so big you can eat a banana sideways then take it. And if it has ground shrinkage as far a score goes you will still be happy! I like unique ones over score.

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These are both Nevada antelope. First one is only 14 inches tall but goes over 81. Next is a 85 inch goat. In a game of inches separating a average goat to a great goat and just a few more and it’s a giant. I would just go have fun and if you see one tha makes smile so big you can eat a banana sideways then take it. And if it has ground shrinkage as far a score goes you will still be happy! I like unique ones over score.

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Those look great! And yes thats my plan, Anything will make me happy, but the goal is to target mature animals.
 
Those look great! And yes thats my plan, Anything will make me happy, but the goal is to target mature animals.
The nice thing with pronghorn is that they mature young. The biggest bucks tend to be 2-3 years old most places.
 
No you can't lose the second mass measurement under the prong. At least I have never seen that in 40+ years scoring antelope. You always get at least the base and 1st quarter.

B&C allows the base measurement(not a quarter) and the first quarter(D2) under the prong, by the rules specified. The D3 is allowed under the prong only if it falls below the swelling of the prong.
The antelope pictured by the OP in this post gets a base and first quarter measurement, it is not compromised by a "low" prong even if the swelling is an inch above the base, because that would be the spot the 1st quarter is taken in that case.

By the way @Togwotee, SCI allows the mass measurement to be taken right at the quarter mark even if the mark is anywhere on the prong.

Never said you could lose the second mass measurement under the prong. What I did say, is depending on where the prong falls on the horn (and where the quarter measurements fall based on the length of the horn) you can lose the 3rd mass measurement below the prong. An antelope that has prongs that sit low on the horn with longer tips above the prong is where this happens.

Someone earlier on said mass is everything. That only holds true as long as the bulk of the mass is focused along the length of the horn where these measurement take place, in this case of antelope, below the prong. Just because an antelope has a lot of mass below the prong doesn't necessarily mean you get to use all of it. This is why it's also important for a bighorn sheep to be full curl and "broomed off" and not have it's "lamb tips" anymore.

One year, a young outfitter (he's been mentioned before here on MM) brought in an antelope that a client shot with archery tackle to an acquaintance's shop. The hunter was ecstatic because the outfitter told him he'd shot a 90" buck. The problem was, the 8" mass measurements were all crowded into the bottom 1/3 of the horn length below the prong because the outfitter just knew you get 3 mass measurements below the prong. Not true. The other two measurements based on the instructions of the score sheet actually put the buck in the high 70's.

The link I attached to the B&C score sheet is pretty self explanatory how all this happens. There is no guarantee you take a mass measurement just below the swelling of the prong. You only get to do that if a quarter measurement falls on the prong based on the length of the longest horn applied to both, and it only applies to "D-2" and "D-3"...
 
You are not losing a measurement, In 99% of antelope you will get 2 measurement below the prong and two measurements above, you will always have 4 measurement.

I believe p&y allows for 3 measurements under the prong in the weird instance that the 1/4s line up with 3 of them clearly below the prong. I think B&C requires 2 above and 2 below.

Is all that rule is saying is you can't use the prong as part of your mass measurement so if the 2nd 1/4 lines up with the prong you take the measurement below where the prong starts protruding off of the beam. If the 3rd 1/4 lines up with the prong tou take the measurement just above the prong.

Either way you do not lose a measurement, you always get 4 per horn.

That said this buck will easily have 2 under and 2 above.

I'll refer you to my response to jm77 - never said you could lose the 2nd mass measurement below the prong. I've said all along that depending on the length of the horn, it will determine if you get to take a 3rd mass measurement below the prong.

I've seen two dead antelope I've put my hands on that have done this. One had 17-1/2" length horns with higher prongs and the other looked like a fork-horn deer but only was around 14" in length.
 
According to the enclosed B&C article approximately 49% of an antelope buck's score is from mass. 38% is from length. One consideration with length is that there are only 2 additional pts added to the score for each additional inch of length. A 15" buck in Wyo is a great buck and 16" buck is exceptional. Prongs are approximately 13% of the total score. Again, an additional 1" of prongs is only 2 additional pts to a score.

If a buck has 1" more mass on each of his 4 mass measurements that's an amazing 8 additional points added to the score. You can quickly understand why accurately field judging mass is so important! Do you think you can distinguish a buck with 6 1/2" vs 7" bases from a 1/2 mile away....especially through heat waves and poor glass?

One thing for sure is mass is king on horned game scores. It generally takes everything for an antelope buck to score well, however, if one area is lacking (especially length or prongs) it sometimes can be made up somewhere elsewhere. Weak mass is almost impossible to make up elsewhere in a score.

The exciting thing about pronghorn is every buck is unique and generally different. It usually takes time, good glass, and experience to field judge bucks well.

Here's a decent article that can get you started:

 
If SCI lets you take the D3 wherever it falls that makes sense. I scored a pronghorn last year for a guy who's outfitter told him it would make book easy and he was pretty put out when it missed B&C , I found out later he went score shopping with it because he couldn't believe it .

Most outfitters use SCI for everything because it makes clients feel better, they need to tell them get SCI scored so they don't get bad news.
 
If SCI lets you take the D3 wherever it falls that makes sense. I scored a pronghorn last year for a guy who's outfitter told him it would make book easy and he was pretty put out when it missed B&C , I found out later he went score shopping with it because he couldn't believe it .

Most outfitters use SCI for everything because it makes clients feel better, they need to tell them get SCI scored so they don't get bad news.
Unbelievable that it could be that important to anyone....
 
Bear in mind, length can mess up a mass (circumference) measurement. These measurements come from distances spaced out over the length. If you have cutters relatively low on the main horn and long hooks, you can very well lose a crucial mass measurement.

Post #11 talks about this as well.

I would not put this buck above 80".
So which is it, at least one quarter below the slope of the prong or a base and two quarters below the prong?

Per the score sheet instructions B&C Score Sheet - Pronghorn

"D‑2‑3‑4. Divide measurement C of longer horn by four. Starting at base, mark both horns at these quarters (even though the other horn is shorter) and measure circumferences at these marks. If the prong interferes with D‑2, move the measurement down to just below the swelling of the prong. If D‑3 falls in the swelling of the prong, move the measurement up to just above the prong."

So, depending on the length of the horns and the configuration of the prong relative to that length and the spacing of the "D-n" measurements, you can very well lose a critical mass measurement. A circumference at the base of the prong is normally larger than above it...
You said: "Never said you could lose the second mass measurement under the prong. What I did say, is depending on where the prong falls on the horn (and where the quarter measurements fall based on the length of the horn) you can lose the 3rd mass measurement below the prong"

What's funny about all this, is that you never mentioned losing a third measurement below the prong, you said "critical mass measurement" or "crucial". Anyone with any kind of experience judging and scoring pronghorn understand three mass measurements below the prong are very rare. So rare in fact, I would go as far to say, most all hunters judge an antelope based on two mass measurements below the prong unless it's blatantly obvious there might be three.
 
I'll refer you to my response to jm77 - never said you could lose the 2nd mass measurement below the prong. I've said all along that depending on the length of the horn, it will determine if you get to take a 3rd mass measurement below the prong.

I've seen two dead antelope I've put my hands on that have done this. One had 17-1/2" length horns with higher prongs and the other looked like a fork-horn deer but only was around 14" in length.
And like I said in the post you quoted, it's extremely rare to get a 3rd measurement below the prong.

But when you say "lose a crucial mass measurement" forgive me for thinking you ment lose it all together.

Either way a 3rd measurement Below the prong is rare and the buck in question isn't a candidate for it.
 
I'm not sure this will make anyone feel better, but thought I would chime in.

I've only harvested 1 buck in a lifetime of antelope hunting that had D-3 fall below the swelling of the prong. It actually was a fairly impressive looking buck with super short prongs way up high on the horns. The prong was so small there was very little swelling. He would have scored well if the D3 was measured below the prong (P&Y or SCI). He actually is one of the smallest bucks I have ever harvested (B&C score-wise). I would be somewhat embarrassed saying he scored as well as it did if D3 was measured below the prong. Plain and simple, just looking at it, the horns don't reflect the P&Y/SCI scores but the B&C score looks spot-on to me.

I myself like the idea of 2 measurements above and 2 below the prong....but that's just me. There are some bucks that score extremely well P&Y/SCI but don't even come close to the same B&C score. I find it a little weird that B&C and P&Y aren't consistent? I'm pretty sure antelope are one of the few species with this separation? I don't think many get too terribly excited about SCI for North American species?
 
And like I said in the post you quoted, it's extremely rare to get a 3rd measurement below the prong.

But when you say "lose a crucial mass measurement" forgive me for thinking you meant lose it all together.

Either way a 3rd measurement Below the prong is rare and the buck in question isn't a candidate for it.

I can see how it would be easy to interpret it that way.

My point was supposed to be that just because there is so much mass below the prong, it may not matter if the tops are long pushing D3 out further toward the tip making you lose out on a mass measurement.

But as mentioned by jims, length is just length, wheras mass (circumference) is that same "length", aka. diameter and muliplied by pi.
 
I have to say the D3 measurement rule is about the only deviation I've seen with P&Y and B&C. it is odd they've done this but it makes sense in my opinion. I'm not P&Y certified though so maybe there's more I'm unaware of.

SCI is all about making the Johnson seem bigger. like doubling the palm measurements on a moose, WTF ? why? but about anyone can enter something in the book even if it's meaningless and some people like that. and of course that something can be from a game ranch, zoo or out of a corral who cares. so that's why real hunters don't get excited about SCI I'd say.

B&C is the gold standard for good reason. and while they do have some standards that are arguably unfair to the animal as most know the B&C scoring system was never designed for hunters it was for recording the species.
 
You said: "Never said you could lose the second mass measurement under the prong. What I did say, is depending on where the prong falls on the horn (and where the quarter measurements fall based on the length of the horn) you can lose the 3rd mass measurement below the prong"

What's funny about all this, is that you never mentioned losing a third measurement below the prong, you said "critical mass measurement" or "crucial". Anyone with any kind of experience judging and scoring pronghorn understand three mass measurements below the prong are very rare. So rare in fact, I would go as far to say, most all hunters judge an antelope based on two mass measurements below the prong unless it's blatantly obvious there might be three.

This is what I really said:

Bear in mind, length can mess up a mass (circumference) measurement. These measurements come from distances spaced out over the length. If you have cutters relatively low on the main horn and long hooks, you can very well lose a crucial mass measurement.

The higher up the horn D3 is, the lower the score can be. Any mass measurement as close to the prong (below or above) adds inches.
 
This is what I really said:



The higher up the horn D3 is, the lower the score can be. Any mass measurement as close to the prong (below or above) adds inches.
Oh, I'm sorry, I read:

" What I did say, is depending on where the prong falls on the horn (and where the quarter measurements fall based on the length of the horn) you can lose the 3rd mass measurement below the prong"

I guess, that's not what you really said. ?‍♂️

Really, it's my dumba$$ fault for engaging you. I should have learned that lesson by now.
 
Oh, I'm sorry, I read:

" What I did say, is depending on where the prong falls on the horn (and where the quarter measurements fall based on the length of the horn) you can lose the 3rd mass measurement below the prong"

I guess, that's not what you really said. ?‍♂️

Really, it's my dumba$$ fault for engaging you. I should have learned that lesson by now.

The only dumbass thing you did was to read more into something that wasn't really there.

I guess my choice of words "crucial" and "critical" threw you off since the difference between a book buck and not is literally 1".

A guy with 40 years of taping 'lope horns would know that...
 
The only dumbass thing you did was to read more into something that wasn't really there.

I guess my choice of words "crucial" and "critical" threw you off since the difference between a book buck and not is literally 1".

A guy with 40 years of taping 'lope horns would know that...
"you can lose the 3rd mass measurement below the prong"

Read that for the third time since you wrote it.

Actually, the difference between a book buck and not is literally 1/8", but I get the deficiency.
 
Ha don’t know why I had 16’s on my mind it is 1/8’s has jm77 said but what I’m not sure of is would they round up or down if it’s i between as such ? Say your close to world record and it’s that close like 15/16’s of an inch would that go up to the next inch or down to 7/8’s ? I know a panel scores so I assume they just agree on one or the other ?
 
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Ha don’t know why I had 16’s on my mind it is 1/8’s has jm77 said but what I’m not sure of is would they round up or down if it’s i between as such ? Say your close to world record and it’s that close like 15/16’s of an inch would that go up to the next inch or down to 7/8’s ? I know a panel scores so I assume they just agree on one or the other ?
A full 16th is rounded up
 
I took this guy archery hunting in Nevada years ago. Never scored him either mostly because I didn't know how to measure his full curl. He completely comes around and almost touches one side. Sorry about the crappy picture it was before all the cell phones had good cameras. :)

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