Antelope area 92

LIK2HNT

LIK2HNT

Long Time Member
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Anyone been in 92 lately and willing to discuss how the herd is looking? Son graduated and I put him in for 92 thinking he should draw as long as others don’t start cashing in due to upcoming changes. He wanted to split his points with his sister and me to hunt area 90 where we hunted in the past. But I feel this would be his best opportunity for a trophy buck.
Thanks
Bill
 
LIK2HNT said:
Anyone been in 92 lately and willing to discuss how the herd is looking? Son graduated and I put him in for 92 thinking he should draw as long as others don’t start cashing in due to upcoming changes. He wanted to split his points with his sister and me to hunt area 90 where we hunted in the past. But I feel this would be his best opportunity for a trophy buck.
Thanks
Bill
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All those areas in that part of the state are looking good
 
Haha I changed my area at last minute after seeing a buck at work, odds are quite a bit worse than the original unit so I’ll take the blame lol but just give me the tag so I won’t have to see a therapist !! Guess if it don’t work out I’ll get a hold of heateater at app time next year , Info for free instead of paying epic, Eastmans huntin fool ect ?
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
Haha I changed my area at last minute after seeing a buck at work, odds are quite a bit worse than the original unit so I’ll take the blame lol but just give me the tag so I won’t have to see a therapist !! Guess if it don’t work out I’ll get a hold of heateater at app time next year , Info for free instead of paying epic, Eastmans huntin fool ect ?
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Any unit you can draw has booners everywhere didn't you pay attention to the pronghorn god?
 
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DoubleDropMuley said:
Yes, but I just like the modify process !! At 11:59 pm on deadline day , what a rush !!
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In think you can modify still after the deadline but hell yea might as well live life on the edge I changed my apps about 4 times before the deadline for most species
 
I’m hoping to become president of WSSUP!!
(WYOMING SPECIAL SUCKY UNIT PICKERS) For all species not just Antelope ! And yes not sure the modify is a good thing or not happens every year multiple times just like you mentioned lol
 
Maybe as president I can pull for the other 50% of nonres tags and try to counteract WYOGA and there 50%. Each member of WSSUP , will receive a yrs subscription to OnX, a 16’ camo ladder and the promise of more mule deer and pronghorn, well elk they don’t need any help!! Good luck in the draws bookhead ??
 
DoubleDropMuley said:
Maybe as president I can pull for the other 50% of nonres tags and try to counteract WYOGA and there 50%. Each member of WSSUP , will receive a yrs subscription to OnX, a 16’ camo ladder and the promise of more mule deer and pronghorn, well elk they don’t need any help!! Good luck in the draws bookhead ??
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I'd be a member I haven't drawn a tag under 50% odds in 8 years for any species in any state and its shaping up to be 9 so far!?
 
As far as thinking mild winter, spring moisture and so on helps with the head gear, I don't know. A few years back everything looked like we would have a banner year of horn growth. Turned out worse than most!

Moral: apply and if you draw, go hunting and have fun!
 
jm77 said:
As far as thinking mild winter, spring moisture and so on helps with the head gear, I don't know. A few years back everything looked like we would have a banner year of horn growth. Turned out worse than most!

Moral: apply and if you draw, go hunting and have fun!
Click to expand...
I'm also not a believer in wet years producing bigger antlers or horns. Mild winters obviously help fawn and calf numbers that's all I'm convinced of
 
I definitely don't have nearly as much experience as jm77 and others who have lived around pronghorn for a long time.
*Off subject, but it seems like a lot of bull elk over in this country (red desert) grow a weak 5th and 6th tine on dry years and seem to finish stronger on years with a wet spring.
 
Deer and elk headgear are different than antelope. I’ve shot a couple of my highest scoring B&C antelope bucks in historic drought years.

Mass is everything with antelope. Buck fawns born in years when conditions are favorable and does are healthy generally produce fawn bucks with larger bases. The same buck born with larger bases will produce more massive horns than bucks born in a poor year for the remainder of their lives.

It takes 2 1/2+ years to produce a B&C buck so B&C happens a lot sooner with antelope vs deer or elk. It helps having knowledge of past years weather, winterkill, fawn recruitment, etc to predict a particular current year’s horn growth. Also if you see several massive, great scoring bucks one year that make it through hunting season they likely will be available the next year in the same unit if there isn’t winterkill, disease, etc. and will score fairly close to the same irregardless of that years weather.

Bucks by late spring (first of June) already have most of their horn growth for the year so spring weather and moisture doesn’t mean a whole lot but will have more influence on buck fawns born the following spring.
 
Dry years force Pronghorn to eat browse with more protein in it vs lush grass. Dry year/Wet year is not what people think with Pronghorn.
 
jims said:
Deer and elk headgear are different than antelope. I’ve shot a couple of my highest scoring B&C antelope bucks in historic drought years.

Mass is everything with antelope. Buck fawns born in years when conditions are favorable and does are healthy generally produce fawn bucks with larger bases. The same buck born with larger bases will produce more massive horns than bucks born in a poor year for the remainder of their lives.

It takes 2 1/2+ years to produce a B&C buck so B&C happens a lot sooner with antelope vs deer or elk. It helps having knowledge of past years weather, winterkill, fawn recruitment, etc to predict a particular current year’s horn growth. Also if you see several massive, great scoring bucks one year that make it through hunting season they likely will be available the next year in the same unit if there isn’t winterkill, disease, etc. and will score fairly close to the same irregardless of that years weather.

Bucks by late spring (first of June) already have most of their horn growth for the year so spring weather and moisture doesn’t mean a whole lot but will have more influence on buck fawns born the following spring.
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What does drought have to do with the size of a fawn bases? I'd say very little to nothing it's all in the genetics. The bases are bone
 
That's like saying you'd be 6 foot 4 if your mom drank more water before you were born
 
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You are absolutely correct that genetics play a key role in antelope buck horn mass. That's one of the reasons Wyo has so many B&C listings and neighboring Colo has so few. There's a lot more to it than just genetics. If you've hunted the Red Desert in Wyo much you know for a fact that there are wet springs when horn bases on bucks is down right horrible and other years when it's droughty that are incredible. Why is this?

Ask the Grimmetts if they believe that antelope doe health influences buck fawn base measurements in the same area from 1 year to the next. Believe it or not, the bone diameter on the base of fawn bucks is not consistent from 1 year to the next in the same area. This is even more apparent when they are yearlings and 2 years old. Fawn bucks born when does are healthy have heavier bases (pedicle) from the year they are born for the remainder of their life.

The Grimmetts are pretty much pronghorn experts and that's where I got this info. I actually asked them what the heck was going on in dry years in prime Wyo antelope units. Once I started following this in Wyo it made a heck of a lot of sense and I could predict which units had the best potential from 1 year to the next.

Any way you look at it, just because it's a wet spring doesn't mean antelope bucks are going to have more massive horns. Also the same buck will have similar horn mass from 1 year to the next once they have matured....this doesn't fluctuate much with weather. My guess is that great conditions do help slightly but the same buck is likely going to score fairly similar from 1 year to the next regardless of weather.

Take a look at Grimmetts website sometime. He has sets of photos of the same bucks several years in a row and they are pretty darn close each year. Th pedicles on a mature buck don't all of a sudden shrink in dry years...the tops and prongs may be slightly less.

Bottom-line, if you've saved up a gob of antelope pref pts it certainly pays to know what's going on...even in historic B&C antelope units. You may wait 15 years for a tag and be sorely disappointed! It definitely pays to do a little research or know a local that is aware of what is going on with inside info.

By the way, my wife and I aren't exactly tall. My daughter is 6' and son 6'4." We must have fed our kids well!
 
jims said:
You are absolutely correct that genetics play a key role in antelope buck horn mass. That's one of the reasons Wyo has so many B&C listings and neighboring Colo has so few. There's a lot more to it than just genetics. If you've hunted the Red Desert in Wyo much you know for a fact that there are wet springs when horn bases on bucks is down right horrible and other years when it's droughty that are incredible. Why is this?

Ask the Grimmetts if they believe that antelope doe health influences buck fawn base measurements in the same area from 1 year to the next. Believe it or not, the bone diameter on the base of fawn bucks is not consistent from 1 year to the next in the same area. This is even more apparent when they are yearlings and 2 years old. Fawn bucks born when does are healthy have heavier bases (pedicle) from the year they are born for the remainder of their life.

The Grimmetts are pretty much pronghorn experts and that's where I got this info. I actually asked them what the heck was going on in dry years in prime Wyo antelope units. Once I started following this in Wyo it made a heck of a lot of sense and I could predict which units had the best potential from 1 year to the next.

Any way you look at it, just because it's a wet spring doesn't mean antelope bucks are going to have more massive horns. Also the same buck will have similar horn mass from 1 year to the next once they have matured....this doesn't fluctuate much with weather. My guess is that great conditions do help slightly but the same buck is likely going to score fairly similar from 1 year to the next regardless of weather.

Take a look at Grimmetts website sometime. He has sets of photos of the same bucks several years in a row and they are pretty darn close each year. Th pedicles on a mature buck don't all of a sudden shrink in dry years...the tops and prongs may be slightly less.

Bottom-line, if you've saved up a gob of antelope pref pts it certainly pays to know what's going on...even in historic B&C antelope units. You may wait 15 years for a tag and be sorely disappointed! It definitely pays to do a little research or know a local that is aware of what is going on with inside info.

By the way, my wife and I aren't exactly tall. My daughter is 6' and son 6'4." We must have fed our kids well!
Click to expand...
I wish I could take the time to read your short novels you publish here. Something about the Grimmetts?:giggle:
 
I'm always learning new things each day when I head out in the field for work and play....you can to!
 
I will admit I've never gone out on a good wet spring and measured fawn bases with a set of calipers either. Id be willing to bet no one else has either even the grimmetts
 
It is super easy to be a critic!

Yep you are correct, I haven’t measured fawn pedicles with calipers. I actually haven’t needed to. It’s a matter of looking at finer details in the field while scouting and hunting that many may tend to overlook.

Bookhead, have you ever used a spotter to look up close at yearling buck horn growth the year following a drought/poor conditions vs yearling horn growth after great moisture years? I would guess you have pretty much ignored all but the biggest bucks on the prairie? I’ve kept tabs on yearling horn growth in scattered units across Wyo for years. Believe it or not there are trends and that’s a great way to predict horn growth in future years.

There are a bunch of other things I’ve picked up about antelope horn growth over the years…but I better not write another short novel!
 
I doubt they eat much cheatgrass but it definitely inhibits the leader growth and diversity of browse species that improves the health of does. Actually indirectly cheatgrass impacts antelope health, pushes the ecosystem into a drought state, and likely affects horn growth in not only antelope bucks but also deer and elk antler growth. Many of the high intensity wildfires caused by cheatgrass across the West displaces sage and other browse that pronghorn depend upon. Great point SS, glad you brought cheatgrass up!

I could write another short novel on cheatgrass vs antelope, deer, and elk if you want?

Good news is they are spraying thousands of acres of cheatgrass in Sublette County Wyoming just north of unit 92.
 
Jims are either one of these gonna break 80 I need to know what area to apply for in 4 years. Been a pretty wet spring

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It took some digging but I found a publication documenting that bucks born in years having good moisture conditions have a propensity for larger horn mass throughout life.

Environmental Conditions as a Precursor of Pronghorn Horn Size throughout their Life

DAVID E. BROWN, Arizona State University, School of Life Sciences, P O Box 874501, Tempe, AZ 85287 USA [email protected] Proceedings Pronghorn Workshop 23:91-95

ABSTRACT Previous studies on the Armendariz Ranch in southwestern New Mexico have shown that variations in pronghorn (Antilocapra Americana) horn size, as measured by “green” Boone and Crockett scores, are related to the animal’s age and environmental conditions prior to and during horn growth. These conditions include both winter temperature minima and forage growth as measured by either the previous summer’s precipitation or July Palmer Drought Severity Indices. Genetics and environmental conditions at the time of the buck’s birth also appear to play a role in horn size as mean annual BC scores is significantly correlated with the May Palmer Drought Severity Index during the male’s natal year (r² = 0.42; P<0.02).


RESULTS The mean horn lengths and BC scores of the bucks harvested are arranged according to the May PDSI of their birth year and the October PDSI of their yearling year in Table 1. Although annual variations in horn size were small, and there were no significant relationships between the PDSI values and horn length, there was a significant correlation between May PDSI values and BC scores (r² = 0.42; P < 0.02; Fig. 1).

DISCUSSION I interpret my results as indicating that bucks born in years having good moisture conditions have a propensity for larger horn mass throughout life. Pronghorn horn size, and horn mass, is therefore dependent not only on the male’s age, environmental conditions preceding and during horn growth, and genetic propensity, but also on the conditions present at the time of its natality.

You Wyo cboys try to make me look like an idiot but I try to back up what I say with facts that not only make sense but are also documented. I guess my years of close observations in the field in Wyo aren't that far off?


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