Landowner Tags

BenHuntn

BenHuntn

Active Member
Messages
585
What the F**k is going on. On the Hunts and Tags Classifieds They are brokering Landowner tags for Colorado. No brokering allowed according to the rules. Why is this not shut down by Colorado Parks and Wildlife. Hunters Domain is one of the brokerage firms doing it. The Landowner tags transaction is to be between the landowner and the hunters purchasing them.












Charles Darwin:
Father of the theory of Evolution; Suggested that natural selection is the mechanism by which species evolve over geologic time.
 
In Colorado landowners rule and hunters drool. Not being an azz but posting here does not constitute a formal CPW complaint. Call or write CPW in a formal fashion. Doing so requires them to follow up.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
They are not "brokers", they are "facilitators"

Unfortunately, there are semi legal ways around most "laws". I totally agree with you that this should not be legal, but according to the powers that be, it is a technically legal way to get around the law.

In other words, the time and effort that went into making "brokering" not legal was a total waste of time.

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
>I saw this well last night.
>11,000 for a unit 2
>3rd season tag? Wonder how
>much of that the landowner
>gets?


You'd like to think the majority of the money goes to a rancher who needs the cash, but i doubt it.
 
Personally I don't mind it, helps guys like myself who don't know many landowners find a tag. Are the prices getting there? Yes, but that is going to happen regardless.
 
I spoke with CPW and requested to speak to a Law Enforcement Officer. I will wait for their call.












Charles Darwin:
Father of the theory of Evolution; Suggested that natural selection is the mechanism by which species evolve over geologic time.
 
Money only crosses hands between the buyer and the landowner. All they are is an advertising tool for the landowner. If the landowner decides to give them a cut of the money for advertising then so be it. Really not that big of a deal... is it?
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-25-19 AT 11:13AM (MST)[p]

For someone with the funds that can purchase one of those tags yearly, when it takes us many years to draw AND they get to hunt PUBLIC LAND, then yes, I think it is a big deal.

You want to sell PRIVATE LAND ONLY tags for whatever, I have no problem with that.

Can we stop it? NO, so I don't lose any sleep over it.

Benhuntin: I hope you find something out that I don't already know, but I researched it pretty thoroughly and found that was not anything we can do about it, because they are not breaking the law AS WRITTEN

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I absolutely don't disagree that just because you have 160+ acres that it could potentially give you a special opportunity to hunt the entire unit. That being said it is a nice opportunity if you can come up with some extra money and go on some good hunts without going through the draw process. I'm no landowner tag buying tycoon, but I have put in some extra effort at work, and set money aside that has allowed me to buy a couple cheaper tags over the years. As a whole, I'm glad the opportunity is available.
 
>I absolutely don't disagree that just
>because you have 160+ acres
>that it could potentially give
>you a special opportunity to
>hunt the entire unit. That
>being said it is a
>nice opportunity if you can
>come up with some extra
>money and go on some
>good hunts without going through
>the draw process. I'm no
>landowner tag buying tycoon, but
>I have put in some
>extra effort at work, and
>set money aside that has
>allowed me to buy a
>couple cheaper tags over the
>years. As a whole, I'm
>glad the opportunity is available.

+1
 
The landowner vouchers are crap and should not be allowed. It is very unfortunate that this system exist and as time goes on the opportunity for public hunters will be sacrificed in favor of landowners and big money.

There is a lot wrong with the system, but it should never have been allowed for profit.
 
I'm wondering how Hunters Domain was able to accumulate that many tags to facilitate transactions for the land owners? I am not aware of anything published or provided by the CPW that lists the property owners that drew the landowner tags.

The rules for advertising and brokering landowner tags seems pretty straight forward on the CPW site.

https://cpw.state.co.us/thingstodo/Pages/LandownerPreference.aspx#Voucher Transfer

I remember when the brokering rules were established and the landowners pushed back because of concerns over being able to sell tags. CPW developed a web site where the landowners could advertise tags for sale. I looked at that site a few times and never saw a landowner advertise. Can't find that web site anymore. Does anyone else recall this?
 
I believe (but will never buy one) of the 20% of vouchers in the quota of west of I-25 GMUs that qualify for LP, half of them are only good for private lands, and the other half good the entire GMU. Keep in mind though there are also PLO tags, which are in my mind a cousin to LP vouchers but available in the public draws/leftover lists. A key for LP private lands vouchers though is CP&W law enforcement insuring they are only used on private lands and not hunted on public lands (as they all were allowed years ago.

The revisions in LP were negotiated some years ago in the DOW LP Working Group.

East of I-25 which is mostly private lands my recollection it is a bit different with a larger % LP allowing farmer/ranchers having the entitlement of retaining a portion to their family/friends and the rest sellable. Eastern CO LP tags though are far fewer compared to some western slope GMUs that have a much larger quota of tags.

LP vouchers are a semi-complicated subject and will likely always be a controversial subject.
 
I was floored by the prices. I'm wondering if they will sell... a couple of those units I have bought tags from land owners for 700.00 - 800.00 they have them listed in the 2,000 dollar range.

some of those units you can draw with 0-1 point. Lol
 
If that land owner chose to be included there should be a CPW mechanism for that landowner to put his tag up for an Ebay type of bid. All the money goes to him. There is no reason for the middle man to make a big chunk of this the price goes higher...less opportunity the landowner makes less...
 
The way that I see it is just because someone owns 160 plus acres in a unit should NOT give them a spacial privilege to tags to hunt the whole unit. Pretty plain and simple!
 
Do the draw statistics show the total number of tags (Adult, Youth, and Landowner) issued for a GMU?

AM003O1A shows a quota of 110. Is that all of the hunters for that species in that unit for that season or are there landowner tags not included in that quota?

Thanks
 
Bottom line is the owners want their cake and eat it too.

They want the money that the tags generate, but they don't want to have to advertise and talk to all the people that it would require to sell the tags. So they use BROKERS.

You can call it by some other name, but we all know these guys are brokering the tags. They are not breaking the letter of the law, but they are breaking the spirit of the law

txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-26-19 AT 08:47PM (MST)[p]>Bottom line is the owners want
>their cake and eat it
>too.
>
>They want the money that the
>tags generate, but they don't
>want to have to advertise
>and talk to all the
>people that it would require
>to sell the tags.
>So they use BROKERS.
>
>You can call it by some
>other name, but we all
>know these guys are brokering
>the tags. They are
>not breaking the letter of
>the law, but they are
>breaking the spirit of the
>law
>
>txhunter58
>
>venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore
>I am)



Believe it or not but not all Landowners get vouchers just to sell them and make money. I know A few landowners that get them just to use among family and friends that didn't draw a tag for that year. And have never sold a one! In fact when they have extras they give them away to neighboring ranchers who might be short some for they family just so everybody can Hunt. And what goes around comes around the next year.:D
 
One landowner alone around Rangely who doesn't have the largest local spread openly admits and boost making near $250,000 a year from the LO tag program.That does not include the ag tax exemption or reduced taxes profits for outfitting/guiding as well which drives their profits even further. Not that it's a big deal or nothing.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
If a hunter was interested in purchasing a CO Land Owner tag for a particular unit, where would he start his search? I have an NR archery tag this year but would like opportunity to hunt CO more regularly if price isn't prohibitive.
 
This guy has the market jacked way up . Yea he might be a land manager but what he is doing is robbery, asking 3500 for a 2pt unit , just ridiculous
 
They pay for the advertising, not the selling of the tag. Your complaints will go nowhere. The tags are transferred directly from the landowner to the hunter.

Rich
 
O I understand they’ll go nowhere but all he is doing is taking the working class out of the game , and you call it what you want but it’s just a loop hole around a law that was put in place for a reason for crooks like this guy ,this upstanding citizen your talking about litterally called a landowner right after i purchased a voucher and told him not to sell me the voucher and he’d pay him double , and he was NOT the land manager, and you know as well as I do what he was doing , all I’m saying is it isn’t right.
 
Last edited:
KickrBuk said:
O I understand they’ll go nowhere but all he is doing is taking the working class out of the game , and you call it what you want but it’s just a loop hole around a law that was put in place for a reason for crooks like this guy ,this upstanding citizen your talking about litterally called a landowner right after i purchased a voucher and told him not to sell me the voucher and he’d pay him double , and he was NOT the land manager, and you know as well as I do what he was doing , all I’m saying is it isn’t right.
Click to expand...
You would think he could create a better website with all of hia profits.

If he gets double the money for the tag, won't the landowner make more with his services?
 
It allows people who didn't draw a way to still get a tag, yes they go directly from the landowner to the buyer. I have used Hunters Domain before and will continue to in the future if myself or one of my guys needs a tag. They do not set the price the landowner does. As far as having 160 acres to qualify for one then maybe it would be cheaper for some of you guys to go buy a piece of property out there instead of complaining of a service and or landowners that do give opportunity to still go hunting each year. You wanna play then you have to pay sometimes that's just the way it is.
 
Rule #1 is life isn't fair. this is no different than someone with more money having a nicer car and a nicer house. it sucks but the alternative is socialism.

The biggest thing in this and it applies to all states and most game herds is, they can't survive without private land. for obvious reasons the wintering grounds are often privately held and if those landowners really really don't want the game there they have a lot of tools to vastly reduce the herd numbers.

Rule #2 is money talks and bullchit walks. if you want to cause a bigger rift between landowners and game animals take away the incentive to put up with them on private lands. be happy the landowner gets paid, the more he gets paid the better off the herds will be.

Don't assume the landowner is too dumb to market the tags directly. maybe they don't want to.
 
2nd on life is fair. I would say that 95 percent of landowner tags never reach the open market. When is the last time you saw a 66 3rd deer tag advertised. They are given or sold to friends and families of the ranchers. What you see on the open market are always price inflated and usually 2nd or 3rd tier units. This changed when the brokering law was passed and when they made it mandatory that the ranchers allow access to their property for the use of the tag. Ranchers don't want someone they don't know or trust running all over their places. That is the reality.

Colorado almost all of the winter range is private. You need to have value in the animals that are competing against cattle for feed. If landowners don't value deer/elk/antelope, then we won't have as many opportunities as sportsman.

Vouchers are out there if you work at it and create relationships. Ranchers are just like you and me in that if you keep your word, treat their ranches with respect, leave it better than you found it, you will be able to find vouchers every year. They also have to draw them just like you and I and they have the same point system. Some tags are very hard to get, some very easy. I hunt on vouchers every year and have for the last 20 or so years.
Nothing to be ashamed of. My hobby is hunting and spending some money on a trip to Colorado is what I look forward to every year.

Rich
 
oljc said:
It allows people who didn't draw a way to still get a tag, yes they go directly from the landowner to the buyer. I have used Hunters Domain before and will continue to in the future if myself or one of my guys needs a tag. They do not set the price the landowner does. As far as having 160 acres to qualify for one then maybe it would be cheaper for some of you guys to go buy a piece of property out there instead of complaining of a service and or landowners that do give opportunity to still go hunting each year. You wanna play then you have to pay sometimes that's just the way it is.
Click to expand...
I’m all about paying fair prices and I do , you really don’t think HD doesn’t influence them on setting a price, example , last year a 3 pt unit for NR , asking $6,200 3rd season and will not provide landowner contact , ( not just to this tag , all tags ) and you know he gets the cream off the top , and trust me I know money talks and bullchit walks , obviously you pay for these over priced tags which is great !! but is it necessary to blow the roof off these prices and make it a rich man’s game ? Just stating facts here , and we can cordially agree to disagree, I’ll never recommend this guy.
 
?That’s fair enough I’m just saying guys will pay $10,000 for Canada $12,000 or more for Old Mexico to be guided on public ground for a Muley, so yes the vouchers can be an issue for some but it allows guys to be able to grab a tag in some instances. My boy didn’t draw a few years ago and I was able to get a voucher at a fair price and it’s was well worth it versus telling my son he couldn’t go.Maybe the system isn’t perfect but let’s remember it’s CPW they don’t do anything the right way!
 
Kind of an old thread, but......the landowner vouchers are priced based on willingness to pay. I don't like the high prices either, and will consider the economics of cheaper alternatives such as Canada or Mexico, where feasible. But the sellers/brokers of those vouchers are not just pulling a number out of their butt. They're not in it for charity purposes. It's based on receiving the maximum price that the open market will bear. The reality is that there are plenty of guys who hunt, for whom 20k is an insignificant amount of money. That fact alone means the prices keep rising.
 
KickrBuk said:
I’m all about paying fair prices and I do , you really don’t think HD doesn’t influence them on setting a price, example , last year a 3 pt unit for NR , asking $6,200 3rd season and will not provide landowner contact , ( not just to this tag , all tags ) and you know he gets the cream off the top , and trust me I know money talks and bullchit walks , obviously you pay for these over priced tags which is great !! but is it necessary to blow the roof off these prices and make it a rich man’s game ? Just stating facts here , and we can cordially agree to disagree, I’ll never recommend this guy.
Click to expand...
You have a point. You should start your own operation, and provide value for the landowners, and the hunters. Compete and drive down prices. Free market economics
 
That 62 3rd won't sell at that price unless they find a sucker. It will sell for a much lower price or stay there all summer. There are always 62 3rds around for sale at a much lower price than that.

Rich
 
KickrBuk said:
A lot of his tags won’t sell at those prices ,
Click to expand...
You might be surprised how many of these vouchers are already sold, but are still listed on these sites.

I would never pay $200k+ to hunt Antelope Island bucks in Utah, but guys/gals line up every year to do so. The "value" of a tag is exactly what someone is willing to pay for it, whether we think that price/rate is rationale or not. Great parallels to the current housing market here in the West.
 

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