Bonus point survey

Thanks for sharing, I'm in favor of a transition to bonus points. I will share with friends and family who have young kids and maybe want a chance to draw some of the areas where there is not a random tag to be had. So your telling me there's a chance! ?
 
Thanks for sharing, I'm in favor of a transition to bonus points. I will share with friends and family who have young kids and maybe want a chance to draw some of the areas where there is not a random tag to be had. So your telling me there's a chance! ?
That's why there's still random tags in most areas probably all after 90/10. You're entitled to your own opinion
 
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Apparently, Director Nesvik doesn't understand the current system has a random draw of 25% of the tags. It is stated, with bonus points, everyone will have a chance, which is already the case.
Yea, not sure why anyone would think a kid is going to appreciate a tag more then someone who's been building points for 25 years for a once in a lifetime tag. Also it's good to know when you're going to draw a once in a lifetime tag. I think it would suck to draw a once in a lifetime tag when you're 12 and don't even know enough about hunting to truly enjoy it to its fullest potential and appreciate it to is fullest as well but that's just my thoughts you don't get a second shot that's it.
 
I have always thought the best deal would have been keep preference points, 50-50 split between Random and Points.

Hardly anything changes in regard to the preference point allocation from added tags via 90-10, but would be significantly better for the Random side of the draw.

Anyone that believes squared bonus points work so great hasn't been applying long in Montana or Nevada.

My odds are worse in Nevada now than 10 years ago and I'm nearly 20 years into Nevada's squared bonus point system and haven't drawn a single tag there for anything. As applicants behind you pile up, your odds are diluted.
 
The question asked in the survey is about as disingenuous as you could get. Something like would you prefer a “good chance to draw a tag” or wait. The average person reading the survey is being manipulated into answering it how whoever wrote the question wants to see the results turn out. A good chance in my eyes is a coin toss, not 1% odds or less.
 
I have always thought the best deal would have been keep preference points, 50-50 split between Random and Points.

Hardly anything changes in regard to the preference point allocation from added tags via 90-10, but would be significantly better for the Random side of the draw.

Anyone that believes squared bonus points work so great hasn't been applying long in Montana or Nevada.

My odds are worse in Nevada now than 10 years ago and I'm nearly 20 years into Nevada's squared bonus point system and haven't drawn a single tag there for anything. As applicants behind you pile up, your odds are diluted.
That's definitely correct in regards to Nevada. I have experienced the same exact thing.
 
I’ve drawn 3 buck tags, 1 antelope and finally bull elk this year in the last 22 years here in NV. Not a lot of tags.
 
I'm guessing residents who are middle-tier for points would be against bonus points with low-point holders for them. High point holders will burn their points before bonus points are implemented if they can. There will be people in favor of bonus points because they have young kids who are not eligible. My point being, we all come at this issue with what's best for us and our family.

I think all R and NR points should be frozen. They should square the points until they are used. New applicants shouldn't be allowed points. Get rid of the Ponzi scheme.

IMO, comparing NV to WY isn't a fair comparison, because most of you are looking at NV being a NR. NV does not offer a ton of NR tags for any species. I have felt the NV pain myself. If you are a WY resident there will substantially higher number of tags at 90/10.

On a side note, NDOW's vendor's website for applying and draw turn around is the best in the business. WY G&F should take note of that.
 
Anyone that says they are for a squared bonus point system have never really looked at the draw results in Nevada, nor understand how statistical probability works. Look at how many sheep tags go to the highest tier of point holders (resident and nonresident). Hint, it's about the same as those who hold 0-3 points.
 
We never had problems like this when tags were sold over the counter only.
Correct BUT we never had the population and the demand on the limited resource like we have now.... in every State, Period. Many tags are still OTC for res hunters anyway!

I don't like the direction Wyo is headed with NR tag splits but I can certainly see it from the res point of view. Other States have not been all that NR friendly either so....here we go.

***The single biggest issue I have is allowing the outfitters to dip into the remaining NR tags and take them right off the top. That's total bull chit!***

Zeke
 
Yea, not sure why anyone would think a kid is going to appreciate a tag more then someone who's been building points for 25 years for a once in a lifetime tag. Also it's good to know when you're going to draw a once in a lifetime tag. I think it would suck to draw a once in a lifetime tag when you're 12 and don't even know enough about hunting to truly enjoy it to its fullest potential and appreciate it to is fullest as well but that's just my thoughts you don't get a second shot that's it.
Haha. From that statement, I know there are more than a few 12 year olds who would likely hunt circles around you on their once in a lifetime tags… My son would love a good tag and he is 12, and I am willing to bet he would hunt it harder than 90% of the adults that hunt.
 
I think the only viable solution is a UFC tournament for tag disbursement. If you want to hunt, jump in the octagon and fight for it! WGFD could charge admission to make a few bucks for conservation. Hunters would be in better shape and there would be less whining. -----SS
 
Haha. From that statement, I know there are more than a few 12 year olds who would likely hunt circles around you on their once in a lifetime tags… My son would love a good tag and he is 12, and I am willing to bet he would hunt it harder than 90% of the adults that hunt.
Really? You missed his point I think.
 
Haha. From that statement, I know there are more than a few 12 year olds who would likely hunt circles around you on their once in a lifetime tags… My son would love a good tag and he is 12, and I am willing to bet he would hunt it harder than 90% of the adults that hunt.
And you aren't even gonna hunt circles around me much less your kid ?
 
And encase you didn't get my point I also have a kid and she will get just as much enjoyment out of shooting an average antelope when she's 12 as she would a bull moose accept she can continue to hunt antelope the moose will be never again and I would rather her have a few season under her belt so she can appreciate a moose tag or a sheep tag more make sense? Good
 
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Looks like they are asking NR's for input, here is mine
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I really don’t like the four years to implement part of the recommendation. Just make whatever changes and be done with it. All that will do is put a different group at the top who will complain they are getting it the worst. Wish they would go all random and freeze everyone at current point level. No more accumulation of points for anyone.
 
In the interest of full disclosure, yes I have piles of nonresident preference points in WY. Over the years I've probably given WY over $6k just for points.

I have no personal axe to grind with the Task Force that came up with these recommendations...probably well intentioned people that gave this a lot of thought and discussion.

Now it's going to be up to the Wyoming Legislature to give careful and practical consideration to the bonus vs preference point question and all of its consequences. I am not an attorney but I bet there are some out there that smell blood in the water.

Consider this example-- Let's say you give Ford Motor Co. a deposit and Ford cashes your check. You and Ford have an agreement that the transfer of funds is in simple terms, to hold your place in line to purchase a Diesel F250 Super Duty when production makes one available.

At some point in the future Ford says, "We've changed our minds and we are going to have a raffle to see who on the waiting list gets the next F250 rather than first come first served, oh and by the way, Ford is keeping your deposit."

Well Ford doesn't have the right to unilaterally change the terms of the "contract" they entered into when they took your money. I wonder where this will leave the state of Wyoming when disgruntled applicants come seeking judgements?

Now it's worth pointing out that decades ago Colorado did away with preference points for sheep and goat and just issued applicants bonus points instead without serious repercussions. The difference is that Colorado had been charging an application fee of around $3 and giving unsuccessful applicants bonus points. Well Wyoming hasn't been "giving" away bonus points, they've been selling them for $150 a pop. Because Wyoming took the money they have a duty to perform the terms of the agreement.

I have no intention to "lawyer up" but I bet there are those who will and just suggest the Wyoming Legislature have their legal experts explore this scenario before they pass legislation.
 
NR here and I also received the survey E-mail.


”Wyoming Game and Fish Department wants your thoughts on the Wyoming preference point system.
The Wyoming Game and Fish Department wants your feedback on a recommendation developed by the Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce that could impact how preference points are used in the Wyoming moose and bighorn sheep draws.

Following multiple discussions over several meetings, the Wyoming Wildlife Taskforce voted to recommend a substantial change to the manner in which bighorn sheep and moose licenses are issued for both residents and nonresidents specific to the use of preference points.

There are three primary components of the changes recommended:

1) Transition from a prescriptive draw where 75% of licenses are drawn from the top point holders to a system that is completely random.

2) Transition to a weighted bonus point system where an applicant’s advantage in the draw increases exponentially with each subsequent year they continue to apply. The Taskforce recommends this be implemented by squaring an applicant’s total number of bonus points.

3) Delay implementation by up to four years from the date the law is effective to provide long term applicants with the highest numbers of preference points a transition period.

This topic is a current interim topic for the Wyoming Legislature Travel, Wildlife and Recreation Committee.
The Wyoming Game and Fish Departments wants to hear your thoughts to bring to the discussion at the legislature.

Any changes would still need to work through a legislative process that includes multiple opportunities for public involvement.”



I am not buying the following statement;

2) Transition to a weighted bonus point system where an applicant’s advantage in the draw increases exponentially with each subsequent year they continue to apply.

Fortunately I saw the handwriting on the wall years ago and have drawn both my moose and sheep tag. At $150 per bonus point (most likely cost will continue to increase) if I were a NR I would forego the costly worthless bonus point expense and just apply for a random tag if there are going to be any available in the future. Just my personal opinion…

Horniac
 
The decision on what they are going to do has already been made. Surveys and all the crap are just to pretend people were listened to.

You can count on that.
Mostly correct but if you read between the lines, like we all should, it's a survey to determine how to morph the system to keep NR's buying points and continue to slash NR tags. It's not veiled so you don't have to look very hard to see that's what the survey is really about.

I'm fine (sort of, haha) with the residents getting a bump in tags since wildlife belong to them but it's all the other crapola that's aggravating for this NR hunter.... like the preference to bonus change, welfare tag set-aside and HD v SD tags! Silly feel-good crap. Watch your money carefully guys!

Zeke
 
Its impossible for a nr to have spent $6000 on points and nobody is gonna sue.
Throw in a couple kids per year and you could for sure. I think I will likely sue with 21 sheep points. I am guessing I will not win, but it is a 30K+ sort of tag many have waited for decades to draw and the rug is being pulled out to incentivize people buying points. I really don't see how there will not be a lawsuit of some sort unless refunds are offered. My 2 cents which will be worth 2 more cents than my 21 sheep points.
 
I have not read all the comments here so I could be repeating someone else’s response already.

The non-residents got asked for input too.

It is a loaded survey, like everyone I’ve ever taken from every State’s Wildlife Agency. Loaded because they either want a specific outcome OR, THEY ARE TOO CHEAP TO HIRE A VIABLE RESEARCH COMPANY TO DEVELOP AN OBJECTIVE SURVEY. THEY SIMPLY WON’T DO IT.

So…….. if given the option, I always express my opinion regardless of how limited or leading their choices are. I will not let them, if there is an avenue to do other wish, not to push my choice, if it isn’t one of options they have provided. I try not to be manipulated or used, if I can help it.
 
Throw in a couple kids per year and you could for sure. I think I will likely sue with 21 sheep points. I am guessing I will not win, but it is a 30K+ sort of tag many have waited for decades to draw and the rug is being pulled out to incentivize people buying points. I really don't see how there will not be a lawsuit of some sort unless refunds are offered. My 2 cents which will be worth 2 more cents than my 21 sheep points.
All you need is a group of guys and a lawyer will come.
 
Well Wyoming hasn't been "giving" away bonus points, they've been selling them for $150 a pop. Because Wyoming took the money they have a duty to perform the terms of the agreement.

I have no intention to "lawyer up" but I bet there are those who will and just suggest the Wyoming Legislature have their legal experts explore this scenario before they pass legislation.
I can't find my copy of the PP agreement we all have with the G&F. Could you post yours here please?
 
Just like you said the Wyo results would not be out early? ?

The fees starting with year one are available from the dept to anyone who asks. He can sue the state if he wants to, I doubt it’ll get to court. No matter what they do a nr will still have a chance to draw. I haven’t seen a regulation nor statute that says anyone is guaranteed a tag. Sucks for sure, AZ doubled my wait time for a 2nd Elk tag.
 
The fees starting with year one are available from the dept to anyone who asks. He can sue the state if he wants to, I doubt it’ll get to court. No matter what they do a nr will still have a chance to draw. I haven’t seen a regulation nor statute that says anyone is guaranteed a tag. Sucks for sure, AZ doubled my wait time for a 2nd Elk tag.
Couldn’t agree more. Their State, their system, mine to like it or leave it. I’ve got 22 moose points, I won’t sue. I’m a swimming pool, not a sewer. I knew what I was doing when I started buying points.

Do I want to loose my chance after the time and money, hell not, but it’s not my business how Wyoming runs it’s business….I’m free to leave if I want to. I may but that’s the way it is. I was never, ever promised a moose tag.
 
And you aren't even gonna hunt circles around me much less your kid ?
I would bet my 12 year old would hunt as hard if not harder than 90% of the guys with a similar tag. Also stand by the idea that he can appreciate it as much as the next guy.
 
Couldn’t agree more. Their State, their system, mine to like it or leave it. I’ve got 22 moose points, I won’t sue. I’m a swimming pool, not a sewer. I knew what I was doing when I started buying points.

Do I want to loose my chance after the time and money, hell not, but it’s not my business how Wyoming runs it’s business….I’m free to leave if I want to. I may but that’s the way it is. I was never, ever promised a moose tag.
You could have drawn lots of moose tags with 22 points and can get out and draw a tag any year, way different scenario then someone with 21 sheep points
 
You could have drawn lots of moose tags with 22 points and can get out and draw a tag any year, way different scenario then someone with 21 sheep points
That’s true, and I couldn’t tell anyone a single thing about sheep points, I’m not a sheep hunter and never have been, so I’ll leave the sheep info for the sheep guys to respond to.
 
Haven’t posted here in a while. I responded to the WG&F survey, and if you are a points-holder, would encourage you to do so also.

My response emphasized the importance of delaying the implementation of the proposed change for AT LEAST four years, not the UP TO four years currently included in the letter (which could mean one year, or less!). This would give some of those who have ”invested” in expensive preference points for twenty years or more a chance to use their points before being thrown into the weighted bonus point lottery.

HT
 
Haven’t posted here in a while. I responded to the WG&F survey, and if you are a points-holder, would encourage you to do so also.

My response emphasized the importance of delaying the implementation of the proposed change for AT LEAST four years, not the UP TO four years currently included in the letter (which could mean one year, or less!). This would give some of those who have ”invested” in expensive preference points for twenty years or more a chance to use their points before being thrown into the weighted bonus point lottery.

HT
Do you really think that you will use your points in 4 years? That is the problem
With points. A bunch of guys with no intention to hunt build up points. Running the cost up
For everyone and the odds down.
 
Really? I doubt there are that many idiots paying for points they never intend to use. That makes little sense.

Fortunately, I drew a bighorn tag six years ago and took a nice ram. My concern is for others who have been building points for twenty-five years or more. I believe it is only fair that they be given a reasonable chance to draw before the system is changed. Apparently, some other members of the task force feel the same. The only question is how much of a “delayed implementation” is appropriate.

If any knuckleheads continue to buy points with no intent to use them, then their loss goes straight to WG&F.
 
Do you really think that you will use your points in 4 years? That is the problem
With points. A bunch of guys with no intention to hunt build up points. Running the cost up
For everyone and the odds down.
If they aren't applying for tags, how is that decreasing draw odds? They have to apply for their points to mean anything in the draw.

There were a bunch of people with way more points than me that could have drawn my sheep tag in 2019, they didn't apply so meant nothing to my odds.
 
I can't find my copy of the PP agreement we all have with the G&F.
The problem with that is G&F has correctly identified the fact that a PP system along with 90/10 will dramatically decrease the amount of NRs willing to play their game. They won’t be able to balance their books if they take up your suggestion. It is much easier to just deal with upset NRs who invested in a system of their creation, the previous PP system.

They feel confident the good ol’ boy network which includes the Wyo courts will protect them from lawsuits. Except for that pesky interstate commerce issue…
 
I did what I did this year, due to knowing this was coming. I had 21 points for moose and drew a tag and will gladly use it and make it the best experience I can. I put in for a unit I hoped I would draw. However, not the top units I had been putting in for (I settled for what was best for this new situation). I'll get to hunt my moose in Wyoming and will enjoy it. Not quit the hunt I was looking forward to, but a moose hunt.

As people have said, I could have drawn a lesser moose tags for several years now, but not what most hunters originally got into the point game for. Just saying.

I know Wyoming has been losing applicants in the moose and sheep pools for years and are trying to find a way to get numbers up to increase revenue. I understand that.

However, points started at a very reasonable price 20+ years ago and then went up to todays rate of $150 plus a $15 application and a 2.5% transaction fee of $50 on the $2000 tag fee for moose. As stated before, adds up and changes to the point game after years of investing is not easy to swallow. Great for the residents (small odd increase) bad for NR, but we are non-resident and not garrenteed anything. We must just make our own choice to hunt what and where we wish for what cost.

Moose - $150+ a year for point with app fee.
Sheep - $150+ a year for point with app fee.
Elk - $50+ a year for point with app fee.
Deer - $40+ a year for point with app fee.
Antelope - $30+ a year for point with app fee.

At $420 a person just to apply for points for these. (Not including $15 app fee and 2.5% transaction fees). It adds up when I apply for wife, 3 sons and myself.

This is where I have to make the choice to continue to just purchase deer and antelope tags/points for us all and continue to purchase elk points until my last two sons draw elk. I have hunted wyoming for over 40 years and appreciate and love hunting there. I hope to continue, but it will be for deer and antelope only after this years moose hunt and my two sons drawing their elk tags.

Hunting with family and making memories is what it is about. Weather that be chasing Wyoming big game or whitetails back east to Texas hogs or just rabbits and small game. Time with family making memories at a price that makes sense and doesn't break the bank.

Sorry for the rant. Thanks to Wyoming and it's residents for many memories made and more to be made. Hope to see you all in wyoming on one of our hunts or maybe even tagging along with some of those that do draw wyoming tags. Pulling the trigger does not make the hunt or memories anymore.

Best of luck to you all this fall on your hunts
 
I did what I did this year, due to knowing this was coming. I had 21 points for moose and drew a tag and will gladly use it and make it the best experience I can. I put in for a unit I hoped I would draw. However, not the top units I had been putting in for (I settled for what was best for this new situation). I'll get to hunt my moose in Wyoming and will enjoy it. Not quit the hunt I was looking forward to, but a moose hunt.

As people have said, I could have drawn a lesser moose tags for several years now, but not what most hunters originally got into the point game for. Just saying.

I know Wyoming has been losing applicants in the moose and sheep pools for years and are trying to find a way to get numbers up to increase revenue. I understand that.

However, points started at a very reasonable price 20+ years ago and then went up to todays rate of $150 plus a $15 application and a 2.5% transaction fee of $50 on the $2000 tag fee for moose. As stated before, adds up and changes to the point game after years of investing is not easy to swallow. Great for the residents (small odd increase) bad for NR, but we are non-resident and not garrenteed anything. We must just make our own choice to hunt what and where we wish for what cost.

Moose - $150+ a year for point with app fee.
Sheep - $150+ a year for point with app fee.
Elk - $50+ a year for point with app fee.
Deer - $40+ a year for point with app fee.
Antelope - $30+ a year for point with app fee.

At $420 a person just to apply for points for these. (Not including $15 app fee and 2.5% transaction fees). It adds up when I apply for wife, 3 sons and myself.

This is where I have to make the choice to continue to just purchase deer and antelope tags/points for us all and continue to purchase elk points until my last two sons draw elk. I have hunted wyoming for over 40 years and appreciate and love hunting there. I hope to continue, but it will be for deer and antelope only after this years moose hunt and my two sons drawing their elk tags.

Hunting with family and making memories is what it is about. Weather that be chasing Wyoming big game or whitetails back east to Texas hogs or just rabbits and small game. Time with family making memories at a price that makes sense and doesn't break the bank.

Sorry for the rant. Thanks to Wyoming and it's residents for many memories made and more to be made. Hope to see you all in wyoming on one of our hunts or maybe even tagging along with some of those that do draw wyoming tags. Pulling the trigger does not make the hunt or memories anymore.

Best of luck to you all this fall on your hunts
Did the exact same thing with moose. For the same reason. I still didn’t draw, still was a one four chance with 21 points. Oh well……. It’s Wyoming’s wildlife, their choice to make.
 
The problem with that is G&F has correctly identified the fact that a PP system along with 90/10 will dramatically decrease the amount of NRs willing to play their game. They won’t be able to balance their books if they take up your suggestion. It is much easier to just deal with upset NRs who invested in a system of their creation, the previous PP system.

They feel confident the good ol’ boy network which includes the Wyo courts will protect them from lawsuits. Except for that pesky interstate commerce issue…
Interstate commerce doesn't matter anymore either.

SB 399 passed in 2005, reaffirming state rights to manage wildlife. Included language that nullified interstate commerce in regard to allocations of a states wildlife.
 
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Interstate commerce doesn't matter anymore either.

SB 399 passed in 2005, reaffirming state rights to manage wildlife. Included language that nullified interstate commerce in regard to allocations of a states wildlife.
Yep. As they should.
 
Interstate commerce doesn't matter anymore either.

SB 399 passed in 2005, reaffirming state rights to manage wildlife. Included language that nullified interstate commerce in regard to allocations of a states wildlife.
The challenge would not be about allocations of wildlife. It would be with regard to the contractual nature of the issue of points. Should be interesting!
 
Interstate commerce doesn't matter anymore either.

SB 399 passed in 2005, reaffirming state rights to manage wildlife. Included language that nullified interstate commerce in regard to allocations of a states wildlife.
You are correct. SB 399 reaffirmed state rights to MANAGE wildlife. This is a far cry from the “ownership” of wildlife often claimed by guys who don’t know the law.

Most of Wyoming’s wildlife occurs on FEDERAL land, belonging to all of the people of the United State. If Wyoming and other states, such as New Mexico, want to severely discrimate against non-residents in the use of federal lands for hunting purposes (being the only discriminatory use of federal land based on residency status), then perhaps it is time to shut down all hunting on federal land, treating it all as we do the national parks, as refuge for wildlife.

Let Wyoming allocate hunting rights on state owned land to a fare-the-well.

I expect this is where these severely discriminatory policies will lead.

HT
 
You are correct. SB 399 reaffirmed state rights to MANAGE wildlife. This is a far cry from the “ownership” of wildlife often claimed by guys who don’t know the law.

Most of Wyoming’s wildlife occurs on FEDERAL land, belonging to all of the people of the United State. If Wyoming and other states, such as New Mexico, want to severely discrimate against non-residents in the use of federal lands for hunting purposes (being the only discriminatory use of federal land based on residency status), then perhaps it is time to shut down all hunting on federal land, treating it all as we do the national parks, as refuge for wildlife.

Let Wyoming allocate hunting rights on state owned land to a fare-the-well.

I expect this is where these severely discriminatory policies will lead.

HT
Incorrect, read the bill.

Land ownership and wildlife ownership are mutually exclusive.

It's been tried in court and nrs lose everytime.
 
You are correct. SB 399 reaffirmed state rights to MANAGE wildlife. This is a far cry from the “ownership” of wildlife often claimed by guys who don’t know the law.

Most of Wyoming’s wildlife occurs on FEDERAL land, belonging to all of the people of the United State. If Wyoming and other states, such as New Mexico, want to severely discrimate against non-residents in the use of federal lands for hunting purposes (being the only discriminatory use of federal land based on residency status), then perhaps it is time to shut down all hunting on federal land, treating it all as we do the national parks, as refuge for wildlife.

Let Wyoming allocate hunting rights on state owned land to a fare-the-well.

I expect this is where these severely discriminatory policies will lead.

HT

Meanwhile your home state is looking out for the NR.
 
Well, try hunting ”your” wildlife in a national park. Not allowed, is it?

I used to do a bit of mountaineering. When I applied for a permit to summit the Grand Teton, no one asked about my residency status. Any citizen of the United States could apply to climb that mountain, even though it was located in Wyoming.

Currently, the ONLY use of federal lands for which discrimination takes place based on residency status is hunting. Just sayin… if residents of states like Wyoming keep shoving non-residents away, those non-residents may decide at some point that no one… no one… should be allowed to hunt wildlife on any federal land, including national forests, BLM, wildlife refuges and the like.
 
Well, try hunting ”your” wildlife in a national park. Not allowed, is it?

I used to do a bit of mountaineering. When I applied for a permit to summit the Grand Teton, no one asked about my residency status. Any citizen of the United States could apply to climb that mountain, even though it was located in Wyoming.

Currently, the ONLY use of federal lands for which discrimination takes place based on residency status is hunting. Just sayin… if residents of states like Wyoming keep shoving non-residents away, those non-residents may decide at some point that no one… no one… should be allowed to hunt wildlife on any federal land, including national forests, BLM, wildlife refuges and the like.
I'll remember this the next time I'm on federal land hunting Wyoming's wildlife. I'll crack a smile just for you.
 
P

Mine is. Haha. Come to Virginia where we love all non-residents! You can shoot 3 bucks, 3 turkeys and a bear on millions of acres of national forest for a fraction of the cost of tags in western states.
How's the pronghorn, mule deer and elk hunting?
 
P

Mine is. Haha. Come to Virginia where we love all non-residents! You can shoot 3 bucks, 3 turkeys and a bear on millions of acres of national forest for a fraction of the cost of tags in western states.

If the hunting is so great in Virginia, why do thousands of hunters from back east come west, but very few westerners head to places like Virginia.
 
Well, try hunting ”your” wildlife in a national park. Not allowed, is it?

I used to do a bit of mountaineering. When I applied for a permit to summit the Grand Teton, no one asked about my residency status. Any citizen of the United States could apply to climb that mountain, even though it was located in Wyoming.

Currently, the ONLY use of federal lands for which discrimination takes place based on residency status is hunting. Just sayin… if residents of states like Wyoming keep shoving non-residents away, those non-residents may decide at some point that no one… no one… should be allowed to hunt wildlife on any federal land, including national forests, BLM, wildlife refuges and the like.
Pretty sure elk are hunted in Teton national park.
 
You are correct. SB 399 reaffirmed state rights to MANAGE wildlife. This is a far cry from the “ownership” of wildlife often claimed by guys who don’t know the law.

Most of Wyoming’s wildlife occurs on FEDERAL land, belonging to all of the people of the United State. If Wyoming and other states, such as New Mexico, want to severely discrimate against non-residents in the use of federal lands for hunting purposes (being the only discriminatory use of federal land based on residency status), then perhaps it is time to shut down all hunting on federal land, treating it all as we do the national parks, as refuge for wildlife.

Let Wyoming allocate hunting rights on state owned land to a fare-the-well.

I expect this is where these severely discriminatory policies will lead.

HT
Hunting goes on in Denali national park and wrangel st Elias national park. And Teton national park…
 
Haven’t posted here in a while. I responded to the WG&F survey, and if you are a points-holder, would encourage you to do so also.

My response emphasized the importance of delaying the implementation of the proposed change for AT LEAST four years, not the UP TO four years currently included in the letter (which could mean one year, or less!). This would give some of those who have ”invested” in expensive preference points for twenty years or more a chance to use their points before being thrown into the weighted bonus point lottery.

HT
Two problems with "waiting 4 years", for NR's especially. First is, that during those 4 years, no one except the max and near-max point holders will have any chance in the draw. Because the random sheep tags for NR's have now been mathematically eliminated by the legislature's 90/10 mandate which takes effect in July of this year. So everyone else just has to keep applying and buying points at 150.00 a pop, with zero chance to draw? The second issue is that there are more than 1000 NR's holding 21 or more points. Since there are now a maximum of 18 licenses available for NR's yearly, it would take 55+ years to clear just those guys out, if they lived long enough. There's gotta be a better plan.
 
How's the pronghorn, mule deer and elk hunting?
It's awesome! The rest are a real challenge though and if you combine western tactics with eastern whitetail ones you can be succesful. It is super rewarding and in many cases quite a bit harder and more challenging than a western hunt for mule deer or elk. A big woods mature whitetail is quite the trophy.
 
If the hunting is so great in Virginia, why do thousands of hunters from back east come west, but very few westerners head to places like Virginia.
Good question. More should do it, especially based on the cost and opportunity and season times. You can hunt the whole month of November with a gun, usually after many of the Western seasons end and you can shoot more than 1 buck if you want to.

There are more non-residents that hunt Virginia than Wyoming as an fyi!
 
Serious question. I’m from Utah, very few whitetail deer here. I’m trying to focus on whitetail these days. Having a little trouble finding a State I can hunt every year, where I can get to know the area and hunt from a ground blind. Not looking to kill monsters, just want a location where there are whitetails that a nonresident can hunt every year.

I will most likely fly and rent a uhaul van or truck I can sleep in.

I’ve looked at the fees, ($200.00 give or take) read some details and regulations on the Viginia DWR site….. but would appreciate any nuances that you think would be insightful for a totally ignorant out of Stater.

While Utah isn’t conducive to big game hunting without having built up a few years of points, I’m willing to answer any specific questions, if you are interested in hunt here.


Thank you.
 
once again, BuzzH, Wyoming G&F will not be getting sued over ownership. It will be sued over deceptive business practices, fraud, or whatever our high-dollar attorneys decide is appropriate. Kepp on believing a PP is the same as a BP. But there will be a price to pay. Perhaps increased R tag prices can cover the damages awarded. Im out of the points game for the Big 5 in Wyo so this is just entertainment for me now.
Incorrect, read the bill.

Land ownership and wildlife ownership are mutually exclusive.

It's been tried in court and nrs lose everytime.
 
once again, BuzzH, Wyoming G&F will not be getting sued over ownership. It will be sued over deceptive business practices, fraud, or whatever our high-dollar attorneys decide is appropriate. Kepp on believing a PP is the same as a BP. But there will be a price to pay. Perhaps increased R tag prices can cover the damages awarded. Im out of the points game for the Big 5 in Wyo so this is just entertainment for me now.
They won't be getting sued over anything.

Also you can't be out of the point system for the big 5. Goat, bison and grizzly have no point system to get out of.
 
They won't be getting sued over anything.

Also you can't be out of the point system for the big 5. Goat, bison and grizzly have no point system to get out of.
A Haiku to the NR, titled "BuzzH decides."

BuzzH decides if you feel you have been damaged.
BuzzH decides if you can seek counsel or not.
BuzzH decides if you choose to sue.
BuzzH decides if the case has merit.
BuzzH decides if the case has standing.
BuzzH decides your case is heard.
BuzzH decides if your case prevails.
BuzzH decides if damages are awarded.

Buzz H decides.
 
A Haiku to the NR, titled "BuzzH decides."

BuzzH decides if you feel you have been damaged.
BuzzH decides if you can seek counsel or not.
BuzzH decides if you choose to sue.
BuzzH decides if the case has merit.
BuzzH decides if the case has standing.
BuzzH decides your case is heard.
BuzzH decides if your case prevails.
BuzzH decides if damages are awarded.

Buzz H decides.
One thing he is probably right about. Gonna be hard to find an attorney that will take it to court. State vs disgruntled nr hunter. Good luck
 
Hunting goes on in Denali national park and wrangel st Elias national park. And Teton national park…
Federally controlled “culling” by government employees may be going on in those national parks… but permitted hunting? If so, where does one apply for a permit?

I’ve hunted the wildlife preserves adjoining both Denali and Wrangell - St. Elias national parks, and took solid rams out of each. But there was never any question about crossing the boundary to hunt in the national parks, which would have been highly illegal.

Are you sure you’ve got your facts straight?
 
A Haiku to the NR, titled "BuzzH decides."

BuzzH decides if you feel you have been damaged.
BuzzH decides if you can seek counsel or not.
BuzzH decides if you choose to sue.
BuzzH decides if the case has merit.
BuzzH decides if the case has standing.
BuzzH decides your case is heard.
BuzzH decides if your case prevails.
BuzzH decides if damages are awarded.

Buzz H decides.
There's little doubt you're "damaged"...but I can't help you with that.
 
I’ve hunted the wildlife preserves adjoining both Denali and Wrangell - St. Elias national parks, and took solid rams out of each. But there was never any question about crossing the boundary to hunt in the national parks, which would have been highly illegal.

Are you sure you’ve got your facts straight?
There is no culling going on in AK. And yes they can be hunted. Fact.
 
Thanks for sharing, I'm in favor of a transition to bonus points. I will share with friends and family who have young kids and maybe want a chance to draw some of the areas where there is not a random tag to be had. So your telling me there's a chance! ?
Sorry to go off script but Jake when did you post that profile picture you been hiding that one or have I not seen you on here in awhile!? That is one hell of a deer My friend
 

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