WY Taskforce - High Demand & Standard Demand

Southpawshooter

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I emailed a majority of the TF about my thoughts on the upcoming meeting. In my email, I expressed my fear that successful HD applicants on the 3-year waiting period would flood the SD units, causing SD draw odds to go down. I wrote this because of comment #4 for public input. It states "The Commission, through its rules and regulation, shall establish guidelines that impose a mandatory waiting period for any individual, excluding a qualified landowner holding a landowner license, who possessed a Type 1, 2, or 9 antelope, deer, or elk license for a HD Unit. Those individuals shall be ineligible to apply for another Type 1, 2, or 9 for the respective species in any HD area for a period of 3-years after drawing one of these licenses."

I received multiple responses to my email, which I really appreciate. In two of the responses, TF members wrote successful HD hunters will have a 3-year waiting period and they will be ineligible for any SD type 1, 2, or 9 licenses as a first choice. This would prevent HD hunters from ruining SD draw odds.

Basically, if you draw a HD tag you will be hunting general units for 3 years, unless you apply for an undersubscribed unit.

Just thought some of you would want to know for clarification purposes.

Personally, I am still against any waiting period. I think people who want to hunt HD units should be able to apply every year. The most important part is that HD go 90/10.
 
My goodness, for a state with the lowest human population, and a bountiful game resource, the Wyoming residents really think they’re getting the short end of the deal with opportunity.

It blows my mind, when compared to every other western state. SMH
 
Waiting periods will only make a difference in moderate draw odds areas. Those are the areas that a random system works the best. If this becomes a recommendation and is implemented by the Commission, there will be future changes made to address the problems that will surely arise.
 
From what I have seen, it appears to be a small yet highly vocal minority of wyo residents that have been hammering away at TF members about the need for waiting periods. The TF is just responding to those that are making the most noise. Cant necessarily fault them for that.
 
My goodness, for a state with the lowest human population, and a bountiful game resource, the Wyoming residents really think they’re getting the short end of the deal with opportunity.

It blows my mind, when compared to every other western state. SMH
I haven't drawn an elk tag in 9 years and for 8 of those years I've applied in areas that very from 24-30% that's a pretty short end of the stick I'd say
 
I haven't drawn an elk tag in 9 years and for 8 of those years I've applied in areas that very from 24-30% that's a pretty short end of the stick I'd say
We live in such an entitled society.

A Wyoming resident who can buy an over the counter deer and elk tag every year is complaining that not drawing a coveted LQ elk tag is “the short end of the stick”
 
We live in such an entitled society.

A Wyoming resident who can buy an over the counter deer and elk tag every year is complaining that not drawing a coveted LQ elk tag is “the short end of the stick”
They’re the most vocal, entitled group I have seen. My god, if they moved to Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, what would they do, if they didn’t get 1 SINGLE tag, in a given year……

They’d probably line up on the highest bridge, and jump off…..
 
We live in such an entitled society.

A Wyoming resident who can buy an over the counter deer and elk tag every year is complaining that not drawing a coveted LQ elk tag is “the short end of the stick”
How many have you drawn in that time frame?
 
Pretty funny comment coming from a fly fisherman seeings how their the reason the state is appealing the blm purchase below grey reef...
 
We live in such an entitled society.

A Wyoming resident who can buy an over the counter deer and elk tag every year is complaining that not drawing a coveted LQ elk tag is “the short end of the stick”

Wyoflythrower, you must be from Colorado.

El Dumbo, how does your home state treat NR? Let me guess Utah or back east. It's obvious you're upset because you might not have it as good as you once did in Wyoming. If you don't like it, I hear the Utah and Arizona forum is worth reading. Last I checked Wyoming doesn't have any road blocks keeping people like you from moving here, but I sure wish they did.
 
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I haven't drawn an elk tag in 9 years and for 8 of those years I've applied in areas that very from 24-30% that's a pretty short end of the stick I'd say

If only residents had a point system it would make everything better...

Sorry Bookhead, had to Troll a bit on that.
 
How many have you drawn in that time frame?
I lived in Wyoming for 36 years but relocated in 2016 for work. I didn’t draw a single LQ tag while I was a resident and left the state with a dozen moose and another dozen sheep points but didn’t once think I needed more or had gotten the short end of the stick.
 
I lived in Wyoming for 36 years but relocated in 2016 for work. I didn’t draw a single LQ tag while I was a resident and left the state with a dozen moose and another dozen sheep points but didn’t once think I needed more or had gotten the short end of the stick.
Congrats sounds like a hell of a hunting career
 
I lived in Wyoming for 36 years but relocated in 2016 for work. I didn’t draw a single LQ tag while I was a resident and left the state with a dozen moose and another dozen sheep points but didn’t once think I needed more or had gotten the short end of the stick.

Maybe it didn't bother you as much as some because you were throwing flies instead of bullets. To some it matters, others not so much.
 
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Wyoflythrower, you must be from Colorado.

El Dumbo, how does your home state treat NR? Let me guess Utah or back east. It's obvious you're upset because you might not have it as good as you once did in Wyoming. If you don't like it, I hear the Utah and Arizona forum is worth reading. Last I checked Wyoming doesn't have any road blocks keeping people like you from moving here, but I sure
Maybe it didn't bother you as much as some because you were throwing flies instead of bullets. To some it matter, others not so much.
Your right - Hunting forum names are a great way to tell a lot about a person. Someone with the name “grosventrehunter” must be the best and most dedicated hunter. He is definitely one of the most entitled and whiny Wyoming residents. My guess is your family has less than 50 years in the state, I don’t know many Wyoming residents with this type of me only attitude. Good luck hunting forum warrior ?
 
Your right - Hunting forum names are a great way to tell a lot about a person. Someone with the name “grosventrehunter” must be the best and most dedicated hunter. He is definitely one of the most entitled and whiny Wyoming residents. My guess is your family has less than 50 years in the state, I don’t know many Wyoming residents with this type of me only attitude. Good luck hunting forum warrior ?

Or maybe it means I hunt in the Gros Ventre Range. Smart you're not......
 
I haven't drawn an elk tag in 9 years and for 8 of those years I've applied in areas that very from 24-30% that's a pretty short end of the stick I'd say
Assuming 25% odds and 8 years, you should have drawn 2 tags, but since the odds are unique to every year this happens where some draw more than 2 and others less than 2.

The better question is the 3 year waiting period and how it would change your odds.

Assuming there are 25 resident tags in your unit and 100 people apply annually to give you that 25% odds. If you can't apply until the 4th year after drawing then you are taking away 75 successful applicants from the pool so the 25 left draw in that 4th year at 100% drawing odds....then every year after that the next 25 draw that are eligible and this goes on forever where you draw every 4th year. I guess that is the basis for waiting periods. The problem will be when people shift from the higher demand areas like Unit 100 to the lower demand areas that are now easier to draw. Seems like preference points are similar to waiting periods, maybe some sort of bonus point for every year you don't draw is the most fair system. Only give out a bonus point for when you actually apply for a tag and don't charge for it. The next year you get 1 extra chance for each bonus point.
 
My goodness, for a state with the lowest human population, and a bountiful game resource, the Wyoming residents really think they’re getting the short end of the deal with opportunity.

It blows my mind, when compared to every other western state. SMH
Which part triggered you? Was it my concern about having people on waiting periods applying for SD units. Seems like a legit concern if you are only putting in for SD hunts.

Was it my HD 90/10 comment? You know, like most western states. WY will still offer numerous units with current splits if this proposal passes. So, I guess not like most western states.

Was it my statement about being against waiting periods? With low population and bountiful game, your words, why would we need a waiting period?

JM's statement above is on the mark regarding waiting periods. Look at elk areas 16, 7, 24, 25, 31, 32, 45, 100, 124 or deer areas 128, 34, 87, 89, 100, 119, 130, 102 draw odds if you think having two years of hunters out at any one time will have any noticeable difference.
 
They’re the most vocal, entitled group I have seen. My god, if they moved to Nevada, Arizona, New Mexico, what would they do, if they didn’t get 1 SINGLE tag, in a given year……

They’d probably line up on the highest bridge, and jump off…..
If we moved to AZ, NV, and NM we would have better mental health with no wind, good year around weather, and better paying jobs. The only thing getting me on the bridge would be the high population of people.
 
If we moved to AZ, NV, and NM we would have better mental health with no wind, good year around weather, and better paying jobs. The only thing getting me on the bridge would be the high population of people.
All 500K of you guys should move out of state, and then let’s lobby for 100% Non resident quota….. Win, Win….. Win

I’m not triggered at all, BTW. It’s just an observation from someone that applies and hunts a lot of different western states. Wyoming is my favorite, btw….. I’m B!tching and moaning, because I don’t want to make the barrier to entry tougher… Ya know….. Selfish
 
Leave it to a government committee to create problems where none exist.
The driving force are the locals around these high demand units. They also have the ear of the used car salesman on the task force.
Once draw odds drop below 10% there simply are not enough tags for everyone to have one in their lifetime. A three year waiting period will have a ZERO effect on draw odds. Take area 100 elk for example: this year's draw odds show that even if you made 100 type 1 a once in a lifetime tag there are 33 years of applicants to cycle through. For a mule deer 128 type 1 there were 51 years of applicants for every tag.
If we Wyoming residents aren't careful, this task force has the ability to drastically alter what is the most accessible resident hunting opportunities anywhere.
 
I think it is silly to battle over TF suggestions. Believe it or not there may be other suggestions that actually make more sense and will benefit a large majority of hunters on each end of the debate spectrum. Have any of you ever heard of compromise?

Why have a 30% min for a waiting period? Why not a 3 year wait if any limited type 1 or 2 tags are drawn? This would likely put less draw pressure on all units across the board. Easy draw units would be even easier to draw and tough draw units would be relatively easier to draw. Since every hunter that draws a tag won't be applying.....across the board there would be fewer applicants applying for tags for all limited units.

Another option that is a compromise is a 1 or 2 year rather than a 3 year wait? A 1 or 2 year wait isn't squat and would offer a little better draw odds especially if the waiting period is for all limited units.

A compromise would be a 1 or 2 year waiting period in all limited units. This would make easy draw units a chunk easier to draw and tough draw odds units a little easier to draw.

Obviously for deer and elk many Wyo res hunt general units when they don't draw limited tags. Draw odds for antelope are good to excellent in most units for Wyo res so I really don't see a need for a waiting period for antelope. I'm sure a lot of res will complain if they can't hunt buck antelope every year?

These are just a couple examples where tweaking the system a little may actually increase draw odds for hunters that tend to have poor luck drawing random draw tags. I'm sure there are more suggestions that make sense than all the worthless name calling and battling back and forth?
 
I agree that the TF current proposal for a waiting period for just the highest demand units will likely backfire and make easier draw units tougher to draw. However, there are benefits if done differently than what the TF proposes.

There is no doubt in my mind that the success for drawing tags for Wyo res will be spread out over more residents that haven't previously drawn limited tags if done correctly....that is exactly what the system is intended to do!

The TF proposal for waiting periods for just the highest demand units definitely has it flaws. It's not set in stone how many years for waiting or for which limited units. I really think a 1 or 2 year wait is a viable option that is somewhat of a compromise worth considering. Those that draw limited tags will only wait a short period of time. If all limited tags have a 1 or 2 year wait it makes sense that there will be a lot more guys waiting than if only a handful of guys that draw highly limited units are waiting 3 years.

Waiting periods offer those that don't draw tags in any given year additional tags that potentially could be issued to the same guy that drew the year or 2 before. Spreading out opportunity for those that haven't drawn...your draw odds as Wyo res will improve considerably for all but the toughest units to draw....especially if all LE units require a short wait.

For me, Founder, and others that are nonres that can point share with others a waiting period is actually a bad idea because we no longer will draw higher demand tags as often. I'm sure Buzz, JM, and others would be totally excited about that idea!

Just about every unit in Wyo for nonres deer, elk, and antelope has worse than 30% or less draw odds. Just about every nonres tag draw will require a waiting period. With 90/10 and other nonres cuts it will take even longer to draw 1 tag. Also, for nonres there are so few tags issued that 1 or 2 fewer nonres applicants isn't going to have hardly any impact on draw odds. I definitely see a lot more advantages for waiting periods for res vs nonres.

If I was a Wyo res I would be jumping all over the idea of a short waiting period for ALL limited type 1 or 2 tags instead of just 30% or less units. With a little knowledge on draw stats it would be possible to figure out strategies to draw excellent limited tags every year other than the year or 2 outside the waiting period. If you apply for the highest demand units in the state your draw odds likely won't improve much with any system.....also a big flaw in the proposed TF proposal.

Would you rather hunt general deer and elk units the years you don't draw a limited tag or would you rather hunt limited units on a more regular basis? If you are happy Wyo res that enjoys hunting general d/e units than no waiting period needed!

The game changes dramatically for Wyo residents with a 1 or 2 year wait for ALL units vs a 3 year wait for 30% or less draw odd units.

I've lost count of how many Wyo res I've heard ***** every year about their neighbor drawing another limited tag and they haven't drawn for years and years. There is no reason to ***** about not drawing limited tags as Wyo res if you appose waiting periods....they will help you out!
 
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WapitiBob, you were waiting 5 years so you didn't draw a 2nd tag in that time. That's exactly what the waiting period was meant to do.

Everyone's draw odds got worse in Utah if it took more years to draw when you returned.

In Wyo there is no d/e/a pref/bonus pts for Wyo res so everyone has the same chance to draw after the wait. Also in Wyo there are very few Wyo res compared to Utah. Draw odds are pretty darn high for good to excellent units for Wyo. With a short waiting period draw odds will even be better for Wyo res. Comparing Utah or Colo to Wyo isn't exactly equal?
 
It feels like I am the only person seeing the big picture to what is happening to Wyoming.LOL
Residents are fighting over anything they can get to work in there favor. But the Outfitters and landowners Are setting it up slowly but surely the way they want it.You might think that the Non residents are the ones to be ousted.But after they are gone resident DIY is next.
Residents are going to wake up one day and realize they got clobbered by the Outfitters and Landowners.It seems like you are all being channeled narrower and narrower to a cliff.
The old days are over and those of us with younger kids will be lucky to have a place to hunt IF you can get a tag..Our kids will never get the opportunity’s we have had.
 
You know for a fact that that is a bunch of bull Buzz! It isn't even close how many more tags will be available in every unit with a waiting period vs 90/10! I call your bluff and you are absolutely wrong!

Let's use 89 deer as example. There were 42 resident tags issued and only 16 total nonres tags issued in 2022. With 90/10 half the nonres tags would be cut so there would only be 8 additional tags available to Wyo res.

There were 42 resident tags issued in 2022 so 42 residents would be sitting out in year 1 of the waiting period. That is 42 additional tags available to residents with a waiting period vs only 8 with 90/10. In year 3 of the waiting period there would be 3 x 42 = 126 resident tags available with a 3 year waiting period while there would only 24 additional tags with 90/10.

There would be 5x more tags available for Wyo res in year 3 of the waiting period vs 90/10 in unit 87 alone. Do you need more examples? I can put an entire chart together to show you the striking differences!

If the Task Force really wants to know they can add up how many total resident vs nonres type 1 and 2 tags were issued in 2022. If they want to look at 30% or less draw odd units they have those numbers in front of them as well. I can guarantee there are literally hundreds more limited tags available to Wyo res with waiting period vs 90/10.
 
There would be 5x more tags available for Wyo res in year 3 of the waiting period vs 90/10 in unit 87 alone. Do you need more examples? I can put an entire chart together to show you the striking differences!
If there are 50 tags per year, then there's 50 tags per year. There's no "5x more tags" for WY residents in a three-year period. Draw odds might improve, only if no hunters jump areas. Your statement is simply false.

Let's break 89 down:

2022 draw odds - 5.3% 42/788 Current - 80/20 split
2023 draw odds - 6.3% 50/788 Initial year
2024 draw odds - 6.7% 50/738 2nd year - 1st year out
2025 draw odds - 7.2% 50/688 3rd year - 1/2 out
2026 draw odds - 7.8% 50/638 4th year - 1/2/3 out
2027 draw odds - 7.8% 50/638 5th year - 2/3/4 out -1st back in

Just by adding 8 tags the draws odds go up by 1%.

In conclusion, 1.5% better draw odds with 150 people sitting out. Take my 1.5% draw odds improvement. I would rather roll the dice and have a chance to draw every year.
 
You know for a fact that that is a bunch of bull Buzz! It isn't even close how many more tags will be available in every unit with a waiting period vs 90/10! I call your bluff and you are absolutely wrong!

Let's use 89 deer as example. There were 42 resident tags issued and only 16 total nonres tags issued in 2022. With 90/10 half the nonres tags would be cut so there would only be 8 additional tags available to Wyo res.

There were 42 resident tags issued in 2022 so 42 residents would be sitting out in year 1 of the waiting period. That is 42 additional tags available to residents with a waiting period vs only 8 with 90/10. In year 3 of the waiting period there would be 3 x 42 = 126 resident tags available with a 3 year waiting period while there would only 24 additional tags with 90/10.

There would be 5x more tags available for Wyo res in year 3 of the waiting period vs 90/10 in unit 87 alone. Do you need more examples? I can put an entire chart together to show you the striking differences!

If the Task Force really wants to know they can add up how many total resident vs nonres type 1 and 2 tags were issued in 2022. If they want to look at 30% or less draw odd units they have those numbers in front of them as well. I can guarantee there are literally hundreds more limited tags available to Wyo res with waiting period vs 90/10.
42-tags-x.jpg
 
You know for a fact that that is a bunch of bull Buzz! It isn't even close how many more tags will be available in every unit with a waiting period vs 90/10! I call your bluff and you are absolutely wrong!

Let's use 89 deer as example. There were 42 resident tags issued and only 16 total nonres tags issued in 2022. With 90/10 half the nonres tags would be cut so there would only be 8 additional tags available to Wyo res.

There were 42 resident tags issued in 2022 so 42 residents would be sitting out in year 1 of the waiting period. That is 42 additional tags available to residents with a waiting period vs only 8 with 90/10. In year 3 of the waiting period there would be 3 x 42 = 126 resident tags available with a 3 year waiting period while there would only 24 additional tags with 90/10.

There would be 5x more tags available for Wyo res in year 3 of the waiting period vs 90/10 in unit 87 alone. Do you need more examples? I can put an entire chart together to show you the striking differences!

If the Task Force really wants to know they can add up how many total resident vs nonres type 1 and 2 tags were issued in 2022. If they want to look at 30% or less draw odd units they have those numbers in front of them as well. I can guarantee there are literally hundreds more limited tags available to Wyo res with waiting period vs 90/10.
Your chart would be as worthless as this post.

Waiting periods do not increase resident opportunity, they do he opposite. It takes opportunity away from residents.

What does increase opportunity is giving more total tags each year to Residents.
 
Yep you can twist and turn things as much as you want! Do you want better odds of drawing limited tags with a wait for those that haven’t drawn tags or do you want worse draw odds with 90/10?

Waiting periods dramatically increase the number of tags issued to Wyo res hunters that haven’t drawn a tag vs 90/10. There are 42 hunters that draw 87 tags that have to wait while only 8 additional new tags offered with 90/10. There are 5x more tags available to Wyo res that were unsuccessful vs 90/10. 42-8= 34

34 additional tags to unsuccessful applicants vs 8 tags with 90/10?
 
Yep you can twist and turn things as much as you want! Do you want better odds of drawing limited tags with a wait for those that haven’t drawn tags or do you want worse draw odds with 90/10?

Waiting periods dramatically increase the number of tags issued to Wyo res hunters that haven’t drawn a tag vs 90/10. There are 42 hunters that draw 87 tags that have to wait while only 8 additional new tags offered with 90/10. There are 5x more tags available to Wyo res that were unsuccessful vs 90/10. 42-8= 34

34 additional tags to unsuccessful applicants vs 8 tags with 90/10?
Are you really that dense?

Waiting periods absolutely DO NOT increase the number of tags issued to residents.

If residents receive 80 tags in a given unit this year, 80 next year, and 80 the year after that...guess what Einstein...it's the exact same number of tags issued each year. The number of resident tags does not increase with waiting periods, it's still 80 tags.

However, if 90-10 passes then resident tag numbers increase...meaning more resident tags go to resident hunters.

So, now in the same scenario, residents would get 90 tags instead of 80 with 90-10.

Meaning 30 more tags go to residents over the same 3 year period.

Waiting periods do not increase tag numbers going to residents, period, fact, end of discussion.
 
Yep you can twist and turn things as much as you want! Do you want better odds of drawing limited tags with a wait for those that haven’t drawn tags or do you want worse draw odds with 90/10?

Waiting periods dramatically increase the number of tags issued to Wyo res hunters that haven’t drawn a tag vs 90/10. There are 42 hunters that draw 87 tags that have to wait while only 8 additional new tags offered with 90/10. There are 5x more tags available to Wyo res that were unsuccessful vs 90/10. 42-8= 34

34 additional tags to unsuccessful applicants vs 8 tags with 90/10?
It's been said before, the only way there are more tags available is with 90/10.
 
Now lets look at unit 7 elk.

2022 - 1,004 type 1 res tags
2022 - 166 nonres tags
90/10 - 83 additional tags issued to Wyo res.

1,004 tags issued to Wyo res with a wait that haven't drawn and only 83 additional tags issued with 90/10. That's a 12x increase in number of tags issued to Wyo res that haven't drawn an elk tag with 1 year of waiting compared to 90/10.

1,004 - 83 = 921 additional type 1 unit 7 elk tags issued to Wyo residents that haven't drawn a tag after year 1 wait!

921 tags vs 83 tags.....giant difference!

If you have been applying for a unit 7 type 1 tag for many years without drawing a tag a waiting period would likely significantly benefit you!
 
You are absolutely correct that waiting periods don't offer more tags to Wyo residents. It benefits those that haven't drawn tags! Draw odds aren't even close if you compare waiting periods vs 90/10. If you are a Wyo res that can't seem to luck out and draw tags waiting periods will benefit you compared to 90/10!
 
Now lets look at unit 7 elk.

2022 - 1,004 type 1 res tags
2022 - 166 nonres tags
90/10 - 83 additional tags issued to Wyo res.

1,004 tags issued to Wyo res with a wait that haven't drawn and only 83 additional tags issued with 90/10. That's a 12x increase in number of tags issued to Wyo res that haven't drawn an elk tag with 1 year of waiting compared to 90/10.

1,004 - 83 = 921 additional type 1 unit 7 elk tags issued to Wyo residents that haven't drawn a tag after year 1 wait!

921 tags vs 83 tags.....giant difference!

If you have been applying for a unit 7 type 1 tag for many years without drawing a tag a waiting period would likely significantly benefit you!
You're full of crap! It's the same number of resident tags drawn by residents.

No increase in resident opportunity, fact.
 
You are absolutely correct that waiting periods don't offer more tags to Wyo residents. It benefits those that haven't drawn tags! Draw odds aren't even close if you compare waiting periods vs 90/10. If you are a Wyo res that can't seem to luck out and draw tags waiting periods will benefit you compared to 90/10!
Having more total tags increases resident opportunity...waiting periods do not.

Common sense, which you seem lacking.
 
I never said waiting periods would offer more resident tags. Waiting periods increase draw odds and opportunity for Wyo res that haven't drawn a tag. In all cases draw odds are higher with a waiting period vs the few tags picked up with 90/10 for those that haven't drawn tags.

2022 there were 1,004 Wyo res tags issued with 3,998 applicants in unit 7 type 1.

2022 there were 166 Wyo nonres type 1 tags issued.
83 additional tags issued to Wyo nonres with 90/10.

Wyo res draw odds without 90/10 or waiting period = 25%

1,004 + 83 = 1,087 tags with 90/10 added.
3,998 applicants divided by 1,087 tags = 27% draw odds with 90/10

3,998 - 1,004 = 2,994 applicants with 1 year waiting period.
2,994 applicants divided by 1,004 tags with 1 year waiting period = 34% draw odds after 1 year wait

2,994 - 1,004 = 1,990 applicants with 2 year waiting period.
1,990 divided by 1,004 tags = 50% odds with 2 year wait.

1,990 - 1,004 = 986 applicants with 3 year wait for 1,004 tags. 100% draw odds after 3 year wait!

Unit 7 type 1 bull elk tag:
25% draw odds without 90/10
27% draw odds with 90/10
34% draw odds after 1 year wait
50% draw odds after 2 year wait
100% draw odds after the first 3 years.

Do you want to draw unit 7 type 1 elk? Here you go! A guaranteed tag after the first 3 years or close to the same poor draw odds with a few additional 90/10 tags added! Your neighbor may draw 2 or 3 of these tags and you may draw 0 with the current Wyo res elk draw system!
 
I never said waiting periods would offer more resident tags. Waiting periods increase draw odds and opportunity for Wyo res that haven't drawn a tag. In all cases draw odds are higher with a waiting period vs the few tags picked up with 90/10 for those that haven't drawn tags.

2022 there were 1,004 Wyo res tags issued with 3,998 applicants in unit 7 type 1.

2022 there were 166 Wyo nonres type 1 tags issued.
83 additional tags issued to Wyo nonres with 90/10.

Wyo res draw odds without 90/10 or waiting period = 25%

1,004 + 83 = 1,087 tags with 90/10 added.
3,998 applicants divided by 1,087 tags = 27% draw odds with 90/10

3,998 - 1,004 = 2,994 applicants with 1 year waiting period.
2,994 applicants divided by 1,004 tags with 1 year waiting period = 34% draw odds after 1 year wait

2,994 - 1,004 = 1,990 applicants with 2 year waiting period.
1,990 divided by 1,004 tags = 50% odds with 2 year wait.

1,990 - 1,004 = 986 applicants with 3 year wait for 1,004 tags. 100% draw odds after 3 year wait!

Unit 7 type 1 bull elk tag:
25% draw odds without 90/10
27% draw odds with 90/10
34% draw odds after 1 year wait
50% draw odds after 2 year wait
100% draw odds after the first 3 years.

Do you want to draw unit 7 type 1 elk? Here you go! A guaranteed tag after the first 3 years or close to the same poor draw odds with a few additional 90/10 tags added! Your neighbor may draw 2 or 3 of these tags and you may draw 0 with the current Wyo res elk draw system!
Wrong, you're assuming people will continue to apply for the same areas...won't happen.
 
You know for a fact that that is a bunch of bull Buzz! It isn't even close how many more tags will be available in every unit with a waiting period vs 90/10! I call your bluff and you are absolutely wrong!

Let's use 89 deer as example. There were 42 resident tags issued and only 16 total nonres tags issued in 2022. With 90/10 half the nonres tags would be cut so there would only be 8 additional tags available to Wyo res.

There were 42 resident tags issued in 2022 so 42 residents would be sitting out in year 1 of the waiting period. That is 42 additional tags available to residents with a waiting period vs only 8 with 90/10. In year 3 of the waiting period there would be 3 x 42 = 126 resident tags available with a 3 year waiting period while there would only 24 additional tags with 90/10.

There would be 5x more tags available for Wyo res in year 3 of the waiting period vs 90/10 in unit 87 alone. Do you need more examples? I can put an entire chart together to show you the striking differences!

If the Task Force really wants to know they can add up how many total resident vs nonres type 1 and 2 tags were issued in 2022. If they want to look at 30% or less draw odd units they have those numbers in front of them as well. I can guarantee there are literally hundreds more limited tags available to Wyo res with waiting period vs 90/10.

You're so full of s#%@ Facts are facts jims. You have no credibility.
 
Wrong, you're assuming people will continue to apply for the same areas...won't happen.
This is getting crazy. It is a fact that 90/10 increases resident tags by 12.5%. It is true that waiting periods increase odds for those that did not draw, sort of evens the playing field if you are unlucky. The % increase is variable by unit and could be significant for easier to draw units, but as those odds increase people will change where they apply. If I were a resident and there are general tags available I would be in favor of both 90/10 and 3 year waiting periods. Neither are going to drastically change draw odds, but both will help a bit and could help a good bit on those 30% draw odd areas. I think the big issue is on tags that are greater than 50+% draw odds. Doesn't make sense to wait 3 years for those type of tags.
 
The TF has the same wait period numbers in front of them that I’ve quoted but for every limited d/e/a unit in Wyo. Some of the Wyo guys that posted above may not believe the numbers but it’s reality that Wyo res that don’t draw tags will have much better draw odds with a waiting period.

The TF is also aware that 90/10 increases Wyo res draw odds only slightly but severely cuts opportunity for every nonres hunter and also cuts into the WG&F budget.

As I've been saying all along, Wyo res DIY/OYO hunters better watch their backs because outfitters/landowners will potentially rob Wyo res of more tags than they will ever gain with 90/10! If I was a Wyo res I would be strongly be pushing for things to remain as they are or they may regret what happens!
 
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I keep saying that both res and nonres diy/oyo hunters should align their battle together against the outfitters/landowners. Especially looking at the amount of time, input, and attention the outfitters/landowner members of the task force receive at their meetings.
 
I keep saying that both res and nonres diy/oyo hunters should align their battle together against the outfitters/landowners. Especially looking at the amount of time, input, and attention the outfitters/landowner members of the task force receive at their meetings.

What a joke jims! Now you want to partner with residents. Not too long ago you crawled in bed with WYOGA and spoke poorly of Wyoming residents, but now you want residents to battle with you. I would rather see 90/5/5 then to band with you on anything. You need to quit smoking all that Colorado weed jims....
 
I’m not sure what bad claims I have ever made against Wyo res. I’ve just been against 90/10 from the start. I’m always in favor of diy/oyo hunters as a whole!

You can try all you can to try making me look like a nut case but wait until things bite you in the butt! All I can say is watch your backs Wyo res! It’s obvious by the majority of outfitter/landowner members and interest on the tf and time on discussions at tf meetings the opposition to diy/oyo hunters side! If any compromises take place it likely won’t benefit diy/oyo hunters.

Take a look at what happened in Colo with landowner tags. There was nothing diy/oyo hunters could do to stop it. I hate to say I told you so if forces aren’t joined to battle similar things in Wyo!!!! I give Wyo outfitters credit because they have power and know exactly how to use it. Diy hunters will be the real losers before this is over.
 
Waiting periods won't guarantee anything you're assuming no more different applicants will apply for a given area and that the area will simply run out of eligible applicants after 3 years. That won't be the case. Odds will inevitably bump up a little but there's no way any of these so called "high demand" areas will ever be easy to draw. Sorry jims
 
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Draw odds improve for those that don't draw with a waiting period. If you like poor draw odds and the idea that someone that draws a high demand tag can draw a 2nd or 3rd tag while others are waiting than no waiting periods are ok.

I never said anything about guaranteed tags. Yep, if all limited units were a draw some units would have excellent odds of drawing with waiting periods and much worse draw odds with no waiting period.

It sounds like Wyoming may have lots of new residents moving in. So yes, draw odds will likely bump up with or without out a waiting period since more residents will be moving and applying each year.
 
Draw odds improve for those that don't draw with a waiting period. If you like poor draw odds and the idea that someone that draws a high demand tag can draw a 2nd or 3rd tag while others are waiting than no waiting periods are ok.

I never said anything about guaranteed tags. Yep, if all limited units were a draw some units would have excellent odds of drawing with waiting periods and much worse draw odds with no waiting period.

It sounds like Wyoming may have lots of new residents moving in. So yes, draw odds will likely bump up with or without out a waiting period since more residents will be moving and applying each year.
Wyoming has the slowest growth in the country....between 2010-2020 the population increased by 3.2%.

Probably most of which don't hunt or fish.
 
Draw odds improve for those that don't draw with a waiting period. If you like poor draw odds and the idea that someone that draws a high demand tag can draw a 2nd or 3rd tag while others are waiting than no waiting periods are ok.

I never said anything about guaranteed tags. Yep, if all limited units were a draw some units would have excellent odds of drawing with waiting periods and much worse draw odds with no waiting period.

It sounds like Wyoming may have lots of new residents moving in. So yes, draw odds will likely bump up with or without out a waiting period since more residents will be moving and applying each year.

Are you not the same guy who told everyone on MM and rokslide to support Wyoming Outfitters since they were the voice of the NR. Should we post some old discussions?
 
Go for it! All I said was pretty much that outfitters would lose clients with 90/10. Also, nonres diy/oyo hunters have no members on the task force and outfitters were the only tf members that provide any source of nonres voice.

If Wyo population is growing slowly than that will make waiting periods even better! Also, no worries about res opportunity. How many big game tags did you have last year Buzz..including all your doe and cow tags?
 
So if NR’s would support 90/10 for D/E/A would R’s support not damaging Vehicles with out of state plates at trailheads? Or will they argue that is how it is in all the other western states, why should Wyoming be different?
 
So if NR’s would support 90/10 for D/E/A would R’s support not damaging Vehicles with out of state plates at trailheads? Or will they argue that is how it is in all the other western states, why should Wyoming be different?

I hunted in Wyoming last year and was treated like gold up there by the locals. You saying maybe I got a pass with my Disabled Veteran plates? :unsure:
 
I guess some folks have a hard time with math. When there's 25 to 50 years worth of resident applications stacked up for each tag available, waiting periods will have virtually zero effect on one's ability to draw one of these permits.
 
So if NR’s would support 90/10 for D/E/A would R’s support not damaging Vehicles with out of state plates at trailheads? Or will they argue that is how it is in all the other western states, why should Wyoming be different?
Where is that happening in Wyoming?
 
Where is that happening in Wyoming?

None that I know of. Usually popular trailheads I go to have non residents taking up 3 parking spots. On top of that the next non resident comes in with his truck and trailer and parks so close you can barely get your truck and trailer out.
 
DWalton I agree with you 100% that a waiting period is worthless in units where there are applicants stacked up but that is not the case for Wyo residents in the majority of high demand deer, elk, and antelope units in Wyoming. Waiting periods would benefit nonres odds since there are so many more applicants for so few tags in most units.

I already gave draw stats with waiting periods for some very popular high demand elk and deer tags for residents. Draw odds are pretty incredible for some very good deer and elk units.

Here's an example for Wyo res unit 61 antelope. Obviously not everyone will apply for 61 every year but if you look at the draw odds from 1 year to the next for Wyo res they are pretty stable.

Res tags issued in 2022: 132
Res applicants in 2022: 590
Res draw odds without waiting period: 22%

Res applicants in 2023: 590 - 132 = 458
Res draw odds after 1 year wait = 29%

Res applicants in 2024: 458 - 132 = 326
Res draw odds after 2 year wait = 40%

Res applicants in 2025: 326 - 132 = 194
Res draw odds the 3rd year = 68%

Draw odds without a waiting period: 22%
Draw odds after the 3rd year: 68%

22 vs 68% draw odds is a significant increase in draw odd in only 3 years for one of the best antelope units in Wyoming! Draw odds just about double in only 2 years....pretty amazing!
 
I asked a simple question, wondering if this is a real problem in Wyoming. My feeling are fine and of no concern to you thanks.
HE, must have hurt feelings. He's equating Wyoming residents saying we want 90/10 because other states have it.

"Do Wyoming residents trash NR vehicles at trailheads because they do it in other states?"

Get it?
 
So if NR’s would support 90/10 for D/E/A would R’s support not damaging Vehicles with out of state plates at trailheads? Or will they argue that is how it is in all the other western states, why should Wyoming be different?
I've been parking at Wyoming trail heads since the early 90's with my out of state plates and have yet to have a bad experience with any Resident. I have had a couple conversations with some groups from Wisconsin, and California though. Maybe you pissed off the wrong cowboy?
 
It’s an accepted practice to only screw with guys with Utah plates. Messing with any other state just isn’t ethical
 

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