Now the link is gone

DeerMadness

Long Time Member
Messages
5,352
There was an article that said they have a video of Uvalde policemen using hand sanitizer and running from the gunman. It is already obvious they didn't man up but hand sanitizer usage ? Must be millennials, lol.
 
I saw the video this evening on tv, on CBS and Fox News. The cops snuck down the hall towards the gunman, when he started shooting they ran. Later while they were staging away from the gunman, one of the cops is shown using hand sanitizer from a wall dispenser like he had nothing better to do. Just disgusting and disgraceful. It also showed some cops wanting to move forward and they were stopped by what appeared to be a commander.
 
I saw the video this evening on tv, on CBS and Fox News. The cops snuck down the hall towards the gunman, when he started shooting they ran. Later while they were staging away from the gunman, one of the cops is shown using hand sanitizer from a wall dispenser like he had nothing better to do. Just disgusting and disgraceful. It also showed some cops wanting to move forward and they were stopped by what appeared to be a commander.
That is hard to swallow Gunni. Guys that are sworn to serve and protect didn't step up as warriors against one shooter when little kids are cornered and being cut down. They need to remove every last one and hire all new.
 
That is hard to swallow Gunni. Guys that are sworn to serve and protect didn't step up as warriors against one shooter when little kids are cornered and being cut down. They need to remove every last one and hire all new.
Incompetence!
That’s the best word I can think to describe those cops. But our society seems to foster incompetence these days!
I saw that video clip also. Shameful is another good word.
 
Would like to hear some current or retired cops to comment.
Did you see the video! It pretty much speaks for itself. You can hear shots fired and see the cops running away. Then after running away they are casually standing around like they’re on their break time.
 
There were 91 cops on scene before they went in. It's a disgrace.

There should be charges filed against the cops. Kids were being murdered and there's video of them retreating down a hall and around the corner.
I agree with, that is a disgrace of LEO.
There was probably LEO from other communities around Uvalde that responded and probably a few Border Agents that responded but 91 officers in under an hour seems like alot of LEO For a community of 16000 and other local agencies.
 
Did you see the video! It pretty much speaks for itself. You can hear shots fired and see the cops running away. Then after running away they are casually standing around like they’re on their break time.
No, I didn't see it. I've figured the outcome before seeing the video. You have to remember that not all cops are brave.

This is why I want cops to comment on this. Basically want to hear their excuses...
 
I know 95+%& of all law enforcement are willing to lay their life on the line, I do not believe this is about law enforcement being scared.
Their is a much bigger story behind this.
 
@Bigfoot 1 bounced from here as soon as the stories started coming out about the cops being giant vaginas. He was posting like a madman before that and was trying to defend the cops.
 
Sounds like a bunch of the regular MM tuffies should sign up to become cops.
I'd like to think most guys here would've done far more than the cops did to save those kid's lives.

These school shooters are cowards, as soon as somebody shoots back they tend to take one to the temple. That's why the accepted protocol now is to attack immediately, not even wait for backup.

We all remember the disgraced Parkland cop that hid from the shooter, well, we've got seven dozen of them in Texas that did the same thing.

I'm honestly amazed that not a single cop told his chain of command to shoot him in the back as he rushed into the fight. It would've inspired others to follow suit. There's a mom that ran in on her own to get her kids out and the cops did nothing but put her in handcuffs.
 
I'd like to think most guys here would've done far more than the cops did to save those kid's lives.

These school shooters are cowards, as soon as somebody shoots back they tend to take one to the temple. That's why the accepted protocol now is to attack immediately, not even wait for backup.

We all remember the disgraced Parkland cop that hid from the shooter, well, we've got seven dozen of them in Texas that did the same thing.

I'm honestly amazed that not a single cop told his chain of command to shoot him in the back as he rushed into the fight. It would've inspired others to follow suit. There's a mom that ran in on her own to get her kids out and the cops did nothing but put her in handcuffs.
Exactly, and calling us tuffies? Ok, I would rather lose my life trying to save kids than feel like a loser for not doing it. Those kids will always wonder why the LEO didn't rescue them. Now I'm not saying everyone is some John Wayne saying that daylight is burning but come on man, that is not what we want to hear. Even if the libs are trying to defend the cops as they were just kids. Now if it was a group of Antifa I would have sat with binos and popcorn.
Who the heck is BuzzH anyway ? Not someone I would like to hang out with. Even the dude doesn't act like that or is it MM troll day ?
Hmmm...I saw a trucker getting ready to beat his girlfriend and dared him to go ahead. I didnt know if he was tougher than me but wasn't going to stand for it. But sure, I'm just an MM tuffie...lmao
 
Exactly, and calling us tuffies? Ok, I would rather lose my life trying to save kids than feel like a loser for not doing it. Those kids will always wonder why the LEO didn't rescue them. Now I'm not saying everyone is some John Wayne saying that daylight is burning but come on man, that is not what we want to hear. Even if the libs are trying to defend the cops as they were just kids. Now if it was a group of Antifa I would have sat with binos and popcorn.
Who the heck is BuzzH anyway ? Not someone I would like to hang out with. Even the dude doesn't act like that or is it MM troll day ?
Hmmm...I saw a trucker getting ready to beat his girlfriend and dared him to go ahead. I didnt know if he was tougher than me but wasn't going to stand for it. But sure, I'm just an MM tuffie...lmao
Police force is hiring, probably going to be some open positions in Texas here soon.

If you need help with your application let me know.
 
I'd like to think most guys here would've done far more than the cops did to save those kid's lives.

These school shooters are cowards, as soon as somebody shoots back they tend to take one to the temple. That's why the accepted protocol now is to attack immediately, not even wait for backup.

We all remember the disgraced Parkland cop that hid from the shooter, well, we've got seven dozen of them in Texas that did the same thing.

I'm honestly amazed that not a single cop told his chain of command to shoot him in the back as he rushed into the fight. It would've inspired others to follow suit. There's a mom that ran in on her own to get her kids out and the cops did nothing but put her in handcuffs.
Think you should study up on some of these mass shooters, they know they aren't going home.

That's a big advantage over someone that wants to.

Fire the cops, don't care one way or the other.

I'm sure there will be a line out the door of qualified applicants to take those positions for crap wages. I'm sure that whopping 54-63k a year will get you a regular John Wayne or Chuck Norris.
 
Last edited:
Think you should study up on some of these mass shooters,
Is the FBI Active Shooter Quick Reference Guide good enough?

Screenshot_20220713-173211_Drive.jpg
 
No, it's not.

What about the other 44%?

What about the initial training for leo's? Continued training? Quality of candidates to start with?

Btw, it's a guide, not rules, not regulations.
Haha. I knew you'd come up with another BS response.

I really can't figure out why you even keep coming back to MM, you clearly don't enjoy yourself. Or maybe this is just your typical attitude and so MM is no different than the rest of your life. Either way, good luck with that.
 
If you think this event in particular is about wages you're wrong.
Right because it's worth getting shot for 54k a year. It's great to think of other people's kids, but what about their kids when their dad doesn't come home? Who's going to address that? Their kids won't have a father and the department and tax payers will do the absolute minimum for the widow and families, seen it. I know, they can just start a GoFundMe campaign to help the widow and kids. WAFJ.

Right, because you're going to attract the best people when someone can make more at Walmart through their college2career program.

You're naive to believe you're attracting dedicated employees at $54k a year.
 
Haha. I knew you'd come up with another BS response.

I really can't figure out why you even keep coming back to MM, you clearly don't enjoy yourself. Or maybe this is just your typical attitude and so MM is no different than the rest of your life. Either way, good luck with that.
Try jumping into reality. When was the last time you've seen how employees who die in service are treated? How their families are taken care of?

Went through it less than 6 months ago, it's horseshit, and shameful.
 
Buzz, you have kids? mtmuley
Do you want to come home to yours at the end of your work day? Yeah, most others do too. I'm positive you care more about your kids than the neighbor kids down the road, and rightfully so.

Difference is your ass isn't on the line for 54k a year.
 
Last edited:
Money doesn't buy courage. Those 90+ cops got to go home to their families. The murdered children didn't.
Investing in your employees with salary, survivor benefits, more training, and assurances they don't have to file Congressional inquiries to get those benefits surely make decisions easier when it matters most.

If you think those things aren't thought about prior to and during these things, you'd be dead wrong.
 
Right because it's worth getting shot for 54k a year. It's great to think of other people's kids, but what about their kids when their dad doesn't come home? Who's going to address that? Their kids won't have a father and the department and tax payers will do the absolute minimum for the widow and families, seen it. I know, they can just start a GoFundMe campaign to help the widow and kids. WAFJ.

Right, because you're going to attract the best people when someone can make more at Walmart through their college2career program.

You're naive to believe you're attracting dedicated employees at $54k a year.
I have a friend served 30 plus years in the Special Forces. When he retired back during the Iraqi war the military contractors was lined up to hire him. He told them he never did it for the money and he will never do it for the money.
Let that sink in dumb @$$.
 
I have a friend served 30 plus years in the Special Forces. When he retired back during the Iraqi war the military contractors was lined up to hire him. He told them he never did it for the money and he will never do it for the money.
Let that sink in dumb @$$.
That’s a touching story, really is. But you didn’t finish it. Did he take the job?
 
I have a friend served 30 plus years in the Special Forces. When he retired back during the Iraqi war the military contractors was lined up to hire him. He told them he never did it for the money and he will never do it for the money.
Let that sink in dumb @$$.
Your buddy isn't everyone. How many of those Uvalde cops are retired special forces? Let that sink in dumb@$$.

Do you think special forces get more or less training than an Uvalde police officer? Better or worse equipment? Might want to let that sink in too.

Aardvarks and apples.
 
Your buddy isn't everyone. How many of those Uvalde cops are retired special forces? Let that sink in dumb@$$.

Do you think special forces get more or less training than an Uvalde police officer? Better or worse equipment? Might want to let that sink in too.

Aardvarks and apples.

Some run into danger while others (buzzh) run out.
 
Some run into danger while others (buzzh) run out.
That's correct, and the things I pointed out to you determine a lot of that.

Also, I'm not a cop so won't pretend to know how they should respond in every situation like the MM tuffie crowd and an FBI guide. What I do know is that they aren't getting the support they need in many cases, the training they need, the equipment they need, the cohesion they need, the assurance their families are going to be taken care of if they're killed on duty, etc.

BTW, you didn't answer my questions.
 
Last edited:
Ya, $54K is not a good value for life. If they paid the officers $200K would that make it worth it? $1M? We all know the answer- it's not about the money.

The point is- the police are expected to put their lives on the line, when necessary. Firemen too. It's a CRUCIAL PART OF THE JOB.

I respect the police, firefighters and first responders. I believe in this case that the LEADER failed, and many of those officers just simply didn't have the experience/initiative to override a massively poor decision by the leader. If they had been told to go in, they would have.
 
That's correct, and the things I pointed out to you determine a lot of that.

Also, I'm not a cop so won't pretend to know how they should respond in every situation like the MM tuffie crowd and an FBI guide. What I do know is that they aren't getting the support they need in many cases, the training they need, the equipment they need, the cohesion they need, the assurance their families are going to be taken care of if they're killed on duty, etc.

BTW, you didn't answer my questions.
91 LEO on scene in under an hour plenty of training and equipment.
They had sufficient equipment and training in the first 10 minutes of the incident to over take a sniveling snot nosed kid.

415 Firefighter's and LEO made the decision on 911.
 
Ya, $54K is not a good value for life. If they paid the officers $200K would that make it worth it? $1M? We all know the answer- it's not about the money.

The point is- the police are expected to put their lives on the line, when necessary. Firemen too. It's a CRUCIAL PART OF THE JOB.

I respect the police, firefighters and first responders. I believe in this case that the LEADER failed, and many of those officers just simply didn't have the experience/initiative to override a massively poor decision by the leader. If they had been told to go, they would have.
For the record, I agree with you regarding the failure of Leadership.

Is it an unrealistic expectation for them to also get the proper and continual training they need? Assurance of their families being taken care of if they die in service? More experience working as a team? Better equipment?

The pay, benefits, equipment, and training or a lack-there-of are a reflection of how they're valued. How an employee is valued is something they think about all the time, including crunch time.

There is a systematic failure of managers recognizing these things, both in how they treat their employees and who they promote.

Its really too bad and its not limited to the first responders.

There's one brain housing on this thread saying they should have charges filed against them. I can understand written up, fired maybe...but charged for a crime?

We wonder why its hard to find high quality first responders?

Its a real mystery, I can't imagine why.
 
91 LEO on scene in under an hour plenty of training and equipment.
They had sufficient equipment and training in the first 10 minutes of the incident to over take a sniveling snot nosed kid.

415 Firefighter's and LEO made the decision on 911.
Prove it, that they had the training and equipment they needed, or that they even knew it was a "snot nosed kid".

They didn't...and definitely didn't know the age of the shooter.

How do you determine what is "plenty" of training? What equipment is "plenty"?

Oh, and BTW, the surviving first responders for 911 had to fight like hell to get benefits for their families.

Keeping it classy...good thing a no good lib was willing to stick his neck out to FORCE congress to do what they should.

 
Last edited:
Prove it, that they had the training and equipment they needed, or that they even knew it was a "snot nosed kid".

They didn't...and definitely didn't know the age of the shooter.

How do you determine what is "plenty" of training? What equipment is "plenty"?

Oh, and BTW, the surviving first responders for 911 had to fight like hell to get benefits for their families.

Keeping it classy...good thing a no good lib was willing to stick his neck out to FORCE congress to do what they should.

So extraordinary #'s of Police with many that had training even if they had some with little isn't enough to save kids in an active shooter situation that lasts for over an hour ?
That was enough time to go to the gym and wash the excrement out of their pants and dry them and still get in and respond with force.
The sad part is that this is the start of many , many more killings. It isn't going to magically stop. Maybe the whole education system will change. It is astoundingly sad how things have deteriorated since Obummer got voted in as that is when people were encouraged to riot. They are trying to indict Trump but Obummer had a free pass to approve of riots.
 
So extraordinary #'s of Police with many that had training even if they had some with little isn't enough to save kids in an active shooter situation that lasts for over an hour ?
That was enough time to go to the gym and wash the excrement out of their pants and dry them and still get in and respond with force.
The sad part is that this is the start of many , many more killings. It isn't going to magically stop. Maybe the whole education system will change. It is astoundingly sad how things have deteriorated since Obummer got voted in as that is when people were encouraged to riot. They are trying to indict Trump but Obummer had a free pass to approve of riots.
When your argument devolves to placing the blame on a President that is 6+ years out of office, well...not really much more to talk about it. Not even a decent red herring.

That doesn't change the facts that first responders were treated like total chit for their response to 9/11. If we know that's a fact, how do you think the average first responder is going to be treated in podunk Texas? Podunk Wyoming? Podunk Utah?

Make no mistake, they pay attention to how their counterparts are treated.

I'm shocked anyone wants the job.
 
Man, nobody gets the money they deserve. Police for sure. But to hold that up as an excuse not to do the job? In the most crucial moment of all? Sorry- that attitude is EXACTLY what is wrong in this country.

Ya, I'll vote to pay police more- if they fire the ones Buzz claims refused to go in because of money.
 
Man, nobody gets the money they deserve. Police for sure. But to hold that up as an excuse not to do the job? In the most crucial moment of all? Sorry- that attitude is EXACTLY what is wrong in this country.

Ya, I'll vote to pay police more- if they fire the ones Buzz claims refused to go in because of money.
What exactly is WRONG is that first responders families are left to fend for themselves when they're killed or injured doing their jobs.

BTW, you would be in the minority of folks willing to pay more for increased benefits, training, etc. for first responders.

Go to your next city council meeting regarding increasing first responder pay, paying for training, paying for equipment...buckle up, it's going to be bumpy.
 
When your argument devolves to placing the blame on a President that is 6+ years out of office, well...not really much more to talk about it. Not even a decent red herring.

That doesn't change the facts that first responders were treated like total chit for their response to 9/11. If we know that's a fact, how do you think the average first responder is going to be treated in podunk Texas? Podunk Wyoming? Podunk Utah?

Make no mistake, they pay attention to how their counterparts are treated.

I'm shocked anyone wants the job.
If thats the truth, that the uvalde cops let the nine year olds get visciously destroyed by pure evil while dozens of these uvalde cops stood down within earshot of the massacre, because of money, that still seems like complete cowardice.

If a guy cant do that job, for any reason, they need to quit posing and gtf outta the way for someone who will do the job properly.

How the hell can you argue against that?

Those dudes could've, at worst, died great heros . Now they will be cowards forever.
 
If this country didn't waste so much money on over paid and un needed feds.....there might be enough money at the local level to protect our kids....

If we didn't pay for the rest of the world's f'ups we could put 2 officer's in Every school in America!

Simple solution is to lock all the doors in schools it will take care of 99% of those shootings just saying!
Or we can blame keep blaming Trump like some of these idiots!
 
If thats the truth, that the uvalde cops let the nine year olds get visciously destroyed by pure evil while dozens of these uvalde cops stood down within earshot of the massacre, because of money, that still seems like complete cowardice.

If a guy cant do that job, for any reason, they need to quit posing and gtf outta the way for someone who will do the job properly.

How the hell can you argue against that?

Those dudes could've, at worst, died great heros . Now they will be cowards forever.
Right, hero's with their families having chit for benefits/support.

I guess they aren't supposed to care about their families they leave behind?

Fire them, I already said I don't care. But, the guys you replace them with are going to realize the same things. That they don't have the support they need.
 
Again- I get the pay grievance issue. But you brought it up in the context of saving those kids lives. That's nuts man, just nuts.
Its not just pay, its how their families suffer and have to fight for basic survivor benefits. How they have to fight for better training, better equipment, more cohesion, better supervision.

Its ridiculous.
 
It was a total 5hit show. No reasonable amount of money will magically make a scared person brave. People don't work that way.


The question I want people to think about isn't from video in the school. It's about the videos outside the school of all the cops facing the parents.

Why do they have fully automatic weapons of war?
 
If we didn't pay for the rest of the world's f'ups we could put 2 officer's in Every school in America!

Simple solution is to lock all the doors in schools it will take care of 99% of those shootings just saying!
Or we can blame keep blaming Trump like some of these idiots!
Sounds good.

Good luck getting congress to stop correcting the world's problems AND paying for 2 officers in every school in America.

I've yet to read a single comment on this board someone stating they're willing to pay more taxes, local, state or federal to pay the salaries of 2 cops per every school in America.

Go to your city council and ask them to do it, then try to pass a bill to increase taxes to pay for it.

Good luck with that.
 
Last edited:
It was a total 5hit show. No reasonable amount of money will magically make a scared person brave. People don't work that way.


The question I want people to think about isn't from video in the school. It's about the videos outside the school of all the cops facing the parents.

Why do they have fully automatic weapons of war?
Don't disagree with you regarding paragraph 1 and 2.

The reason they have weapons of war, is because their adversaries have the same thing. Just a guess?

Would giving them muzzleloaders make you feel better?
 
Its not just pay, its how their families suffer and have to fight for basic survivor benefits. How they have to fight for better training, better equipment, more cohesion, better supervision.

Its ridiculous.
Got it. I'm sure those sufferings were good enough reasons for people paid to do a critical job to NOT do that job: save kid's lives. Uh huh.

Again- I'm holding onto the belief that leadership totally messed up, and those men would have put aside their sufferings to do the right thing. I just don't buy it that so many LEOs were upset they didn't get pay/benefits/training/cohesion/whatever and decided to stand down. No way...
 
Sounds good.

Good luck getting congress to stop correcting the world's problems AND paying for 2 officers in every school in America.

I've yet to read a single comment on this board someone stating they're willing to pay more taxes, both local, state or federal to pay the salaries of 2 cops per every school in America.

Go to your city council and ask them to do it, then try to pass a bill to increase taxes to pay for it.

Good luck with that.
The 40 billion biden just gave away would pay for it bud!
 
Got it. I'm sure those sufferings were good enough reasons for people paid to do a critical job to NOT do that job: save kid's lives. Uh huh.

Again- I'm holding onto the belief that leadership totally messed up, and those men would have put aside their sufferings to do the right thing. I just don't buy it that so many LEOs were upset they didn't get pay/benefits/training/cohesion/whatever and decided to stand down. No way...
Correct, not the only thing, but certainly that does drive decisions. I'm sure they were thinking about their own families and own lives, which is criminal enough they should have charges filed against them.

Talk about nuts.
 
When your argument devolves to placing the blame on a President that is 6+ years out of office, well...not really much more to talk about it. Not even a decent red herring.

That doesn't change the facts that first responders were treated like total chit for their response to 9/11. If we know that's a fact, how do you think the average first responder is going to be treated in podunk Texas? Podunk Wyoming? Podunk Utah?

Make no mistake, they pay attention to how their counterparts are treated.

I'm shocked anyone wants the job.
Not a red herring -once you let people behave like that, including the neutrality zones in Seattle and Portland tgey allowed, it teaches a whole new generation that you can get away with violence. My statement about Obummer wasn't a debate part if my post.
When I added that much more killing is coming that was not part of the debate. I did add it because that is part of the problem which I'm going to talk about more often from here on.
Maybe some of those non responding officers were feeling it isn't worth it with the defending the Police efforts and the amount they get harassed when fups like Floyd get put where they need to be.
 
131,000 k-12 schools in the US.

Salary of 54-63K a year, probably another 20K for other benefits, retirement, insurance, etc. times 2.

Actually average costs of pay, benefits and supervision for a police officer is 149K a year. So 298K a year per school.

Firearms, ammo, clothing, vehicles, other equipment expenditures per year...times 2.

Vehicle equipment alone, $40K. They don't give vehicles away these days either.

Still want to make the bet?
 
Last edited:
The reason they have weapons of war, is because their adversaries have the same thing. Just a guess?

Their adversaries do not have the same thing and they just proved an armed murderer isn't their adversary.

Apparently their adversaries are a bunch of screaming crying parents.
 
131,000 k-12 schools in the US.

Salary of 54-63K a year, probably another 20K for other benefits, retirement, insurance, etc. times 2.

Firearms, ammo, clothing, vehicles, other equipment expenditures per year...times 2.

Still want to the make the bet?
$200,000 X 131,000 = $26.2B

What was the bet?
 
131,000 k-12 schools in the US.

Salary of 54-63K a year, probably another 20K for other benefits, retirement, insurance, etc. times 2.

Firearms, ammo, clothing, vehicles, other equipment expenditures per year...times 2.

Still want to the make the bet?
Ya bet me!
 
131,000 k-12 schools in the US.

Salary of 54-63K a year, probably another 20K for other benefits, retirement, insurance, etc. times 2.

Firearms, ammo, clothing, vehicles, other equipment expenditures per year...times 2.

Still want to the make the bet?
If biden cared he could make a change and it has nothing to do with gun laws!
Make the bet!
 
$200,000 X 131,000 = $26.2B

What was the bet?
How about vehicles? How about equipment? Firearms?

The 40B that hornkiller is whining about is a one off expenditure.

Just how long are we expecting these 2 cops per school to be funded? One year? 2 Years? 50 years?

Will there be more or less schools to supply with this stuff in the next decade?

Unbelievable.
 
How about vehicles? How about equipment? Firearms?

The 40B that hornkiller is whining about is a one off expenditure.

Just how long are we expecting these 2 cops per school to be funded? One year? 2 Years? 50 years?

Will there be more or less schools to supply with this stuff in the next decade?

Unbelievable.
I just applied your math. That's all. Good night.....
 
Why would we put more cops in schools when 91 of them that were already there would rather hide down the hall than risk their lives defending children?

The cop in Florida did the same thing.

If there were no cops in Texas, the parents would've grabbed their own guns and ended it.

They sure as hell would've gone in the school, we saw some of them do it anyway.
 
Keep doing your math like biden buzz!
Your president sucks!
Good night buzz!
He's your president as well.

I was just curious, if 2 officers per school was/is such a great idea, I wonder why there was inaction in 2018 after the Parkland shooting to push that agenda?

Please remind me who the President was again in 2018? Guess he just didn't care about school kids.

Yeah, I know... inconvenient.
 
Why would we put more cops in schools when 91 of them that were already there would rather hide down the hall than risk their lives defending children?

The cop in Florida did the same thing.

If there were no cops in Texas, the parents would've grabbed their own guns and ended it.

They sure as hell would've gone in the school, we saw some of them do it anyway.
Oh, so now its defund the police and get rid of them.

Sounds reasonable.

Where have we heard that "logic" before?

WOW, just WOW.
 
Oh, so now its defund the police and get rid of them.

Sounds reasonable.

Where have we heard that "logic" before?

WOW, just WOW.
Don't be an ass. I never said that and you know it.

I merely pointed out that the cops weren't doing their jobs. When people say school shootings will be solved by more police in schools, that hasn't proven to be as foolproof as they lead on.
________________

I gotta ask, Why do you keep coming back to MM? You clearly don't enjoy it. You're angry all the time and have nothing positive to say. So why keep subjecting yourself to it? It makes no sense. Unless, of course, you're like this in your everyday life and don't even notice your attitude anymore.
 
22 years on the bricks COLO LE here. I RESIGNED 04/15/2018... "Columbine" Debrief should have went in sooner. Park County should have went in sooner.... on and on...our and the neighboring agency's policy was/ is first 2 guys on scene "Direct to threat"...it gets deeper coms.staging...bla bla trained whole school and community evacuate to "here"on and on we did school shooting/incident every year found flaws every time some of our fixes caused more flaws..end of the day...first two guys DIRECT TO THREAT..STOP THREAT..if they fail next guys can use their body's for cover...it's a mind set.....did not watch any TX video not gonna. We trained "Direct to threat" knowing that we would be criticized and blamed for that out come too..I would not recommend a LE career to any one... Local agency not mine is a 17 man department they have 6....last hiring only 2 out of 7 passed written...those 2 were ******.....world's broken guys....carry every day every where...and have a long gun in the truck..
 
22 years on the bricks COLO LE here. I RESIGNED 04/15/2018... "Columbine" Debrief should have went in sooner. Park County should have went in sooner.... on and on...our and the neighboring agency's policy was/ is first 2 guys on scene "Direct to threat"...it gets deeper coms.staging...bla bla trained whole school and community evacuate to "here"on and on we did school shooting/incident every year found flaws every time some of our fixes caused more flaws..end of the day...first two guys DIRECT TO THREAT..STOP THREAT..if they fail next guys can use their body's for cover...it's a mind set.....did not watch any TX video not gonna. We trained "Direct to threat" knowing that we would be criticized and blamed for that out come too..I would not recommend a LE career to any one... Local agency not mine is a 17 man department they have 6....last hiring only 2 out of 7 passed written...those 2 were ******.....world's broken guys....carry every day every where...and have a long gun in the truck..
God bless you Tomichi.....I am afraid you are right
 
Don't be an ass. I never said that and you know it.

I merely pointed out that the cops weren't doing their jobs. When people say school shootings will be solved by more police in schools, that hasn't proven to be as foolproof as they lead on.
________________

I gotta ask, Why do you keep coming back to MM? You clearly don't enjoy it. You're angry all the time and have nothing positive to say. So why keep subjecting yourself to it? It makes no sense. Unless, of course, you're like this in your everyday life and don't even notice your attitude anymore.
I think you need to read your post again.

I'm not angry at all, just pointing out hypocrisy in the echo chamber.
 
I think you need to read your post again.

I'm not angry at all, just pointing out hypocrisy in the echo chamber.
You go reread it. I never said defund and "get rid of," you made that up. I said cops haven't proven to be the savior some people say and gave 92 examples of cops NOT DOING THEIR JOBS while children were gunned down hiding behind their desks.

I also said the parents would've gone in on their own if police weren't there, which is verified by the videos of parents trying to get in the door while the police handcuffed them to prevent it. The police are on the record saying they had to keep parents out. Some parents escaped and went in the school anyway.

At least the cops had their hand sanitizer, backboards, and latex gloves though. Next time they can just wait for more youth-sized body bags.

I stand by it... the cops were wrong. Everybody admits it except you.

PS. Are you aware there was a cop who was standing in the hall outside where his daughter was killed?

Screenshot_20220713-180512_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
Last edited:
You go reread it. I never said defund and "get rid of," you made that up. I said cops haven't proven to be the savior some people say and gave 92 examples of cops NOT DOING THEIR JOBS while children were gunned down hiding behind their desks.

I also said the parents would've gone in on their own if police weren't there, which is verified by the videos of parents trying to get in the door while the police handcuffed them to prevent it. The police are on the record saying they had to keep parents out. Some parents escaped and went in the school anyway.

PS. Are you aware there was a cop who was standing in the hall outside where his daughter was killed?

View attachment 81058
Not what you said.

"If there were no cops in Texas, the parents would've grabbed their own guns and ended it".

According to you, Texas doesn't need cops. Parents with guns would be just fine. Any other States where you think cops aren't needed and parents with guns is all that's needed?

Armed parents in school board meetings would be a real hoot.
 
22 years on the bricks COLO LE here. I RESIGNED 04/15/2018... "Columbine" Debrief should have went in sooner. Park County should have went in sooner.... on and on...our and the neighboring agency's policy was/ is first 2 guys on scene "Direct to threat"...it gets deeper coms.staging...bla bla trained whole school and community evacuate to "here"on and on we did school shooting/incident every year found flaws every time some of our fixes caused more flaws..end of the day...first two guys DIRECT TO THREAT..STOP THREAT..if they fail next guys can use their body's for cover...it's a mind set.....did not watch any TX video not gonna. We trained "Direct to threat" knowing that we would be criticized and blamed for that out come too..I would not recommend a LE career to any one... Local agency not mine is a 17 man department they have 6....last hiring only 2 out of 7 passed written...those 2 were ******.....world's broken guys....carry every day every where...and have a long gun in the truck..
Thanks for your service
 
Not what you said.

"If there were no cops in Texas, the parents would've grabbed their own guns and ended it".

According to you, Texas doesn't need cops. Parents with guns would be just fine. Any other States where you think cops aren't needed and parents with guns is all that's needed?

Armed parents in school board meetings would be a real hoot.
In post 15 I referred to the cop in Parkland as "Parkland." Clearly I was referring to the incident and not the city. If I say Columbine, I'm referring to the incident and not the flowering plant. If I say Texas, I'm referring to the incident and not the state. Good hell you struggle, no wonder you're so angry. It's gotta be frustrating.

You tried to justify the cop's delay by their poor pay. You even asked people if they loved their own kids more than the kids down the street. I proved that wrong with the horrible reality of a cop whose daughter was killed in the classroom.

Are you aware there was another cop in the school who received a text from his wife that she was shot and dying. She was a teacher killed there. Here's the screenshot of him receiving the text.

Screenshot_20220713-221328_Samsung Internet.jpg



He attempted to intervene but was disarmed and removed from the building by other officers.

The President of Texas Police Chiefs Association disagrees with everything you've said, "I believe that the training is very clear on what we are supposed to do. Even a single officer has the responsibility to go stop the killing. And that did not happen." Holding back in this case, "was not the right decision and the one that I'm sure they regret as well, and one that we're going to have to assess as a profession."

You can keep peddling the garbage you're spewing but you've convinced nobody and you've given me ample opportunity to point out some of the massive flaws in your argument. Thank you for that.
 
Hikehunt 61 said:
The point is- the police are expected to put their lives on the line, when necessary. Firemen too. It's a CRUCIAL PART OF THE JOB.
_____________________________________________________________________
I hate to tell you this, but there is a U.S. Supreme Court decision that states a officer is not required to endanger his life for the protection of an individual.
That said, it is my understanding that there were officers there that wanted to go in when they heard shots being fired. It appears that a ranking officer on scene held them back with a direct order not to rush the suspect thinking it was a barricaded suspect holding hostages. That ranking officer must bear the responsibility that he screwed up big time and children died because of it.
I was a SWATT sniper at my dept. and we had a rule if the suspect holding hostages fired one shot or more, we were to force entry and use what force was needed to overcome his resistance. In plain English, kick the door and go in and kill the S.O.B.
Last I heard the FBI SWATT has that same rule.
RELH
 
In post 15 I referred to the cop in Parkland as "Parkland." Clearly I was referring to the incident and not the city. If I say Columbine, I'm referring to the incident and not the flowering plant. If I say Texas, I'm referring to the incident and not the state. Good hell you struggle, no wonder you're so angry. It's gotta be frustrating.

You tried to justify the cop's delay by their poor pay. You even asked people if they loved their own kids more than the kids down the street. I proved that wrong with the horrible reality of a cop whose daughter was killed in the classroom.

Are you aware there was another cop in the school who received a text from his wife that she was shot and dying. She was a teacher killed there. Here's the screenshot of him receiving the text.

View attachment 81059


He attempted to intervene but was disarmed and removed from the building by other officers.

The President of Texas Police Chiefs Association disagrees with everything you've said, "I believe that the training is very clear on what we are supposed to do. Even a single officer has the responsibility to go stop the killing. And that did not happen." Holding back in this case, "was not the right decision and the one that I'm sure they regret as well, and one that we're going to have to assess as a profession."

You can keep peddling the garbage you're spewing but you've convinced nobody and you've given me ample opportunity to point out some of the massive flaws in your argument. Thank you for that.
Go read tomichis post again. Anything a cop does, it's wrong.

The EXACT reason why 7 people apply for 11 open positions, only 2 of which pass a written test.

It's because armchair quarterbacks like you are asking them to be indicted and have charges brought against them. That's why nobody wants to be a cop, you want them inducted for both acting, and not acting when things don't go exactly as you think they should.

Glad you're an expert in all things law enforcement, what rank have you achieved, btw?

Not many are going to bother with becoming a cop, putting it all on the line, while people like you ask for them to be indicted for not doing what you aren't willing to do yourself.

Sign up and let everyone armchair your actions, or lack-there-of.

Unbelievable.
 
Hikehunt 61 said:
The point is- the police are expected to put their lives on the line, when necessary. Firemen too. It's a CRUCIAL PART OF THE JOB.
_____________________________________________________________________
I hate to tell you this, but there is a U.S. Supreme Court decision that states a officer is not required to endanger his life for the protection of an individual.
That said, it is my understanding that there were officers there that wanted to go in when they heard shots being fired. It appears that a ranking officer on scene held them back with a direct order not to rush the suspect thinking it was a barricaded suspect holding hostages. That ranking officer must bear the responsibility that he screwed up big time and children died because of it.
I was a SWATT sniper at my dept. and we had a rule if the suspect holding hostages fired one shot or more, we were to force entry and use what force was needed to overcome his resistance. In plain English, kick the door and go in and kill the S.O.B.
Last I heard the FBI SWATT has that same rule.
RELH
RELH,

Serious question.

What happens to a cop that disobeys a direct order of a ranking officer?

What would happen if they disobeyed a direct order and innocent people, say school kids as a random example, were killed because of ignoring that order?

Would the cop or police force be in any kind of trouble?
 
Disobeying a direct order from a superior officer is grounds for that officer to be fired and blackballed from ever working as a cop due to any future background check by another department.
I have a story of what happens sometimes when you cross the line trying to protect a citizen.
Years ago my dispatch was advised by a telephone operator that she had a 911 call come in and line was disconnected. This was before our department had the equipment installed to take 911 calls directly.
Operator gave us the address where the call came from. I responded to scene. No answer to my knock and calling out. Check windows and some rooms had shut curtains and could not see inside. Had dispatch confirm the address with operator. Neighbor next door stated older man resided along in the house and he had not seen him that day. I kicked the door open and cleared all rooms and no body laying on floor as i expected to find.
Closed the front door the best i could and left note explaining what happen and owner could contact our office for payment of having his door repaired.
Next day the old fart called the office, not to get payed for his damaged door, instead he rant and rave how I violated his rights to privacy and if he had been home he would have shot us as we kicked his door in. Later found out the problem was faulty phone equitment that triggered the 911 call.
What do you think I did when I got a similar call about a week later and no one answered the door knock or calling out. That is right I got into my patrol unit and drove away advising dispatch the call was unfounded.
As for the school incident in Texas, i would have done my best to breach the school room door and engaged the shooter even if I had to disobey a direct order. But then again I had a reputation of being somewhat of a rebel with certain superior officers that were unfit to lead.
RELH
 
Hikehunt 61 said:
The point is- the police are expected to put their lives on the line, when necessary. Firemen too. It's a CRUCIAL PART OF THE JOB.
_____________________________________________________________________
I hate to tell you this, but there is a U.S. Supreme Court decision that states a officer is not required to endanger his life for the protection of an individual.
That said, it is my understanding that there were officers there that wanted to go in when they heard shots being fired. It appears that a ranking officer on scene held them back with a direct order not to rush the suspect thinking it was a barricaded suspect holding hostages. That ranking officer must bear the responsibility that he screwed up big time and children died because of it.
I was a SWATT sniper at my dept. and we had a rule if the suspect holding hostages fired one shot or more, we were to force entry and use what force was needed to overcome his resistance. In plain English, kick the door and go in and kill the S.O.B.
Last I heard the FBI SWATT has that same rule.
RELH
You are correct that they do not have a US constitutional duty to do anything. They cannot be sued for not doing their jobs. They can't be sued for not issuing traffic tickets either.

There is a difference between constitution and job description/expectations. You yourself stated rules to that effect. So I still believe it is a crucial part of the job.
 
Right, hero's with their families having chit for benefits/support.

I guess they aren't supposed to care about their families they leave behind?

Fire them, I already said I don't care. But, the guys you replace them with are going to realize the same things. That they don't have the support they need.
None of what you wrote makes any sense.

Are you trying to say those cops are so dumb they couldnt figure out their pay and benefit package until right when they were supposed to square up on the 18 year old kiddie fighter?

C mon man. Youre at joe biden level intelect there.
 
If you ask each and every one of those cops if given the chance to do it over again, what would they do?

I would say they would charge in. Given that, they know they've made a mistake. So to defend cops in THIS particular case is just flat out wrong.
 
The bottom line this is going to bite the Uvalde chief of police in his big A$$. The same chief that tried to down play his actions by stating he did not know he was in charge. Earlier reports indicated he was the one that ordered the officers to stage a containment area and not charge in.
It appears that he may be trying to cover that order up and I look for those officers that lost a kid and wife in the incident to be ticked off enough to dime him out on the investigation that is going on. It seems the city council may have some of that information to request the Chief to resign his position on the city council.
The only thing good that may come out of this incident is that many departments will make changes in their deployment concerning an active shooter to have officers go in and engage the shooter if he is shooting hostages or citizens in the area.
You will see many small departments issue rifles to their officers if they have not done so at this time.
RELH
 
The only thing good that may come out of this incident is that many departments will make changes in their deployment concerning an active shooter to have officers go in and engage the shooter if he is shooting hostages or citizens in the area.

RELH
RELH - Since Columbine, (23 years ago) hasn't this been the training & policy in almost every law enforcement agency nationwide? Run to the sound of the guns asap and take the shooter out.

Almost everyone in this deal is derelict & negligent in their sworn duty. Disgusting leadership! If you have a dog leading a pride of lions you get lions acting like dogs.
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom