Long Range Hunting’s Impact on Harvests?

HikeHunt61

HikeHunt61

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I am genuinely interested in understanding LRH’s impact on deer and elk hunting. Has it measurably changed harvest %? Has it had a disproportionate effect on trophy class game?

I hypothesize that the overall harvest % is little impacted. However, I could see where trophy class game receives some impact. I suspect that the actual number of LRH capable hunters is less than 2% of the total hunting population. Note the word “capable”. If I’m right, 2% of hunters being LRH would have minimal overall harvest impact. However, if one is the type to become that proficient, invested (both time and money), and dedicated to becoming LRH capable, they are likely to be similarly invested in trophy game pursuit. Since trophy game is usually less than 10% of a huntable population, that 2% becomes 10X more impactful. But how impactful? Lastly, the impact of LRH needs to discount shorter range opportunities they have (or pass up?). The impact is just the increased success due to kill shots longer than, say 450 yards.

As for capable- it gets really squishy. I would define capable as:
  • Having the right equipment. (Gun, loads, scope, ballistics calc assistance, RF, Wind mtr, etc)
  • Proficient in use of that equipment. Spends inordinate amount of time practicing and honing skills with all the equipment to hit targets consistently at long range in a variety of situations.
  • Knowing real-world limitations. Does not take a shot in breezy conditions or take shots that are not makeable regardless of conditions (too far, not a good angle,etc).
  • Physically capable of serious hunting.
My last assumption is that there are far more than 2% of hunters who claim to hunt LRH but are no different in skill than the average hunter. I have personally met many in the field, or just in life (not passing judgement to folks on this forum). Funny that tho- I am 100% certain that none of the folks I personally met were LRH capable. Just listening to them talk about it or seeing them in action confirms that they lob shots out there, but are no more likely to hit something at 600 yards than I am. Not to start the argument- but I believe there have always been and always will be folks who do that. I don’t consider them LRH. I suppose one might make the argument there are more folks thinking they can than there used to be.

So what say you (especially the LRH capable folks)- do LRHers have measurable impacts on harvests? Are my assumptions way off base?
 
Yeah but # of dudes who THINK they are cabale bc they are INTERESTED in LRH and have spent a LITTLE time practicing long range, and who DONT KNOW OR HEED THEIR LIMITATIONS is probably a great #. They presumably wound lots of deer that get away and die. They probably cant/don't get to exact location deer was standing and make all efforts to see if hit was made. That doesn't count toward harvest numbers. I'm sure there's an impact. And the bigger the rack the more likely they are to push limits of their CAPABILITY.
 
High country I agree with you thoughts on the amount of wounded game. There are those people in the world that buy the latest and greatest equipment and think they came make extended range shots on game many times without shooting more than a few times a year.

I would also argue there are several archery hunters that wound as many if not more during the long season (compared to firearms) . I hear all summer long about guys hitting animals and not finding them.. this goes for gun hunters as well bit indefinitely hear it more around archery season

I think in the end the animals are pressured entirely to much and the gadgetry that's increasing the range for all three of the seasons sure ain't helping!
 
Assuming we’re looking for stable herd numbers, any tech that results in increased success rates must by definition be accompanied with tag cuts - or “reduced opportunity” as it’s called here.
 
LR hunters lower my success rates. To many times, with spot and stalk, I will be stalking an animal to get into range. Just before I get into shooting range, Someone will lob a pop shot from 800-1,000 yards away. They miss and I loose the opportunity to shoot.

When you can't beat them, do you have to join them?
 
I think LRH has increased success rates. I think a lot more shots are taken because they don't have to get close Although there are a lot of misses, I hear about a lot of Kills also. I also hear about a lot of lower leg hits with no recovery.
 
I know last year was my first time I hunted with a long range rifle and I killed a buck that I am almost certain I would not have killed with my old 270. If you get instructions and a little help from someone that knows hat they are doing, 700 yds is not that hard with the right set up. One of the hardest parts is finding where the deer was standing at when you shoot that far. I believe many hunters cannot locate where the deer was standing when they go look for it. I found by taking a picture from the place I shot helped me find where the deer was at when I got over there. I bet my 15 year old daughter could kill a deer at 700 yds with my gun today.
 
I think its like anything else! there are those who can "make" the shot and those who "shouldn't" and even those who can do make mistakes. Being strictly archery until this year I can hit my targets at 60 yards but haven't ever had to shoot past 35 for 15 bulls harvested. that being said I've wacked 2 shoulder blades inside 20 and lost 1 bull on a slightly low shot on the crease at 25.
It is hunting and I feel like my shot choices are always responsible and I wouldn't with a bow shoot passed 40. I think a lot can happen even within the 40 range. I feel this translates to LRH as well. But we can't force people to be responsible in ethical shooting distances. I would guess more game is lost with long range shots from any weapon than are recovered.
 
coyoteslayer said:
I know last year was my first time I hunted with a long range rifle and I killed a buck that I am almost certain I would not have killed with my old 270. If you get instructions and a little help from someone that knows hat they are doing, 700 yds is not that hard with the right set up. One of the hardest parts is finding where the deer was standing at when you shoot that far. I believe many hunters cannot locate where the deer was standing when they go look for it. I found by taking a picture from the place I shot helped me find where the deer was at when I got over there. I bet my 15 year old daughter could kill a deer at 700 yds with my gun today.
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I agree with finding shot location as being an obstacle in LRH as well as tracking
 
LRH shock. Arrived at elk camp to find rest of the crew armed with 26 Nosler, 28 Nosler, 6.5-300 Weatherby and the guys in the next tent saying they were dialed in to 800 yards. I’ve got my 7mm Rem Mag and have practiced out to 400 yards. Oh $hit! I shoot most of my whitetails under 100 yards. Totally under equipped for what rifle elk hunting has become in CO! IMO LRH is impacting elk quality in high draw units.
 
MtnBilly, Heart, 3200, HiCntry- I read a lot on this forum about wannabe LRHs. I've had two bad experiences myself with them- one back in the 90s and another 4 years ago. You convinced that it's a growing problem- not just something that's always been there?
 
OldMan2 said:
LRH shock. Arrived at elk camp to find rest of the crew armed with 26 Nosler, 28 Nosler, 6.5-300 Weatherby and the guys in the next tent saying they were dialed in to 800 yards. I’ve got my 7mm Rem Mag and have practiced out to 400 yards. Oh $hit! I shoot most of my whitetails under 100 yards. Totally under equipped for what rifle elk hunting has become in CO! IMO LRH is impacting elk quality in high draw units.
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I'm sure your 7MM Meg Mag can shoot as long range as the Noslers (properly equipped that is).
 
I always wondered if capable LRHs really get more game. Would be interesting if somebody used to be a sub400 shooter, then got into LRH, and saw a direct effect. I sometimes wonder if getting into LRH limits where you can hunt, how set up you have to be, etc- thus not really improving overall harvest. But I'm probably biased by the areas I hunt.
 
What distance are we defining as “Long Range”? I used to think 400 yards was very far, and I never killed anything at that range before 10 years ago.

In the last 3 years, I’ve had multiple kills from 300-600 yards, with fairly unsophisticated “long range” setups, and honestly it wasn’t difficult at all. Beyond 600 I think it gets more and more difficult.

For me, personally, I don’t punch more tags now…. Actually less, however, I get more selective as time goes on.
 
Go into the Utah form and see all 5 threads talking about this very thing and changes being proposed by Utah's wildlife board.
 
Good question. I was thinking 450+. Probably based on my mistaken belief that most hunters don't shoot subMOA loads, don't have turrets, and aren't setting up for near-bench like positions on their hunt. A 500 yard shot has a 30"+ drop. Not to mention the exaggerated effects of a small breeze on windage. I think it's getting pretty technical at that range. But hey- maybe that's the issue? Some say the old 300 is the new 500 (or is it the other way around):)
El Gringo said:
What distance are we defining as “Long Range”? I used to think 400 yards was very far, and I never killed anything at that range before 10 years ago.
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heartshot said:
LR hunters lower my success rates. To many times, with spot and stalk, I will be stalking an animal to get into range. Just before I get into shooting range, Someone will lob a pop shot from 800-1,000 yards away. They miss and I loose the opportunity to shoot.

When you can't beat them, do you have to join them?
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Funny you say that , on my last diy elk hunt and a pronghorn hunt , we had people sky blasting over the top of us, my range finder had Me @ 750 meters and those guys where about 150-200 behind me
the pronghorn deal was ridiculous the hunters where doing some sniper team thing , with spotter helping shooter walk in the shots while laying off the two track road
 
slamdunk said:
Go into the Utah form and see all 5 threads talking about this very thing and changes being proposed by Utah's wildlife board.
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Maybe I missed the thread Slam- but I've never heard the LRHs talking about increased success rates. I hear non-LRHs talking about it. Me included BTW- so not complaining.
 
El Gringo said:
What distance are we defining as “Long Range”? I used to think 400 yards was very far, and I never killed anything at that range before 10 years ago.

In the last 3 years, I’ve had multiple kills from 300-600 yards, with fairly unsophisticated “long range” setups, and honestly it wasn’t difficult at all. Beyond 600 I think it gets more and more difficult.

For me, personally, I don’t punch more tags now…. Actually less, however, I get more selective as time goes on.
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Exactly where "cherry picking quality" comes into play in the Utah Technology threads.
You nailed it square on the head.
 
Its impacting herd quality, tag numbers, etc. no question.

Go hunt region G or H for mule deer here in Wyoming, won't take anyone long to recognize the impact.

Same with sheep hunting, most of the guided hunters in Wyoming don't even shoot their own rifles, they use the outfitters rifle.

You never hear about the shots that knock a leg off, or the shot through the guts that are never recovered.

The difference between the guys shooting long range, is that those that know what they're doing know when, and more importantly, when NOT to execute a long range shot.

IME, there's not many that savvy that and as a result, the wildlife and opportunity both pay the price for it.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Good question. I was thinking 450+. Probably based on my mistaken belief that most hunters don't shoot subMOA loads, don't have turrets, and aren't setting up for near-bench like positions on their hunt. A 500 yard shot has a 30"+ drop. Not to mention the exaggerated effects of a small breeze on windage. I think it's getting pretty technical at that range. But hey- maybe that's the issue? Some say the old 300 is the new 500 (or is it the other way around):)
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I agree that it’s the minority that have and use the equipment. It’s the same guys that were using every conceivable advantage 15 years ago, and the same guys that will be using every edge 15 years from now.

If I had to guess, I could see equipment advances taking the cream off the top, as far as quality goes. However that means more mature animals are being killed in Lieu of younger. Some might argue that’s a positive, as it lets some younger bucks/bulls come up.

Without real, mandatory data, over multiple years, it’s really just speculation, and frankly, a dangerous exercise to scream loudly about…. Once things go away, they don’t often come back.
 
BuzzH said:
Its impacting herd quality, tag numbers, etc. no question.

Go hunt region G or H for mule deer here in Wyoming, won't take anyone long to recognize the impact.

Same with sheep hunting, most of the guided hunters in Wyoming don't even shoot their own rifles, they use the outfitters rifle.

You never hear about the shots that knock a leg off, or the shot through the guts that are never recovered.

The difference between the guys shooting long range, is that those that know what they're doing know when, and more importantly, when NOT to execute a long range shot.

IME, there's not many that savvy that and as a result, the wildlife and opportunity both pay the price for it.
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I saw 2 or 3 pretty incredible bucks, in my whole 4 days in Region G. I was with an outfitter that had done their homework, for the record. I don’t know how it used to be, but there’s still a few great bucks living in those mountains…

I would LOVE another go at them.
 
JPickett said:
its had the greatest impact of opinions on the internet. most who have the strongest opinions have no idea what their talking about
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Weren't you accused of being a long range liar recently? I think it's hilarious that people think others are always lying about making a long shot.

It's just like a guy that catches a big fish, the naysayers will claim its just another BS fish story.
 
Weiserbucks said:
Weren't you accused of being a long range liar recently? I think it's hilarious that people think others are always lying about making a long shot.

It's just like a guy that catches a big fish, the naysayers will claim its just another BS fish story.
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Oh yeah. Only satisfaction I get in life is making sure the MM crowd is impressed with me. If that takes lying about long shot then lying about long shots it is.

I guess I’m a long ranger. But I’ve also been doing it since before it was cool. Over 400 being called long range doesn’t really register with me. Anything under 500 I see as a chip shot.

All that being said I still don’t have a strong opinion on the matter. I know what I can do because I’ve done it. I don’t care at all what someone else can or can’t do because I hunt alone.

Doesn’t make a bit of difference nor affect me one way or another. I think that can actually be said about most. Why i always get a kick out of how worked up guys get about it. Worry about yourself
 
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JPickett said:
Oh yeah. Only satisfaction I get in life is making sure the MM crowd is impressed with me. If that takes lying about long shot then lying about long shots it is.

I guess I’m a long ranger. But I’ve also been doing it since before it was cool. Over 400 being called long range doesn’t really register with me. Anything under 500 I see as a chip shot.

All that being said I still don’t have a strong opinion on the matter. I know what I can do because I’ve done it. I don’t care at all what someone else can or can’t do because I hunt alone.

Doesn’t make a bit of difference nor affect me one way or another. I think that can actually be said about most. Why i always get a kick out of how worked up guys get about it. Worry about yourself
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I wasn't taking a dig at you, just makes me laugh that people think long range is some kind of myth like the female orgasm.
 
JPickett- is your success rate per hunt off the charts? Do you focus your hunts in places where LR is most effective? Do you get monsters more than others?
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Good question. I was thinking 450+. Probably based on my mistaken belief that most hunters don't shoot subMOA loads, don't have turrets, and aren't setting up for near-bench like positions on their hunt. A 500 yard shot has a 30"+ drop. Not to mention the exaggerated effects of a small breeze on windage. I think it's getting pretty technical at that range. But hey- maybe that's the issue? Some say the old 300 is the new 500 (or is it the other way around):)
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Everyone at elk camp had turret scopes, bipods or tripods and were dialed in to shoot 800 yards. Except me. The elk we saw at 500+ yards did not react to our presence. This gave us ample time to drop down in altitude, set up the Bog tripod and basically mount the rifle. It was like I was shooting bench rest at the range! True eye opener!!
 
Talking muzzleloader hunting.
Yes its made an impact. I personally wouldn't shoot past 200 with open sights, now "long range" has came into play with just a simple scope and has made the same gun lethal out past 400 yards. More deer have met there demise due to the fact I was able to shoot further.
 
BuzzH said:
Its impacting herd quality, tag numbers, etc. no question.

Go hunt region G or H for mule deer here in Wyoming, won't take anyone long to recognize the impact.

Same with sheep hunting, most of the guided hunters in Wyoming don't even shoot their own rifles, they use the outfitters rifle.

You never hear about the shots that knock a leg off, or the shot through the guts that are never recovered.

The difference between the guys shooting long range, is that those that know what they're doing know when, and more importantly, when NOT to execute a long range shot.

IME, there's not many that savvy that and as a result, the wildlife and opportunity both pay the price for it.
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Your local G guide is teaching them for a price.
 
TheOneRidgeRunner said:
Talking muzzleloader hunting.
Yes its made an impact. I personally wouldn't shoot past 200 with open sights, now "long range" has came into play with just a simple scope and has made the same gun lethal out past 400 yards. More deer have met there demise due to the fact I was able to shoot further.
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Utah's data isn't showing much of an Increase in success rates, but we aren't measuring quality.
It's a very controversial issue right now as technology is being tamed.
 
It really is more about the setup and a chart/ballistics app that has been proofed out where you shoot. Off the box ballistics will have a bad result most of the time. I have one rifle that I would shoot over 500 and have successfully used on five animals so far, all without wounding and losing one. It is a 7mm Ultra Mag shooting a Berger 195 at 3100 FPS. I bought off Gunbroker "used" for great deal from Bob Beck in 2016- Did not know who he was at the time. It was built in 2013 when he was still with Mcmillian and designed around the then unreleased brand new 195 bullet. It is a Mcmillan G20 action, stock, 1-8 twist barrel. I put a way to heavy NF 5-25 ATACR on it. Even though it sucks to pack around at 10lbs, I know I can make shots with it at reasonable ranges. Reasonable for me shooting that rifle under hunting conditions is under 700 yards. Now some rocks at 1k or more are in serious trouble, deer not so much. Longest kill was 634 in NV on a Pronghorn. Anyway the thing shoots lights out, I have a couple lighter rifles that I still take when hunting thicker stuff but that rifle I have full confidence in. Without a bunch of wind to account for it really is range, dial, shoot. I have a 7k elevation chart which gets you pretty close for 90 percent of where I have hunted and I zeroed it at 300 yards, anything under 375 is a dead hold. I have not had a high wind shot yet and would not take one unless it was well under 500 most likely as I admittedly have not practiced enough with 10-15 mph steady crosswinds. do think it accounts for success more now than ever. I would never take a shot over 300 - before rangefinders anyway. Rangefinders and good repeatable turret scopes were the real tech change for LRH with rifles, high BC hunting bullets also. But RF have probably had the single greatest impact on bow/muzz/ and rifle hunting.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
JPickett- is your success rate per hunt off the charts? Do you focus your hunts in places where LR is most effective? Do you get monsters more than others?
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I fill my deer, elk and bear tag every year. But I always have. I only hunt elk with a bow, I hunt deer and bear with both bow and rifle. I like to hunt, so I have tools to do what I like. I’ve posted before, I have killed as close as 15 feet, as far as 964 yards and about everything in between. Some call that unethical, some call it well rounded, I mean it when I say I could give a chit what anyone thinks. But that’s just me

Wieser, I knew you weren’t diggin at me bud
 
middlefork said:
So what is the rosy predictions in other states? Mule deer carpeting the landscape? Massive trophy deer a dime a dozen?

Sorry I may have missed those predictions.
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We're not going to neuter you to allow you to hunt. That's as rosy as it gets.

If you're in favor of being neutered, stick to the Utah poor me scene.
 
JPickett said:
I fill my deer, elk and bear tag every year. But I always have. I only hunt elk with a bow, I hunt deer and bear with both bow and rifle. I like to hunt, so I have tools to do what I like. I’ve posted before, I have killed as close as 15 feet, as far as 964 yards and about everything in between. Some call that unethical, some call it well rounded, I mean it when I say I could give a chit what anyone thinks. But that’s just me

Wieser, I knew you weren’t diggin at me bud
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I have a friend that does the same, fills every tag he has every year and always has. The only difference is now he is killing deer with his bow at 140 yards and with his rifle at 1394 yards (actual kill shot yardage). Not my cup of tea but he kills some big animals every year.
 
twopointdn said:
I have a friend that does the same, fills every tag he has every year and always has. The only difference is now he is killing deer with his bow at 140 yards and with his rifle at 1394 yards (actual kill shot yardage). Not my cup of tea but he kills some big animals every year.
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Of the two I’d rather see guys taking the 1394 yard shot. But again, who am I to say what someone else can do
 
Where I live and hunt in SE Wyoming the wind will often blow steady at 40-50 mph and gust to 70 during the fall and winter. If you drive on I-80 or go through Medicine Bow, take a look at all of those wind turbines. They are there for a reason. And the wind is just as bad on the east slope of the Laramie Range, where we also hunt.

I have long range guys show up to hunt with us every year and talk about their capabilities. The guys that talk-the-talk outnumber the walk-the-walk guys by at least 10 to 1.

When the wind is blowing 40+ mph, I can't even keep my tripod steady enough to look through my spotting scope. There are days when you are literally being blown around while laying prone on the ground trying to make a shot. Using a tripod to shoot a critter would be fool's play on days like those.

In fact, I'd say the majority of the guys that show up here don't even know they can adjust the zero on a rifle with turrets. I have a good selection of allen and torx wrenches so we can actually adjust the scope to our altitude. The hunters don't even have the equipment or know-how to do that. Almost always, "somebody else set that up for me."

I would also say that the majority of the "long-range shooters" that show up to hunt here can't shoot a sub MOA group off the bench rest. Likely 1.5-2" at 100 yards is the norm. I have a decent range with a covered bench and targets/plates out to over 800 yards. I shoot a quite a bit and am pretty confident. But I know better than to try to shoot 600+ yards in a 40 mph gusting wind. And I really try to get everyone as close as possible to an animal. Experience has taught me most folks tend to overestimate their abilities. And I have also learned most folks are not as concerned about wounding an animal as me, even though it is made very clear that drawing blood ends your hunt. In 35 years, we have lost 1 elk, 1 antelope and 2 deer. I wish it was zero, bu that's pretty good.

The people that can actually shoot well long-range rarely say much. They just step up and do things well, professionally checking their rifles.

As has been stated, know your abilities and know your limits. Also know that environmental conditions can seriously alter those limits. And be honest about your ability. Nobody cares if your limit is 250-300 yards. I'd much rather know that than have you say you can shoot to 600 yards knowing full well you are 50-50 at best hitting a 2 foot square plate at that yardage off of a bench rest. We make every hunter shoot before they can hunt for a reason. First, we need to know if they can safely handle a firearm. (Many can not!) Then we need to know their shooting limits. It's also good "insurance" for the hunters to make sure their rifle is still properly sighted in. I bet we end up adjusting at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the rifles that show up here.

The people on this forum are likely more capable than the average western hunter. That's especially true when we've been on a half-mile dash to get a quick shot. Altitude is also a killer for most out-of-state guys coming to Wyoming. Adrenaline is also a big factor. Most of us have seen and done it many times. Others not so much and they tend to get real excited. I make many hunters dry fire on an empty chamber a BEFORE they get to load a live round to shoot. We may miss a few opportunities but we do get quality shots when the hammer is dropped.

Sorry for the long post. Hot topic and there's a lot of varied ability in those who think they are long-range shooters.
'
 
ICMDEER said:
Where I live and hunt in SE Wyoming the wind will often blow steady at 40-50 mph and gust to 70 during the fall and winter. If you drive on I-80 or go through Medicine Bow, take a look at all of those wind turbines. They are there for a reason. And the wind is just as bad on the east slope of the Laramie Range, where we also hunt.

I have long range guys show up to hunt with us every year and talk about their capabilities. The guys that talk-the-talk outnumber the walk-the-walk guys by at least 10 to 1.

When the wind is blowing 40+ mph, I can't even keep my tripod steady enough to look through my spotting scope. There are days when you are literally being blown around while laying prone on the ground trying to make a shot. Using a tripod to shoot a critter would be fool's play on days like those.

In fact, I'd say the majority of the guys that show up here don't even know they can adjust the zero on a rifle with turrets. I have a good selection of allen and torx wrenches so we can actually adjust the scope to our altitude. The hunters don't even have the equipment or know-how to do that. Almost always, "somebody else set that up for me."

I would also say that the majority of the "long-range shooters" that show up to hunt here can't shoot a sub MOA group off the bench rest. Likely 1.5-2" at 100 yards is the norm. I have a decent range with a covered bench and targets/plates out to over 800 yards. I shoot a quite a bit and am pretty confident. But I know better than to try to shoot 600+ yards in a 40 mph gusting wind. And I really try to get everyone as close as possible to an animal. Experience has taught me most folks tend to overestimate their abilities. And I have also learned most folks are not as concerned about wounding an animal as me, even though it is made very clear that drawing blood ends your hunt. In 35 years, we have lost 1 elk, 1 antelope and 2 deer. I wish it was zero, bu that's pretty good.

The people that can actually shoot well long-range rarely say much. They just step up and do things well, professionally checking their rifles.

As has been stated, know your abilities and know your limits. Also know that environmental conditions can seriously alter those limits. And be honest about your ability. Nobody cares if your limit is 250-300 yards. I'd much rather know that than have you say you can shoot to 600 yards knowing full well you are 50-50 at best hitting a 2 foot square plate at that yardage off of a bench rest. We make every hunter shoot before they can hunt for a reason. First, we need to know if they can safely handle a firearm. (Many can not!) Then we need to know their shooting limits. It's also good "insurance" for the hunters to make sure their rifle is still properly sighted in. I bet we end up adjusting at least 1/3 to 1/2 of the rifles that show up here.

The people on this forum are likely more capable than the average western hunter. That's especially true when we've been on a half-mile dash to get a quick shot. Altitude is also a killer for most out-of-state guys coming to Wyoming. Adrenaline is also a big factor. Most of us have seen and done it many times. Others not so much and they tend to get real excited. I make many hunters dry fire on an empty chamber a BEFORE they get to load a live round to shoot. We may miss a few opportunities but we do get quality shots when the hammer is dropped.

Sorry for the long post. Hot topic and there's a lot of varied ability in those who think they are long-range shooters.
'
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Excellent post. If the wind is blowing, I’m not pulling the trigger on a long shot. I use a ballistics calculator, that has altitude as an input parameter to determine bullet drop. Surprisingly, when inputting 2000 ft versus 8000 ft, at 500 yds the difference is only 2 inches (6.5 PRC). 600 4” 700 7” , etc.
 
So that's why Wyoming has so few LRHs:

1658264616991.png
 
Funny. How I hear folks say they can hit a target at 1000yds. I don't even think about how long I can shoot. Only thing I look at when I long range target practice is how my groups are at 600-1000yds. I shoot 5 shot groups until it's more than half MOA then I stop there. Whatever range that may be. Then I figure if it's my loads or my shootings and continue on.

After a few sessions like this you'll know for sure your limits. I hope this is what long range shooters/hunters are doing as a base.
 
To answer the OP in my opinion, yes I think there is significant impact especially when it comes to Deer.
I think we are knocking out the 'trophy' and older age class Bucks and they are not being replenished fast enough to meet the demand.
Then throw in a drought, declining numbers and all of the other factors everyone is talking about and it starts to domino for the worse for the Deer.
As far as other species who knows, maybe they aren't affected as much.
My longest was a 460 yarder on my Desert Tag. It was with a rifle I have been shooting for 20 years. I was very comfortable and had been practicing and had the confidence.
I can hit a target at 700 and under the right conditions I might try it on an animal. Should I?
Some would call it Long Range Shooting not Hunting.
I have taken a few pokes that I should not have but, Its hard to go home empty handed. Thats probably why a lot of guys try it.
I am starting to think Elk Ass may be on to something with his plan.
Some guys may take offense and that is not my intent But, we all better start trying to figure where we can cut or there aint gonna be many tags to go around if we dont.
Just my rambling and opinion.
 
Homer said:
I have a very good friend that is a sheep outfitter.....nothing makes him more nervous than the client that shows up and says...."anything inside 1000 yards is dead"....
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Ya know- I never considered that- at least for determining if guides see increased success from LRHs. I'm sure they see their share of yahoos- but do they see more skilled, long range hunters? If so, do they gear hunts for those types? More success?
 
heartshot said:
LR hunters lower my success rates. To many times, with spot and stalk, I will be stalking an animal to get into range. Just before I get into shooting range, Someone will lob a pop shot from 800-1,000 yards away. They miss and I loose the opportunity to shoot.

When you can't beat them, do you have to join them?
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Honest question, how many times has this scenario actually happened? Not arguing just curious because it’s happened to me exactly zero times.
 
I haven't read through all the comments, but I will say any person that has just average shooting skills and shoots a few times per year and the right equipment can easily kill something out to 500 yards in the right conditions with a solid rest. It is pretty easy honestly. 15 to 20 years ago, that was an extremely long shot. I'm sure it's impacted the quality of the game we hunt.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
I haven't read through all the comments, but I will say any person that has just average shooting skills and shoots a few times per year and the right equipment can easily kill something out to 500 yards in the right conditions with a solid rest. It is pretty easy honestly. 15 to 20 years ago, that was an extremely long shot. I'm sure it's impacted the quality of the game we hunt.
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In your thinking- what tech was not available 15 years ago that changed a 500 yard shot from extremely long to easy? (Not arguing, just interested in the thought process)
 
coyoteslayer said:
I know last year was my first time I hunted with a long range rifle and I killed a buck that I am almost certain I would not have killed with my old 270. If you get instructions and a little help from someone that knows hat they are doing, 700 yds is not that hard with the right set up. One of the hardest parts is finding where the deer was standing at when you shoot that far. I believe many hunters cannot locate where the deer was standing when they go look for it. I found by taking a picture from the place I shot helped me find where the deer was at when I got over there. I bet my 15 year old daughter could kill a deer at 700 yds with my gun today.
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Agree, for the most part.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
In your thinking- what tech was not available 15 years ago that changed a 500 yard shot from extremely long to easy? (Not arguing, just interested in the thought process)
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The tech was probably available but not near as many people had it. Rangefinders, exposed turrets on scopes and the long range craze, YouTube videos, Instagram that gave people the idea to get out and try it. I bet 15 to 20 years ago a lot of people didn't have range finders and almost nobody had exposed turrets on their scope. The idea of shooting 500 yards was not as near commonplace, let alone 800 plus.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
The tech was probably available but not near as many people had it. Rangefinders, exposed turrets on scopes and the long range craze, YouTube videos, Instagram that gave people the idea to get out and try it. I bet 15 to 20 years ago a lot of people didn't have range finders and almost nobody had exposed turrets on their scope. The idea of shooting 500 yards was not as near commonplace, let alone 800 plus.
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I'm still shooting with a Leupy scope from the 90s. Still banging 2.5" groups at 600yds.

Were you even old enough to shoot long range in the 90s? Just curious...
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Ya know- I never considered that- at least for determining if guides see increased success from LRHs. I'm sure they see their share of yahoos- but do they see more skilled, long range hunters? If so, do they gear hunts for those types? More success?
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Only the ones that don’t brag……can shoot…and definately not more success
 
RookieWYhntr said:
I'm still shooting with a Leupy scope from the 90s. Still banging 2.5" groups at 600yds.

Were you even old enough to shoot long range in the 90s? Just curious...
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Yes I was old enough. My old man and his friends were certainly old enough. Very few people had rangefinders or an exposed turrett on their scope. You don't need all that stuff, but it is a game changer to have it. What's your point? You were by far the minority back in the 90s. Now everyone has the equipment to do it. You disagree with that? Did you have a rangefinder in the 90s that would reach out that far?
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
Yes I was old enough. My old man and his friends were certainly old enough. Very few people had rangefinders or an exposed turrett on their scope. You don't need all that stuff, but it is a game changer to have it. What's your point? You were by far the minority back in the 90s. Now everyone has the equipment to do it. You disagree with that? Did you have a rangefinder in the 90s that would reach out that far?
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See post #17
 
RookieWYhntr said:
Serious question. Have you shot long range? What is your best groups from 600yds-1000yds. Answer this then we can talk.
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Here you go. Honest answer. Longest I've ever killed an animal is 516 yards. I am not a long range shooter. I have shot a few patterns out 600 yards. Patterns were about 10 inches, not great. Usually I go to three mile range creek in Northern Utah. They have a range that goes out to a thousand yards with a variety of Steel targets. When I do most of my long range shooting I'm going out there and hitting the targets not shooting patterns. I don't claim to be a long range shooter. But 15 to 20 years ago I would have never even thought to shoot out past 500 yards. I killed that buck at 516 yards with one shot, and I really don't practice long range shooting. 20 years ago I wouldn't have known how far he was and I wouldn't have had a turrett on my scope. 20 years ago that buck would have lived or I would have had to sneak in closer and shoot him. Sounds like you're a serious long-range shooter, I'm sure you know your stuff. But don't act for a second like today's hunting population isn't much much more capable of shooting long range than the hunting population was back in the '90s. That's the whole point I'm making. You and anyone with half a brain knows that's true.
 
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I don't shoot LR. I have watched several people who do. My takeaway is remove the range finder and you will eliminate a lot of success. If that is what you are after.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
Here you go. Honest answer. Longest I've ever killed an animal is 516 yards. I am not a long range shooter. I have shot a few patterns out 600 yards. Patterns were about 10 inches, not great. Usually I go to three mile range creek in Northern Utah. They have a range that goes out to a thousand yards with a variety of Steel targets. When I do most of my long range shooting I'm going out there and hitting the targets not shooting patterns. I don't claim to be a long range shooter. But 15 to 20 years ago I would have never even thought to shoot out past 500 yards. I killed that bucket 516 yards with one shot, and I really don't practice long range shooting. 20 years ago I wouldn't have known how far he was and I wouldn't have had a turrett on my scope. 20 years ago that buck would have lived or I would have had to sneak in closer and shoot him. Sounds like you're a serious long-range shooter, I'm sure you know your stuff. But don't act for a second like today's hunting population isn't much much more capable of shooting long range than the hunting population was back in the '90s. That's the whole point I'm making. You and anyone with half a brain knows that's true.
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Noticed I never mentioned anything about me killing animals at long range. But I've shot thousands of rounds at long range targets.

When I hear folks talk about long range shooting I know immediately who has put in the time. Thus the #17 post. :)
 
RookieWYhntr said:
Noticed I never mentioned anything about me killing animals at long range. But I've shot thousands of rounds at long range targets.

When I hear folks talk about long range shooting I know immediately who has put in the time. Thus the #17 post. :)
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Well once again you've missed the boat. The whole point I'm making is that long range is much more popular now than in the 90s. Never once did I say I'm an expert in Long range, or that I ame even a long range shooter. If I was a long range shooter, I would kick my own ass. Congrats on being a long range shooter. I couldn't bear the thought of it myself. So you are disagreeing with me that there's more long-range Shooters now, than back in the 90s? The whole point I've been making, this whole time. Just answer that question, it's not that hard.
 
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schoolhousegrizz said:
I haven't read through all the comments, but I will say any person that has just average shooting skills and shoots a few times per year and the right equipment can easily kill something out to 500 yards in the right conditions with a solid rest. It is pretty easy honestly. 15 to 20 years ago, that was an extremely long shot. I'm sure it's impacted the quality of the game we hunt.
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I would agree. Case it point, a few years ago I took my then 9 year old boy out with some friends to shoot some LR steel. Up to that point my boy had limited time behind a rifle and nothing over 100 yards on a range bench. My friends got him behind several different guns. There warm up shots were at 575 yards and all steel plates were 8” or 12” plates. My boy loved hearing the steel ring after each of his shots at 575, 875, 925, 1019, and 1106 yards. The wind that day was mild from 5 to 12 mph and he was shooting prone for everything but the 575 where he warmed up on a portable field bench. It got me excited to learn more about LR and Extreme LR shooting and I have played with it on steel with rifles and muzzleloaders. I do not like that it is being used in hunting situations for LR and Extreme long range opportunities on animals. I also believe there is becoming a social designation between the difference between a hunter and a shooter even though we all may have the same tags in our pocket. I like to hunt animals but last year I had my first taste of being a shooter of an animal and it was not the same for me so I get where this social designation is coming from. It is amazing what these guns can do. All my guns are built to be light and functional for by style of hunting. Back to scoolhousegrizz post, when you practice out at LR and Extreme LR distances, 500 yard shots are classified as warm up shot. I could not believe that until I seen it and then to see my 9 year old boy do it, it made me a believer. 30-06, 7 mm, 300 RUM, 270 WSM, 6.5 whatever… they were all ringing steel at 1000 plus yards, cheap or expensive they were doing it. All loads are hand loads so we have put in our time there. My stance is clear on this subject of LR rifles and LR muzzleloader and that is I wish it was not used in the hunting world, military, law enforcement, and shooting steel, yes, hunting no. I do believe it has had and that it will continue to have and impact on the success and quality of the hunt and hunting experience. I believe opportunity will have to be reduced to accommodate the advanced technology being used to harvest animals. Just my thoughts and everyone has their right to theirs as well. It is a division on both side of this topic and there are pros and cons to both sides. Good luck this season.
 
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schoolhousegrizz said:
Well once again you've missed the boat. The whole point I'm making is that long range is much more popular now than in the 90s. Never once did I say I'm an expert in Long range, or that I ame even a long range shooter. If I was a long range shooter, I would kick my own ass. Congrats on being a long range shooter. I couldn't bear the thought of it myself. So you are disagreeing with me that there's more long-range Shooters now, than back in the 90s? The whole point I've been making, this while time. Just answer that question, it's not that hard.
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Yep. You are correct. Lots of idiots out there lobbing boolits at long range today vs in the 90s.
 
ridgetops said:
And more wounded animals
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I'll admit I suck at range estimation but how many people can estimate range over 500 yards and come close enough to even hit an animal?

How many can estimate 300 yards accurately? Kind of why point blank range is talked about,
 
I did a little guiding several years ago for a friend that owned an outfitting business.

One of the questions that we always asked the hunters was, "How far are you comfortable shooing at an animal (deer and antelope)."

A father-son combo showed up with identical custom rifles and the father was assigned to me to guide for an antelope. I asked him the question we asked each hunter about their distance comfort range. The father told me he could shoot to 1000 yards. I asked how often he shot at that range and his answer was, "well I shot at that distance in Vietnam". That was about 35 years prior to this hunt.

I got him on an antelope that was about 200 yards out, standing still. He takes a shot at the buck and misses by at least 30 feet.

I had prior obligations so I could not guide for several days. I told my outfitter friend that evening about the poor shooting that day and it may be difficult for this guy to shoot an antelope. About 3-4 days later my friend called and told me the guy missed a few more antelope before he was able to hit one.

Moral of the story: just because someone thinks they can hit a critter at a long distance they may not be able to hit sh!t, even at relatively close distance.

ClearCreek
 
Kinda interesting how in reading hundreds of comments in my 5 Utah forum threads about emerging technology and it certainly appears the heavy majority don't want to change anything about current weapons, stay in the now, and somehow data has magically become gospel fail proof truths.

Then I pop over to this thread in the General with multi state hunter comments and it heavily weighs in favor of drawing a line in the sand for multiple reasons, including what data doesn't show.

Funny.....
 
slamdunk said:
Kinda interesting how in reading hundreds of comments in my 5 Utah forum threads about emerging technology and it certainly appears the heavy majority don't want to change anything about current weapons, stay in the now, and somehow data has magically become gospel fail proof truths.

Then I pop over to this thread in the General with multi state hunter comments and it heavily weighs in favor of drawing a line in the sand for multiple reasons, including what data doesn't show.

Funny.....
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That's because UT is a very, very special needs case.
 
My god, yes cowboy’s with long range rifles, Muzzy’s and archery. Affect the overall success rate.

Guys that have skills in all 3 effect every state @ long range if they can down an animal with choice projectile.

Just give us some simple state data.

Archery hunters Log on a harvest report 58 yards…. So, so forth.. Muzzy, Rifle…

We want to talk about LONG RANGE…… We can’t even get an accurate count of animals to harvest..

We as hunter’s can self govern in a way.. we got to have some parameters to regulate.

There is none.. board for this, committee for that. What happened to FUc*** leaders.???

In multiple western states! Technology? put it to work!

MM can’t fix shi*t from the bottom up☝️.
 
WTF , we do before the internet call 37.5 people on land lines and materialize a consensus of the general public???? Formalize a committee or group?

GET some God DA** leadership!!
 
I dunno, grandpa has a story about holding 8 feet over the back of a big mule deer back in the 70s. Shooting core Loks in the 30-06. Took a few but he walked it in there. Had to finish him off when he walked up on him. He had no shame, it was heralded as an incredible shot by his camp. Plenty of stories of running bucks, off hand shots, etc etc.

I think guys have always been pushing their limits and wounding or missing deer. How many guys today would take a running 100 yard shot? Personally my odds of a clean kill are better at 600 yards off my bipod. But then again grandpa used to practice on jackrabbits, rolling tires, clay pigeons, etc.
 
willfrye- kinda similar but different experiences from times forgotten. I had an extended family member, back in the 70s, who claimed his 300 Weatherby Mag could shoot flat out to 600. Oh, and he didn't have to lead a running animal. Of course, as my dad pointed out, there didn't seem to be a lot of evidence of success around :).
 
Helped a young lady with a bull tag last fall. Set her up with my custom rifle. She shot frequently, however, not at very long range. She was comfortable with the gun and could group well. Big Bull shows up at 700 yards. Not many ways to get much closer. I Dial the gun, set her up on the BOG Death Grip, BOOM. Dead Bull. How many outfitters are setting up their Clients with their "Long Range" set ups ?? I am sure its a very common thing these days. My point is, as i have mentioned before, we are getting too good at the game and the "Top End" animals are paying the price. (LE only).
 
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I know multiple young hunters who have taken bucks between 400-600 yards due to a well tuned gun. Everyone of these kids might have been unsuccessful otherwise.
 
Seems like the majority believe success rates are higher with LRHs, and quite a few believe there are more unethical wannabes impacting hunting via injured animals and other ways. Interesting. I had a bias that there was little impact. I suspect that some of that is due to where people hunt.
 

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