Fire season back

DeerMadness

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We were not too far from Salmon this week camping. A fire near Salmon got pretty smoky and went from 1k to >27k acres while we were there. Fire season is here and I sure hope it doesn't get bad here or any other state. Hopefully California gets a break.
 
Deployed to the Oak Fire two days ago.

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California’s largest wildfire of the year burns near Yosemite​


California's Oak Fire burns thousands of acres, prompts Gov. Newsom to declare emergency near Yosemite​

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The Fed. park service used to conduct winter control burns at this park to reduce excessive fuel to prevent fires like this one.
The CA. Air resources board stopped them from doing control burns BECAUSE IT POLLUTED THE AIR. Now we have this major fire that may destroy the old growth redwood trees.
There was a report that Congress is considering a bill that change the rules on providing protection to National Parks. One of those rules will be going back to control burns in winter time. If that happens they will be telling the CA. Air Resources Board to put it where the sun does not shine. About time.
RELH
 
This sure could be a bad fire year. We'll hope/pray for moisture and cool weather. Everyone stay safe.

But I will say the smoke may save many cervid lives. It is hard to do long-distance glassing with that heavy smoke and haze around.
 
California leads the nation in the fight against climate change. We just export all of our carbon by burning our forests down and letting it drift east.

The history of drought in California. The little red blip on the end is man made. The rest is natural.

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Yep over here in Nevada we’re getting pretty tired of dealing with all of California’s wildfire smoke.
Would it help if California had different forest management policies?
 
Yep over here in Nevada we’re getting pretty tired of dealing with all of California’s wildfire smoke.
Would it help if California had different forest management policies?
90% of our fires are human caused, either by arsonists or totally irresponsible people. I think we should start there, but yes, correct forest management would prevent most mega fires.
 
Buckhorn, control burns during wet winter months were the main protection from severe fires during the dry months due to getting rid of the underbrush.
In our area, U.S. forest service were big advocates of using control burns for years until the late 70's early 80's there was a big push by so called enviros to stop the burns due to air pollution.
Now we have 30 or more years where this brush has been allowed to grow so large that we have fires that burn so hot they kill everything in their path.
Our stupid politicians failed to pay attention what our local indians used to do to control wildfires. In the 1800's they lived in the foothills of our area during the summer months. During the winter months they would migrate to the valley floor and camp along the rivers that are here. when they left the foothills, they would ignite brush fires to keep the heavy brush down. It also helped their deer hunting by providing new green growth in the springtime. Those Indians were smarter then our Green Deal politicians and so called experts.
RELH
 
Buckhorn, control burns during wet winter months were the main protection from severe fires during the dry months due to getting rid of the underbrush.
In our area, U.S. forest service were big advocates of using control burns for years until the late 70's early 80's there was a big push by so called enviros to stop the burns due to air pollution.
Now we have 30 or more years where this brush has been allowed to grow so large that we have fires that burn so hot they kill everything in their path.
Our stupid politicians failed to pay attention what our local indians used to do to control wildfires. In the 1800's they lived in the foothills of our area during the summer months. During the winter months they would migrate to the valley floor and camp along the rivers that are here. when they left the foothills, they would ignite brush fires to keep the heavy brush down. It also helped their deer hunting by providing new green growth in the springtime. Those Indians were smarter then our Green Deal politicians and so called experts.



RELH

Thats exactly right, forest fires 100 years ago would burn continually. It wasn't until man (USFS) thought they were smarter than God and stopped logging and started to support all the tree hugger policies that created these enormous forest full of dead timber did these catastrophic fires become part of life.
 
Newsome has plans to do his forest management nation wide in 2024. I wonder if Dude-Tog will be voting for him.
RELH
 
I think all of the mega fires we have had in the last several years has created large fire breaks. I believe I heard on the TV that Oak Creek fire was burning towards one of those areas hopefully helping out the fire fighters.
Newsom won't do it so Mother Nature will.
 
AZGuy The CA. Air quality board stopped the Feds from doing control burns on Federal park lands at Sequoia National Park because it polluted the air. As a result a large fire there nearly destroyed the giant redwood trees this year.
RELH
 
CARB is the de facto federal program, with a few years lag. Thanks CA.

You re better off without those trees if there are federal lands nearby. Everyone‘s seen this before, but it doesn’t hurt to get reminded every once in a while.

 
CARB is the de facto federal program, with a few years lag. Thanks CA.

You re better off without those trees if there are federal lands nearby. Everyone‘s seen this before, but it doesn’t hurt to get reminded every once in a while.

And who are you? CalFire? You can’t make anyone happy, no matter what anyone does people will have something to complain about. Especially people like you who don’t even know what they’re complaining about.
 
And who are you? CalFire? You can’t make anyone happy, no matter what anyone does people will have something to complain about. Especially people like you who don’t even know what they’re complaining about.
So, burning down half of NM was public outreach “to make people happy”?

It was a controlled burn on a red flag day. But yeah, I’m the problem :rolleyes:
 
I won’t pretend I know about that day or the following week. Seems hard to believe the project area was in Red Flag during ignition, but not unbelievable. There are stupid people all over the world and a few made the decision not the agency. Making comments about the agency as a whole is where I have a problem. Our biggest struggle to get anything done is ignorant people like yourself who don’t like the outcome no matter what it is. If it were run by the state what difference do you think there would be.
 
I won’t pretend I know about that day or the following week. Seems hard to believe the project area was in Red Flag during ignition, but not unbelievable. There are stupid people all over the world and a few made the decision not the agency. Making comments about the agency as a whole is where I have a problem. Our biggest struggle to get anything done is ignorant people like yourself who don’t like the outcome no matter what it is. If it were run by the state what difference do you think there would be.
All I said is that federal lands are mismanaged. It was not a comment on firefighters. Unless you want to defend the efficiency of the federal bureaucracy (read the link), we don’t have a beef.
 
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No beef, but the firefighters were the ones who managed and lit the burn. A few of them made the decision, right or wrong. Ignitions were on April 6 but the weather didn’t come in until April 22. I’m not sure I would have made a different decision. Our PR is bad enough, it can’t handle comments like yours. We are unappreciated and blamed enough. Bad practices from the past from logging, forest management and homeowners have every incident like this pointing the finger at us. Unfortunately we are the ones in the public eye not the forest supervisors, regional chiefs or the suits in Washington DC who make decisions how to manage the land. We are their whipping boys/girls. I don’t have a life, miss my kids growing up and I don’t get paid enough to take the abuse from anyone armchair quarterbacking.
 
AZGuy The CA. Air quality board stopped the Feds from doing control burns on Federal park lands at Sequoia National Park because it polluted the air. As a result a large fire there nearly destroyed the giant redwood trees this year.
RELH
This can happen, but an a statewide burn ban is wishful thinking.
 
90% of our fires are human caused, either by arsonists or totally irresponsible people. I think we should start there, but yes, correct forest management would prevent most mega fires.
You mean that Newsome hasn't added a law to stop irresponsible? Dang, he is slacking.
 
AZGuy, I happen to be friends with several U.S. Forest Service employees that had a part in Forest Service control burns during the winter time to keep the brush down and prevent major fires.
They have said that CA. has all but shut down control burns on Federal forest land due to air quality reasons.
This started over 20 years ago and now CA. has several major fires per year for the last 6-7 years. CA. politicians listened to the radical enviro freaks who believe in letting nature control everything. As a result we see every year millions of dollars damage to private property and lives lost to out of control major forest fires.
A home owner can not burn a brush pile larger then 4 feet square without paying a 40 dollar fee to the CA. Air quality board and can only burn on days that they allow. Which is few and far in between. The Feds need to tell CA. to stick it where the sun does not shine and have the say so on how their lands will be controlled.
I hope you are not one of those radical enviro. persons that believe that NATURE is the only way to control the environment and forest land.
RELH
 
So, burning down half of NM was public outreach “to make people happy”?

It was a controlled burn on a red flag day. But yeah, I’m the problem :rolleyes:
You're not the problem. Take the Tamarack fire last year in California for example.

 
Eel that official response by Forest Service was plain B.S. When that single tree was burning, one helicopter load of water would have put it out and no need for ground units to go in.
What has saved our area, where I use to live, is that air support is just 35 miles away and they are quick to get on scene when the fire is small. when we had a major fire was when the fire starting during the night time and the winds were 35 mph or higher.
Most of the Forest Service employees that were highly experienced in control burning are retired now and have been replaced by employees that do not know what they are doing.
RELH
 
Tell us some more when-I-was-a-kid stories eel.
Right after I graduated high school I got hired as a forest fire fighter stationed at Klamath, CA. If we weren't fighting fire, we were at the station training, washing the fire truck, or raking the forest around the fire station. We thought everybody did that. The station never burned down while I was there.
 
While Forest Service employees elsewhere may claim they know what happens in California I can tell you unless they work there they aren’t speaking from experience. Sure California doesn’t burn as much as Midwest or eastern states but the fuels and burn windows are different there. Burning does happen every year, I can promise you that.

As for the experience gone and retired that part is definitely hard to argue but not to the point that they’re left with people who don’t know what they’re doing. Old timers don’t have the experience with these crazy fires as much as the new guy, since they didn’t have them most of their career.

As for the response from the agency, BS, of course it’s a government agency. I’m not defending, but whether you work for the government or not I wouldn’t think anyone on this forum would be surprised that the government would dance around the facts trying to point blame somewhere else or at least hide the whole truth to avoid the embarrassment. The leadership at the top should be embarrassed, if for nothing else than the way they manage their employees.
 
Right after I graduated high school I got hired as a forest fire fighter stationed at Klamath, CA. If we weren't fighting fire, we were at the station training, washing the fire truck, or raking the forest around the fire station. We thought everybody did that. The station never burned down while I was there.
Me and a buddy got in trouble for the opposite…..we burned the weeds around the fuel tanks. Way easier than a hoe.
 
RELH, I just realized the comment about friends of the Forest service saying they don’t burn much anymore. I correct my statement about them not knowing what happens in CA but curious what forests they work on (not asking you to divulge). The forests that I know still burn as much as the weather will allow. Air quality definitely dictates burn status but I’d say more limited to weather and the possibility of having control issues
 
AZGuy, I happen to be friends with several U.S. Forest Service employees that had a part in Forest Service control burns during the winter time to keep the brush down and prevent major fires.
They have said that CA. has all but shut down control burns on Federal forest land due to air quality reasons.
This started over 20 years ago and now CA. has several major fires per year for the last 6-7 years. CA. politicians listened to the radical enviro freaks who believe in letting nature control everything. As a result we see every year millions of dollars damage to private property and lives lost to out of control major forest fires.
A home owner can not burn a brush pile larger then 4 feet square without paying a 40 dollar fee to the CA. Air quality board and can only burn on days that they allow. Which is few and far in between. The Feds need to tell CA. to stick it where the sun does not shine and have the say so on how their lands will be controlled.
I hope you are not one of those radical enviro. persons that believe that NATURE is the only way to control the environment and forest land.
RELH
They can still take an indirect approach to suppression on all natural starts and manage for resource benefit and then there are no smoke compliance issues. And no, I am pro fire, planned and unplanned!
 
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It’s a great idea in theory but only works in a very small area in Northern California. The wildland urban interface is spread across nearly the entire state. Also fires don’t burn in any other state as they do in California and the urban interface is unlike any other state
 
It’s a great idea in theory but only works in a very small area in Northern California. The wildland urban interface is spread across nearly the entire state. Also fires don’t burn in any other state as they do in California and the urban interface is unlike any other state
Please explain what you mean by “fires don’t burn in any other state as they do in CA”.
 
Bluehair the brush in a good portion of our forest in CA. is very thick and 6-8 feet high. It burns so hot that it kills everything in it's path. It even creates it's own firestorm and will create fires 1/4-1/2 mile in front of the main fire if the wind is blowing.
RELH
 
Fire fighting has become a business, that's an issue unto itself. What incentive is there to put yourself out of business?
Please do not start accusing anyone of allowing fires to burn for profit. I assume you are making the comment because you are ignorant so I’ll stop there.
 
Are you insinuating that there is zero profit in firefighting? I never accused anyone of letting fires burn for profit.
 
Bluehair the brush in a good portion of our forest in CA. is very thick and 6-8 feet high. It burns so hot that it kills everything in it's path. It even creates it's own firestorm and will create fires 1/4-1/2 mile in front of the main fire if the wind is blowing.
RELH
There is brush in every state. I guess the firefighters who died in CO and AZ …….never mind. Everyone should know when to shut up.
 
bluehair, I lived for 37 years in the foothill area of the Sierra mountains in Northern CA. Our liberal Democrat politicians passed a tax that made me and everyone else living in the forest area under CAL Fire jurisdiction pay a $135.00 per year tax for FIRE SUPPRESSION and we did not see any work towards fire suppression by the state. After 2 or 3 years the courts ruled it a illegal tax, but we never got our money back from the state.
Has those people in CO. & AZ. been paying a fire suppression tax and the forest still not managed like we had here.
RELH
 
The laws of physics don’t change when you cross into that special place you call home. Flat earthers all around the globe can agree on that.
 
There is brush in every state. I guess the firefighters who died in CO and AZ …….never mind. Everyone should know when to shut up.
Yeah and that would be you. The job is inherently dangerous no matter where it’s done, but CO and AZ and all of the other states don’t have fires like CA does. I’m a wildland firefighter, 21 years, I’m telling you it’s different. If you can’t rap you head around it that’s ok it won’t change anything.
Are you insinuating that there is zero profit in firefighting? I never accused anyone of letting fires burn for profit.
I guess I profit since it is my job (low wages) but what experience with all of this profit do you speak. Millions are spent every year on suppression and repair of values lost.
 
I guess I profit since it is my job (low wages) but what experience with all of this profit do you speak. Millions are spent every year on suppression and repair of values lost.
Every single person employed in any capacity of a fire fighting operation makes a profit, including myself in the past. How many volunteer fire fighters are there in a large scale wildfire? How much does it cost to contract a helicopter to fly in fresh, hot tri-tip to the Hot Shot crews twice daily?
 
Our fire fighting tactics have become very soft. We no longer staff the many USFS work camps that are located remotely throughout the forests. Most have closed or been torn down. These were once staffed and folks who took great pride on snuffing out any source of smoke long before they became an issue.
I was camped in the Mendocino when the August complex started. Hunters put out several spot fires. The only response for the many spot fires from the USFS was one guy in a pick up truck who would scratch a line around it and move on to the next one. I don’t fault him at all. He was working his ass of with out proper help. 2 of the spots blew up when the wind picked up the next day. Had they sent crews to take care of them would we have seen the million acre monster? We have become too soft.
How often do we actually go direct in our tactics?
 
Well I’ll tell you if you think things are bad now imagine there are no firefighters to do any of it. Between the lack of support from people like you guys and the lack of support from our government, the little pay we do profit from is ridiculous and is one major reason many have left already. Damned if we do and damned if we don’t. Spot fires and all they had to do is send a crew? What crew? You don’t think we weren’t spread thin? Did you think it was ignored on purpose? Here we haven’t become soft, we are as aggressive as ever, probably more so. We work insane amounts of overtime just in case something happens so we can send the world to it. If you can’t open your eyes on what’s really going on and take it from someone with experience then there is no hope for you. Liberal mindset I guess. Follow your fake news you hear and spread about something you don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
 
The laws of physics don't change, but different conditions exist in all states, and California is no different. We have vast expanses of Chapparral https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/fire_regimes/CA_chaparral/all.html

Throw in the Santa Anna winds and we have an explosive situation every year. Similar to what Colorado experienced last year.

But no fire will burn if it doesn't get started in the first place and very few want to even discuss that.

And yes, forest fires are big business, especially now with the green new deal and climate change. There is big big money at stake. If you don't believe it, explain this.

 
Nobody was blaming the hard working guys on the ground. We are blaming the policy makers and bureaucracy. The fact that several large fires were left to burn as single tree strikes and turned into large fires. The policies that say we don’t have enough money to staff out national forests but we have billions to send over seas. Those are the issues and frustrations.
 
We have those benign pj’s here. No btu’s here……move along.

Hey CA dudes, there is steep terrain and challenging environmental conditions in all the rocky mountain states.

It’s a challenging job for no pay. I get it. And it’s dangerous everywhere, just not California.

 
fires burn past the 95th percentile in extreme drought conditions in every western state most years, CA is not the exception.
I can tell you most smart firefighters go elsewhere because the wages are enough to put food on the table.

Burn it, log it or lose it.
 
Yeah and that would be you. The job is inherently dangerous no matter where it’s done, but CO and AZ and all of the other states don’t have fires like CA does. I’m a wildland firefighter, 21 years, I’m telling you it’s different. If you can’t rap you head around it that’s ok it won’t change anything.
Tell that to the residents of Boulder County that had that fire that destroyed hundreds of homes back December 30 2021.
California might be the king of big fires but Colorado fires on the front range explosive they can go from a few hundred acres in the morning and be 40000 to 50000 by the time the sun sets.
 
Tell that to the residents of Boulder County that had that fire that destroyed hundreds of homes back December 30 2021.
California might be the king of big fires but Colorado fires on the front range explosive they can go from a few hundred acres in the morning and be 40000 to 50000 by the time the sun sets.
I never said there weren’t big, destructive fires outside of CA. I’ve been coast to coast fighting wildland fire for 21 years. You all can keep this up I’m done.
 
I think you’re taking this way too personally. Whether CA fires are superior to fires in other states is an interesting topic, because that really speaks directly to fuel management tactics in response to environmental conditions.

Anyway, be safe out there and I appreciate the efforts to protect everyone’s property (y)
 
I'm in northwest CA right on the ocean. You couldn't get this place to burn even with a napalm attack, but 40 miles inland they are struggling.

Six Rivers Lightning Complex Threatens More Than 700 Humboldt Homes as It Nears 11,000 Acres, Remains 0 Percent Contained​


Yes. That poor area receives very little firefighting support. Classic let it burn mantra.
 
Sad sad day in the firefighting community. Fatality yesterday on my son's HotShot crew.

The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office, jointly with the United States Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management, is saddened to announce the passing of a wildland firefighter assigned to the Big Swamp Fire near Oakridge, Oregon.
On Wednesday, August 10, 2022, shortly after 12:30 pm, 9-1-1 dispatchers received information regarding a wildland firefighter that was critically injured after being struck by a tree. Umpqua Valley Ambulance and REACH Air Medical Services were dispatched to the scene. Despite lifesaving efforts by EMS personnel assigned to the fire, the firefighter, 27-year-old Collin Hagan of Toivola, Michigan succumbed to his injuries. Hagan was a wildland firefighter assigned to the Craig Interagency Hotshot Crew based out of Craig, Colorado.
Once the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office and Douglas County Medical Examiner’s Office were notified, Hagan’s body was flown from the Toketee Airstrip to the Roseburg Regional Airport by REACH Air Medical Services helicopter. Firefighters from the Bureau of Land Management, United States Forest Service, Roseburg Fire Department and Douglas County Fire District #2 stood together to honor Hagan as his body arrived and was transferred to the care of a funeral service provider. The firefighters then provided an honor escort to the funeral home.
“It is a sad day in public safety.” Sheriff John Hanlin said. “On behalf of the men and women of the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office, I extend my heartfelt sympathies to Firefighter Hagan’s family, friends, co-workers and all who knew this brave young man.”
 
Yes. That poor area receives very little firefighting support. Classic let it burn mantra.
They had fires in that area last year they determined were arsonist set. I never heard any more after that.

High ups in the climate change scam are well pleased at the additional acreage.
 
Sad sad day in the firefighting community. Fatality yesterday on my son's HotShot crew.

The Douglas County Sheriff’s Office, jointly with the United States Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management, is saddened to announce the passing of a wildland firefighter assigned to the Big Swamp Fire near Oakridge, Oregon.
On Wednesday, August 10, 2022, shortly after 12:30 pm, 9-1-1 dispatchers received information regarding a wildland firefighter that was critically injured after being struck by a tree. Umpqua Valley Ambulance and REACH Air Medical Services were dispatched to the scene. Despite lifesaving efforts by EMS personnel assigned to the fire, the firefighter, 27-year-old Collin Hagan of Toivola, Michigan succumbed to his injuries. Hagan was a wildland firefighter assigned to the Craig Interagency Hotshot Crew based out of Craig, Colorado.
Once the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office and Douglas County Medical Examiner’s Office were notified, Hagan’s body was flown from the Toketee Airstrip to the Roseburg Regional Airport by REACH Air Medical Services helicopter. Firefighters from the Bureau of Land Management, United States Forest Service, Roseburg Fire Department and Douglas County Fire District #2 stood together to honor Hagan as his body arrived and was transferred to the care of a funeral service provider. The firefighters then provided an honor escort to the funeral home.
“It is a sad day in public safety.” Sheriff John Hanlin said. “On behalf of the men and women of the Douglas County Sheriff’s Office, I extend my heartfelt sympathies to Firefighter Hagan’s family, friends, co-workers and all who knew this brave young man.”
Douglas county had zero to do with this. Not one hotshot from Craig would ever want Douglas county saying squat about them.
 

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