Youre not a hunter

MountainSqwabler

Active Member
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I was reading a post from some guy on that (I hunt colordo) group on Facebook. He was ranting about how he believed hunting with an outfitter was lazy. He also went about and made claims stating that if you hire a guide because "you can't find animals in an area, then you are just a shooter and not a hunter". I looked a little into this guy and found he hunts a ton with a buddy of his. So I stated to him that if he goes hunting with his buddy in an area that he doesn't know, he is not a hunter, but a shooter.

He blocked me after that comment ?
 
I was reading a post from some guy on that (I hunt colordo) group on Facebook. He was ranting about how he believed hunting with an outfitter was lazy. He also went about and made claims stating that if you hire a guide because "you can't find animals in an area, then you are just a shooter and not a hunter". I looked a little into this guy and found he hunts a ton with a buddy of his. So I stated to him that if he goes hunting with his buddy in an area that he doesn't know, he is not a hunter, but a shooter.

He blocked me after that comment ?
Good for you....can't throw rocks in glass houses.
 
D!ck measuring in hunting circles is alive and well… Lots of guys want to compare skill and prowess against some enemy, that they , either know nothing about, or are jealous. It’s ridiculous.

Perfect comparison though. I’ve argued that exact point until I’m blue in the face.

I’ve driven by these guys “DIY, Public land, OTC., Keep-hammering” camps…. Just that guy and his 25 closest friends, cousins, uncles, brothers….. Just doing it all by himself
 
I was reading a post from some guy on that (I hunt colordo) group on Facebook. He was ranting about how he believed hunting with an outfitter was lazy. He also went about and made claims stating that if you hire a guide because "you can't find animals in an area, then you are just a shooter and not a hunter". I looked a little into this guy and found he hunts a ton with a buddy of his. So I stated to him that if he goes hunting with his buddy in an area that he doesn't know, he is not a hunter, but a shooter.

He blocked me after that comment ?
There's a doofus from Colorado who posts that way on bowsite too. Kind of annoying but also kinda humorous, with the blatant self-aggrandizement. Could be the same guy.
 
I actually don’t totally disagree with the guys sentiment. Difference being it’s a personal opinion and why I could never hunt with a guide. I could care less what others do or call hunting but for me I’d feel like a douche being lead around and told what to shoot. Only scenario where I may do it is if a guide was a requirement. Canada might be a good example but with the state of that place now I don’t see myself ever going there
 
I just remember growing up and we all loved to share hunting stories. There was awe of others when they bagged a nice one and also happy for those who put "meat" in their freezer. Now there seems to be a growing schism between hunters not liking others choices for guides, deer maturity or antler measurements, and methods of hunting. The same is happening more than it ever was for political backing. We've become meaner than I've ever known and I'm not spotless in that culture going on.
I'm guilty of many comments I didn't need to spew not only here but on other social media.
As a father I love all my kids whether they make bad choices or good choices. I'm sure I've noticed it before and wanted to do better.
I'm sure that is why Founder doesn't like political fights here. We can't always disagree but throw in jabs and vitriol at times. We may feel certain people need slapped when they don't agree with how we look at things we don't approve or follow along with.
 
I used and outfitter and guide in Canada, Quebec for caribou. Kind of don't have a choice when you're 100 miles from the nearest town. We were on our own as much as we wanted to be though.

I used an "outfitter" once in NE for whitetail and antelope, but that was to access the private ground he had instead of fighting the public on the sparse public around the area I went. Won't do that again - the lad really didn't have his act together.
 
I can honestly say that I have never been disappointed with ANY game animal I have filled a tag with. Most were small and a few were better than average.
Actually....I've lied. There was one I was disappointed with. As a young hunter with a buck antelope and doe antelope tag in my pocket, I snuck in on a group of antelope that were on the fence line. I had to make quick work of taking one of the doe antelope before they ducked under the fence. Right after I shot, my Dad says, "why'd you shoot that one"? As we walked up on the very small buck I had killed, I knew why he asked. I was in such a rush, I filled my buck tag with the "doe" I thought I had shot. LOL. I will never make that mistake again.
 
You're A Doe-Shooter?

I can honestly say that I have never been disappointed with ANY game animal I have filled a tag with. Most were small and a few were better than average.
Actually....I've lied. There was one I was disappointed with. As a young hunter with a buck antelope and doe antelope tag in my pocket, I snuck in on a group of antelope that were on the fence line. I had to make quick work of taking one of the doe antelope before they ducked under the fence. Right after I shot, my Dad says, "why'd you shoot that one"? As we walked up on the very small buck I had killed, I knew why he asked. I was in such a rush, I filled my buck tag with the "doe" I thought I had shot. LOL. I will never make that mistake again.
 
I can honestly say that I have never been disappointed with ANY game animal I have filled a tag with. Most were small and a few were better than average.
Actually....I've lied. There was one I was disappointed with. As a young hunter with a buck antelope and doe antelope tag in my pocket, I snuck in on a group of antelope that were on the fence line. I had to make quick work of taking one of the doe antelope before they ducked under the fence. Right after I shot, my Dad says, "why'd you shoot that one"? As we walked up on the very small buck I had killed, I knew why he asked. I was in such a rush, I filled my buck tag with the "doe" I thought I had shot. LOL. I will never make that mistake again.
"Idiot shoots "buck" antelope" headline reads.

Lol jk wiz, playing off the husky post.
I think we've all made mistakes in the field. At least you had an out!
 
I've been on several outfitted/guided hunts (mostly sheep) when required by law and I've never had anyone tell me which animal to shoot. It turns into a real team effort... like when I hunt with my brother.
Some guides are great and some are okay but to those who say it's not hunting, I way phooey. Throw a backback on and trudge around 100+ miles for 10-12 days and then talk to me about how it's a cake hunt. I've always been part of the planning and decision making. Maybe it's more just who I am.
Lots of machismo in the hunting world and I don't want to make room for it.

Zeke
 
remember it’s the man bun and 6.5 creedmoor that’s makes it count, and your instagram post link to your hour long heavy breathing/ wandering aimlessly in the woods of your self filmed DIY, OTC public land, backcountry big bull down(not) elk hunt video.
Don’t forget your skin tight under armor to show off your chiseled chest and over-worked deltoid’s…this only adds to the wow factor and intensifies the interest of potential insta-anti guide audience.

A good, well-groomed 6” beard tops off the experience and only inspires the younger generation to graduate from 5 O’clock peach fuzz to burly fame and fortune-unguided manliness

A hardy dose of Dr Squatches abrasive Pine Tar soap to the crotch will help speed up the process of becoming the envy of the keep hammering diy hunting community…..(those who claim a guide voids all manliness but secretly envy all who use a guide and lay the smack down on giants).

I don’t care if people use a guide. So long as the guide does things legally and ethically.
 
If hiring a guide and hunting with a buddy are no different, then why spend the $$$$??
Do you just have thousand dollar bills burning a hole in your pocket?

Of course hiring a guide makes hunting easier. Stupid argument. And in a lot of cases, you are simply a trigger.

If you're good with that, great.
 
If hiring a guide and hunting with a buddy are no different, then why spend the $$$$??
Do you just have thousand dollar bills burning a hole in your pocket?

Of course hiring a guide makes hunting easier. Stupid argument. And in a lot of cases, you are simply a trigger.

If you're good with that, great.
Well Hoss,

No one said it's NO different but unless you've been on a couple guided hunts, you can only guess at what a guided hunt is like. My brother doesn't have horses and so, yes, a guided hunt can be "easier".

No doubt there are hunts out there and guides who will turn a hunter into just a trigger but I suppose it has more to do with the hunter's mindset, experience and willingness to be part of the hunt.

What's your guide experience or are you just parroting what some in the gallery want to hear? I suppose unless you're there, you have zero clue and only a misguided opinion.

You were only correct when you said, "stupid argument".

Zeke
 
I've been on several outfitted/guided hunts (mostly sheep) when required by law and I've never had anyone tell me which animal to shoot. It turns into a real team effort... like when I hunt with my brother.
Some guides are great and some are okay but to those who say it's not hunting, I way phooey. Throw a backback on and trudge around 100+ miles for 10-12 days and then talk to me about how it's a cake hunt. I've always been part of the planning and decision making. Maybe it's more just who I am.
Lots of machismo in the hunting world and I don't want to make room for it.

Zeke
I couldn’t agree more, and I’ve only hunted with a guide a few times.

Different, yes but no one can tell me the hunter can’t contribute in a meaningful way.

I’ve never technically guided anyone one but I have accompanied a fair number of hunters who needed/asked for/accepted help, finding a big game animal. Never ever done it to get paid. I did it because I enjoy the hunting, the companionship and satisfaction of helping a friend or someone I felt was in need.

Not every hunter the is the same. Either is every guide. Some guided hunters are not just shooters. Some guided hunters are watching for habitat sign, game sign, wind direction, wind change, classing for game, sharing observations with their guide, as will as accepting the guides comments, observations and pointing out things of significants and animals of interest and other animals influence. Some experienced hunters recognize developing opportunities and start to think ahead and begin to get into a killing frame of mind and their last second gear preparated. Some hunters, who aren’t experienced, don’t recognize habitat, likely environment, weather changing, weather influence, how to see game, how to use glass, where to expect to see game animals, not how to go about getting ready mentally and physically during a developing shot opportunity. They depend entirely on the guide to tell them everything, including, when, where and what to shoot, and they expect that kind of instruction. If a guide tells a hunter to “get ready, some hunters, don’t have a clue what that means”, not out of stupidly or laziness, but out of lack of knowledge and or lack of experience.

Savvy guides recognize which kind of hunter a person is, very quickly, and start quickly to guide according to the individual they are guiding. Inexperienced or ornery guided don’t. The most savvy guide can also tell if they are guiding someone who thinks they know what’s going on but doesn’t. Those of us like that…….. have conflicts with guides the most.

I’ve helped all kinds, both easy and hard guide/help and I’ve tried hard to be easy to guide when it’s been my turn to be the hunter……. Some times it’s hard to be the hunter…… if the guide is a jerk!
 
If hiring a guide and hunting with a buddy are no different, then why spend the $$$$??
Do you just have thousand dollar bills burning a hole in your pocket?

Of course hiring a guide makes hunting easier. Stupid argument. And in a lot of cases, you are simply a trigger.

If you're good with that, great.
How many outfitted hunts have you done? I hope you’re going to say a bunch, for you to be so certain about your opinion. Perhaps YOU are a bump on a log, “Just a trigger”. That certainly doesn’t apply to everyone.

Get over yourself, and your giant sack of pride.
 
Not all guided hunts are the same... I guided elk hunters on private ranches in Colorado and New Mexico where the hunter truly just needed to be a competent shot. I also guided on public land general or OTC areas where the hunter had a much better chance of success if they actively participated in the hunt. Massive difference between the two hunts imo.
 
Not all guided hunts are the same... I guided elk hunters on private ranches in Colorado and New Mexico where the hunter truly just needed to be a competent shot. I also guided on public land general or OTC areas where the hunter had a much better chance of success if they actively participated in the hunt. Massive difference between the two hunts imo.
Yep, not all guides or guided hunts are the same. Just like not all hunters are the same. Some people will still lump them all together because they have no platform of experience from which to speak.

Zeke
 
Well Hoss,

No one said it's NO different but unless you've been on a couple guided hunts, you can only guess at what a guided hunt is like. My brother doesn't have horses and so, yes, a guided hunt can be "easier".

No doubt there are hunts out there and guides who will turn a hunter into just a trigger but I suppose it has more to do with the hunter's mindset, experience and willingness to be part of the hunt.

What's your guide experience or are you just parroting what some in the gallery want to hear? I suppose unless you're there, you have zero clue and only a misguided opinion.

You were only correct when you said, "stupid argument".

Zeke


Here's MY guide experience.

I set camp. I cut firewood. I cook. I pack. I unstuck trucks. I scout. Then I cut meat.

All part of hunting, a part Ive never paid for.

You pay for it.

It's a stupid argument to pretend otherwise, or that you and the guide aren't client/contractor but that your merely equals or friends, whom you pay for the privilege.

Why fork out the cash if how you hunt is the same DIY, or guided?
 
How many outfitted hunts have you done? I hope you’re going to say a bunch, for you to be so certain about your opinion. Perhaps YOU are a bump on a log, “Just a trigger”. That certainly doesn’t apply to everyone.

Get over yourself, and your giant sack of pride.

None. Not one.

Sorry to hurt your pride, but guess what. That guide, doesn't consider you an equal, no matter how "hard core" you are.

He's better than you. That's why you pay him. Quit fooling yourself. He's not your friend. Your just this week's client. And the more he blows smoke up your Azz about how badass you are, the better the tips will be.

Your mechanic, contractor, doctor, landscaper, dentist, etc, feel the same.

If you were as good, or capable as he, then why pay him?

Get butthurt all day, but let's hear the answer.

Your either the hooker, or the john
 
I was reading a post from some guy on that (I hunt colordo) group on Facebook. He was ranting about how he believed hunting with an outfitter was lazy. He also went about and made claims stating that if you hire a guide because "you can't find animals in an area, then you are just a shooter and not a hunter". I looked a little into this guy and found he hunts a ton with a buddy of his. So I stated to him that if he goes hunting with his buddy in an area that he doesn't know, he is not a hunter, but a shooter.

He blocked me after that comment ?

Does he pay his buddy?
 
None. Not one.

Sorry to hurt your pride, but guess what. That guide, doesn't consider you an equal, no matter how "hard core" you are.

He's better than you. That's why you pay him. Quit fooling yourself. He's not your friend. Your just this week's client. And the more he blows smoke up your Azz about how badass you are, the better the tips will be.

Your mechanic, contractor, doctor, landscaper, dentist, etc, feel the same.

If you were as good, or capable as he, then why pay him?

Get butthurt all day, but let's hear the answer.

Your either the hooker, or the john
Do you truly believe that the guide is ONLY there for the money???? Do you realize that many of them do it because they truly love what they do? And that they love taking folks out and helping them? Lol you're a joke.

Are you trying to tell me that my doctor and dentist don't really care about me they just care about the money??? Then why do they go so indepth with some things to get me the best quality care? Oh right....cause they don't care about me, just my money.

And most people inadvertently do "compensate" their buddy's in some way. It may not be paying them thousands of dollars, but they do buy them lunch or snack and pay for gas, etc. But like you said....guides don't give a rats a$$ about any of their hunters, just their money. Many hunters pay guides because they waited 15+years saving up points, and the hunter gets ready to use said points and wants to make sure that they didn't just waist 15 years or more waiting to hunt, to eat tag soup. They use guides because the guide will help their success rate. Some hunters are lucky enough to have buddy's who know the unit they were to hunt in well enough to not need to pay a guide.

It's no different if I got a unit 10 bull tag. I know tons of guys that spend so much time up there every year, so of course I'd ask them to help me out over paying a guide, but using them over the guide only has a money difference. Both know the unit, both know where the animals are.
 
Do you truly believe that the guide is ONLY there for the money???? Do you realize that many of them do it because they truly love what they do? And that they love taking folks out and helping them
Yeah, they drag the out of shape over the hill east coast flat lander up the hill with his brand new long range set up just to watch him f up a 180 yard shot that they know will be a miracle to get him on again for the love of helping folks :LOL: Ok…
 
"They use guides because the guide will help their success rate."


I agree. You 2 keep getting emotional. Guiding is a buisness, same as any other. Doubt it? Don't pay them, see how much they love you then.

There are dudes who really love mechanicing. Really love contracting. Love operating equipment. Don't pay them, see what happens.

To YOU your hunt is the biggest thing that year, or perhaps lifetime. To him, it's just another hunt, with another stranger. Not a knock on him, just reality. Doesn't mean he doesn't like hunting, but he won't have to wait 15 years to do it again, he's doing it next week. With another dude, who's waited 15 years. Followed by another, and another, and another.

And next summer, when your at the lake, and his Azz is up a MTN, living like a hermit scouting, I guarantee he's not thinks about how you are, what your doing. He's getting ready to sell his knowledge, to the next client.

That's just the nature of business.
 
Yeah, they drag the out of shape over the hill east coast flat lander up the hill with his brand new long range set up just to watch him f up a 180 yard shot that they know will be a miracle to get him on again for the love of helping folks :LOL: Ok…

Same dudes who believe their guide is their best bud, and he's never had a client like them, send Nigerian princes money to free up the royal fortune.
 
No reason to get personal guys.

I absolutely loathed some of my clients through the years. I also have some guys that I stay in touch with and consider friends. Yes they were paying clients but they were good people. Guiding them felt more like hunting with a buddy.

Guiding is a business and on the average hunt, the guide does drastically increase the hunters chances. However, like I stated above, not all hunts are equal. Many times a hunter is paying for property access more than they are someone to hold their hand. In some of those situations, my job as a guide was to simply keep hunters spread out for safety and herd management reasons.

Is there a big difference between guided and unguided, of course. However it isn't what some of you are making it out to be.

I'll ask this to those of you that are very critical- If a buddy offered to take you to his private ranch so you could hunt, would it really be much different other than a money exchange?
 
contractor gives away free drywall and calls it even with a duck hunt? guess it gets more to hoss's point with eels comment. these guys (just like contractors) are hanging out with you for the money, not the friendship.

im in the construction business. i wouldn't have a cup of coffee with the clients i have if i wasn't getting paid to. just the way it is
 
contractor gives away free drywall and calls it even with a duck hunt? guess it gets more to hoss's point with eels comment. these guys (just like contractors) are hanging out with you for the money, not the friendship.

im in the construction business. i wouldn't have a cup of coffee with the clients i have if i wasn't getting paid to. just the way it is
In life, we meet people in hundreds of different ways, under countless circumstances. Sometimes we meet new people at a party, some in a bar, some at church, some at the lake, some at work, some on vacation, a few on the MM Forum. A few become long term acquaintances, very few become friends and we’re damn lucky if even a half dozen, out of the thousands we meet become lifelong friends that become more than a cup of coffee at breakfast, so we’re all just like you JP.
 
I had an aquaintance once who told me, “If your phone’s, not ringing……….it’s me not calling”.

I appreciated his candor, he saved me wasting my time on an unwanted relationship.
 
No reason to get personal guys.

I absolutely loathed some of my clients through the years. I also have some guys that I stay in touch with and consider friends. Yes they were paying clients but they were good people. Guiding them felt more like hunting with a buddy.

Guiding is a business and on the average hunt, the guide does drastically increase the hunters chances. However, like I stated above, not all hunts are equal. Many times a hunter is paying for property access more than they are someone to hold their hand. In some of those situations, my job as a guide was to simply keep hunters spread out for safety and herd management reasons.

Is there a big difference between guided and unguided, of course. However it isn't what some of you are making it out to be.

I'll ask this to those of you that are very critical- If a buddy offered to take you to his private ranch so you could hunt, would it really be much different other than a money exchange?


I rarely find my buddies by cold calling a phone #. Nor do I usually need to make upfront deposits to be a buddy.



I have folks I've done work for that I like. Some I'm friendly with.

But none that I go work for free for.

Would you guide for free?

It's not personal. But I'm guessing, that guide in his free time, is hunting with his actual buddies and fam.

Sure there's dudes you like. Dudes who are better than others. But the checks the same either way. Being better prepared benefits the client, the guide is prepared for either type
 
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Several of my drywall buddies consistently run 30-60 days behind on their bills. They say the reason is because they can't get the clients to pay, once they are done with the work. They have all started asking 30-50% deposits up front, just so they can get materials anymore!!!
 
Several of my drywall buddies consistently run 30-60 days behind on their bills. They say the reason is because they can't get the clients to pay, once they are done with the work. They have all started asking 30-50% deposits up front, just so they can get materials anymore!!!

Been around drywall since I was born. I can count on 2hands the ones I'd trust with money, and I'd have enough fingers left to hold a coffee cup??

We earned our reputation as a trade, unfortunately
 
I rarely find my buddies by cold calling a phone #. Nor do I usually need to make upfront deposits to be a buddy.



I have folks I've done work for that I like. Some I'm friendly with.

But none that I go work for free for.

Would you guide for free?

It's not personal. But I'm guessing, that guide in his free time, is hunting with his actual buddies and fam.

Sure there's dudes you like. Dudes who are better than others. But the checks the same either way. Being better prepared benefits the client, the guide is prepared for either type
You cold call phone numbers to try to find buddies?

Just kidding and I get where you are coming from. As I said, there is definitely a difference between DIY and guided but, at least in some situations, it isn't all that much different than some "diy" guys who heavily rely on the friends.

I "guide" quite a few friends for free every year. They are people I like spending time with- I just happen to be a bit better at hunting. Those same friends return the favors with skills they have.
 
You cold call phone numbers to try to find buddies?

Just kidding and I get where you are coming from. As I said, there is definitely a difference between DIY and guided but, at least in some situations, it isn't all that much different than some "diy" guys who heavily rely on the friends.

I "guide" quite a few friends for free every year. They are people I like spending time with- I just happen to be a bit better at hunting. Those same friends return the favors with skills they have.

I'm old enough to remember dudes calling 976 phone numbers looking for girlfriends ?


Anyone with a trade, and guiding is one, does work for friends and family.

Small buisness guys, especially blue collar ones, have a pretty clear understanding of this subject. They understand the very direct line from customer/client and being paid.

I've done mud work for folks who hung their own sheetrock. Some do good, others are horrible. None are as good as a professional hanger. Ya, the dude that does a good job, and gives you a cold beer, you like, but at the end of the day, the good dude, and the horrible dude paid for a quality job, and that's what I effort to give them.

And I'm great seeing them at the HS football game, or auto parts store and shooting the chit.
 
None. Not one.

Sorry to hurt your pride, but guess what. That guide, doesn't consider you an equal, no matter how "hard core" you are.

He's better than you. That's why you pay him. Quit fooling yourself. He's not your friend. Your just this week's client. And the more he blows smoke up your Azz about how badass you are, the better the tips will be.

Your mechanic, contractor, doctor, landscaper, dentist, etc, feel the same.

If you were as good, or capable as he, then why pay him?

Get butthurt all day, but let's hear the answer.

Your either the hooker, or the john
Thank you for clarifying, that you are simply spouting off about something that you know nothing about. I appreciate the honesty.

I hope we can share a campfire one day, so we can measure…..
 
i think people who get guides need to be a little more honest with themselves. there’s nothing wrong with it and i hope to one day draw a tag in which i consider getting a guide. at that point i’ll have to be very honest with myself and humble about the decision. until then i’ll stick to wandering aimlessly through the woods
 
A friend dad is into hotrod. Built some very nice cars. He used to do the car show thing, but after a few years he grew pretty tired watching dudes who were professional builders, with multiple sponsors constantly dominating against guys that were DIY.

Seems the same as guiding. I'm wa more impressed with guys like Founder who yearly get on big deer, than anyone Mossback guides.

I'd agree with others. Setting camps, cooking, hauling, butchering are all part of hunting. If you're hiring someone to do that, ya, your less than the guys who do it all, and still smack big animals.

My.02
 
A friend dad is into hotrod. Built some very nice cars. He used to do the car show thing, but after a few years he grew pretty tired watching dudes who were professional builders, with multiple sponsors constantly dominating against guys that were DIY.

Seems the same as guiding. I'm wa more impressed with guys like Founder who yearly get on big deer, than anyone Mossback guides.

I'd agree with others. Setting camps, cooking, hauling, butchering are all part of hunting. If you're hiring someone to do that, ya, your less than the guys who do it all, and still smack big animals.

My.02
So……. I’ll see your .02 and raise ya .02 more.

What about guys that do both DYI and GMD……… what’s your impression of those ole boys. Or is it like race, one drop of blood and your a GMD forever and so is the rest of yer posterity?

Regarding hotrod contests. It’s a simple solution, for the memberships in these HOTROD contests/events: Handcape’em.

Hell team ropers have even figured that out. We got high school kids and 70 year old women making thousands of bucks a year now days, and they are way slower than the15 that back in the box at the NFR.

Maybe our Fish and Game Departments need to starting handicapping hunting tags. The more your willing to pay, the more challenging your competitive hunters need to be, like, if you get guided by Wade Lemmon, you have to only hunt a unit with other guys that are being guided by MossBack, Shane Scott, Paul Phillips, Tyler Sims, Bald Mountain, Big Chino, and hundreds of other.

Stranger things have………. Sky’s the limit when it comes to game management and hunter options.

Right now, where as I’ve hunting DYI and GMD, I’m not sure how I should feel, like a half breed, a quarter breed or a trans-breed. I think Founder needs a new Theme, safe space room, for us transguided, misguided and deeply confused members. eel has clearly got issues now that he’s out of the closet too. There are countless other who would come out too, if they knew we had a safe space to go.

Your bet.
 
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I'm just more into honesty than the contest aspect of the subject.

100% hunting from nuts to bolts, is different than being lead around, or in id bet the majority of cases, carried around. That's just a fact.

I've been to a pheasant farm. I walked a bunch. Brought my own dog. Shot my own gun. But it wasn't hunting.

But here's a bump. I'd prefer guiding on public land be banned to start with
 
I'm just more into honesty than the contest aspect of the subject.

100% hunting from nuts to bolts, is different than being lead around, or in id bet the majority of cases, carried around. That's just a fact.

I've been to a pheasant farm. I walked a bunch. Brought my own dog. Shot my own gun. But it wasn't hunting.

But here's a bump. I'd prefer guiding on public land be banned to start with
Pheasent hunting in general isn't hunting haha and going to a pheasant farm is even worse, so you can't compare that to anything...they place fhe bird and you walk and flush it..

And if you're saying thay guided hunts on public should be banned, then you should not be able to take your friends or anyone else hunting in an area on public land unless they already know the area. The only difference between you taking them and a guide taking them is you pay the guide.
 
Can’t see where there is any dishonesty in any of your comments, your’s or any others. Where is the dishonest in GMD or HotRod contest/shows/awards.

I having more money or access to more money……….. I’ll wager your money is greater than tens of thousands of other humans money, that make you dishonest?
 
Pheasent hunting in general isn't hunting haha and going to a pheasant farm is even worse, so you can't compare that to anything...they place fhe bird and you walk and flush it..

And if you're saying thay guided hunts on public should be banned, then you should not be able to take your friends or anyone else hunting in an area on public land unless they already know the area. The only difference between you taking them and a guide taking them is you pay the guide.


So the difference is amateurs vs professional?


Ya. Kinda the point.

One is a commercial buisness. One isn't.
 
I have no issue with using a guide or anyone that does. The majority of my hunts are DIY, but depending on my available time or for the experience I will pay for a guided hunt.
Maybe 15 years ago I paid for a guided Rio hunt in OK to take my dad. He had never been out of state to hunt anything & I wanted him to have a great experience. He had so much fun, we booked with that guide for several years in a row. He & his son are now friends of ours. Great people & they refer to us as family. At his place, he is essentially just providing a place to hunt. He drops you off at a property or tells you which one to go to. If a novice hunter comes into camp, he will take them out & call a bird in, but most of his hunters are seasoned turkey hunters that return year after year. Now, every year we go back he asks me to come out & guide for him & I have done a few hunts to help him out. It’s not out of the question down the road, because I think I would enjoy it. My closest friends all refer to me as “The guide” anyway, so who knows.
Don’t judge someone before knowing the circumstances or someone’s reason for booking a guide. Not to sound cocky, but I’m a bonafide turkey murderer & I don’t need any help at all hunting them. Booking that hunt for my dad turned out to be a great experience from memories with my dad that I will cherish forever to making some great new friends.
 
I have no issue with using a guide or anyone that does. The majority of my hunts are DIY, but depending on my available time or for the experience I will pay for a guided hunt.
Maybe 15 years ago I paid for a guided Rio hunt in OK to take my dad. He had never been out of state to hunt anything & I wanted him to have a great experience. He had so much fun, we booked with that guide for several years in a row. He & his son are now friends of ours. Great people & they refer to us as family. At his place, he is essentially just providing a place to hunt. He drops you off at a property or tells you which one to go to. If a novice hunter comes into camp, he will take them out & call a bird in, but most of his hunters are seasoned turkey hunters that return year after year. Now, every year we go back he asks me to come out & guide for him & I have done a few hunts to help him out. It’s not out of the question down the road, because I think I would enjoy it. My closest friends all refer to me as “The guide” anyway, so who knows.
Don’t judge someone before knowing the circumstances or someone’s reason for booking a guide. Not to sound cocky, but I’m a bonafide turkey murderer & I don’t need any help at all hunting them. Booking that hunt for my dad turned out to be a great experience from memories with my dad that I will cherish forever to making some great new friends.
Obviously you’re incompetent, according to a few U-tards that only hunt their backyard, for the last 35 years…. Sheesh, just embrace it
 
We all know that Utah does not have any guided hunts, they simply have hunter catering services provided by their local missionaries. Them boys probably carry the hunters to and from their hunting stands.
 
I don't have a problem with guys being guided, to each their own. With that said I think 3/4 of the fun is the scouting, research, work, and satisfaction of doing it on your own. When someone is guided I think they miss a big part of the experience. I'm also not that social and even if I like the guide I don't like having to feel pressured to hunt how they hunt.

DIY guys hunting public land, in general have bigger ballsacks....
 
Hypothetical question
Hossblur has a mature bull tag on the Fish Lake unit and did some scouting but really did not find what he was hoping for. The two kings of Fish Lake BigJohn and 2lumpy say come with us we will led you right two a 400" bull. 2lumpy will even make his world famous ? biscuits and grave for breakfast before we go out.
Sure enough hossblur goes with Bigjohn and 2lumpy and kills a 400" elk.
Part 2
notdonhunting has a Pahvant mature bull elk tag and did some scouting and had a couple bulls found but he shows up for the first day and can not find a bull. notdonhunting runs into Doyle Moss the second day of the hunt and notdonhunting tells Doyle he can't find a bull so old Moss back says I got my client a bull already and I have nothing better to do so he says meet me at Mom's Cafe at 6am we will have Mom's world famous biscuits and gravy and then go kill a 400" bull and that is exactly what happens.
So is notdonhunting less of a hunter than hossblur because he went with Doyle and hossblur went with a couple of friends?
 
Hypothetical question
Hossblur has a mature bull tag on the Fish Lake unit and did some scouting but really did not find what he was hoping for. The two kings of Fish Lake BigJohn and 2lumpy say come with us we will led you right two a 400" bull. 2lumpy will even make his world famous ? biscuits and grave for breakfast before we go out.
Sure enough hossblur goes with Bigjohn and 2lumpy and kills a 400" elk.
Part 2
notdonhunting has a Pahvant mature bull elk tag and did some scouting and had a couple bulls found but he shows up for the first day and can not find a bull. notdonhunting runs into Doyle Moss the second day of the hunt and notdonhunting tells Doyle he can't find a bull so old Moss back says I got my client a bull already and I have nothing better to do so he says meet me at Mom's Cafe at 6am we will have Mom's world famous biscuits and gravy and then go kill a 400" bull and that is exactly what happens.
So is notdonhunting less of a hunter than hossblur because he went with Doyle and hossblur went with a couple of friends?
Excellent hypothetical.

Both are hunters. There is a difference though, in my mind.

Analogy:

It'd be like playing pickup basketball- in one instance your friend plays with you and is either lucky or played high school ball and is pretty good. You really enjoyed winning that game.

In the other instance, Charles Barkley happens by and you get him. Ya, you win the game all right. Now, would I feel bad for having played with Sir Charles? Naa- that was fun. Would I feel the same thrill of winning the game? Not so much.

It's not about how much of a hunter you are. For me, it's about the certainty or lack thereof. A buddy who finds a nice buck is "lucky" for you. A pro who finds a nice buck- is "expected".
 
Obviously you’re incompetent, according to a few U-tards that only hunt their backyard, for the last 35 years…. Sheesh, just embrace it
??? You have either been trolling some old posts or you have one hell of a memory.
I don’t even remember that guys handle, but some folks crack me up. It’s definitely a Utah thing… Not all, but definitely something different there. ???
 
Pheasent hunting in general isn't hunting haha and going to a pheasant farm is even worse, so you can't compare that to anything...they place fhe bird and you walk and flush it..

And if you're saying thay guided hunts on public should be banned, then you should not be able to take your friends or anyone else hunting in an area on public land unless they already know the area. The only difference between you taking them and a guide taking them is you pay the guide.


That's a pretty big difference
 
Hypothetical question
Hossblur has a mature bull tag on the Fish Lake unit and did some scouting but really did not find what he was hoping for. The two kings of Fish Lake BigJohn and 2lumpy say come with us we will led you right two a 400" bull. 2lumpy will even make his world famous ? biscuits and grave for breakfast before we go out.
Sure enough hossblur goes with Bigjohn and 2lumpy and kills a 400" elk.
Part 2
notdonhunting has a Pahvant mature bull elk tag and did some scouting and had a couple bulls found but he shows up for the first day and can not find a bull. notdonhunting runs into Doyle Moss the second day of the hunt and notdonhunting tells Doyle he can't find a bull so old Moss back says I got my client a bull already and I have nothing better to do so he says meet me at Mom's Cafe at 6am we will have Mom's world famous biscuits and gravy and then go kill a 400" bull and that is exactly what happens.
So is notdonhunting less of a hunter than hossblur because he went with Doyle and hossblur went with a couple of friends?

Sure, in that scenario there's little difference except I doubt lumpy rocks a mullet.


But now let's be honest.


Hossblur spent 20years trying to draw that tag. Finally did. Spent the spring and summer scouting, talking with dwr, making friends with cowboys and herders. Finds a couple real good bulls.

He then heads down a few days before the opener, with his brother and buddy,to find hordes of flatbrimmers in every canyon, but concentrated in one, sitting on one of those bulls because Doyle has a client flying in who bought the tag at a banquet, who has never seen the Fishlake, let alone set foot on it.

Hossblur sets up camp, makes dinner, gets to bed early so he can roll early. All night dudes are up and down the canyon, each sure they will collect the finders fee for a bull the client saw on a zoom call.

Hossblur and his 2 are sitting on top of a canyon as the sun comes up, watching a herd of cows filter up the ridge, with a monster bull trailing them. As he gets ready to shoot, a shot rings out, the bull drops, and throughout the canyon celebration yells erupt as out of the trees comes an army of spotters, sitters, and guides.

Eventually the shooter waddles up to the bull, sits 40 yards back for a glory Pic. He then hands out $100 bills to the small army. Then he and Doyle head down the mtn while the army cuts, and skins the elk, then packs it down to the truck where the client has been drinking coffee and sitting in a chair.


Another glory shot of antlers in the truck bed, and the client is whisked off to the airport so he can fly to Colorado to hunt deer.

Hossblur later gets another bull, where he and his 2 spend 2 days packing it out. They then break camp, head home, and spend another day cutting meat.

During butchering, hossblur sees Doyle's IG where he hashtags 40 companies, talks about all the conservation done with the money, then talks about how the client grinded out a brutal camp to connect on an incredible shot on a fabulous bull.


But sure, I'm sure Doyle is sitting around the Cafe waiting Hopefully for a random dude to want to go hunting
 
Sure, in that scenario there's little difference except I doubt lumpy rocks a mullet.


But now let's be honest.


Hossblur spent 20years trying to draw that tag. Finally did. Spent the spring and summer scouting, talking with dwr, making friends with cowboys and herders. Finds a couple real good bulls.

He then heads down a few days before the opener, with his brother and buddy,to find hordes of flatbrimmers in every canyon, but concentrated in one, sitting on one of those bulls because Doyle has a client flying in who bought the tag at a banquet, who has never seen the Fishlake, let alone set foot on it.

Hossblur sets up camp, makes dinner, gets to bed early so he can roll early. All night dudes are up and down the canyon, each sure they will collect the finders fee for a bull the client saw on a zoom call.

Hossblur and his 2 are sitting on top of a canyon as the sun comes up, watching a herd of cows filter up the ridge, with a monster bull trailing them. As he gets ready to shoot, a shot rings out, the bull drops, and throughout the canyon celebration yells erupt as out of the trees comes an army of spotters, sitters, and guides.

Eventually the shooter waddles up to the bull, sits 40 yards back for a glory Pic. He then hands out $100 bills to the small army. Then he and Doyle head down the mtn while the army cuts, and skins the elk, then packs it down to the truck where the client has been drinking coffee and sitting in a chair.


Another glory shot of antlers in the truck bed, and the client is whisked off to the airport so he can fly to Colorado to hunt deer.

Hossblur later gets another bull, where he and his 2 spend 2 days packing it out. They then break camp, head home, and spend another day cutting meat.

During butchering, hossblur sees Doyle's IG where he hashtags 40 companies, talks about all the conservation done with the money, then talks about how the client grinded out a brutal camp to connect on an incredible shot on a fabulous bull.


But sure, I'm sure Doyle is sitting around the Cafe waiting Hopefully for a random dude to want to go hunting


My 11yr old, 16yr old, 3 inlaws. Would cost me a bunch of beer.

Other than that, you nailed it
 
Hikehunt61 & Keystone you bolth made a good point.
But hikehunt61 sorry two Kings of Fish Lake beats one Joker of the Pahvant
Depends who ya ask notdone, depends entirely who ya ask.

I wouldn’t want to offend BigJohn but, backed in a corner, I’d recommend one Joker, and his better company anyhow!

Here’s the deal, an you know it’s true, if I’m showing ya around…… all you’re gonna hear from me is how crappy our F& G are managing our hunters, MossBack is going to be telling you how great the hunting is and show you picture after picture of his clients monster bucks and bulls. Which would you prefer……???
 
Depends who ya ask notdone, depends entirely who ya ask.

I wouldn’t want to offend BigJohn but, backed in a corner, I’d recommend one Joker, and his better company anyhow!

Here’s the deal, an you know it’s true, if I’m showing ya around…… all you’re gonna hear from me is how crappy our F& G are managing our hunters, MossBack is going to be telling you how great the hunting is and show you picture after picture of his clients monster bucks and bulls. Which would you prefer……???
I would call it one of them cup half full vs half empty kind of talks but we know it's not just about being optimistic for old Mossback it is more about selling another hunt.
By the way how is your biscuits and gravy?
 
Yep, great camp breakfast. Seasoned sausage and potatoes with bacon gravy with fried eggs.
496B0E1A-DB38-4911-B0E2-8DA65BA37D20.jpeg
 
I did say it was hypothetical but your right hoss doesn't shoot one of them long range setups with one of the latest and greatest calibers.


Browning A bolt, 30-06, Leupold vari xI.

Got for Xmas 32yrs ago.

Sling is off my dad's gun,(he died), so that's the piece of him I carry with me each year.

To be fair, I did quit shooting Corelokts ten years ago so I'm pretty fancy?
 
Browning A bolt, 30-06, Leupold vari xI.

Got for Xmas 32yrs ago.

Sling is off my dad's gun,(he died), so that's the piece of him I carry with me each year.

To be fair, I did quit shooting Corelokts ten years ago so I'm pretty fancy?So Hossy? You Did Listen To Me Once?
 

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