New Elk Management Plan

I need to review in more detail, but after a quick review of the materials, I am really curious to understand what you feel archery hunters are getting that is so far and above other weapon types??

I only see a proposal to move archery opening and closing dates to 4 days later than it is currently (nice but not all that great to be honest). Archery permits on the LE hunts are still at 25% allocation while rifle hunters get 60%. It also looks like archery hunters will now only be able to harvest a bull on a general archery elk tag instead of either sex. Seems like there will be some give and take by all, which is fair.

What are you seeing that makes you feel archers are benefiting so much more than others with this new plan?
 
These proposals might make a few people mad.

v. Adjusting the length of the early any legal weapon traditional limited-entry elk hunt to 5 days (loss of hunting days)

vii. include December archery hunts on limited-entry units (August to mid-November wasn't enough)

i. Antlerless elk permits would be valid only during stated season dates. (no more using your cow tag during the deer hunt)

ii. General-season archery elk permits would be bull-only permits.
(bye bye either sex tags.)
 

This ought to cause some discussion. Archery hunters get so many benefits in Utah. Maybe it's time for EVERYONE to pick up a bow and start benefiting from those perks this minority of hunters has been able to fenagle.
Haha not much help to archery hunters you still get your rifle hunt smack dab in the middle of the rut if you cant get it done in 5 days something is wrong. You're too big of boob to pick up a bow, stick to your thunderstick.
 
One of bigger proposals was changing the distribution of rifle permits. I believe we went with 5% on the early, all units will have a mid season, and the mid and late season get the lions share of tag allotment.

We also proposed eliminating the 7.5-8.5 age class.

The focus was making more opportunities/tag numbers that’s achieved most effectively with archery hunts.
 
One of bigger proposals was changing the distribution of rifle permits. I believe we went with 5% on the early, all units will have a mid season, and the mid and late season get the lions share of tag allotment.

We also proposed eliminating the 7.5-8.5 age class.

The focus was making more opportunities/tag numbers that’s achieved most effectively with archery hunts.
Why eliminate using a antlerless tag during other seasons? I think most people like this option.
And I don't agree with shortening the early season hunt. Most people only draw these tags once in their lives. Reducing hunt days isn't going to move the needle on success rates. all it does is reduce the quality of the hunt.
 
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We are getting too good at killing. Our cow elk populations in many of LE units I have hunted are poor. Cache units, Beaver, San Juan, etc. We need more cow elk in many of our elk herds. I like only hunting cow elk in Specific seasons. Maybe have a shorter season that allow taking of cow elk during general archery, say the first or last 7 days could be considered.
 
We are getting too good at killing. Our cow elk populations in many of LE units I have hunted are poor. Cache units, Beaver, San Juan, etc. We need more cow elk in many of our elk herds. I like only hunting cow elk in Specific seasons. Maybe have a shorter season that allow taking of cow elk during general archery, say the first or last 7 days could be considered.
Then cut tags.
If they are giving antlerless tags out then they want those animals killed. Shouldn't matter which season they get killed.
 
The DWR are trying to balance herd objectives and opportunity for hunters, which brings in the money. I don't think they want every cow tag punched, 100% success, neither do they want, 100% success with bull tags. People want a decent chance to fill their tag and have a quality experience in the outdoors. There is a limited resource and a lot more people now and in the next 10 years in Utah.
 
$$$. If they limit the time period for killing the cow, success rate will be lower, which allows them to issue more permits, which = more $. Same with changing either sex general archery tags to bull only = issue more cow tags = more $.
 
Why eliminate using a antlerless tag during other seasons? I think most people like this option.
And I don't agree with shortening the early season hunt. Most people only draw these tags once in their lives. Reducing hunt days isn't going to move the needle on success rates. all it does is reduce the quality of the hunt.
I think I missed that meeting, but if I remember right just from chat we tried to get away from practices that were not effective management tools. Pressuring cow herds en masse was extremely ineffective, so moving towards more opportunity in a more managed hunting scenario was the goal, IE more seasons with less hunters on the mountain.

Mass pressure just pushed elk to private or inaccessible areas and created a whole new set of management problems.
 
One of bigger proposals was changing the distribution of rifle permits. I believe we went with 5% on the early, all units will have a mid season, and the mid and late season get the lions share of tag allotment.
We also proposed eliminating the 7.5-8.5 age class.

The focus was making more opportunities/tag numbers that’s achieved most effectively with archery hunts.
It bugged me so I went and found it. The new proposed rifle permit distribution is 10% for early rifle, 30% for mid, 17% late and 3% multi.

Consider the wasatch with rough rounded numbers for a bit.

Under the new proposal there would be roughly 300 mid rifle tags. That would make the mid rifle a 5-7 point draw going forward. Meaning guys could draw a LE rifle hunt every 10-12 years.

Wasatch late would drop to a 8~point draw.

The early remains what it currently is for the vast majority, a once in a lifetime draw. The 3850 applicants last year would pencil out roughly as a 40 year wait.

The math is ugly, but it’s the hard truth. New applicants, youth specifically are reaping the consequences of a system that bar’s them from regular hunting opportunities to protect the interests of a few. This proposal shifts the pendulum back in a few significant ways.
 
We kind of saw this year, the beginnings of what Berry mentioned.
Fishlake for example: There were 39 more resident tags this year than 2021 but none added to the early season. There were actually 19 less early season tags in 2022.
I noticed some other units had similar allocations which I think would equate to more opportunities but less success.
 
Thanks guys, I was trying to figure out the numbers.

As a dad with kids looking at OIL for elk, I appreciate the effort
 
You can watch an explanation of all the proposals here:
Just look at the proposal drop down under the November/December RAC meeting info. Links to maps and everything is also listed.

Happy to see what looks like progress in the right direction.
 
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Anybody have a link to a map of the proposed 6 new general elk areas?
Screenshot_20221025_213748.jpg
 
You gotta get out and earn those elk, Jake. You dont get any cheap ones out in that jungle, lol.
Nope, it's definitely not easy, I almost wished I hadn't killed during archery so I could have been out hunting that first week of rifle, but then I remembered it's better to have meat in the freezer lol.
 
Anthro and deep creeks are about to get the shidt pounded out of em and what bull numbers that are currently there about to get decimated. Why not go spike only in south slope/north slope/range creek all open bull units etc and manage for a 3 yr old objective make the point hoarders choose opportunity or traditional trophy units. Eliminate all bull hunt dates out of the 2nd half of September. Put the single shot scoped primitive rifle and any weapon to late oct/November. That will Break up the point cluster, same needs to be done with the split point system on deer. Treat everything as a true draw. Mandatory harvest required, take the guess work out of the numbers. Get accurate number counts and get away from the generic count formulas.
 
I don't know the reasoning on that specific proposal, but am curious to hear about it in the upcoming RAC and Wildlife Board meetings.
I think it's a pretty dumb idea to have a very small area any bull thats surrounded by 2 LE units. Especially when that area is mostly(probably 2/3rds of unit) private property.
 
I think it's a pretty dumb idea to have a very small area any bull thats surrounded by 2 LE units. Especially when that area is mostly(probably 2/3rds of unit) private property.
I don't know that specific area at all so can't comment with any facts there, but I also bet there will be a handful of dudes, if not more, that will hunt the broader Central Mountains Manti LE unit with an any bull tag because they don't read the proclamation/rules guidebook and understand the details.

That is one risk we get when we have 8 million different hunts between LE and general hunts/weapon types.
 
Being a non resident the three LE elk season concerns me as to how they will split the rifle tags on the smaller units. If there are only three or four tags for rifle hunters there would be no bonus tags at all with three seasons.
 
If someone has a question about "why" they did something, I'd suggest going and watching the videos that are published that explain why they are proposing each item.
 
I don't know that specific area at all so can't comment with any facts there, but I also bet there will be a handful of dudes, if not more, that will hunt the broader Central Mountains Manti LE unit with an any bull tag because they don't read the proclamation/rules guidebook and understand the details.

That is one risk we get when we have 8 million different hunts between LE and general hunts/weapon types.
This happens more then most realize, there’s a lot of dumb people and obviously a few ignorant thrown in. I use to spent a lot of time on a premium deer unit years ago which happens to be named after Joseph Henry and anywho, after 10 days on the archery deer hunt, I bumped into a hunter who missed the first ten days of the hunt and he got a hot tip from his neighbor of what’s the best deer unit in the state. To my surprise he hunted deer creek area on the opener and rolled down to this premium unit after not seeing a buck. I asked where he got his tag and his reply was “sportsmens wharehouse in Provo” When I gave the conservation officer his liscense plate and what info I could gather his reply was “Now ones that stupid” never did see what or if he killed anything, but it happens more than people realize.
 
Anthro is about to get the shidt pounded out of em

About To?

JUDAS!

The Unit Could Be As Good As Any Other LE Unit In The State If It Was Managed Properly!



Anthro and deep creeks are about to get the shidt pounded out of em and what bull numbers that are currently there about to get decimated. Why not go spike only in south slope/north slope/range creek all open bull units etc and manage for a 3 yr old objective make the point hoarders choose opportunity or traditional trophy units. Eliminate all bull hunt dates out of the 2nd half of September. Put the single shot scoped primitive rifle and any weapon to late oct/November. That will Break up the point cluster, same needs to be done with the split point system on deer. Treat everything as a true draw. Mandatory harvest required, take the guess work out of the numbers. Get accurate number counts and get away from the generic count formulas.
 
Anthro is about to get the shidt pounded out of em

About To?

JUDAS!

The Unit Could Be As Good As Any Other LE Unit In The State If It Was Managed Properly!
Totally agree, no need to tear out all the plumbing and destroy it and this point for a chitty china made pea trap.
 
So if I read the recommendations correctly, cow hunting on general archery season would now be like a limited tag deal?
All the archery tags will now be bull only, and they will be doing a new cow hunt, or just increasing tags if they already have one. No more either sex tags.
 
I think it's a pretty dumb idea to have a very small area any bull thats surrounded by 2 LE units. Especially when that area is mostly(probably 2/3rds of unit) private property.
The fact it is mostly all private property is exactly the reason they are doing that area as the any bull area. Their goal is to get elk off of the "refuge" areas, so they have less depredation issues.
 
After going through the proposal and reading opinions on several sites one thing I haven't seen anyone mention is the unlimited late season rifle tags. I'm fine with everything else but I think the late should be capped as well. I don't buy the pressure of the early hunt will make the later hunt that much harder especially if you have a weather pattern change like we experienced this year.
 
After going through the proposal and reading opinions on several sites one thing I haven't seen anyone mention is the unlimited late season rifle tags. I'm fine with everything else but I think the late should be capped as well. I don't buy the pressure of the early hunt will make the later hunt that much harder especially if you have a weather pattern change like we experienced this year.

I think this is actually a perfect plan to figure out exactly what the demand for general any bull elk tags are. We don't really know what the demand is because the tag number is limited. You log on at 8:00 am and see you are number 273,439 in line and think so many people want the tag! Yet by 9:15 you let into the system from the virtual line are ready to purchase tag #8,000. I don't think the demand is nearly as high as has been stated, and if that is discovered, that will help in a lot of ways. Do this for a couple years and see what the true demand is, and then you can make more educated decisions.

The success rate is going to be so low, this really won't matter for the number of elk on the landscape, IMO.
 
I think this is actually a perfect plan to figure out exactly what the demand for general any bull elk tags are. We don't really know what the demand is because the tag number is limited. You log on at 8:00 am and see you are number 273,439 in line and think so many people want the tag! Yet by 9:15 you let into the system from the virtual line are ready to purchase tag #8,000. I don't think the demand is nearly as high as has been stated, and if that is discovered, that will help in a lot of ways. Do this for a couple years and see what the true demand is, and then you can make more educated decisions.

The success rate is going to be so low, this really won't matter for the number of elk on the landscape, IMO.
If my memory serves me right, 2 years ago when they first proposed the new general season units they said that in the previous 5 years there ad been roughly 60,000 different individuals that had purchased either a general bull, or spike bull tag. That is probably a fairly close estimate as to what the numbers could truly be.
 
That number included the unlimited archery tags though, right?

So may not have as big of an impact on the muzzy and rifle any bull demand.
 
I think this is actually a perfect plan to figure out exactly what the demand for general any bull elk tags are. We don't really know what the demand is because the tag number is limited. You log on at 8:00 am and see you are number 273,439 in line and think so many people want the tag! Yet by 9:15 you let into the system from the virtual line are ready to purchase tag #8,000. I don't think the demand is nearly as high as has been stated, and if that is discovered, that will help in a lot of ways. Do this for a couple years and see what the true demand is, and then you can make more educated decisions.

The success rate is going to be so low, this really won't matter for the number of elk on the landscape, IMO.
Or cap it at another 15K and see how fast they sell out and what the demand is before blowing it wide open. That is 15k more opportunities.
 
The single biggest thing they can do to address point creep in the elk pool is to drop the age classification, which they are proposing to do. That is going to put quite a bit more tags out there, and more tags mean more people drawing and out of the pool.

But you are going to see some people absolutely losing their minds when you see more bulls getting killed in the process and how Utah has ruined the elk herd because they can't measure what they are seeing in inches anymore.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying what is going to happen.
 
I don't know that specific area at all so can't comment with any facts there, but I also bet there will be a handful of dudes, if not more, that will hunt the broader Central Mountains Manti LE unit with an any bull tag because they don't read the proclamation/rules guidebook and understand the details.

That is one risk we get when we have 8 million different hunts between LE and general hunts/weapon types.
That area will actually be cut out of the Nebo unit and not the Manti unit. They used to have an extended season for the same area, but they got rid of it several years ago. It's typically an area the elk move to later in the year, but there might be a few elk living there earlier in the year as well. Lots of private property. It is a tough unit to hunt without any access to private.
 
My own opinion on this plan is that they are putting a band-aid on wound that needs to be amputated. If we want to slow the butt-plug of points, give more opportunity, it WILL NOT MAKE EVERYONE happy. We also need to remember your points are just that.....POINTS. They are no guarantee of anything. They will not guarantee you a rifle rut hunt, 400 inch bulls, 200 inch deer, 100% success/kill rate or anything else. Just gets you closer to the top of the point pool.

Like many have said, we need to overhaul the system. Stop with points. Let them eventually run out. When? Who knows or cares. Let them go.

For elk, move the hunts all around. Eliminate Rifle rut hunts. Hunt rifle elk, like mentioned, in Oct and Nov. Maybe have a SMALL % of tags for 5 days in Sept for rifle. More archery (less success), more late Oct and Nov rifle tags (less success).

We need to look at this as opportunity to hunt, not a guarantee to kill. No one will be happy. we could double the elk tags if managed for opportunity, not success rates. If we get more and more elk, and they need to be cut down, issue more tags the next season.

If I had time, I'd write a breakdown, but work calls.
 
The single biggest thing they can do to address point creep in the elk pool is to drop the age classification, which they are proposing to do. That is going to put quite a bit more tags out there, and more tags mean more people drawing and out of the pool.

But you are going to see some people absolutely losing their minds when you see more bulls getting killed in the process and how Utah has ruined the elk herd because they can't measure what they are seeing in inches anymore.

I'm not against it, I'm just saying what is going to happen.
by some people, I think you mean WLH and Mossback. :ROFLMAO: It is way past time we stop catering to large outfitters and special interest groups that only care about themselves. But I agree with you, there will be plenty crying about the lack of 400" bulls. I would argue we actually ruin the elk herd by managing for quality only.

I personally appreciate the move more towards an Arizona model with very few tags for high success rate hunts and providing a lot more opportunity for lower success rate hunts. There will still be quality, but let's be honest, no matter what we do, we can't return to the glory days of the early 2000's so let's get more hunters out killing bulls that will never reach 350".
 
Not sure what you Knuckle heads are implying about special interest groups. All I see is a self proclaimed savior of wildlife and conservation sharing a Dallas sci booth together. I do agree with mirroring Az and even Nv to a lesser extent.

9843ECC1-890B-4EA3-8750-527DE6EA3BE2.jpeg
 
by some people, I think you mean WLH and Mossback. :ROFLMAO:

Amongst others. On the record, in a public Wildlife Board meeting that is recorded, SFW president said the group advocates moving the rifle hunt out of the rut so they can grow more 400" bulls to sell at auction and make more money.

That was the reasoning for moving the elk hunt seasons around. Not for the herd, not for biological reasons, not even for every day hunters. It was so they can get more giant bulls to sell tags for at auction.

*Edit: It was also why they proposed and fought to shut the late Dutton hunt down completely. Too many big bulls were getting killed by average Joe hunters. That is not me saying that, it was SFW saying that. Too many regular hunters killing trophy bulls on that hunt, shut it down!
 
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Amongst others. On the record, in a public Wildlife Board meeting that is recorded, SFW president said the group advocates moving the rifle hunt out of the rut so they can grow more 400" bulls to sell at auction and make more money.

That was the reasoning for moving the elk hunt seasons around. Not for the herd, not for biological reasons, not even for every day hunters. It was so they can get more giant bulls to sell tags for at auction.

*Edit: It was also why they proposed and fought to shut the late Dutton hunt down completely. Too many big bulls were getting killed by average Joe hunters. That is not me saying that, it was SFW saying that. Too many regular hunters killing trophy bulls on that hunt, shut it down!
Agreed - I wrote special interest groups, but SFW was the main entity I was thinking of!
 
There will even be those on this forum that will BAAWWWL if the top end bulls of this state become 340-360 bulls instead of 370-400 bulls.

You know, because herd health is measured in inches, right? I'm one sitting in the elk pool with way too many points right now, and I fully support adding a bunch more additional elk tags to the system, even if it means it will be harder for me to kill a bigger bull. It's just the right thing to do, and the herds can take it. We have way too many bulls aging out that never get killed on the premium units, it's time to start killing them and giving more room for the cows to have more babies.
 
@berrysblaster what is the reason for giving the arhery spike hunters 4 day to hunt before the LE guys get to hunt? Was this just an oversight or was this intentional?
 
@berrysblaster what is the reason for giving the arhery spike hunters 4 day to hunt before the LE guys get to hunt? Was this just an oversight or was this intentional?
I don’t know, can’t remember talking about it, and if it’s not mentioned specifically in Dax’s explanation you tube vid it might be an oversight or error
 
I’m actually in support of some of the changes they are making but am concerned that with more opportunity comes negative side effects. I have two questions for the crowd…

1. Have any of you during your hunts, scouting, or shed hunting trips on top age objective units found large quantities of bull elk dead heads?

2. Is there a point where you’d rather not hunt even though you can get a tag easily because there are too many other people?

My personal experiences on two of the top 5 age class units hasn’t supported that bulls are dying of old age. If that’s the case you’d be picking up dead heads all the time.

I’ve been on two big-named AZ units one for deer and the other for elk. It was a crowded mess and really diminished my overall hunt satisfaction level.

Too much opportunity (crowds) is just as bad as point creep and having to wait in my opinion. I’m hoping the state doesn’t over do it.
 
The PUMPKIN Patch Is About To Get Alot Bigger!

Like It Ain't F'N Big Enough Already!



I’m actually in support of some of the changes they are making but am concerned that with more opportunity comes negative side effects. I have two questions for the crowd…

1. Have any of you during your hunts, scouting, or shed hunting trips on top age objective units found large quantities of bull elk dead heads?

2. Is there a point where you’d rather not hunt even though you can get a tag easily because there are too many other people?

My personal experiences on two of the top 5 age class units hasn’t supported that bulls are dying of old age. If that’s the case you’d be picking up dead heads all the time.

I’ve been on two big-named AZ units one for deer and the other for elk. It was a crowded mess and really diminished my overall hunt satisfaction level.

Too much opportunity (crowds) is just as bad as point creep and having to wait in my opinion. I’m hoping the state doesn’t over do it.
 
Yup!

Cut DRATville Back To Where The Quality Comes Back Up & You'll Have All These OPPORTUNISTS PISSIN Their-selves!



Lol, I’d imagine it would be more of a labor induced pizz dribble. Nv has 18 k or so elk population and puts out a helluva lot better high end product and age class than Utah from my experience with less resources.
 
Bess I use to put "some" value in your posts but anymore you just rant and have no real substance. Are you doing anything to try and get things managed how you think they need to be or just complaining on MM? It really is getting F'N old.
 
Well yote!

Don't Know How Long You've Been Around This State?

EVERYTHING & Every Change For Many Years Has Been Changes For Nothing But MORE OPPORTUNITY!

The Quality Of Our LE Hunts have been Going Down Hill For Many Years Now Due To $$$ & GREED!

If You Haven't Noticed This You Don't Get Around The State Much?

Many Years Ago I Tried To Talk The Opportunists in to getting 3 Units in the State Going Where You Could Have a FREE-FOR-ALL!

Shoot Any-F'N-thing You Want,Quality Animals,Middle Grade Animals & PISSCUTTERS as Well!

But Most Opportunists Want In on the Quality Animals & Once They've F'D a Unit/Area Up Then They Wanna Move in on another Unit/Area & Do The Same there as Well!

If You Haven't Seen The Quality Of Bucks & Bulls Falling The Last Several Years You're Perty GAWD-DAMNED Blind!

And I Don't Think You're Blind!

I Think it Was SPJ that said We Need To Be More Like Nevada's Game Management!

I'll Agree With Him But You'd Have Most DRAT'S BAWLING Like Babies!

Utah Will Grow Quality Bucks & Bulls Just about anywhere!

WITH THE RIGHT F'N MANAGEMENT!

But Too Many Want their Way in to Destroy another Unit/Area not Caring what Happens to it!

I'll Say It again:

Get a few OPPORTUNISTS Units Going & POUND Them!

Hunt Them Clear Down To Nothing!

But Don't Come BAWLING & WHINING wanting To Destroy Other Units After You F Them Up!

Remember:LE Units Ain't For Everybody!

But There Are Still Hunters Around That Could Care Less About POUNDING A PISSCUTTER!

They Play The Points Game In Hopes Of Harvesting a Better Quality Animal Someday!

Do They Wanna Hunt in a General PUMPKIN Patch? No!

Have You Looked At The DWR Calendar in the Last Several Years?

Continuous & Over-Lapped Hunts Going NON-STOP From Mid-August Till Late in to The Year!

Sometimes Stretching COW KILLER Hunts in to Early of the following year!

I Hope You're Still Shooting Lots of Coyotes!

No,I'm Not Mad At You!

But Think About it!

They've Turned Every Big Game Animal In This State In To Nothing But $$$ With No Care on The Quality of Our Game Herds!

I'm Sure I'll Have Several Replies With people Whining!

GIT-R-DONE!

I Know Coyote Hunters Are Tougher Than That!







Bess I use to put "some" value in your posts but anymore you just rant and have no real substance. Are you doing anything to try and get things managed how you think they need to be or just complaining on MM? It really is getting F'N old.
 
Been Trying To Talk Some Common Sense In To People Of All Sorts For Years!

But The GREED Out-Numbers any of That!

Spent Quite A Bit Of Time on a Local LE Elk Unit with Donated Time & DH Hours To Only See This Unit Destroyed By PISS POOR Management,The Unit Was & Still Could be a Top End LE Elk Unit With Proper Management!

Really SAD!

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH But The Opportunity!

Just One Of Many Projects That alot of People Put Time,Money & Effort in to & Then See It Destroyed By STUPIDism!





In all that rambling I don't believe you answered the question. What are you doing about it besides dropping posts on this site?
 
Why eliminate using a antlerless tag during other seasons? I think most people like this option.
And I don't agree with shortening the early season hunt. Most people only draw these tags once in their lives. Reducing hunt days isn't going to move the needle on success rates. all it does is reduce the quality of the hunt.
elkantlers.
90% LE rifle Hunters did harvest 5 days or less. It's been this way for years.
Your right it won't move the needle on success.

So I really don't see a problem on this at all.
 
elkantlers.
90% LE rifle Hunters did harvest 5 days or less. It's been this way for years.
Your right it won't move the needle on success.

So I really don't see a problem on this at all.
The problem is loss of potential hunting days. These tags take a long time to draw, and they will still take a long time to draw even after the DWR implements there feel good changes. I just feel that if there is going to be a significant change there should be a significant outcome as well. all this change does is take hunting days away from hunters that have invested considerable time and money to draw these tags. It won't magically reduce point creep.
 
The problem is loss of potential hunting days. These tags take a long time to draw, and they will still take a long time to draw even after the DWR implements there feel good changes. I just feel that if there is going to be a significant change there should be a significant outcome as well. all this change does is take hunting days away from hunters that have invested considerable time and money to draw these tags. It won't magically reduce point creep.
If I understand the proposal, one benefit for the early rifle season would be a significant reduction in the number of early rifle hunters as many of these tags get moved into the middle rifle season?
 
The most frustrating part of this whole thing is listing to these morons that we have managing this state. It’s all about more more more opportunity. We only have so many acres to hunt in this state !! The population is going to continue to grow. Our wildlife resources can only handle so much hunting. But all they talk about is more opportunity( which equals $)!! We are so far brain washed with this type of management we think it works, when really it’s a complete disaster. They are ruining and watering down the whole thing for more opportunities. Before long we will have early/mid/mid/kind of late extended either sex hunts unlimited over the counter hunts for males, females, youth, and non residents!!! I can not even read through these changes without my head wanting to explode. It’s another step in the wrong direction. You cannot manage wildlife in todays world for opportunity, the population is growing to fast . Not everyone should be able to hunt every year . Cmon Dax and the wildlife board grow a backbone and manage wildlife and not $$$$$$!
 
The most frustrating part of this whole thing is listing to these morons that we have managing this state. It’s all about more more more opportunity. We only have so many acres to hunt in this state !! The population is going to continue to grow. Our wildlife resources can only handle so much hunting. But all they talk about is more opportunity( which equals $)!! We are so far brain washed with this type of management we think it works, when really it’s a complete disaster. They are ruining and watering down the whole thing for more opportunities. Before long we will have early/mid/mid/kind of late extended either sex hunts unlimited over the counter hunts for males, females, youth, and non residents!!! I can not even read through these changes without my head wanting to explode. It’s another step in the wrong direction. You cannot manage wildlife in todays world for opportunity, the population is growing to fast . Not everyone should be able to hunt every year . Cmon Dax and the wildlife board grow a backbone and manage wildlife and not $$$$$$!
What is your solution?
 
The Solution Isn't To Keep Adding More Hunting Pressure/Killing More Game/To Get More Money To Give Less!

JUDAS!

Is It That Hard To Figure Out?

It's Amazing Though How Many OPPORTUNISTS We Have & PISS On The Quality Of The Hunt!
 
Yup it’s only about one thing $$$. They don’t give a damn about the wildlife. They are just using opportunitie as an excuse to push it thru. Quality will continue to decline. Sucks for people who keep waiting for half a century to draw. It’s a joke
 
Yup it’s only about one thing $$$. They don’t give a damn about the wildlife. They are just using opportunitie as an excuse to push it thru. Quality will continue to decline. Sucks for people who keep waiting for half a century to draw. It’s a joke
Why you waiting half a century to draw? Pick a unit you can draw and go hunt.

I love it when people b!tch about the long wait to draw a tag when it was 100% their choice to put in for the hardest to draw hunts.
 
Why you waiting half a century to draw? Pick a unit you can draw and go hunt.

I love it when people b!tch about the long wait to draw a tag when it was 100% their choice to put in for the hardest to draw hunts.
Jake, ? if the secret gets out then it will be harder for guys like us to get the tags. Let them collect all the points in the world while we hunt.
 
My own opinion on this plan is that they are putting a band-aid on wound that needs to be amputated. If we want to slow the butt-plug of points, give more opportunity, it WILL NOT MAKE EVERYONE happy. We also need to remember your points are just that.....POINTS. They are no guarantee of anything. They will not guarantee you a rifle rut hunt, 400 inch bulls, 200 inch deer, 100% success/kill rate or anything else. Just gets you closer to the top of the point pool.

Like many have said, we need to overhaul the system. Stop with points. Let them eventually run out. When? Who knows or cares. Let them go.

For elk, move the hunts all around. Eliminate Rifle rut hunts. Hunt rifle elk, like mentioned, in Oct and Nov. Maybe have a SMALL % of tags for 5 days in Sept for rifle. More archery (less success), more late Oct and Nov rifle tags (less success).

We need to look at this as opportunity to hunt, not a guarantee to kill. No one will be happy. we could double the elk tags if managed for opportunity, not success rates. If we get more and more elk, and they need to be cut down, issue more tags the next season.

If I had time, I'd write a breakdown, but work calls.
Let me guess you have drawn your LE tag
 
IMHO
The best way to have more opportunity is to manage for more animals. As close to carrying capacity as possible. And manage for all age classes to be represented in all herds.
 
Looking at the 23-24 proposed elk season dates on the DWR site, there isn't a limited entry any weapon late hunt listed. Is this an oversight, or are they considering doing away with the late hunts?


ELK​

  • General-season archery spike bull: Aug. 19–Sept. 8, 2023
  • General-season archery any bull: Aug. 19–Sept. 20, 2023
  • General-season muzzleloader: Nov. 1–9, 2023
  • General-season any legal weapon spike bull: Oct. 7–19, 2023
  • General-season early any legal weapon any bull: Oct. 7–13, 2023
  • General-season late any legal weapon any bull: Oct. 14–20, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk archery: Aug. 23–Sept. 19, 2023
  • Limited-entry late-season archery elk: Dec. 2–17, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk muzzleloader: Sept. 25–Oct. 6, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk early any weapon: Sept. 20–24, 2023
  • Limited-entry elk HAMS/restricted weapons: Nov. 11–30, 2023
  • Limited-entry any legal weapon hunt on 14 units that didn't previously have a mid-season hunt: Oct. 7–19, 2023
  • Limited-entry late-season any legal weapon hunt on Diamond Mountain: Nov. 11–19, 2023
 
Has there been any talk on tag numbers for the late archery LE hunts?
Yes, they will do it similar to the late muzzloader deer hunts on the general units. It will be 1% of the total tag aligations or 5 tags whichever is more. And those tags do not go against the archery tag quota % of 25%. They are in addition too that number.
 
Yes, they will do it similar to the late muzzloader deer hunts on the general units. It will be 1% of the total tag aligations or 5 tags whichever is more. And those tags do not go against the archery tag quota % of 25%. They are in addition too that number.
Thanks Jake. Those hunts will be tough.
 
Does anyone know if the unlimited archery Antler-less permits are season date specific?

What I mean by this. The way the rule is wrote currently. Does this apply below.
Additional opportunity
There is some flexibility if you are an ant- lerless elk permit holder who also possesses a permit to hunt any one of the following seasons:
• Limited entry bull elk (archery, muzzleloader, any legal weapon or multi-season)
• Antlerless deer or elk, excluding antler- less elk-control permits
If your antlerless elk permit is for the same area as one of the permits listed above—and you use the appropriate weapon type specified for your current hunting season—you may use your antlerless permit during the season dates authorized for your other permit.
Please keep in mind, you may continue to hunt for antlerless elk during the season dates listed on your buck or bull permit, even after you have harvested your buck or bull. However, you may not use a permit for a buck deer or bull elk during the antlerless season, unless it’s during the timeframe when the two seasons overlap.
If you obtain two antlerless elk permits for the same area—but the permits are for differ- ent seasons—you may harvest both elk during the same season.
 
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