Is the Great Salt Lake dying?

Yes, and it's a major problem. If you read much about GSL, you'll see Wayne Wurtsbaugh's name come up. He's been studying GSL for a long time and has been warning about this.

I've known him for years as his son is a very good friend of mine. I've also hunted with Wayne many times and he's invited me on their annual duck hunt, so I know him well.

Each of us could spend a lifetime trying to learn what he knows about inland waters and still never scratch the surface. If Wayne says it's a problem, I trust him.
 
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And What Are You Gonna Do About That Problem?

grizzly said:
Yes, and it's a major problem. If you read much about GSL, you'll see Wayne Wurtsbaugh's name come up. He's been studying GSL for a long time and has been warning about this.

I've known him for years as his son is a very good friend of mine. I've also hunted with Wayne many times and he's invited me on their annual duck hunt, so I know him well.

Each of us could spend a lifetime trying to learn what he knows about inland waters and still never scratch the surface. If Wayne says it's a problem, I trust him.
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tailchasers said:
No doubt but does evolution come into play? Are we witnessing a part of evolution?
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Are the water flows into the GSL at natural levels or have we interrupted and reduced them with development and agriculture upstream?

IMO, we can't suck as much water out of the inflows as we do and then claim we're not part of the reason the lake level is falling.
 
Are human needs not part of natural evolution? Are our impacts except from this equation? Or is there a default defacto?
 
tailchasers said:
Are human needs not part of natural evolution? Are our impacts except from this equation? Or is there a default defacto?
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No, things like Lake Mead, Lake Powell, commercial agribusiness, and massive pipelines diverting snowpacks are not part of the natural world. My point here is that what is happening at GSL isn't in a vacuum, we're seeing similar outcomes elsewhere.

Go look at all the agriculture along the Bear River and realize all that water is water that won't make it to the GSL. It's no wonder that the lake level is falling.

We do our best to live with nature, and nature does it's best to live with us... but they're not one and the same.
 
tailchasers said:
Humans are natural. How are we not? Evolution includes us. I think ag is right important too since we gotta eat.
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Humans are natural, so is evolution. So are disease, famine, death, asteroids, cancer, and ultimately, extinction...

That doesn't mean we should just acknowledge it's existence and carry on with the damage we're causing.

If random chance or our actions, which we can undertake to far greater effect to earth than our contemporaries, lead to disease, famine, death, asteroids, cancer, or our ultimate extinction - we have, and will continue to, try and alter that path.

Likewise, if our actions in altering entire ecosystems can be mitigated for the good of the world that you clearly believe we're an integral part of, we should consider those alternatives. There's a common saying that rings true here, "Where much is given, much is required."

We all sit on MM knowing that our infrastructure and housing developments, particularly on winter range, have impacted mule deer survival. Because of that, we have discussed ad nauseam how to remedy those actions. We don't simply say, "Well, it's evolution and we need someplace to live." We acknowledge that we've altered the natural world and look for ways to compensate for the things we've done.

It's exactly the same thing with GSL.

Over half of all the water in the GSL comes from stream inflow. I've never actually heard somebody argue that siphoning off that inflow isn't a contributing factor to the lessoning of the water in the lake.
 
First, Utah is the home to a gazillion acres of dark green lawns. In a desert. Next, agriculture has changed. Gone a most of the livestock and grazing meadows. Replaced by alfalfa. 4 crops of water sucking plants. Much of which gets cubed and sent to China, Saudi Arabia. And last, we drink water. And Utah really can't handle the massive California influx. The leadership in Utah, are composed of developers. Tying growth, to water availability is not good for the bottom line, so development far outpaces how to support it.

No. We will in fact run out of salt, and numerous other minerals as flooding then evaporating is in fact how they are created.

Further, without that pool of warm water that gets sucked up by passing storms to dump on us as snow, the mtns dry up, we lose habitat for deer and elk.

Finally. If you hunt waterfowl, in Utah, or Arizona, NV, NM, or south of border, the lake, and marshes that support it, make that possible.

No, this isn't part of "evolution". This is pretty much manmade. I live a block from what was wet, swamp. It's now a golf course, thousands of houses, and soon a freeway. The ground dried up.

This isn't lake Mead, or Powell. This isnt a damn creates entity.

Finally. Utah has pretty bad invertions in Jan, Feb, where because of our valleys surrounded by high MTN, dirty cold air sinks into the valley's. Millions of years of harmful minerals, chemicals, waste, etc flowed into the lake bed. Now without water, that dust joins our already dirty winter air, making for rough breathing.

Thhe lake drying, is a bigger deal than bark beetle kills, especially for sportsmen
 
eelgrass said:
There's no fish in the lake to catch, so what's the point of having it? :)
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Waterfowl NEED it and our health depends on it.
Dust from the GSL is very detrimental to human health.

I can't WORRY about it because that does me no good and I'm not smart enough to know what to do about it....except zero-scape our yards and let things be a desert in a desert!!!

Zeke
 
Well it’s definitely something to think about. Elk asked what are we going to do. Well the city of Grantsville where I live wants to annex 7888 acres on the north east of town. What are they planning on doing adding warehouses and high density housing. So what’s the results of that more water being consumed an estimated 58,000 more humans. And more worthless corporations moving in and paying no taxes just like Walmart DC while raising ours and having no infrastructure to support it. Destroying more mule deer winter range and wetlands for waterfowl. But don’t worry most of it won’t be developed for 30yrs they claim. ? Also on the GSL magcorp has pumped a ton of dirty water back into the lake. Now the epa did step in and they are forced to have a water treatment plant by next year I believe and then they can pump back in. Then you have to figure you lose some water to evaporation on this process. Also look at deer creek the next time your in heber. Luxurious homes going up everywhere. It’s not the fact that your household is consuming more water. It’s the fact we keep inviting everyone to live in Utah that’s an even bigger issue. Then you have FB’s data center being built in eagle mtn. Well data centers use a ton of water to keep things cool. And from what I’ve seen the lake shrinking lessens the chance of lake effect snow. And then all the toxins blowing in the dry lake seems concerning. Bringing mass amounts of people to the 2nd driest state is very concerning as well. So bottom line put a full sign on every border in the state.
 
wstrntines said:
Well it’s definitely something to think about. Elk asked what are we going to do. Well the city of Grantsville where I live wants to annex 7888 acres on the north east of town. What are they planning on doing adding warehouses and high density housing. So what’s the results of that more water being consumed an estimated 58,000 more humans. And more worthless corporations moving in and paying no taxes just like Walmart DC while raising ours and having no infrastructure to support it. Destroying more mule deer winter range and wetlands for waterfowl. But don’t worry most of it won’t be developed for 30yrs they claim. ? Also on the GSL magcorp has pumped a ton of dirty water back into the lake. Now the epa did step in and they are forced to have a water treatment plant by next year I believe and then they can pump back in. Then you have to figure you lose some water to evaporation on this process. Also look at deer creek the next time your in heber. Luxurious homes going up everywhere. It’s not the fact that your household is consuming more water. It’s the fact we keep inviting everyone to live in Utah that’s an even bigger issue. Then you have FB’s data center being built in eagle mtn. Well data centers use a ton of water to keep things cool. And from what I’ve seen the lake shrinking lessens the chance of lake effect snow. And then all the toxins blowing in the dry lake seems concerning. Bringing mass amounts of people to the 2nd driest state is very concerning as well. So bottom line put a full sign on every border in the state.
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Don't worry, the population is getting ready to self correct. Bunch of old people out there getting ready to go by the wayside...
 
Does GSL begin to fill up on normal precipitation years, or has it been losing water for a long time? GSL is certainly unique and no doubt worth saving, in my opinion.
 
Someday I'll be able to look out my window here and there'll be houses all the way to Antelope Island. Of course I won’t be able to see them cause the smog will be much thicker.

950FF6A2-546A-48C6-936D-B664231D79DC.jpeg
 
All pawns for the billion dollar export of the brine shrimp they harvest as it is one if not the highest grade to the buyers. Some of the groups have great forethought and just will take monies and make a living off the groups popping up for the save the GSL movement. With all the millions of gallons saved the water level is still diminishing.. but hopefully we continue the saving and we get 4-7 years of above normal wet years and it will help inch the levels up.
 
Just drove by Willard Bay today, and was so disappointing. I believe that is the lowest level I have seen this time of year!!!
 
eelgrass said:
Does GSL begin to fill up on normal precipitation years, or has it been losing water for a long time? GSL is certainly unique and no doubt worth saving, in my opinion.
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in the 80’s the surface area of the GSL was around 3300 Square miles, today it’s less than 1000. I don’t think it will ever get anywhere close to what it was in the 80’s. It doesn’t even snow anymore and this past summer was the hottest summer ever in Utah.
 
The previous low water record was recorded in 1963. 20 years later they were calling for pumps.
It certainly won't hurt to try to help it currently.
 
I believe the fluctuations of the lake levels are a natural phenomenon that have happened many times over the past eons. If man is having any impact on the current lake levels, it is minimal, and our ability to impact the lake level is extremely limited.

I live very close to the lake. We have definitely had a few dry years. It was back around 2010 that lake levels were quite high, for recent history. While the population has changed in a decade, it isn't like SLC didn't exist in the 1980's and around 2010. The 1980's were historic highs for the lake, at least in modern history.

Yes, the city has grown substantially, as have all surrounding areas. We should definitely be prudent with ALL natural resources, especially water. But it is ego alone, or call it hubris, that has some thinking the action of government can impact the lake levels long term.

Exercise caution, be responsible, but please don't think some new government edict or program will solve the "problem". It almost certainly will only make things worse, no matter how well intentioned. And mother nature will swing the pendulum back some day in the future.

Bill
 
wstrntines said:
Well it’s definitely something to think about. Elk asked what are we going to do. Well the city of Grantsville where I live wants to annex 7888 acres on the north east of town. What are they planning on doing adding warehouses and high density housing. So what’s the results of that more water being consumed an estimated 58,000 more humans. And more worthless corporations moving in and paying no taxes just like Walmart DC while raising ours and having no infrastructure to support it. Destroying more mule deer winter range and wetlands for waterfowl. But don’t worry most of it won’t be developed for 30yrs they claim. ? Also on the GSL magcorp has pumped a ton of dirty water back into the lake. Now the epa did step in and they are forced to have a water treatment plant by next year I believe and then they can pump back in. Then you have to figure you lose some water to evaporation on this process. Also look at deer creek the next time your in heber. Luxurious homes going up everywhere. It’s not the fact that your household is consuming more water. It’s the fact we keep inviting everyone to live in Utah that’s an even bigger issue. Then you have FB’s data center being built in eagle mtn. Well data centers use a ton of water to keep things cool. And from what I’ve seen the lake shrinking lessens the chance of lake effect snow. And then all the toxins blowing in the dry lake seems concerning. Bringing mass amounts of people to the 2nd driest state is very concerning as well. So bottom line put a full sign on every border in the state.
Click to expand...
In addition to that, Ivory Homes just announced they have purchased 900 acres in SW Grantsville and will be building 1,300 homes.
 
As far as drought goes, we could all be in a world of hurt. Historically, scientists say we've had 200 year droughts in the past. I hope they are wrong. The little red blip on the right side is the current drought. Climate scientists say this one is man made.

Screenshot (37).png
 
ridgetops said:
In addition to that, Ivory Homes just announced they have purchased 900 acres in SW Grantsville and will be building 1,300 homes.
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Our town isn’t so small anymore. Time to move south or east! I guess Ken Ivory just thinks we have water like Mississippi.?
 
Period of record is what? Core samples say what? Tree rings have shared what? Man has been around for how long? WAFJ....
 
A couple items you guys didn't bring up -
1- isn't there some chemical or something that will blow around if it dries up ?
2- I thought it helped the "Lake Effect" and helped the Mts receive more snow that could end up in Colorado ?
If I'm wrong set me straight but I thought those were concerns.
 
hossblur said:
First, Utah is the home to a gazillion acres of dark green lawns. In a desert. Next, agriculture has changed. Gone a most of the livestock and grazing meadows. Replaced by alfalfa. 4 crops of water sucking plants. Much of which gets cubed and sent to China, Saudi Arabia. And last, we drink water. And Utah really can't handle the massive California influx. The leadership in Utah, are composed of developers. Tying growth, to water availability is not good for the bottom line, so development far outpaces how to support it.

No. We will in fact run out of salt, and numerous other minerals as flooding then evaporating is in fact how they are created.

Further, without that pool of warm water that gets sucked up by passing storms to dump on us as snow, the mtns dry up, we lose habitat for deer and elk.

Finally. If you hunt waterfowl, in Utah, or Arizona, NV, NM, or south of border, the lake, and marshes that support it, make that possible.

No, this isn't part of "evolution". This is pretty much manmade. I live a block from what was wet, swamp. It's now a golf course, thousands of houses, and soon a freeway. The ground dried up.

This isn't lake Mead, or Powell. This isnt a damn creates entity.

Finally. Utah has pretty bad invertions in Jan, Feb, where because of our valleys surrounded by high MTN, dirty cold air sinks into the valley's. Millions of years of harmful minerals, chemicals, waste, etc flowed into the lake bed. Now without water, that dust joins our already dirty winter air, making for rough breathing.

Thhe lake drying, is a bigger deal than bark beetle kills, especially for sportsmen
Click to expand...
Farmers are using less water today than they were using in the 1980s. As farmers sell water shares to urban development the farmers farm less acres.
Yes it is not good news about the Great Salt Lake but lake effect really effects a small percentage of the snow pact in Utah. The Manti and Fish Lake is not effected by the GSL.
 
notdonhunting said:
Farmers are using less water today than they were using in the 1980s. As farmers sell water shares to urban development the farmers farm less acres.
Yes it is not good news about the Great Salt Lake but lake effect really effects a small percentage of the snow pact in Utah. The Manti and Fish Lake is not effected by the GSL.
Click to expand...

The Manti is desperately trying to "seed" clouds with propane.

9 Mile is gone. So is Gunnison res. The San pitch is barely a trickle any more.

There's been a lot of sage brush and pasture plowed and seeded for hay in that country, that wasn't years back.

I'd do the same as they are, but that doesn't mean that's not a much thirstier crop.

Lake effect covers a lot more than areas directly east of the lake, that moisture that clears the Front, drops into the uintas as well.
 
hossblur said:
The Manti is desperately trying to "seed" clouds with propane.

9 Mile is gone. So is Gunnison res. The San pitch is barely a trickle any more.

There's been a lot of sage brush and pasture plowed and seeded for hay in that country, that wasn't years back.

I'd do the same as they are, but that doesn't mean that's not a much thirstier crop.

Lake effect covers a lot more than areas directly east of the lake, that moisture that clears the Front, drops into the uintas as well.
Click to expand...
The Manti and Fishlake are in desperate need of moisture but the Great Salt Lake has nothing to do with them.
In your post above you made it sound as if the elk herds of Utah are going to disappear because of the GSL going dry.
I think there is confusion between above surface water (irrigation water) and below surface water (culinary water)
Irrigation water shares was determined many years ago, you don't create more shares because you plow up sagebrush and now want to plant alfalfa. When a farmer sells shares of water to a housing development, them shares are now either used as irrigation for lawns and gardens or used for well rights to help improve culinary water system of the local municipality. Yes farmers plow up sagebrush and plant alfalfa but that is because the farmer has went out and purchased shares of water from someone else.
The Great Salt Lake dying up is not farmers fault
 
Homer said:
Those dams have supplied more food and comfort to those Indians than all the salmon in the world.....
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before white man settled in the area that tribe migrated to the coast during winter and dug clams and fed on clover. They were known as the clover eaters.
 

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