Another Utah outfitter pinched?

Keystone

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Got a coworker who was telling me there's smoke about an outfitter on the Wasatch having his clients elk(a famous Utahn) confiscated by DWR for trespassing. No it wasn't Lemon.

Anyone else hearing anything?

And yeah, I know the names, but I don't want to trash someone if it's bullchit.
 
The bull is still up on their Facebook page, and an explanation about the circumstances is in the comments. Looks like whatever happened was a mistake and not nefarious, and if a mistake was made, they are prepared to own it.

I can respect people that make mistakes and own them. (If a mistake was made at all? The investigation will shed light on that question.)
 
The bull is still up on their Facebook page, and an explanation about the circumstances is in the comments. Looks like whatever happened was a mistake and not nefarious, and if a mistake was made, they are prepared to own it.

I can respect people that make mistakes and own them. (If a mistake was made at all? The investigation will shed light on that question.)
After doing some research and finding the post.....

I 100% agree with you! Looks like a mistake to me and they will own up to whatever happens. 100% respect to them!
 
Good.

I don't do the fb, so I was unable to check it that's why I didn't say names.

Hopefully it works out.
 
Will be interesting how it plays out, sounds like a hell of bull involved for the area. Hoping it’s just smoke, but I’m a firm believer In the tried and trued old adage “Innocent until proven Darner”

71F4D502-B0C0-46D0-B9B9-C84235254EE9.jpeg
 
I don’t have the face books. So I haven’t seen the post.

But I have heard of the story…… in my mind and with my knowledge of the area, people involved etc etc etc, there are some things not adding up. I look forward to hearing the resolution.
 
I could pm you if you’d like the FB Deetz, I just more wanted to comment that “cloak and Dagger” might pass off on the new Hams hunt descriptions the way things are going with the new restrictive weapons definition in Utah
 
Allegedly it BlaSted past said CWMU border, but in full disclosure the FRuity comment above was in no way shape or form Citrus based, yellow in color or happen to have any involvement with the recently Killed Potential SCI world record breaking Mule Deer.
Go back to that thread about WLH pet deer and read my first comment. Lol. Berry started that thread
 
No need to beat around the bush people it's public information off their own Facebook page.

Founder Edit:
Per the request of the hunters attorney, the facebook images have been removed. The facebook post was also removed from Facebook because of comments it included.
 
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Nice job @Keystone you didn't burn anyone without the facts, kinda rare nowdays.
Seeing who was involved I don't blame you for not naming names.

Play the boundary game enough, your gonna get burned
 
They Surely Didn't Confiscate The Bull Without Some FOR SURE Proof I Hope?
Looking like they fully admit it died across the line, but are claiming it was shot on their side of the line.

If it wasn't a CWMU and was just a private land boundaries issue, it probably wouldn't be an issue. Sounds like the line is not marked.
 
So?

Was The CWMU Operator Notified Before Retrieval?

Looking like they fully admit it died across the line, but are claiming it was shot on their side of the line.

If it wasn't a CWMU and was just a private land boundaries issue, it probably wouldn't be an issue. Sounds like the line is not marked.
 
Don’t worry. The crippled kid turkey hunts and fishing days combined with the friends with benefits relationships between the DWR and SFW will definitely pay off on this deal. There will never be a conviction on a guy who will jump to his knees without being asked, especially when it comes to the guys who are the one’s writing the tickets. I do feel a little bad for the outfitter who’s about to take it hard in the shorts on this deal. Hopefully his time served on the committee’s will play out in his favor too. If I were him, I’d definitely start volunteering for the disability fishing day. Maybe look in to donating a turkey tag to corned, uh I mean canned, turkey hunt for the kids this coming spring too.
?? god bless America ??
 
Don't Know How Long you've Been in the Woods?

It doesn't Have To Be Posted!

You Need To Know Where You're At!

And Where You Ain't!
Elk that's easier said than done.

Last week for the 3rd time in the last decade OnX let me down again and put me on property it said I was legal on but wasn't. I asked a worker he directed me on the boundary change and I scooted back to where I needed to be.

Some of these boundaries you need to be a surveyor to get right. Even then it could be up to the courts.
 
Elk that's easier said than done.

Last week for the 3rd time in the last decade OnX let me down again and put me on property it said I was legal on but wasn't. I asked a worker he directed me on the boundary change and I scooted back to where I needed to be.

Some of these boundaries you need to be a surveyor to get right. Even then it could be up to the courts.
That’s why you and WLH are buddies. Birds of a feather…trespass together.
 
I Won't Argue That!

Most Of Utah's Private Ground is Fenced,Irrigated.Posted or Flagged!

But Surely Not All of It!

I Realize Some Places would Be a Bittch to Fence & Costly!

But Don't Tell Me The couldn't Have Some Tall Fluorescent Posts/Flags every 100'-200' if They Are even Thinking about Keeping People Out!

But Then Again,They Do Not Have To!

Elk that's easier said than done.

Last week for the 3rd time in the last decade OnX let me down again and put me on property it said I was legal on but wasn't. I asked a worker he directed me on the boundary change and I scooted back to where I needed to be.

Some of these boundaries you need to be a surveyor to get right. Even then it could be up to the courts.
 
Elk that's easier said than done.

Last week for the 3rd time in the last decade OnX let me down again and put me on property it said I was legal on but wasn't. I asked a worker he directed me on the boundary change and I scooted back to where I needed to be.

Some of these boundaries you need to be a surveyor to get right. Even then it could be up to the courts.


But the worker knew?

So you mean the guy paid to have knowledge, knew?

Kind of the point of hiring professionals, right?
 
I Won't Argue That!

Most Of Utah's Private Ground is Fenced,Irrigated.Posted or Flagged!

But Surely Not All of It!

I Realize Some Places would Be a Bittch to Fence & Costly!

But Don't Tell Me The couldn't Have Some Tall Fluorescent Posts/Flags every 100'-200' if They Are even Thinking about Keeping People Out!

But Then Again,They Do Not Have To!


Does "I didn't know" work for the inspector in the basin?

All these paid guides that sell their knowledge for $$$, until they get caught trespassing or poaching, then suddenly it's "I didn't know, how was I supposed to know?"

Sorry, hard to believe they spent hours and hours scouting this bull, enough to know where it was, and that it was moving in and out of private, yet they didn't think to pin down where that private line was?

I'm betting, if not for the paycheck, that trigger pull might of been delayed a min?
 
Elk that's easier said than done.

Last week for the 3rd time in the last decade OnX let me down again and put me on property it said I was legal on but wasn't. I asked a worker he directed me on the boundary change and I scooted back to where I needed to be.

Some of these boundaries you need to be a surveyor to get right. Even then it could be up to the courts.
I’m starting to hate onx. I got to hear again this year “but onx said…..” :mad:
 
Don't Know How Long you've Been in the Woods?

It doesn't Have To Be Posted!

You Need To Know Where You're At!

And Where You Ain't!

If you’re talking about trespassing in Utah at least, this isn’t true. You need to freshen up the memory on those trespassing laws.

But it sounds like this isn’t a trespassing case. It is a unit boundary case, to which permission from the property owner is irrelevant. If the bull was killed on the CWMU then it was out of boundary for the unit, and you need to know unit boundaries or your SOL.
 
But the worker knew?

So you mean the guy paid to have knowledge, knew?

Kind of the point of hiring professionals, right?
Oh yeah that makes sense. Every time I hunt a new area all of the surrounding properties need to send their workers with me to show me where they think the boundaries are.

Get real dude.

By the way I've met workers that didn't know their boundaries also.

Things aren't as black and white in the real world.
 
I Won't Argue That!

Most Of Utah's Private Ground is Fenced,Irrigated.Posted or Flagged!

But Surely Not All of It!

I Realize Some Places would Be a Bittch to Fence & Costly!

But Don't Tell Me The couldn't Have Some Tall Fluorescent Posts/Flags every 100'-200' if They Are even Thinking about Keeping People Out!

But Then Again,They Do Not Have To!
Actually they do have too, if it's not irrigated crop land it has to be posted. In Utah private property must be posted.

The problem here if it wasn't posted is the fact it was on a CWMU which makes it a completely different hunt unit, and there for throws a whole new wrench into the matter.
 
Elk that's easier said than done.

Last week for the 3rd time in the last decade OnX let me down again and put me on property it said I was legal on but wasn't. I asked a worker he directed me on the boundary change and I scooted back to where I needed to be.

Some of these boundaries you need to be a surveyor to get right. Even then it could be up to the courts.
See, you learn something new every day on MM. I thought Texas was all high fenced hunting. That would of made it hard to trespass unless you cut through someone’s fence. ???
 
If you’re talking about trespassing in Utah at least, this isn’t true. You need to freshen up the memory on those trespassing laws.

But it sounds like this isn’t a trespassing case. It is a unit boundary case, to which permission from the property owner is irrelevant. If the bull was killed on the CWMU then it was out of boundary for the unit, and you need to know unit boundaries or your SOL.

Ha, beat me to it.
 
I Do Not Have To Post My Ground!

If you’re talking about trespassing in Utah at least, this isn’t true. You need to freshen up the memory on those trespassing laws.

But it sounds like this isn’t a trespassing case. It is a unit boundary case, to which permission from the property owner is irrelevant. If the bull was killed on the CWMU then it was out of boundary for the unit, and you need to know unit boundaries or your SOL.
 
Actually they do have too, if it's not irrigated crop land it has to be posted. In Utah private property must be posted.

The problem here if it wasn't posted is the fact it was on a CWMU which makes it a completely different hunt unit, and there for throws a whole new wrench into the matter.
While that is the biggest issue at hand, I think the trespassing also plays into it as well.

I will find the code and edit this post. While many people hold onto the notion of must have crops, or be broken/cultivated for crops, or must house livestock. They changed the description of this law a few years back. Where it only has to be posted on the corners and major points of ingress and egress if it doesn’t fall in the aforementioned.

Whereas he states they had permission to cross through the property may be trespassing would not apply. But the thing that jumps out at me in his post. He admits they used to be the operators of the CWMU, which means for years they have guided on and off of the property.

How do you spend that much time guiding different units, and not know the unit boundaries?

Edit to add link to trespassing law:
 
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I Do Not Have To Post My Ground!

“Post” is a very vague term, but assuming you mean putting up “no trespassing” signs….Correct, but you have to do SOMETHING that gives notice the public isn’t welcome.

I’m not making this up. It is right in statute. If you’re talking about most hunting situations, out in the mountains bordering public lands, if a landowner does nothing to put the public on notice, then it is not trespassing. Period. End of story. It’s right in Utah code.

But again, if you read the stuff JakeH shared, they had permission, so that notice aspect is a moot point. The only question will be if the hunter had the proper permit for where the elk was shot. Trespassing, according to the outfitter, is not a worry as they had permission.
 
If you’re talking about trespassing in Utah at least, this isn’t true. You need to freshen up the memory on those trespassing laws.

But it sounds like this isn’t a trespassing case. It is a unit boundary case, to which permission from the property owner is irrelevant. If the bull was killed on the CWMU then it was out of boundary for the unit, and you need to know unit boundaries or your SOL.


That was my thinking glad you clarified.
 
Oh yeah that makes sense. Every time I hunt a new area all of the surrounding properties need to send their workers with me to show me where they think the boundaries are.

Get real dude.

By the way I've met workers that didn't know their boundaries also.

Things aren't as black and white in the real world.


Read Vanilla post.

You are arguing a non point
 
I don't think the outfitter knowing where he is at is an issue here.

If you read the outfitter's own words, that is exactly what is at issue. Either the elk was on public land and everything was fine, or the elk was on a CWMU which the hunter did not possess a permit for, and it would be an illegal take. According to the outfitter's own words, if it was an illegal take it is only because they thought the boundary was elsewhere, hence, they didn't know they were on the CWMU.

I take the outfitter at their word here, and as he stated, if they made a mistake they are willing to own up to it. That is commendable. We don't know if they made a mistake yet or not, but it sounds like it won't take long to figure that out since the outfitter is openly working with the DWR on this instead of trying to bury it and hide it. That is refreshing!
 
Then why did you bring up the worker?


I'll talk SLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW.

It doesn't matter WHAT THE WORKER SAYS, as far as giving permission to enter the CWMU to retrieve an elk.

The CWMU IS A DIFFERENT UNIT, than the Wasatch unit.

The "worker" should know the BOUNDARY lines, not the PROPERTY LINES.

That's why he's not pinched for TRESSPASSING. He's pinched for illegal take.

Boundary lines don't necessarily follow property lines.


Soooooooo, when you hire a guide to take you hunting ON THE WASATCH UNIT, he doesn't have a legal means to hunt a separate unit, in this case a CWMU.

Again, your knowledge of Texas doesn't apply on public land.

Just like no matter who WLH asked, the UNIT Waldrips ILLEGALLY TOOK A SHEEP ON, wasn't included in her UNIT(S) DESCRIPTION, so any verbal permission didn't change that.(Unless you take the director bear hunting).

A dude in NM can't give you permission to kill a deer in NM if you have a Texas tag. Easy way to think about it
 
I'll talk SLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW.

It doesn't matter WHAT THE WORKER SAYS, as far as giving permission to enter the CWMU to retrieve an elk.

The CWMU IS A DIFFERENT UNIT, than the Wasatch unit.

The "worker" should know the BOUNDARY lines, not the PROPERTY LINES.

That's why he's not pinched for TRESSPASSING. He's pinched for illegal take.

Boundary lines don't necessarily follow property lines.


Soooooooo, when you hire a guide to take you hunting ON THE WASATCH UNIT, he doesn't have a legal means to hunt a separate unit, in this case a CWMU.

Again, your knowledge of Texas doesn't apply on public land.

Just like no matter who WLH asked, the UNIT Waldrips ILLEGALLY TOOK A SHEEP ON, wasn't included in her UNIT(S) DESCRIPTION, so any verbal permission didn't change that.(Unless you take the director bear hunting).

A dude in NM can't give you permission to kill a deer in NM if you have a Texas tag. Easy way to think about it
The worker wasn't my point it was yours.

My point was don't trust OnX.
 
If you read the outfitter's own words, that is exactly what is at issue. Either the elk was on public land and everything was fine, or the elk was on a CWMU which the hunter did not possess a permit for, and it would be an illegal take. According to the outfitter's own words, if it was an illegal take it is only because they thought the boundary was elsewhere, hence, they didn't know they were on the CWMU.

I take the outfitter at their word here, and as he stated, if they made a mistake they are willing to own up to it. That is commendable. We don't know if they made a mistake yet or not, but it sounds like it won't take long to figure that out since the outfitter is openly working with the DWR on this instead of trying to bury it and hide it. That is refreshing!
Actually I did read his words. That's why it sounds like the outfitter knew where he was. It sounds like the dispute is where the elk was.
 
You gents have the just of it, since it’s an active legal matter that doesn’t just involve me I’m not gonna add much, other than to reiterate, per my markers bull was on public at time of shot. The carcass is just over 100 yards onto CWMU.

I absolutely made some mistakes from an ethical standpoint by assuming my understanding of a verbal description matched what was on OnX or GPS. If that results in a criminal violation that’s on me. No if ands or buts about it.

For mine and the hunters part, wether you believe me or not, no unethical intent was ever a factor in the equation. I even called the local CO prior to accessing to let him know we’d be on and crossing CWMU incase anyone called about it.

Bottom line, if you kill a trophy bull that close to a boundary there are consequences regardless of legality. I didn’t dot all my T’s cross my I’s so there are some questions that have to be sorted.

If those answers are contrary to legal bounds it’s on me.
 
You gents have the just of it, since it’s an active legal matter that doesn’t just involve me I’m not gonna add much, other than to reiterate, per my markers bull was on public at time of shot. The carcass is just over 100 yards onto CWMU.

I absolutely made some mistakes from an ethical standpoint by assuming my understanding of a verbal description matched what was on OnX or GPS. If that results in a criminal violation that’s on me. No if ands or buts about it.

For mine and the hunters part, wether you believe me or not, no unethical intent was ever a factor in the equation. I even called the local CO prior to accessing to let him know we’d be on and crossing CWMU incase anyone called about it.

Bottom line, if you kill a trophy bull that close to a boundary there are consequences regardless of legality. I didn’t dot all my T’s cross my I’s so there are some questions that have to be sorted.

If those answers are contrary to legal bounds it’s on me.

Very good response. Taking ownership is huge, at least in my opinion. Know you, and the rest of your outfit it doesn’t completely surprise me that you guys are putting the onus on yourselves.

I still have questions on how you guys operated the CWMU and on the surrounding public for years without knowing the boundaries, but that is minutiae in the totality of all of this.

I hope no offense is taken, but there will be “pokes” about this for some time, just like when you guys were measuring the main beam again as the “sixth”. ??

Again good on you for owning up to it being your responsibility.

P.S.

With the bull being confiscated, and you taking ownership in the mistake….. is there a chance of him getting the bull back? Or is he out the tag, plus the guide fee etc?
 
Very good response. Taking ownership is huge, at least in my opinion. Know you, and the rest of your outfit it doesn’t completely surprise me that you guys are putting the onus on yourselves.

I still have questions on how you guys operated the CWMU and on the surrounding public for years without knowing the boundaries, but that is minutiae in the totality of all of this.

I hope no offense is taken, but there will be “pokes” about this for some time, just like when you guys were measuring the main beam again as the “sixth”. ??

Again good on you for owning up to it being your responsibility.

P.S.

With the bull being confiscated, and you taking ownership in the mistake….. is there a chance of him getting the bull back? Or is he out the tag, plus the guide fee etc?
When it’s resolved I’ll write up the story from my perspective with the end result. The short of it is I don’t know the answers.
 
FWIW, here is my take of it
1. Have never met Berry but traded a few PM's years ago

For how big of an operation he has, lodging, summer and winter rentals along with the hunting and fishing I have never heard a bad thing of him or the business on this or any other forum. That means even with the anonymity of the internet where people can come and hate on someone from their Moms basement he has not had that kind of attention.

If he has been spared a public hanging on MM and elsewhere he most likely runs a honest business?

Haters hate, and trolls jump on the bandwagon out of jealousy or pure spite and do so with the shadow of fake names and double user names.

We are not looking at a Lemon or Heaton or Hatch that have real problems in the past and currently have charges/active court appearances pending.

Pretty important to note from above he is fully (as far as we know) cooperating with the DWR and has stated if he/they are in the wrong will take ownership of the issue(s)

His reputation is not just tied to hunting, which is a small part of his overall business model.
 
You gents have the just of it, since it’s an active legal matter that doesn’t just involve me I’m not gonna add much, other than to reiterate, per my markers bull was on public at time of shot. The carcass is just over 100 yards onto CWMU.

I absolutely made some mistakes from an ethical standpoint by assuming my understanding of a verbal description matched what was on OnX or GPS. If that results in a criminal violation that’s on me. No if ands or buts about it.

For mine and the hunters part, wether you believe me or not, no unethical intent was ever a factor in the equation. I even called the local CO prior to accessing to let him know we’d be on and crossing CWMU incase anyone called about it.

Bottom line, if you kill a trophy bull that close to a boundary there are consequences regardless of legality. I didn’t dot all my T’s cross my I’s so there are some questions that have to be sorted.

If those answers are contrary to legal bounds it’s on me.


That's class.

Ain't blaming a janitor. Ain't calling no one a knucklehead.

Nice job Berry. Stand up dude!
 
Hope all works out Berry!
Past behavior and track record (as treedagain pointed out above) absolutely plays a role here, and given your transparency and cooperation with what took place, this feels much more like an honest mistake than a willful/blatant violation.

Contrast this to the infamous "Nebo Sheep incident" where parties involved knew 100% that a sheep could not be hunted on a given unit, yet went to measured lengths to get "permission".
 
Where has the hunting world gone to, if we have to pay a guide to take us within 100 yards of a unit/private property boundary to wait for an animal to barely cross into our side of legal? It’s too bad these types of things are being decided on in courts while costing tax payers **** loads of money, instead of just being avoided by having a better moral compass. If I’m hunting that close to a property line, I’m almost certainly not hunting an animal that is on my legal hunting grounds. Shoot a 310 bull that lives on the ground you’re allowed to hunt.
 
“If I’m hunting that close to a property line, I’m almost certainly not hunting an animal that is on my legal hunting grounds”.
You make it sound as though the animal was owned by the CWMU.
A tag holder can legally hunt a boundary and Berry did absolutely nothing wrong in doing so, unless the bull was shot inside the line. He is completely up front and willing to own it, if that’s the case.
Just a wild guess here but I’m thinking if it were a 310 bull killed, it wouldn’t be such a big deal.
Whats your connection to the CWMU here?
 
Where has the hunting world gone to, if we have to pay a guide to take us within 100 yards of a unit/private property boundary to wait for an animal to barely cross into our side of legal? It’s too bad these types of things are being decided on in courts while costing tax payers **** loads of money, instead of just being avoided by having a better moral compass. If I’m hunting that close to a property line, I’m almost certainly not hunting an animal that is on my legal hunting grounds. Shoot a 310 bull that lives on the ground you’re allowed to hunt.


I think it’s unethical and morally wrong for someone to even insinuate that a publicly owned animal should not be killed by a public hunter on public land with a valid permit. Boundary lines are just that, lines. Not buffer zones. Quit being so unethical and demanding the public not hunt public land.
 
Very good response. Taking ownership is huge, at least in my opinion. Know you, and the rest of your outfit it doesn’t completely surprise me that you guys are putting the onus on yourselves.

I still have questions on how you guys operated the CWMU and on the surrounding public for years without knowing the boundaries, but that is minutiae in the totality of all of this.

I hope no offense is taken, but there will be “pokes” about this for some time, just like when you guys were measuring the main beam again as the “sixth”. ??
That Damned 6TH Point Adds Up!

Again good on you for owning up to it being your responsibility.

P.S.

With the bull being confiscated, and you taking ownership in the mistake….. is there a chance of him getting the bull back? Or is he out the tag, plus the guide fee etc?
 
It’s illegal to hunt them on units your permit isn’t valid for.

That’s the truth no matter how you look at it.

And you’re still a pudgy little troll that can’t kill an animal unless its face is buried in a corn pile. That’s also the truth.
Your feelings sure got hurt. Did I mess with your boy?
 
This hunting the property line stuff seems to be happening more and more guess if you start playing with fire your probably going to get burnt sooner or later...sometimes I wonder what a trophy sized animal is worth to some of these guys
 
This hunting the property line stuff seems to be happening more and more guess if you start playing with fire your probably going to get burnt sooner or later...sometimes I wonder what a trophy sized animal is worth to some of these guys


A major hit to your reputation as a guide if not criminal charges.

A major hit to your outdoor brand.

A lifetime of being an above board outfitter and member of elk committee, erased(possibly) because it paid good.



While I agree hunting an animal you have a tag for is fully legal, sometimes being legal, and being smart aren't the same. Unfortunately, I've read Berry's response, and while it is stand up and accountable, I didn't read "I absolutely was not on the wrong unit"...... Which still floors me that paid outfitters knew where the bull was, but didn't know where the boundary line was.

And yeah, if I was paying a CWMU and something similar happened, I press charges too.
 
Your GPS just tells you where you are. Not an exact boundary.

If he's counting on a 4 inch screen to decide a real boundary within a foot, you are screwed.

Game Warden didn't pull the trigger. Even in Texas I'm betting hunters safety teaches youre Responsible for your bullet.

And Berry isn't even saying he was only a foot over.
 
Game Warden didn't pull the trigger. Even in Texas I'm betting hunters safety teaches youre Responsible for your bullet.

And Berry isn't even saying he was only a foot over.
Never said he did. Everyone here makes the claim that the outfitter should be the omniscient businessman but we don't even realize how unsure the investigators are of where they stand at any one time.

If the state, who controls and secures all of these boundaries can't judge them any quicker than the hunters with the same equipment you are turning this into an experiment into hypocrisy.

Look there are 3 things that have to happen for rule of law and order to both work. First Law can't be stupid. Second, the law must be equal for all. Third, the law must be righteous.

If the game wardens can't make an accurate call on the spot using equipment available to the public then 2 of those rules are being broken.

If the game warden is standing in a spot staring at OnX on his phone and handing out tickets he you are going to screw hunters
 
Never said he did. Everyone here makes the claim that the outfitter should be the omniscient businessman but we don't even realize how unsure the investigators are of where they stand at any one time.

If the state, who controls and secures all of these boundaries can't judge them any quicker than the hunters with the same equipment you are turning this into an experiment into hypocrisy.

Look there are 3 things that have to happen for rule of law and order to both work. First Law can't be stupid. Second, the law must be equal for all. Third, the law must be righteous.

If the game wardens can't make an accurate call on the spot using equipment available to the public then 2 of those rules are being broken.

If the game warden is standing in a spot staring at OnX on his phone and handing out tickets he you are going to screw hunters


Even in Utah, righteousness isn't part of a law.

Second, the warden can't necessarily take the shooters word on where the shot happened (see Ryan Hatch ruling).

Third, the boundaries are based on actual coordinates.

Fourth, there are much better GPS than OnX.

Fifth, yeah, you hire professionals to KNOW things.

Sixth, hypocrisy has nothing to do with the law

Seventh, you assume the DWR can't make boundary judgements, not sure what's that based on.

Eighth. The time to challenge if boundaries are enforceable, is BEFORE you shoot something. Once the bullet flies, your responsible.
 
Even in Utah, righteousness isn't part of a law.
Really??????? If the cops are murderers and thieves, and the judges take bribes, and the people writing laws are making the most money from them, IT ALL WORKS FINE????

Don't be so anxious to disagree. It makes you look belligerent and stupid.
 

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