elkassassin
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Elk management meeting today
- Thread starter Oneye
- Start date
JakeH
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Bess, you ain't picking up what I'm putting down, no 150 isn't the mark you ain't ever going to get where most dudes are shooting 150 I bet there is 10% of archers shooting at game from over 100 yards. You want to limit a whole group for something very few guys are doing, and even less of those guys are doing it accurately.
Keep ranting about the long range archers though, you really aren't making any sense.
And your the one who never says anything about the long rangers, you just keep saying it's got to come from all. Well what does that look like bess? What do YOU want to take from the long rangers bess? Your always very vague how bout you spell it out for us.
Bigwiffy
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Archery success rates have remained low for 100's of years, even with advancement of tech. Take the Garmin electronic sights if you want, but discussion on recurve and longbows is ridiculous when long range rifles is "too hard to define" and are left alone....dumb
elkassassin
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Well JakeH!
If You're Gonna Take Scopes From SmokePolers!
Maybe Limit Long Rangers To 1X Scopes & Lets See Just How Bad Them LR Rifles Are Without The Un-Limited Optics of Today!
If You're Gonna Take Scopes From SmokePolers!
Maybe Limit Long Rangers To 1X Scopes & Lets See Just How Bad Them LR Rifles Are Without The Un-Limited Optics of Today!
JakeH
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Bess again no I do not want to take scopes from muzzloaders.
So you want to ban optics, does that include binos, and spotting scopes? Rangefinders? Or is it only for the stuff attached to a weapon?
elkassassin
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Never Said I WANTED TO!
I'm Sayin:
If They're TAKING!
They're Gonna TAKE From All Types!
I'm Sayin:
If They're TAKING!
They're Gonna TAKE From All Types!
I’ll bet they don’t take anything from archery.
JakeH
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And I'm saying "WHAT IS THE POINT OF TAKING FROM ARCHERS THAT HAVE VERY LOW SUCCESS IN THE FIRST PLACE"
It's a very leftist mentality. Just because they take from one they need to take from all???. How bout if we are going to take anything we take from the successful weapons. Just a thought.
Bigwiffy
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Jake gets it!
elkassassin
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So?
Archers & Modern Day Archery Equipment Ain't Anymore Lethal/Deadly Than What They Were 20-40 Years Ago?
Sounds Like Somebody Better Start Practicing And/Or Upgrading!
And Once Again!
You Are Not Listening!
I'm Not The One On The TAKE!
But As I've Said All Along!
If You're Gonna TAKE,You're Gonna TAKE From All 3 Weapon Types!
Do You Hear What I'm Trying To Say JakeH?
No,Not Yet You Are Not!
Doing What I'm Saying Will Be Way Harder Than TAKING From One Weapon Type!
Do You Get That?
I'm Not The One Wanting The TAKE!
Am I On The Committee?
No!
I Am Not!
Do You Want You Muzz Scope PLUCKED?
I'm Betting Not!
And I'm Not Pushing It!
Archers & Modern Day Archery Equipment Ain't Anymore Lethal/Deadly Than What They Were 20-40 Years Ago?
Sounds Like Somebody Better Start Practicing And/Or Upgrading!
And Once Again!
You Are Not Listening!
I'm Not The One On The TAKE!
But As I've Said All Along!
If You're Gonna TAKE,You're Gonna TAKE From All 3 Weapon Types!
Do You Hear What I'm Trying To Say JakeH?
No,Not Yet You Are Not!
Doing What I'm Saying Will Be Way Harder Than TAKING From One Weapon Type!
Do You Get That?
I'm Not The One Wanting The TAKE!
Am I On The Committee?
No!
I Am Not!
Do You Want You Muzz Scope PLUCKED?
I'm Betting Not!
And I'm Not Pushing It!
Bigwiffy
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Haha Bess you were sure vocal about, trail cams, bait, ebikes, "ban'm then enforce it!!!!" now they're coming after your smoke pole you are singing a different tune. ?
Archery has already lost in the tc ban and bait ban, now make us do it with a recurve or long bow......meanwhile muzzy and rifle guys cry about losing magnification on a scope! This state caters to fat guys in orange suits, and always will.
elkassassin
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I Don't Think It's Sinking In JakeH?
So I'll Try & SPLAIN It!
I Won't Argue The Technology Advance on All 3 Weapon Types Hasn't Put a Hurt On Our Game Herds!
It Damn Sure Has!
Back To SPLAINing It:
Alot of Hunters Will GIVE IN on The Taking of MuzzleLoader Scopes,Some That Hunt With Them And A Bunch That Don't Even Muzz Hunt Will Give In!
If They Take Them It Will Do ABSO-F'N-LUTEY Nothing To Improve Our Game Herds!
They Want To Do It To Sell More Tags!
So?
Let's Say They Take Muzz Scopes!
They Take Them And A Year or Two Later They Realize It Didn't Help SQUAT!
So,Somebody Starts Another Committee wanting Some Of Your Archery Equipment Banned!
Let's Say They Take what they Want!
A Year Or two Later They Realize It Didn't Help SQUAT!
So,Somebody Starts Another Committee wanting Restrictions on Long Rangers!
A Year or Two Later The Game Herds Are Even In More PISS POOR Shape & All the TAKES Didn't Do Sshhitt!
These TAKES Will NOT Fix Our Deer Herd!
But They'll Try & Work It Like Taking Your Guns!
What Are They Gonna Try & Take First?
Yup!
The Easiest Thing They Can Try & Get First!
For Example:
Let's Try & Take The AR's First!
Same As:
Let's Try & Take Muzz Scopes,It Will Be The Easiest To Get First!
I've Said From The Start of This STUPID Sshhitt:
If You're Gonna TAKE!
You're Gonna TAKE From All 3 Weapon Types Equally!
In Hopes,We/All 3 Weapon Types of Hunters Can & Will Ban Together & Put an End To It Now or We ALL Give A little across The Board & Make It Fair across The Board!
I'm Not PREACHING The TAKE!
I'm Saying:
Be Damn Careful What You're Willing To Give Up Because In a Year Or Two They'll Be After Something You Don't Wanna Give Up Such As Your Archery Equipment!
Again,As Hunters We Need To Ban Together & I Don't Care What Your Favorite Weapon Type Is!
I Hope Most Hunters Like Using All 3 Types of Our Hunting Weapons!
And Further More I Hope We Can All Stick up For All Hunters No Matter What Weapons You Hunt With!
So I'll Try & SPLAIN It!
I Won't Argue The Technology Advance on All 3 Weapon Types Hasn't Put a Hurt On Our Game Herds!
It Damn Sure Has!
Back To SPLAINing It:
Alot of Hunters Will GIVE IN on The Taking of MuzzleLoader Scopes,Some That Hunt With Them And A Bunch That Don't Even Muzz Hunt Will Give In!
If They Take Them It Will Do ABSO-F'N-LUTEY Nothing To Improve Our Game Herds!
They Want To Do It To Sell More Tags!
So?
Let's Say They Take Muzz Scopes!
They Take Them And A Year or Two Later They Realize It Didn't Help SQUAT!
So,Somebody Starts Another Committee wanting Some Of Your Archery Equipment Banned!
Let's Say They Take what they Want!
A Year Or two Later They Realize It Didn't Help SQUAT!
So,Somebody Starts Another Committee wanting Restrictions on Long Rangers!
A Year or Two Later The Game Herds Are Even In More PISS POOR Shape & All the TAKES Didn't Do Sshhitt!
These TAKES Will NOT Fix Our Deer Herd!
But They'll Try & Work It Like Taking Your Guns!
What Are They Gonna Try & Take First?
Yup!
The Easiest Thing They Can Try & Get First!
For Example:
Let's Try & Take The AR's First!
Same As:
Let's Try & Take Muzz Scopes,It Will Be The Easiest To Get First!
I've Said From The Start of This STUPID Sshhitt:
If You're Gonna TAKE!
You're Gonna TAKE From All 3 Weapon Types Equally!
In Hopes,We/All 3 Weapon Types of Hunters Can & Will Ban Together & Put an End To It Now or We ALL Give A little across The Board & Make It Fair across The Board!
I'm Not PREACHING The TAKE!
I'm Saying:
Be Damn Careful What You're Willing To Give Up Because In a Year Or Two They'll Be After Something You Don't Wanna Give Up Such As Your Archery Equipment!
Again,As Hunters We Need To Ban Together & I Don't Care What Your Favorite Weapon Type Is!
I Hope Most Hunters Like Using All 3 Types of Our Hunting Weapons!
And Further More I Hope We Can All Stick up For All Hunters No Matter What Weapons You Hunt With!
elkassassin
Long Time Member
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Not So Wiff!
You Start a TAKE!
You Give In to a TAKE!
And They'll Be After Your Favorite Hunting Weapon Accessories In a Year or two!
Read My Post # 212 Wiff!
You Start a TAKE!
You Give In to a TAKE!
And They'll Be After Your Favorite Hunting Weapon Accessories In a Year or two!
Read My Post # 212 Wiff!
First they came for your bait... and you didn't care because you don't use bait.
Then they came for your cameras... and you didn't care because you don't use cameras.
Then they came for your muzzle loader scopes... and you didn't care because you don't hunt with a muzzle loader...
See where this is going?
Then they came for your cameras... and you didn't care because you don't use cameras.
Then they came for your muzzle loader scopes... and you didn't care because you don't hunt with a muzzle loader...
See where this is going?
elkassassin
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JakeH
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Bess finally you say something I can get behind. The thing is the way you been splain-in it has not had the desired effect you thought it was. Your "take from one take from all" approach has sounded more like a battle cry to take from everyone. Not as a cautionary tale to watch out for. I get it now, but you may want to find another way of splain-in it to us dense in the head folks.
elkassassin
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You're Not Dense in The Head Jake!
That's Why I SPLAINED It In Detail This Time!
I Think If We Ban Together on Either Approach It's Way Better Than Splitting The Hunting Community Completely Up Which Will For Surely Fix Nothing!
That's Why I SPLAINED It In Detail This Time!
I Think If We Ban Together on Either Approach It's Way Better Than Splitting The Hunting Community Completely Up Which Will For Surely Fix Nothing!
JakeH
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I think there should be some stuff put in place to stop the stuff coming down the pike, there is some crazy stuff being invented, but for the most part the existing stuff that's well circulated and being used would be hard to take.
elkassassin
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Eliminating the season will eliminate the problem. Not your eliminating variable scopes, nice try though
Bigwiffy
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That's a nice feel good post Cat, but your other 30,331 other posts about banning bait, bikes, and bows speaks louder than that nice, cozy, ? you just posted? Just razzin you of course.
slamdunk
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I completely agree, and no one I know has discussed anything serious about recurve and Long bows, that's not even on a table.
Bigwiffy
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It's been discussed at length to implement that restriction into the HAMS hunts.
JakeH
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To be fair to the tech committee that was not one of their recommendations that was 100% a DWR "change" they felt they needed to implement.
slamdunk
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It's not going to happen, not according to the Tech Committee.
Maybe the WB will adopt it, but we squashed it on our level.
Bigwiffy
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That sounds good to me. Hopefully the Wildlife Board agrees.
Some of ya'll talk about the slippery slope in potentially losing some of the bells and whistles in regards to your weapons, but fail to see that the slippery slope in tech has been angling up every year in regards to killin power.
It's an interesting discussion and a lot of passionate folks.
We talk about this stuff as hunters but ultimately our laws are made or delegated to us by the non hunting public. I'm sure you have all spoke to non hunters about hunting before. I know that those I have talked to seem to care about 'fairness' in regards to the game. Fairness is a loaded word but if we don't police ourselves in some regards the general public will, meaning the legislature. Trail cam legislation came from the legislature, not the WB. If joe public knew of some of the distances game is being taken today I am confident they would think that unfair.
Every year the killin tools get better and more affordable. This slippery slope goes uphill, not down.
as for archery restrictions, we don't need to limit compounds or sights--just ban releases! ? The good lord want your fingers to touch that bowstring, anything else is a sin and not fair!
Just some fun smack talk gentlemen, so chill.
It's an interesting discussion and a lot of passionate folks.
We talk about this stuff as hunters but ultimately our laws are made or delegated to us by the non hunting public. I'm sure you have all spoke to non hunters about hunting before. I know that those I have talked to seem to care about 'fairness' in regards to the game. Fairness is a loaded word but if we don't police ourselves in some regards the general public will, meaning the legislature. Trail cam legislation came from the legislature, not the WB. If joe public knew of some of the distances game is being taken today I am confident they would think that unfair.
Every year the killin tools get better and more affordable. This slippery slope goes uphill, not down.
as for archery restrictions, we don't need to limit compounds or sights--just ban releases! ? The good lord want your fingers to touch that bowstring, anything else is a sin and not fair!
Just some fun smack talk gentlemen, so chill.Pretty good discussion. One point that may have been missed that doesn't sit right with me. Feel free to straighten me out if I've misread something. So, let's say the WB decides to put restrictions on weapons. Apparently, the reason is to reduce success, due to suffering herds numbers or quality. I say that, because using hunting as a wildlife management tool there is a certain number of animals of each species that need to be reduced each year. So, what I'm seeing is that the WB board would reduce success rates (harvest) but increase permits (and crowding) to make up for the lower success rate and increase revenue. Of course, they could just leave the weapons alone and decrease permits. Success rate would stay the same and realistically those hunting would have a better experience with less crowding. So, I guess this is also a quantity vs. quality vs. revenue issue. Am I wrong?
This is what huntings gonna look like before too long if some changes aren’t made
we need to control technology in all areas.
Archery less than 100 yards
Muzzle loaders less than 200 yards
Rifle hunts less than 500-600 yards. Easier said than done.
I shot a bull with out a scope at 270 yards with a muzzle loader.
I had an adjustable peep and practiced at least 100 shots this summer. I knew where my gun shot at 250 yards. Perfect conditions, no wind, good rest. The bull went about 30 feet and died. I have 60 year old eyes. It worked out with practice. Not recommending that long of shots. I could have killed two bulls bigger, but were just out of range. Still had a good hunt.
Do we want to limit success to 30-50% in all hunts and hunt more often? I would be willing.
Archery less than 100 yards
Muzzle loaders less than 200 yards
Rifle hunts less than 500-600 yards. Easier said than done.
I shot a bull with out a scope at 270 yards with a muzzle loader.
I had an adjustable peep and practiced at least 100 shots this summer. I knew where my gun shot at 250 yards. Perfect conditions, no wind, good rest. The bull went about 30 feet and died. I have 60 year old eyes. It worked out with practice. Not recommending that long of shots. I could have killed two bulls bigger, but were just out of range. Still had a good hunt.
Do we want to limit success to 30-50% in all hunts and hunt more often? I would be willing.
elkfromabove
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Ever increasing success rates? And technology is the primary villain?
Here ya go! (Year--Success rate percentage)
General Archery Deer:
1950---?.?----1960--20.6----1970--17.9----1980--14.8
1951---?.?----1961--22.0----1971--18.2----1981--15.8
1952-- 9.8----1962--18.5----1972--16.2----1982--15.4
1953--15.0----1963--15.9----1973--13.9----1983--15.8
1954--23.8----1964--18.2----1974---8.4----1984--15.6
1955--16.7----1965--13.3----1975---7.5----1985--15.4
1956--19.2----1966--20.5----1976---6.0----1986--10.9
1957--13.5----1967--17.1----1977---8.1----1987--13.0
1958--15.7----1968--18.3----1978---8.0----1988--13.0
1959--16.6----1969--16.2----1979--12.4----1989--11.5
1990--12.1----2000--22.9----2010--17.4----2020--18.8
1991--14.8----2001--17.7----2011--16.4----2021--17.7
1992--13.0----2002--17.2----2012--19.1
1993--20.6----2003--17.8----2013--18.4
1994--18.6----2004--17.8----2014--20.8
1995--15.0----2005--15.6----2015--23.9
1996--16.6----2006--22.1----2016--21.5
1997--14.4----2007--23.0----2017--20.8
1998--17.7----2008--19.7----2018--22.0
1999--20.9----2009--20.6----2019--16.5
During this time, we have tried regulating bow draw weights, aiming devices that cast a beam of light, arrow cast distances, arrow lengths and weights, electronic range finders and magnifying aiming devices in an effort to make it 'fair' to both animals and hunters. So, how are we doing? So far it has made very little difference. We still think it isn't 'fair' and the harvest success rates are like they were in the 50's and 60's. But let's keep on regulating, huh?
Here ya go! (Year--Success rate percentage)
General Archery Deer:
1950---?.?----1960--20.6----1970--17.9----1980--14.8
1951---?.?----1961--22.0----1971--18.2----1981--15.8
1952-- 9.8----1962--18.5----1972--16.2----1982--15.4
1953--15.0----1963--15.9----1973--13.9----1983--15.8
1954--23.8----1964--18.2----1974---8.4----1984--15.6
1955--16.7----1965--13.3----1975---7.5----1985--15.4
1956--19.2----1966--20.5----1976---6.0----1986--10.9
1957--13.5----1967--17.1----1977---8.1----1987--13.0
1958--15.7----1968--18.3----1978---8.0----1988--13.0
1959--16.6----1969--16.2----1979--12.4----1989--11.5
1990--12.1----2000--22.9----2010--17.4----2020--18.8
1991--14.8----2001--17.7----2011--16.4----2021--17.7
1992--13.0----2002--17.2----2012--19.1
1993--20.6----2003--17.8----2013--18.4
1994--18.6----2004--17.8----2014--20.8
1995--15.0----2005--15.6----2015--23.9
1996--16.6----2006--22.1----2016--21.5
1997--14.4----2007--23.0----2017--20.8
1998--17.7----2008--19.7----2018--22.0
1999--20.9----2009--20.6----2019--16.5
During this time, we have tried regulating bow draw weights, aiming devices that cast a beam of light, arrow cast distances, arrow lengths and weights, electronic range finders and magnifying aiming devices in an effort to make it 'fair' to both animals and hunters. So, how are we doing? So far it has made very little difference. We still think it isn't 'fair' and the harvest success rates are like they were in the 50's and 60's. But let's keep on regulating, huh?
elkassassin
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They Took The BumpStocks But Nobody Cared!
They Took or are Taking High Capacity Magazines And Most Don't Care!
They Wanna Take Semi-Automatics and Some Don't Care!
They Wanna Take AR's ........................... First!
They Took or are Taking High Capacity Magazines And Most Don't Care!
They Wanna Take Semi-Automatics and Some Don't Care!
They Wanna Take AR's ........................... First!
hornkiller
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Look what Canada just did no more hand gun sales!
elkassassin
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in 1994 my open sight 30-06 could kill a deer at 200 yards and nobody cared
in 1998 I got a scope and extended the range to 350 yards and nobody said anything
in 2007 I upgraded to a 300WM with a nice ballistics plex Leupold Scope giving me range to 450 and everyone was fine with it
in 2011 I traded in the scope for one with turrets and increased my yardage to 600 and nobody said a peep
Now I'm upgrading to a .338 Wiz Bang with 30X scope and turrets to 2,000 yards but luckily so is everyone else so good luck regulating my toys!
Everything above is true for a lot of hunters and you know it--that slippery slope went uphill in killin power fellas--not down!
in 1998 I got a scope and extended the range to 350 yards and nobody said anything
in 2007 I upgraded to a 300WM with a nice ballistics plex Leupold Scope giving me range to 450 and everyone was fine with it
in 2011 I traded in the scope for one with turrets and increased my yardage to 600 and nobody said a peep
Now I'm upgrading to a .338 Wiz Bang with 30X scope and turrets to 2,000 yards but luckily so is everyone else so good luck regulating my toys!
Everything above is true for a lot of hunters and you know it--that slippery slope went uphill in killin power fellas--not down!
elkfromabove
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You're talking about the results of increased rifle technology inside (and outside) of the hunting world, but the increases in archery technology have neither increased big game harvest success rates nor have they ever been involved in mass murders. Regulating them is a social issue inside of the hunting world.
deerelkalope
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The term "divide and conquer" comes to mind. We as hunters need to stand together as a whole! To say that my weapon is, in your opinion, too powerful, too accurate, too easy to shoot or whatever is just being selfish and narrow minded. I'm sure the antis love to see us bicker amongst ourselves. Give an inch and they will take a mile. I thought this thread was about elk
middlefork
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It was but nobody wanted to see another technology threadI thought this thread was about elk
elkfromabove
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Touche! For what it's worth, I enjoy hunting with a bow, but, since I also enjoy cleaning-up and refurbishing old hunting guns and selling them in order to put them back in the field, I'm just as interested in what happens to rifle, handgun, shotgun, and black powder hunts and to what the Feds are trying to do with guns as much as any of you. And I'd bet that the vast majority of archers and muzzleloaders also have a gun or two or three at home. Please don't count us out so easily.The term "divide and conquer" comes to mind. We as hunters need to stand together as a whole! To say that my weapon is, in your opinion, too powerful, too accurate, too easy to shoot or whatever is just being selfish and narrow minded. I'm sure the antis love to see us bicker amongst ourselves. Give an inch and they will take a mile. I thought this thread was about elk
elkassassin
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Elkslayer2015
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This is a hard one! you need to know how many tags they issued for each year because that dictates harvest success %.
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CrazyUtGuy
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I honestly don't know and I don't have to settle my own mind until spring.
CrazyUtGuy
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I love passionate people and that describes most hunters.
CrazyUtGuy
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There are a number of posts on this topic. I will answer here. The HAMS weapons restriction was the worse policy roll out I've seen in the 11 years I have been on the RAC and WB. There is enough blame to go around, with the exception of the Tech Committee, they did their job. Let folks know how you feel when this comes back up.
CrazyUtGuy
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The fighting concerns me also. Its not just weapons and tech. Next meeting its hounds and baiting. Memorial weekend is prime for both. Then its mule deer and lions. Swans will be a topic in the spring. Its not something that interests most folks but the snake and lizard meeting last year had a number of folks fighting amongst themselves.The term "divide and conquer" comes to mind. We as hunters need to stand together as a whole! To say that my weapon is, in your opinion, too powerful, too accurate, too easy to shoot or whatever is just being selfish and narrow minded. I'm sure the antis love to see us bicker amongst ourselves. Give an inch and they will take a mile. I thought this thread was about elk
elkantlers
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I sent you an e-mail on this.
elkfromabove
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Actually, the number of tags does not dictate harvest success %'s! It's the number of deer taken divided by those tag holders who actually hunted. All these figures come from the DWR and they know how many tags were issued and from their phone calls to some of the hunters that had the tags, they also know about how many of them hunted and about how many deer were taken. And all they have to do is divide the estimated number of deer taken by the estimated number of tags holders who hunted which will give them a decimal number which can be converted to a percentage.
I know it's an estimation, but they've been doing this for many years and it's pretty close. To be more accurate, we need EVERY hunter to report their hunt, but so far, that doesn't happen with general hunts.
elkfromabove
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I missed that one! Who keeps a bow and arrows in their car for protection? Only in Utah, huh?Hey efa!
This Guy almost Got An Arrow Nocked!
Elkrunning-Scared
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I’m learning here maybe I’m missing something.
So let’s say if you have only have 5,000 archery hunters In the early 2001and it’s 17.7% success.
remember there is only 5,000 hunter’s.
Then if you have 15,000 archery hunters in 2021 and you have 17.7% success.
Now that’s out of 15,000 hunter’s
So I look at this and I see more hunter’s with the same harvest success.
It looks like to me we have gotten really good at hunting in those 20 years.
Does this make sense?
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muledeer
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This is more correct and plus there was a lot more deer running around back in the 60's, 70's etc till 90's
elkassassin
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It Means The StickFlippers Are Harvesting Way More Deer Now Than They Were in 2001 & Prior!
But Somebody Will Quickly Say The Success Rate is the Same By Percentage Numbers!
Have Our Herd Numbers Increased To Handle The Total Numbers Of Harvests?
HELL NO!
But Somebody Will Quickly Say The Success Rate is the Same By Percentage Numbers!
Have Our Herd Numbers Increased To Handle The Total Numbers Of Harvests?
HELL NO!
Elkslayer2015
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Yes sir but wait elkassassin.
Muzzleloader.
2008 there was 11,488 hunters afield with 27.9% success
2009 there was 11,410 hunters afield with 29.4% success
2010 there was 13,189 hunters afield with 22.7% success
2011 there was 10,846 hunters afield with 19.6% success
2012 there was 12,916 hunters afield with 32.0% success
2013 there was 13,578 hunters afield with 30.7% success
2014 there was 13,502 hunters afield with 31.1% success
2015 there was 13,873 hunters afield with 34.5% success
2016 there was 14,561 hunters afield with 39.3% success
2017 there was 14,218 hunters afield with 33.5% success
2018 there was 14,134 hunters afield with 37.5% success
2019 there was 13,840 hunters afield with 27.0% success
2020 there was 12,801 hunters afield with 30.1% success
2021 there was 11,098 hunters afield with 34.0% success
No you haven’t gotten better at hunting there’s just 10,000 more of you. That’s the problem!!
Can only imagine the scopes they must have had on muzzies in 2016 ?
hossblur
Long Time Member
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- 10,498
The term "divide and conquer" comes to mind. We as hunters need to stand together as a whole! To say that my weapon is, in your opinion, too powerful, too accurate, too easy to shoot or whatever is just being selfish and narrow minded. I'm sure the antis love to see us bicker amongst ourselves. Give an inch and they will take a mile. I thought this thread was about elk
The antis don't matter, you won't change them.
It's the folks who don't care, or haven't thought about it.
And believe me, when we talk about hunting being heritage, conservation, or food supply, man vs nature, folks can grasp that
When they see/hear about night vision, auto aiming scopes, God guided ammo, doping computers, 3/4 miles shots, etc, that don't grasp that.
elkfromabove
Very Active Member
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- 2,098
There's a LOT of factors that play into success rates, ie: weather, length of seasons, areas hunted, antler restrictions, time of year, available animals by gender, number of tags available to each hunter, party hunting which wasn't actually listed as illegal and was generally accepted, type of hunting (deer drives, in-town hunting, tree stands, blinds), big buck contests, more meat hunters than now and, of course, deer numbers. BUT I still maintain that there are some things that haven't changed which I listed in post 96 and until technology comes up with solutions to those challenges, we're not likely to see a rise in archery success rates (or deer numbers). Maybe the only way we could tell how much technology has changed success rates is by having a few of those restricted weapon hunts. I, for one, could support that.
Elkrunning-Scared
Active Member
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- 120
How is it the problem? By all means explain.
Elkrunning-Scared
Active Member
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No different than the ones they probably have today.
If animal numbers are going down but the number of animals getting harvested is going up I see that as a problem
JakeH
Long Time Member
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You could not hunt with a scope on your muzzleloader in 2016. That's the irony of the situation the year with the highest success % the muzzys didn't have scopes.
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
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- 853
Okay Elkassassin.
Here is the one you have been waiting for.
This is archery
2008 there was 13,331 hunters afield with 19.7% success
2009 there was 13,438 hunters afield with 20.6% success
2010 there was 13,984 hunters afield with 17.4% success
2011 there was 13,692 hunters afield with 16.4% success
2012 there was 12,158 hunters afield with 19.1% success
2013 there was 13,143 hunters afield with 18.4% success
2014 there was 12,751 hunters afield with 20.8% success
2015 there was 13,794 hunters afield with 23.9% success
2016 there was 14,261 hunters afield with 21.5% success
2017 there was 13,540 hunters afield with 19.9% success
2018 there was 13,742 hunters afield with 22.0% success
2019 there was 13,242 hunters afield with 16.5% success
2020 there was 12,402 hunters afield with 18.8% success
So there you have it archery is 10% lower on success.
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JakeH
Long Time Member
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But there isn't more animals getting harvested they cut the number of deer hunters by more then half in the last 20 years. Might be a few more guys archery hunting, but as a whole there are far fewer people hunting every year.
It was just a joke, most didn’t have them. 1X was max allowed, yet hunters were pretty successful. ?
Totally agree. I was just going off his example of 17 percent of 5,000 vs. 17 percent of 15,000.
Elkrunning-Scared
Active Member
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- 120
Scopes where allowed in 2016.
Current Utah law allows only a 1X scope on muzzleloaders, but that will change starting in the 2016 hunts.
Right off of the DWR website
elkassassin
Long Time Member
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Littlebaler
Member
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- 17
Yes, I think they should eliminate scopes for all hunting rifles! Way to much high tech in hunting.
Elkrunning-Scared
Active Member
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- 120
Scopes where allowed in 2016.
Elkslayer2015
Active Member
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- 853
Hunter21 you should do some research.
Yes scopes with any magnification where allowed on Muzzleloader's in 2016.
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