New Mexico legal muzzleloader.

txhunter58 · Jan 9, 2023

Just an FYI in case you haven’t heard. Should be old news that scopes are no longer allowed for muzzleloader hunts starting next fall in NM. But rumors surfaced that peep sights and fiberoptics might not be legal either. So I sent an email, and asked both of those questions: both a peep and fiberoptics ARE legal.

Servehim · Jan 9, 2023

Not good for old guys with failing eyesight. Hope that is just rumors

txhunter58 · Jan 10, 2023

It was. They are both legal. Straight from NM game and fish in an e-mail

Servehim · Jan 10, 2023

Greetings txhunter58, if I could ask a favor as I know you know muzzleloaders very well. I'm on a hunt now and fired my muzzleloader then reloaded 3 days ago. Don't want to do damage to my gun with corrosion, should I fire the round in the gun and clean barrel then reload. I'm using BH209.

txhunter58 · Jan 10, 2023

You should be fine. If it’s been dry I would just leave it as it is until you fire at an animal. If it’s been rainy or very humid, I would fire the bullet, then run a DRY patch down ( both sides) and reload. No reason to clean the rifle.

Wiszard · Jan 10, 2023

And the age old question....why remove scopes? The amount of elk wounded will increase. My guess is this is changed to give the elk a better chance at survival. Why not just reduce tags? I'm not against open sites....just seems that it will do more damage than good to the elk.

txhunter58 · Jan 10, 2023

I think they were trying this instead of reducing tags. There would be a lot of teeth gnashing if they did that. Only time will tell if they made the right choice.

Servehim · Jan 10, 2023

txhunter58 said:
You should be fine. If it’s been dry I would just leave it as it is until you fire at an animal. If it’s been rainy or very humid, I would fire the bullet, then run a DRY patch down ( both sides) and reload. No reason to clean the rifle.

Thank you sir, I has been humid , fogged out this morning. If I don't get an opportunity tomorrow morning ill do as you suggested. Muchas Gracias

Skykarp · Jan 10, 2023

I think F&G was damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. Cut tags or try and cut harvest.

The wounding aspect will only come into play if people start taking unethical shots with their experience on open sights. It’s already started with “ I’m going to practice to X with open sights”

God forbid you have to get in close.

Wiszard · Jan 10, 2023

Skykarp said:
I think F&G was damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. Cut tags or try and cut harvest.

The wounding aspect will only come into play if people start taking unethical shots with their experience on open sights. It’s already started with “ I’m going to practice to X with open sights”

God forbid you have to get in close.

That is the problem. I think it is clear that SOME won't get close enough. It is what it is.....

Stevo · Jan 13, 2023

So does the new rule just effect deer and not elk? " Scopes, sabots and in-line ignition may be used with muzzleloaders except during restricted muzzleloader deer hunts." Is what I'm looking at on the NMDGF website.

roadrunner · Jan 13, 2023

Skykarp said:
I think F&G was damned if they did and damned if they didn’t. Cut tags or try and cut harvest.

The wounding aspect will only come into play if people start taking unethical shots with their experience on open sights. It’s already started with “ I’m going to practice to X with open sights”

God forbid you have to get in close.

Just remember, your definition of ethics is different from someone else's, which is why it's a moot endeavor...

txhunter58 · Jan 14, 2023

Stevo said:
So does the new rule just effect deer and not elk? " Scopes, sabots and in-line ignition may be used with muzzleloaders except during restricted muzzleloader deer hunts." Is what I'm looking at on the NMDGF website.

You must be looking at regs from previous years. Even when scopes were allowed, there were some true primitive muzzlloading hunts. On those hunts currently, they are still more restrictive than the general Muzzy hunts. Going forward, no scopes allowed on any deer and elk muzzleloading hunts.

roadrunner · Jan 14, 2023

No scopes on muzzleloaders in NM for any hunt that has a "3" in the hunt code for weapon type.

https://www.wildlife.state.nm.us/do...02-New-Important-Contacts-Reminders-Dates.pdf

Stevo · Jan 14, 2023

txhunter58 said:
You must be looking at regs from previous years. Even when scopes were allowed, there were some true primitive muzzlloading hunts. On those hunts currently, they are still more restrictive than the general Muzzy hunts. Going forward, no scopes allowed on any deer and elk muzzleloading hunts.

ok, thanks. Someone better update their big game rules.

Big Game Rules - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish

New Mexico big game hunting rules including legal arms, harvest reporting, waste, proof, storage of game, donation & more. See also General Hunting Rules.

www.wildlife.state.nm.us

roadrunner · Jan 14, 2023

Stevo said:
ok, thanks. Someone better update their big game rules.

Big Game Rules - New Mexico Department of Game & Fish

New Mexico big game hunting rules including legal arms, harvest reporting, waste, proof, storage of game, donation & more. See also General Hunting Rules.

www.wildlife.state.nm.us

They have been. The link I posted is from the 2023 - 2024 regs.

Stevo · Jan 14, 2023

roadrunner said:
They have been. The link I posted is from the 2023 - 2024 regs.

the link I posted is also on the website right now as well

txhunter58 · Jan 14, 2023

Stevo said:
the link I posted is also on the website right now as well

Yes but the link you posted says 22/23 regs. The one you want are 23/24

roadrunner · Jan 14, 2023

Here's a screen shot of the reg for next year.

Skykarp · Jan 15, 2023

roadrunner said:
Just remember, your definition of ethics is different from someone else's, which is why it's a moot endeavor...

I think it’s only a moot endeavor If you stop talking about it.

Hunters always want to break out the pitch forks when Fish and Game depts change the rules. They never actually want to hold each other accountable.

roadrunner · Jan 15, 2023

Skykarp said:
I think it’s only a moot endeavor If you stop talking about it.

Hunters always want to break out the pitch forks when Fish and Game depts change the rules. They never actually want to hold each other accountable.

And hunters always want to break out the pitchforks when others do what they disagree with, even though it is completely legal.

A folly of human nature...

Kalalau · Jan 16, 2023

txhunter58 said:
I think they were trying this instead of reducing tags. There would be a lot of teeth gnashing if they did that. Only time will tell if they made the right choice.

There were 80 tags cut for 16b which doesn’t have a muzzleloader season. Archery tags remain the same as last years amount.

gopher1 · Jan 25, 2023

maybe they will have more tags to compensate for harder hunt? just throwing this out there.

txhunter58 · Jan 26, 2023

Kalalau said:
There were 80 tags cut for 16b which doesn’t have a muzzleloader season. Archery tags remain the same as last years amount.

How are you determining that since they don’t have tag numbers out yet for this year? I assume you must be talking about this past falls numbers compared to the previous year?

Kalalau · Feb 1, 2023

txhunter58 said:
How are you determining that since they don’t have tag numbers out yet for this year? I assume you must be talking about this past falls numbers compared to the previous year?

Tag numbers are out. if you add the amount of rifle Elk tags given in 2022 over the 3 rifle hunts in 16b, the amount of rifle tags allocated to 16b in 2023 will be 80 less Elk tags.

txhunter58 · Feb 2, 2023

Link? Every other state I know of waits to see about winter kill before setting final tag numbers. Not NM?

roadrunner · Feb 2, 2023

txhunter58 said:
Link? Every other state I know of waits to see about winter kill before setting final tag numbers. Not NM?

Nope. Winters usually aren't bad enough, especially the further south you get.

Kalalau · Feb 2, 2023

See the attached documents. It shows tag allocations for 2022 and 2023. These pages are from the NMDF&G booklets.

Kalalau · Feb 2, 2023

txhunter58 said:
Link? Every other state I know of waits to see about winter kill before setting final tag numbers. Not NM?

Sorry it’s 95 tags that have been cut in 16B rifle hunts. My addition is not very good

lve2143 · Apr 9, 2023

I’ve been in Parchmet Prison in Mississippi for 10 years on a Robbery charge. They won’t let you look at MM there.
I got out last week, and was amazed to see people actually still listen to txhunter58.
Didn’t some similar folk under Jim Jones do the same thing

txhunter58 · Apr 10, 2023

Dang, I used all my cool-aid already.?

I know a thing or two about muzzleloaders with open sights, having hunted that way for over 30 years, but about NM hunting or hunting with a scope on a Muzzy, I know nothing. But looking to expand my horizons as I also get out of prison (working for 42 years!) and enter retirement. ?

Zim · Apr 21, 2023

Glory be it took applying for a mystery weapon in a low tier deer “opportunity” unit but I finally drew a random tag in NM after 12 years of futility. Only after confirming I drew did I bother to pull out my old mzl I’ve not fired in over a decade. I mostly just bowhunt but wanted a tag and the Pecos odds were reasonable. Came here immediately to see the details of the weapon requirements and advise on what iron sights are legal under the new regs. Can we use pellet loads? I’ve watched some YouTube videos and curious what is the best legal sight option. Maybe this Williams Western Precision system? Anyone know if that setup is suitable for 63 year old eyes like mine? I shoot a peep sight with my compound bow OK so it seems I could. Thanks.

roadrunner · Apr 21, 2023

The Western Precision system is legal. Pellets, 209 primers, and sabots are okay to use.

yotebuster17 · Apr 21, 2023

I used a Williams peep on the rear base that clamps on a weaver rail and then a Lyman globe front with a Lee shaver fine crosshair in it (that’s where the magic is).

cannonball · Apr 21, 2023

HERE IS WHAT MAY COME UP FOR DISCUSSION IN UTAH: Recommendations for weapons used in "RESTRICTED weapons hunts" (Restricted weapons hunts are for hunts where the weapons would have particular specifications)

The proposed changes to the general-season weapons listed above would also apply to weapons used in the "restricted weapons hunts," in addition to the following specifications:

Archery: Archery equipment may be used for a restricted archery hunt if it meets all the following specifications: The bow must be a single-stringed recurve or a longbow. It must not have sights or any cables, pulleys, cams or attached electronic devices. And it must have a draw weight of 40 pounds or more. Restricted archery permits may not be used on an extended archery hunt.

Muzzleloader: A muzzleloader may be used for a restricted muzzleloader hunt if it meets all of the following specifications: It must be equipped only with a flint percussion cap or a musket cap. It must be equipped with an ignition system in which the entire cap is clearly exposed and visible when the hammer of the weapon is cocked and ready to fire. It must be free of any electronic devices, and it must have only open sights or peep sights.

Any weapon (rifle): A rifle may be used for a restricted any weapon hunt if it meets all of the following specifications: It must have only open sights or peep sights. It must be free of any electronic devices, and it cannot be a semi-

roadrunner · Apr 21, 2023

cannonball said:
HERE IS WHAT MAY COME UP FOR DISCUSSION IN UTAH: Recommendations for weapons used in "RESTRICTED weapons hunts" (Restricted weapons hunts are for hunts where the weapons would have particular specifications)

The proposed changes to the general-season weapons listed above would also apply to weapons used in the "restricted weapons hunts," in addition to the following specifications:

Archery: Archery equipment may be used for a restricted archery hunt if it meets all the following specifications: The bow must be a single-stringed recurve or a longbow. It must not have sights or any cables, pulleys, cams or attached electronic devices. And it must have a draw weight of 40 pounds or more. Restricted archery permits may not be used on an extended archery hunt.

Muzzleloader: A muzzleloader may be used for a restricted muzzleloader hunt if it meets all of the following specifications: It must be equipped only with a flint percussion cap or a musket cap. It must be equipped with an ignition system in which the entire cap is clearly exposed and visible when the hammer of the weapon is cocked and ready to fire. It must be free of any electronic devices, and it must have only open sights or peep sights.

Any weapon (rifle): A rifle may be used for a restricted any weapon hunt if it meets all of the following specifications: It must have only open sights or peep sights. It must be free of any electronic devices, and it cannot be a semi-

Good thing UT isn't the state of discussion here.

cannonball · Apr 22, 2023

I understand Utah Wildlife Board tabled some of the discussion for further review and input. Hope their discussion delay didn't include this for no action --- again.

Zim · Apr 22, 2023

cannonball said:
HERE IS WHAT MAY COME UP FOR DISCUSSION IN UTAH: Recommendations for weapons used in "RESTRICTED weapons hunts" (Restricted weapons hunts are for hunts where the weapons would have particular specifications)

The proposed changes to the general-season weapons listed above would also apply to weapons used in the "restricted weapons hunts," in addition to the following specifications:

Archery: Archery equipment may be used for a restricted archery hunt if it meets all the following specifications: The bow must be a single-stringed recurve or a longbow. It must not have sights or any cables, pulleys, cams or attached electronic devices. And it must have a draw weight of 40 pounds or more. Restricted archery permits may not be used on an extended archery hunt.

Muzzleloader: A muzzleloader may be used for a restricted muzzleloader hunt if it meets all of the following specifications: It must be equipped only with a flint percussion cap or a musket cap. It must be equipped with an ignition system in which the entire cap is clearly exposed and visible when the hammer of the weapon is cocked and ready to fire. It must be free of any electronic devices, and it must have only open sights or peep sights.

Any weapon (rifle): A rifle may be used for a restricted any weapon hunt if it meets all of the following specifications: It must have only open sights or peep sights. It must be free of any electronic devices, and it cannot be a semi-

Not sure if this is a joke or not, but I would be all for it. Despite the fact supply & demand is so haywire these days they could restrict archery season to atlatl only and the odds for a low tier elk tag would still be <1%.

cannonball · Apr 22, 2023

This came right from Utah DWR things for discussion. They are not brave enough to do what is right and change the muzzleloader hunts to be like New Mexico or Oregon. This is their answer and I really like what they are considering.

roadrunner · Apr 22, 2023

cannonball said:
This came right from Utah DWR things for discussion. They are not brave enough to do what is right and change the muzzleloader hunts to be like New Mexico or Oregon. This is their answer and I really like what they are considering.

Then UT will have to extend muzzy antelope hunts to 3 or 4 weeks long as most shots will have to be under 75 yds.

Glad NM at least has the sense to understand that for muzzleloader hunting to be an effective management method still needs to have some modern advantage involved.

Zim · Apr 22, 2023

Ordered a Williams Precision sight today. They are just 3 hours from me so hopefully will arrive by the 27th, when I’ll be turkey hunting a F&W area nearby that has a firing range.

roadrunner · May 30, 2023

Zim said:
Ordered a Williams Precision sight today. They are just 3 hours from me so hopefully will arrive by the 27th, when I’ll be turkey hunting a F&W area nearby that has a firing range.

Real life update to setting up a Williams Precision. You can run out of room on rear sight adjustment, depending on your load, at a 100 yd sight in.

For someone with 50ish year old eyes needing correction for distance, you can adequately make a 200 yd shot, beyond is tricky as it's difficult to make a 1 sqft target out beyond that (even for someone with 20/20 vision).

The vertical part of the crosshair is just too big for any hold over when it transitions from thin to thick when using the BDR for the front sight.

ortegageno · May 30, 2023

Also , Do not go and buy a Traditions firestick muzzleloader for NM hunting as they are Illegal According to game and fish.

Zim · May 30, 2023

Ya it’s been so long since I shot my Thompson and my eyes have aged that I don’t have a clue at what distance I will be able to focus in on. But did finally get my ammo from Midway. Will start experimenting Fri/Sat.