Colo res vs nonres quotas

J

jims

Long Time Member
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Everyone on this website is aware of my stance on 90/10 for nonres DIY/OYO hunters in Wyoming. Some have mentioned that my stance is inconsistent in my home state of Colorado. As everyone is aware, Colo is currently the most nonres-friendly state in the entire Western US. Not only are nonres offered unlimited OTC elk tags but 20 or 35% of the current limited high demand elk and deer tags are issued to nonres. Many nonres may not be aware, but Colo nonres pronghorn and black bear quotas are not currently included in the 20 or 35% deer and elk quota system. Nonres quotas for Colo antelope and bear are actually even higher! Also, there are a gob of nonres OTC antelope archery units available that can be hunted every year. Colo also offers landowner transferable tags that can be purchased every year by both nonres and res. Colo also offers a great opportunity for nonres in the re-issue draw. As you can see Colo currently offers nonres diy/oyo hunters amazing opportunity! I'm actually proud of that fact!

I'm all in favor of supporting nonres DIY/OYO hunters in Colorado. It's really a shame to see Western states limiting nonres opportunity. Also, as I've said all along, the younger generation of hunters that aren't fortunate to live in a Western state's doors are slowly but surely closing with less and less opportunity every year. The loss of the Western US diy/oyo hunting heritage is slowly but surely disappearing.

There is a lot of current talk in Colo to convert from OTC elk to all limited draw elk...especially for nonres. This change would be similar to Wyo's current nonres general tag allotments. Currently if nonres don't draw an elk tag they are free to hunt Colo elk each and every year. Pretty neat opportunity for DIY/OYO nonres hunters.

I am actually in favor of going to all limited elk across Colo for both res and nonres. It would finally allow the CPW to manage both elk harvest and elk hunting pressure (which currently is impossible). Going to all limited would also mean that all bull hunters that draw tags will be required to burn pref pts rather than building pts. If you've hunted OTC in Colo you are well aware of the orange army. I'm all in favor of higher quality experience and quality of bulls! Also, potentially less hunting pressure on Colo's public land.

There is no doubt in my mind the value of nonres to the CPW and local small town community revenues. I'm certain this will be kept in mind with any quota changes. The last time Colo res brought up converting to all draw units for elk, the Western Colo business owners combined forces and had it axed. I understand completely where they are coming from.

Even if nonres limited quota tags are cut across the board to 20% of tags this still is more nonres tags issued than Wyo's current limited tag allotments. If Wyo converts to 90/10 or any other limited tag cuts it will only give Colo res more momentum to follow suite and severely cut nonres opportunity in Colo.

Obviously if there are fewer nonres tags issued in Wyo where will nonres hunt.......Colo!!!!! I can guarantee local business owners won't complain! Colo can only handle so much OTC hunting pressure and high demand tags will become even tougher to draw in both Wyo and Colo. If Wyo cuts nonres opportunity I can pretty much guarantee Colo will follow suite.

With that said, I would encourage OYO/DIY nonres to stay current on quota issues in both Wyo and Colo.

If you have any constructive comments to add, please include them on this post. My hope is that bashing is kept to a minimum.
 
Bookhead said:
I'd take a wyoming general elk tag over a colorado otc tag and so would would most everyone else. You can keep those
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Everyone would, that's not the crux of the discussion. Even the op stated Colorado should go to a draw instead of OTC. The issue is DIY Non-res and businesses in small towns are impacted by decisions made in both states on non-res allocation. I don't know what is best, but businesses and game departments would benefit more from higher non-res allocation.
 
nripepi said:
… businesses and game departments would benefit more from higher non-res allocation.
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This is absolutely true.

I just can’t figure out why CO residents seem to be the only residents that make this argument. When it would seem to counter to their own interests.
 
Might want to keep in mind that "going to a draw" and reducing hunting pressure are two completely different things. Simply making a unit draw doesn't assure less hunters. In the archery elk units which CPW converted from OTC to draw in recent years, they set the quotas so high that the bulk of the licenses are drawn with zero points or as a 2nd choice which uses no points. Only a small percentage of those licenses are being drawn using points. The CPW will no doubt try and continue selling the same amount of licenses to maintain the revenue stream, regardless whether the licenses are issued by draw or OTC. If the whole state goes draw for elk, NR's will still have the option to use Colorado as their "back-up plan" as they can simply wait and pick up a leftover license later if they don't draw a more desirable hunt in another state. Same for residents....they can apply for a high-point unit as first choice, and be guaranteed a lower-quality type hunt as a lower choice without using any points.
 
Crampy said:
This is absolutely true.

I just can’t figure out why CO residents seem to be the only residents that make this argument. When it would seem to counter to their own interests.
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It definitely counters their interests, but it is true,.so maybe that is why?
 
CPW will get the qualifying license on the draws... means more money. That alone will convince them to go all draw. Nothing I say or do would have as much effect.
 
Here's an interesting table with nonres vs res hunter numbers for OTC elk tags in Wyo. Notice that there actually are more nonres vs res archery OTC elk hunters in Colorado! It also shows that the number of nonres hunters are increasing each year. At some point shouldn't there me a cap on hunting pressure? This also illustrates the how nonres-friendly Colorado is to nonres hunters!
OTC colo elk.jpeg
 
Here's a map of the OTC 2nd and 3rd season units in Colorado (OTC units are shaded). Take a look at how many OTC vs limited units there are in the Western ½ of Colo.

No wonder there is point creep if there are so few limited elk units available. This reinforces the idea that more hunters would burn rather than compile preference points if all units were limited. It is also difficult for the CPW to effectively manage hunter numbers and a limited elk resource with so many OTC elk units.

If you think about it, nonres hunters currently have it pretty good hunting OTC elk in unlimited numbers in the shaded area in this table! Compare this to other neighboring states like Wyoming!

1672485267780.jpeg
 
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The State of Colorado likes the non-resident license fees and all the money that non-residents bring into the economy. It will be hard to justify all draw units unless they can make up the difference with pot revenue.
 
As Sticksender mentioned above, just because the CPW goes to all draw doesn't necessarily mean they will sell fewer tags and make less $. The CPW could potentially allocate the same exact number of tags but tags will only be available through a drawing. The nice thing about this is that hunters would likely burn points to hunt rather than building points and going OTC just about every year. It would also spread out hunters applying for limited tags over a lot more units.

The CPW could also have the option of increasing tag prices with a chunk fewer tags issued. As a Colo resident I would be all in favor of paying a little more for a quality tag and hunt compared to what OTC elk units currently offer. I'm sure a lot of nonres would also agree.

I really think that all limited tags is a step in the right direction to manage over-crowding of hunters and proper elk herd management.

With that said, it is evident how important nonresident hunters are to Colorado revenue!
 
sticksender said:
Might want to keep in mind that "going to a draw" and reducing hunting pressure are two completely different things. Simply making a unit draw doesn't assure less
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I generally believe that the number of big game hunters needs to be more limited in most states, for many reasons…but mostly because I believe it is fundamentally important to have mature bucks and bulls on the landscape. It is just not natural when all the mature bucks and bulls are eliminated. It can be disheartening and I think there has been a lot of denial about the effects of hunting pressure on mule deer populations. The argument that we just need to increase herd size rather than limit hunters is not working in most places. However, I agree that “going to a draw” does not always equate to reduced hunting pressure, because hunters that are lucky enough to draw tags often tend to hunt harder and recruit more non-licensed “helpers”. I don’t have an issue with draw hunters going out with one or two friends or family, or with a licensed guide, but it can get ugly for those that are lucky enough to actually have a tag. It is a difficult situation when you have too many hunters and not enough wildlife.
 
A good hunt can still be found with some scouting. I think guys like randy newberg are great embassadors for hunting. However one of his otc spots is the area I hunt. I’ve noticed a much larger non res presence. Not that it’s all bad but thanks to onyx and google earth there are no secrets.
 
Unfortunately for many states (Colo included), game management decisions are made with $ and revenue in mind rather than sound biological science and management practices!

A great example of this in Colo is the CPW using CWD as an excuse to harvest more mature bucks during the middle of the rut. More tags = more $. Anyone that’s been around CWD long enough knows that increasing hunting pressure does absolutely nothing to prevent CWD prevalence and spread.
 
It started going downhill when Parks merged with Wildlife. It completely went off the cliff with the introduction of wolves. If a couple of packs of wolves released in Yellowstone had the capability of destroying the population of elk, deer, and moose of three different states, how long do we have before there are no more elk even to fight over?
 
I’m in Colorado quite a bit. As a NR I will say that elk need to go to LE for all hunting. Just too many people running around out there. You can’t keep things the way the have always been with as many people that are out there.

One of the things that will happen if all elk seasons go limited is that there will be vouchers. If elk seasons aren’t limited for all seasons, there are no vouchers for the limited entry seasons like 1st and 4th.
 
Changing up a couple landowner voucher problems would improve a couple major problems in Colo.

#1 If landowner vouchers were only good on private land this would relieve hunting pressure on public land and slightly increase hunting pressure on private ground.

#2 Require hunters that purchase vouchers to use rather than build pref pts.
 
CPW thinks things are just fine in Colorado. They have basically said as much in recent meetings and actions.

I will eventually use my deer points in Colorado but I can't imagine traveling to Colorado for elk or antelope.

Listening to Colorado residents, it seems like most of them would rather hunt elsewhere also.
 
Much of the winter range in CO is private. If you make wildlife unprofitable for landowners they will be a nuisance and treated as such. Don’t really think the over crowding in CO is from unit wide landowner tags. I feel CO has the vouchers just about right. I could agree with losing your points if you use a voucher.
 
I think the voucher program should be done away with. All tags should be issued through the draw.

There will still be value in having wildlife on private land to the landowners, leases are a real thing.

If they can't lease it, too bad...wildlife is a condition of owning land.

As to the rest, its really interesting that when Wyoming wants to go to 90-10 the small towns are going to evaporate, GF is going to go broke, Residents will have to pay thousands for tags to offset the loses.

Colorado does it and the same CO Residents howling about WY are fine with limiting NR's there.

As interesting as it is predictable.
 
Hunting isn’t as important to the small towns around here as it once was. Well, Walmart and Maverik do ok.

Otherwise you can’t even find a sporting goods store in these parts. Gone are the days of elk racks and orange in the windows downtown. It’s bicycles now.

NR’s significantly overestimate their importance to the local economies.
 
Bluehair said:
Hunting isn’t as important to the small towns around here as it once was. Well, Walmart and Maverik do ok.

Otherwise you can’t even find a sporting goods store in these parts. Gone are the days of elk racks and orange in the windows downtown. It’s bicycles now.

NR’s significantly overestimate their importance to the local economies.
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That’s the truth, even on the western slope it’s more winter sports and mountain bikes.
 
none of the ideas have teeth unless you take away the ability to get a point and hunt every year. It would affect me negatively since I loved playing the get and tag and get a point game, but you have to stop that. Take away 2-4th choice, and make every one choose to get a point and stay at home or get a tag. So no OTC hunts + a point, no left over + a point. You either get a point and stay home or you hunt. This would be a step in the right direction. Then if you made all units draw it would force guys to burn points on a more regular basis and not let them stack them up while still defaulting to Co
 
BuzzH said:
I think the voucher program should be done away with. All tags should be issued through the draw.

There will still be value in having wildlife on private land to the landowners, leases are a real thing.

If they can't lease it, too bad...wildlife is a condition of owning land.

As to the rest, its really interesting that when Wyoming wants to go to 90-10 the small towns are going to evaporate, GF is going to go broke, Residents will have to pay thousands for tags to offset the loses.

Colorado does it and the same CO Residents howling about WY are fine with limiting NR's there.

As interesting as it is predictable.
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I actually agree with wyo going 90/10 and I’m invested in wyo with points. I don’t think it would do any of that to the state. Because leftovers can still get sold to NR, R just get first crack, just like I think Co R should have. No land owner vouchers is interesting as the bulk of those vouchers goes to NR via outfitters. The one state where land vouchers would benefit me is AZ where they don’t exist, but I also kind of think it is fair. I wonder what would happen to all the big ranches owned by NR if they lose the ability to hunt their land every year? Definitely a thought though
 
gundog2 said:
I generally believe that the number of big game hunters needs to be more limited in most states, for many reasons…but mostly because I believe it is fundamentally important to have mature bucks and bulls on the landscape. It is just not natural when all the mature bucks and bulls are eliminated. It can be disheartening and I think there has been a lot of denial about the effects of hunting pressure on mule deer populations. The argument that we just need to increase herd size rather than limit hunters is not working in most places. However, I agree that “going to a draw” does not always equate to reduced hunting pressure, because hunters that are lucky enough to draw tags often tend to hunt harder and recruit more non-licensed “helpers”. I don’t have an issue with draw hunters going out with one or two friends or family, or with a licensed guide, but it can get ugly for those that are lucky enough to actually have a tag. It is a difficult situation when you have too many hunters and not enough wildlife.
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Fish and wildlife across the west have failed us.
They have all done a very poor job of maintaining wildlife and habit. Why has it been up to the Elk foundation, SCI, Mule deer foundation and others to improve and expand habit??? That is the job of each states wildlife department. We have proven we will give the money to support this. The real problem is not to many hunters its to little habit and wildlife. We fight about resident - nonresident, tag numbers, game cameras, long range, archery wounding, etc. While anti hunters group together and beat us. State wildlife departments do little or nothing to fight anti-hunting.
 
BuzzH said:
I think the voucher program should be done away with. All tags should be issued through the draw.

There will still be value in having wildlife on private land to the landowners, leases are a real thing.

If they can't lease it, too bad...wildlife is a condition of owning land.

As to the rest, its really interesting that when Wyoming wants to go to 90-10 the small towns are going to evaporate, GF is going to go broke, Residents will have to pay thousands for tags to offset the loses.

Colorado does it and the same CO Residents howling about WY are fine with limiting NR's there.

As interesting as it is predictable.
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Well said!
 
jims said:
As Sticksender mentioned above, just because the CPW goes to all draw doesn't necessarily mean they will sell fewer tags and make less $. The CPW could potentially allocate the same exact number of tags but tags will only be available through a drawing. The nice thing about this is that hunters would likely burn points to hunt rather than building points and going OTC just about every year. It would also spread out hunters applying for limited tags over a lot more units.

The CPW could also have the option of increasing tag prices with a chunk fewer tags issued. As a Colo resident I would be all in favor of paying a little more for a quality tag and hunt compared to what OTC elk units currently offer. I'm sure a lot of nonres would also agree.

I really think that all limited tags is a step in the right direction to manage over-crowding of hunters and proper elk herd management.

With that said, it is evident how important nonresident hunters are to Colorado revenue!
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There will be a bunch of guys that will not take the time and effort to apply. They will lose numbers. I don’t care one way or another I have always plated the draw which included a unit 2 archery tag. Never see that again though lol
 
Bluehair said:
Hunting isn’t as important to the small towns around here as it once was. Well, Walmart and Maverik do ok.

Otherwise you can’t even find a sporting goods store in these parts. Gone are the days of elk racks and orange in the windows downtown. It’s bicycles now.

NR’s significantly overestimate their importance to the local economies.
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I read that non-resident hunters bring in 50 million dollars in revenue, that's a lot of money to thumb your nose at.
 
Sako76 said:
I read that non-resident hunters bring in 50 million dollars in revenue, that's a lot of money to thumb your nose at.
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Yeah…..they’re paying for wolf reintroductions and all kinds of things that help our local economies.

The big money dudes who cruise thru here on their way to trashing the woods don’t even fill up their dozen gas cans here anymore.

Like I said, liberal government programs and Walmart. I can’t imagine what it would be like if our Walmart closed. Thanks (y)


That was partly sarcasm.
 
Bluehair said:
Yeah…..they’re paying for wolf reintroductions and all kinds of things that help our local economies.

The big money dudes who cruise thru here on their way to trashing the woods don’t even fill up their dozen gas cans here anymore.

Like I said, liberal government programs and Walmart. I can’t imagine what it would be like if our Walmart closed. Thanks (y)


That was partly sarcasm.
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So you're blaming non-residents for wolf reintroductions that the residents of Colorado voted for?

I've filled up my truck several times in Craig at pretty high prices.

Be careful what you ask for, you might regret it!

Full Sarcasm!
 
Sako76 said:
So you're blaming non-residents for wolf reintroductions that the residents of Colorado voted for?

I've filled up my truck several times in Craig at pretty high prices.

Be careful what you ask for, you might regret it!

Full Sarcasm!
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I apologize for my negative tone. I was arguing with a bunch of lawyers.

No not blaming NR’s; I actually like most of the NR hunters. Hella lot better than the bicycles and motorhomes.

I just think the NR contribution to rural economies (in most places) is embellished by co-mingling it with the overall state revenue estimates.

I can’t believe I’m about to say this, but if we were really lifting the hood for a hard look I would make the case that private landowner tags make a MUCH greater impact on most rural local economies than DIY public land type tags awarded thru the draws.

My neighbors get a few bucks to buy a new powerstroke, and the local guides and outfitters stay busy for a couple of months. Lot’s of those voucher guys even eat at the local cafes.

Im just glad wildlife isn’t managed based on economics. ;)
 
Landowner hunter revenue is only a drop in the bucket and a small contribution to local economies compared to otc elk hunter contribution.

Like I said before, those that purchase landowner tags should be required to burn their pref pts and relieve hunting pressure on public land by only being available to hunt on private land.

Why should landowner tag recipients be able to build pref pts and hunt limited units the same year?
 
jims said:
Landowner hunter revenue is only a drop in the bucket and a small contribution to local economies compared to otc elk hunter contribution.

Like I said before, those that purchase landowner tags should be required to burn their pref pts and relieve hunting pressure on public land by only being available to hunt on private land.

Why should landowner tag recipients be able to build pref pts and hunt limited units the same year?
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Not around here it’s not. Beyond the tank of fuel, please explain to me how an OTC elk hunters dollar benefits our local economy. For extra credit, tell me how much of that fuel payment stays here in Podunk CO.

The party line that my existence depends on some yellow plate driving thru town twice a year is bullroar.
 
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IMG_1622.jpg


file:///C:/Users/jsebastian/Downloads/The-2017-Economic-Contributions-of-Outdoor-Recreation-in-Colorado.pdf

www.coloradoan.com

Big-game hunting is big money for Colorado

Hunting generates $38.1 million annually in total economic output in Larimer County.
www.coloradoan.com

Hunters crucial to Colorado economy

Big game hunting brings in big bucks for Colorado
www.gohunt.com www.gohunt.com

cowildlifecouncil.org

Benefits for all - Colorado Wildlife Council

It might surprise you, but hunting and fishing benefit Colorado year-round. However, not everyone recognizes the critical role sportspeople play in conservation, wildlife management and economic development in our state.
cowildlifecouncil.org cowildlifecouncil.org

How Big Game Hunting in Colorado Helps the State’s Economy - Samuelson Outfitters LLC

How does big game hunting help Colorado’s economy? Samuelsson Outfitters discusses that and more in their new blog post.
www.samuelsonoutfitters.com www.samuelsonoutfitters.com

pagosasprings.com

Hunters Important for Colorado’s Economy? - Pagosa Springs Journal

How important are hunters for Colorado’s economy? Hunting specifically supports thousands of jobs, both rural and urban, across the state of Colorado, and our goal is to provide a unified voice for all of these stakeholders. Hunting Works For Colorado will monitor public policy decisions and...
pagosasprings.com pagosasprings.com
 
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Oh boy here we go again, pretending that guys that camp, bring all their own mountain house and fuel, and fill up twice keep all the mountain towns open… if you don’t live in Co anymore you might want to sit this out. Co is so damn full of money that shacks in the hills are still selling for over 500k, lots of yuppies, lots of remote workers…
 
Bluehair said:
Not around here it’s not. Beyond the tank of fuel, please explain to me how an OTC elk hunters dollar benefits our local economy. For extra credit, tell me how much of that fuel payment stays here in Podunk CO.

The party line that my existence depends on some yellow plate driving thru town twice a year is bullroar.t
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jims said:
View attachment 99865

file:///C:/Users/jsebastian/Downloads/The-2017-Economic-Contributions-of-Outdoor-Recreation-in-Colorado.pdf

www.coloradoan.com

Big-game hunting is big money for Colorado

Hunting generates $38.1 million annually in total economic output in Larimer County.
www.coloradoan.com

Hunters crucial to Colorado economy

Big game hunting brings in big bucks for Colorado
www.gohunt.com www.gohunt.com

cowildlifecouncil.org

Benefits for all - Colorado Wildlife Council

It might surprise you, but hunting and fishing benefit Colorado year-round. However, not everyone recognizes the critical role sportspeople play in conservation, wildlife management and economic development in our state.
cowildlifecouncil.org cowildlifecouncil.org

How Big Game Hunting in Colorado Helps the State’s Economy - Samuelson Outfitters LLC

How does big game hunting help Colorado’s economy? Samuelsson Outfitters discusses that and more in their new blog post.
www.samuelsonoutfitters.com www.samuelsonoutfitters.com

pagosasprings.com

Hunters Important for Colorado’s Economy? - Pagosa Springs Journal

How important are hunters for Colorado’s economy? Hunting specifically supports thousands of jobs, both rural and urban, across the state of Colorado, and our goal is to provide a unified voice for all of these stakeholders. Hunting Works For Colorado will monitor public policy decisions and...
pagosasprings.com pagosasprings.com
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I've been hunting Colorado since 1992. I hunted New Foundland last year, the most recent year I hunted Colorado was 2021. Below is a break down of most of the funds that I spent in Colorado.

Outfitter--$6000.00 (he lives in Hayden)

NR Licenses--Deer and elk--about $1000!

Brothers in Craig--$700 butchering and euro mount

Tips to guide and cook--$750--they live in Hayden

2 nights hotel in Craig--$300

CUM and Go gas. $200

Various dinners and lunches in The Village Shop (which I heard closed) and that bar that serves great steaks and ribs?? Couple of hundred.

Trips to Walmart and Murdock's for various stuff ( hand warmers, towels, munchies, Gatorade, pharmacy stuff). $$??

Liquor store. $100

I bought a set of chains from Murphy's. I used to hit Cashway and Craig Sporting goods before they closed.

This times two! I'm thinking not much money leaves Colorado but I'm a non-resident so what do I know.

I hunt private land in Hamilton, I've been to a bunch of BLM and National Forest (Yellow Jacket Pass and Moropamos Creek) during hunting season after tagging out and riding around, and I just don't see the crowds that you are talking about, deer tags, that's another story.

Money spent shouldn't dictate how hunting seasons are decided. I just don't like being bashed for hunting in a state that I love. I doubt Colorado wants to see the money leave.

My buddy and I spent a long time at Bear Ears Range north of Craig helping a whole bunch of resident hunters sight in. They were great guys and very welcoming.
 
Sako76 said:
I've been hunting Colorado since 1992. I hunted New Foundland last year, the most recent year I hunted Colorado was 2021. Below is a break down of most of the funds that I spent in Colorado.

Outfitter--$6000.00 (he lives in Hayden)

NR Licenses--Deer and elk--about $1000!

Brothers in Craig--$700 butchering and euro mount

Tips to guide and cook--$750--they live in Hayden

2 nights hotel in Craig--$300

CUM and Go gas. $200

Various dinners and lunches in The Village Shop (which I heard closed) and that bar that serves great steaks and ribs?? Couple of hundred.

Trips to Walmart and Murdock's for various stuff ( hand warmers, towels, munchies, Gatorade, pharmacy stuff). $$??

Liquor store. $100

I bought a set of chains from Murphy's. I used to hit Cashway and Craig Sporting goods before they closed.

This times two! I'm thinking not much money leaves Colorado but I'm a non-resident so what do I know.

I hunt private land in Hamilton, I've been to a bunch of BLM and National Forest (Yellow Jacket Pass and Moropamos Creek) during hunting season after tagging out and riding around, and I just don't see the crowds that you are talking about, deer tags, that's another story.

Money spent shouldn't dictate how hunting seasons are decided. I just don't like being bashed for hunting in a state that I love. I doubt Colorado wants to see the money leave.

My buddy and I spent a long time at Bear Ears Range north of Craig helping a whole bunch of resident hunters sight in. They were great guys and very welcoming.
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See, that’s my kind of huntin trip (y) , although the liquor is a little light.

Didn’t intend to bash. For the most part we’re still welcoming to the outa staters, but it doesn’t help the cause to walk around patting yourself on the back for keeping walmart and maverik alive.

Like they say in Mexico, come back soon and bring more money!:)
 
Sako76 said:
I've been hunting Colorado since 1992. I hunted New Foundland last year, the most recent year I hunted Colorado was 2021. Below is a break down of most of the funds that I spent in Colorado.

Outfitter--$6000.00 (he lives in Hayden)

NR Licenses--Deer and elk--about $1000!

Brothers in Craig--$700 butchering and euro mount

Tips to guide and cook--$750--they live in Hayden

2 nights hotel in Craig--$300

CUM and Go gas. $200

Various dinners and lunches in The Village Shop (which I heard closed) and that bar that serves great steaks and ribs?? Couple of hundred.

Trips to Walmart and Murdock's for various stuff ( hand warmers, towels, munchies, Gatorade, pharmacy stuff). $$??

Liquor store. $100

I bought a set of chains from Murphy's. I used to hit Cashway and Craig Sporting goods before they closed.

This times two! I'm thinking not much money leaves Colorado but I'm a non-resident so what do I know.

I hunt private land in Hamilton, I've been to a bunch of BLM and National Forest (Yellow Jacket Pass and Moropamos Creek) during hunting season after tagging out and riding around, and I just don't see the crowds that you are talking about, deer tags, that's another story.

Money spent shouldn't dictate how hunting seasons are decided. I just don't like being bashed for hunting in a state that I love. I doubt Colorado wants to see the money leave.

My buddy and I spent a long time at Bear Ears Range north of Craig helping a whole bunch of resident hunters sight in. They were great guys and very welcoming.
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Not hating on all NR hunters, I think that it’s great that you get to come enjoy the state for a week or so, it’s beautiful. I think we Residents just find it amusing when, Co, by far the most generous NR hunting state gets so much damn flak when we say we are making tiny steps to give more Residents first pick of the hunting tags. It instantly turns into a “well you need us NR soooo much, you won’t make it without our beer money and gas station visits”!
 
I'm a Colo res but enjoy hunting other neighboring states as a nonres. I see both sides of the fence.

Everyone knows that I'm an OYO/DIY advocate with disregard to whether a HUNTER is a res or nonres! It's sometimes wild how there often is segregation even though we all are passionate about wildlife and hunting!
 
I don't look at as Resident vs Non-Resident. I have enjoyed most of the Non-Res. Hunters that I have met, both in the field and here on MM. I only look at this as far as opportuninty, We as residents should have the same opportuninty as our surrounding states.
I believe the money spent in stores and gas would be pretty equall. We still have to buy gas, food and beer. So I am not sure why Non-Res think that we get all of that for free.
I also agree that if you hunt on any tag you should not get a preference point.
 
You Coloradan’s get it bad from your reps.

Gasper Perricone is going to show up on a statewide ballot soon. He is one of the commissioner’s behind poor resident treatment.

Make sure you remember his name.
 
I haven't been saying you need us. Maybe I haven't been clear, with the money that NR's bring in, the guys calling the shots don't want to lose that money and I don't think you will get the 90/10 you want.

Believe me, I would be pissed if I couldn't hunt deer every year in the state I live in, same for elk. I think the non-resident hunting morphed into something that can't be stopped.
 
Only good part about the wolf vote is resident hunters learned it just might take a ballot measure to fix the very unfair res/non res allocation.

Or if the cpw does not act in the next 5 year one is in the works. 90-10 split on every license and let the residents vote on it is how it will get done. CPW or budgets constraints will have nothing to say.
 
Kayak_to_hunt said:
Only good part about the wolf vote is resident hunters learned it just might take a ballot measure to fix the very unfair res/non res allocation.

Or if the cpw does not act in the next 5 year one is in the works. 90-10 split on every license and let the residents vote on it is how it will get done. CPW or budgets constraints will have nothing to say.
Click to expand...

You might as well try.

The non hunting residents might be susceptible to all the ads they will see from the chamber of commerce about how the plan will crush tourism.

So you will need ad money in addition to all those signatures.
 
Sako76 said:
I haven't been saying you need us. Maybe I haven't been clear, with the money that NR's bring in, the guys calling the shots don't want to lose that money and I don't think you will get the 90/10 you want.

Believe me, I would be pissed if I couldn't hunt deer every year in the state I live in, same for elk. I think the non-resident hunting morphed into something that can't be stopped.
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Shoot man I just want 80/20 across the board and 90/10 in the 5+ points over here, not even trying for 90/10 across the board
 
It's been awhile since I looked at the numbers but not too long ago between NR income and Federal Grants were around 70% of their budget. Res paid just 30%. You start telling the NR hunter to pound sand and the Res tag prices will go thru the roof. You can't have it both ways.
 
Whatever. If it goes all draw, there will be qualifying licenses for all those ex otc tags. 60/40? Even more tags than now? Actually 60 percent is 80/20 numbers. 60 percent resident, 20 percent nonresident, and 20 percent landowner/ nonresident.
 
The numbers of NR vs Res. To keep the Res tags at a reasonable cost that's the split. If you want to substantially raise the Res tag prices then that's another story. If you want to go 80/20 and Res pay say $300.00 for an elk tag you might be able to pull it off.
 
WestTxHunter said:
It's been awhile since I looked at the numbers but not too long ago between NR income and Federal Grants were around 70% of their budget. Res paid just 30%. You start telling the NR hunter to pound sand and the Res tag prices will go thru the roof. You can't have it both ways.
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Funny how NR think they are special because they pay more and we can't survive without them. Every other Western State survives just fine with 90% R and 10% NR. Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada and Utah.
What if Texas stopped your opportunity to hunt in your own backyard.
 
And crunch the numbers on the qualifying licenses will you are at it. Not trying to be too difficult here, but there's ways it can be done. I'll try to get Buzz to lobby for us. 44409 otc nonresident tags were sold in 2021. That's a quick Google search. Multiply that by approximately 100. Already made 4.4 million. That has already knocked off 5800 nonresidents just by going all nonresident draw.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Funny how NR think they are special because they pay more and we can't survive without them. Every other Western State survives just fine with 90% R and 10% NR. Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada and Utah.
What if Texas stopped your opportunity to hunt in your own backyard.
Click to expand...
Run that by your local DOW office.
 
There were 64000 successful adult people in the elk draw alone. Go up a little and make a lot. Plus otc. It's doable. Whether it happens is another argument. Give me a platform with any resident and I can convince them to pay more. Not substantial amounts, but reasonable amounts. Where do you get 60/40?
 
Deercy said:
And crunch the numbers on the qualifying licenses will you are at it. Not trying to be too difficult here, but there's ways it can be done. I'll try to get Buzz to lobby for us. 44409 otc nonresident tags were sold in 2021. That's a quick Google search. Multiply that by approximately 100. Already made 4.4 million. That has already knocked off 5800 nonresidents just by going all nonresident draw.
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It's been awhile (middle 2000's) since I really dove into the numbers. I was ask to come talk at DOW meeting but they were all during the week. I ask for one on a Saturday and they said no.

They have a budget. If you take away one way you have go get another way.

44,409 x 650 (difference between Res NR Elk tag approx) = $28,865,850 Cut NR by 1/2 and you have 14,400,000 in revenue to make up. You make it up however you want to make it up.
 
DOW isn't dumb. They recognize the problem. They are apprehensive about wolf issues as well. Lots of hunters in those offices. If you hunt here you can't deny the animals are suffering, and we just worry about ourselves. DOW enforces laws that they and we have very little control over.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Run your idea of further limiting NR opportunities by the local DOW office. Pretty straight forward.
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Still not sure why you think you are special. All we are asking for is the same as every other Western State. So you are OK with Texas taking away your opportunity, so when we can't hunt in our backyard, we can come and hunt in yours? You will have to sit in your mom's basement and watch all of the out of state hunters park there trucks and walk around like they own the place.
 
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I'm just tickled they updated the data for the higher demand units and we now have 60/40. That a good day. Everybody buys the 80/20 catch word but it isn't that good even. We hunt here a lot. Me and my boys do a lot of hunting all across the west. Wyoming is much more restrictive on tag numbers but we still are planning on hunting there. I sunk a small fortune in applying in New mexico. We've never drawn a tags there yet but I have a good feeling about this year. When we go hunting, whether it is in this state or another, we spend the same amount of money. The only difference is tag prices. And the main reason I even hunt other states is to fill in opportunity. If I could hunt antelope in my backyard every year I would gladly pay what I pay in Wyoming for nonresident tags.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Still not sure why you think you are special. All we are asking for is the same as every other Western State. So you are OK with Texas taking away your opportunity so when we can't hunt in our backyard, we can come and hunt in your?
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Not sure why your so special. If you really want to get off in the weeds. It's Federal land. We all pay for that. Even the tree huggers in California. Then you'll respond with "well the State owns the animals". I'll respond "who do I send the grazing bill too".

If you want to come hunt on Federal Land in Texas then get after it.

No matter how you skin it. The numbers are the numbers.
 
Animals suffering? I hunted a unit last year with my boy. It's a 2 point guarantee for a muzzleloader tag. The elk talked the 1st day until 10. And the next night. After that I heard an occasional bugle. I hunted in 3rd rifle in the same area and I watched bulls breeding cows. Every bull that bugled in the actual breeding season was converged on. I've said my piece. If all you want to do is try to back me into a corner go ahead. You haven't offered one thing other than empty words. Give me an actual scenario with actual possible solutions.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Not sure why your so special. If you really want to get off in the weeds. It's Federal land. We all pay for that. Even the tree huggers in California. Then you'll respond with "well the State owns the animals". I'll respond "who do I send the grazing bill too".

If you want to come hunt on Federal Land in Texas then get after it.

No matter how you skin it. The numbers are the numbers.
Click to expand...
And the numbers work for all of the other Western States. It is not just Federal Land that NR Hunt.
 
Deercy said:
I'm just tickled they updated the data for the higher demand units and we now have 60/40. That a good day. Everybody buys the 80/20 catch word but it isn't that good even. We hunt here a lot. Me and my boys do a lot of hunting all across the west. Wyoming is much more restrictive on tag numbers but we still are planning on hunting there. I sunk a small fortune in applying in New mexico. We've never drawn a tags there yet but I have a good feeling about this year. When we go hunting, whether it is in this state or another, we spend the same amount of money. The only difference is tag prices. And the main reason I even hunt other states is to fill in opportunity. If I could hunt antelope in my backyard every year I would gladly pay what I pay in Wyoming for nonresident tags.
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We always have a good feeling about getting drawn. LOL I'm trying to get drawn in Arizona and New Mexico. Give up on a quality unit Colorado years ago. We were 2 points from drawing unit 61 in 2007. They changed the rules and we chased for a little while then quit. One of my buddies decided to keep chasing. He has 23 points and still 1 1/2 point away.

My oldest daughter loves to hunt and wanted me to take her where we hunted in CO when she was little. I took her 2 years ago and she just loves the mountains just like I do. She just got married. Me, her and new SIL are making a plan to hunt Colorado when it makes sense for us to go. (1st rifle when we can get drawn)
 
Do you even care about anything other than yourself? If so how? And I don't care about hunting Texas. Why would I? I want to hunt wild animals here.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
And the numbers work for all of the other Western States. It is not just Federal Land that NR Hunt.
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I'm not going to argue with you. I suggested you run your idea by the DOW. The numbers are the numbers. If you can show them how the numbers work then I'm sure they will listen.
 
Deercy said:
Animals suffering? I hunted a unit last year with my boy. It's a 2 point guarantee for a muzzleloader tag. The elk talked the 1st day until 10. And the next night. After that I heard an occasional bugle. I hunted in 3rd rifle in the same area and I watched bulls breeding cows. Every bull that bugled in the actual breeding season was converged on. I've said my piece. If all you want to do is try to back me into a corner go ahead. You haven't offered one thing other than empty words. Give me an actual scenario with actual possible solutions.
Click to expand...
I didn't back anyone into a corner. The numbers don't lie and have zero emotion. If you can come up with a plan that makes the numbers work then go for it.
 
I'm not the one you need to convince. You need to convince the DOW. Why is that so hard?


The explanation they gave me was the CWP and DOW were combined. So the number is a combined number. She said they operate from the DOW side with if we bring in $5,000,000 we can spend $5,000,000. So, according to that lady the DOW is a net zero Department. They can spend what they bring in. That takes us back to the same place we were. If you're taking away revenue to have to replace the revenue.

You need to convince the DOW not me.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I'm not the one you need to convince. You need to convince the DOW. Why is that so hard?


The explanation they gave me was the CWP and DOW were combined. So the number is a combined number. She said they operate from the DOW side with if we bring in $5,000,000 we can spend $5,000,000. So, according to that lady the DOW is a net zero Department. They can spend what they bring in. That takes us back to the same place we were. If you're taking away revenue to have to replace the revenue.

You need to convince the DOW not me.
Click to expand...
I believe the last numbers I saw said CPW ran a surplus? If thats the case it won’t be very hard to figure out how much to raise resident licenses to get the budget to balance.

Colorado residents are getting dry ****** every which way from Sunday right now. You’ll have to forgive our foul mood.
 
Bluehair said:
I believe the last numbers I saw said CPW ran a surplus? If thats the case it won’t be very hard to figure out how much to raise resident licenses to get the budget to balance.

Colorado residents are getting dry ****** every which way from Sunday right now. You’ll have to forgive our foul mood.
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No worries. We're all hunters who love the outdoors and would like an opportunity to enjoy them. I probably won't be back until Fall of 2024 with daughter and SIL in tow. As hunters we need to keep up the good fight for nothing else but for our kids.

Hope y'all have a great year. If we meet, the first beers on me.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I'm not the one you need to convince. You need to convince the DOW. Why is that so hard?


The explanation they gave me was the CWP and DOW were combined. So the number is a combined number. She said they operate from the DOW side with if we bring in $5,000,000 we can spend $5,000,000. So, according to that lady the DOW is a net zero Department. They can spend what they bring in. That takes us back to the same place we were. If you're taking away revenue to have to replace the revenue.

You need to convince the DOW not me.
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I don't need to convince anyone. You brought up the numbers.
They speak for themselves, Not sure who She is? It is one agency, one Budget. there was a surplus for the past few years. We just received a Refund for all of the surplus from State Agencies, So they are fine financially. It is a false argument that Colorado will go broke without NR tag money.

So i guess you are ok if Texas takes your opportunity and gives it to NR? Tags are tags, they don't specify where you hunt.
 
I called the Headquarters. She confirmed it.

You can come to Texas and hunt on Federal land if you want to. We don’t have the Federal and the State subsidize our hunting even close to the percentage like they do in Colorado.

Your stance is everyone should subsidize your hunting and like it. That’s pretty amazing. Do you want the money sent to you directly?
 
WestTxHunter said:
I called the Headquarters. She confirmed it.

You can come to Texas and hunt on Federal land if you want to. We don’t have the Federal and the State subsidize our hunting even close to the percentage like they do in Colorado.

Your stance is everyone should subsidize your hunting and like it. That’s pretty amazing. Do you want the money sent to you directly?
Click to expand...
No chit because Federal land is less then 1 percent of your state
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Still not sure why you think you are special. All we are asking for is the same as every other Western State. So you are OK with Texas taking away your opportunity, so when we can't hunt in our backyard, we can come and hunt in yours? You will have to sit in your mom's basement and watch all of the out of state hunters park there trucks and walk around like they own the place.
Click to expand...
Has nothing to do with NRs being special. It has everything to do with YOUR CPW being addicted to NRs money. If you look at all the discussions the CPW has had about changing the numbers, they generally make the comment “must be revenue neutral”. I personally think 80/20 would be fair. That said, you have to convince the CPW to take the necessary first step: limiting all elk tags. I totally support that. Again, CPW doesnt want to do it because they would lose too much money. All that is on CO. Not NRs.
 
WestTxHunter said:
I called the Headquarters. She confirmed it.

You can come to Texas and hunt on Federal land if you want to. We don’t have the Federal and the State subsidize our hunting even close to the percentage like they do in Colorado.

Your stance is everyone should subsidize your hunting and like it. That’s pretty amazing. Do you want the money sent to you directly?
Click to expand...
Who is She? Do you have a name?
You don't get it, a tag is an opportunity, doesn't matter is it is State, Private or NF.
Not asking for anybody to subsidize anyones hunting. If you look at the numbers you will see that we are self supported.

TXHunter58, I would agree with 80/20 if it included all tags, leftovers and LO Vouchers sales.
 
The CPW has no control over who a LO voucher is transferred too. And residents don’t want to pay for vouchers for the most part. So I see no way they could be included. I have never bought a voucher.
 
txhunter58 said:
The CPW has no control over who a LO voucher is transferred too. And residents don’t want to pay for vouchers for the most part. So I see no way they could be included. I have never bought a voucher.
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The entire “outfitting” industry would collapse if vouchers were reserved only for residents.

A 60/40 voucher quota debate would be fun to watch though.
 
They seem to survive in AZ. Some of them would have to work a little harder and not have the Welfare handed to them.
With 20% of the tags going to LO it skews the entire 80/20 split.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Who is She? Do you have a name?
You don't get it, a tag is an opportunity, doesn't matter is it is State, Private or NF.
Not asking for anybody to subsidize anyones hunting. If you look at the numbers you will see that we are self supported.

TXHunter58, I would agree with 80/20 if it included all tags, leftovers and LO Vouchers sales.
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She sent me the official documents. When I get a chance I'll go thru them. Maybe because of the comment below your first.

So you're saying if you take all the money from the Federal government and NR money out of the income stream that the DOW would be making money. Just wow. Talk about not getting it.

If it's just an opportunity and doesn't matter where from then why not make all the tags the same price? I would agree with that.
 
WestTxHunter said:
She sent me the official documents. When I get a chance I'll go thru them. Maybe because of the comment below your first.

So you're saying if you take all the money from the Federal government and NR money out of the income stream that the DOW would be making money. Just wow. Talk about not getting it.

If it's just an opportunity and doesn't matter where from then why not make all the tags the same price? I would agree with that.
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I provided you the Documents with the numbers. Again who is She?

Are you saying the Texas does not get any Federal Money?

We don't have the availability to go to Walmart and buy a tag to hunt high fence and corn feeders.

Not sure how you do not see that NR tags decrease the opportunity for Residents. It does not matter if it is State, National Forrest or Private land.

We are only talking about NR Tag income. As you can see from the NUMBERS. Cutting NR Tags would not cause CPW to go broke, It would only reduce their surplus.
 
RRCowboyStar said:
I provided you the Documents with the numbers. Again who is She?

Are you saying the Texas does not get any Federal Money?

We don't have the availability to go to Walmart and buy a tag to hunt high fence and corn feeders.

Not sure how you do not see that NR tags decrease the opportunity for Residents. It does not matter if it is State, National Forrest or Private land.

We are only talking about NR Tag income. As you can see from the NUMBERS. Cutting NR Tags would not cause CPW to go broke, It would only reduce their surplus.
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I think Res should have some rights that NR don't have. Never said different. I don't understand how you don't see how increasing Res tags decreases the opportunity for NR on FEDERAL land. You're the one claiming the CDOW doesn't need Federal money. Not me.

Never hunted high fence. We don't have the luxury of having millions of acres of Federal land. The Federal money (money paid by all US tax payers) subsidises your hunting. Leases cost thousands of dollars you don't have to pay because your hunting is subsided.

OK All BLM (State Land) in CO is 100% Res tags. Not subsided by Federal or NR funds. Y'all pay whatever the DOW determines it takes to pay for it.

NF Land: tags are 100% draw on 50/50 basis. All tags are the same price.

Private Land tags: All the same price to whoever wants to pony up and pay.

That should make you very happy. Correct
 
WestTxHunter said:
I think Res should have some rights that NR don't have. Never said different. I don't understand how you don't see how increasing Res tags decreases the opportunity for NR on FEDERAL land. You're the one claiming the CDOW doesn't need Federal money. Not me.

Never hunted high fence. We don't have the luxury of having millions of acres of Federal land. The Federal money (money paid by all US tax payers) subsidises your hunting. Leases cost thousands of dollars you don't have to pay because your hunting is subsided.

OK All BLM (State Land) in CO is 100% Res tags. Not subsided by Federal or NR funds. Y'all pay whatever the DOW determines it takes to pay for it.

NF Land: tags are 100% draw on 50/50 basis. All tags are the same price.

Private Land tags: All the same price to whoever wants to pony up and pay.

That should make you very happy. Correct
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Never said Colorado doesn't need Federal Money!

I asked if Texas Receives Federal Money?

I said tags are for opportunity on all lands, Not just National Forest. Thus, reduced tags for Residents reduces opportunity for all of the Land in Colorado. Follow?

You are welcome to come and visit the National Forest all you want. Same as New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and all of the other Western States.

Sounds like you think you should have the same draw odds as a residents in all states that have National Forrest. So are you bitching to Arizona? Nevada? Utah? New Mexico? Oregon?

You brought up "Number don't lie" The numbers show that NR tag income would only reduce the surplus. Follow?
 
RRCowboyStar said:
Never said Colorado doesn't need Federal Money!

I asked if Texas Receives Federal Money?

I said tags are for opportunity on all lands, Not just National Forest. Thus, reduced tags for Residents reduces opportunity for all of the Land in Colorado. Follow?

You are welcome to come and visit the National Forest all you want. Same as New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, Utah and all of the other Western States.

Sounds like you think you should have the same draw odds as a residents in all states that have National Forrest. So are you bitching to Arizona? Nevada? Utah? New Mexico? Oregon?

You brought up "Number don't lie" The numbers show that NR tag income would only reduce the surplus. Follow?
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Texas has 2,977,950 and Colorado has 24,086,075

You want NR and Federal government to subside your hunting. Follow.

I help pay for the land but I can only visit not hunt. Correct?

Never said same draw odds. What part of Res should more rights than NR do you not understand. Follow

Federal money is from all tax payers in the US. Follow?

You absolutely refuse to believe that Federal money is not money raised by Colorado residence. Follow
 
Plug tourism dollars in to your calculations, they bring in more money in almost any Western state than hunters.

Guys without knowledge are going to argue the price differences and allocations for NRs all day.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Texas has 2,977,950 and Colorado has 24,086,075

You want NR and Federal government to subside your hunting. Follow.

I help pay for the land but I can only visit not hunt. Correct?

Never said same draw odds. What part of Res should more rights than NR do you not understand. Follow

Federal money is from all tax payers in the US. Follow?

You absolutely refuse to believe that Federal money is not money raised by Colorado residence. Follow
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Texas has 2,977,950 What?

Not sure why you think that NR Subside my hunting, again look at the numbers.

You are Correct you can visit all of the public land that you want.

The states mange hunting so you can whine to Arizona, New Mexico, Utah and all of the Western States.

I do pay Federal Taxes.

You can't seem to comprehend that Tags are for all lands. So when a NR takes a tag away from a resident it takes away the opportunity to hunt on private land, state land and National Forrest.

You should be whining in the "General Hunting" forum as you have a problem with all Western States not just Colorado.
 
Federal Land

I pay Federal Taxes too

I comprehend every bit of that.

I believe Res and NR should be able to hunt State Land, NF Land and private if they want to pony up the money.

NR opportunities are already limited and we pay 10x's what a Res pays. Spare me.

I get you want to everyone else to pay for your hunting lease so to speak. Go gig if you can get it. The interesting part is wanting almost all of it just for Res. which are only a portion of the money to pay for it. With Res already getting substantial rights over NR, it's pretty pitiful to hear you whining because it's not enough.

We're never going to agree. It's been an interesting exchange. You have a great day.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Federal Land

I pay Federal Taxes too

I comprehend every bit of that.

I believe Res and NR should be able to hunt State Land, NF Land and private if they want to pony up the money.

NR opportunities are already limited and we pay 10x's what a Res pays. Spare me.

I get you want to everyone else to pay for your hunting lease so to speak. Go gig if you can get it. The interesting part is wanting almost all of it just for Res. which are only a portion of the money to pay for it. With Res already getting substantial rights over NR, it's pretty pitiful to hear you whining because it's not enough.

We're never going to agree. It's been an interesting exchange. You have a great day.
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Trust me, you would be talking completely different if you were a resident. I grew up in Kentucky. There is plenty of the resources there for all species to be hunted by everyone. I bought a deer tag every year, and 3 turkey tags. I hunted all year for different species with no competition from anyone, because there was plenty of tags. If the resource would ever need to be regulated, like some states have already had to do, how do they do this? Check Iowa. The nonresidents have been limited. We pay more also. Not a big deal. They have something I want, and I'll do what I can to get some of it. But what kind of selfishness is there in me to say I deserve it as much as them. Not a chance. I have talked to lots of people. I love to talk, and when I meet on the trail, or in the backcountry, or trailhead I like to get the other persons version of the way things should be. I smell hypocrite in most nonresidents. I don't WANT to hunt Texas, or Pennsylvania. There is little competition from me or anyone else as nonresidents. They don't have anything I want. We obviously have something you want. If we converged on your state, your backyard, and the animal needed to be protected, you expect me to believe you would be fine with me taking your place in the line. Not being personal to you. Move here. And cringe at the stance you used to have. It's not the same.
 
WestTxHunter said:
Federal Land

I pay Federal Taxes too

I comprehend every bit of that.

I believe Res and NR should be able to hunt State Land, NF Land and private if they want to pony up the money.

NR opportunities are already limited and we pay 10x's what a Res pays. Spare me.

I get you want to everyone else to pay for your hunting lease so to speak. Go gig if you can get it. The interesting part is wanting almost all of it just for Res. which are only a portion of the money to pay for it. With Res already getting substantial rights over NR, it's pretty pitiful to hear you whining because it's not enough.

We're never going to agree. It's been an interesting exchange. You have a great day.
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Love the I pay taxes, argument. How much do you pay? Do you get any back as a refund? If that is the case how about those that pay the most get first crack at the tags?
How about state taxes in Co? Do you pay those? Do you pay fees or local taxes here? Do you volunteer locally in Co to clear roads or trails to access? Your ideas begin to fall off pretty quick. For a guy who wants it to be DIY and accessible for our kids it turns into a pocket book contest pretty quick.

Spare me the BS you wouldn’t be okay if you couldn’t shoot golden retriever sized deer in Tejas every year. So why do you think you’re entitled to hunt my backyard every year? I would never lay a claim to another states game animals
 
Deercy said:
Trust me, you would be talking completely different if you were a resident. I grew up in Kentucky. There is plenty of the resources there for all species to be hunted by everyone. I bought a deer tag every year, and 3 turkey tags. I hunted all year for different species with no competition from anyone, because there was plenty of tags. If the resource would ever need to be regulated, like some states have already had to do, how do they do this? Check Iowa. The nonresidents have been limited. We pay more also. Not a big deal. They have something I want, and I'll do what I can to get some of it. But what kind of selfishness is there in me to say I deserve it as much as them. Not a chance. I have talked to lots of people. I love to talk, and when I meet on the trail, or in the backcountry, or trailhead I like to get the other persons version of the way things should be. I smell hypocrite in most nonresidents. I don't WANT to hunt Texas, or Pennsylvania. There is little competition from me or anyone else as nonresidents. They don't have anything I want. We obviously have something you want. If we converged on your state, your backyard, and the animal needed to be protected, you expect me to believe you would be fine with me taking your place in the line. Not being personal to you. Move here. And cringe at the stance you used to have. It's not the same.
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No I wouldn't. I'm a talker. I've been told to leave by more residents than I can count. They claim it's their land. I smell entitlement all over Res hunters. We want to hunt on land that we help pay for just like you. Why is that selfish?

You don't have what I want. The Federal government pays for something I want to use. I don't care who hunts on our Federal land. If it's legal then get after it.

I've never hunted in someone's backyard in all the years I've hunted Colorado. You act like the tags are evenly split right now. Explain that one to me. You keep talking about protecting animals. Who are you protecting them from? NR hunters?

You would be wrong on that last statement. I don't feel entitled to something that someone else helps pays for.
 
WestTxHunter said:
No I wouldn't. I'm a talker. I've been told to leave by more residents than I can count. They claim it's their land. I smell entitlement all over Res hunters. We want to hunt on land that we help pay for just like you. Why is that selfish?

You don't have what I want. The Federal government pays for something I want to use. I don't care who hunts on our Federal land. If it's legal then get after it.

I've never hunted in someone's backyard in all the years I've hunted Colorado. You act like the tags are evenly split right now. Explain that one to me. You keep talking about protecting animals. Who are you protecting them from? NR hunters?

You would be wrong on that last statement. I don't feel entitled to something that someone else helps pays for.
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No one is saying that you can’t hunt federal land, where the rub comes is that NR hunters want to hunt every year at the expense of those who actually live in the area and do work to help ensure that there are still animals on the landscape. We have to admit western game animals are a limited resource. At some point there has to be an orderly way to let people hunt them right now it is the draw system, why do you feel like you should get more opportunities than those who make sure the animals are around for you to enjoy? If you feel so strongly, belly up to the bar and come spend some time and money in Co.
 
I smell hypocrite on the more residents than you can count..... and it's not about the land. Enjoy it all you want. This argument is about animals. I got told to leave my favorite elk spot this year. And I did. A group of guys from _ _ _ _ _ were hunting with an outfitter. The outfitter is now a friend. It's a small area really. Not room for two groups. One guy told me" we paid 5000 for this hunt, and I could tell he thought he had bought the right to the area. Paying more, whether it's for an outfitter or a tag, doesn't give anyone any more right. It shouldn't anyway. When I was hunting my deer tag some guys from _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ told me to leave. Screaming. Told me they had applied for x amount of years and I wasn't going to ruin their hunt. Lovely guys. I'm sure they were having the time of their lives. I left. I enjoy my time out. I work all year long for it. There might be some residents who are ugly, no group is immune. My experience is on the nonresident side.
 

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