Another slice of the hunting pie?

If I was Crow, I would be too busy hunting year round to negotiate something with the Governor.

I would just stick a copy of Herrera in my pack and hunt. Not much reason to accept less than what Herrera held.

Probably luck that not many of the tribal members seem very interested. I would've thought at least a couple rams would have been taken by now.
 
Crampy said:
If I was Crow, I would be too busy hunting year round to negotiate something with the Governor.

I would just stick a copy of Herrera in my pack and hunt. Not much reason to accept less than what Herrera held.

Probably luck that not many of the tribal members seem very interested. I would've thought at least a couple rams would have been taken by now.
Click to expand...
Who says some rams and moose haven't already been taken?

They don't report to anyone.
 
Im from Libtard-Washington State where the tribes do whatever they want wherever they want and it is a nightmare!!!! No reporting and they can shoot all of the animals they want! They have jerky businesses on the internet where they slaughter our elk and make jerky and sell it all over the world. They can hunt off of their reservations wherever and whenever they want. DO EVERYTHING IN YOUR POWER TO STOP THIS!!!!!!! IT WILL ONLY END BADLY FOR YOUR OPPORTUNITIES AND YOUR ANIMALS WILL BE DECIMATED!!! Your LE quotas will drop. They can buy licenses like everyone else if they want to hunt off the res. I really cant come close to telling you how terrible this is and what a negative impact it will be on your animals and your hunting.
 
Crampy is right, read the treaty and read the supreme court decision. the governor can GFHS the matter is settled.

I don't like it but it is what it is. sometimes a deal is a deal and you can't break it.
 
vaquero said:
from what I’ve seen in other western states, the governor better draw a hard line at NO period for off reservation hunting
Click to expand...

The Gov has no say in the matter.
It appears the tribe wants to deal with 1 person instead of the legislature or game commission.
 
This is pure “bend over backwards” BS.

The good news is most have no desire to work as hard at hunting as one would think…according to my Crow Nation buddy. The bad news is some do and will!

Zeke
 
Eastern Shoshone are dropping their support of the proposed legislation.

cowboystatedaily.com

Shoshone Tribe Changes Mind, Will Not Make Hunting Pact With Wyoming

Though at first in support of legislation underpinning an off-reservation hunting agreement with Wyoming that would define tribal members' treaty right to hunt any unoccupied lands throughout the state, the Eastern Shoshone Tribe's government on Friday sent Gov Gordon a letter withdrawing its...
cowboystatedaily.com cowboystatedaily.com
 
mulecreek said:
Eastern Shoshone are dropping their support of the proposed legislation.

cowboystatedaily.com

Shoshone Tribe Changes Mind, Will Not Make Hunting Pact With Wyoming

Though at first in support of legislation underpinning an off-reservation hunting agreement with Wyoming that would define tribal members' treaty right to hunt any unoccupied lands throughout the state, the Eastern Shoshone Tribe's government on Friday sent Gov Gordon a letter withdrawing its...
cowboystatedaily.com cowboystatedaily.com
Click to expand...
Not shocking at all.
 
Now the fight has started!
Everyone want to take what they can get and screw everyone ELSE.
Why can’t Ranchers control their own property it’s their business.
Land ownership should have the right to
Transferrable Land owner tags !!!!!!
Every other state protects property owners!!!!
 
I don't know who is advising the WY Governor on these matters, but it would be helpful if he found someone knowledgeable on tribal hunting/treaty issues...because the clowns advising him now are pretty obviously clueless.

There is a mutual benefit to state-tribal cooperation - but it will always be a non-starter to think the State will just force its rules on treaty tribes. Lots of Tribes, some even within Wyoming, will be hunting big game off reservation in Wyoming going forward.
 
idahohuntr said:
I don't know who is advising the WY Governor on these matters, but it would be helpful if he found someone knowledgeable on tribal hunting/treaty issues...because the clowns advising him now are pretty obviously clueless.

There is a mutual benefit to state-tribal cooperation - but it will always be a non-starter to think the State will just force its rules on treaty tribes. Lots of Tribes, some even within Wyoming, will be hunting big game off reservation in Wyoming going forward.
Click to expand...
In fairness the discussion of this Legislation was initiated by the Eastern Shoshone. Appears they felt it was a good idea until someone convinced them otherwise.
 
fullcry said:
Now the fight has started!
Everyone want to take what they can get and screw everyone ELSE.
Why can’t Ranchers control their own property it’s their business.
Land ownership should have the right to
Transferrable Land owner tags !!!!!!
Every other state protects property owners!!!!
Click to expand...
That is a fight you aren't going to win in Wyoming. I for one am glad!
 
mulecreek said:
In fairness the discussion of this Legislation was initiated by the Eastern Shoshone. Appears they felt it was a good idea until someone convinced them otherwise.
Click to expand...
Even if they reached an agreement, I don't believe it would have held water.

What were they going to do? Issue an MOU? That's not legally binding and further, treaties are Federal in nature. Pretty sure in most instances Federal Law trumps State Law.

I couldn't believe the E. Shoshone initiated it either, somebody got the cart in front of the horse. Whoever thought it was a good idea must have been looking at some kind of angle I didn't/can't see.
 
mulecreek said:
In fairness the discussion of this Legislation was initiated by the Eastern Shoshone. Appears they felt it was a good idea until someone convinced them otherwise.
Click to expand...
Understood. My statement was much broader than the specific legislation...there is a lot of benefit to state-tribal cooperation, and I've seen nothing but a clown show from WY officials/Gov office on working effectively with Tribes post-Hererra. Maybe they've done some good, but I've not seen it.
 
The bill was terribly flawed from the beginning. It seemed far too premature given items from the SCOTUS decision were not settled.

Honestly, given the Governors willingness to move forward at the time, makes him and his advisors look pretty rookie if you ask me. But then again, some legislative bills still alive this session are equally bad.
 
I’m not an attorney but remember the Herrera case was a very close 5-4 decision where Justice Gorusch went AWOL and sided with the liberal court. I think with the current court the decision would be the opposite in a 5-4 decision. Read Justice Alito’s dissenting opinion in the Herrera case. He cites the almost identical case of Crow Indians V. Repsis is a Wyoming District Court case which found, “In Repsis, the central issue—and the question on which the Crow Tribe sought a declaratory judgment—was whether members of the Tribe “have an unrestricted right to hunt and fish on Big Horn National Forest lands.” 866 F. Supp., at 521. The Tenth Circuit’s judgment settled that question by holding that “the Tribe and its members are subject to the game laws of Wyoming.” 73 F. 3d, at 994. In this case, Herrera asserts the same hunting right that was actually litigated and decided against his Tribe in Repsis. https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/866/520/1376074/
 
Justice Gorsuch is well known on treaty and federal indian law matters...he ruled almost exactly as expected. That said, I do agree SCOTUS is a different make-up than when Hererra was decided; however, I expect Roberts and ACB would both respect the courts volumes of prior decisions that largely uphold treaty hunting rights on public lands, off reservation...and not do a 180. The Hererra decision largely drove a stake through the heart of Ward v Race Horse and Repsis...which was what historically limited off reservation hunting in Wyoming.
 
junior said:
Well who owns the animals now? The state or the Indians? We been getting tags from the wrong folks :unsure:
?
Click to expand...
Nobody owns the animals until they're killed, they're held in trust by the State.

Hunting rights via treaty were signed before Wyoming was even a State, and also Federal Treaty rights typically trump State rights.

The only real issue now to determine is what are considered unoccupied lands in Wyoming.

The treaty rights were upheld in Hererra, the remaining question is where do they apply?
 
BuzzH said:
Nobody owns the animals until they're killed, they're held in trust by the State.

Hunting rights via treaty were signed before Wyoming was even a State, and also Federal Treaty rights typically trump State rights.

The only real issue now to determine is what are considered unoccupied lands in Wyoming.

The treaty rights were upheld in Hererra, the remaining question is where do they apply?
Click to expand...
Talk about a slippery slope and what can potential be the end to hunting as we know it today.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Talk about a slippery slope and what can potential be the end to hunting as we know it today.
Click to expand...
Meh...I don't believe that for one second.

I had a discussion with a tribal Warden from Montana about the elk hunting in Ferry Basin (tribal members only on the S/K Reservation). World class bull elk and in the past it was difficult for tribal members to draw both cow and bull tags.

Cow elk are now general, no more draw, and elk are causing damage to private there's so many. Bull tags aren't nearly as hard to draw either.

He said its because young tribal members simply do not hunt and the older folks that are, well, they're boomer aged and dying off.

I think there could be some impact to moose and sheep, but elk, deer, and pronghorn? Not a blip.

Cars will kill more than tribal hunting...
 
BuzzH said:
Nobody owns the animals until they're killed, they're held in trust by the State.

Hunting rights via treaty were signed before Wyoming was even a State, and also Federal Treaty rights typically trump State rights.

The only real issue now to determine is what are considered unoccupied lands in Wyoming.

The treaty rights were upheld in Hererra, the remaining question is where do they apply?
Click to expand...
They will apply to any public lands not put to a use inconsistent with hunting (United States v. Hicks, 587 F. Supp. 1162 (W.D. Wash. 1984)).

Basically...any public land you or I can hunt...they would be able to exercise treaty rights.

It won't be an apocalypse for hunting in Wyoming...but rest assured, it will become a more noticeable/bigger effect than folks probably realize. Just talk to hunters in limited quota units in Washington, Oregon, Idaho, etc. Hunting virtually unlimited on winter range, before state seasons, with rifles...it really takes a toll on limited quota unit trophy quality/quantity. But, at a population level, its a blip...meat hunters will not notice one bit of difference.
 
fullcry said:
That’s why Land owners in Wyoming should be allowed to transfer tags on there own
Property!!!
Click to expand...
A terrible idea. It is this type of commercialization that is ruing the hunting heritage we all enjoy. I am all for allowing a landowner to receive preferential treatment in the license system, but not in a way that allows them to profit excessively at the expense of the little guy. The problem comes in is when this automatic license draw for a landowner would then be sold off to the highest bidder. Once landowners figure out they can receive an elk, deer, or pronghorn license for free, without having to apply and be drawn, and then sell for big cash, thousand of acres of land open to hunting by permission will now become totally off limits to the average hunter. You can kiss the walk in program, many HMAs and any viable private access on public.
 
Ya Bookhead.
It won’t stop Tribal hunting on public land.
They are gonna get that either way.Public land is in trouble down the road for residents or non residents.
Some day all that will be left is private land.
 
Idbulz
It works In many other states.
Because of this program Public hunters access land that they cont get on any other way.
What business is it of yours if I sell permits to hunt my own land?
 
fullcry said:
Idbulz
It works In many other states.
Because of this program Public hunters access land that they cont get on any other way.
What business is it of yours if I sell permits to hunt my own land?
Click to expand...
It's the business of the beneficiary's of that wildlife, the residents of Wyoming.

Not too tough to comprehend.
 

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