Winter Conditions so far…

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Yikes doesn’t look good.

I agree with Founder that winter and early spring moisture is key for shrub growth. Just as important is nutritious forbs.

The combo of poor browse plus deep, crusty snow can be a deers worse nightmare. On the bright side, the critters that do survive should have lots of good food this coming spring and early summer.
 
I-80 at Creston Junction and Continental Divide. Seems to be the worse through this area.

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West of Green River where thousands of antelope migrate to winter range from as far as the Wyoming Range.

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There was a group of lopes on my way to work that have been stuck on a hill between the highway and the fence. They had 9 fawns last week. Today none of the fawns were there and I could see 2 dead adults in the snow…
 
I hope they cut tags if it seems like another repeat of 16-17" winter. Herds will need a break. Big winters always mess me up, I was about dump my deer points this year.. Looks like I will have to hold off for who knows when.. It did take more than a couple of years for deer to bounce back from the last major winter (some would say they actually never bounced back). such a bummer. May be a good year for those who get a Elk tag this year though.
 
I hope they cut tags if it seems like another repeat of 16-17" winter. Herds will need a break. Big winters always mess me up, I was about dump my deer points this year.. Looks like I will have to hold off for who knows when.. It did take more than a couple of years for deer to bounce back from the last major winter (some would say they actually never bounced back). such a bummer. May be a good year for those who get a Elk tag this year though.
I'd go hunt
 
I hope they cut tags if it seems like another repeat of 16-17" winter. Herds will need a break. Big winters always mess me up, I was about dump my deer points this year.. Looks like I will have to hold off for who knows when.. It did take more than a couple of years for deer to bounce back from the last major winter (some would say they actually never bounced back). such a bummer. May be a good year for those who get a Elk tag this year though.
I think Wyoming has bad winters every few years and has been forever. It's the way it is.

Cutting buck tags just adds more competition to the does and most importantly, fawns, next year on the winter range. There's already less feed on the winter range because of drought. The buck to doe ratio is high enough that it can afford a normal buck harvest without becoming too low. I believe it was over 40.

The feed that one buck consumes could probably feed 3 fawns. So if they save 600 bucks next fall, it could come at the cost of 1800 fawns next winter. I just don't think shooting fewer bucks after a hard winter is always the answer.
 
The feed that one buck consumes could probably feed 3 fawns. So if they save 600 bucks next fall, it could come at the cost of 1800 fawns next winter.
Brian, I agree with most of what your saying, but we both know there won't be an additional 600 bucks on the landscape. I hope that's just an arbitrary number you are using to make your point, which I don't think holds much water.
 
the good news is you can put in for montana and come shoot the $hit out of deer here.
Between getting hit by cars and the winter it’s been a tough one for the local population here.
 
Brian, I agree with most of what your saying, but we both know there won't be an additional 600 bucks on the landscape. I hope that's just an arbitrary number you are using to make your point, which I don't think holds much water.
With any tag cut, there will be additional bucks on the winter range next year that otherwise would not be there (without tag cut).
The point is, when the buck to doe ratio is over 40 and a bad winter wipes out 80% of the fawns this year, fawn survival next year becomes much more important.
Saving 1 buck this fall will send that buck to the winter range next winter where he'll consume as much feed as 3 fawns on a winter range that'll get hammered this year and may be suffering going into next year.
The 3 fawns are more important than that 1 buck when buck to doe ratio is high and the herd can afford to have fewer bucks for a year or two. Flexibilty.

I'd be surprised if the biologists think saving bucks is the most important thing when fawn recruitment will be so much more important next winter. And, when buck to doe ratio is already very inflated. I'll have to chat with Gary and see what he thinks.

If there were less bucks this year, maybe more fawns would survive. That's the down side of having a very high buck to doe ratio, bucks eat food that would have been available for the fawns.
 
With any tag cut, there will be additional bucks on the winter range next year that otherwise would not be there (without tag cut).
The point is, when the buck to doe ratio is over 40 and a bad winter wipes out 80% of the fawns this year, fawn survival next year becomes much more important.
Saving 1 buck this fall will send that buck to the winter range next winter where he'll consume as much feed as 3 fawns on a winter range that'll get hammered this year and may be suffering going into next year.
The 3 fawns are more important than that 1 buck when buck to doe ratio is high and the herd can afford to have fewer bucks for a year or two. Flexibilty.

I'd be surprised if the biologists think saving bucks is the most important thing when fawn recruitment will be so much more important next winter. And, when buck to doe ratio is already very inflated. I'll have to chat with Gary and see what he thinks.

If there were less bucks this year, maybe more fawns would survive. That's the down side of having a very high buck to doe ratio, bucks eat food that would have been available for the fawns.
There will be plenty room on the winter grounds next year…. We are not only losing fawns… you might want to venture out of the valley and see exactly what’s happening in Wyoming…. Major deer and antelope losses… not just fawns?
 
My guess is that most winter ranges will be in slightly better shape with the additional moisture received this year. Winter and early spring moisture is critical for browse species.

There will also be significantly fewer deer in some areas just due to the fact of increased roadkill and winterkill this year.

The deer certainly need some sort of break to get numbers back in line with historic numbers. From my point of view as a land manager, habitat improvement projects like controlling cheatgrass where it is dense on critical winter ranges will help mule deer out more than just about anything.
 
We drove from Lander to Casper yesterday. Not one fawn deer or lope in all groups. The closer to Casper the better.

What I am seeing from the South Central this winter kill we likely be worse than 07/08…

There is absolutely no doubt there will be massive cuts. Also likely season shortened etc.
At least for deer I hope some areas drop extra days to help protect the herds.

There is no doubt that this has moved beyond the fawns. Adults are going down as well. I really don’t think there is a lack of feed, the range in area I visit looked better than it had in a decade. Lower horse numbers and great moisture last year left a lot of the winter ranges in great shape and the deer heading into winter were also in great shape. The problem is the massive depths of snow covering that feed. Lander 10
Miles east of Shosoni there is no vegetation visible at all. Looking at pics Wamsetter to Baggs everything buried.

We lost all the fawns already on the ground, I bet we have already lost 80% of this years drops due to being aborted.

It is pretty rough…
 
It’ll be interesting to see how tag cuts in G and H play out then if that’s how it goes. I would think any significant tag cuts will have to include resident tags as well. There doesn’t seem to be enough NR tags available to cut to really make a big difference.

I’m not try to stir any resident vs NR thing that’ll have Buzz calling Sy :rolleyes: and showing us, but just thinking about what’ll be done if tag cuts are inevitable. ???
 
It’ll be interesting to see how tag cuts in G and H play out then if that’s how it goes. I would think any significant tag cuts will have to include resident tags as well. There doesn’t seem to be enough NR tags available to cut to really make a big difference.

I’m not try to stir any resident vs NR thing that’ll have Buzz calling Sy :rolleyes: and showing us, but just thinking about what’ll be done if tag cuts are inevitable. ???
If a couple hundred carry over bucks spread out over the winter range kills fawns for lack of food, the winter range is totally f&&#ed...right along with the deer herd.
 
How do you define rock bottom? Wouldn't rock bottom would be zero? ?
Sure I guess. Point is with several thousand residents hunting G and H, it just doesn't seem to make much sense to reduce the non resident quota without also cutting the number of residents in those regions.
 
If a couple hundred carry over bucks spread out over the winter range kills fawns for lack of food, the winter range is totally f&&#ed...right along with the deer herd.
Well, we’ll see then if there are tags cuts.

Are you telling me that there’s plenty of feed on the winter range? If that were the case, fawns won’t be dying this year. I don’t believe they are dying because they get stuck in the snow or freeze. They can deal with both deep snow and cold if they have plenty of food for energy. If they die it’s because they run out of food.
 
Sure I guess. Point is with several thousand residents hunting G and H, it just doesn't seem to make much sense to reduce the non resident quota without also cutting the number of residents in those regions.
Why not? It's a general area and at this point it won't turn to LQ. It's common practice statewide to cut NR region tags and shorten seasons to give ANTLERED deer a break. Overall herd numbers just need the does to survive and have good fawn crops.
 
Why not? It's a general area and at this point it won't turn to LQ. It's common practice statewide to cut NR region tags and shorten seasons to give ANTLERED deer a break. Overall herd numbers just need the does to survive and have good fawn crops.
Okay, well I guess if they drop it to even less than 600 I won't be applying for H this year.
 
Funny how every winter was like this 30 years ago and more big deer and quantity was there on the Wyoming range.
What’s that herd dropped 30,000 since 2008? Winter? Just asking?
 
Well, we’ll see then if there are tags cuts.

Are you telling me that there’s plenty of feed on the winter range? If that were the case, fawns won’t be dying this year. I don’t believe they are dying because they get stuck in the snow or freeze. They can deal with both deep snow and cold if they have plenty of food for energy. If they die it’s because they run out of food.
The winter of 2016/17 the snow was deep. This year the snow is also deep. When the snow is deep it is hard for the animals to dig up enough food. On all of the other years since 2011 the snow hasn't been as deep in the areas I frequent. The deep snow concentrates the deer into smaller areas. It is also harder to get around in the deep snow. Deep snow buries the food, does that make sense? They also spend extra energy digging up the feed. Fawns do starve and freeze to death but not near as many on easy winters.
 
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Well, we’ll see then if there are tags cuts.

Are you telling me that there’s plenty of feed on the winter range? If that were the case, fawns won’t be dying this year. I don’t believe they are dying because they get stuck in the snow or freeze. They can deal with both deep snow and cold if they have plenty of food for energy. If they die it’s because they run out of food.
There isn't a deer on winter range that puts on weight in the winter...ask Fraelick he will tell you the same thing. Ask any biologist or anyone that knows anything about wintering deer for that matter.

Plant nutritional values after they cure simply will not sustain a deer, big game are in calorie deficits probably starting in mid-fall.

They die because they run out of fat reserves. Having to dig through deep snow uses energy. Cold temperatures use fat reserves even faster. Moving between areas with deep snow use energy faster. All intuitively obvious.

That's why fawns die on years like this because they don't have the time to put on fat reserves to survive the cold and use too much energy trying to get to forage.
 
This winter and the winter of 2016/17 the snow was deep. This year the snow is also deep. When the snow is deep it is hard for the animals to dig up enough food. On all of the other years since 2011 the snow hasn't been as deep in the areas I frequent. The deep snow concentrates the deer into smaller areas. It is also harder to get around in the deep snow. Deep snow buries the food, does that make sense? They also spend extra energy digging up the feed. Fawns do starve and freeze to death but not near as many on easy winters.
What areas in Wyoming are you comparing this year to’17?
 
I agree DD, what’s your feelings on post 136? Am I missing something?
Can’t put the whole blame on bad winters that’s for sure, seen some pretty bad winters growing up and there seemed to always be more deer around!! Winter kills but it always has, so there has to be several reason of declining mule deer and we all can guess , but I don’t think anyone knows for sure. There will always be big deer out there to hunt. Gotta get a tag and put in time and hunt and get lucky ?
 
It is all about the fawns, nothing else matters nearly as much f the does are getting bred. I think you shoot more bucks in case you have back to back rough winters to get them off the winter range. Sucks for everyone for sure. Maybe the millions going to MDF should go into machines to move snow and open up freeways of feed?
 
Or they can't get to the food.
not Sure why I waste my time on this site…. Guess to see the greed of founder…. He wants to hunt G so bad every year that he disregards all truths being told about how hard this winter is hitting the deer herds all through south central, central and western Wyoming…. the fawns are gone and sadly many mature deer are going to die or already have….
when the wild horses start dying like they have, and I have pics but not posting because I sure wouldn’t want the horse lovers to get wind..they would show up with semis loaded with hay…
 
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The winter of 2016/17 the snow was deep. This year the snow is also deep. When the snow is deep it is hard for the animals to dig up enough food. On all of the other years since 2011 the snow hasn't been as deep in the areas I frequent. The deep snow concentrates the deer into smaller areas. It is also harder to get around in the deep snow. Deep snow buries the food, does that make sense? They also spend extra energy digging up the feed. Fawns do starve and freeze to death but not near as many on easy winters.
Having excess bucks competing for the same feed as those fawns is part of the problem. Say what you want, if there were currently fewer bucks on the winter range, there would be more food for fawns.

I wouldn’t assume next years winter will be an easy one. If there’s 80% fawn mortality this year, that last thing the deer need is a high buck to doe ratio again next winter with too many bucks competing for the feed that next years fawns will need.

There’s a reason why bucks are harvested every year other than for hunter fun and to eat.

You may be right and maybe G and H tags will be cut, I just don’t think it’s necessary. Didn’t need to happen in 2017 either. That’s my opinion.
 
not Sure why I waste my time on this site…. Guess to see the greed of founder…. He wants to hunt G so bad every year that he disregards all truths being told about how hard this winter is hitting the deer herds all through south central, central and western Wyoming…. the fawns are gone and sadly many mature deer are going to die or already have….
when the wild horses start dying like they have, and I have pics but not posting because I sure wouldn’t want the horse lovers to get wind..they would show up with semis loaded with hay…
No one is holding a gun to your head.

My opinion is that tag cuts may not be needed, and I’m not convinced we’ll see tag cuts in G and H without some of it coming on the resident side as well. We’ll see.
 
No one is holding a gun to your head.

My opinion is that tag cuts may not be needed, and I’m not convinced we’ll see tag cuts in G and H without some of it coming on the resident side as well. We’ll see.
How many resident tags were cut last time G and H had tag cuts? If there are NR tag cuts in G and H they should cut the % of resident tags like they did last time.

Fair is fair. Residents first.
 
It is all about the fawns, nothing else matters nearly as much f the does are getting bred. I think you shoot more bucks in case you have back to back rough winters to get them off the winter range. Sucks for everyone for sure. Maybe the millions going to MDF should go into machines to move snow and open up freeways of feed?
That’s my point. Thinking about back to back rough winters. If 80% of fawns are lost this year, we would want as many as possible to survive next year if that winter is anything but easy.
Plus there aren’t a lot of NR tags available to cut, so to make a difference I think it’d take cutting resident tags as well, which is a long shot.
 
how many deer tags does Utah issue to NR? Maybe Wyoming should match it and call it good. You Utah boys like region C?
 
How many resident tags were cut last time G and H had tag cuts? If there are NR tag cuts in G and H they should cut the % of resident tags like they did last time.

Fair is fair. Residents first.
It doesn’t matter what tags are being threatened, I’m not so sure any need to be cut with such a high buck to doe ratio coming into the winter. I think there are probably enough bucks to remain status quo for this year.
If the buck to doe ratio was 15, then I’d say tag cuts are probably a must, but not at what it is.
 
It doesn’t matter what tags are being threatened, I’m not so sure any need to be cut with such a high buck to doe ratio coming into the winter. I think there are probably enough bucks to remain status quo for this year.
If the buck to doe ratio was 15, then I’d say tag cuts are probably a must, but not at what it is.
I agree tags don’t need to be cut but why the hell did you bring up limiting residents again? The last user group to be cut should be the residents of the state. Why does it hurt you Utah guys so much that the residents can hunt OTC every year? Because thats REALLY what it’s about when an Utah guy comments on a Wyoming deer post. You and every guy in Utah don’t really care about the deer herd at the end of the day.

You keep talking about about high buck to doe ratios and all these extra bucks. Well every single non resident deer tag is a surplus tag. They only should be issued as such. And guess what, I guarantee your surplus bucks died this winter. So the fact there likely isn’t going to be any NR Surplus tag cuts should be enough to shut up every god damn guy from UT. Be happy with what you have. Because they should cut every single NR deer tag in G and H before they limit the opportunity for ONE resident hunter.

Before you reply look up how many NR tags UT gives out and how they allocate the %. With these bad winters and for the health of the herd don’t you think WY should do the same?
 
I agree tags don’t need to be cut but why the hell did you bring up limiting residents again? The last user group to be cut should be the residents of the state. Why does it hurt you Utah guys so much that the residents can hunt OTC every year? Because thats REALLY what it’s about when an Utah guy comments on a Wyoming deer post. You and every guy in Utah don’t really care about the deer herd at the end of the day.

You keep talking about about high buck to doe ratios and all these extra bucks. Well every single non resident deer tag is a surplus tag. They only should be issued as such. And guess what, I guarantee your surplus bucks died this winter. So the fact there likely isn’t going to be any NR Surplus tag cuts should be enough to shut up every god damn guy from UT. Be happy with what you have. Because they should cut every single NR deer tag in G and H before they limit the opportunity for ONE resident hunter.

Before you reply look up how many NR tags UT gives out and how they allocate the %. With these bad winters and for the health of the herd don’t you think WY should do the same?
You can argue that all NR tags should be cut before any resident tags. That’s fine. And you can feel that it’s fair and right. That’s fine. But I believe the fact is, it won’t happen. They’re not going to get rid of ALL NR tags. I believe it just affects too many outfitters, guides and even the G&F. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it’s just my opinion.
Outfitters are not going to just roll over and let their investments go to zero, and I don’t believe the game and fish or elected officials are going to let those businesses go bust by cutting all NR tags either.

So with that, I have the opinion that in order to cut tags in G and H and have any significant effect, it’ll need to include resident tags too. There’s probably room to cut some NR tags, but there aren’t that many of them to cut. That’s the only reason I mention resident tags. It has nothing to do with my state of residence, I’d have the exact opinion if I lived in Wyoming.

I’m all about opportunity and don’t like to see any opportunity lost for anyone, regardless where they live.

As far as the UT vs WY banter, that’s between you and whoever wants to do that back and forth with you. I’ll just concede, it’s just not fair. :cry:
 
You can argue that all NR tags should be cut before any resident tags. That’s fine. And you can feel that it’s fair and right. That’s fine. But I believe the fact is, it won’t happen. They’re not going to get rid of ALL NR tags. I believe it just affects too many outfitters, guides and even the G&F. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, it’s just my opinion.
Outfitters are not going to just roll over and let their investments go to zero, and I don’t believe the game and fish or elected officials are going to let those businesses go bust by cutting all NR tags either.

So with that, I have the opinion that in order to cut tags in G and H and have any significant effect, it’ll need to include resident tags too. There’s probably room to cut some NR tags, but there aren’t that many of them to cut. That’s the only reason I mention resident tags. It has nothing to do with my state of residence, I’d have the exact opinion if I lived in Wyoming.

I’m all about opportunity and don’t like to see any opportunity lost for anyone, regardless where they live.

As far as the UT vs WY banter, that’s between you and whoever wants to do that back and forth with you. I’ll just concede, it’s just not fair. :cry:
Of course they will not get rid of all the NR tags. But if it got so bad it could be a discussion and states have done it with tag allocation before. Residents first!

There are not many NR tags to cut? Compared to what? Compare number of NR G and H tags to UT NR deer quota. Just TWO areas in WY compared to the WHOLE state of UT. Looks like a lot of NR WY tags could be cut. Of course you don’t want to talk about it, because it pokes holes in any validity to your argument for NR tags.

Your opinion would change pretty quick once you were a resident. No doubt about it.
 
Has Wyoming ever limited the sale of general season deer tags to residents? If not, I doubt they start now. Maybe they would shorten seasons, as others have suggested, but I don’t think they have many options for cutting resident or nonresident tags in region G or H for reasons that have already been explained.
 
Has Wyoming ever limited the sale of general season deer tags to residents? If not, I doubt they start now. Maybe they would shorten seasons, as others have suggested, but I don’t think they have many options for cutting resident or nonresident tags in region G or H for reasons that have already been explained.
Well, they would need to make all those deer areas within regions g and h into limited quota areas, if they were wanting to limit hunting pressure of resident hunters.
 
Of course they will not get rid of all the NR tags. But if it got so bad it could be a discussion and states have done it with tag allocation before. Residents first!

There are not many NR tags to cut? Compared to what? Compare number of NR G and H tags to UT NR deer quota. Just TWO areas in WY compared to the WHOLE state of UT. Looks like a lot of NR WY tags could be cut. Of course you don’t want to talk about it, because it pokes holes in any validity to your argument for NR tags.

Your opinion would change pretty quick once you were a resident. No doubt about it.
I think G is already at about a 90/10 split. I believe they estimate nearly 5000 total hunters in G each year. Not sure on H, I’ll ask Gary.
But like I said, I’ll concede to your “it’s not fair” thing. :cry: I won’t try to debate res vs NR tags number at all. Chalk it up as a win for you.
 
I would bet money that what the WGFD will do for Region G and H is make a 3 point minimum restriction. Isn't that what they've always done in the past after a bad winter? And then leave it like that for three years, and then go back to any buck? I'm not saying that's necessarily the best thing to do, but just what they usually do in these situations.
 
No one is holding a gun to your head.

My opinion is that tag cuts may not be needed, and I’m not convinced we’ll see tag cuts in G and H without some of it coming on the resident side as well. We’ll see.
It’s going to be needed on both sides, but why do you feel so entitled that you think they should cut residents and still give non residents a tag?
all non resident tags should be cut before one resident tag is cut…
you are right no one is holding a gun to my head, but it’s entertaining too see how out of touch the mighty Utah hunters are….
 
It’s going to be needed on both sides, but why do you feel so entitled that you think they should cut residents and still give non residents a tag?
all non resident tags should be cut before one resident tag is cut…
you are right no one is holding a gun to my head, but it’s entertaining too see how out of touch the mighty Utah hunters are….

Probably just because that's not how the WGFD works. Non residents always get a percentage of the licenses. Do they not?
 
Here we go again. nobody gives a FF about the deer dying they only care about who gets to kill the 3 that survive.

As far a NR killing one of the 3 survivors that's how it will be. because your state is dependent on the NR money like a crackhead is dependent on his dealer. so whatever happens there will be NR tags issues if any resident tags are issued. get over it.
 
With any tag cut, there will be additional bucks on the winter range next year that otherwise would not be there (without tag cut).
The point is, when the buck to doe ratio is over 40 and a bad winter wipes out 80% of the fawns this year, fawn survival next year becomes much more important.
Saving 1 buck this fall will send that buck to the winter range next winter where he'll consume as much feed as 3 fawns on a winter range that'll get hammered this year and may be suffering going into next year.
The 3 fawns are more important than that 1 buck when buck to doe ratio is high and the herd can afford to have fewer bucks for a year or two. Flexibilty.

I'd be surprised if the biologists think saving bucks is the most important thing when fawn recruitment will be so much more important next winter. And, when buck to doe ratio is already very inflated. I'll have to chat with Gary and see what he thinks.

If there were less bucks this year, maybe more fawns would survive. That's the down side of having a very high buck to doe ratio, bucks eat food that would have been available for the fawns.
You've been listening to Gary Fralic too much. 40 bucks per 100 does is not even believable. They don't have a clue on how many bucks per does they have. The Grey's area success is about 2%. That is absolutely terrible.
 
It’s going to be needed on both sides, but why do you feel so entitled that you think they should cut residents and still give non residents a tag?
all non resident tags should be cut before one resident tag is cut…
you are right no one is holding a gun to my head, but it’s entertaining too see how out of touch the mighty Utah hunters are….
It’s not “entitled”, it’s common sense. None of the decision makers are going to go to zero NR tags. I’m quite certain you’ll see resident tag cuts long before NR tags go to zero. Too many outfitter businesses at stake.
I don’t think they should cut any tags. I never suggested they should.
 
You've been listening to Gary Fralic too much. 40 bucks per 100 does is not even believable. They don't have a clue on how maney bucks per does they have.
I’ll tell you what, when the state pays you to be the mule deer biologist, and put you in a helicopter to classify and count deer, then I’ll believe your opinion and not his. Until then, you’re welcome to believe he hasn’t a clue. But I’m sticking with his counts.
 
Having excess bucks competing for the same feed as those fawns is part of the problem. Say what you want, if there were currently fewer bucks on the winter range, there would be more food for fawns.

I wouldn’t assume next years winter will be an easy one. If there’s 80% fawn mortality this year, that last thing the deer need is a high buck to doe ratio again next winter with too many bucks competing for the feed that next years fawns will need.

There’s a reason why bucks are harvested every year other than for hunter fun and to eat.

You may be right and maybe G and H tags will be cut, I just don’t think it’s necessary. Didn’t need to happen in 2017 either. That’s my opinion.

I’ll tell you what, when the state pays you to be the mule deer biologist, and put you in a helicopter to classify and count deer, then I’ll believe your opinion and not his. Until then, you’re welcome to believe he hasn’t a clue. But I’m sticking with his counts.
I don't know if the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission will cut non resident tags, but it won't hurt my feelings or the deer herd if they do. In my opinion the best way hunters can help the deer herd grow, is getting serious about predator control (mtn lions, coyotes, wolves and black bears).
It's my opinion that the Muley Fanatic Foundation and The Mule deer foundation should be spending a lot of their budget on reducing predator numbers.
I'm also a big fan of the wildlife crossings, it's good to see some going up in key areas. Hopefully more to come in the future.
Good luck in the draw Brian, it's always fun seeing the videos of what big bucks you turn up. You've drawn almost every year as a Nonresident because you work hard and other people want to hunt the big deer you find, can't blame them or you for figuring out how to play the game.
 
It’s going to be needed on both sides, but why do you feel so entitled that you think they should cut residents and still give non residents a tag?
all non resident tags should be cut before one resident tag is cut…
you are right no one is holding a gun to my head, but it’s entertaining too see how out of touch the mighty Utah hunters are….
Maybe it should be 90/10?
 
Damn, this spun off the rails.

It's funny how defensive some of the Wyoming residents get when you bring up cutting tags, having to pick a region, etc. It's all about the deer herd until that comes up, then they'll be Gawd Damned if they end up even having to pick a single region to hunt. Let alone resident tag cuts. Judas, you have the run of the entire state with multiple openers. The Mule deer have been on a downward spiral across the entire west, Wyoming is no different. We have a run of a few good winters that favor the deer along with a few more bucks on the landscape, and all the youngsters panties get wet thinking it's the best the deer have ever been. What a joke. Fact is, Mule deer are hurting big time. Hunters, biologist, game managers, need to all step it up. Here we are grumbling about the percentage of nonresident tags, and how entitled Utah hunters are. Residents and nonresidents need to take a look in the mirror. Status quo ain't getting it done. Sure harsh winters come and go. Big game numbers have ebbs and flows, but the fact remains, Mule deer numbers continue trending down, and are on a slippery slope. Are we going to stand by a watch Muleys fade away. Go along with the BS Buck to doe ratios, carrying capacities, CWD? 40/100 Buck to Doe ratio doesn't mean squat if the total number of deer is a fraction of what it once was. We have banquets, foundations, $725K deer tags. Where the hell is the fences, overpasses, predator management? Pretty F'n minimal if you ask me.
 
Damn, this spun off the rails.

It's funny how defensive some of the Wyoming residents get when you bring up cutting tags, having to pick a region, etc. It's all about the deer herd until that comes up, then they'll be Gawd Damned if they end up even having to pick a single region to hunt. Let alone resident tag cuts. Judas, you have the run of the entire state with multiple openers. The Mule deer have been on a downward spiral across the entire west, Wyoming is no different. We have a run of a few good winters that favor the deer along with a few more bucks on the landscape, and all the youngsters panties get wet thinking it's the best the deer have ever been. What a joke. Fact is, Mule deer are hurting big time. Hunters, biologist, game managers, need to all step it up. Here we are grumbling about the percentage of nonresident tags, and how entitled Utah hunters are. Residents and nonresidents need to take a look in the mirror. Status quo ain't getting it done. Sure harsh winters come and go. Big game numbers have ebbs and flows, but the fact remains, Mule deer numbers continue trending down, and are on a slippery slope. Are we going to stand by a watch Muleys fade away. Go along with the BS Buck to doe ratios, carrying capacities, CWD? 40/100 Buck to Doe ratio doesn't mean squat if the total number of deer is a fraction of what it once was. We have banquets, foundations, $725K deer tags. Where the hell is the fences, overpasses, predator management? Pretty F'n minimal if you ask me.
Better sell a bunch more of those $725K deer tags if you want more overpasses or have one hell of a bake sale.

They run 2.7-6.2 million a piece...
 
Better sell a bunch more of those $725K deer tags if you want more overpasses or have one hell of a bake sale.

They run 2.7-6.2 million a piece...
That's no kidding... but a piss poor excuse. ONE single deer tag for 3/4 of a mill and states can't see the value of the Mule Deer. Hunting in general generates one hell of a revenue.
Or... I guess we can continue with that attitude of "have a hell of a bake sell".
6 million is a drop in a bucket. Meanwhile billions of our tax dollars go to BS like "Build back better" and forking over Billions of dollars to other countries. Nah... that's piss poor no matter how you want to spin it. Weak azz generation!
 
Damn, this spun off the rails.

It's funny how defensive some of the Wyoming residents get when you bring up cutting tags, having to pick a region, etc. It's all about the deer herd until that comes up, then they'll be Gawd Damned if they end up even having to pick a single region to hunt. Let alone resident tag cuts. Judas, you have the run of the entire state with multiple openers. The Mule deer have been on a downward spiral across the entire west, Wyoming is no different. We have a run of a few good winters that favor the deer along with a few more bucks on the landscape, and all the youngsters panties get wet thinking it's the best the deer have ever been. What a joke. Fact is, Mule deer are hurting big time. Hunters, biologist, game managers, need to all step it up. Here we are grumbling about the percentage of nonresident tags, and how entitled Utah hunters are. Residents and nonresidents need to take a look in the mirror. Status quo ain't getting it done. Sure harsh winters come and go. Big game numbers have ebbs and flows, but the fact remains, Mule deer numbers continue trending down, and are on a slippery slope. Are we going to stand by a watch Muleys fade away. Go along with the BS Buck to doe ratios, carrying capacities, CWD? 40/100 Buck to Doe ratio doesn't mean squat if the total number of deer is a fraction of what it once was. We have banquets, foundations, $725K deer tags. Where the hell is the fences, overpasses, predator management? Pretty F'n minimal if you ask me.
I’m all about making residents pick an area for the general tags…ridiculous allowing 3-4 openers…
we need to be doing better at dispersing hunting pressure…
I also think all limited quota tags should cost more to apply for…
how’s that for a resident…..?
 
I’m all about making residents pick an area for the general tags…ridiculous allowing 3-4 openers…
we need to be doing better at dispersing hunting pressure…
I also think all limited quota tags should cost more to apply for…
how’s that for a resident…..?
How many residents hunt more than 1 opener a year? Or better yet, how many even hunt more than 1 area and if they do, how many kill a deer when they hunt more than 1 area?

The numbers were provided at the task force by the GF and it was surprising how few Residents hunted more than one opener/area and of those that did, very few ended up killing a deer.

Before residents have to pick a region there will be zero NR tags issued.
 
How many residents hunt more than 1 opener a year? Or better yet, how many even hunt more than 1 area and if they do, how many kill a deer when they hunt more than 1 area?

The numbers were provided at the task force by the GF and it was surprising how few Residents hunted more than one opener/area and of those that did, very few ended up killing a deer.

Before residents have to pick a region there will be zero NR tags issued.
There are more than you think that jump from area to area, if they dont kill a deer in the greys or Hoback country…
maybe they don’t kill a deer maybe they just like to hunt… kudos but with the amount of hunters growing and less than desirable hunting conditions due to over crowding, why would you not want hunters to spread out and have less pressure on our declining resource?
as to the non resident issue, I’d love to see them completely cut out and charge residents more to make up for lost revenue… but we all know that’s never going to happen….

And if you don’t think many don’t jump from area to area why are you so against picking your general area?..
 
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They had a chance before this storm. Not any more
It’s rough and most of the keyboard warriors have no clue how bad it is… we usually get a warm up by now and give them a break… but there hasn’t been and they are dropping like flys… truly sad…
 
There are more than you think that jump from area to area, if they dont kill a deer in the greys or Hoback country…
maybe they don’t kill a deer maybe they just like to hunt… kudos but with the amount of hunters growing and less than desirable hunting conditions due to over crowding, why would you not want hunters to spread out and have less pressure on our declining resource?
as to the non resident issue, I’d love to see them completely cut out and charge residents more to make up for lost revenue… but we all know that’s never going to happen….

And if you don’t think many don’t jump from area to area why are you so against picking your general area?..
Time is the biggest issue and each person only has so many days to spend hunting deer is primarily why many only hunt 1 or 2 areas at most.

Other reasons: Travel expenses, being unfamiliar with other areas, having pronghorn and elk tags that interfere, lack of vacation time, other priorities, fall fishing, etc. etc.

I'm against picking a general because in any given year, most WY hunters draw and or purchase more than just a deer tag. If I draw say a really good elk tag that opens in October, that is going to determine which general area I want to hunt deer in.

Further, living in a State should come with some benefits, and one of them is being able to hunt all the general deer areas and have the ability to fit a deer hunt in when and if I have time.

There's no good reason to change it, like I said, very few hunters hunt more than 1 or 2 areas and of those that do, very few kill a deer in the other area they hunt.
 
Damn, this spun off the rails.

It's funny how defensive some of the Wyoming residents get when you bring up cutting tags, having to pick a region, etc. It's all about the deer herd until that comes up, then they'll be Gawd Damned if they end up even having to pick a single region to hunt. Let alone resident tag cuts. Judas, you have the run of the entire state with multiple openers. The Mule deer have been on a downward spiral across the entire west, Wyoming is no different. We have a run of a few good winters that favor the deer along with a few more bucks on the landscape, and all the youngsters panties get wet thinking it's the best the deer have ever been. What a joke. Fact is, Mule deer are hurting big time. Hunters, biologist, game managers, need to all step it up. Here we are grumbling about the percentage of nonresident tags, and how entitled Utah hunters are. Residents and nonresidents need to take a look in the mirror. Status quo ain't getting it done. Sure harsh winters come and go. Big game numbers have ebbs and flows, but the fact remains, Mule deer numbers continue trending down, and are on a slippery slope. Are we going to stand by a watch Muleys fade away. Go along with the BS Buck to doe ratios, carrying capacities, CWD? 40/100 Buck to Doe ratio doesn't mean squat if the total number of deer is a fraction of what it once was. We have banquets, foundations, $725K deer tags. Where the hell is the fences, overpasses, predator management? Pretty F'n minimal if you ask me.
Nice story. Glad you got that off your chest.
 
One more storm then they have to hang on until after March 15 for a warmup with highs into the 40s that will last a bit hopefully. Nothing much above freezing until then, not good. Two more rough weeks.
 
Time is the biggest issue and each person only has so many days to spend hunting deer is primarily why many only hunt 1 or 2 areas at most.

Other reasons: Travel expenses, being unfamiliar with other areas, having pronghorn and elk tags that interfere, lack of vacation time, other priorities, fall fishing, etc. etc.

I'm against picking a general because in any given year, most WY hunters draw and or purchase more than just a deer tag. If I draw say a really good elk tag that opens in October, that is going to determine which general area I want to hunt deer in.

Further, living in a State should come with some benefits, and one of them is being able to hunt all the general deer areas and have the ability to fit a deer hunt in when and if I have time.

There's no good reason to change it, like I said, very few hunters hunt more than 1 or 2 areas and of those that do, very few kill a deer in the other area they hunt.
Buzz, you don’t have to buy your general deer tag until after you know if you drew a good elk tag… so I’m not buying that story… I’m guessing you are one that hunts the greys, then maybe the towgatee opener, then go to Baggs and so on… don’t you think it would be helpful and more of a quality hunt if hunters were limited to one area? You’re going to pick the best area? So what’s your worry
 
Buzz, you don’t have to buy your general deer tag until after you know if you drew a good elk tag… so I’m not buying that story… I’m guessing you are one that hunts the greys, then maybe the towgatee opener, then go to Baggs and so on… don’t you think it would be helpful and more of a quality hunt if hunters were limited to one area? You’re going to pick the best area? So what’s your worry

This is what happened in ut now it takes 2-7 year to hunt general!
 
Buzz, you don’t have to buy your general deer tag until after you know if you drew a good elk tag… so I’m not buying that story… I’m guessing you are one that hunts the greys, then maybe the towgatee opener, then go to Baggs and so on… don’t you think it would be helpful and more of a quality hunt if hunters were limited to one area? You’re going to pick the best area? So what’s your worry
Well, you don't know chit from low grade peanut butter...I've hunted the Greys, less than 7 days since I've lived in Laramie. Rarely hunt the baggs area. Have hunted H maybe 10 days since I've lived here...over 22 years.

Have never shot a deer in either G or H...although did pass on a couple I probably shouldn't have. Glassed up a 190+ buck for a friend from Montana in H that he killed.

All that said, I like Residents having the option to jump around wherever they want for whatever reasons they want.

If you don't like it...too bad.

With Residency should come privilege and I see no valid reason to change things forcing residents to pick a region.
 
Well, you don't know chit from low grade peanut butter...I've hunted the Greys, less than 7 days since I've lived in Laramie. Rarely hunt the baggs area. Have hunted H maybe 10 days since I've lived here...over 22 years.

Have never shot a deer in either G or H...although did pass on a couple I probably shouldn't have. Glassed up a 190+ buck for a friend from Montana in H that he killed.

All that said, I like Residents having the option to jump around wherever they want for whatever reasons they want.

If you don't like it...too bad.

With Residency should come privilege and I see no valid reason to change things forcing residents to pick a region.
We’ll buzz, I’m probably much smarter than you… your probably a libtard living in Laramie…
no wonder you want everything for free…
 
Buzz, you don’t have to buy your general deer tag until after you know if you drew a good elk tag… so I’m not buying that story… I’m guessing you are one that hunts the greys, then maybe the towgatee opener, then go to Baggs and so on… don’t you think it would be helpful and more of a quality hunt if hunters were limited to one area? You’re going to pick the best area? So what’s your worry
Haha. The sad part is the data showed clearly that your position and thoughts are wrong. Residents rarely hunt more than one general region for deer. Those that do seldom kill bucks. They are typically more dedicated hard core hunters who are looking only for a specific buck of a certain quality to kill.

Take away the ability to move around and suddenly they will be taking the best buck they can in the limited units and the limited time they are suddenly faced with…

I am one of those hunters who will hunt more than one area if needed. I let some decent bucks live because I have options and as time goes on I am looking at being even more about trophy only mule deer as I figure out ways to use white tail to fill my freezer.

I can tell you this, the hunter hunting hard and passing up bucks looking for the right one in different areas of the state is not a problem at all.

I would like to know what problem you are fixing by forcing residents to pick a region?
 
I will take that bet! 10K?
Put up or shut up. 50k. We both send to founder and when it happens I’m not giving you your 50k back. 10k is chump change, let’s make it interesting. @Founder will you hold the money till I win?
 
Put up or shut up. 50k. We both send to founder and when it happens I’m not giving you your 50k back. 10k is chump change, let’s make it interesting. @Founder will you hold the money till I win?
I think I figured it out! SS is Buzz?

You cannot think you would actually win this bet? It could to take 100 years for either to change, but I bet Wyoming goes all limited in around 20 years with 90/10 implemented. Time will tell.
 
So just to be clear, the bet is $50k that Wyoming will go to “zero” nonresident tags before there will be any changes to residents meaning tag cuts, picking a region, etc. Is this correct?
 
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