7 for 190

Deercy · Mar 23, 2023

A guy I work with asked me where he could burn his 7 points and have a good chance at a 190 buck. He said with 7 points he would be disappointed if he shot anything less. I told him good luck with that. He was openly skeptical I knew anything.

Phantom Hunter · Mar 23, 2023

He is in for a big disappointment!!!

elkhunterUT · Mar 23, 2023

Guy sounds like a ?

Katoom · Mar 23, 2023

I have 4 points, and would settle for a 180 min, no need to get greedy. PM unit and lat/long. Thanks!

???

1989Cohunter · Mar 23, 2023

yeah that’s gunna be tough. Not impossible, but it’s going to be a lot of luck.

The_Coloradoboy · Mar 23, 2023

Cool story for sure

Deercy · Mar 23, 2023

Now give me 7 points and I feel good about having a good time... he told me his buddy shot a 190 off the porch. I told him to draw that area and sit on the porch. Some guys are killers. Some are dependent on luck.

Weiserbucks · Mar 23, 2023

I burned 7 points and saw 190 deer, as in 190 total mule deer in 3rd season. Probably 20-30ish little bucks.

lostinOregon · Mar 23, 2023

Points have nothing to do with a quality of deer I’m a unit

Country · Mar 23, 2023

I thought that is why we are building points in Colorado so when we use them we can go kill a 190” buck standing looking at us in the snow In the rut at 100 yards.

lostinOregon · Mar 23, 2023

That’s the dream Country. For those of us in CO every year we know the reality. 2004, that would have been true.

JBunn · Mar 23, 2023

He’s gonna have to dig one out of the woodwork

Stevo · Mar 24, 2023

I burned 24 points 2 years ago, and saw nothing close to a 190 buck. I never put a tape on my buck, but I'm guessing maybe 150-160? (In my profile pic). This was 3rd season. Maybe if he goes with an outfitter or gets access to private land in the Eastern part of the state?

SDBugler · Mar 24, 2023

Two of my sons each have 15 points. If 7 points is enough for a 190 buck, then 15 should justify a 200" buck - what unit number should I put them in for?

Honestly, I started putting them in years ago when they were kids and was waiting/planning until they graduated from college to go on a good quality hunt. Now, 15 years later, I don't know of any unit we would want to waste those points on. Luckily we have enough points in other states that we have some other guaranteed hunts to do for several years and we will just wait and see what happens in Colorado.

Colorado's deer status reminds me of the 80's when I first started hunting there before they went draw only and all the bucks were small crab claw 4-pts. Everyone thought back then that the good old days were gone forever, but Colorado did make some changes and things did turn around. Hopefully history will repeat itself.

Stevo · Mar 24, 2023

SDBugler said:
Two of my sons each have 15 points. If 7 points is enough for a 190 buck, then 15 should justify a 200" buck - what unit number should I put them in for?

Honestly, I started putting them in years ago when they were kids and was waiting/planning until they graduated from college to go on a good quality hunt. Now, 15 years later, I don't know of any unit we would want to waste those points on. Luckily we have enough points in other states that we have some other guaranteed hunts to do for several years and we will just wait and see what happens in Colorado.

Colorado's deer status reminds me of the 80's when I first started hunting there before they went draw only and all the bucks were small crab claw 4-pts. Everyone thought back then that the good old days were gone forever, but Colorado did make some changes and things did turn around. Hopefully history will repeat itself.

I honestly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any way that mule deer quality (or elk) will get better in Colorado. Sadly, it appears none of the commissioners on the CPW board are really interested in big game.

blacktailBC · Mar 24, 2023

We have a saying at work “optimism leads to depression”

I think that probably applies here.

The_Coloradoboy · Mar 24, 2023

SDBugler said:
Two of my sons each have 15 points. If 7 points is enough for a 190 buck, then 15 should justify a 200" buck - what unit number should I put them in for?

Honestly, I started putting them in years ago when they were kids and was waiting/planning until they graduated from college to go on a good quality hunt. Now, 15 years later, I don't know of any unit we would want to waste those points on. Luckily we have enough points in other states that we have some other guaranteed hunts to do for several years and we will just wait and see what happens in Colorado.

Colorado's deer status reminds me of the 80's when I first started hunting there before they went draw only and all the bucks were small crab claw 4-pts. Everyone thought back then that the good old days were gone forever, but Colorado did make some changes and things did turn around. Hopefully history will repeat itself.

Not sure if that’s necessarily true.. the biggest deer killed in my family in Eagle and Garfield county by my dad, uncles and grandpa all were killed in the 80s primarily back when you could buy a deer tag at the gas station in Eagle while you were on your annual spike bull elk hunt every fall

RRCowboyStar · Mar 24, 2023

blacktailBC said:
We have a saying at work “optimism leads to depression”

I think that probably applies here.

Our saying at work is "Key to happiness is low expectations!"

SDBugler · Mar 24, 2023

The_Coloradoboy said:
Not sure if that’s necessarily true.. the biggest deer killed in my family in Eagle and Garfield county by my dad, uncles and grandpa all were killed in the 80s primarily back when you could buy a deer tag at the gas station in Eagle while you were on your annual spike bull elk hunt every fall

So back to otc deer tags and we will all be shooting giant deer?

Angry Chair · Mar 24, 2023

lostinOregon said:
Points have nothing to do with a quality of deer I’m a unit

Depends on the state. In Oregon, definitely not. In Utah, max points certainly do make a difference in the quality of deer that can be accessed.

1989Cohunter · Mar 24, 2023

SDBugler said:
So back to otc deer tags and we will all be shooting giant deer?

I’ve also heard from guys who hunted in the 80s that the deer hunting was pretty dang good. But it was a different culture then too. I don’t think anyone would argue that it would suck if deer hunting went to otc. But I think it’s apples to oranges to compare the 80s to now. Maybe the deer quality will come back. I hope it does, but there are a lot of factors that have put us where we are. I started deer hunting in 2002 and it was great and it’s gone up and down since then. But the all around trend has been going down. This is just an observation of mine, obviously not a fact.

The_Coloradoboy · Mar 24, 2023

SDBugler said:
So back to otc deer tags and we will all be shooting giant deer?

Colorado was a lot less populated and hunted back then. I can’t go off much more than than grandpa and dad telling me their observations and experiences from hunting mule deer in this state for the last 70 something years… I only have lived to see the last of the glory days of the early 2000s. Like it was said before me, the demand and craze for deer was that, that it is now. Guys got more worked up over a branch antlered bull elk than a 180 inch deer back then from the stories I’ve heard…

JakeH · Mar 24, 2023

Deercy said:
A guy I work with asked me where he could burn his 7 points and have a good chance at a 190 buck. He said with 7 points he would be disappointed if he shot anything less. I told him good luck with that. He was openly skeptical I knew anything.

If he has to ask that question then his chances are slim to none to begin with on just about any unit without enormous luck.

Just point him to a unit and tell him if he doesn't come out with a 190+ buck he just isn't a good enough hunter. Lol

lostinOregon · Mar 25, 2023

Angry Chair said:
Depends on the state. In Oregon, definitely not. In Utah, max points certainly do make a difference in the quality of deer that can be accessed.

He was talking about CO

bighamr · Mar 25, 2023

JakeH said:
If he has to ask that question then his chances are slim to none to begin with on just about any unit without enormous luck.

Just point him to a unit and tell him if he doesn't come out with a 190+ buck he just isn't a good enough hunter. Lol

Sounds to me like he doesn’t know what a 190 buck is.

Gadjet · Mar 25, 2023

The_Coloradoboy said:
Colorado was a lot less populated and hunted back then. I can’t go off much more than than grandpa and dad telling me their observations and experiences from hunting mule deer in this state for the last 70 something years… I only have lived to see the last of the glory days of the early 2000s. Like it was said before me, the demand and craze for deer was that, that it is now. Guys got more worked up over a branch antlered bull elk than a 180 inch deer back then from the stories I’ve heard…

Branch antlered bulls were definitely a big deal in the 80s. But boy we were hell on the spikes back then!

The_Coloradoboy · Mar 26, 2023

Gadjet said:
Branch antlered bulls were definitely a big deal in the 80s. But boy we were hell on the spikes back then!

Dad and grandpa told me that if you smacked a branch antlered rag horn back then you paraded that thing around town in the back of the truck like you just won the Daytona 500 and a just put 180 inch bucks in the rafters of the garage like it was no thing

Bluehair · Mar 27, 2023

The_Coloradoboy said:
Colorado was a lot less populated and hunted back then. I can’t go off much more than than grandpa and dad telling me their observations and experiences from hunting mule deer in this state for the last 70 something years… I only have lived to see the last of the glory days of the early 2000s. Like it was said before me, the demand and craze for deer was that, that it is now. Guys got more worked up over a branch antlered bull elk than a 180 inch deer back then from the stories I’ve heard…

You can’t compare the ‘70’s and ‘80’s to today - apples and oranges. And I’m not just talking about deer and elk.

There was no internet nor magazines or fan boys. You hunted where you lived for the most part, and assumed an out of state plate was lost. The strip was a day long drive from St George with a barrel of gas in the back.

The only way anyone knew you killed a big buck was when you nailed the horns to the barn.

It’s a different world in a million ways.

accubond · Mar 27, 2023

The_Coloradoboy said:
Dad and grandpa told me that if you smacked a branch antlered rag horn back then you paraded that thing around town in the back of the truck like you just won the Daytona 500 and a just put 180 inch bucks in the rafters of the garage like it was no thing

I have heard this from so many older hunters that I just have to wonder if we "recovered" the elk herd at the cost of the deer herd? I know there are several other factors working against deer but I just don't hear folks mention the elk herd very often.

Bluehair · Mar 27, 2023

Oh, and branch antlered buuls are still a big deal in some units. Many an OTC unit suffered for the ”trophy” units.

bodhi · Mar 27, 2023

He could have max points and not be guaranteed a 190. He could also go to zero point unit and bag 190+.

Gadjet · Mar 27, 2023

Bluehair said:
You can’t compare the ‘70’s and ‘80’s to today - apples and oranges. And I’m not just talking about deer and elk.

There was no internet nor magazines or fan boys. You hunted where you lived for the most part, and assumed an out of state plate was lost. The strip was a day long drive from St George with a barrel of gas in the back.

The only way anyone knew you killed a big buck was when you nailed the horns to the barn.

It’s a different world in a million ways.

Agreed

Hawkeye · Mar 28, 2023

This thread highlights the sense of entitlement that often accompanies hunters who are sitting on many points. Guys who have invested 20+ years and thousands of dollars in applications fees sometime feel like they should expect to harvest a certain size of buck or bull. The reality is that all that you are entitled to is a tag and an opportunity to hunt. What happens after that is up to you and a series of other factors including the condition of the herds, other hunters, weather and luck!

Hawkeye

nripepi · Mar 28, 2023

Hawkeye said:
This thread highlights the sense of entitlement that often accompanies hunters who are sitting on many points. Guys who have invested 20+ years and thousands of dollars in applications fees sometime feel like they should expect to harvest a certain size of buck or bull. The reality is that all that you are entitled to is a tag and an opportunity to hunt. What happens after that is up to you and a series of other factors including the condition of the herds, other hunters, weather and luck!

Hawkeye

I think it is kind of the opposite, point banking would allow those with 20+ years that just want to hunt and not try and shoot a certain size buck that option to hunt twice instead of waiting as they are in no mans land currently and too invested. This doesn't help me any as I burned my points, but I really don't see it being that big of an issue or entitlement thing. If they have 20, they can get two 7-point tags if it ends up being a +3. I think most with 20 will hold out and wait for that special tag, this is for those that don't need the inches to have two good hunts.

RRCowboyStar · Mar 28, 2023

nripepi said:
I think it is kind of the opposite, point banking would allow those with 20+ years that just want to hunt and not try and shoot a certain size buck that option to hunt twice instead of waiting as they are in no mans land currently and too invested. This doesn't help me any as I burned my points, but I really don't see it being that big of an issue or entitlement thing. If they have 20, they can get two 7-point tags if it ends up being a +3. I think most with 20 will hold out and wait for that special tag, this is for those that don't need the inches to have two good hunts.

It was their choice to wait 20 years. They could hunt a lower point unit any time they want. Why should they get two hunts?

nripepi · Mar 28, 2023

RRCowboyStar said:
It was their choice to wait 20 years. They could hunt a lower point unit any time they want. Why should they get two hunts?

Sorry, wrong thread! Because quality has tanked because of CPW decisions

SDBugler · Mar 29, 2023

Hawkeye said:
This thread highlights the sense of entitlement that often accompanies hunters who are sitting on many points. Guys who have invested 20+ years and thousands of dollars in applications fees sometime feel like they should expect to harvest a certain size of buck or bull. The reality is that all that you are entitled to is a tag and an opportunity to hunt. What happens after that is up to you and a series of other factors including the condition of the herds, other hunters, weather and luck!

Hawkeye

I totally disagree. Number of points has nothing to do with entitlement for a certain size animal. Each person has as few or as many points for many, many different reasons - it all depends on their own individual situation. Just because some people have lots of points doesn't mean they ALL think they are entitled to a certain size animal.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my sons have 15 points because 15 years ago when they were just young teenagers I had the forethought to start putting them in for points if they ever wanted to have the chance to hunt some of the deer units. I knew they wouldn't be able to hunt for several years because of school, sports, college, etc. But we had a plan at that time that when they graduated from college and got settled into their lives a little, they would have enough points to have many more options available to select from rather than only be limited to selecting from 0, 1, 2 point units. We haven't used the Colorado deer points yet because we have been doing other hunts with their limited amount of vacation time (they are just starting their careers and don't have a lot of vacation time). Our plan was simply to have more options on where they could hunt when the time finally came - it had nothing to do with "saving points to guarantee a bigger deer".

They have 15 elk points because they want to hunt a certain unit. My dad and I have hunted unit 76 archery elk three times and I have shared with them the great experience we have had on those hunts. They want to wait until they have enough points to also get to enjoy that same "experience". It isn't about the size of bulls in unit 76 but the "experience" to get to hunt such a beautiful area and to get to experience the rutting activity like 76 has to offer. They know they aren't going to be hunting 350-400" bulls but rather average 300" bulls with a chance at 320-330". Those size bulls are available in most any unit. It has nothing to do with # of points and size of bulls.

jims · Mar 29, 2023

Super sad that Colo has turned from a B&C mecca to the pits! The CPW is the main culprit!

With that said, the eastern plains of Colo produces 190 TF bucks every year on well managed private land that takes few to 0 pref pts to draw. Unfortunately you may be in line and better get your wallet out to hunt with the best outfitters though!

bodhi · Mar 31, 2023

Hawkeye, I get where you're coming from but when you're gaining point, you're also gaining expectations. Expectations don't always meet reality. that doesn't necessarily equate to "entitlement".

In theory, the more points the unit takes to get, the more people that want a tag. The more people that want a tag is usually because the deer are larger. Sometimes it's that simple. Making it a reality and scoring on a trophy animal doesn't always work out.

The problem is not the guy with 20 points wanting to harvest a 190+ buck, it's with the CPW not managing their herds to produce that kind of buck in units that take 20 points to draw a tag.

HntHrdr · Apr 3, 2023

Dude wreaks of entitlement like others have said, points has never equated inches, in my mind it equates less competition and that allows for more of a “hunt” and less of a goat rope. I still think there are big bucks that will pop up randomly all over the state, but these later season dates, especially last year with the weather is like they are trying to ensure they don’t anymore… well maybe it will cure Cwd? Or maybe we will be the new Montana and people will freak if you shoot a 4x4

D_Hoyt · Apr 3, 2023

Snow kills big bucks, not the number of points required to draw the permit. If it's hot and dry, good luck on any unit. If it snows and pulls the deer down, easy hunting almost anywhere.

Hawkeye · Apr 3, 2023

Deer numbers and quality go up and down. If a guy wants to hunt, then put in for a unit and draw a tag. I'm sorry that Colorado deer herds are currently in the tank but that is the current reality. A change to allow point banking seems like a bad idea that will only increase the preference point log jam and result in massive point creep on lesser units. If a guy applies and draws a tag, he should lose his points and start over. That is what the rest of us have done.

With regard to the entitlement debate, it is what it is. I don't care if you call it a "sense of entitlement" or "expectations," it is the same problem. When you draw a tag, you are entitled to an opportunity to hunt an animal in a particular unit -- nothing more. I don't care if you have been putting in for 20+ years, you are not entitled to a certain size of animal or a certain type of experience. I have nearly 20 elk points in CO. This does not mean that I am entitled to a 350 or 400 bull. When I draw a tag in the next year or two, I fully expect to lose my points and start of again. When I draw that tag, I will make the most of it and have a great time hunting regardless of whether I take a trophy animal.

I understand that not everyone feels this way, but the sense of entitlement from high point holders in many western states is a major problem and an obstacle to states making sound conservation and management decisions.

Hawkeye