Wyoming antelope

LIK2HNT

LIK2HNT

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Anyone with knowledge have any idea how many years it will take for the antelope population (quality and quantity) to rebound in the south west corner of the state? Given Mother Nature gives the antelope a break and give easy winters and no drought.
 
3-5 years with mild winters, good moisture, and reduced tags during that time.

If the GF and weather don't cooperate, maybe never.

I keep hearing it won't take pronghorn long to recover, but look at the tag numbers from the mid 90's to mid 2000's.

I think there's some areas they never will bounce back to what they were.

@jm77 and I were talking about this just a couple days ago. He has lived here longer and seen more than I have...
 
Take a look at the shape of the browse species. They are a great indicator of what shape the deer and antelope are in in any given area. I’m not sure how many times I have to say it but healthy does = healthy fawns = increase in big game numbers.

Next time you wander around the Wyo prairie and winter ranges take a close look at the shrub species and notice if they have been clubbed down to the bone or if they have fresh long leader growth. If there is no leader growth there is definitely a problem!

Drought has lingered on and hasn’t given habitat a chance to recover. Some may not realize it but competitive invasive weeds like cheatgrass rob even more early spring moisture creating an even worse prolonged drought induced state.

There is no wonder tags have been cut so severely in the Eastern 1/3 of Wyo and elsewhere. From Cheyenne north to Gillette is a mess! The cheatgrass is downright horrible in most of this area. Mark my word, deer and antelope numbers won’t increase until habitat improves!
 
My son has a lot of antelope points. I was trying to figure out if he should hold out, or if I should research to find a different unit that faired well this winter.
Thanks for the inputs.
 
BuzzH said:
3-5 years with mild winters, good moisture, and reduced tags during that time.

If the GF and weather don't cooperate, maybe never.

I keep hearing it won't take pronghorn long to recover, but look at the tag numbers from the mid 90's to mid 2000's.

I think there's some areas they never will bounce back to what they were.

@jm77 and I were talking about this just a couple days ago. He has lived here longer and seen more than I have...
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I think that we need to pay close attention to the numbers and the management. We can’t control
Natural factors, but we can control mangment.

I think in the last many game and fish departments got away with things, because people forget what it was like and what the potential is…
 
I'm at Max points guys, was thinking this year I'd pull the trigger on 58 maybe 57. I'm bummed, health stuff has got me thinking I need to hunt soon. I would appreciate from those in the know your thoughts. Pm if you prefer. Thanks Jim
 
The big turning point in my opinion was when they decided everyone could get 4 doe and 2 buck tags that's when everything started going downhill and fast. Used to be leftover buck and doe tags in allot of areas until then. Hasn't been the same since
 
Servehim said:
I'm at Max points guys, was thinking this year I'd pull the trigger on 58 maybe 57. I'm bummed, health stuff has got me thinking I need to hunt soon. I would appreciate from those in the know your thoughts. Pm if you prefer. Thanks Jim
Click to expand...
57/58 were hammered. Look at the tag allocations being proposed, and many people think they should go further…

They are only offering 50 tags total in one unit. A guy used to be able to sit and camp and see 20 bucks. Sorry but I would feel it will be a real roll of the dice… it is hard to know what will be left, what the age structure will look like and what the buck to doe ratios end up like. Both those units tended to have an older age class of bucks. As a result the bucks might have been even more susceptible to the winter… I would suggest watching the season setting for Baggs, and the Zoom meeting with the Governor. Both will give you perspective on the situation.

If I was sitting at max points I don’t know that I would gamble with them if your goal is to harvest a large mature buck I would be holding out and seeing what things look like next year…
 
It’s going to take 4-5 years for the antelope to hopefully bounce back and that’s with high hopes of mild winters, and good moisture, unfortunately this is a bad year to waste points in the cowboy state, we have a long road to recovery.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
I'm thinking it will be a good year to get into some of the units you may be a point or so behind in. That's my plan. I guess I will see how it pans out.
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Tag cuts are gonna send things through the roof. Yes the demand might go down a bit from people who follow things, but the supply (tag numbers) is gonna drop a bunch so the odds will get way way worse. The real problem is in 3-4 years when the numbers are coming back and they decide to shoot the hell out of them again and there’s two entire years of no age structure from lost fawns this winter and aborted fawns this spring. That’s when it’ll really hurt and that’s about when most people forget about a bad winter.
 
Either wait or get as close to Laramie as you can, that area seemed to fair the best and has been clear of snow for a while now. But there is so much private, I would wait.
 
On a positive note, it takes 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years to produce B&C antelope bucks. With great conditions and habitat it doesn’t take long for bucks to return. With antelope numbers and habitat in most areas already in the toilet it make take years for things to change…if ever.

If there are several years with decent moisture and habitat responds to great moisture the process could be speeded up.
 
jims said:
On a positive note, it takes 2 1/2 to 3 1/2 years to produce B&C antelope bucks. With great conditions and habitat it doesn’t take long for bucks to return. With antelope numbers and habitat in most areas already in the toilet it make take years for things to change…if ever.

If there are several years with decent moisture and habitat responds to great moisture the process could be speeded up.
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I can tell you now I'm gonna be a constant voice for keeping tag numbers low for the next few years at least, draw odds won't be good
 
Next couple weeks weather looks good, it might be over finally, the valleys and the red desert will be free from snow other than the drifts very soon at least, but they had a really rough 5 1/2 months this year out there.
 
wweaver79 said:
Next couple weeks weather looks good, it might be over finally, the valleys and the red desert will be free from snow other than the drifts very soon at least, but they had a really rough 5 1/2 months this year out there.
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That's when we'll really know what happened. Be able to see how many critters are under the snow when it melts
 
Bookhead said:
That's when we'll really know what happened. Be able to see how many critters are under the snow when it melts
Click to expand...
Yeah just getting into these areas is not very possible… what we can see from the areas we can access is really bad looking…
 
elks96 said:
57/58 were hammered. Look at the tag allocations being proposed, and many people think they should go further…

They are only offering 50 tags total in one unit. A guy used to be able to sit and camp and see 20 bucks. Sorry but I would feel it will be a real roll of the dice… it is hard to know what will be left, what the age structure will look like and what the buck to doe ratios end up like. Both those units tended to have an older age class of bucks. As a result the bucks might have been even more susceptible to the winter… I would suggest watching the season setting for Baggs, and the Zoom meeting with the Governor. Both will give you perspective on the situation.

If I was sitting at max points I don’t know that I would gamble with them if your goal is to harvest a large mature buck I would be holding out and seeing what things look like next year…
Click to expand...
The western 1/2 of area 58 did not get it as bad as everything else around it.
 
Took a drive on I-80 from RS to Wamsutter just to have a look. You can actually see brush above the snow! And we saw some live antelope! Unfortunately, we also counted over 35 dead big game; elk and antelope.
 
A few winters ago was the same deep snow in a localized are along I80 near Rawlins. My buddies and I had tags that year. My guess is that around 2/3 of the antelope winter killed. It took a lot more time for us to find decent bucks but all of us got bucks in the 76 to 80” range.

Most of the bucks we saw were young 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year olds that survived the winter. The younger bucks had great mass but short horned. We hardly saw any bucks older than 2 1/2. It’s been a couple winters since that winterkill episode and numbers have never recovered from that decline but there have been a few awesome bucks available the past year or so.

My guess is most of the older age class bucks are likely dead in areas with deep snow. There have been a fraction of antelope across Wyo going into this winter. Now add onto that scenario the fact there is super bad winterkill in central to western Wyo. You may have to hunt super hard to find the few older age bucks that exist and survived this winter. You’ll have to search even more country to find an 80+” buck even in the top units.
 
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Bookhead said:
The big turning point in my opinion was when they decided everyone could get 4 doe and 2 buck tags that's when everything started going downhill and fast. Used to be leftover buck and doe tags in allot of areas until then. Hasn't been the same since
Click to expand...
Yep. I was in 63 a year or so after they started that and there were people hauling truckloads of antelope out, mostly does. No way the resource can sustain that.
 
jims said:
A few winters ago was the same deep snow in a localized are along I80 near Rawlins. My buddies and I had tags that year. My guess is that around 2/3 of the antelope winter killed. It took a lot more time for us to find decent bucks but all of us got bucks in the 76 to 80” range.

Most of the bucks we saw were young 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year olds that survived the winter. The younger bucks had great mass but short horned. We hardly saw any bucks older than 2 1/2. It’s been a couple winters since that winterkill episode and numbers have never recovered from that decline but there have been a few awesome bucks available the past year or so.

My guess is most of the older age class bucks are likely dead in areas with deep snow. There have been a fraction of antelope across Wyo going into this winter. Now add onto that scenario the fact there is super bad winterkill in central to western Wyo. You may have to hunt super hard to find the few older age bucks that exist and survived this winter. You’ll have to search even more country to find an 80+” buck even in the top units.
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A 1.5 year old buck that survived a bad winter was a fawn that made it through. If 2/3 of the total pronghorn died, most of the bucks you were seeing wouldn't be 1.5 years old. The fawns typically don't make a hard winter like that.

Something isn't making sense with your observations...
 
Ok you are absolutely right buzz! I’m not sure what I was thinking.

They were almost entirely 2 1/2 year old bucks. Not hardly any bucks over or under that age with all having horns less than 13”. It will be interesting to see if that same thing is true. Should be able to know as soon as the drifts are passable.
 
What tools does the Game and Fish have to do massive habitat improvements. All I see is them due is talk and study, talk and study. How many acres has the Game and Fish actually improved say over the last 50 years?
 
jims said:
Ok you are absolutely right buzz! I’m not sure what I was thinking.

They were almost entirely 2 1/2 year old bucks. Not hardly any bucks over or under that age with all having horns less than 13”. It will be interesting to see if that same thing is true. Should be able to know as soon as the drifts are passable.
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How is it you can ascertain the age of an antelope?
 
BenHuntn said:
What tools does the Game and Fish have to do massive habitat improvements. All I see is them due is talk and study, talk and study. How many acres has the Game and Fish actually improved say over the last 50 years?
Click to expand...
I know here by my house we have done massive timber cuts, they are currently doing large scale
Weed spraying and massive cheat grass
Projects.
 
elks96 said:
I know here by my house we have done massive timber cuts, they are currently doing large scale
Weed spraying and massive cheat grass
Projects.
Click to expand...
In most cases, the habitat improvements I've seen in central Wyoming benefit elk more than any other species.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
I'm thinking it will be a good year to get into some of the units you may be a point or so behind in. That's my plan. I guess I will see how it pans out.
Click to expand...
I think the exact opposite will happen. Those that have researched the winter kill and want to hunt will apply where it wasn't bad- increasing point creep in those areas. Those that didn't research will apply blindly so point creep, because of massive reductions, will be bad in those areas as well. It is just all in all a terrible year to apply but it isn't going to get any better for a few years.
 
jm77 said:
In most cases, the habitat improvements I've seen in central Wyoming benefit elk more than any other species.
Click to expand...
Possible. In the short term a lot of treatment will likely benefit elk as the first species to really increase are the perennial grasses and smaller things, but as time move on and natural succession occurs the treatments should definitely help and favor deer.

I know in Colorado Unit 22 as part of the Collaring projects we had there for almost 20 years. When we first did a habitat treatment, the deer did not use them, and elk were almost the exclusive users of those projects until year 3… From years 3-10 the deer really hammered and like the growth. At year 10, the use of the treated areas started to decrease. At some point around year 20-25 the use of the habitat treatment areas should match that of the untreated…

On the flip side, spraying large scale chest grass and other invasive weeds helps everything…
 
I can tell you straight up from first-hand, large scale cheatgrass treatments that the quality and quantity of browse preferred by deer is dramatically increased where cheatgrass is controlled.

I was just at a large property today with critical winter range we sprayed cheatgrass 3 to 6 years ago where I saw groups of does and nearly every doe had a fawn in great condition standing next to her. We didn’t have as bad of a winter as Wyo but had snow and cold all winter.

We have game cameras set up monitoring mule deer preference for cheatgrass infested vs adjacent cheatgrass controlled areas for over 2 years. Guess which side they spend time? It’s in the works to get this published soon.

We’ve been also monitoring game cams on another property with both mule deer and elk. Same preference for both species.
 
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wytex said:
Live animals? That would be a best guess based on body size and maybe some other traits.
Once dead just look at those front teeth for up to 4 1/2 yr age in the field.
Click to expand...
Agreed. @jims has superhero skills and can age them through his binos.
 
Take a look at my post #28.

A 2 1/2 yr old antelope is like a small bodied forked horn muley buck or spike elk….pretty darn easy to age. You are absolutely right that it’s nearly impossible to age antelope bucks over 2 1/2 on the hoof without looking at the teeth.
 
kinda off subject but still inline with the topic i find it amazing how the antelope in Yellowstone Park survive with the amount of snow they get. They must migrate to an area in the park that gives them a good food source.
 
nfh said:
kinda off subject but still inline with the topic i find it amazing how the antelope in Yellowstone Park survive with the amount of snow they get. They must migrate to an area in the park that gives them a good food source.
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dc84bbe9-fc95-4fc5-b56b-222d69f31c90-original.jpg
 

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