Bucks!Bucks!Bucks!

And you guys always b!tching about guys wearing flattys, check out those hats those guys are wearing at the first of the video. The original flatty wearing utards now we know where it all started. ? ? ?
 
This video looks like one made by a guy named Jim Bond. He was a film maker like Gordon Eastman and would go around renting high school auditoriums, show his film and narrate it. He made several and I enjoyed them a bunch as a teenager. I use to have some of his books as well. He made a really good one on elk.
 
The video is from the old time era, not what we are use to watching for sure. I thought the information was good. Those old timers could beat the shyt out of 95% of the Tards these days though.
 
Thanks. That was a pretty good video
Alot of the range conditions of today resemble the poor range conditions he was showing and talking about. Really makes you wonder what could be done to help the struggling deer herds.
 
It is kind of humorous, we have one thread going right now about tag cuts, one going about too many elk and one that, we'll I can't remember what the main topic was but it just disappeared on Sunday night while I watched a movie with my wife.
And here we have one thread that is giving some informative information and it only has a dozen comments.
 
notdonhunting said:
It is kind of humorous, we have one thread going right now about tag cuts, one going about too many elk and one that, we'll I can't remember what the main topic was but it just disappeared on Sunday night while I watched a movie with my wife.
And here we have one thread that is giving some informative information and it only has a dozen comments.
Click to expand...
It is interesting….information and understanding of the past is usually a good thing.
 
I Got A Question For The KING?

Whens The Last Year When More than 10 Bucks 42" Wide Or Wider were taken in one Year?
 
elkassassin said:
I Got A Question For The KING?

Whens The Last Year When More than 10 Bucks 42" Wide Or Wider were taken in one Year?
Click to expand...

You actually think they managed for that?

As kin to the largest sheep production company in the west during the time of this video, you'd be not just wrong, but horrifically wrong.

It's what is laughable with the "quality" posts.

Here's how management went, as I still hunt with one time herders. Poison, shoot, burn, stomp, run over, anything g with teeth. Bears, coyotes, foxes, cats.

Get 3-4 dozers with anchor chains between them and chain off as many acres of juniper as you can drive on.

If deer get on the farm, shoot the does with.22 at night.

That was management of the landscape then.

Created some good deer conditions, obviously.

Let's see anyone get that management reintroduced?

Btw, it's not a flatty if it's cocked to the side
 
Pay Attention hossy!

I'm Actually Sayin & Have Been Saying for 50+ F'N Years This State Can & Will Produce Quality Animals!

Managed Like It's Been Managed Lately?

Notta!

You Could See More Deer In One Day Back In The Day Than You Can See All F'N Year Now!

Bring It On!

hossblur said:
You actually think they managed for that?

As kin to the largest sheep production company in the west during the time of this video, you'd be not just wrong, but horrifically wrong.

It's what is laughable with the "quality" posts.

Here's how management went, as I still hunt with one time herders. Poison, shoot, burn, stomp, run over, anything g with teeth. Bears, coyotes, foxes, cats.

Get 3-4 dozers with anchor chains between them and chain off as many acres of juniper as you can drive on.

If deer get on the farm, shoot the does with.22 at night.

That was management of the landscape then.

Created some good deer conditions, obviously.

Let's see anyone get that management reintroduced?

Btw, it's not a flatty if it's cocked to the side
Click to expand...
 
One More Thing hossy?

How Many 42" Bucks Do You Think Were Taken In The Whole F'N State Last Year?

Since The KING Won't Bite I'm Waiting For Your BS Answer/Excuse!
 
elkassassin said:
Pay Attention hossy!

I'm Actually Sayin & Have Been Saying for 50+ F'N Years This State Can & Will Produce Quality Animals!

Managed Like It's Been Managed Lately?

Notta!

You Could See More Deer In One Day Back In The Day Than You Can See All F'N Year Now!

Bring It On!
Click to expand...


Pay attention Bess.

The reason that happened had NOTHING to do with the DWR.

They didn't create it. They haven't destroyed it.

That's the point.

There will NEVER be a time that we eradicate predators, ever again. We will never chain off land. AND, we won't not farm alfalfa, allowing for sage growth, and the water it swallows. We will never bulldoze the foothill houses, nor I-15 or 84, or sr89 or 40.

We will NEVER not have CWMU swallowing 1/4 of the state. We will never not have LE units. And to be fair, we will never not have elk.

Except for elk, NONE of those things are a result of DWR management.
 
Hossblur you just mentioned just about everything that is or has been hampering our deer herds there's a few other things but you pretty well hit everything on the head
 
Well hossy!

You Got A Start on the 50+ Reasons Why That I've Talked about for Decades!

Keep Typing!

You'll Eventually Get There!

I'm Gonna Ask One More F'N Time & I Do Expect An Answer:

How Many 42" Bucks Do You Think Were Taken In The Whole F'N State Last Year?



hossblur said:
Pay attention Bess.

The reason that happened had NOTHING to do with the DWR.

They didn't create it. They haven't destroyed it.

That's the point.

There will NEVER be a time that we eradicate predators, ever again. We will never chain off land. AND, we won't not farm alfalfa, allowing for sage growth, and the water it swallows. We will never bulldoze the foothill houses, nor I-15 or 84, or sr89 or 40.

We will NEVER not have CWMU swallowing 1/4 of the state. We will never not have LE units. And to be fair, we will never not have elk.

Except for elk, NONE of those things are a result of DWR management.
Click to expand...
 
And I Guess I Better SPLAIN It To You:

I'm Not Talkin a GROSS Score!

I'm Talkin A Buck With Antlers The Make Or Break The 42" Width Mark!

I Can't Wait For Your BS Excuse On This One!
 
elkassassin said:
Well hossy!

You Got A Start on the 50+ Reasons Why That I've Talked about for Decades!

Keep Typing!

You'll Eventually Get There!

I'm Gonna Ask One More F'N Time & I Do Expect An Answer:

How Many 42" Bucks Do You Think Were Taken In The Whole F'N State Last Year?
Click to expand...


Don't know, 1 maybe.

How many 400" bulls got taken back then?
 
It Was Long Before Banner Days Of The Mule Deer Herd!

But Don't Think For A F'N Second there Wasn't Some Big Bulls Taken in the Late 1800's/Early 1900's!
 
elkassassin said:
It Was Long Before Banner Days Of The Mule Deer Herd!

But Don't Think For A F'N Second there Wasn't Some Big Bulls Taken in the Late 1800's/Early 1900's!
Click to expand...

Come on.

Hell I know of 2 390+ bulls taken last year that no one knows about.

Not even close.

You hunted San Juan, are you gonna try and day there was the equivalent back then? Seriously?
 
I was hoping we could have one thread about muley deer and not hear about 50+ reasons.
I hate to break it to you, bess there is not 50+ reasons. I do belive this video hits on most of the reasons.
42 plus inches I would say there was zero taken last year, but that has nothing to do with deer numbers, so it really means about as much as 25 + of your reasons.
 
People That Can Not Easily See 50+ Reasons Are Mighty Blind!

Sorry notdon!

What It Is, Most People Don't Wanna Admit it!

They're Afraid It/The Truth Might Cut In To Their Opportunity!

And We Know hossy & The KING Wouldn't Like That!





notdonhunting said:
I was hoping we could have one thread about muley deer and not hear about 50+ reasons.
I hate to break it to you, bess there is not 50+ reasons. I do belive this video hits on most of the reasons.
42 plus inches I would say there was zero taken last year, but that has nothing to do with deer numbers, so it really means about as much as 25 + of your reasons.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
People That Can Not Easily See 50+ Reasons Are Mighty Blind!

Sorry notdon!

What It Is, Most People Don't Wanna Admit it!

They're Afraid It/The Truth Might Cut In To Their Opportunity!

And We Know hossy & The KING Wouldn't Like That!
Click to expand...

Anxiously awaiting that video this month.
 

"Finally in 1951, after at least five years of significantly overpopulated herds of mule deer throughout most of Utah, the Utah legislature repealed the 1914 ‘buck only’ law and hunters were allowed to harvest ‘either-sex’ on their deer hunting permit. Tangential to the initiation of either-sex or hunter choice hunting, the Department of Fish and Game began an aggressive harvest program designed specifically to decrease herd sizes, including the establishment of two deer permits, pre-season hunts, postseason hunts, extended hunts, conditional hunts, and others.Deer were plentiful everywhere, so to attract hunters, areas distan t from human population centers had fewer restrictions and more opportunities than areas along the Wasatch Front where hunter pressure was higher. For a few years around 1960, a hunter could have legally harvested up to 11 deer during a single season in Utah. Either-sex hunting opportunity continued on most units through 1972"
 
middlefork said:

"Finally in 1951, after at least five years of significantly overpopulated herds of mule deer throughout most of Utah, the Utah legislature repealed the 1914 ‘buck only’ law and hunters were allowed to harvest ‘either-sex’ on their deer hunting permit. Tangential to the initiation of either-sex or hunter choice hunting, the Department of Fish and Game began an aggressive harvest program designed specifically to decrease herd sizes, including the establishment of two deer permits, pre-season hunts, postseason hunts, extended hunts, conditional hunts, and others.Deer were plentiful everywhere, so to attract hunters, areas distan t from human population centers had fewer restrictions and more opportunities than areas along the Wasatch Front where hunter pressure was higher. For a few years around 1960, a hunter could have legally harvested up to 11 deer during a single season in Utah. Either-sex hunting opportunity continued on most units through 1972"
Click to expand...
That’s true. Yet, due to the philosophy of providing “Maximum Recreation Opportunity” it took the Legislature to force the F&G Dept to change to “Buck Only” tags in 1972. Status quo is a hard nut to crack, regardless of the day or the age.
 
2lumpy said:
That’s true. Yet, due to the philosophy of providing “Maximum Recreation Opportunity” it took the Legislature to force the F&G Dept to change to “Buck Only” tags in 1972. Status quo is a hard nut to crack, regardless of the day or the age.
Click to expand...
Did you miss this part?

"Finally in 1951, after at least five years of significantly overpopulated herds of mule deer throughout most of Utah, the Utah legislature repealed the 1914 ‘buck only tags"
 
middlefork said:
Did you miss this part?

"Finally in 1951, after at least five years of significantly overpopulated herds of mule deer throughout most of Utah, the Utah legislature repealed the 1914 ‘buck only tags"
Click to expand...
Actually I did not. Good for them and their integrity. Probably means the rest of the documentary is accurate too.
 
elkassassin said:
One More Thing hossy?

How Many 42" Bucks Do You Think Were Taken In The Whole F'N State Last Year?

Since The KING Won't Bite I'm Waiting For Your BS Answer/Excuse!
Click to expand...
I'll bite. Why are you so hung up on 42" wide bucks? That's got to be over a 1: 100,000 at best with that type of genetics. Probably just as good of a chance Killin a 300"+ buck over a 42" wide buck. No wonder you'll never be happy with Utah's management. They are having a hard time growing those type of bucks on the oak creek, pauns. and henries combined, even with very, very limited tags.
 
ridgetops said:
I'll bite. Why are you so hung up on 42" wide bucks? That's got to be over a 1: 100,000 at best with that type of genetics. Probably just as good of a chance Killin a 300"+ buck over a 42" wide buck. No wonder you'll never be happy with Utah's management. They are having a hard time growing those type of bucks on the oak creek, pauns. and henries combined, even with very, very limited tags.
Click to expand...


I doubt he's ever seen a 42" on the hoof.

I believe I saw one that pushed 40" in my entire life, and that was AI before tags.

But if you live in a fantasy, might as well live it out.

Notice he didn't answer the elk question. Cuz doing so means the same biologists he rails on, know how to do things
 
Pay Attention RidgeTops!

Never Said I Was Hung Up On Them!

Watch The Damn Video From Yesteryear!

And Don't Bring Your PISSCUTTER 36" Yardstick!

And hossy Thinks There Was a 42"ER Taken Last Year!

In His Fantasy Mind Maybe!

If Most Modern Day DRAT's Ever Saw A 40"ER They'd Be Screaming,Missing & Claiming 50"s After If Run Off!









ridgetops said:
I'll bite. Why are you so hung up on 42" wide bucks? That's got to be over a 1: 100,000 at best with that type of genetics. Probably just as good of a chance Killin a 300"+ buck over a 42" wide buck. No wonder you'll never be happy with Utah's management. They are having a hard time growing those type of bucks on the oak creek, pauns. and henries combined, even with very, very limited tags.
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Pay Attention RidgeTops!

Never Said I Was Hung Up On Them!

Watch The Damn Video From Yesteryear!

And Don't Bring Your PISSCUTTER 36" Yardstick!

And hossy Thinks There Was a 42"ER Taken Last Year!

In His Fantasy Mind Maybe!

If Most Modern Day DRAT's Ever Saw A 40"ER They'd Be Screaming,Missing & Claiming 50"s After If Run Off!
Click to expand...
I think you are deep in a 40oz DEW
 
elkassassin said:
Pay Attention RidgeTops!

Never Said I Was Hung Up On Them!

Watch The Damn Video From Yesteryear!

And Don't Bring Your PISSCUTTER 36" Yardstick!

And hossy Thinks There Was a 42"ER Taken Last Year!

In His Fantasy Mind Maybe!

If Most Modern Day DRAT's Ever Saw A 40"ER They'd Be Screaming,Missing & Claiming 50"s After If Run Off!
Click to expand...
So a 36"er is now a piss cutter? How can people ever take you seriously with your extremely high standards.
 
Let’s take a Utah unit and experimentally try and re-create conditions that would lead to a buck problem like this.
 
elkassassin said:
Pay Attention RidgeTops!

Never Said I Was Hung Up On Them!

Watch The Damn Video From Yesteryear!

And Don't Bring Your PISSCUTTER 36" Yardstick!

And hossy Thinks There Was a 42"ER Taken Last Year!

In His Fantasy Mind Maybe!

If Most Modern Day DRAT's Ever Saw A 40"ER They'd Be Screaming,Missing & Claiming 50"s After If Run Off!
Click to expand...
I know you didn't say your hung up on 40"+ bucks. I did?. The thing is, wide bucks meant everything to most hunters back 50+ years ago. Very few had any interest in what a buck scored. There's a very good chance many of those 42"+ bucks brought in for the contest were taken illegally or illegal by today's standards. I'm pretty sure if there was a contest this year that paid out 100k for every buck over 40" and pretty much anything goes in getting it by Christmas time. We would see a few of those 42"ers that you don't think exist.
 
BeDawg said:
Let’s take an Utah unit and experimentally try and re-create conditions that would lead to a buck problem like this.
Click to expand...
Folks don’t want to re-create those conditions.

If, and it’s a big if, they wanted different condition….. rather than the current conditions, it would be for more yearling bucks, but most don’t want either. They want to hunt, over any thing, now or in the future, they want a deer tag and the opportunity to take a buck………so that, if by any chance, they should see one, they’d have a tag to hang on it. What’s more…… they want nothing more or less for their son’s and daughter’s. for as long as the bucks last…… because buck don’t have fawns and you can’t stock pile bucks.

It’a a self fulfilling philosophy.
 
Ridgetops your spot on about the good old days I can remember hunting in the mid fifties and sixties as a little kid with my dad grandad and uncles (they are all resting in peace now) we had a big deer camp every year with as many as 10 to 15 shooters in camp us little guy were always pushers when we made a big drive anything that came out and was wearing headgear was fair game..I also remember making a few trips to the big city to enter a big buck in one of the contest that was so popular back then..I'd be willing to bet that 80 to 90% of the hunters back then didn't know anything about Boone and Crockett scoring most of the talk in camp was about killing a 40 inch or better buck to win one of the contest..yep things have changed that is for sure and we will never see those days again and that's for sure..and I don't really miss those days..I started scouting and hunting alone in 1968 after I got home from the military and I've enjoyed chasing big bucks by myself for many years.. some of them big boys are still out there even in our general units..just have to work a little harder to find them...
 
2lumpy said:
Folks don’t want to re-create those conditions.

If, and it’s a big if, they wanted different condition….. rather than the current conditions, it would be for more yearling bucks, but most don’t want either. They want to hunt, over any thing, now or in the future, they want a deer tag and the opportunity to take a buck………so that, if by any chance, they should see one, they’d have a tag to hang on it. What’s more…… they want nothing more or less for their son’s and daughter’s. for as long as the bucks last…… because buck don’t have fawns and you can’t stock pile bucks.

It’a a self fulfilling philosophy.
Click to expand...
You are implying that the hunting pressure is a direct result of the current hunting conditions, that is just not the case. The things that created those conditions had very little to do with the hunting pressure if it did we would be in a hunting paradise being as we have cut tags back by way more than half.

Lots of us "opportunity" guys would be all for creating the conditions talked about in the video, most of that will require vast amounts of range improvement, as well as lots of other improvements to roads, fences, ect....
 
2lumpy said:
Folks don’t want to re-create those conditions.

If, and it’s a big if, they wanted different condition….. rather than the current conditions, it would be for more yearling bucks, but most don’t want either. They want to hunt, over any thing, now or in the future, they want a deer tag and the opportunity to take a buck………so that, if by any chance, they should see one, they’d have a tag to hang on it. What’s more…… they want nothing more or less for their son’s and daughter’s. for as long as the bucks last…… because buck don’t have fawns and you can’t stock pile bucks.

It’a a self fulfilling philosophy.
Click to expand...

It's hilarious for some to think they are going to get 1080 back. Which was #1 in reasons for "the golden age"

Or railing ground.


No one is going to go for elk population numbers of the 50's either.

You watch a video like that, where dudes were shooting multiple bucks each year. Then shooting grandmas, grandpa's, cousin bobs, etc, and we pretend like "opportunity" is a bad word.

When you and I decided to have kids, we decided fewer deer, and more houses were ok.

But yeah, those evil damn kids want to hunt deer, JUST LIKE YOU AND I, how terrible
 
JakeH said:
You are implying that the hunting pressure is a direct result of the current hunting conditions, that is just not the case. The things that created those conditions had very little to do with the hunting pressure if it did we would be in a hunting paradise being as we have cut tags back by way more than half.

Lots of us "opportunity" guys would be all for creating the conditions talked about in the video, most of that will require vast amounts of range improvement, as well as lots of other improvements to roads, fences, ect....
Click to expand...

Yup.

And a near complete eradication of dogs, cats, bears.

We saw the chit storm ending cat seasons started. Now try bears.

It's flabbergasting that dudes spout about how management sucks, or don't do things like they did.

But they forget, all those old genius managers, actually shot out the herds with multiple tags and doe hunts.

I don't notice the newer generation doing either, yet they are the dumb ones.?

We watched a massive kill off in Cache and Morgan, because there wasn't winter range, there are houses. But magically if we just had 600,000 deer, that would no longer be an issue?

At some point we need to enter 2020's and get out of 1950
 
It is what it is..more people taking up more space..our mountains are full up from snow out till snow in..campers side by sides everywhere.. More people means more housing taking up more precious habitat..so something has got to give..it's a vicious circle guys.. and our deer herds unfortunately are taking the back seat
 
Not my photo,

But I believe this one got close to your magic number….. can’t remember exactly. But was told over 40”
elkassassin said:
Says The Guy That Gets To Hunt 42" Deer Every F'N Year!

That's GROSS!
Click to expand...
1928C772-F80C-4F98-AD73-19C24C58B8C8.jpeg
 
I'd guess that buck closer to 34" wide than 42" but that's just my opinion but a mature buck all the same and probably would be on most people's hit list just about anywhere.
 
I Don't Think There'd Need To Be a Contest Ridge!

If There Was a 40" Buck In This State Some DRAT Would Poach It!



ridgetops said:
I know you didn't say your hung up on 40"+ bucks. I did?. The thing is, wide bucks meant everything to most hunters back 50+ years ago. Very few had any interest in what a buck scored. There's a very good chance many of those 42"+ bucks brought in for the contest were taken illegally or illegal by today's standards. I'm pretty sure if there was a contest this year that paid out 100k for every buck over 40" and pretty much anything goes in getting it by Christmas time. We would see a few of those 42"ers that you don't think exist.
Click to expand...
 
42" Buck From Yesteryear Ain't Measured with a 36" YardStick!

42" Buck Of Today is a GROSS Score and A Trophy!

Welcome To The Future!
 
Hey hossy?

Can You Imagine If There Were A Few Of The Old Time 42"ERS Still Around?

(Not Your Type Of 42"ERS!)

Average Joe Blow Hunter Wouldn't Stand a Chance at Any Of Them!

The Money/GREED Show would Be Beyond A F'N Joke!

And You'd Have Public Ground Staked as Like In Private Property With Signs Saying: STAY THE F OUT!

Alot Of Modern Day Hunters Would Be Saying:

I Seen a 50"ER!

I Seen a 60"ER!

Can You Imagine The Price Tag a 42"ER Would Have On His Head In Today's World?

OK!

Back To Reality!

hossy Might get a 42"ER This Fall!











hossblur said:
You've never seen one anyway so what difference does it make?
Click to expand...
 
elkassassin said:
Hey hossy?

Can You Imagine If There Were A Few Of The Old Time 42"ERS Still Around?

(Not Your Type Of 42"ERS!)

Average Joe Blow Hunter Wouldn't Stand a Chance at Any Of Them!

The Money/GREED Show would Be Beyond A F'N Joke!

And You'd Have Public Ground Staked as Like In Private Property With Signs Saying: STAY THE F OUT!

Alot Of Modern Day Hunters Would Be Saying:

I Seen a 50"ER!

I Seen a 60"ER!

Can You Imagine The Price Tag a 42"ER Would Have On His Head In Today's World?

OK!

Back To Reality!

hossy Might get a 42"ER This Fall!
Click to expand...


So, your saying g corporate hunting has ruined Utah? I agree!!

But, your old enough to remember those big buck contests, and WHY they ain't around any more. Those old timers you put on a shelf, really enjoyed headlights. They generally didn't own calenders. All those truck guns, weren't always for self difference. At least that's what Kirt Darner told me
 

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