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Diced green chile is like bacon. It's fixes everything even if it ain't broke!

Order it now unless you have one. Been down this already...

I said hunting scenario. A controlled shootng situation is a far cry from the real thing. I'm glad they can see a neutral color basketball size target bare eye at 500 yds. Learn the difference between through and throw if you want to look like an intelligent smartass. Pay attention...

There likely won't be much of a difference though with scoped ALW and open-sight ALW on outcome since there are several people that can just as effectively make what many consider typical rifle shots at long distances (350 yds and beyond). Even if you (or me) thinks they can't. At least that's...

Nobody does out west I'm aware of. NM does have a limited weapons muzzleloader hunt though for some deer hunts. Flintlock or percussion cap, open sight, and full bore bullet or round ball only. I'm talking about multiple and split seasons instead of lumping all in at once statewide...

Split/multiple seasons? CO, NM,...

You mean UT actually going along with what other western states do?

I hope so, wouldn't be legal otherwise.

Only way is to make a separate hunt code with season dates. Otherwise, they just get a less expensive or duplicate muzzleloader and go open sight in Sept and then if they don't find the buck they want (or couldn't kill) just go again in Oct with the scope.

Yeah, that's what I thought. You don't know of anyone that can or is able to send a round into a 1'x1' low visibility target open sight at 400 yds.

Colorado?

Agreed, especially if it goes no scope. Most other states put all weapons hunts last. In this case, the ALW is more in line with the rut than the muzzy hunt is.

Maybe not with deer but they sure will with antelope. All the decent bucks scouted before my hunt this year were gone by the time the muzzy hunt rolled around. Does were still there the buck was gone. Archery hunters didn't get them because they were there well into the archery hunt. Even...

I wouldn't call it using the rule of law to break the law but they count on our misguided interpretation of being law-abiding to impose their will.

Yep. Essentially Hornady's version of Winchester's WSM and Remington's SAUM, both being beltless magnums. The PRC gives magnum performance in its line.

Yeah, many have told him that. Be interesting to see what April brings.

Easy mistake to make. The thread is originally about the San Juan.

No, they don't keep outsmarting us. They use our code of ethics against us as they have no moral code. They thrive on dishonesty and they should count their lucky stars that we even tolerate it. For now...

He's not the only they should be terrified of...

Yeah, I've seen 'Quigley Down Under' too. When a living human does shoot a deer at 400 yds open sight in a hunting scenario, I'll be eager to read about it. If it's already being done, please post it up since you know for a fact that my statement was absolutely false. Until then, it ain't...

Yep. This setup has no business shooting at anything past 300 yds.

Extrapolated data?

Based on how they collected the data, it's as good as you can get. Where they went wrong is using the increase in success for all 3 weapon types and then used rifle as the control to compare the efficacy of scopes on muzzleloaders. The increase in success of scopes on muzzleloaders would...

No more than normal. There are places on the Blues where bruiser doesn't need to come out of the "high country" all winter. There have only been a handful of times where I could've shot bulls while filling cow tags and that's because bulls and cows don't normally hang together this time of year.

No science, just data, and DWR interpreted it incorrectly...

"Bottle-neck" cartridges were never an issue before or now. It's the ability to harness the downrange energy. They use straight wall cartridges back east because of population density to limit the bullets effective range. You want to limit rifles, go open sight on them as well. A guy can hit...

You'd know 🤣

And the majority is done on federal. Totally different management plan than state.

USFWS approved or taking matters into their own hands? If so, they're not protected.

As I mentioned earlier on in another post on this thread, I'm looking forward to seeing what the results are after this year. NM has been mandatory harvest report for several years now, so that data will be as realistic as possible. I'm not concerned about the results for elk as they are...

Yes, I did, a few times and to make sure I had the timeframe correct as to when scopes became legal. The assumption used to keep rifle hunts as a constant and then use that to see the change in muzzleloader success is an incorrect method to use. It would be like comparing the use of an...

These are the real numbers. I spent this afternoon compiling the data from the DWR webpage from their annual reports section, inputting it into a spreadsheet so you can really see what's going on. There are a lot of discrepancies and a wide range of variances. The "covid" years played a...

Think everyone would be happier with CO's instead.

^^^SWEET!!

But the harvest data has been a talking point on the efficacy of scopes vs no scopes. If it were merely a matter of keeping a muzzleloader hunt in the true fashion of a muzzleloader hunt, the no scope rule would already decided and would be put into effect next year. The data set would only...

Is the data used "clean" or "dirty"? If the data being used is "dirty", it's not a good data set, the sample size is too small. It's also inconsistent because it doesn't take into account other vaiables. For the data to be valid or "clean", the same hunters surveyed the year before scopes...

Exactly. Almost like someone suddenly waking up out of a dead sleep.

As my teenager would say, "sorry, not sorry".

Need to put a fried egg on top. It's a NM thing...

But you know people will get over it and continue to hunt anyway regardless of the blowback.