260, 6.5x284 or 6.5-06 plain or AI'd

Apexmtnman

Active Member
Messages
591
I've got a new Kreiger 5r 8.5 twist barrel that I want to build something with. You guys with experiance in these calibers let me know what you would do. I'm thinking a Stiller long action, BDL on a HS Precision stock.
 
I Have A 6.5x284 And I would not trade it for nothing.can cover 3 shots with a dime at 100
 
I like velocity...to a point. I also like efficient cartridges that make the most out of their powder charge with little waste. That rules out the bigger magnums for parent cases and my liking.

If i were to build a 6.5 rifle, one of the things i'd be looking for was a cartridge that easy could push a 140gr pill at 3200+ FPS. I figure, the faster you start it, the better off your going to be down range.

The 4 that come to mind i'm thinking that could do that, the 6.5 WSM, 6.5 X 06AI, .264 Win mag, and the 6.5 x 270 Weatherby.

Myself, I'd be inclined to look real hard at either of the first two.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I've got 3 264 Win Mags, the latest is a custom with a Stiller action and Broughton barrel shooting 140 Berger VLD's at 3260 fps so I think I've got the fast one already. Was thinking of something a little slower and better on barrels to shoot alot at long range gongs and not waste barrel life on my 264. A friend built a 6.5x284 the same as my custom and it shoots very good, but barrel life isn't supposed to be real good on it either. He's getting about 2950-3000 fps with 140's in his gun. I suspect the 6.5-06 would be very similar to the 6.5x284 since case capacity is close to the same. Does anyone have any experience with a 260 and what kind of velocities can one expect with 140 gr bullets?
 
What are you going to use it for?

"Dear MacGuyver, Enclosed is a rubber band, a paper clip, and a drinking straw. Please save my dog." Peter Griffin aka The Family Guy
 
I think you could push a 260 into that 2800fps range with the 140s maybe a tad better with a longer barrel. You'd probably get 3x the barrel life out of the 260.

"Dear MacGuyver, Enclosed is a rubber band, a paper clip, and a drinking straw. Please save my dog." Peter Griffin aka The Family Guy
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-11 AT 00:45AM (MST)[p]Apex, i should have took note that it was you and not offered my thoughts knowing that anything i may recommend would be discarded as wasted efforts. There are some here that are always seemingly contrary and you are one. I'll remember next time to not waste my time!

That said, the 280 Rem is exceeded in velocity by my 280AI by at least 200 FPS. I would again suggest the 6.5 X 06AI version but probably to do so is the same as automatically crossing it off your own list.

I personally, am not interested in any of the lesser cartridges that you mention. Over-rated and just too mild for my taste or interests.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-11 AT 09:17AM (MST)[p]Where in my post did I say anything contrary to what you said Joey? I just said I had the high velocity round already figured out.
The 6.5-06 is one I'm very interested in, I don't know if I want to AI it or not forming cases can be a pain.
I'm looking for something to shoot alot at targets and gongs practicing at long range cause I think I'll use my 264 for hunting.
Thanks Peter, thats kind of what I was thinking about the 260 you would get about 3000 rounds out of a barrel but alot less performance.
Maybe I'll keep shooting the 264 and save this barrel for a replacement when I shoot the current one out.
 
Maybe it was your support and arguments of hunting Bull Elk with a .243 Win in another thread that gave me the idea that you were contrary...

Good point on forming the brass for the 6.5AI. My 280AI is a snap, piece of cake, but can see additional efforts for the 6.5

I don't hunt no stinking Gongs! :)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-26-11 AT 06:22PM (MST)[p]Joey
I've never shot an elk with a 243 but I don't see why it can't be done. I don't believe in minimum foot pounds of energy for the game being hunted either. I believe in bullet penetration through the vitals and doing as much damage as possible, thats what kills game animals not foot pounds of energy. With some of the new bullets available today this can be accomplished with some fairly small calibers as long as velocity is fast enough to open them up and bullets are placed correctly.

My niece killed a 190 class buck on the Henries this year at 700 yards with a 25-06 and 115 gr Bergers. The first shot broke his back and put him down and the second shot went through the lungs and finished him. At that range that bullet had about 1150 fp of energy, I wasn't there but my nephew was amazed at the damage done by that little bullet.

I shoot a lot of gongs lately, they don't taste to good but they sure are good practice for the hunts.

As for the 6.5-06AI maybe I should build one as a 6.5-280 AI and just neck down the Nosler 280 AI brass, wouldn't have to fire form but I would probably have to have a chamber reamer built.
 
Well, we've gone round and round with the "is the 243 good enough for Elk" issue in the other thread. I just believe that "most" who try with that little a cartridge are just going to go buy the cheapest green box stuff they can get. Now, Dog, he sometimes hunts a 6mm-06. Still a .243 caliber but with his loads and bullet selection, not to mention his experience behind his weapons, i'd have no problem with him shooting buffalo if he believed it would do the job.

I just don't have a lot of faith in Joe public getting the right ammo and then limiting himself on distance or exactly placing his shots, similar to my sig below, so i won't recommend it. I've seen too many guys out there shooting 6-7-800 yds, if they can see em they're shooting cause they have a tag, that they had no business, not even more than a prayer of doing much more than wounding the game if hitting it at all. Nuff said on that i guess...

I almost made up a 6.5 X 06 but my Smith recommended against it for some reason that i don't remember. I do love my 280AI though, what i had built instead, 140's a cronied 3250FPS with no signs of pressure and sub 1/2" if i do my part.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Joey
If Joe public is packing a 338 mag and doesn't practice or even sight in his rifle before the hunt he has a very good chance of wounding an elk instead of killing one. A decent shooter with a sighted in, and very familiar rifle in a 243 with good bullets should be able to kill an elk with a well placed shot at a reasonable range. We could argue about this till the cows come home, I guess we just have to agree to disagree.

I may just build a 6.5x284 as I think the 6.5-06AI might just be real close in performance to my 264 that I already have. I'm looking for something fun to shoot with good accuracy and not too much recoil, though my 264 is very manageable in the recoil department.
 
Why is it that in your scenario, the guy shooting the generally accepted elk cartridge, is always a bad or worse shot?

I know that you don't like or understand downrange remaining energy but at 400 yds the 100 gr .243 rem factory stuff has only about 800 FPE. Both the rifles that i currently hunt with have near 2000 and they are not the big boys toys. I just can't see supporting a way under powered cartridge for elk when there are those that are made to do the job.

See? You are contrary! :)

How about a 260AI?


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I will be getting my 260AI from the smith here shortly. I am hoping for about 3000fps with 130gr I will have to see what I end up getting once I get it home. I will post pictures when I get it home and will post group pictures.
 
Ishoota
I'll be interested in your 260AI post your findings on it when you get a chance.

Joey, I'm done on the 243 thingy, you done wore me out.

My nephew just built a 6.5x47 Lapua but had some issues so it went back to the smith, I'm curious about that round also.
 
Good! I have arguments going in other threads that i need to attend to. Of course, i'm not contrary at all. :)

It's your build, you sure ought to get what you want. i know guys with 4-5 6.5X284's in their closets. They're OK i guess, there's good things i hear, seems they should do a bit better velocity wise than they do. But they certainly are nothing new, about every target shooter has some and they move on to something else. I like stuff that not everybody has but my stuff too is now getting old hat.

It's your build, great luck with it!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I have a 6.5-284 and a 6.5-280ai. I have to turn the necks a fair bit on the 6.5-284, the 280 version is set up to just neck down the nosler brass and your good. So from the easy standpoint i like the 280 version better. I got the 6.5-280ai close to deer hunting so load work was get something suitable for killing deer and go. Got .5 to .75 at 100 with 139 interbounds and called it good. Killed a 140" whitetail here in WI and a 178" whitetail in KS. I hope to do some serious load work just to see what the gun will do group wise and velocity in the next week or so. The 6.5-284 is a heavier sendero type of set up, the 6.5-280ai is on the Win action of my first gun I ever bought, #4 Bartlien barrel and a English walnut stock I did myself--more of a hunting set up.
Basically build which ever you feel you want most and it will work great.
 
If I was putting together gong banger, paper puncher, I'd just stick with the good old 260. For what little youre gonna gain in performance and lose in barrel life, hastle of fire forming, etc... I'd rather just be shooting a great little round.

"Dear MacGuyver, Enclosed is a rubber band, a paper clip, and a drinking straw. Please save my dog." Peter Griffin aka The Family Guy
 
Isn't the Creedmore very similar to the 260 in powder capacity and speed. I think Lapua just started making brass for the 260 and with the Creedmore you'd be limited to Hornady brass if I'm not mistaken, may not be a bad thing though.
I'm interested in that 6.5x280ai bogey, let me know what you think about it after you've had a chance to play with it a little.
I'm also interested in that 260ai Ishoota, let me know how that one goes also.
I've been checking pawn shops for a donor, do you think you could use a short action for the 260 or would you have to go long action to be able to seat the VLD's out to the base of the neck.
Thanks for the responses guys.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-11 AT 08:23PM (MST)[p]THe 260 is just a 308 necked down. So yes you can get a build done on a short action. Away to get a donor action could be to watch Cabelas for when they run a special on the Remington ADL SPS. THat is how I got my donor action. I got the gun for about $350 with optics. I will have a barrel to sell, stock and the cheap optics when I have some money to buy some nice glass. Also Lapua has started making 260 brass.
I believe that they are very similar. My understanding about the Creedmoor is that it was developed for the AR platform. Not saying you could not put it in a bolt action.
I beleive that you are correct that only hornady makes the Creedmoor brass. I just looked in the Hornady manual because I have it here at my place and not where I reload for the 95-100gr bullet they are listed as the same at 3200, for the 120-123gr they say the creedmoor has a max volocity of 3000 100fps over the 260, they are the same for 129gr at 2900fps, they give the creedmoor 25fps for the 140gr, and then the 260 gets 50fps.
I will let you know when I get it. I called the other day and he told me that he is waiting for the reamer to come in. That is all that he was waiting on. I am in no big rush for it yet because we don't have a wolf hunting season yet and it sounds like we are going to be doing it by lottery if we get it nore do I hold a sheep tag of any sort and that is what the build was for. I wanted a light weight mountain rifle. I will be a long time beofre it is all done becaue I will be waiting for a group buy on a McMillian edge so I can get it a somewhat reasonalble price. It will be a remington 700 action with a 24" shilen #2 barrel McMIllian EDGE stock Badger Ordinance rings and basses and I am not sure of what for optics yet but leaning towards a Leupold CDS.
 
The 260 lapua brass is great. I'm sure you'll be happy with any of the 6.5s.

Another plus for the 260 is that it's a super caliber to reload for. For whatever reason it's a forgiving caliber and tends to shoot a lot of different loads well.

"Dear MacGuyver, Enclosed is a rubber band, a paper clip, and a drinking straw. Please save my dog." Peter Griffin aka The Family Guy
 
Great info guys! So if a 6.5X260 is a child of the 308, what do they call the 6.5X257Bob which parent case would be the 7x57?

6.5 x 257 Roberts IMP, i ain't heard of that one yet! :)


The more case capacity of the 257 case, improve it when fire-forming it up to 6.5 yet still short enough that with a long action, you could seat them way out there with no worries. book it! lol

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-11 AT 08:42AM (MST)[p]Ishoota
I know the 260 is based off of the 308 but max oal for the 308 is listed as 2.810 inches, when I take a 140 VLD on a 243 case (also based off the 308) I'm coming up with about 3.00 inches of oal to the base of the neck roughly (boat tail inside case), don't know if that will feed through a short action. The 284 is also designed to fit in a short action but most guys use a long action to be able to seat the bullets out farther when they build a 6.5x284. If you're building your 260 imp on a short action I wonder if seating depth will limit your powder capacity. I don't know I'm just asking, maybe talk to your smith and see what he says. I only have one short action rifle and its a Ruger M77 243, and it doesn't look like 3.00 inches will fit in its magazine.
Joey
Here's a list of 6.5 reamers that are offered by Pacific Tool And Guage and the 6.5x257 Roberts is listed and the improved version also. They also list a 6.5x7mm Mauser don't know what the difference would be but there ya go. Look in .264 listing also for reamers as they make a ton.

<http://www.pacifictoolandgauge.com/reamers2.htm#remtab>
 
"...don't know what the difference would be but there ya go. Look in .264 listing also for reamers as they make a ton."

I thought it was you who was looking for suggestions?? I guess i was right all along. Funny how after doing this for a long time, a guy just knows sometimes. You were just going to discount, ignore anything i suggested, i WAS wasting my time! lol

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Holy crap Joey I show you a list of reamers that are available and you go off on me about not useing your suggestions. You're right I don't need anything from you, for the rest of you guys thanks for the suggestions and keep posting useful information.
 
See? Why would i need a list of reamers? I'm not the one building.

100% as expected!! My info and experience was discounted by you in the other thread and was going to be in this one too. Glad to see that i can still call em!

Then your comment, "for the rest of you guys thanks for the suggestions and keep posting useful information."

Is that a slap in the face? Well, screw you!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-11 AT 12:24PM (MST)[p]Joey
I showed you the list of reamers because you said you hadn't heard of a 6.5x257ai and if you look in the list, instead of calling me names, you will see it listed. What experience do you have with any of the cartridges listed, you have a 280ai what the he11 does that have to do with any of the rounds I mentioned. I'll post on another forum where I won't be attacked by the resident know-it-all. Goodbye.

Oh and by the way KMA.
 
Apex, Where did i call you names? please do a quote so i can apologise if i did, otherwise i'll call you a liar for making up untruths and that would be true.

My experience, Laughable! I'm not a know it all but i do know plenty of useful info that i'm glad to share here and have been doing so for a long time. Yes, plinking, gong rifles are not my specialty but i have many friends here locally and at the two gun clubs that i'm a lifetime member of that do shoot the stuff, hunt, and chat about with, the nitch that you are referring to.

I brought up my 280ai as reference to liking what the AI version of cartridges will do for a regular cartridge...the possibility of the 6.5X06AI, remember? No denying, in a lot a instances, the AI version will greatly improve a plain cartridges performance into a little beast. At no place in this thread did i suggest you build a 280AI, did i?

If you want to feel free to move on. As i said above, i believe it is you who is the know it all and any suggestions that i might have would be discounted out of hand. Actually, i have had fun with this thread. Some of my best buddies and i go around and around over cartridges. I do though, hold it against one, when they make up stories, especially ones not true and about me like in your last post so, it's up to you to do as you please.

You are just mad because i had you pegged from the get go!! lol

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Ishoota
Isn't the Grendel made for the AR platform? You could chamber it in a bolt gun I guess but its on the lower end of the performance scale of what I'm looking for.
bogey's 6.5x280ai looks very promising, nice KS buck by the way bogey.
 
Apex, Where did i call you names??

I suggested the 6.5 x06AI in the 2nd post but you then discounted it and went on to claim all about your 264 Win Mags and how you want something smaller. The 6.5X06AI and the 6.5X 280AI are virtually the exact same thing by different numbers but now you really like it as "Bogey's" suggestion. lol

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
: 260, 6.5x284 or 6.5-06 plain or AI'd

Apex, i figure that you have had some time to get back ahold of your emotions so you can answer my question as to your accusation that i called you names.

I'm not going anywhere and i doubt that you will be able to avoid or want to have to try an avoid me all the time so just admit that you lied.

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-28-11 AT 10:39PM (MST)[p]In my very first post I said " You guys with experiance in these calibers let me know what you would do." What experience do you have with any of the rounds mentioned Joey?

I'm typing real slow so you'll understand Joey. In post #7 I said "Where in my post did I say anything contrary to what you said Joey? I just said I had the high velocity round already figured out.
The 6.5-06 is one I'm very interested in."

In post #9 I said "As for the 6.5-06AI maybe I should build one as a 6.5-280 AI and just neck down the Nosler 280 AI brass, wouldn't have to fire form but I would probably have to have a chamber reamer built."

So if I said I was interested in the 6.5x06 twice in two seperate posts why are you saying I'm not interested in anything you say. I am amazed that you slammed on me like you did when I was interested in your suggestion.

In post #26 you said "Is that a slap in the face? Well, screw you!" Thats not name calling I guess but you're telling me FU in my book.

I guess to be on your good side I have to say," Gee thanks Joey I'm so glad you suggested the 6.5-06ai I'm going to the smith tomorrow and have one made up, no more suggestions needed guys the mighty Sageadvice has spoken."

I thought it was a discussion on the merits of all three rounds that I mentioned at the beggining of the thread not a discussion that ends as the mighty Joey speaks.

You guys with experience with these rounds, thanks for your comments thats what I'm looking for, actual experience with them will help me decide which way to go.

And Joey maybe just maybe you've been sniffing a little too much ABS glue lately.
 
Apexmtnman you are right it was desinged for the AR, but thought the 6.5 grendel might be a fun gun. I would have to imagine that it would recoil about like a 22.
 
Where did i call you names?? Please answer the question!

Besides what i've already stated in post #28, i'll type this slow for you, I have plenty of experience, over 40 years of cartridges and ballistics being a major hobby, to feel qualified to respond to your silly questions. You are the one asking, Remember? lol

You liked Bogeys suggestion but not mine, same cartridge! LMAO!!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Well, It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong and Apexman obviously would rather try and twist conversations, edit key phrases out of the submitted text after the fact, and make up lies to discredit, than to admit he was wrong and possibly gain back any respect he's lost in my book. Sure!

I had you pegged for contrary the moment that you started this thread! lol

I'll admit, i knew he was this way but i still offered my best advice and my opinions. For that, i was wrong!

When did i call you names??

Oh, i guess i'm not "Qualified" to offer an opinion to some new guy on guns, something i've been doing here maybe hundreds of threads going back to day 1 with no complaints? Gimme a freak-en Break!

Where did i call you names? You are a liar!

What can a guy expect from a guy who supports guys, recommends, and gives encouragement to them that question the use of the .243 Win. or do use the same for Bull Elk hunts out to 600+ yards?

Nothing against kids but i wouldn't be surprised if you were still in school!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Go back and read the original post again Joey, I know reading comprehension isn't one of your strong suits, but read it again real slow. Here it is for ya.

"I've got a new Kreiger 5r 8.5 twist barrel that I want to build something with. YOU GUYS WITH EXPERIENCE IN THESE CALIBERS LET ME KNOW WHAT YOU WOULD DO. I'm thinking a Stiller long action, BDL on a HS Precision stock."

What part of WITH EXPERIENCE don't you understand. Do you have any first hand experience at all with any of the rounds mentioned? Have you ever owned or shot any of the rounds mentioned?

Joey I've also been reloading for over forty years, I've got a library full of reloading manuals, I've got a safe full of guns, I've read book after book on ballistics, what did you offer me that I don't already know? I was looking for ACTUAL EXPERIENCE, can I say that any plainer?

Bogey emailed me pictures of his new rifle chambered in 6.5-280ai with some pictures of a nice whitetail that he harvested with the gun. Thanks Bogey, beautiful gun and deer. Gee someone with actual EXPERIENCE, thats a novel concept! He just might have shared it with the whole forum if you hadn't turned this whole thread into a pissing match.

I'll say it again, maybe this time it will sink in, you said "Screw You" thats not an official name calling but its the same as saying FU if you ask me, not nice no matter how you look at it.

You didn't call me a name, I lied, now go bug some one else I've had enough.
 
Joey

Me a kid? Me a new guy? Surely you jest. I've been on the forum for at least five years now, I'm not a posting machine like you and actually I'm about the same age as you.
This all goes back to the 243 thread? I made some suggestions and offered some ballistics to back it up and now I'm a dumbass?
Man Joey get a life!
 
You said, "What part of WITH EXPERIENCE don't you understand. Do you have any first hand experience at all with any of the rounds mentioned? Have you ever owned or shot any of the rounds mentioned?"

Did you read the second paragraph in post #28? How much is enough experience to offer to help a guy out? Don't be a condescending a-hole on top of everything else. I can read and did read your OP just fine and comprehend just fine but you keep going back to that. My best bud shot a 6.5X55imp for years and guess who reloaded his ammo. My 40 yr hunting pard shoots a custom Hill country 264 Win mag and i helped him develop his load.

I came within minutes of having built a 6.5X06 myself after having done all the research. I have sighted in two different 260 Rems for guys that don't shoot often enough to trust their own bench skills... It goes on and on going back over 40 years but you want to qualify me to help with your question because i don't actually specialize in pop gun gong pounders? Here's a news flash for you, You were asking the questions and i was offering to help you!

Where did i call you names?

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Where did i call you names?

You just did Joey, you called me a "condescending a-hole" if thats not name calling I don't know what is.

In all of your rant where did you say you actually owned or shot any of the calibers I'm asking about, where? Please show me, I'm looking but I don't see it anywhere, I didn't ask about the 6.5x55imp or the 264 now did I? Coming within minutes of owning one is not quite the same now is it Joey.

You said if you called me a name you would apologize, well I'm waiting... Aw just send me a box of chocolates instead, pm me for my address. Nothing says "I'm sorry" better than a nice box of chocolates find some real nice ones will ya Joey.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-11 AT 10:11AM (MST)[p]So, you are stupid too! Where are YOUR reading comprehension skills? I didn't call you a name, i said "Don't be a condescending a-hole" If i would have said, "you are a condescending a-hole", like i may have believed, yes, that would have been calling you names. But i didn't and i have not.

But that is twice now that you falsely claimed that i called you bad names! Show me, liar.

Edit; stupid and liar don't count as bad names. The shoes obviously fits you so you have to from now on wear them! Oh, does setting up and sighting in two different 260's for a couple guys, as i said above, count as shooting one? it always used to but with you i'm not sure that counts! We cronied the factory loads too. Not very impressive and so the reason i 'll stick to hunting with the next notch up.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
It's gonna be a long winter...

horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
Joey, Why so frikken hard on this guy? I don't think his intention was to make you look bad or inexperienced. Just my take on what I read. Take it easy man. I've gone round and round with ya. Remember? mtmuley
 
"I've gone round and round with ya. Remember?"

Yeah, and you once said that you did it for the fun of it! Remember? nuff said on that.

I'm going to Reno for three nights on the morrow to kick my heels up some. You guys have fun while i'm away. :)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
>Joey, Why so frikken hard on
>this guy? I don't think
>his intention was to make
>you look bad or inexperienced.
>Just my take on what
>I read. Take it easy
>man. I've gone round and
>round with ya. Remember? mtmuley
>

I was thinking the same thing Joey... I bet we are not the only ones... I think you had a miscommunication issue, easy to do while reading text... Have fun in Reno


horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
Thanks Snort and Muley I thought I was going nuts. I thought I asked a simple question and I got hammered.
Joey, have fun in Reno I think you need it. LOL
 
Apex, maybe i tried to liven this place up some at your expense. I generally don't do that but some here do it as a matter of keeping in practice. Can't say i think much of it!

Still though, you are contrary and i never did call you names! :)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Easy girls your both pretty, There is a really good reason the 6.5 panther was adopted by rem and renamed the 260 rem because at a grand it made all the big guns like the 30-378 300 ultra 338 ultra 300 edge all look silly 6.5-06 280ai 257 roberts bla bla bla

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