300 mag 2.5" high 100 yards, 3" high 200 yards?

DonVathome

DonVathome

Very Active Member
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I cannot explain this. 100 yards I am 2.5" high and 200 yards I am 3" high. Same gun, same bullets same day switched back and forth twice (100 then 200, back to 100 then 200 yards). How? Tikka 300 win mag, got a new muzzle break - first time shooting after it was installed. Remington corlokt bullets.
 
sounds like its still going up, but more then likely its the shooter.. shoot it at 300. or better yet shoot it through a chronograph calculate some ballistics and see what your gun is doing
 
DonVathome said:
I cannot explain this. 100 yards I am 2.5" high and 200 yards I am 3" high. Same gun, same bullets same day switched back and forth twice (100 then 200, back to 100 then 200 yards). How? Tikka 300 win mag, got a new muzzle break - first time shooting after it was installed. Remington corlokt bullets.
Click to expand...
What are you struggling with? The bullet is still climbing after 100 yds. Simple as that.
 
The bullet doesn't climb. They don't have wings and lift or superman powers. The bullet starts falling as soon as it leaves the barrel. It may shoot high due to the angle of the scope vs barrel angle, but the bullet isn't climbing.

Like highlighted above, much more info is needed for us to begin to help you with your question. Sight height, muzzle velocity, Bullet weight and B.C., elevation, angle from barrel to target, etc....

One thing your gun/ammo is not doing, is defying physics. It is obviously possible for it to be doing what its doing...

Todd
 
As mentioned above your scope is obviously higher than your barrel, so two different angles to reach “zero”. Your rifle is likely at zero closer to 300 yards. Just like if you were sighted in at 100 yds, if you took a shot at say 25 yds you would have to aim high.
 
Here is an example ballistic chart that matches your two points. Of course, this is not your BC or velocity, or sight height. But it does illustrate an example flight path that matches what you are seeing. You can put your own info into this calculator at Hornday.com:
1627075915996.png
 
just_a_hunter said:
The bullet doesn't climb. They don't have wings and lift or superman powers. The bullet starts falling as soon as it leaves the barrel. It may shoot high due to the angle of the scope vs barrel angle, but the bullet isn't climbing.



Todd
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This is not true. If the barrel is pointed at any angle greater than perfectly horizontal then it is going to increase in elevation from the point it was fired at (I.e climb). At some point depending on all that **** you mentioned it will stop doing that and begin to drop in elevation (I.e fall).

the only way the bullet drops in elevation (fall) as soon as it leaves the barrel is if the barrel is held either perfectly level with horizontal or any angle less than that. Otherwise it’s going to go up for some distance (climb).
 
Both are true of course. The bullet clearly drops due to gravity the entire flight path straight out of the barrel line of axis- physics. But also true is that most barrels are pointed "up" several MOA from the scope alignment to get a zero point somewhere from 150-250 yards. So the bullet "climbs" relative to the scope line of sight, even though it is dropping from the barrel's pointed axis.
 
DonV.
I see no issue with your trajectory observations at 100 and 200.
Sound about right for most rifle with high velocities like your 300 Mag.
Like asked, what zero range are you trying to achieve? How high can you live with at the mid-range (highest point when sighing for MPBR)?
I like 3” high at 100 in some rifles but I have to plan on impact about 4” high at 200 yards. Speaking round number but you can see some cartridges, scope height combos shoot higher at 200 than 100…which is exactly the case you found.

Zeke
 
mulecreek said:
This is not true. If the barrel is pointed at any angle greater than perfectly horizontal then it is going to increase in elevation from the point it was fired at (I.e climb). At some point depending on all that **** you mentioned it will stop doing that and begin to drop in elevation (I.e fall).

the only way the bullet drops in elevation (fall) as soon as it leaves the barrel is if the barrel is held either perfectly level with horizontal or any angle less than that. Otherwise it’s going to go up for some distance (climb).
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A bullet starts dropping from it's original trajectory right away when it leaves the bore. Just because the trajectory is pointed up, does not mean the bullet "climbs". It just appears this way due to line of sight crossing bullet flight path due to unparallel lines.

However, your observations are a layman's terminology as most would think.
 
I remember when I was a kid shooting my daddy's rifle and asking the same question. Really though...buy a dang scope with turrets, make yourself a DOPE chart, go verirfy your chart by sending few down range and you won't have to worry about how many inches it's dropping or rising. So dang easy to do!
 
RookieWYhntr said:
I remember when I was a kid shooting my daddy's rifle and asking the same question. Really though...buy a dang scope with turrets, make yourself a DOPE chart, go verirfy your chart by sending few down range and you won't have to worry about how many inches it's dropping or rising. So dang easy to do!
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Most guys with scopes that can be adjusted for elevation have no need for them. mtmuley
 
Tried explaining this to a younger bud one time, velocity is slowing as soon as it leaves the barrel, hence it's dropping, as said adjusting the scope so the line of sight is intersecting the flight path of the bullet twice, makes some people visualize the bullet is going up, when reality is its falling the whole time.
Mike
 
True, the bullet is falling from the “bore line” the whole time but yet it “rises” from its beginning of below “line of sight”, to above line of sight and then continues dropping crossing once again to fall below line of sight.
It certainly “rises” above line of sight but this is based on departure angle v line of sight giving bullet impact points the appearance that it’s going up….which it is from line of sight. Which it isn’t from bore line.
Throw a rock up in the air and it can continue to go up yet it’s actually falling from departing angle the whole time.
Splitting hairs to insist it’s one term or the other IMHO….but yet I’m a stickler for proper nomenclature rise or fall, carry on.

Zeke
 
For western hunting Soft zero on any higher velocity cartridge 3.5-4.5 high at 100 yds. This will give You the ability to be + /- anywhere from 0 - about 315 yds kill shot on any mule deer buck, however that’s with the caveat of you knowing your rifle and round.finding what works when, where, and how… practice.

Where is Zero? Pick a distance yardage and shoot. If it doesn’t backtrack to zero data, something s off..
 
Sorry guys been busy, I have standard mounts I will try to measure Leupold VX-6 42mm scope. I understand everything - especially the bullet crossing your line of sight twice. I never expected this happened in the way I experienced. I simply thought it had definitely crossed the second time before 100 yards thus impossible to hit higher at 200. I was wrong. 300 yard ranges are almost nonexistant on ohio - I have never had access to a public one.
 
mod700 said:
Tried explaining this to a younger bud one time, velocity is slowing as soon as it leaves the barrel, hence it's dropping, as said adjusting the scope so the line of sight is intersecting the flight path of the bullet twice, makes some people visualize the bullet is going up, when reality is its falling the whole time.
Mike
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Velocity slowing has nothing to do with dropping.

Velocity slows due to drag.

The bullet is pulled towards the ground(dropping) by gravity.
 
Zeke said:
True, the bullet is falling from the “bore line” the whole time but yet it “rises” from its beginning of below “line of sight”, to above line of sight and then continues dropping crossing once again to fall below line of sight.
It certainly “rises” above line of sight but this is based on departure angle v line of sight giving bullet impact points the appearance that it’s going up….which it is from line of sight. Which it isn’t from bore line.
Throw a rock up in the air and it can continue to go up yet it’s actually falling from departing angle the whole time.
Splitting hairs to insist it’s one term or the other IMHO….but yet I’m a stickler for proper nomenclature rise or fall, carry on.

Zeke
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The point of impact may "rise" relative to the sight line. The bullet does no such thing.
 
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Geez, it's simple to show what's happening. When I was teaching HE in the 1970s, I had a slide show to illustrate most of what was taught during the course. One slide I created from my artwork showed the trajectory as being discusssed here. It looked something like the crude, not quite accurately scaled image below that I just drew in a Paint program.

One thing I promoted at the time was to sight for the first zero at 25 yds. as shown, which worked for most calibers and hunting situations BACK THEN. That gave a decent 'point blank' range where no compensation was needed. Someone ---maybe Weaver, Remington or Winchester -- even had a 25-yd. zero chart showing lots of calibers. Obviously, they were all not alike, and your mileage will vary depending on the height of your scope above the barrel. I was still using that concept for my .264 & .300 when I quit hunting.

Untitled.jpg
 
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idahomuleyhunter said:
The point of impact may "rise" relative to the sight line. The bullet does no such thing.
Click to expand...
Shoot a bullet straight up. Yes, gravity and friction are working on it the whole time but it’s hardly falling from the moment it leaves the bore even though it’s destined to do so because of physics …then gravity and friction overcome it’s forward motion and it will fall.
That’s bullet is rising because it’s “propelled” to do so. Yes, not of it’s own accord. Yep, no wings etc.
Cool discussion.

Zeke
 
Geez. Climbing = increasing height relative to a fixed HORIZONTAL line.

Dropping = decreasing height relative to a fixed HORIZONTAL line.

Bullets definitively CLIMB then DROP if the barrel is held at any angle above horizontal. This does not conflict with and is PERFECTLY in tune with ballistic trajectory physics (because it IS ballistic trajectory) and the fact that acceleration due to gravity is acting on the bullet from the moment it leaves the bore, thus slowing the climb and then speeding the drop (to a point, until terminal vertical velocity were able to be reached if it had a far enough drop).

Some people may need to ask their high school kids to explain.
 
Zeke said:
Shoot a bullet straight up. Yes, gravity and friction are working on it the whole time but it’s hardly falling from the moment it leaves the bore even though it’s destined to do so because of physics …then gravity and friction overcome it’s forward motion and it will fall.
That’s bullet is rising because it’s “propelled” to do so. Yes, not of it’s own accord. Yep, no wings etc.
Cool discussion.

Zeke
Click to expand...
I'll remember that when I have to shoot an elk flying over head.
 
Horizontal: parallel to, in the plane of, or operating in a plane parallel to the horizon or to a baseline

The baselines of reference are the bore and the sight. The earth horizon isn't of note.

Most shooters care what the bullet does relative to where they are aiming rather than the orientation of flat ground. Maybe that's just me.
 
The baselines of reference are the bore and the sight. The earth horizon isn't of note.


it is of note......it is the only thing that makes a bullet drop
 
idahomuleyhunter said:
Horizontal: parallel to, in the plane of, or operating in a plane parallel to the horizon or to a baseline

The baselines of reference are the bore and the sight. The earth horizon isn't of note.

Most shooters care what the bullet does relative to where they are aiming rather than the orientation of flat ground. Maybe that's just me.
Click to expand...
true that you are interested in point of aim vs bore but horizontal travel relative to the earth is very much part of the equation if you are interested in the effect of gravity on a hurled object. Want to really see it in action? try archery.
 
I Was Wrong!

Again!

When Pointing the Barrel Vertical I Guess The Bullet Isn't Dropping Immediately!

But When It Starts Raining Down on You...............!:D
 
Geezus, if the OP can’t even get a range past 300 yards because of geographic location. Honestly what is the thought process behind the post ? Not trying to be an a**hat, but unless your shooting cottontails with a 300 winney plus or minus is irrelevant at these yardages. Just sayin’
 
ElkAssassin raises a good point. So let’t go one step further. Gravity’s effect is apparentl based on the time the projectile
is in the air. Vector is vertical. It’s often stated, even by my posts above that it acts on a bullet over the horizontal distance. Really, it acts on the bullet as related to the angular component of horizontal and the time it takes to travel. Start horizontal, and it will “drop” immediatley at -9.8 m/s squared (the minus noting the downward direction of the force) as your angle increases, the projectile wont drop immediatley. although it rises it is still being de-accelerated at -9.8 m/s sq., so its vertical velocity is instantly decreasing finally reaching zero vertical velocity before then falling at -9.8 m/s squared. A vertically shot bullet will only climb and drop along the vertical axis, and will reach the maximum height potential for that bullet/load. It will have zero horizontal travel. A bullet aimed near (but not exactly 45 (air reaistance) will make the most horizontal travel but much less height.

The good news is that 6.5 CM shooters don’t have to worry about this. Just aim and hit bullseye at any distance.
 
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idahomuleyhunter said:
I'll remember that when I have to shoot an elk flying over head.
Click to expand...
And remember some of that when you shoot at upward or downward angles.
And yes, it’s all relative to line of sight since I don’t know anyone who lines up by looking down the bore.
 
Zeke said:
And remember some of that when you shoot at upward or downward angles.
And yes, it’s all relative to line of sight since I don’t know anyone who lines up by looking down the bore.
Click to expand...

I agree ? on this. It’s easy to see who is Killer hunters vs killer Shooter’s on posts like this. If ya wanna be a killer develop those skills if wanna be a precise shooter develop those skills.
 
I cannot find a range past 200. I am working to find a place to shoot at 300. The point of this post is to get an idea what to expect - and hopefully I can confirm at 300 yards when I find a range. Even if I cannot find a range that goes to 300 because of this post and a ballistics table that confirms it I will be comfortable shooting at an elk or caribou (my 2 fall hunts) at 300 yards - but not further unless I shoot at 300 before hunting.
 
Zeke said:
And remember some of that when you shoot at upward or downward angles.
Click to expand...
Aaah yes. In either case the bullet impact will be relative to the horizontal plane it travels rather than along the angled distance. Thus, the point of impact will normally be higher at any given distance, whether shooting up or downhill.
 
OutdoorWriter said:
Aaah yes. In either case the bullet impact will be relative to the horizontal plane it travels rather than along the angled distance. Thus, the point of impact will normally be higher at any given distance, whether shooting up or downhill.
Click to expand...
Let’s see you explain and diagram that one chief.:LOL:
 
Bluehair said:
Let’s see you explain and diagram that one chief.:LOL:
Click to expand...
Here ya go.

In this example, picture it as a right angle triangle & remember the old 3-4-5 rule from geometry class. Let's say the D to T is 250 (5) yds. That means the short vertical leg - target to horizontal-- is 150 (3) yds. & the Gravity ED is 200 (4) yds. So although the bullet travels 250 yds from the shooter's position to the target, gravity affects it over a distance of only 200 yds. Same effect uphill; just flip the drawing. Thus, if you range your target at 250, your bullet will hit at the 200 yd. impact point of the normal trajectory.

Now, for your homework..... :rolleyes:


Untitled3.JPG


In the uphill version, the bullet path would be above the black line, of course.
Untitled4.JPG
 
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So if my rifle is sighted for 100 yard zero and I shoot at one of those flying elk at 250 yards high when he is exactly straight above me... how much holdover, or hold under, do I have to allow? And where exactly is over, or under, when pointing straight in the air?
 
6.5" assuming a BC of 0.5, 3100 FPS, 180gr bullet. There's about 200 yards of the range that hovers over 5" high.
 
Come on guys?
You can’t tell me you can’t zero your gun at 400 yards
It doesn’t matter the ammo that it just the way I have it set up!!
FFS
 
Most Of You Might as Well Invest in some Turret Twisting!

You'd Have Way Less Guess Work to do or to Remember!

REDDOG Has His Gun Sighted in 9 Feet High at a 1,000 Yards!

Hence His 2 Mile Shooting Range!
 
coloradoman said:
Come on guys?
You can’t tell me you can’t zero your gun at 400 yards
It doesn’t matter the ammo that it just the way I have it set up!!
FFS

You certainly can, but most folks I know don't:

The reason most hunters pick a zero point out around 200-275 is to maximize a zone where they can basically aim using the crosshairs without adjustment for large game. Say a trajectory that stays within +/- 3". This is a 2 zone trajectory, Zone 1 is aim dead on, Zone 2 is adjust up based on range. Reasonable to keep track of, and has the added benefit of having the dead on zone where they most likely will attempt a shot.

1627305441638.png


The reason most hunters don't zero out further (like 400) is that forces a 4 zone trajectory. Zone 1 dead on, Zone 2 aim LOW, Zone 3 dead on, Zone 4 aim high. Harder to keep track of, and also forces adjustments across a broad range where they will likely attempt a shot.

1627305485702.png
 
SS! said:
Holy **** how old are you blue? ?
Click to expand...
Old enough to believe that the internet was invented:

1) to send porn, and
2) to determine once and for all if a 270 is enough gun for elk.

My age begins with a 6. I’m going thru my second toddlerhood.:censored:
 
Bluehair said:
Old enough to believe that the internet was invented:

1) to send porn, and
2) to determine once and for all if a 270 is enough gun for elk.

My age begins with a 6. I’m going thru my second toddlerhood.:censored:
Click to expand...
I'll defer on 1), but I always thought Jack O'Connor settled 2) long before that.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
I'll defer on 1), but I always thought Jack O'Connor settled 2) long before that.
Click to expand...
Speaking of O'Connor....

I believe when he was the shooting editor at Outdoor Life many, many years ago, he was one of the first ones to write an article that suggested sighting in at 25 yd. With some of today's cartridges & higher scope mounts, the concept doesn't work as well because the mid-range trajectory is way too high to be considered "point blank."
 
OutdoorWriter said:
Speaking of O'Connor....

I believe when he was the shooting editor at Outdoor Life many, many years ago, he was one of the first ones to write an article that suggested sighting in at 25 yd. With some of today's cartridges & higher scope mounts, the concept doesn't work as well because the mid-range trajectory is way too high to be considered "point blank."
Click to expand...
Funny you mention that. The data in my earlier post that developed the graph is straight from coloradoman's 300WM cartridge- using best velocity, bc, wt in Nosler manual, put into trajectory calculator with scope 1.5" above, then tuned for longest +/- 3" range (or "point blank"). Note the first zero point.... 25 yards.
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Funny you mention that. The data in my earlier post that developed the graph is straight from coloradoman's 300WM cartridge- using best velocity, bc, wt in Nosler manual, put into trajectory calculator with scope 1.5" above, then tuned for longest +/- 3" range (or "point blank"). Note the first zero point.... 25 yards.
Click to expand...
Yup. As I mentioned earlier, I was still using that concept for both my .264 & .300 until I quit hunting. They are still sighted that way, nonetheless. In 2003, I had to make some adjustment to the .264 when I went from a 40mm to a 50mm scope, thus higher mount bases.

Why I had to swap out scopes is a crazy story in itself.
 
DonVathome said:
I cannot explain this. 100 yards I am 2.5" high and 200 yards I am 3" high. Same gun, same bullets same day switched back and forth twice (100 then 200, back to 100 then 200 yards). How? Tikka 300 win mag, got a new muzzle break - first time shooting after it was installed. Remington corlokt bullets.
Click to expand...
Honest to God, first try and switch your bullet. Go with the Hornady 180 Grain SST or the Precision Hunter 178 Grain ELDX. I have the same gun and shoot Sub-Moa at 2.5 High at 100. Top dead Center. Killed my buck at 411 yds UP Hill at over 6000 foot elevation by putting the scope right at top of shoulder, Dropped the buck dead in his track. Please do not adjust anything but try a different ammunition first. I would start there.
 
Congrats to the guys that gotta my likes on this old post, obviously your sarcastic words held up??
 
Man, I like old resurrected threads…..
If the op is still confused, pull out your pisser and point it horizontal….(straight ahead) at a target the same height and let it fly. Observe the drop below target. Now go drink a few beers and load back up. Then aim your pisser a foot higher than target at same distance and see where she lands.

If that doesn’t explain what your bullet is doing than you are a liberal democrat that tucks their gender. You belong with the activists for furries and trans Americans. Confusion is a natural reoccurring genetic for your type and should be embraced and sustained by staying with your kind….away from my kind.
 
OutdoorWriter said:
Yup. As I mentioned earlier, I was still using that concept for both my .264 & .300 until I quit hunting. They are still sighted that way, nonetheless. In 2003, I had to make some adjustment to the .264 when I went from a 40mm to a 50mm scope, thus higher mount bases.

Why I had to swap out scopes is a crazy story in itself.
Click to expand...
I'm with you HeartShot. Was scrolling and reading until I saw a reply from OW. RIP Tony. We miss you.
 
From the time I started hunting with scoped rifle at around 12 yrs old, my grandfather always had me sight in my hunting rifle for deer, elk and bear, 270 win or 308 win...3 inches high at 100 yards. He tought me that doing this allowed me to spot the animal get set for the shot hold on the boiler room and send it. I grew up in an area where a long deer shot was 150 yards or so and elk was out to 300 unless we caught em in a massive clear cut but then i just adjusted my hold. I grew up shooting Jr olympic trap and skeet and LOTS of duck hunting as well as shooting silhouette and just about every thing else you can think of. We shot and hunted thats what we did and do. They called it Kentucky windage in the Army but they identified me real quick as a shooter and its it because i grew up shooting a LOT. 2-3 inches high at 100 and you dont even hardly have to think out to 300-350 ish. Seems a bit farther out id hold a bit higher above the boiler room and send it and have always had great luck with this method.

No when shooting out in the eastern part of the state we would zap ground squirrels and coyotes at all kinds of ranges which also helped a bunch. When we hunted Muleys in the flatter country i hunted the same way EXCEPT i doped my rifle out to 500 or so just to be sure.

Scopes obviously have changed over the years and BDC reticles were put into play which made it even simpler to shoot using the basic Kentucky windage style. Ive never had to change turrets on an animal a i went to bdc reticle and it took me to 600 without issue.

Old school duplex scope...sight it in 2-3"s high at a 100 and you dont have to think much out to 3-350 depending on your caliber etc. Ive got buddies that think waaaayyyy to much and have computers on their rifles and to me its hilarious! Takes the skill out of shooting and and becomes more about trigger control since the computer tells you what and how to hold and even windage! Although the new Revic scopes are pretty darn slick! Sorry to be so long with my first post here gents but good bunch of back and forth. Thanks
 
Old school 3 inches high at a 100 yards and your good to 300 yards. After that get closer or go to collage and figure all the other stuff out but that's not for me.
 

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