3A/3C Changes ELK

[callsalot]

I have been saving points for archery elk 3A/3C and have 15 points. I just saw in one of the magazines that they put in early rifle hunt in this unit so pushed the archery dates back later than the other archery hunts. Something like Sept 20th to Oct 3rd. And now it's taking like 17 point for a non res to draw instead of 16. My question is how do you think this will affect the unit? And should I just burn my points and go to unit 1,2b,2c since I have enough points for this year supposedly? I could have 17 next year since I haven't done my AZ hunters safety so I could get two points this year and be at 17 for 2020. Do I wait or do I go now with unit 1.
One other things to note is I have two close friends that have hunted 3A/3C so I would have more Intel than 1,2b,2c.
Thanks

 

[WABULLSnBUCKS]

In my opinion, and with the points you have, go with what unit you would really like to hunt. If you don't mind waiting another year then do it. Once your points are gone you don't want to look back a regret using them on a unit you didn't really want. I burned 20 points this year on a hunt and know that I'll never draw that unit again in my life so make it count.

 

[callsalot]

WABullsnBucks,

Appreciate your opinion on this. I know both a really good units and very close to the same ratings from the so called experts. So I'm torn but you bring up some good points. Good luck on your 20 points unit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[excaliber]

I wouldn't want to hunt archery after they had an early rifle hunt in there. I may be wrong but I think they rotate units every year to put the early rifle ahead of archery.

If you really want a 3C archery tag wait for next year. You've spent that many years waiting I'd wait for the best hunt possible.

 

[Captain_coues]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-27-18 AT 07:06PM (MST)[p]I had this tag in 2011. It was an early rifle with 20 points and it was my second choice. I feel this unit will have the best results for whatever hunt is first. If the early rifle is before the archery, go all in if a rifle hunt is what you're after. If the archery is first, pick another unit unless you're planning archery, then it's one of the best.

 

[callsalot]

For elk I pretty much just archery hunt. I guess my real question is how does Unit 1, 2a, 2b compare to 3a/3c. It's seems like they are rated pretty close so I'm wondering if 3a/3c is worth the one or two year wait since I don't want to hunt 3a/3c after rifle hunt this year and later when the bulls might be broken off.

 

[Captain_coues]

I'm closer to 3a/c so I spend more time in those units. I have friends that like 1 and they seem to do well. my opinion is that they are both about the same as far as trophies go. I would definitely stay away if the rifle guys have it first.

 

[callsalot]

Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. I guess I have a month to make up my mind.
I'll let you know.

 

[Flatlander]

I had the 3c archery tag in 2017 and hunted it for cows this year with my son.

Unit 1 and 3c are two very different elk hunting experiences. Unit 3c is covered in roads with very few remote places to get away from crowds. Almost all of the big bulls come in from the Rez to rut and return shortly after. The elk are pretty easy to locate and and almost every big bull will be known to many people. It has heavy rutting activity and large groups of cows. A lot of the unit is glassable and pretty easy walking. You can get vehicles to most any place you would shoot a bull. Even though there were lots of eyes on the elk, I never ran into another person once I left the road. But some mornings it was a dam caravan heading into the woods. The bull cow ratio here is very high and the second week of the hunt bulls start breaking fast. As far as bugling, this is a very reliable unit with pockets of insanity.

Unit 1 has areas that are easily accessible but also contains large areas of wilderness and some very remote areas. The unit has varied terrain from PJ flats and hills to large stands of high altitude fir and conifer forests. The highest points in the unit are 10k ft and the flats are probably less than 6k. There are elk everywhere in 1. The rut is usually strong here as well. Also, this is one part of the state where summer rains are pretty reliable. I haven't looked at the maps from this year but I would expect they got plenty. The downside is with 300 tags there are lots of folks around. That being said you can get away from folks once you hit the woods. There are enough elk to spread folks out. The rut is reliably good here also. For some reason bulls don't seem to break as bad in 1.

I say all this just to point out that after 15 years, you should go on the hunt you want. In my opinion chasing a trophy number may be less rewarding than going on the hunt you have been dreaming of.

Good luck, you have an awesome
adventure ahead.

 

[callsalot]

Flatlander. Thanks for such a detailed breakdown of the units. That is exactly the kind of information I was hoping for to help me with my decision. I have been fortunate enough to do a lot of elk hunting in my time and when in a good unit I enjoy trying to get a mature bull but am no trophy hunter. Sounds like unit 1 might be for me instead of waiting two years or so.
Again, I really appreciate the information.

 

[oilcan]

Flatlander so what are the elevations in 3C ?

 

[BOHNTR]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-18 AT 06:04AM (MST)[p]>Flatlander so what are the elevations
>in 3C ?

6600? to 7400? in most areas


BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[Flatlander]

LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-18 AT 12:05PM (MST)[p]Probably around 5500? to 7500?. The biggest thing is there are no alpine peaks. The elevation tends to change much more gradually.

 

[BOHNTR]

5500? in 3C?

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[Flatlander]

Well Clay Springs is like 6300? and I thought it kept dropping from there. I could be wrong, I was once before.

 

[BOHNTR]

Ha.....all good. I thought I was missing some areas to scout! . Neat country, but I prefer the scenery in 1 and 27 as well.

BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[Captain_coues]

This got me thinking about where the lowest elevation in the unit is. I would have to guess it's Dry Lake but that's in 3A. Maybe it's Phoenix Park Wash?

 

[Flatlander]

>This got me thinking about where
>the lowest elevation in the
>unit is. I would
>have to guess it's Dry
>Lake but that's in 3A.
> Maybe it's Phoenix Park
>Wash?

Maybe, it has to be somewhere out at the north end near the 277.

 

[callsalot]

I just heard that certain parts of New Mexico and Arizona are finally getting good snow. Is that true for unit 1 area as well and will is there enough to be optimistic about good antler growth this year or is it to early to tell?

 

[BOHNTR]

>I just heard that certain parts
>of New Mexico and Arizona
>are finally getting good snow.
>Is that true for unit
>1 area as well and
>will is there enough to
>be optimistic about good antler
>growth this year or is
>it to early to tell?
>

There?s good snowfall with more forecasted.....it's a great start.
BOHNTR )))---------->

 

[Flatlander]

Alpine definitely got some good snowfall this week. But I would also say that most people I talk to agree that early spring rains are the most important thing for antler growth.

 

[oilcan]

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-29-18
>AT 06:04?AM (MST)
>
>>Flatlander so what are the elevations
>>in 3C ?
>
>6600? to 7400? in most
>areas
>
>
>BOHNTR )))---------->

Thanks

 

[callsalot]

Do you think there is much trophy potential difference between
unit 1 and unit 3A/3C? Obviously there is some but is there a lot of difference or just a little?

 

[Flatlander]

Typically I would say both units have nearly equal opportunities at trophy elk although, it does seem that the last few years, the number of 360+ bulls coming from 3C has been less than I expected. This year I blame the drought. In 2017 I can't really say what it was, I know there were good bulls there, I personally hunted two different bulls over 365?. But there weren't a lot of those top end bulls killed that year. That was an intense rut year and the bulls broke really bad mid-hunt.

I don't know what was taken out of 1 the last two years nearly as well, but I am sure the drought affected that unit as well.

 

[callsalot]

Thanks for your thoughts Flatlander. From what I've heard so far I think I'll burn my points for Unit 1. I was holding out for 3a/3c but I would have to wait one to two more years and although 1 gives more tags it's sounds like a great hunt and then I can start accumulating points again. Appreciate every ones thoughts.

 

[Flatlander]

You won't regret it.

 

[oilcan]

I Archery hunted unit 1 several years ago it was a great Hunt with many opportunities.
I am back up to 10 points but as much as I'd like to hunt it again I'll probably try and draw a ?lesser? unit next year.

 

[Flatlander]

It might be worth a listen to Jay Scott's Podcast #521. He has Daniel Franco from Burnt Timber Outfitters on to talk about these units. Dan probably knows 3C better than anyone.

 

[BGbasbhat]

callsalot

I'm in the same position you are with 13 points and just noticed the other day that they flipped the rifle/bow hunt in 3a/3c. I hunted that unit with my dad a couple years ago for cow, and have a client who is very familiar with it. I second what the guys have said on about everything.

Was going to go for it with my points this year, but am also thinking otherwise now. A buddy killed a nice bull in 1 last year and has been trying to sell me on it too. Not sure if 9 is possible, but that would be a fun unit in the rut, since glassing isn't much there.

Thank you all for your input, and callsalot for asking the same questions I would!



"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."

 

[callsalot]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-19 AT 09:18AM (MST)[p]No worries, I have 15 Non Res point which according to last years statistics I should draw unit 1 archery unless a lot of folks change the units there putting in for. So I'm heavily leaning that way because I don't want to hunt after the rifle hunters and a later season where the bulls may be more broken off. I'm also hoping this year is a better moisture year for antler growth. So I think I'll switch from 3A/3C which I had been applying for and put in for Unit 1 and keep my fingers crossed.

 

[BGbasbhat]

I'm of the same mindset callsalot. Are you using any resources to help? Huntinfool, Epic, TopRut? Been listening/watching alot lately and trying to figure my best odds.

Good luck in the coming weeks and who knows, maybe we'll link up in September!


"...I'd rather be tried by twelve than carried by six..."

 

[callsalot]

BGBasbhat,

I used to use the Huntin Fool but when they sold out and the new owners expanded to topics like Africa and more exotic things that I'm not interested in I switch to Epic when they started which of course is still the Carter family that started the Huntin Fool.
Epic is really the only one I look at with the exception of Eastman's MRS section when the magazine comes out which I use to double check Epic. Between Huntin Fool and Epic over the years I've found them to be about 80 to 90% accurate but they do mess up every once in awhile in my opinion but the quick reference of draw odds is very handy.

Good luck this fall also!!

 

[Flatlander]

Guys I do all my own draw odds calculations. If you are interested in specific units I would be happy to provide you some data.

 

[callsalot]

Great, with 15 Non Res points do you think I should draw Unit 1 archery elk this year like Epic is saying?

 

[Live4MtnHunts]

The data I looked at would suggest you will have little/no chance at Unit 1 this year with 15 non-resident points. Only 1 non-resident drew with 15 or less this year and that was only because he was thrown in the resident draw due to a lifetime license (former resident). Non of the folks that had 15 points in 2018 were drawn last year and they will have 16 points this year. There were 15 1st choice apps and 5 2nd choice apps in that tier and only 15 tags go to the highest point holders. Several more people will jump in with 16+ points. That happens every year. As mentioned earlier, some of those tags can get pulled out of the pot at lower point levels so there may not even effectively be 15 tags to go after (see early comment). If I took a wild guess, I bet 1/2 or more of the folks that put in with 16 points don't draw 1 archery this year. Point creep has really gone nuts in AZ.

I was going to try and draw 1 this year with 17 points (had also been looking at 3c) but ended up booking a moose hunt in northern BC instead. Hopefully 2020 is the year for me.

Whatever you decide, good luck.

 

[callsalot]

Thanks for the info. I'll apply for 1 anyway. If you are correct I'm not sure why Epic said 15 points for unit 1 and 17 for 3a/3c but as you mentioned people shift around. Worse thing that can happen is I get another point as I have backup options lined up.
Appreciate the feedback though.

 

[fin little]

LAST EDITED ON Jan-04-19 AT 03:56PM (MST)[p]Toprut shows 20 nonres unit 1 archery elk applicants with 15 points in 2018. None drew unit 1 as 1st or 2nd choice in the bonus pool. They may have drawn random tags somewhere. I agree with above post , at least 16 to draw a bonus tag in 1 in 2019. Im in the 15 point limbo also.

 

[callsalot]

Well Darn, I guess I had the wrong info. Sounds like to get the tag I'll need to apply this year and get a point and then finally do my hunters ed to get another point and go into 2020 with 17points and see what I can do.

Good thing I have a backup plan!!

 

[buckmster28]

So I have 22 points and epic states unit 1 early rifle expect at least 22 points to draw so I am thinking of putting in. I haven't bought a top rut subscription but I know only 25% with 22 drew in 2017 so I would have to think it's going to take at least 23 now. Maybe someone with last years nimbers could shed some insight?

 

[fin little]

Unit 1 early muzz 2018. 5 put in with 22 and 2 drew. My guess those 3 that didn't draw will apply early 1 rife this year. Although 23 points gives a lot of options so who knows .