8,000 new applicants

Cozmo8

Active Member
Messages
638
Check out the Colo Recap reports for sheep and Mtn Goat. For RMBHS over 8000 new applicants, over 1200 for DBHS and 7500+ for Mtn Goat. Floored me when I saw the numbers
 
LAST EDITED ON May-14-18 AT 11:03PM (MST)[p]I might be reading the report wrong-- but for RBH in 2017 there were 17,739 first choice applicants and in 2018 there were 40,993. That is an increase of 23,254.

I wonder if those are mostly deer and elk hunters applying for RBH.
Hopefully the deer and elk draws don't see a similar increase....
 
That's a lot of new applicants. What's the reason do you think?

More applicants equals more money without impacting wildlife numbers. I'd imagine that every state would like everyone in the world to be sending in application fee's.

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
Pack out you are correct. I am a NR so i was focusing on that group and my numbers are approximate for the NRs.
 
>That's a lot of new applicants.
>What's the reason do you
>think?
>
>>
>Brian Latturner
>MonsterMuleys.com
>LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
>on Facebook!

Founder, it is because of the change this year to tiny application fee instead of having to pay the price of the tag when applying, as last year.

I'm sure that deer/elk/pronghorn apps will increase, a big jump on points required this year. Some who thought they had a lock when they applied, are going to be disappointed.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-18 AT 08:55AM (MST)[p]If you look at the 0,0 line on the preference point draw recap it shows there was less than 2k first time apps for points in 2017 for sheep, for 2018 there was 17k...

My 2 cents... you can thank hickenlooper for combining parks and rec with the dow, pulling all the sportsmans funds into a larger money sucking government agency, and they discover they need more revenue to support this larger bureaucracy, so lets modify the hunting application process and generate a couple million more dollars by charging the processing fee alone and require nonresident apps to get a small game hunting/fishing license... good on them for generating more revenue but I guarantee you will not see any significant improvement in the habitat or the hunting/fishing opportunities in Colorado- just more bureaucracy; it is more about growing a government program.

Better make the most of your chances in the next three years, because the flood is coming and the opportunities to draw a tag are going to get a lot slimmer.

Cheers- Dave
 
Exactly. I feel bad for all you youngsters who will have to put up with all this. I'm an old fart and ready to retire from hunting. I had a good run of over 60 years of elk hunting.

I'll just retire to fly fishing. Good luck guys.
 
Wyoming probably isn't too far behind on that move. Make it cheaper and easier to apply to increase income without effecting the product inventory. From a business side, it's a smart move.
People will continue to throw their $$$ in the lottery each year. That's been proven time and time again.
Better go hunting while you can.

Maybe someday more sportsmen will embrace lower success methods of hunting in order to decrease harvest success rate and increase opportunity. ????

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com
on Facebook!
 
If all the states do this then there are no "guaranteed" tags any longer. The CO deer tags you can draw with 0 points will now require upwards of 2-5 I'd guess. I think some of the applicants will give up on the draw and simply go out to wherever they'd like to hunt and poach deer. They'll justify it by saying the government is squeezing them out of their right to hunt. I don't think this will be the norm but it will be the mindset of many that are already on the fence about the need for a tag. We all may be waiting for years to hunt a crappy unit just because of the sheer number of applicants. It's sad...

Steve

Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good health for granted because it can be gone in a heartbeat. Please go back and read the last line. This time really understand what it says.
 
The silver lining is that hopefully the same people just putting in for points for three dollars likely won't pony up the charge when it comes to actually drawing a tag; but we will still see a significant bump in total apps overall skewering the odds. Sadly, I thought the odds were previously tolerable...now its gonna be terrible.

I figure some people will just wholesale give it up, figuring its not worth the aggravation.

Cheers- Dave
 
>If all the states do this
>then there are no "guaranteed"
>tags any longer. The CO
>deer tags you can draw
>with 0 points will now
>require upwards of 2-5 I'd
>guess. I think some of
>the applicants will give up
>on the draw and simply
>go out to wherever they'd
>like to hunt and poach
>deer. They'll justify it by
>saying the government is squeezing
>them out of their right
>to hunt. I don't think
>this will be the norm
>but it will be the
>mindset of many that are
>already on the fence about
>the need for a tag.
>We all may be waiting
>for years to hunt a
>crappy unit just because of
>the sheer number of applicants.
>It's sad...
>
>Steve
>
>Cancer doesn't discriminate...don't take your good
>health for granted because it
>can be gone in a
>heartbeat. Please go back and
>read the last line. This
>time really understand what it
>says.

I think you are on to something about the poachers.

Cheers- Dave
 
The more that I think about it the more I know i'm not ready to retire yet. I'll figure out a way to get tags.

We'll always have the leftover list and it might be bigger than ever. Some guys who easily put in for tags will back out when it comes to paying.

If Colorado gets too bad NR will go to other states. That works for me.
 
>If Colorado gets too bad NR
>will go to other states.
>That works for me.

It's $3 to apply, they aren't going anywhere, only multiplying!

#livelikezac
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-18 AT 08:39PM (MST)[p]If you don't draw the big 3 in the next 2yrs you may as well kiss it goodbye cause it ain't happenin after that!


#livelikezac
 
Wait till next year when those new applicants tell 2 friends, and the year after, and the year after......


#livelikezac
 
>If you don't draw the
>big 3 in the next
>3yrs you may as well
>kiss it goodbye cause it
>ain't happenin after that!
>
>
>#livelikezac


You are spot on.

The deer, elk and antelope apps should not increase much as there is no change.
Correct?
 
Same thing as sheep and goat just a $3 app fee and your names in the hat. They did us dirty!


#livelikezac
 
I don't expect the change to be as drastic for the other species for residents since the tags are much cheaper but non residents might see a pretty big jump. I could be wrong tho, time will tell
 
I always have an ace in the hole. Private land. There are some advantages to being a resident.
 
>I don't expect the change to
>be as drastic for the
>other species for residents since
>the tags are much cheaper
>but non residents might see
>a pretty big jump. I
>could be wrong tho, time
>will tell

And when they see how many more non-residents apply what do you think will happen to the non-resident license quotas?


#livelikezac
 
>I always have an ace in
>the hole. Private land. There
>are some advantages to being
>a resident.

Are non residents not allowed on private property with permission?


#livelikezac
 
>>I always have an ace in
>>the hole. Private land. There
>>are some advantages to being
>>a resident.
>
>Are non residents not allowed on
>private property with permission?
>
>
>#livelikezac

Not even other residents are allowed on the property I can hunt. He's my buddy and only allows me to hunt there. I've only used it once, but if tags get too hard to get i'll use it more.
 
>>>I always have an ace in
>>>the hole. Private land. There
>>>are some advantages to being
>>>a resident.
>>
>>Are non residents not allowed on
>>private property with permission?
>>
>>
>>#livelikezac
>
>Not even other residents are allowed
>on the property I can
>hunt. He's my buddy and
>only allows me to hunt
>there. I've only used it
>once, but if tags get
>too hard to get i'll
>use it more.


You still have to draw the tag and I'm betting your buddy doesn't own all of private property in that unit.

#livelikezac
 
>>>>I always have an ace in
>>>>the hole. Private land. There
>>>>are some advantages to being
>>>>a resident.
>>>
>>>Are non residents not allowed on
>>>private property with permission?
>>>
>>>
>>>#livelikezac
>>
>>Not even other residents are allowed
>>on the property I can
>>hunt. He's my buddy and
>>only allows me to hunt
>>there. I've only used it
>>once, but if tags get
>>too hard to get i'll
>>use it more.
>
>
>You still have to draw the
>tag and I'm betting your
>buddy doesn't own all of
>private property in that unit.
>
>
>#livelikezac

Yes, it's a draw but goes to 4th choice most every year. So, even as a 2nd pick it's pretty safe and i'll get a point if I fail at the 1st pick.

Of course, that could change with the new system but I can't see it changing enough that I won't get the tag. Hell, i'll take it as a 1st pick if I have to.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-15-18 AT 10:17PM (MST)[p]Looks like nonresidents applying for Rocky Mountain sheep went up almost 4X, 3566 in 17 to 13166 in 18.
 
I'v seen DW posts about the draw for awhile now and have agreed all along that this is going to be the mess it has become, two years to draw out before the flood gates open up on sheep, goat, moose.

Its hard to see this happen before our very eyes, but its coming, only thing that can help out the guys that have been in it for the long haul will be to square the weighted points like Nevada does. I'm at 3-8 now, if they squared my points I would be at 3-64 + my app for next year, not great but might help the guys way beyond me. I don't know if CPW would look into implementing something similar to the draw system but something needs to be added/changed to help out those that have waited patently for many years.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-18 AT 06:28AM (MST)[p]
Nmbighorn I feel like I'm outside the playground of the school for the deaf watching an f5 tornado bear down on the school grounds and I'm screaming my head off for the kids to take cover but they just keep playin on the jungle gym cause they can't hear me! In a month, when the numbers for elk deer and antelope come out, the tornado will rip apart the school and shred the playground! Even founder was curious why there were so many new applicants?!!


#livelikezac
 
Just wait for moose to come out!!!
Welcome to the new 3$ raffle.
35 years for sheep.
33? For moose. Can't remember year of first moose tags 1985? 1987?..I have never missed a moose app.
40993 applied for sheep this year...about 300 drew. NEVER in a life time for MOST. Simple math.
 
>I'v seen DW posts about the
>draw for awhile now and
>have agreed all along that
>this is going to be
>the mess it has become,
>two years to draw out
>before the flood gates open
>up on sheep, goat, moose.
>
>
>Its hard to see this happen
>before our very eyes, but
>its coming, only thing that
>can help out the guys
>that have been in it
>for the long haul will
>be to square the weighted
>points like Nevada does. I'm
>at 3-8 now, if they
>squared my points I would


>be at 3-64 + my
>app for next year, not
>great but might help the
>guys way beyond me. I
>don't know if CPW would
>look into implementing something similar
>to the draw system but
>something needs to be added/changed
>to help out those that
>have waited patently for many
>years.

You need to look at several years of the Recap report. If you are a NR the more points you had did not necessarily mean you were closer to drawing a tag based on the way the system is set up. With a boat load a points in a unit with fewer? applicants yes you had a better chance. In units with a lot of applicants you really are not much better off. So your 3 plus 8 does not Put you in a very good position to drAw without all of the new applicants this year. In a few years yes your position is compromised even more.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-18 AT 09:41AM (MST)[p]>>I'v seen DW posts about the
>>draw for awhile now and
>>have agreed all along that
>>this is going to be
>>the mess it has become,
>>two years to draw out
>>before the flood gates open
>>up on sheep, goat, moose.
>>
>>
>>Its hard to see this happen
>>before our very eyes, but
>>its coming, only thing that
>>can help out the guys
>>that have been in it
>>for the long haul will
>>be to square the weighted
>>points like Nevada does. I'm
>>at 3-8 now, if they
>>squared my points I would
>
>
>>be at 3-64 + my
>>app for next year, not
>>great but might help the
>>guys way beyond me. I
>>don't know if CPW would
>>look into implementing something similar
>>to the draw system but
>>something needs to be added/changed
>>to help out those that
>>have waited patently for many
>>years.
>
>You need to look at several
>years of the Recap report.
> If you are a
>NR the more points you
>had did not necessarily mean
>you were closer to drawing
>a tag based on the
>way the system is set
>up. With a boat
>load a points in a
>unit with fewer? applicants yes
>you had a better chance.
> In units with a
>lot of applicants you really
>are not much better off.
> So your 3
>plus 8 does not Put
>you in a very good
>position to drAw without all
>of the new applicants this
>year. In a few
>years yes your position is
>compromised even more.

I think you missed his point cozmo. If Game and Parks wood Square the weighted points of those of us who have been in prior to this change it would give us some what of an advantage over the flood of new applicants. In a sense throwing a bone to those of us who've been feeding them all these years rather than chewing our legs off!


#livelikezac
 
This whole thing has me so disgusted and frustrated that I am going to have to go on a mental vacation from it. Seriously, this shows that parks and rec have moved completely to the big agency mentality where you are truly viewed as a resource to fund their mere existence. In the past, it didn't seem so apparent, but this should make it crystal clear to everyone.

Cheers- Dave
 
Yes, and if you ask them they'll tell you the idea behind the new system is nothing more than making them more money. They don't care squat about us.
 
>This whole thing has me so
>disgusted and frustrated that I
>am going to have to
>go on a mental vacation
>from it. Seriously, this
>shows that parks and rec
>have moved completely to the
>big agency mentality where you
>are truly viewed as a
>resource to fund their mere
>existence. In the past,
>it didn't seem so apparent,
>but this should make it
>crystal clear to everyone.
>
>Cheers- Dave

Right there with ya!

#livelikezac
 
>Let's see what happens next year
>when it goes to $10
>application fee.

I'm guessin minimal impact.

#livelikezac
 
>DW what Goat and sheep hunts
>did you apply for this
>year

Rifle tags.


#livelikezac
 
Application fees will be going up next year. Some folks will be pushing for $50+ per species (at least for Sheep/Goat/Moose). I would highly encourage those of you who feel like the rug just got pulled out from under you to get on board with something like this. CPW is going to get the money they wanted from the fee increase that didn't get passed one way or another. They are now holding your dream of getting these rare licenses hostage by effectively making your years of applying moot. Let's just admit that they won, pony up the money and continue to dream of a tag with poor odds versus impossible odds.
 
>Application fees will be going up
>next year. Some folks
>will be pushing for $50+
>per species (at least for
>Sheep/Goat/Moose). I would highly
>encourage those of you who
>feel like the rug just
>got pulled out from under
>you to get on board
>with something like this.
>CPW is going to get
>the money they wanted from
>the fee increase that didn't
>get passed one way or
>another. They are now
>holding your dream of getting
>these rare licenses hostage by
>effectively making your years of
>applying moot. Let's just
>admit that they won, pony
>up the money and continue
>to dream of a tag
>with poor odds versus impossible
>odds.

That about sums it up.


#livelikezac
 
>>DW what Goat and sheep hunts
>>did you apply for this
>>year
>
>Rifle tags.
>
>
>#livelikezac


Units?
 
>Application fees will be going up
>next year. Some folks
>will be pushing for $50+
>per species (at least for
>Sheep/Goat/Moose). I would highly
>encourage those of you who
>feel like the rug just
>got pulled out from under
>you to get on board
>with something like this.
>CPW is going to get
>the money they wanted from
>the fee increase that didn't
>get passed one way or
>another. They are now
>holding your dream of getting
>these rare licenses hostage by
>effectively making your years of
>applying moot. Let's just
>admit that they won, pony
>up the money and continue
>to dream of a tag
>with poor odds versus impossible
>odds.

It sounds like none of you were in the max deer pool in Az when they changed a few years ago. That calloused me to all of this and should have been a major wake up call.
 
I guess I'm not following your point. I am fully aware of the change in AZ as it impacted my many years of waiting for a great elk tag. How are my comments demonstrating a lack of awareness or understanding specific to the AZ issue where folks who had applied for years will have to wait longer for the tag they had been applying for (best case) or may never draw that tag (worse case)?
 
>Application fees will be going up
>next year. Some folks
>will be pushing for $50+
>per species (at least for
>Sheep/Goat/Moose). I would highly
>encourage those of you who
>feel like the rug just
>got pulled out from under
>you to get on board
>with something like this.
>CPW is going to get
>the money they wanted from
>the fee increase that didn't
>get passed one way or
>another. They are now
>holding your dream of getting
>these rare licenses hostage by
>effectively making your years of
>applying moot. Let's just
>admit that they won, pony
>up the money and continue
>to dream of a tag
>with poor odds versus impossible
>odds.

I read somewhere elk/deer tags are only going up $8.00 for residents. That won't help much if we can't get the tags.
 
>>Application fees will be going up
>>next year. Some folks
>>will be pushing for $50+
>>per species (at least for
>>Sheep/Goat/Moose). I would highly
>>encourage those of you who
>>feel like the rug just
>>got pulled out from under
>>you to get on board
>>with something like this.
>>CPW is going to get
>>the money they wanted from
>>the fee increase that didn't
>>get passed one way or
>>another. They are now
>>holding your dream of getting
>>these rare licenses hostage by
>>effectively making your years of
>>applying moot. Let's just
>>admit that they won, pony
>>up the money and continue
>>to dream of a tag
>>with poor odds versus impossible
>>odds.
>
>I read somewhere elk/deer tags are
>only going up $8.00 for
>residents. That won't help much
>if we can't get the
>tags.

$8 for an elk tag, $5 for a deer,antelope, bear tag, $10/ for an app fee, $25 for a sheep, moose, or goat tag, $15 for a habitat stamp.....hand over fist I tell ya!


#livelikezac
 
Maybe that would work- let the 20K+ new applicants get "vested" for two years. Then when they are finally eligible to draw- jack the fees up to WY PP levels. Windfall for DOW.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-16-18 AT 07:42PM (MST)[p]> Maybe that would
>work- let the 20K+ new
>applicants get "vested" for two
>years. Then when they
>are finally eligible to draw-
>jack the fees up to
>WY PP levels.
>Windfall for DOW.

I'm sure that's already in the back of some Game and Park persons mind.


#livelikezac
 
And Colorado's fishing sucks too so alternatives are getting limited.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
>WY let a $7 point fee
>for sheep roll for enough
>to hook the fish, then
>raised it to $100. MT
>did it similarly.

How many years ya figure we got?


#livelikezac
 
>And Colorado's fishing sucks too so
>alternatives are getting limited.
>
>"Courage is being scared to death
>but
>saddling up anyway."

Fishing sucks? Where do you fish?
 
It would be nice to see what each state G&F spends each year overall and on each species. That way you could compair states to the quality of hunting they offer.
Bill
 
NW Colorado. Limited options unless all ya want trout.

We find ourselves fishing more in Utah theae days.

"Courage is being scared to death but
saddling up anyway."
 
Yup! I'm a fly fisherman. Trout it is.

We have a lot of lakes with good fishing for other species.
 
I see the game and fish making a lot of money off preference point fees this year. You pay it UNLESS you bought an annual or big game license last year. I suspect they will likely increase application fees and charge for preference points for sheep and goat in the coming years. 23k new sheep applicants with 19k doing points only, that's a lot of revenue. The 8k new nonresidents who applied are going to pay a lot of money with no real chance of ever drawing a ram tag. CPW has to make it's own money somehow, and no matter how angry you are, you're part of the problem if you piss and moan about $46 elk tags, $250 sheep and mtn goat tags, and deer and antelope tags that cost less than a tank of gas.
 
No gruff. I don't piss and moan for paying $49 for an elk tag. I piss and moan when I can't get that tag because so many NR apply for that tag because they don't have to put up the money anymore.
 
>I suspect they will likely
>increase application fees and charge
>for preference points for sheep
>and goat in the coming
>years. 23k new sheep applicants
>with 19k doing points only,
>that's a lot of revenue.

The first 3 yrs is points only by default as that's all you're eligible for.


#livelikezac
 
>No gruff. I don't piss and
>moan for paying $49 for
>an elk tag. I piss
>and moan when I can't
>get that tag because so
>many NR apply for that
>tag because they don't have
>to put up the money
>anymore.


Muley, just curious but how does a Non Resident putting in for a tag affect you in any way shape or form?

They are in a separate drawing pool than you. Residents have their pool of tags, and Non residents get a much smaller pool that is completely separate from the residents pool.

I've seen you bring this up a couple times now. so how is a Non resident hurting you in any way.


Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
458738e374dfcb10.jpg
 
>>No gruff. I don't piss and
>>moan for paying $49 for
>>an elk tag. I piss
>>and moan when I can't
>>get that tag because so
>>many NR apply for that
>>tag because they don't have
>>to put up the money
>>anymore.
>
>
>Muley, just curious but how does
>a Non Resident putting in
>for a tag affect you
>in any way shape or
>form?
>
>They are in a separate drawing
>pool than you. Residents
>have their pool of tags,
>and Non residents get a
>much smaller pool that is
>completely separate from the residents
>pool.
>
>I've seen you bring this up
>a couple times now.
>so how is a Non
>resident hurting you in any
>way.
>
>
>Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING
>Page on Facebook.
>
458738e374dfcb10.jpg


I might be wrong on this. What happens if NR don't apply for all the tags available for them? Do they go to residents?

Keep in mind I don't apply for easy hunting tags because I never have any points. I hunt every year and use any I might get which would just be one point.

I'll know right away how the new system affects the tags I put in for. I'll know soon.
 
>The first 3 yrs is points
>only by default as that's
>all you're eligible for.
>
>
>#livelikezac


You can still apply for tags those 3 years, even though you aren't likely to draw anything, but 80% of new applicants didn't. And currently you don't pay for sheep or goat points (the $40 per species fee that people will get hit with for the other species).
 
The Future Generations Act that passed this year allows CPW to increase the application fee, but it is capped at $10 for residents and $20 for non-residents.
 
>The Future Generations Act that passed
>this year allows CPW to
>increase the application fee, but
>it is capped at $10
>for residents and $20 for
>non-residents.

Yep. Book it! Sooner rather than later I'm sure!

#livelikezac
 
LAST EDITED ON May-20-18 AT 06:35AM (MST)[p]
31726065036_79bf4240ea_t.jpg

My current situation precludes me from caring about your opinion but go ahead and give voice to it anyway...

I find it amazing that this surprises anyone.

What percentage of policy decisions made by the DOW do not in some way increase money flow into their coffers? If there is a rare hit they make up for it immediately in another area.

re-proportionality of funds? of course, but no cuts.

And just because the APPLICATION FEES are capped does not preclude an implementation of a preference point fee. These people are stupid but not that stupid, they have all day to figure this ##### out rather than working to enhance animal well being.
 
LAST EDITED ON May-20-18 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]>No gruff. I don't piss and
>moan for paying $49 for
>an elk tag. I piss
>and moan when I can't
>get that tag because so
>many NR apply for that
>tag because they don't have
>to put up the money
>anymore.

The number of NR applicants doesn't affect your odds Muley. We have a hard CAP at 20% or 35% which I am sure is already met in all but very easy to draw units. For example, in the unit I put in for to draw a muzzy tag, NRs take 3 points to draw (4 years!) but residents can draw with o points.

We can get less than the 20 or 35% cap, never more, unless the unit is undersubscribed.

So with more NR tags, our odds will get worse, but not yours. If 10,000 new NRs put in this year, it doesn't increase the NRs tags at all. Our odds go down but yours doesn't. The only way yours get worse is by more residents putting in.


txhunter58

venor, ergo sum (I hunt, therefore I am)
 
I could see a day when they raise this to $50 or $60+ like WY despite the license requirement. just a money grab to cash in on hostage point holders.
 

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