90/10 not going away...

[BuzzH]

It’s sad you care less about business welfare in small town communities. The next time you need gas at one of their stations maybe you’ll be thankful they are there and don’t lock you out!

Moose not goat my mistake.

I'll pack fuel in 5 gallon cans if they go broke because hunters aren't fueling vehicles for 45 days a year during hunting season.

Its sad that businesses that contribute NOTHING to wildlife have any say in anything to do with tag allocations.

 

[elks96]

Just offering advice and recommendations on what going to a bonus pt system would do to Wyo res (plus nonres) that have a pile of sheep and goat pref pts.

Hopefully decisions made aren’t at the expense of nonres hunters that are the bread and butter for the WG&F….and Wyo small business owners! I think the WG&F would agree that nonres views are fairly important since 70% of their license revenue comes from nonres?

My hope is that many of the small business owners across Wyo wake up to the financial revenue loss they will have with 90/10 in already tough financial times!

The same thing is true here in Colo where small business owners retaliate every time nonres quota reductions are brought up. That’s the main reason that nonres limited tag quotas in Colo are the highest in the entire Western US!

This resident is 100% in favor of the bonus points but would prefer to go one step further and completely random.

The only people no wanting to go to bonus are only the very top holders. Funny thing, most guys here understand that points don't mean crap if you cant live long enough to use them.

Bonus points are a good move for our current system and random is the best for all the rest.

 

[highfastflyer]

Perhaps a compromise might be a system where 1/3 are preference points, 1/3 are bonus points and 1/3 are Random……

 

[jims]

Buzz, what you mentioned about bringing 5 gal cans and probably groceries so you don’t support local small town communities ties in nicely with the fact that nonres flying and driving to Wyo have no choice to stop and buy gas and likely pick up groceries, gear, etc that supports small towns. I'm sure a lot of Wyo res do the same thing you mentioned and buy gas and groceries from the larger towns where they live so don't support local small towns. The fact is, Wyo res buy groceries regardless of whether they hunt or not.

I’m the opposite and am grateful to resident small town business owners that live in isolated towns that are willing to stick it out through tough economic times and offer gas and services to hunters that travel long distances to hunt! Hopefully these resident business owners (that likely hunt) stand up and voice their opinions against 90/10.

The fact is, 90/10 offers minimal additional limited tags to Wyo res and carries so many long-term negative impacts! I don't think a lot of Wyo res realize that with 90/10 they're draw odds aren't suddenly going to significantly improve and they will not draw high demand tags any more often. Yes there are a few additional limited tags. There aren't that many total nonres tags currently issued in most limited units.

It will significantly impact WG&F license revenue, small town community revenue, trickle-down affect in Wyo's boom and bust economy, and cut nonres tags in 1/2. 90/10 impacts every nonres and will require 2x more years for every nonres to draw the same tags. You can bet there will be more and more nonres that drop out of the draws as draw odds and pref pts leap. There will be fewer nonres willing to start applying and paying for pref pt fees.....which is an even more significant long-term financial loss to the WG&F.

Yep, you are absolutely right that as a nonres I could stand back and watch this happen. I sincerely care for what is happening to DIY/OYO nonres hunters across the Western US! Our hunting heritage as we know it is slowly but surely slipping away.

 

[newhunter]

What is the most active/biggest animal rights organization in Wyoming ?? It appears I may have $400/$500 dollars a year that Wyoming residents no longer want/will receive. Probable more. It seemed to work well for Wild Earth Guardians, SW Environmental Center and Coyote Project in New Mexico.

 

[mulecreek]

What is the most active/biggest animal rights organization in Wyoming ?? It appears I may have $400/$500 dollars a year that Wyoming residents no longer want/will receive. Probable more. It seemed to work well for Wild Earth Guardians, SW Environmental Center and Coyote Project in New Mexico.

Wyoming Untrapped should be right up your alley. Go get em! I’m assuming you won’t give them a dime. Prove me wrong

 

[BuzzH]

What is the most active/biggest animal rights organization in Wyoming ?? It appears I may have $400/$500 dollars a year that Wyoming residents no longer want/will receive. Probable more. It seemed to work well for Wild Earth Guardians, SW Environmental Center and Coyote Project in New Mexico.

You can make that check out to me...I promise I won't spend it in Wyoming. I hunt and fish 4 states or more a year. I don't complain about their nr allocations and have a great time. Let me know and I'll get you my address.

 

[newguy]

Wyoming points for sheep and moose are the biggest waste of money in western hunting IMHO. 2500 people bought there first sheep point last year, I wonder if they realize how many people are ahead of them, under the current system the really have no chance of ever using them. Even if they changed to bonus points the odds of drawing a tag would be so small you would be better off putting the hundred bucks on a roulette wheel and trying to hit a number twice then use the money to buy a sheep hunt. Good for Wyoming for convincing people to spend their money I guess, to bad for the people getting fleeced. Glad I never got sucked in.

Mark

 

[BuzzH]

Wyoming points for sheep and moose are the biggest waste of money in western hunting IMHO. 2500 people bought there first sheep point last year, I wonder if they realize how many people are ahead of them, under the current system the really have no chance of ever using them. Even if they changed to bonus points the odds of drawing a tag would be so small you would be better off putting the hundred bucks on a roulette wheel and trying to hit a number twice then use the money to buy a sheep hunt. Good for Wyoming for convincing people to spend their money I guess, to bad for the people getting fleeced. Glad I never got sucked in.

Mark

Good don't apply...sounds like you never did anyway. Thanks for crying...I mean trying.

 

[newguy]

Good don't apply...sounds like you never did anyway. Thanks for crying...I mean trying.

Always so tactful with your responses. Wasn’t crying just stating what I thought, do you disagree with what I stated?

Mark

 

[BuzzH]

Always so tactful with your responses. Wasn’t crying just stating what I thought, do you disagree with what I stated?

Mark

Yes, I do....

 

[BuzzH]

You know how long I've heard "you'll never draw" and for how long?

Ever since I started applying for tags.

I didn't believe that chit then, still don't believe it now.

Just sayin'...

 

[BuzzH]

 

[BuzzH]

 

[BuzzH]

My buddy's 3rd ox tag...THATS IMPOSSIBLE, yes, if you don't apply (same friend drew MT sheep and Idaho raffle sheep tag as well):

Don't waste your time applying for sheep in MT:

 

[newguy]

Buzz

Great animals congrats, do you apply in all states for all species or do you think that some odds are too small for the amount of money they cost? I always to at least some degree weigh the odds of drawing with thee cost before deciding if I apply. I notably don’t buy points for sheep and moose in Wyoming because the chance of using them doesn’t justify the cost, in my eyes. Obviously everyone else can make their own decisions just trying to add some content to the thread.

Funny when I read this from one of your posts I thought you would have been in agreement

“Take the money you save by not applying for sheep this year and buying a point...buy chances at the trifecta and/or sheep raffle tags.

Probably better odds and you don't have to buy a point.”

Thanks for the interaction,

Mark

 

[BuzzH]

Waste of time applying for AZ elk, drawn 4 donated one to a young lady with cancer:

 

[BuzzH]

Montana breaks tags are just too hard to draw, don't apply:

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz

Great animals congrats, do you apply in all states for all species or do you think that some odds are too small for the amount of money they cost? I always to at least some degree weigh the odds of drawing with thee cost before deciding if I apply. I notably don’t buy points for sheep and moose in Wyoming because the chance of using them doesn’t justify the cost, in my eyes. Obviously everyone else can make their own decisions just trying to add some content to the thread.

Funny when I read this from one of your posts I thought you would have been in agreement

“Take the money you save by not applying for sheep this year and buying a point...buy chances at the trifecta and/or sheep raffle tags.

Probably better odds and you don't have to buy a point.”

Thanks for the interaction,

Mark

I apply for lots of tags in particular if I want to hunt a certain place or animal.

Complain about the price of applying for desert sheep...go look what it costs to buy one...40-50K.

I could apply for the next 20 years for nearly every limited tag for every species and never spend what that would cost.

Try buying a goat hunt, Montana Governors sheep tag, hell, even a decent landowner elk tag...mule deer tag, even pronghorn.

Cry me a river on the cost to apply.

Have fun whining about the cost to apply, counting your money and trying to over-think where to spend every penny.

I'll see you on the mountain...oh, wait, probably not because the odds of drawing sucked.

 

[newguy]

Again I don’t think I am crying any rivers about anything, just stating that I don’t think that the price of points for nonresident sheep and moose, along with the very slim chance of ever using them, justifies purchasing them so I don’t. My question to you is if you were a nonresident starting at zero would you be purchasing sheep and moose points in Wyoming? One last time I am not crying about anything just making a point, so no need to criticize me,

Mark,

 

[newhunter]

You can make that check out to me...I promise I won't spend it in Wyoming. I hunt and fish 4 states or more a year. I don't complain about their nr allocations and have a great time. Let me know and I'll get you my address.

Never offered you my money Buzz.
I didn't "complain about nr allocation" (Your interpretation)
Just offering this community a different way to spend the money they were sending to Wyoming. One that will have more value.

I too hunt at least 4 states every year (5 last year) and at least to Countries. Fish many states and Countries. I don't talk about it much. I'm not into bragging. I could post my pictures of ALL the same animals you posted and many more. I just don't have that big of an ego.

Wyoming can have nonresidents working with them, drop off or working against them. It's up to us.

 

[newhunter]

Wyoming Untrapped should be right up your alley. Go get em! I’m assuming you won’t give them a dime. Prove me wrong

Not sure if you are challenging me to send my money to support anti Wyoming organizations or to send you proof that I have ??
I won't be proving anything, do feel the need.

 

[WapitiBob]

Again I don’t think I am crying any rivers about anything, just stating that I don’t think that the price of points for nonresident sheep and moose, along with the very slim chance of ever using them, justifies purchasing them so I don’t. My question to you is if you were a nonresident starting at zero would you be purchasing sheep and moose points in Wyoming? One last time I am not crying about anything just making a point, so no need to criticize me,

Mark,

I'm not Buzz but in my opinion nobody starting today should be buying WY sheep and moose points but, they certainly should be applying if those are species they want to hunt.

 

[BuzzH]

Never offered you my money Buzz.
I didn't "complain about nr allocation" (Your interpretation)
Just offering this community a different way to spend the money they were sending to Wyoming. One that will have more value.

I too hunt at least 4 states every year (5 last year) and at least to Countries. Fish many states and Countries. I don't talk about it much. I'm not into bragging. I could post my pictures of ALL the same animals you posted and many more. I just don't have that big of an ego.

Wyoming can have nonresidents working with them, drop off or working against them. It's up to us.

If you're hunting all those animals, yeah right, I can assure you that you would not be whining about Wyoming. You'd be cutting checks as fast as you could write them. Fact.

 

[LivingTheDream]

If they move to bonus points it is probably worth it. Especially if they square them, just more times your name goes into the hat.

 

[newhunter]

If you're hunting all those animals, yeah right, I can assure you that you would not be whining about Wyoming. You'd be cutting checks as fast as you could write them. Fact.

Haven't whinned once.
I will still apply. Just won't be sending a $150 per point.
Frees that money up to send to other organizations.
That's been my point.

 

[newhunter]

If they move to bonus points it is probably worth it. Especially if they square them, just more times your name goes into the hat.

In my many years of experience with bonus points. They have much less value than preference points to all except thoughts with very low points (under about 5) Even if squared. Look at the states with bonus points they charge about $15/$20 per point, not $150.

 

[WapitiBob]

The value in Bonus Points is the weighted advantage the higher point pools have in the random side. I'll take 5 numbers in the random side vs one any day.

 

[jims]

Buzz, all your “good ole days” photos are exactly what I’m talking about. Those days are pretty much going away for our youth to hunt as a nonres! How many youth just starting out as nonres will have even close to the same opportunity you’ve had in your hunting career?

Buzz, please think beyond yourself for a 2nd and all of the critters you've harvested over the years. Just think of what a young kid growing up in KS or Iowa's opportunities are like today and even 10 years from now? It's pretty sad to see that our younger generation won't have the same opportunities we had growing up.

Every one of us have seen how many big game animals you shoot each year in Wyo as a resident with all your annual photos that are posted. There doesn’t appear to be any lack of opportunity each year for Wyo res with its current quotas?

Cutting 1/2 of the tags from EVERY nonres with 90/10 sure dashes the hopes of a lot of young nonres hunters across the nation and likely puts a handful of tags in Wyo res pockets. Ask yourself....is it really worth all the negative impacts with 90/10?

Screw nonres and res small town business owners right Buzz?

 

[newhunter]

The value in Bonus Points is the weighted advantage the higher point pools have in the random side. I'll take 5 numbers in the random side vs one any day.

Sounds good. Doesn't work well in real life. Many people in many states with 20/25 squared bonus points that haven't been able to draw. 20 points X $150 = $3000. and still not drawn. High cost Low value to me.

 

[WapitiBob]

It's still the random side, but they do have an advantage over the guy with 2 points.
The max any WY NR could have paid for sheep points was about $2,000 the last time I calculated it, and had they applied, they'd have drawn.

 

[jm77]

Look at the states with bonus points they charge about $15/$20 per point, not $150.

That might be what some points cost, but that's not the whole cost to a NR who applies in those states.

20 points X $150 = $3000. and still not drawn. High cost Low value to me.

Your total on PP cost is incorrect, because you didn't pay $150 for all your points.

 

[newhunter]

No mathematical advantage, just more random chance. (number assigned each point) Max WY nr paid $6 per point for many years. (value) Max sheep points in Wy now 27. If a new hunter pays $150 (todays price with no increases) 27 points is $4050 and still my not be drawn. High cost Low value. This is happening in bonus point states right now.

 

[LivingTheDream]

In my many years of experience with bonus points. They have much less value than preference points to all except thoughts with very low points (under about 5) Even if squared. Look at the states with bonus points they charge about $15/$20 per point, not $150.

I agree preference points have more value, but someone starting now 25 points behind isnt going to make up that gap so bonus points might be more valuable...maybe. I agree they aren't usually 150 but I think Wyoming should charge what people are willing to pay.

But if you have less than 20 points, you are rooting for bonus points...or just going straight random but they would lose too much point money.

 

[WapitiBob]

UT and AZ are bonus point states, neither charge over $15 for a point.

 

[newhunter]

The value in Bonus Points is the weighted advantage the higher point pools have in the random side. I'll take 5 numbers in the random side vs one any day.

Okay. Is it worth $150 ??

 

[newhunter]

That might be what some points cost, but that's not the whole cost to a NR who applies in those states.

Your total on PP cost is incorrect, because you didn't pay $150 for all your points.

Wyoming charges $150 per point each year for sheep and moose.
Am I missing something?

 

[newhunter]

UT and AZ are bonus point states, neither charge over $15 for a point.

That is my point. There isn't a good value in Wyoming for a $150 bonus point.

 

[newhunter]

I agree preference points have more value, but someone starting now 25 points behind isnt going to make up that gap so bonus points might be more valuable...maybe. I agree they aren't usually 150 but I think Wyoming should charge what people are willing to pay.

But if you have less than 20 points, you are rooting for bonus points...or just going straight random but they would lose too much point money.

I agree.
Preference points are now leaving out new hunters, bonus points do not work well, especially at $150. They will charge what they can. Wyoming has made a mess. Go back to no points. But Wyoming can't afford that. There is better value other places.

 

[WapitiBob]

The value in Bonus Points is the weighted advantage the higher point pools have in the random side. I'll take 5 numbers in the random side vs one any day.

and you said: "Sounds good. Doesn't work well in real life."


In UT and AZ it does work that way in real life. We've already agreed WY points at $150, starting out today, are not a wise expense.

 

[newhunter]

Okay. I get it.
AZ, UT, WA, NV, OR, bonus points work ok.
Because of there low cost, not as well in the states that have you by a license, but they have more tags with bonus points to help spread the average cost.
I thought we where talking about Wyoming.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, all your “good ole days” photos are exactly what I’m talking about. Those days are pretty much going away for our youth to hunt as a nonres! How many youth just starting out as nonres will have even close to the same opportunity you’ve had in your hunting career?

Buzz, please think beyond yourself for a 2nd and all of the critters you've harvested over the years. Just think of what a young kid growing up in KS or Iowa's opportunities are like today and even 10 years from now? It's pretty sad to see that our younger generation won't have the same opportunities we had growing up.

Every one of us have seen how many big game animals you shoot each year in Wyo as a resident with all your annual photos that are posted. There doesn’t appear to be any lack of opportunity each year for Wyo res with its current quotas?

Cutting 1/2 of the tags from EVERY nonres with 90/10 sure dashes the hopes of a lot of young nonres hunters across the nation and likely puts a handful of tags in Wyo res pockets. Ask yourself....is it really worth all the negative impacts with 90/10?

Screw nonres and res small town business owners right Buzz?

WTF are you mumbling about?

Grow up Sebastian, any Father that isn't taking his kids hunting...yeah, that's on the "parent of the year".

My nephews are stone cold killers, and they leave all kind of opportunity on the table.

Uncle Buzz helps them out with tags, fees, rifles, does their handloading for them.

Maybe instead of always worrying about yourself and bilking an unsuspecting WY NR hunter out of their points, you should concentrate on taking your youth hunters out...

Call CPS, these poor kids have no opportunity...

Laffin'.

 

[BuzzH]

 

[BuzzH]

 

[BuzzH]

More child abuse...

 

[WapitiBob]

OR has preference points and a 75/25 split like WY Elk/Deer/Antelope.

 

[lostinOregon]

Show us some more of your hunting pics Buzz, you are awesome!!!!!!!

Rich

 

[highfastflyer]

If Wyoming is such a bad value, explain it to Randy……..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EdgtVzGAd8

 

[newhunter]

If Wyoming is such a bad value, explain it to Randy……..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EdgtVzGAd8

Have you read anything I have stated on this thread?
I have only been talking about the switch from preference to bonus point for sheep and moose. Bad value. I'm using my money to support other organizations that offer a better value. The Randy Newburg you tube video is about elk, deer and antelope. Apples and oranges.

 

[highfastflyer]

Have you read anything I have stated on this thread?
I have only been talking about the switch from preference to bonus point for sheep and moose. Bad value. I'm using my money to support other organizations that offer a better value. The Randy Newburg you tube video is about elk, deer and antelope. Apples and oranges.

Yeah, Wyoming is very bad value and screwing NR for sheep. That’s why they issue more Sheep and Moose tags than any other state in the lower 48 and more Moose tags than all the other states combined. Such a bad value. In 2018 they issued 50 NR sheep tags. Even Randy needs to learn that bad value..…

 

[LivingTheDream]

Yeah, Wyoming is very bad value and screwing NR for sheep. That’s why they issue more Sheep and Moose tags than any other state in the lower 48 and more Moose tags than all the other states combined. Such a bad value. In 2018 they issued 50 NR sheep tags. Even Randy needs to learn that bad value..…

They issued 50 tags at 75/25...that will be closer to 20 to 25 tags under 90/10. So the value changes a bit.

 

[highfastflyer]

They issued 50 tags at 75/25...that will be closer to 20 to 25 tags under 90/10. So the value changes a bit.

It won’t happen for a few years and that 25% is far more than any other state.
Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, Idaho, Colorado and Utah allot just 10% of their bighorn sheep tags to non residents. Why are we so liberal?

It's not only sheep. Mountain Goat is by regulation, a once-in-a-lifetime hunt for Wyoming residents, but still every year we give 25% of our available mountain goat licenses to nonresidents! Every other western state gives nonresidents just 10% of the available mountain goat tags.

Wyoming allots 20% of it's moose and pronghorn tags to nonresidents. Idaho and Montana offer only 10%, and New Mexico, just 6% for do-it-yourself hunters.

 

[highfastflyer]

What is the most active/biggest animal rights organization in Wyoming ?? It appears I may have $400/$500 dollars a year that Wyoming residents no longer want/will receive. Probable more. It seemed to work well for Wild Earth Guardians, SW Environmental Center and Coyote Project in New Mexico.

Try this one. Seems like your style……

 

[jm77]

Wyoming charges $150 per point each year for sheep and moose.
Am I missing something?

Yes you are. You don't have to buy a hunting license in order to buy points in Wyoming. But you knew that being such a worldly hunter.

 

[LivingTheDream]

It won’t happen for a few years and that 25% is far more than any other state.
Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, Idaho, Colorado and Utah allot just 10% of their bighorn sheep tags to non residents. Why are we so liberal?

It's not only sheep. Mountain Goat is by regulation, a once-in-a-lifetime hunt for Wyoming residents, but still every year we give 25% of our available mountain goat licenses to nonresidents! Every other western state gives nonresidents just 10% of the available mountain goat tags.

Wyoming allots 20% of it's moose and pronghorn tags to nonresidents. Idaho and Montana offer only 10%, and New Mexico, just 6% for do-it-yourself hunters.

I understand the numbers and the point you are making. I was just saying that today you give out 50 sheep tags, to your point that is changing to be more aligned to other states. That's fine.

However, you can't say there is the same value in the preference points when tags are being cut 60% and they could be changing to bonus points. I do think Wyoming should charge 150 for bonus points, they dont require a license and people have shown time and time again they will pay it. Alberta/BC bighorn hunts are 40 to 60k, a bighorn sheep is a valuable resource. And Wyoming owes it to that resource and its residents to maximize it.

If any western state with a bonus point system said for one week we will sell anyone up to 20 points for 150 a point...hundreds of people, maybe thousands would do it. That is just the state of sheep hunting in the US. I'm not going to argue with supply and demand.

Moose and Mountain goat are not far behind. I think somone just paid 50k for a Colorado mountain goat Governors tag. I wouldnt pay that even if I was rich but people do.

 

[BuzzH]

Show us some more of your hunting pics Buzz, you are awesome!!!!!!!

Rich

Don't want to horn you up too much...

But just because, I know you really appreciate the photo's so much.

First elk, a long time ago, oh and the odds sucked to draw a cow permit back then in Montana:

Odds improved over the years, my 80th elk, shot on the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor 2021:

Was a great day, my friend JM77 shot one out of the same herd.

 

[jims]

Buzz, nice to see all the young, smiling faces behind the does and cows! Unfortunately does and cows aren't what we are talking about with 90/10 taking limited tags away from nonres. Just think, with 90/10 half of the pics with bucks and bulls would be taken directly away from nonres....many of which are nonres youth.

Buzz, do you have any more photos to share?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, nice to see all the young, smiling faces behind the does and cows! Unfortunately does and cows aren't what we are talking about with 90/10 taking limited tags away from nonres. Just think, with 90/10 half of the pics with bucks and bulls would be taken directly away from nonres....many of which are nonres youth.

Buzz, do you have any more photos to share?

Oh, so youth isn't really the issue...it's you not being able to shoot bucks and bulls. That's what you're really worried about, youth hunters are just the false flag.

Got it...btw I thought you said youth have no opportunity?

I bet the only time you've applied with a youth hunter was to use the youth hunters points so you could draw another tag.

Oh, and there's an easy fix to your concern over NR youth tag availability in Wyoming. How about of the 10% of the available NR LQ tags, we make half of them youth only?

95-5-5 with a full 5% going to NR youth only.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, do you have any more photos to share?

I have 78 more elk photo's of the one's I've shot...

 

[lostinOregon]

Don't want to horn you up too much...

But just because, I know you really appreciate the photo's so much.

First elk, a long time ago, oh and the odds sucked to draw a cow permit back then in Montana:

View attachment 65279

Odds improved over the years, my 80th elk, shot on the 80th anniversary of Pearl Harbor 2021:

View attachment 65280

Was a great day, my friend JM77 shot one out of the same herd.

Good comeback Buzz, made me laugh

 

[junior]

Who's the big bad hunter now!! Buzz keeps those pictures ready to roll at all times! Even though they are photo shopped!

 

[jims]

High demand, limited buck and bull tags, moose, sheep, goat, grizz, and mtn goat are what we all are talking about with 90/10. Doe and cow tags have nothing to do with it. Buzz, you can twist and turn my comments as much as you want. Yes Buzz, your nonres youth relatives chance for drawing limited tags will suddenly be cut in 1/2 and take twice as long to draw with 90/10. What happens once the nonres kids in your photos above grow up and have kids that possibly don't live in Wyo? Do you think their nonres kids will have the same opportunity to shoot high demand limited tag bucks and bulls as their parents in those photos....heck no! Their hopes of ever having the opportunity to hunt sheep, goat, and moose in Wyo will be slashed and they will likely draw very few limited elk, deer, and antelope tags! Do you think their parents are willing to fork out $150/year to apply for sheep and moose after 1/2 the nonres tags are cut? To top this off, the WG&F will lose millions in nonres pref pt revenue as fewer and fewer nonres youth and new hunters starting out apply for limited tags each successive year. Think about it...what happens 20 years from now to the WG&F budget after 90/10 is started?

Yep, I am all in favor of youth opportunity in Wyo. I think it would be great if a % of Wyo res and nonres tags were issued to youth.....especially nonres youth! Obviously there are so few limited tags issued to nonres without 90/10 that even 50% of the current quotas would be 0 so this wouldn't work cutting into the nonres quotas?

I am everything but selfish Buzz. Have you ever seen me push to cut nonres tags in Colo even though Colo offers the highest nonres opportunity for elk, deer, and antelope in the entire West? If 90/10 ever happens in Wyo you can bet that this will prompt Colo and other states across the country to follow suite. Have you heard of the domino affect? Well, that's exactly what will happen in Colo and elsewhere. Mark my word, I will raise the same battle to save nonres tags in Colo....even though I am a resident there!

Buzz, you've had a lot of opportunity to hunt big game across the Western US and Wyo over your lifetime...God knows everyone has seen your photos! We all pat you on your back for letting us know you harvested your 80ths elk.

I certainly hope Wyo doesn't screw opportunity for nonres youth in the future with 90/10 for limited big game tags! I think it's great seeing nonres youth's smiling faces behind bucks and bulls in Wyo. Hopefully that continues!

 

[newhunter]

78 elk and still thinks he should receive a larger part of the tags.

 

[newhunter]

Yeah, Wyoming is very bad value and screwing NR for sheep. That’s why they issue more Sheep and Moose tags than any other state in the lower 48 and more Moose tags than all the other states combined. Such a bad value. In 2018 they issued 50 NR sheep tags. Even Randy needs to learn that bad value..…

Wyoming is changing there system to one that is a bad value.
Wyoming is not "screwing the NR". Charge what the market will bare. Don't like spend the money somewhere else.
You are confusing Quantity tags with value. And using what will be outdated numbers to prove your point. (living in the past)
Your Randy Newburg (hero) example is based on the outdate system, not the one being proposed.

 

[newhunter]

"Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, Idaho, Colorado and Utah allot just 10% of their bighorn sheep tags to non residents. Why are we so liberal?"

There are other places that offer a larger percentage than 10 for sheep and goat. Lower quantity but at a better value.
Nevada, New Mexico, Montana, Colorado are offering a much better value

 

[newhunter]

Yes you are. You don't have to buy a hunting license in order to buy points in Wyoming. But you knew that being such a worldly hunter.

The other states that require you to buy a hunting license also allow you to purchase points for up to 5 species. At $15/20. Better value.
There are states that offer sheep tags and bonus points that don't require licenses.
Better value.
All I'm saying is there are is better places to spend our $150 on sheep tags.

 

[jm77]

There are other places that offer a larger percentage than 10 for sheep and goat. Lower quantity but at a better value.

Please name those states. In fact name the states that offer a full 10% of sheep and goat tags to NR. (there might be one)

There are states that offer sheep tags and bonus points that don't require licenses.

Would also be interested to know these states.

 

[highfastflyer]

Wyoming is changing there system to one that is a bad value.
Wyoming is not "screwing the NR". Charge what the market will bare. Don't like spend the money somewhere else.
You are confusing Quantity tags with value. And using what will be outdated numbers to prove your point. (living in the past)
Your Randy Newburg (hero) example is based on the outdate system, not the one being proposed.

Don’t like the value, don’t apply, tens of thousands still will continue to recognize even a 60% cut is still a great value and opportunity. BTW, don’t let the door hit you in the arse as your points waste away, while the rest of us Residents plan out our sheep hunting adventure.

 

[newhunter]

Don’t like the value, don’t apply, tens of thousands still will continue to recognize even a 60% cut is still a great value and opportunity. BTW, don’t let the door hit you in the arse as your points waste away, while the rest of us Residents plan out sheep hunting adventure.

That's what I said I was going to do, way back at the beginning of my posts. Did you read? I was also offering other people options I believe are better.

 

[highfastflyer]

That's what I said I was going to do, way back at the beginning of my posts. Did you read? I was also offering other people options I believe are better.

Remembering what you posted not one of your strong suits I see.

”Haven't whinned once.
I will still apply.”

Please don’t, just go away. Your like the kid with the stinky diaper. Your stinky and messy arse is showing and we try to Ignore it or hope your mommy fixes the problem so that wretched stench will just go away………

 

[newhunter]

Please name those states. In fact name the states that offer a full 10% of sheep and goat tags to NR. (there might be one)

Would also be interested to know these states.

Really don't like to tell everyone where to apply, but since I opened my mouth. Washinton state offers nonresidents up to 100 percent of sheep tags and does not require at license up front. Washington has great sheep hunting, not as many sheep but better quality. A Pennsylvania hunter harvested a 202 4/8 ram in 2020. I'm not going to name them all, public info. Perhaps you should do more research and less calling bullship. Educate yourself.

 

[newhunter]

Remembering what you posted not one of your strong suits I see.

”Haven't whinned once.
I will still apply.”

Please don’t, just go away. Your like the kid with the stinky diaper. Your stinky and messy arse is showing and we try to Ignore it or hope your mommy fixes the problem so that wretched stench will just go away………

Interesting the you only quoted part of my post. Leaving out the whole statement is being less than honest. Here the entire quote.
"
Haven't whinned once.
I will still apply. Just won't be sending a $150 per point.
Frees that money up to send to other organizations.
That's been my point."

So I think your wrong about. "Remembering what you posted not one of your strong suits" It appears you don't remember or are just miss quoting.

I will apply, but won't pay for a point. Don't like the value.

Thank you for asking so nicely for me to stay here.
"Please don’t, just go away."

 

[highfastflyer]

Interesting the you only quoted part of my post. Leaving out the whole statement is being less than honest. Here the entire quote.
"
Haven't whinned once.
I will still apply. Just won't be sending a $150 per point.
Frees that money up to send to other organizations.
That's been my point."

So I think your wrong about. "Remembering what you posted not one of your strong suits" It appears you don't remember or are just miss quoting.

I will apply, but won't pay for a point. Don't like the value.

Thank you for asking so nicely for me to stay here.
"Please don’t, just go away."

My reply, “Don’t like the value, don’t apply”

Your answer, “That's what I said I was going to do, way back at the beginning of my posts. Did you read?”

Your previous post, “
Haven't whinned once.
I will still apply.”

Its still stinky around here, is your mommy around to take you away. I rest my case……

 

[newhunter]

So you don't understand my statement ?

"Haven't whinned once.
I will still apply. Just won't be sending a $150 per point.
Frees that money up to send to other organizations.
That's been my point."

Or you don't understand my statement ?
"That's what I said I was going to do, way back at the beginning of my posts. Did you read? I was also offering other people options I believe are better."

So please read this.
I will apply. I will not buy a point. Not worth the cost.
I will send me money to someone else. I hope you understand.

I have no case to rest.
Just options to share on a blog.

 

[highfastflyer]

So you don't understand my statement ?

 

[jm77]

Really don't like to tell everyone where to apply, but since I opened my mouth. Washinton state offers nonresidents up to 100 percent of sheep tags and does not require at license up front. Washington has great sheep hunting, not as many sheep but better quality. A Pennsylvania hunter harvested a 202 4/8 ram in 2020. I'm not going to name them all, public info. Perhaps you should do more research and less calling bullship. Educate yourself.

You're the one who needs educating. Like I said there "might be one" that offers at least 10% to NR, but you have to buy a special hunt application for each species in Washington state. The value you get there for the odds of drawing is very low.

 

[newhunter]

You're the one who needs educating. Like I said there "might be one" that offers at least 10% to NR, but you have to buy a special hunt application for each species in Washington state. The value you get there for the odds of drawing is very low.

Okay. We disagree.
Washington cost are lower, the quality is better than Wyoming. Has the weighted bonus point system you like. And when Wyoming's new system is in place the odds of draw will be closer for non residents. The odds of non residents in AZ, NV, NM, UT. (all places you talked about earlier) have terrible draw odds, especially if you consider the non resident cap in these states, yet the cost/value will be better than Wyoming at $150 per bonus point.

Yes you did state there "might be one" after you told me "yes" I was missing something, when I said there were places that were less expensive than Wyoming's proposed new system.

 

[BuzzH]

High demand, limited buck and bull tags, moose, sheep, goat, grizz, and mtn goat are what we all are talking about with 90/10. Doe and cow tags have nothing to do with it. Buzz, you can twist and turn my comments as much as you want. Yes Buzz, your nonres youth relatives chance for drawing limited tags will suddenly be cut in 1/2 and take twice as long to draw with 90/10. What happens once the nonres kids in your photos above grow up and have kids that possibly don't live in Wyo? Do you think their nonres kids will have the same opportunity to shoot high demand limited tag bucks and bulls as their parents in those photos....heck no! Their hopes of ever having the opportunity to hunt sheep, goat, and moose in Wyo will be slashed and they will likely draw very few limited elk, deer, and antelope tags! Do you think their parents are willing to fork out $150/year to apply for sheep and moose after 1/2 the nonres tags are cut? To top this off, the WG&F will lose millions in nonres pref pt revenue as fewer and fewer nonres youth and new hunters starting out apply for limited tags each successive year. Think about it...what happens 20 years from now to the WG&F budget after 90/10 is started?

Yep, I am all in favor of youth opportunity in Wyo. I think it would be great if a % of Wyo res and nonres tags were issued to youth.....especially nonres youth! Obviously there are so few limited tags issued to nonres without 90/10 that even 50% of the current quotas would be 0 so this wouldn't work cutting into the nonres quotas?

I am everything but selfish Buzz. Have you ever seen me push to cut nonres tags in Colo even though Colo offers the highest nonres opportunity for elk, deer, and antelope in the entire West? If 90/10 ever happens in Wyo you can bet that this will prompt Colo and other states across the country to follow suite. Have you heard of the domino affect? Well, that's exactly what will happen in Colo and elsewhere. Mark my word, I will raise the same battle to save nonres tags in Colo....even though I am a resident there!

Buzz, you've had a lot of opportunity to hunt big game across the Western US and Wyo over your lifetime...God knows everyone has seen your photos! We all pat you on your back for letting us know you harvested your 80ths elk.

I certainly hope Wyo doesn't screw opportunity for nonres youth in the future with 90/10 for limited big game tags! I think it's great seeing nonres youth's smiling faces behind bucks and bulls in Wyo. Hopefully that continues!

Youth hunters should focus on hunting the states they are residents in first.

Every state has many youth opportunities, early waterfowl season, youth only tags, early start dates, etc. etc. etc.

Hunting as a NR is purely a luxury, youth or otherwise. New and Youth hunters should examine drawing odds in States they aren't residents in and take the opportunities they can with the few points they have.

Question Sebastian, when you party app with an unsuspecting NR hunter, and all of a sudden you now have 5-6-7 points in an average situation...how bad did you feel that you screwed a NR youth out of a tag? A tag they could have drawn with their limited points, you know the people you skipped over to selfishly get another tag for yourself?

Anyone with a single firing brain cell knows you have NONE, ZERO concern for youth hunters. Your actions speak louder than your words, by a landslide, at a minimum. The only reason 90-10 concerns you is because it will impact YOU.

Also, don't disregard the fact that RESIDENT youth of Wyoming will have greatly improved odds of drawing tags under 90-10. That is what Wyoming Residents need to focus on, OUR youth hunters come first.

Finally, I would have responded to your foolishness sooner, but with no elk tags left (filled all 3 tags already)...the fish needed some attention. Have to put that lifetime WY Resident fishing license to use:

 

[hunt30]

It’s probably inevitable that Wyoming goes to 90/10 for the Big 5 sometime between now and eternity, but it seems to me that if I would have started putting in for Wyoming sheep the first time Buzz promised 90/10 was imminent, I would have drawn atleast 2 sheep tags by now.

 

[jm77]

It’s probably inevitable that Wyoming goes to 90/10 for the Big 5 sometime between now and eternity, but it seems to me that if I would have started putting in for Wyoming sheep the first time Buzz promised 90/10 was imminent, I would have drawn atleast 2 sheep tags by now.

2016 was the first 90/10 bill. If you can draw 2 sheep tags in 5 years we need 95/5.

 

[jims]

Buzz said, "Youth hunters should focus on hunting the states they are residents in first."

How about all the nonres youth relatives in your photos? How about telling them to "stay out of Wyo and concentrate on hunting in their own state?" While you are at it, tell your relative youth hunters that you are lobbying for 90/10 and their chance and their future nonres kid's chances for ever drawing Wyo sheep, moose, and other high demand limited tags as a nonres will be cut in 1/2 with 90/10! I can only imagine the look on their faces!

To answer your question Buzz, I haven't taken opportunity away from youth applying with others. In fact, this year and a pile of other years I've shared hunts with youth in Wyo! There are quite a few father-sons that have gone home with smiling faces hunting with me!

I could say the same thing that "you have ZERO-NO CONCERN for youth hunters!" 90/10 takes opportunity away from every nonres youth across the entire US at the expense of a very limited # of tags offered to a select few Wyo res. The big game hunting heritage as we know it is slowly but surely dying with the loss of opportunity for youth to hunt big game species that aren't present in their own states.

As we all know, draw odds for Wyo res youth aren't suddenly going to dramatically improve with 90/10....there are so few tags that would transfer to res. Yes, there will be a handful of Wyo res youth that draw these tags but there are a pile of nonres across the entire US that hopes will be shattered with 90/10...your youth relatives included!

 

[DonVathome]

I heard this proposal got shot down recently?

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz said, "Youth hunters should focus on hunting the states they are residents in first."

How about all the nonres youth relatives in your photos? How about telling them to "stay out of Wyo and concentrate on hunting in their own state?" While you are at it, tell your relative youth hunters that you are lobbying for 90/10 and their chance and their future nonres kid's chances for ever drawing Wyo sheep, moose, and other high demand limited tags as a nonres will be cut in 1/2 with 90/10! I can only imagine the look on their faces!

To answer your question Buzz, I haven't taken opportunity away from youth applying with others. In fact, this year and a pile of other years I've shared hunts with youth in Wyo! There are quite a few father-sons that have gone home with smiling faces hunting with me!

I could say the same thing that "you have ZERO-NO CONCERN for youth hunters!" 90/10 takes opportunity away from every nonres youth across the entire US at the expense of a very limited # of tags offered to a select few Wyo res. The big game hunting heritage as we know it is slowly but surely dying with the loss of opportunity for youth to hunt big game species that aren't present in their own states.

As we all know, draw odds for Wyo res youth aren't suddenly going to dramatically improve with 90/10....there are so few tags that would transfer to res. Yes, there will be a handful of Wyo res youth that draw these tags but there are a pile of nonres across the entire US that hopes will be shattered with 90/10...your youth relatives included!

Both of my nephews are smart, disciplined, and understand that as nrs they are hunting here in Wyoming as guests. They realize nr hunters in Montana are treated way worse, limiting nrs to "up to 10%" of all limited quota tags. So, they are happy to hunt any opportunities they have in the state they live in as well as being grateful with whatever opportunity other states give them. They focus on what they can do in the state they live in...and just take whatever opportunity they may luck out on in other states.

Plus, I would imagine both will have the $$$ to hunt where they want, for what they want. I've explained to them both that if they want to hunt the best, skip applying with the masses. They can still apply with the schmucks, but to do it right, get high paying jobs and buy hunts.

Both are going to inherit half of our estate, which will give them 7 figure inheritances each. I hope they spend every penny on hunting and fishing adventures. Beats listening to a broke dude from Colorado whining about tag costs and tag allocations...while scheming how to bilk another nr out of preference points. If I had to do slimy stuff like that to draw a tag, I'd rather take up golf...

 

[newhunter]

I heard this proposal got shot down recently?

Where did you hear this ?

 

[AZNATIVE98]

UT and AZ are bonus point states, neither charge over $15 for a point.

In order to get that $15 NR point you have to purchase a $160 license so technically that bonus point is going to cost a NR $175 a year

 

[BuzzH]

Where did you hear this ?

Fantasyland.

 

[newhunter]

In order to get that $15 NR point you have to purchase a $160 license so technically that bonus point is going to cost a NR $175 a year

Correct. But completely not accurate.
You only need to buy a hunting license ($72. not 160) every other year to apply in Utha. And if you pay for all 7 specis. ($15 each) Cost come down. Half of the $72 license (every other year)$36.+$105 (7x$15.) $141. That makes each point cost $20.14
A bargain. Terrible draw odds.
Arizona is $160 license and $15 per point. If you buy all 4 big game points it's $240. Making each point cost $55.
Both Utha and Arizona are much cheaper that a proposed $150 sheep bonus point in Wyoming.

But if you are only buying one specie you are correct about Arizona only.

 

[nfh]

Wow!!! I just remembered why i support 90/10. After reading the non residents post and sense of entitlement is why i support 90/10.

 

[newhunter]

Wow!!! I just remembered why i support 90/10. After reading the non residents post and sense of entitlement is why i support 90/10.

As a non resident of Wyoming I believe the ONLY thing I'm entitled to is who I send my money to.
I can work with Wyoming, be neutral or work against Wyoming.

 

[BuzzH]

Correct. But completely not accurate.
You only need to buy a hunting license ($72. not 160) every other year to apply in Utha. And if you pay for all 7 specis. ($15 each) Cost come down. Half of the $72 license (every other year)$36.+$105 (7x$15.) $141. That makes each point cost $20.14
A bargain. Terrible draw odds.
Arizona is $160 license and $15 per point. If you buy all 4 big game points it's $240. Making each point cost $55.
Both Utha and Arizona are much cheaper that a proposed $150 sheep bonus point in Wyoming.

But if you are only buying one specie you are correct about Arizona only.

Don't apply in Wyoming. Your application won't be missed.

 

[newhunter]

Don't apply in Wyoming. Your application won't be missed.

I have already told you.
I will apply. Will not buy a bonus point.
Not a good value.
I will send that money to different kind of organization.
Sharing my option with the rest of the blog community.

 

[WapitiBob]

I’ve spanned 2 years with an Az license since it went to 365 days.

 

[newhunter]

I’ve spanned 2 years with an Az license since it went to 365 days.

Good to know. Hadn't thought of that. It would about timing ??

 

[junior]

Not sure how that works when applying for all species.

 

[AZNATIVE98]

I’ve spanned 2 years with an Az license since it went to 365 days.

The regs say you have to have a valid license on deadline day, so lets say you purchased your license on February 8th that license will now expire on the 7th of 2023 and next years deadline will be on the 14th so I don't see how you will get two elk draw out of 1 license.

 

[DH56]

I'll be in Wyoming this fall once again and will enjoy my time there. It's about positive attitude and persistence and I have plenty of both. Changes won't affect me. I'll also be in Colorado at some point, and possibly Wisconsin and Iowa for Big Whitetails. I have plenty of time available. ?

 

[WapitiBob]

Works every year till the season kicks back, then you start over.

 

[jims]

Buzz, your youth relatives are lucky to live in a state like Montana that offer lots of big game options. Your relatives are also lucky to have wealthy relatives like yourself that have big $ to donate to hunting/fishing once they are older. There are youth across the United States that aren't as fortunate! I am certainly thankful for the opportunity Wyo has offered me and others I have shared great hunts with over the years.

The doors are slowly but surely closing on nonres youth opportunity across the Western US! Wyo can stand up and change this trend! I am thinking past my lifetime and what things are going to be like for nonres youth 20+ years from now.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz, your youth relatives are lucky to live in a state like Montana that offer lots of big game options. Your relatives are also lucky to have wealthy relatives like yourself that have big $ to donate to hunting/fishing once they are older. There are youth across the United States that aren't as fortunate! I am certainly thankful for the opportunity Wyo has offered me and others I have shared great hunts with over the years.

The doors are slowly but surely closing on nonres youth opportunity across the Western US! Wyo can stand up and change this trend! I am thinking past my lifetime and what things are going to be like for nonres youth 20+ years from now.

Hunting was fine before you were born, and I'll let you in on a news flash, it will be fine once you're worm chit.

You've done very little to help, that I've seen, other than help yourself to others points and scheming ways to get another tag. Same old thing with you, can't wait to see where/who you beg for points from this year. If you really cared about youth hunters you would wait your turn instead of pushing them to the curb every year.

Wish my nephews lived closer, they would have enjoyed MLK day today here in Wyoming...I know I sure did:

Biggest male cutthroat I can recall catching, 22 inches:

Two quick fish...all of 5 minutes apart:

Don't have to have points or even draw a tag...these must be the good old days...

 

[SS!]

Fantasyland.

Hey I think I heard of this place. It’s where jims supports all those non resident businesses the one week a year he’s there.