An Honest question

[Tristate]

Okydoky,

I don't want to hijack another thread so I am putting this here. So there are some people who disagree with the UDWR's decision to raise NR hunting fees. Many keep bringing up their observation that the General units are full of 2 point deer. They seem very dissatisfied with the trophy quality and they blame the DWR.

Here's my question. So who shot all the bigger and presumably more mature deer?

Hunters made this situation. Did the DWR sell tags for those deer? You bet. But hunters went out and massacred the deer. Some disease didn't spring up that kills every buck but the 2 points. The way it looks is there is a bunch of greedy killers who couldn't tell themselves don't shoot young bucks and now they are complaining that the deer hunting isn't worth the money anymore.

How do you teach multiple generations how to pass deer and raise their standards? How do you fix the problem of greedy hunters who think if they have a tag they have to put a bullet in something? Can most hunters self regulate their own passions?

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

It all starts with education. which some people on here need more of to say the least.

But being serious in your question. Anyone I hunt with or talk hunting with in my circle of buddies we all pass on two points and have standards of three point or bigger during the archery season for sure. Depending on if we have the dedicated tag for that year depends on what we shoot. Last day of the rifle hunt two point walks out sorry little guy I want deer meat. That is my ultimate goal for the hunt is meat, but I will hunt throughout the seasons and try to take a older deer and save the little guys for next year.

Now some people will say make it so it is a three or bigger, or even four point or bigger so the little guys don't get killer their first year out and about. To be honest would it work? Maybe, but I will bet that there will be more than the normal number of poached/ illegally harvested deer and left to waste.

I say why not lets try it for a year on a handful of units, see how things go and go from there. OBVIOUSLY things can go very bad and deer get shot and left but there is the chance that it could be beneficial and be a system that works in some areas.

 

[yoteduster]

That's a problem I don't think will get fixed..go to about any wild game processor on the first or second day of the general rifle season you'll see a bunch of two pointers hanging and the hunters who killed them standing around b#tching there are no decent bucks anymore DUH..I like telling them they ought to wipe the milk off the poor baby's lips befor they bring them in..it really p#sses some of them off..it is a big problem if you like hunting mature bucks

 

[Elkslayer]

Utah gives out more buck tags than what's actually available to hunt, let alone kill it seems. They bank that on a percentage of hunter's that won't fill their tag.

 

[Tristate]

I understand what Utah does, and you ask anyone on here and they will tell you that I am for changing that system. However Utah didn't kill the deer. These hunters that say it isn't worth it anymore killed the deer.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Tri!

UDWR Allowed TARDS & NON-TARDS To Kill The Deer Herd!

If They Allow it!

It's gonna Happen!

There's Enough PISSCUTTER POUNDERS to Destroy what's left!

Another EXAMPLE:

The Government Handed Out STIMULUS Checks recently!

Did the People Cash them Checks?

It Must Be the Peoples Fault The Government is Broke?

 

[elkassassin]

There Ain't a Unit/Area in the State That Won't Produce Quality Animals When Managed Properly!

Back in the Day there Was Big Bucks Taken all around the State!

Yes,There Were Areas better than others!

But Look at us now!

There's 50+ Reasons Why!

Until TARDS Realize that, it'll only get Worse!

You've Heard Me Say it for Years!

Was I Wrong?

 

[Tristate]

"If They Allow it!

It's gonna Happen!"

I believe that Elk. What I am trying to get my head around is the guys that would complain about it. Ultimately the responsibility rests on the hunter to pull or not pull the trigger.

We have similar fable that gets told here in Texas.

Guy hunts a small property. Sees a 2 year old 8 point with great potential. He slays the buck. When asked why he killed the buck by his friend he says if he wouldn't have shot it his neighbor would have. Then he complains that he needs to look for a better lease to get on because the deer around there can't get mature. THE HUNTER NEVER REALIZES THE PROBLEM IS HIMSELF.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Tri!

Until You Understand Average TARD Mentality!

We Are Dealing with the Same thing here:

"""I Filled My Tag!""" (A TARDS BRAGGIN Rights!)

"""He's Only a Forked Horn,But He's got a Big Body!""" (Phony F'N Excuse just to Kill Something!)

"""I Needed the Meat!""" (150,000.00 worth of Hunting Gear,a Few Weeks off of Work,But BY GAWD,I Got 40 lbs of Meat!)

 

[elkassassin]

One More Thing Tri!

The Average Youngster Hunters wouldn't Know a Trophy from a PISSCUTTER!

There Are Exceptions!

And You'll see them on this Site!

Problem is:

We are Out-Numbered by the Other Kind!

The Deer Herd in this State is in BIG F'N TROUBLE!

Let's Just Keep Hunting them to Death!

 

[slamdunk]

I understand what Utah does, and you ask anyone on here and they will tell you that I am for changing that system. However Utah didn't kill the deer. These hunters that say it isn't worth it anymore killed the deer.

Although I agree with your initial post, I have to disagree with this particular one that I am replying to.

You are trying to lump the MM'ers in with "The Problem" because this is what you read over and over again.

The people who complain about quality probably make up less than 25% of a hundred thousand deer hunters in Utah, and most of us actively voice it and stand up against it in some form or another.

The other 75k hunters would kill yearling bucks and not really care otherwise, nor do they make posts on hunting sites about it which obviously you cannot read.

You are right about "Utah kills all those bucks", absolutely correct, but to say it is the one's who complain and voice opposition as the problem is simply false.

 

[rmanwill]

Have not shot a 2 point in years. Even my 3 sons have stopped shooting 2 points just to fill a tag. We put enough bigger/mature bucks or elk in the freezer, we don't need to fill every tag just because we were issued one. Heck most years we only fill one of four buck tags, because we all hold out for a mature buck. We usually get one good one a year. Sometimes a couple.

Enjoy hunting and being out in the outdoors to much to kill just any buck on the first day or two. Not to mention then caring for the meat in the September heat - Muzzleloader hunt.

Everyone to their own. It is their right if they purchase the tag. Experience, age and teaching, hopefully makes most ethical hunters.

 

[Foreman4x4]

Can't eat horns, even the Bobcat knows that.

 

[ThrowingLead]

The DWR is doing what they can to try and manage and protect our deer and elk herds. We’ve got to do our part as well. I think most hunters will tell themselves that a buck is a lot bigger than it really is whether that’s due to a buck fever or lack of knowledge or lack of killing. A few times a year you’ll always get a picture from somebody that says look at this awesome 28 incher I killed! but you know darn good and well that it’s only a 22 inch 4 x 4 that might go 160 and they’re calling It 180
I think if people actually knew what they were shooting at, it would help reduce the 2 to 3-year-old bucks from getting killed and we’d see more mature deer.


Then you’ll be hear from the other people that’ll argue and say I’m not a trophy Hunter, and that’s fine. stop putting in for a buck tag and going out and shooting all the two points and apply for antlerless permits.

 

[Mr_Lahey]

What a stupid thread.

Try hasn’t been in any internet arguments on MM in a while so he starts this thread so he can argue with strangers about something he knows nothing about and doesn’t concern him.

 

[ThrowingLead]

Can't eat horns, even the Bobcat knows that.

put in for antlerless hunts and save a buck from being killed. It’s just about as hard to draw a general season deer permit now as it is to draw a cow elk permit

 

[Foreman4x4]

Killing a doe means two less deer in the spring. What if one of those fawns was meant to be the next Buck of Justice?

 

[ThrowingLead]

Killing a doe means two less deer in the spring. What if one of those fawns was meant to be the next Buck of Justice?

But that two-point that someone shoots is one less buck that next fall. We could argue the differences between the discussion. If you’re looking to fill the freezer there’s plenty of other hunting opportunities to go get meat you don’t have to just go shoot a buck.

 

[c3]

You know what one of the finest delicacies in the world is? Two point buck mixed with 18% pork shoulder, diced green olives all mixed perfectly and roasted over a cherry wood fire. Ain't no monster muley ever being soooo tender and delicious. Sorry, ain't a trophy deer hunter and never will be.

Cutting deer tags to suit some of your fancies ain't ever bringing back more deer. Just fueling the value of our herd for the wealth hunter. None of all that has anything to do with me !!!

Cheers, Pete

 

[Foreman4x4]

Utah should try three-point or better units.

 

[rmanwill]

Trial cams, long and multiple seasons running numeerous months, everyone thinking they are a guide, long range rifles and high tech scopes and piles of apples are a big problem to the reduction of mature bucks.

Tough for them to even make it past 2 1/2 years old anymore.

 

[ThrowingLead]

You know what one of the finest delicacies in the world is? Two point buck mixed with 18% pork shoulder, diced green olives all mixed perfectly and roasted over a cherry wood fire. Ain't no monster muley ever being soooo tender and delicious. Sorry, ain't a trophy deer hunter and never will be.

Cutting deer tags to suit some of your fancies ain't ever bringing back more deer. Just fueling the value of our herd for the wealth hunter. None of all that has anything to do with me !!!

Cheers, Pete

Does the recipe call for a two point buck or can you add doe meat to it?

 

[middlefork]

While I'll disagree with Slams numbers I will agree with his post.
I don't care what state you want to name there is a small number of vocal people from every state who participate on these forums and the rest are just going to do what they are going to do.

Cut the **** out tags and complain next year again how bad the BUCK hunting is.

This site would be pretty boring if everybody just did not shoot a buck next season but maybe you just have to have that 150 buck you have been waiting all your life for.

 

[slamdunk]

While I'll disagree with Slams numbers I will agree with his post.
I don't care what state you want to name there is a small number of vocal people from every state who participate on these forums and the rest are just going to do what they are going to do.

Cut the **** out tags and complain next year again how bad the BUCK hunting is.

This site would be pretty boring if everybody just did not shoot a buck next season but maybe you just have to have that 150 buck you have been waiting all your life for.

My numbers were obviously hypothetical at best, but i would dare bet a fresh Franklin that the heavy majority of Utah's deer hunters are thrilled to take home a forky.......that's why the GS units is managed that way.

 

[middlefork]

Yes they are! For a reason.

 

[ThrowingLead]

Trial cams, long and multiple seasons running numeerous months, everyone thinking they are a guide, long range rifles and high tech scopes and piles of apples are a big problem to the reduction of mature bucks.

Tough for them to even make it past 2 1/2 years old anymore.

It’s tough for a buck to make it past 1 1/2 years old when you’re standing out of the back of your side-by-side shooting it from the road. How about the DWR and forest service shut down all these ATV trails and dirt roads to no motorized vehicles during hunting season. How many more bucks would make past 2 years old if that happened do you think?

 

[Foreman4x4]

It’s tough for a buck to make it past 1 1/2 years old when you’re standing out of the back of your side-by-side shooting it from the road. How about the DWR and forest service shut down all these ATV trails and dirt roads to no motorized vehicles during hunting season. How many more bucks would make past 2 years old if that happened do you think?

How about they ban scopes, compound bows, range finders, Gore-Tex, inlines, trail cams....

Where should it start and end?

 

[Bluehair]

Spring doe season....shoot em in the womb.

 

[elkassassin]

Hey Foreman!

When You List about 42 More Reasons Why The Deer Herd is F'D Up...................!

How about they ban scopes, compound bows, range finders, Gore-Tex, inlines, trail cams....

Where should it start and end?

 

[ThrowingLead]

How about they ban scopes, compound bows, range finders, Gore-Tex, inlines, trail cams....

Where should it start and end?

You obviously are having a hard time following along with the post. Even if I’m decked out in my Sitka and I just got done taking a bath in scent lock spray and I take my custom built 28 nosler topped with a night force scope and shoot a buck at a 1000 yards with both eyes closed while its licking my salt lick and taking a **** at the same time by my trail camera, I still had to PULL the dang trigger! Some people see fur and just start blasting bullets. I’m very different than that I promise!

the issue isn’t the gear we use. it’s who’s using it and how they are using it.

 

[basinbowhunter]

Lots of complaining. I am very grateful for the opportunity that Utah provides to the deer hunter, especially to the bowhunter. I have only had one limited entry deer tag in 16 years and have worked hard to kill a deer, usually a mature one, almost every year with my bow in the same general units that people claim only have "piss cutters". I hope I am not coming off as boasting as much as I am proud of my accomplishments. I believe the deer are here, its a matter of putting the work in to find and kill them. Hunting mature deer is not easy, nor should it be. Killing a 2 point generally is much easier. What do you think non committed hunters will succeed at? 2 points or mature deer? To me, part of the experience is the toughness of finding mature deer. How rewarding would it be if everyone issued a tag killed a mature deer and didn't have to work at it? I have no desires to get in a war of words regarding my position or yours. Its just my opinion and I have 16 years of "data" to back it up.

 

[basinbowhunter]

This may be a good example. A 24 inch pisscutter 2 point that my son shot in a general unit last year with his bow. You think he would have been more excited if it was a 180 inch buck? I don't. I was there and saw his excitement. He put the work in and passed higher scoring deer to kill this specific pisscutter. He dreamed about it from the moment we got him on trailcamera. Not everyone needs a "mature" deer to be completely satisfied.
Maybe if those complaining spent less time typing and more time scouting they would have more positive experiences to share? Again, Just my opinion as eveyone is entitled to their own.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Shane!

I Don't know why You'd 'GREEN-OUT' Your Sons Face?

If Dad & Son Are Proud,that's all that Matters!

 

[basinbowhunter]

Well Shane!

I Don't know why You'd 'GREEN-OUT' Your Sons Face?

If Dad & Son Are Proud,that's all that Matters!

Because he is a minor not because Im not proud of him. He is a good looking kid. i can assure you on that.

 

[Foreman4x4]

You obviously are having a hard time following along with the post. Even if I’m decked out in my Sitka and I just got done taking a bath in scent lock spray and I take my custom built 28 nosler topped with a night force scope and shoot a buck at a 1000 yards with both eyes closed while its licking my salt lick and taking a **** at the same time by my trail camera, I still had to PULL the dang trigger! Some people see fur and just start blasting bullets. I’m very different than that I promise!

the issue isn’t the gear we use. it’s who’s using it and how they are using it.

You need to get over the fact that not everyone thinks the same way you do. Lots more to hunting than taking big bucks and bulls. Some of the most memorable hunts I've ever been on I didn't even have a tag in my pocket and others I never fired a shot.

 

[basinbowhunter]

I feel that anyone who shames another hunter for shooting a "lesser" buck should assess why they are hunting.

 

[elkassassin]

You Can Shoot what You Want!

And I'm Always Glad to see a Youth Hunter Hunting & Taking Game in the Field No Matter the Size!

Let's Take The Book Cliffs for an Example!

Limited Entry Right?

Should Be Managed Way Better than it is,Right?

Could & Should Be Some Fine/Quality Hunting out there!

2 Seasons ago they were Parading 16"-20" 4 Points around like they were some kind of Trophies!

(((Ya,there were a few Exceptions,but Damn Few!)))

Many Disappointed Hunters that Blowed alot of Points to get the Tag!

Tri Wonders Why TARDS Don't Self Regulate theirselves!

Some Do!

But the ones that Do,Are Out-numbered Big Time By the Ones that Don't!

I'd Place Money with This BS Carona Crap they've STIRRED Up they'll be More Young Bucks/Deer Slaughtered this Fall than ever before because they have SKEERED Americans & some are Gonna Lower their Standards just to put Meat in the Freezer!

And They'll Do it Not even Thinking of the Consequences of what it will do to the Deer Herd in Following Years!

HELL-RIGHT!!!

 

[basinbowhunter]

So shoot what you want as long as it meets your expectations? Then shame a hunter for parading the biggest buck he could find.? Am i reading that right?
I will try to make my point again. Not everyone cares about inches and its ok. We need to stick together as hunters instead of driving wedges between hunters that care most about inches and those that care less about inches and more about experiences, time afield, etc... I think one can have it both ways as i personally care about inches and adventure.

 

[Tristate]

I'm not that worried about inches. I am however worried about maturity. If your average age of mortality for a buck is 18 months you have some serious issues in your deer herd.

 

[ThrowingLead]

You need to get over the fact that not everyone thinks the same way you do. Lots more to hunting than taking big bucks and bulls. Some of the most memorable hunts I've ever been on I didn't even have a tag in my pocket and others I never fired a shot.

I’m fine not killing. I’m fine passing up 3-4 year old bucks. I love just getting away from work and being with family. We might kill 1-2 bucks a year out of 6 tags. I’m mostly out just for the memories with family. My issue is grown ass men shooting 2 year old deer out the truck window.

 

[notdonhunting]

The state of Utah had terrible large bull elk numbers back in the 1980 and early 1990, am I right?
What management practice turned Utah into one of the premier trophy bull elk states?

We keep hearing about pisscutters doing the breeding and the trophey gene gone. It does not matter if a 2 point or a 30 inch heavy antlerd 4 point does the breeding the gene can/will be the same for bolth. The problem is when a 20 inch willowed antlerd crab claw 5.5 year old buck is doing the breeding, then you have possibly lost the trophy buck gene.
It is not a problem killing two points. Elkass you just stated the Book Cliffs went to shitzz by shooting 2.5 and 3.5 year old deer if you go to a 3 point or better that is exactly what hunters will be killing. The problem with Utahs deer herds is the lack of herds. Identify the problem that is causing the lack of deer herds and then we can start to return to better days of deer hunting.
Some guys on this site has identified some of the problems with the overall deer herd numbers but they get drowned out by the louder guys saying we need to cut tags or we need 3 point or better.

Why did plumbers go away from galvanized pipes and go to copper, PEX and PVC pipes, or any successful buisness that changed managment practices because of modern computers and information?
Because the the products or new management practices is better for buisness.

So if 3 point or better is such a slam dunk at creating larger bucks and it costs the DWR very little to implement such managment practice.
Why would the DWR not want to create a better product that they could charge higher prices for. Is it not about money, that is what I always here hunters claim the DWR is all about.

Remember bucks are the product that is being sold but does are what produces the product.
If you want to create more product you need to increase production.

 

[deerkiller]

Utah has lots of opportunities for everyone one. I don’t agree with a grown man killing a 2 point just to cut a tag, but that’s their choice. What I do have an issue with is after killing that deer, they complain about the quality of deer in the state.

Utah quality is great if you want to work for it. You’ll get out of the hunt, what you put into it. every unit in the state has “trophy” deer. If that’s what you want, you better scout and put the time in. eventually it’ll pay off. If you want to just fill a tag, that’s not hard to do with any type of hunting you do. Just don’t complain about how the hunt sucked while your skinning your 1.5 YO 2 point.

 

[deerkiller]

I'm not that worried about inches. I am however worried about maturity. If your average age of mortality for a buck is 18 months you have some serious issues in your deer herd.

There’s plenty of other states with trophy units out there that manage deer to your standards. Please do us all a favor and don’t apply for tags in Utah anymore. I’d hate to see you take a tag from someone else who isn’t so worried about deer maturity. And I’d hate to see you waste your time in a state that doesn’t meet your requirements for a general hunt

 

[Tristate]

"There’s plenty of other states with trophy units out there that manage deer to your standards. Please do us all a favor and don’t apply for tags in Utah anymore. I’d hate to see you take a tag from someone else who isn’t so worried about deer maturity. And I’d hate to see you waste your time in a state that doesn’t meet your requirements for a general hunt "

Quit being melodramatic. I'm talking about the health of your deer herd. Not what I want to kill.

 

[deerkiller]

Maybe you should focus more on the health of your deer herd and let us residents decide what WE want.

melodramatic... haha you should listen to your own advice

 

[Tristate]

"Maybe you should focus more on the health of your deer herd and let us residents decide what WE want.

melodramatic... haha you should listen to your own advice "

Because this was a spin-off about non-resident hunters and the prices they pay. MAYBE you should learn how to read and a little less time practicing how to be passive aggressive.

 

[deerkiller]

"Maybe you should focus more on the health of your deer herd and let us residents decide what WE want.

melodramatic... haha you should listen to your own advice "

Because this was a spin-off about non-resident hunters and the prices they pay. MAYBE you should learn how to read and a little less time practicing how to be passive aggressive.

Utah is currently one of the cheaper states for non residents to hunt in. It’s only fair to increase the prices to the appropriate amounts that match every other state. If that makes it harder for some to apply and hunt in Utah in the future, yes that sucks. However, it will increase the draw odds for those who do continue to hunt here. More money, increased draw odds. MAYBE you should see the bigger picture here and not be such a self centered azzhole ??‍

 

[Tristate]

Are you kidding me? Did you bust into the liquor cabinet early today. You really need to go read before you type your responses and make flaming ignorant assumptions about my stance on the subject.

 

[deerkiller]

Are you kidding me? Did you bust into the liquor cabinet early today. You really need to go read before you type your responses and make flaming ignorant assumptions about my stance on the subject.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? ? the **** you continually spew on here is unbelievable! You’re much deeper into something that’s altering your judgement than most of the members on here combined!

 

[Tristate]

And now you are fresh out of logic. Better just attack the person who started the thread. Grow up boy. Or sober up.

 

[elkassassin]

 

[schoolhousegrizz]

Deerkiller vs Tristate, a match up I have been waiting to see.? It's like Pacquiao/Mayweather, Fury/Wilder. I know who my money would be on, but I will keep that to myself.

 

[Giddyup]

Utah is currently one of the cheaper states for non residents to hunt in. It’s only fair to increase the prices to the appropriate amounts that match every other state. If that makes it harder for some to apply and hunt in Utah in the future, yes that sucks. However, it will increase the draw odds for those who do continue to hunt here. More money, increased draw odds. MAYBE you should see the bigger picture here and not be such a self centered azzhole ??‍

Whoa!!?

 

[ridgetops]

Hey tri, I've already seen people posting that I and my "Wolfpack" buddies are to blame for killing too many mature general season bucks in the past few year. So I'll be the fall guy. Hopefully I'll be hunting a new area (unit) this year. I have no idea what to expect but if I can't find a mature buck to chase, I'll be blaming myself and no one else.

 

[ThunderImpulse4]

Thanks a lot Ridgetops! It is all your fault.

 

[elkassassin]

Now You've Insulted them other Hunters!

Hey tri, I've already seen people posting that I and my "Wolfpack" buddies are to blame for killing too many mature general season bucks in the past few year. So I'll be the fall guy. Hopefully I'll be hunting a new area (unit) this year. I have no idea what to expect but if I can't find a mature buck to chase, I'll be blaming myself and no one else.

 

[LT]

Can i just say, that i love shooting little bucks. in fact i shot myself a very small 2 point last year. i even did a euro mount of him. extremely proud that i was able to harvest a buck.

 

[elkassassin]

Well!

I Like Not Shooting them Little Bucks!

I Didn't Shoot Myself a small 2 Point last year!

And I Won't Shoot one this year either!

 

[deadibob]

Utah should try three-point or better units.

The state says a three point or better hunt doesn't work because hunters can't tell a fork horn from a three point buck and too many deer get shot and left behind. That same logic doesn't apply though when it comes to elk. We can have spike elk hunts and any bull elk hunts without a problem. Apparently the same hunters who can tell a spike bull that might have a point below it's ear, a small fork branching off a spike or a spike on one side and a six point other side can't tell a two point muley from a three pointer. Go figure?

 

[Vanilla]

Problem is:

We are Out-Numbered by the Other Kind!

A fabulous line from my good friend Charlie Daniels comes to mind when I read this crap:

“There’s a whole lot more of us common folk then there ever will be of you!”

And thank goodness for that! I would absolutely hate to live in Bessy’s world if he was making decisions for Utah hunting. No offense cat, but you’re off your rocker on this one. Some people enjoy hunting more than just complaining about hunting. You ought to try it some time.

 

[Foreman4x4]

The state says a three point or better hunt doesn't work because hunters can't tell a fork horn from a three point buck and too many deer get shot and left behind. That same logic doesn't apply though when it comes to elk. We can have spike elk hunts and any bull elk hunts without a problem. Apparently the same hunters who can tell a spike bull that might have a point below it's ear, a small fork branching off a spike or a spike on one side and a six point other side can't tell a two point muley from a three pointer. Go figure?

That post was sarcasm, I lived through Utah's three-point or better days. What a fiasco that was.

 

[elkassassin]

Well Niller!

At Least You Listen to Good Music!

You Remind Me Niller of the Guy that:

Said Nothing!

Did Nothing!

And Ended Up with very Little because You Wouldn't Stand up for some Change in the Management of HUNTING/GAME HERDS/WILDLIFE!

But By GAWD You've got your Opportunity To Get that Trophy 2 Point You're Chasing!

Guess You Haven't Seen the Change in the TARDville Deer Herd That I Have?

Or You're too Arrogant to Comprehend it?

As Long as You can be GREEDY & Hunt Every Year that's all You're Looking at I Guess?

Some of You Don't Look in to the Future as Far as Next Year!

I'm Guessin You've Got Kids/Grandkids?

You Ever Think about them Maybe havin a Chance at some Decent Deer Hunting?

Carry on with your (Do Nothing!) BullSShhiittt!

Still waitin on your BIG PLAN that's gonna Save the Deer Herd?

Post it Up!

We've been waitin Patiently!

A fabulous line from my good friend Charlie Daniels comes to mind when I read this crap:

“There’s a whole lot more of us common folk then there ever will be of you!”

And thank goodness for that! I would absolutely hate to live in Bessy’s world if he was making decisions for Utah hunting. No offense cat, but you’re off your rocker on this one. Some people enjoy hunting more than just complaining about hunting. You ought to try it some time.

 

[Vanilla]

Bessy, I like you (despite my better judgment...), but let's be perfectly clear: The only one spewing BS here is you.

And let's not confuse "saying something and doing something" with whining on an internet forum. Posting up on Monster Muleys might make you feel good and give you the warm tingly feelings, but it doesn't make a darn difference in any way in the real world.

I assure you I don't "do nothing," I just do it where it matters. Yes I have kids. Yes I want them to be able to hunt. That's exactly why I still get excited to see a small deer and don't need inches to feed my ego.

Feel free to give up your tag every year. Feel free to hate hunting all you want. Me and mine are going hunting. We like it.

 

[elkassassin]

Just Trying to Raise Your Blood Pressure again there Niller!

And It's Working!

 

[deadibob]

Foreman, I lived through those days as well and you can't compare those days to these days. The difference between then and now are the optics. Back then most people were using cheap binos like bushnell sportviews if anything at all. Riflescopes were inferior as well. There are still places that have point restrictions and it seems to work.

 

[deadibob]

Any hunter who looks down on another hunter because of the size of the deer they shot is not only the problem but an azzhole. From the beginning of man until roughly 50-60 years ago hunting was first and foremost about the meat and filling bellies. It morphed for many into recreation, family time and enjoying the outdoors. It has since become tainted with money and egos.

I'm not telling anyone what legal animal they should or shouldn't shoot, if you're one of those people then you're a dik. If you have a problem with this, fight me.

 

[mulecreek]

The state of Utah had terrible large bull elk numbers back in the 1980 and early 1990, am I right?
What management practice turned Utah into one of the premier trophy bull elk states?

Its been a while so some of this may be a bit fuzzy. My memory has it that prior to 1990, or around there, most of the elk units in the state were any bull OTC units. With a few LQ units. Then around 1990 they turned those any bull units into Spike only OTC units and lowered the tag numbers on the LQ units. They were going to start managing for age class of bulls rather than herd size. The theory being that bulls where being shot at a young age and not allowing them to mature. By going to spike only the belief was that not all spikes would get killed and the ones that made it two 2 year olds would be untouchable. After a few years of this they opened up LQ tags in those spike only units for mature bulls. It appeared to be hugely successful. I remember getting a video with Doug Miller as the narrator about the 2002 hunting season and how it produced half a dozen or so 380"+ bulls. This went on for several years with the size and quantity of trophy class bulls increasing but people started getting pissy that it took so long to draw a tag. After increasing complaints the DWR reduced the age class numbers to allow for more tags and I believe that many people with more experience in Utah than I will agree that trophy quality has gone down while still high in most LQ units.

That is my recollection at least. I could be wrong on dates and some details but that is how I remember it.

It would be an interesting experiment to try with a couple Gen deer units. Make tags good for two points or less and see what happens.

 

[Longun]

I shoot big bucks on a general tag all the time for the last 20 years..

 

[slamdunk]

Its been a while so some of this may be a bit fuzzy. My memory has it that prior to 1990, or around there, most of the elk units in the state were any bull OTC units. With a few LQ units. Then around 1990 they turned those any bull units into Spike only OTC units and lowered the tag numbers on the LQ units. They were going to start managing for age class of bulls rather than herd size. The theory being that bulls where being shot at a young age and not allowing them to mature. By going to spike only the belief was that not all spikes would get killed and the ones that made it two 2 year olds would be untouchable. After a few years of this they opened up LQ tags in those spike only units for mature bulls. It appeared to be hugely successful. I remember getting a video with Doug Miller as the narrator about the 2002 hunting season and how it produced half a dozen or so 380"+ bulls. This went on for several years with the size and quantity of trophy class bulls increasing but people started getting pissy that it took so long to draw a tag. After increasing complaints the DWR reduced the age class numbers to allow for more tags and I believe that many people with more experience in Utah than I will agree that trophy quality has gone down while still high in most LQ units.

That is my recollection at least. I could be wrong on dates and some details but that is how I remember it.

It would be an interesting experiment to try with a couple Gen deer units. Make tags good for two points or less and see what happens.

You are completely spot on about the elk explosion.

Our GS deer units need help in a big way.
We are down to 90k hunters in the state from 200k and somehow our herds are in worst shape.
We all agree there are several factors that we believe are affecting them, but until we can get the Division to stop believing their "models" and use old school reality, nothing significant will change.

 

[elkassassin]

Oh It'll Change!

It'll even get Worse!

But As Long as Everybody will Invest an UN-REAL Amount of Money To Get that Lil Ole PISSCUTTER Buck Most TARDS Are Happy I Guess!