Another cat attack

[eelgrass]

Here we go again....

http://www.adn.com/nation/story/784789.html

Mountain lion mauls dog that defended owners

The Associated Press

Published: May 5th, 2009 06:29 PM
Last Modified: May 5th, 2009 09:44 PM

LAKE ELSINORE, Calif. - A mountain lion attacked and nearly killed a dog that defended its owners Tuesday on a trail in the Santa Ana Mountains.

The dog was severely mauled in the stomach area and rushed to a veterinary hospital for surgery, said Orange County sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino. The 5-year-old black Labrador mix named Hoagie underwent a four-hour operation and was expected to survive, he said.

William Morse told KABC-TV that he was hiking with his wife near a campground in the Cleveland National Forest, about 10 miles from Lake Elsinore, when a 120-pound mountain lion approached.

"Out of nowhere, a mountain lion just charged us, attacked us. And my dog saved our lives," Morse said.

He said the attack lasted less than 10 seconds and left the dog with deep wounds.

But, Amormino said, the dog put up a "vicious fight. I'm sure that lion was hurt, too."


Morse said he was traumatized by the attack and will never return to the campground where he and his wife have been hiking for years.

Sheriff's deputies and Forest Service officials have not located the mountain lion, which will be destroyed if located, officials said.

 

[eelgrass]

Hold the phone! Now they say it was the owners/dogs fault.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lan...he-dog-likely-provoked-the-mountain-lion.html

State officials say Hoagie the dog likely provoked the mountain lion
1:33 PM | May 6, 2009
State wildlife officials said today that a dog involved in a battle with a mountain lion in the Cleveland National Forest was likely the aggressor and there was no evidence that the cougar had targeted the canine?s owners.

?The report we got was that the dog went up to a mountain lion and the mountain lion ran away and the dog chased it and was mauled,? said Harry Morse, spokesman for the California Department of Fish and Game. ?We went out there and didn't find any evidence of a mountain lion. They didn't find any tracks or hair. That's not to say it wasn?t there.?

Morse said the mountain lion is not being viewed as a threat to public safety and is not being sought by wardens. In cases where an animal is deemed a threat, it is hunted down and killed.

The information is at odds with previous reports that Hoagie, a black shepherd mix, had intercepted a charging mountain lion in a bid to protect its owner.





William Morse of Wildomar told authorities that he was walking with his wife and dog near the Blue Jay campground Tuesday when the mountain lion came toward him. He said Hoagie and the mountain lion battled briefly, leaving the dog badly wounded.

The canine underwent surgery at the Clinton Keith Veterinary Hospital in Wildomar and was released to its owner.

?As far as we can tell, the dog went after the lion, and the lion turned around and attacked the dog,? said Kevin Brennan, a wildlife biologist for the department of fish and game. ?There isn't any evidence to believe there are any public safety issues. If a mountain lion attacks a human being or attempts to attack a human being, we treat that as a public safety incident, and we have to destroy the animal. That's not what happened here.?

The Blue Jay and Falcon campgrounds have been closed until May 8 so signs can be put up urging people to exercise caution around mountain lions, said a spokesman for the Cleveland National Forest.

-- David Kelly

 

[Naildriver]

Of course its not the mtn lions fault.PETA is loving this.

 

[Wiszard]

I guess we'll have to wait until Hoagie wakes up after the surgery and ask him what REALLY happened. I say give the dog a lie detector test! Who knows what happened but what kind of evidence would be able to tell who attacked who? Thats what is a little ridiculous about this whole story. So, the F&G are not believing the owners of the dog. Why would they make a story like that up? Is this a case of F&G just not wanting to deal with the problem?

Steve

 

[sageadvice]

Give that dog a drug test too!! He had to have been on roid rage! Just what makes any 50 lb animal in north America take off and try to "kill" a 120 tom Mt Lion? Had to be drugs!! Labs... man's best friend, not too bright!!

If it turns out the lab did prevent further attack on the park users, he ought to get a hero's welcome. That includes being allowed to "dump" where ever he likes, get out of jail free for chewing up your best boots, and a t-bone steak dinner every Sat night!

seriously, CATS CATS CATS EVERYWHERE!!! More than a few people are going to have to die from Mt Lion attacks before we see any change. How stupid!!!

Joey

 

[Model_70_Guy]

>I guess we'll have to wait
>until Hoagie wakes up after
>the surgery and ask him
>what REALLY happened. I say
>give the dog a lie
>detector test!

Well you know how those damn dogs lie, especially Labador mixes and you never know it could have been a drug deal gone bad.
Seems the dogs owners might be looking at some trouble here letting Hoagie harrass one of California's protected animals. I mean there are leash laws! What's a poor mountain lion to do?

Seriously though this brings to mind what happened close to my home a year or two ago when a jogger was attacked and killed by a mountain lion and another person hiking was attacked by the same cat later that day.

F&G needs to wake up and so do the rest of the people that want to protect the big yellow kitties. Incidents involving humans and mountian lions are going to increase as the lion population grows unchecked. Mountain lions require large areas for their home turf forcing younger lions to move in to areas with people. What is it going to take? More people getting attacked? A child getting killed? Peoples pets getting attacked? Deer herds getting wiped out? Years ago lion sightings were very uncommon, That aint the case now and as they say:
"Houston, We got a problem" but I have a feeling that the problem is going to get much worse before it gets better.

 

[mulebuck]

PLEASE PEOPLE, JUST LEAVE THE LIONS ALONE!!!
They are struggling to survive and adapt here in Cali. Oh wait, that's Republicans.

In our state a lion can do nothing wrong. When will it end?

I want to know what time of day these people were hiking. I'm assuming mid-day. If that's the case, that cat was hungry and probably looking for a nice fresh Hoagie roll, right?

 

[nickman]

Fish & Game needs money. They won't get it from the cat.

If they find that the dog was allowed to "harass" the cat, the owners can be fined and some "feel good" press can be spun out to the liberals in So Cal.

Of course, having a generally nocturnal, mountain lion roaming around in the middle of the day, in a crowded park, is no cause for concern.

WTF....blame the dog.

Maybe introduce some legislation to prohibit dogs outside of your house altogether. After all.........?

 

[muleyczy]

It's unfortunate that the majority of the people that had the voting power live in huge metropolitain area i.e in LA, San Fran ect. They have no vested interest in the management of mountain lions. Until someone gets attacked then it's a isolated incident involving a "sick" mountain lion.

I read at on point that when lion season was closed a study was done that California's habitat could sustain approximately 600 mountian lions within the state. Then a study again was done in I believe 96 or 97 and the estimated population was 4 or 6 times the sustained number of 600. My facts may be off alittle, long time ago but.....

Think of this..let's just say for argument sake that California has 1,000 mountain lions. (way more)out of those 1,000 only 500 are compitant hunters that would survive. They (biologist) say on average a mountain lion kills one deer a week. That's 500 deer a week, 2,000 deer a month, or 26,000 deer a year!!!! and thats a very conservitave estimation. Then you account for vehicel mortality. We will soon be putting deer in a freakin zoo just so our kids can see them.

California needs to wake up. If we put as much energy into wildlife management as we (california) does into gay rights we'd have awesome wildlife for every one to enjoy hunters and none hunters alike.

 

[larrbo]

I talked with a biologist from fish and game during my hunt to X5b last October. He said that the cats were running wild and taking a toll on the deer herds. The point he made that got my attention was that the management of fish and game was very political. They told him that they don't want reports that are negative toward the cats...period. This is a problem.

 

[Wiszard]

One of the ways the liberals in California feel they can portray the mountain lion as the victim is our expansion into their living space. We moved into where they live. I tell them to take a look at history in general. Lets take California for example. We took it from Mexico...Mexico took it from Spain. One entity is not always going to be king of the hill and known as the "chosen one" forever. There is a progression of survival of the fittest. The mountain lion is not the dominant species between us and them. Therefore, they should take the backseat if they are threatening us or our way of life. By no means does this mean destroy the species, but let nature take it's course. I'll be carrying a .357 this coming bowseason because I know of 4 confirmed mountain lion kills within 1/2 mile of where I hunt. The kills actually took place in an upscale neighborhood just on the outskirts of town. It's pretty scary not knowing what's following you in or out of your hunting location.

Steve

 

[nickman]

Steve, I don't blame you for the idea of carrying your .357. Just be sure you know where the fishcop is or you will get a ticket and be hunting nowhere in CA next year.

It may be one of the dumbest laws we have on the books in this state.

Why would they care that an archery hunter is carrying a handgun? If you are picking wild blackberries, it is OK to have your gun in the field with you. Makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Wiszard]

Nickman- I hear you, I'd rather be safe than sorry though. It's kind of a catch 22. I'm not worried about the fish cops in the area I hunt. NOBODY is supposed to be out there!! HaHa Just kidding of course...

Steve

 

[Wiszard]

I just watched a TV show that was about near death experiences and they had a deal on there about a lady who was attacked by a mountain lion while mountain biking. It knocked her off her bike and tore up her face as it tried to drag her down into a ravine. Her friend tried to get the cat off the biker but the lion would not let go. Luckily there were other bikers in the area and a couple of guys were able to scare the cat off the biker. She was torn up and nearly died. They found a bike in the same area that belonged to a 35 year old male and it was determined that he was also attacked and killed that same very day. They found the cat and shot it. Is that ironic that it was on TV today after participating in this post? Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do!!

Steve

 

[nickman]

So, clearly, we need to train these cats to hunt Spandex.

These types of attacks will make the "flower children" pay serious attention.

Some Spandex bike shorts, with the pockets filled with Whiskers cat food and catnip, selectivly placed along bike trails in So Cal?

 

[sageadvice]

"we need to train these cats to hunt Spandex."

+1

Joey

 

[brownie]

I'll second that!
Thanks, Doug.

 

[eelgrass]

Here is an interesting current article out of Hollister you might like to read. Check out the photo of four lions together at the water trough.

http://www.freelancenews.com/news/255621-updated-ag-leader-says-lions-have-to-be-controlled

And here is a link to the status of Prop. 117, that was passed in 1990, prohibiting the sport hunting of mountain lions. It was part of THE CALIFORNIA WILDLIFE PROTECTION ACT OF 1990. It expires in 2020, so maybe there is some hope, at least for our kids.

http://www.mountainlion.org/prop117guide.asp

I always have a handgun while archery hunting. You can't see it but I have it.

Eel

 

[Gator]

It would be nice to take maybe 100 or so big cats and turn them loose in the depths of LA and SF after a couple of weeks we could have another vote and see how that vote would turn out.


"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".

 

[usahunter]

I used to be a mouth caller purest while coyote hunting but I bought a remote caller after 2 cat encounters this last year, neither cat was afraid of us and came in downwind so they knew what we were,I had a long coversation with F@G regarding carrying a handgun while bowhunting , I explained that Wyoming and Colorado allow it and that Arizona is researching the possibility of allowing bowhunters to carry. I also explained that unlike rifle hunters we sneak around the woods in full camo as unscented as possible so the chance of a close encounter with a cat or a bear with cubs is more likely, they dismissed me by saying they were unaware of any problems between bowhunters and big game and if I didn't like the law I could hunt with my bow during the regular gun season and could carry then. I explained that I get an Archery only tag and they said not only could I not possess a firearm while bowhunting with an AO tag but I also couldn't have a weapon in my vehicle or my campsite and they would prosecute me if they caught me, so that means that if I want to bowhunt in the AM and quail hunt in the afternoon it would be against the law....welcome to california

 

[nickman]

USA......I would happily test that last part about your truck or campsite.