Another Federal Land Grab

3

3blade

Very Active Member
Messages
1,944
some of you may be for this and some of you won't. I am against and passing it on. The Feds have enough of our lands and I personally believe in the 10th Amendment. But, act accordingly.

Stop New Million-Acre Federal Land Grab

Dear Colleague:

Congressional leaders say they will ram through an omnibus public lands package after the elections in a "lame duck" Congress. The Roundtable is rallying Westerners to oppose this huge federal land grab. Take action here right now!

http://www.westernroundtable.com/de...able_Leading_Effort_To_Stop_Federal_Land_Grab

This bill, H.R. 5151, includes more than 150 bills that would: create/expand a number of wilderness areas; establish new conservation areas; create/ add to wild and scenic designations; designate new national scenic trails; add new national and historic park units and nearly a dozen new national heritage areas.

In total, this package would create more than a million acres of wilderness, restrict the development of energy resources on various federal lands, and place hundreds of thousands of acres under new or enhanced federal control and further restrict many forms of use and access to public lands.

Not only that, but this bill would lock in, by statute, the Clinton Administration-inspired "National Landscape Conservation System" (NLCS) within the BLM. The bill would give federal land managers the ability to alter the long-standing multiple use management philosophy of the BLM by elevating the purposes to ?conserve, protect, restore? above other purposes for NLCS units. This could mean agriculture, energy exploration and production and other economic uses could become imperiled on huge swathes of Western public lands. See a state-by-state analysis of federal lands impacted by NLCS.

Please take 60 seconds and send a pre-drafted communication to your elected official here.

Thank you for helping to stop this very bad legislation.

Britt Weygandt
Western Business Roundtable
200 Union Blvd., #105
Lakewood, CO 80228
office: 303-216-9278
fax: 303-496-0334
[email protected]
www.westernroundtable.com

The Roundtable is a non-profit, 501(c)(6) organization that unites a wide variety of business and industry leaders to work on a bipartisan basis for public policies that promote a common sense balance between economic growth and environmental conservation.
 
Now that the dems have control and the FOR SALE sign has come off of our public lands I'd rather see them table this sort of thing as long as possible. but if you think about it this is just the sort of thing TR would have been for, and he had the same screaming and whining going on everytime he proposed another " land grab " and we're all glad he won out. so I guess it's all good.
 
Where do you get land grab from anyway, this is public land in the first place so the question is how should it be used and what protection is proper. I'm not familiar with where all this property is so I'm not going to make a judgment on it, but if it gets protection so be it I love roadless and wilderness areas. like I said if TR had given every time he proposed a land use plan we'd be screwed today, since you're from TX public land seems like a crazy idea to you but for us outside the bubble I can't imagine life without it.

As a hunter conservation and wild lands preservation is a top priority to me, I'm for multiple use public lands but multiple use means a portion is off limits to any use other than recreation. unless you're a road hunter this shouldn't scare you too much, and don't give me any crap about we need this land to make us energy independent or anything like that, a million acres isn't that much land considering the total we have. there will probably be a compromise and part of it will be " grabbed ", my guess is TR would approve.
 
I just drove by one of Clinton's expenditures in his big land grab. They spent a few million dollars near Bloody Basin on the I-17 north of Phoenix to create an underpass and parking lot with a monument declaring it one of the new wild areas. It is just a place to get off the highway with no roads in or out so you simply pull off to read the sign and take a leak on the ground. Of absolutely no use to anyone. Just plain desert just like the rest of that area.
 
So give us a bit more info. Will we still be able to hunt these lands? Will this mean fewer a-holes on ATV's? If so, I'm supporting it. Californicators and Texican's have already bought up lot's acreage in this state and closed things off to hunting. If the above bill means less lands being sold to private intersts like those I just noted, I'd rather have the Fed's buy them. Then my tax payer dollars are benefitting me and not some rich prick from another state. Instead of hitting the panic button, give us more info and tell us how it impacts our hunting...
 
As a hunter of public land, especially roadless, I applaud this.
I don't want to see Texass style hunting be forced on us in the Intermountain West.

BeanMan
 
last weekend my wife harvested her 3rd elk in 3 years in southern Wy, we had a nice trip as usual, lots of wildlife and pretty sunsets, yesterday I learn that the BLM wants to lease as a start 18 thousand acres for gas drilling as soon as possible, I can't believe it nowhere is safe,the red desert south of I80 is being drilled to death, up where I live is getting hammered were fighting them over the Wyoming range, and now they want Little mountain, there are plenty of places the can drill for decades that are less sensitive, but they want the best wildlife habitat areas first it seems, I hope they grab all the land they can for us hunters now and for future hunters
 
I have to leave in a few minutes a 200 mile round trip to an emergency meeting about the rush to lease this area by the Bush adm, boy will it be good to see these creeps leave and the Dems take over, god bless them on their battle to save some wild country for us
 
I think we are talking about the public domain, the Feds are us, the people, it is our land. Almost all of the land in the bill is already federal. Mostly this is a consolidation and use management bill.

I've been putting my efforts into the bill for the last couple of years. There are few if any lands propose that are a net gain to the federal system, most of it is about codifying current management plans as a result of new travel management planning over the past 10 years.

This is the most balanced "wilderness" bill that I've ever seen. It's had lots of hard work and there's still more to do. I'm working on the language for the Montana section of the bill, and I think it's well written.

I suggest you guys that think the sky is falling and that this is just a federal land grab should find out more about it before you start poping off and making up things that just are misleading or untrue. . .

I support this bill, it's a bill that will put into law mostly existing land management policy and new travel management plans. . .

This is as far from a land grab as it gets when it comes to the feds and enhancing the public domain. . .

If you want to make a difference get involved, donate your time, and if you dont like what's going on, voice you opinion and while youre at it, throw in a few ideas that might actually help the situation. . .

Tony

www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
From experience.....don't waste your time fighting this. It will pass anyway.

We're getting our lumber from Canada and gasoline is cheap right now so it's OK to put more of our lands off limits to anything but backpacking. No problem.

Eel
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-12-08 AT 09:29PM (MST)[p]Well managed land. Drill here drill now!

Who says oil and wildlife don't mix?

downrightmean176-1.jpg
 
Good point 30" drill it all now, put it in you hummer, then in a few years we will have nothing to burn, and no options but to beg the rest of the world for help. That's a great energy and security policy. . .






www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Again ignorance speaks!

The US has enough in the ground to last over 100 years at the consumption rate we are at. With modest increase of use at least 50 years.

I am sure that by then somebody will come up with better alternatives than we got now.

We need alternatives but with the current situation we need the petro now.
 
30inchbuck

I agree. we have at least 200 billion barrels of oil off shore and in alaska. This is a conservative USGS estimate since they don't know if we'll have more until they tap the field. We have at least 1 trillion barrels locked up in oil shale. We are the saudia arabia of coal and have enough to last at least 250 yrs, same with the oil. We have natural gas out the wazzo too. But nobody wants to drill for it in their backyard. They would prefer we went back to the horse and buggy as you suggest, but theres a problem with that too, animal dung contains methane and that causes global warming. So better yet, lets buy it from russia, venezeula, iran, the saudis etc, then they can turn around and spend the money to commit terrorism against us. Its no wonder we have a trade deficit when we send 500 to 700 billion a yr to foreign countries for oil because we have our heads up you no where. What we need to do guys whether you like it or not, unless of course you prefer a 3rd world status economy, and I know some of you do. Is to use what we've got while researching new technologies that are cost effective energy replacements. So far, they have not found one, contrary to popular belief around here.

Wait until this economy turns around in 2010 and gas goes back to $4 a gallon and higher and we all begin to btch. We could have got started, the oil off Santa Barbara could be brought to market in 1 yr and any added supply will cushion the blow. But I bet everyone has forgot gas was at $4 a gallon not so long ago haven't they??
 
Nobody is saying no more drilling they're saying it's not the answer to our problem. do you even listen to your own heros? at the republican " what in the hell do we do now " gathering yesterday Pawlenty siad " drill baby drill is not an energy policy " the republicans know they have to do better and they will.

We need to come up with a far reaching energy plan , but a few wilderness areas and protection on these public lands aren't going to change a thing in the big picture.
 
"We need to come up with a far reaching energy plan , but a few wilderness areas and protection on these public lands aren't going to change a thing in the big picture."

No but keep eliminating where we can drill and pretty soon we will be a 3rd world country with all of our petro locked underground in places where we have it but cannot access it. Prevent the US from becoming a 3rd world country and get on with utilizing the resources we have.
 
Hey 30" mind telling all of us whats in the bill? No, not what some website says is in it, but what's really in it.

One of the main thrusts of the new "wilderness" planning and management is to recognize our nations energy demands and existing uses. These issues are inherent in the debates and negotiations over protecting lands from destructive uses.

Before you keep talking about this bill, would you mind reading it first. . .

Thanks,

Tony

www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
1000 pages of some law written crap that is adding millions of acres to "wilderness" designations thus basically making them off-limits to any energy development. Along with that creation of the scenic watersheds making those off-limits to development. Along with money for the NAPI and pour more money into the Navajo farm that has very seldom made a dime of profits.

Already in New Mexico "pit rules" and other added state and federal fees. Drilling in New Mexico has slowed down to a crawl. Rigs are stacked and setting in the yards.

So with our beloved governor he and his cronies has shut down development in NM. Oil & Gas are finishing up what was on the books and are not scheduling any new projects.

So go ahead shutoff any possibilities of new areas. Make regulations so that it is not profitable to drill. All the while keep buying from the middle east. Brilliant just Brilliant.
 
30" my grandpa told me before he died that, "things would change and that the weak will complain themselves to death, the strong one's and the one's willing to seek new and better way of doing things, and leave behind the old ways, or the one's who evolve (those were his words) faster will survive, survival of the fittest. . . " he would say.

Better find a new line of work, how about opening a bank, seems that the government has shifted it's welfare payments from the oil guys to the bankers. . .



www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Its funny how guys call themselves 30 inch bucks and then whine that we arent drilling every last bit of public land in this country, there arent too many 30inchers left up here in S.W wyoming and a lot of the decline has to do with drilling, no its not that clean, we have bad air alerts here in Pinedale we have wells polluted with toxic chemicals, poaching and there are now more deer killed by automobiles than by hunters, so save your B.S for city folks that don't live where its happening, and if we are so flush with oil in this country why are we wanting to drill the last few sensitive areas, sounds to me like were knawing on the bones already
 
dude I live in the 4 corners area. With more wells per square mile than anywhere in mule deer winter range. The oilfield is not the reason for the mule deer decline can we say drought and hunting pressure?

In San Juan and Rio Aribba county there has been more record book animals taken than anywhere else in NM. Rio Arriba county I believe has the most B&C entries than any other county in the country. Not to mention the numbers of big bucks that are not entered. Serveral in the last few years. So save the misconception that it ruins Mule Deer habitat ect. More mule deer here now than in last 20 years.

Deer and elk both here feed on the side of locations - right of ways. Within a few yards of compressors, pumping units ect.

Just like logging and fires - initially you might see decline give it some years and guess what - better habitat is created.

With the wind you have in Pinedale you have bad air alerts? Must be coming from somewhere else and blowing in.
 
Dont work in NM just live there. I will be fine just alot of friends that have seen the decline.

Dont worry when your gas gets cut and electricity goes out we will know who to thank.
 
By the way T - never have asked anybody for anything. I get it done.


So T you know anything about the pit rules I am referring to?
 
>Its funny how guys call themselves
>30 inch bucks and then
>whine that we arent drilling
>every last bit of public
>land in this country, there
>arent too many 30inchers left
>up here in S.W wyoming
>and a lot of the
>decline has to do with
>drilling, no its not that
>clean, we have bad air
>alerts here in Pinedale we
>have wells polluted with toxic
>chemicals, poaching and there are
>now more deer killed by
>automobiles than by hunters, so
>save your B.S for city
>folks that don't live where
>its happening, and if we
>are so flush with oil
>in this country why are
>we wanting to drill the
>last few sensitive areas, sounds
>to me like were knawing
>on the bones already


I use to live in wyoming, ( sheridan-laramie) my mom was born and raised in pinedale. With the wind in the country your in id find it very hard to believe in any air alerts. Being in the industry i would also like to see some data on polluted wells from toxic chemicals. That ##### doesnt happen any more.. once maybe once in a blue moon, but we arent drilling in the 50 and 60's anymore..
I will go with you that drilling brings more people which will bring a slight rise in poaching and road kills. But anyone that knows anything about game management knows that mule deer populations have been going down hill since the 70's. Theres plenty of data to back that up and graphs if you would like to research it.
As far as drilling in sensative areas. Thats a total matter of opinion. Where they use to farm for 100 years in calif, is now a sensative area because of a green headed lizard. Where they want to drill in ANWR is a mosquito infested flat piece of marsh land in the summer. The deserts of Nev was consider waste land and not good for anything but atomic waste disposal a few years ago. All a matter of opinion.
Im sure you are a hypocrite like rest of the greeners. I'll bet you use plastics in your life and drive an automobile. When your down to Horse and a Buggy, then talk to us about not drilling in sensative areas..
 
there are other problems, the explosion of people from everywhere else, the Meth problem ect. they are also talking about some of the high lakes in the Wind Rivers becoming to acidic for fish to survive, Its not very windy in Pinedale, the pollution comes from the gas fields, the winter range for big game is being affected, winter range is critical in Wyoming not everywhere is the same, thats why not everywhere should be drilled and developed, some of us value our hunting and fishing, some value gas guzzling vehicles,for some trophy homes are most important, you can't have everything, there are tradeoffs, thats why I do what I can to protect whats valuable to me and those that share my same values. its a common theme from people like you, instead of trying to understand the issues, learning about the areas affected, and understanding differing viewpoints, you instead resort to right wing hyperbole
 
I asked you to read the bill because it's clear to me that the bill is not a land grab, particularly if you consider the physical geography and existing federal land use policies.

I'm not going to get into a tit for tat on all that oil and gas includes. Lets just say that I' know a lot about it and it's only one small piece of the overall issue. I wont go over my resume and how it relates to oil and gas, but it's rather extensive. I've put my resume up on this site before, in years past, it is long and deep and includes a lot of oil and gas issues. . . I'm not arguing in particular drilling, i'm talking about overall energy AND wildlands today. . . If it helps I can tell you that I was in DC and worked directly on Cheney's domestic energy policy as well as I was the chairman of the Montana Resource Advisory Council and am very much "in the know" about oil and gas exploration, extraction, delivery and refinement in the rocky mountains. . .

I'm not trying to shut down conversation I'm pointing out that i've got some background (since you asked) and can speak on the subject of energy and wildlands. . . That does not make me right it makes me informed. . .



www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
If you want to lay some money down I can prove the air alerts also the toxic chemicals found in the wells, otherwise its too much of a bother, I will talk all I want about not drilling in some areas, its hard to believe there are so many people like you on a hunting site that think everywhere should be drilled and developed, yea I have a big house, a couple of gas guzzlers a couple of horses and some plastic stuff too, so what
 
I could give a hoot about your resume. just saying that keep shutting down places until we run out. then it is over folks. how much more common sense is it?

petro is what runs the world and until a genius comes along and invents some other means then it is the best source for energy we have.

Have little use for the energy policys that have been coming out of the tree hugging Washington DC. Buy oil from rag heads and limit and shut out our own resources here. Smart real Smart that is.

Cut off petro to the east and california for a couple of weeks this winter. see if they change there minds. it amazes me how dumb some people are.
 
It aint over till it's over. we make the rules, we can un do them if we have too. The nice thing about it is that if we conserve now, we have that option later, when we have a greater need and demand. right now we have options, we should exhaust them all before we eliminate the one option that we cant get back, the elimination of the resource. . . oil is not renewable, and so far it's the cheapest fuel we know of. . .

www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Hey, Tony. After living 51 years in the Owens Valley of California, I think I know a little bit about this wilderness bill. In 1974 meetings were held in Bishop with the Forest Service, the public that attended the meetings were told that the Forest Service wanted to make some of the public land wilderness. We were told that once the wilderness areas were put in place,that no new ones would be proposed. We were also told that no existing roads would be closed. That was 34 years ago, since that time hundreds of miles of roads have been closed. Death Valley National Monument was changed from Monument to a national park,and it's boundrys were expanded to include all of the deer and chucker habitat. No more hunting Whipporwill Flat, no more Hunter Mountain, the enviros have no mercy. I am a bitter person when it comes to the public land agencys,they have told lie after lie. If you think I won't be affected, your wrong, 440,000 acres are proposed in my back yard. The north half of the White Mountains will be all wilderness. This year ! legislation is already in the process to take the remaining multiple use land left in the range. These are big mountains, 14,000 feet tall, the valley floor is 4,000 feet. I know your a young tough guy, so was I,but this range will kick your ass , it's straight up. After this bill is passed, and the existing cherry stemmed roads wash out the public will have to access these mountains by foot or horse. As a person with three national parks, and one of the largest wilderness areas in the country,in my back yard, I am fed up, we don't need any more wilderness. Managage what me have . Yes, I am a hunter, and I do respect the land, I have four sons, they're all hunters and tough guys too. But this land grab will slowly take away their hunting access, get real, NO MORE WILDERNESS!
Thanks, Doug.
 
LAST EDITED ON Nov-13-08 AT 10:10PM (MST)[p]thanks for for the reply. if your picking on me, that's fine, I'm working on the bill as we speak, there's nothing in the parts i've read or worked on that will preclude you from hunting. . . I'm not sure what your beef is, you really kinda talked in a circle, i'm not sure what your point was, but you'll be able to access the "new" wilderness in the bill, you'll be able to hunt, fish, graze and use it. . . and if the day comes that we find a higher and better use for it, i'm sure we'll write now laws to do just that, for now i'm okay with putting that option in the hands of my kids and theirs. . . .

You could always move or go someplace where you dont have to live in such a beautiful place. . . the wilderness war is being won by progressives, I guess the ATV heads will just have to find another place to destroy.

BTW, I'm not far behind you in age my friend but I still climb like a 20 year old billy goat, hunt the highest and roughest remote places i can find, live with grizzly bears in my back yard, wolves and cougars wonder around and I want my kids to be able to do the same.

Different strokes for different folks. . . I'm sorry you dont have enough land to drive around in, but like I said, it's a free country feel free to take advantage of that freedom. . .

Piece.



www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Your example is a rare case, every wilderness area in Oregon is open to all hunters with the exception of exept road hunters. I'd rather take my chances on a wilderness area becoming off limits to hunting than to chance it nothing will happen to screw it up, the odds are in my favor.

Most wilderness areas are open to about any non motorized activity, even grazing allotments are still in effect in many so to say they're a loss is beyond me.

California and Texas are two places you shouldn't compare to the rest of the nation when it comes to just about anything.


















m
 
Brownie- the Idealism that you speak of is what is hurting this country, no more wilderness would be a tough pill to swallow in many areas,I could go on and on about the places in Nevada that are basicly ruined for deer hunting because of easy motorized access, never again will young hunters be able to walk a couple miles get away to the areas that big bucks like, and jump one only to watch that wide rack go through the trees, thats why when I was younger for years I never slept a wink the night before the opener, kids don't get that experence much anymore and I think they are poorer because of it, I really don't get where you are coming from, I have a great memory of the time I drove my motorcycle from Bakersfield through Queens valley towards Tonopah, I had no map but I went off on a little dirt road to where it ended at the base of Mt. Montgomery,I climbed up and up through the steep canyons soon all the trees were ancient Bristlecones, I climbed Montgomery then went down a notch over to Boundary peak, the highest in Nevada although its just a sub peak, it was mid june so I glissaded several thousand feet down and climbed down another vertical mile to my bike, I was a little too tired to make it all the way back to Elko, almost though, the wilderness act is about making those experences available for future generations
 
I like Wilderness as much or more than anyone here. I think we have enough now though. Here is an incomplete list of the ones we have in California and Nevada. (more have been added or are being added since this list was compiled). Many of these are several hundred thousand acers in size.

Do you think we need more?

CALIFORNIA:

Agua Tibia Wilderness
Ansel Adams Wilderness
Argus Range Wilderness
Big Maria Mountains Wilderness
Bigelow Cholla Garden Wilderness
Bighorn Mountain Wilderness
Black Mountain Wilderness
Bright Star Wilderness
Bristol Mountains Wilderness
Bucks Lake Wilderness
Cache Creek Wilderness
Cadiz Dunes Wilderness
Caribou Wilderness
Carrizo Gorge Wilderness
Carson-Iceberg Wilderness
Castle Crags Wilderness
Cedar Roughs Wilderness
Chanchelulla Wilderness
Chemehuevi Mountains Wilderness
Chimney Peak Wilderness
Chuckwalla Mountains Wilderness
Chumash Wilderness
Cleghorn Lakes Wilderness
Clipper Mountain Wilderness
Coso Range Wilderness
Coyote Mountains Wilderness (California)
Cucamonga Wilderness
Darwin Falls Wilderness
Dead Mountains Wilderness
Death Valley Wilderness
Desolation Wilderness
##### Smith Wilderness
Dinkey Lakes Wilderness
Domeland Wilderness
El Paso Mountains Wilderness
Emigrant Wilderness
Farallon Wilderness
Fish Creek Mountains Wilderness
Funeral Mountains Wilderness
Garcia Wilderness
Golden Trout Wilderness
Golden Valley Wilderness
Granite Chief Wilderness
Grass Valley Wilderness
Hauser Wilderness
Havasu Wilderness
Hollow Hills Wilderness
Hoover Wilderness
Ibex Wilderness
Imperial Refuge Wilderness
Indian Pass Wilderness
Inyo Mountains Wilderness
Ishi Wilderness
Jacumba Wilderness
Jennie Lakes Wilderness
John Muir Wilderness
Joshua Tree Wilderness
Kaiser Wilderness
Kelso Dunes Wilderness
Kiavah Wilderness
King Range Wilderness
Kingston Range Wilderness
Lassen Volcanic Wilderness
Lava Beds Wilderness
Little Chuckwalla Mountains Wilderness
Little Picacho Wilderness
Machesna Mountain Wilderness
Malpais Mesa Wilderness
Manly Peak Wilderness
Marble Mountain Wilderness
Matilija Wilderness
Mecca Hills Wilderness
Mesquite Wilderness
Mojave Wilderness
Mokelumne Wilderness
Monarch Wilderness
Mount Lassic Wilderness
Mt. Shasta Wilderness
Newberry Mountains Wilderness
Nopah Range Wilderness
North Algodones Dunes Wilderness
North Fork Wilderness
North Mesquite Mountains Wilderness
Old Woman Mountains Wilderness
Orocopia Mountains Wilderness
Otay Mountain Wilderness
Owens Peak Wilderness
Pahrump Valley Wilderness
Palen/McCoy Wilderness
Palo Verde Mountains Wilderness
Phillip Burton Wilderness
Picacho Peak Wilderness
Pine Creek Wilderness
Pinnacles Wilderness
Piper Mountain Wilderness
Piute Mountains Wilderness
Red Buttes Wilderness
Resting Spring Range Wilderness
Rice Valley Wilderness
Riverside Mountains Wilderness
Rodman Mountains Wilderness
Russian Wilderness
Sacatar Trail Wilderness
Saddle Peak Hills Wilderness
San Gabriel Wilderness
San Gorgonio Wilderness
San Jacinto Wilderness
San Mateo Canyon Wilderness
San Rafael Wilderness
Sanhedrin Wilderness
Santa Lucia Wilderness
Santa Rosa Wilderness
Sawtooth Mountains Wilderness
Sequoia-Kings Canyon Wilderness
Sespe Wilderness
Sheep Mountain Wilderness
Sheephole Valley Wilderness
Silver Peak Wilderness
Siskiyou Wilderness
Snow Mountain Wilderness
South Fork Eel River Wilderness
South Nopah Range Wilderness
South Sierra Wilderness
South Warner Wilderness
Stateline Wilderness
Stepladder Mountains Wilderness
Surprise Canyon Wilderness
Sylvania Mountains Wilderness
Thousand Lakes Wilderness
Trilobite Wilderness
Trinity Alps Wilderness
Turtle Mountains Wilderness
Ventana Wilderness
Whipple Mountains Wilderness
Yolla Bolly-Middle Eel Wilderness
Yosemite Wilderness
Yuki Wilderness

NEVADA:

Alta Toquima Wilderness
Arc Dome Wilderness
Arrow Canyon Wilderness
Bald Mountain Wilderness
Becky Peak Wilderness
Big Rocks Wilderness
Black Canyon Wilderness (Nevada)
Black Rock Desert Wilderness
Boundary Peak Wilderness
Bridge Canyon Wilderness
Bristlecone Wilderness
Calico Mountains Wilderness
Clover Mountains Wilderness
Currant Mountain Wilderness
Death Valley Wilderness
Delamar Mountains Wilderness
East Fork High Rock Canyon Wilderness
East Humboldt Wilderness
Eldorado Wilderness
Far South Egans Wilderness
Fortification Range Wilderness
Goshute Canyon Wilderness
Government Peak Wilderness
Grant Range Wilderness
High Rock Canyon Wilderness
High Rock Lake Wilderness
High Schells Wilderness
Highland Ridge Wilderness
Ireteba Wilderness
Jarbidge Wilderness
Jimbilnan Wilderness
Jumbo Springs Wilderness
La Madre Mountain Wilderness
Lime Canyon Wilderness
Little High Rock Canyon Wilderness
Meadow Valley Range Wilderness
Mormon Mountains Wilderness
Mt. Charleston Wilderness
Mt. Grafton Wilderness
Mt. Irish Wilderness
Mt. Moriah Wilderness
Mt. Rose Wilderness
Muddy Mountains Wilderness
Nellis Wash Wilderness
North Black Rock Range Wilderness
North Jackson Mountains Wilderness
North McCullough Wilderness
Pahute Peak Wilderness
Parsnip Peak Wilderness
Pinto Valley Wilderness
Quinn Canyon Wilderness
Rainbow Mountain Wilderness
Red Mountain Wilderness
Ruby Mountains Wilderness
Santa Rosa-Paradise Peak Wilderness
Shellback Wilderness
South Egan Range Wilderness
South Jackson Mountains Wilderness
South McCullough Wilderness
South Pahroc Range Wilderness
Spirit Mountain Wilderness
Table Mountain Wilderness
Tunnel Spring Wilderness
Wee Thump Joshua Tree Wilderness
Weepah Spring Wilderness
White Pine Range Wilderness
White Rock Range Wilderness
Worthington Mountains Wilderness
 
Would that be because the liberal tree hugger dems have already screwed CA. up and now want to take it nation wide? There is a number of those posted by Eel that allows no hunting or even the discharge of a firearm within their boundaries.

RELH
 
eel - thats what the act is all about, people realizing that some places are special and need protecting, many of those in Nevada are quite small, the WSAs in Elko county haven't been addressed yet, if the roadless areas in that county get dropped from protection then wildlife loses and young and future hunters really lose, thats the problem with not going about this case by case, it never used to be a big concern, now if some area is not protected it gets roaded up and crowded fast unless its really rugged, and all the wilderness areas I can remember visiting allow hunting
 
Sorry I forgot Oregon. I didn't mean any disrespect. I included Arizona too

OREGON

Badger Creek Wilderness
Black Canyon Wilderness
Boulder Creek Wilderness
Bridge Creek Wilderness
Bull of the Woods Wilderness
Cummins Creek Wilderness
Diamond Peak Wilderness
Drift Creek Wilderness
Eagle Cap Wilderness
Gearhart Mountain Wilderness
Grassy Knob Wilderness
Hells Canyon Wilderness
Kalmiopsis Wilderness
Mark O. Hatfield Wilderness
Menagerie Wilderness
Middle Santiam Wilderness
Mill Creek Wilderness
Monument Rock Wilderness
Mount Hood Wilderness
Mount Jefferson Wilderness
Mount Thielsen Wilderness
Mount Washington Wilderness
Mountain Lakes Wilderness
North Fork John Day Wilderness
North Fork Umatilla Wilderness
Opal Creek Wilderness
Oregon Islands Wilderness
Red Buttes Wilderness
Rock Creek Wilderness
Rogue-Umpqua Divide Wilderness
Salmon-Huckleberry Wilderness
Sky Lakes Wilderness
Steens Mountain Wilderness
Strawberry Mountain Wilderness
Table Rock Wilderness
Three Arch Rocks Wilderness
Three Sisters Wilderness
Waldo Lake Wilderness
Wenaha-Tucannon Wilderness
Wild Rogue Wilderness

ARIZONA

Apache Creek Wilderness
Aravaipa Canyon Wilderness
Arrastra Mountains Wilderness
Aubrey Peak Wilderness
Baboquivari Peak Wilderness
Bear Wallow Wilderness
Beaver Dam Mountains Wilderness
Big Horn Mountains Wilderness
Cabeza Prieta Wilderness
Castle Creek Wilderness
Cedar Branch Wilderness
Chiricahua National Monument Wilderness
Chiricahua Wilderness
Cottonwood Point Wilderness
Coyote Mountains Wilderness (Arizona)
Dos Cabezas Mountains Wilderness
Eagletail Mountains Wilderness
East Cactus Plain Wilderness
Escudilla Wilderness
Fishhooks Wilderness
Fossil Springs Wilderness
Four Peaks Wilderness
Galiuro Wilderness
Gibraltar Mountain Wilderness
Grand Wash Cliffs Wilderness
Granite Mountain Wilderness
Harcurvar Mountains Wilderness
Harquahala Mountains Wilderness
Hassayampa River Canyon Wilderness
Havasu Wilderness
Hells Canyon Wilderness
Hellsgate Wilderness
Hummingbird Springs Wilderness
Imperial Refuge Wilderness
Juniper Mesa Wilderness
Kachina Peaks Wilderness
Kanab Creek Wilderness
Kendrick Mountain Wilderness
Kofa Wilderness
Mazatzal Wilderness
Miller Peak Wilderness
Mount Baldy Wilderness
Mount Logan Wilderness
Mount Nutt Wilderness
Mount Tipton Wilderness
Mount Trumbull Wilderness
Mount Wilson Wilderness
Mount Wrightson Wilderness
Muggins Mountain Wilderness
Munds Mountain Wilderness
Needle's Eye Wilderness
New Water Mountains Wilderness
North Maricopa Mountains Wilderness
North Santa Teresa Wilderness
Organ Pipe Cactus Wilderness
Paiute Wilderness
Pajarita Wilderness
Paria Canyon-Vermilion Cliffs Wilderness
Peloncillo Mountains Wilderness
Pine Mountain Wilderness
Pusch Ridge Wilderness
Rawhide Mountains Wilderness
Red Rock-Secret Mountain Wilderness
Redfield Canyon Wilderness
Rincon Mountain Wilderness
Saddle Mountain Wilderness
Saguaro Wilderness
Salome Wilderness
Salt River Canyon Wilderness
Santa Teresa Wilderness
Sierra Ancha Wilderness
Sierra Estrella Wilderness
Signal Mountain Wilderness
South Maricopa Mountains Wilderness
Strawberry Crater Wilderness
Superstition Wilderness
Swansea Wilderness
Sycamore Canyon Wilderness
Table Top Wilderness
Tres Alamos Wilderness
Trigo Mountain Wilderness
Upper Burro Creek Wilderness
Wabayuma Peak Wilderness
Warm Springs Wilderness
West Clear Creek Wilderness
White Canyon Wilderness
Woodchute Wilderness
Woolsey Peak Wilderness
 
I'm still looking for the gun ban language in the bill, if someone knows where it's located, will they please show me so that I can raise it as an issue . . .

Again, please help me, show me where in the bill it limits or restricts guns and i will help by citing that issue, among others in my correspondence.


www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
I've hunted in half those oregon wilderness areas, yes hunted, I don't know of any where hunting or guns are banned unless maybe a metro park type area near Portland or something.

Point is unless you're too lazy to walk or too soft to ride a horse wilderness areas are nothing to be afraid of as a hunter.
 
When I read that list it makes me think we do some things pretty well in America, sometimes it gets depressing when you see so much change going on around, but those people that pushed the wilderness legislation through years ago have my admiration, thats government at its best, looking ahead into the future, If it weren't for Teddy Roosevelt a century ago and people like Stewart Udall four or five decades ago future generations wouldn't have much looking forward, here where I live some of the prominent Ranchers in the area pushed years ago to protect a large part of the Wind Rivers as Wilderness
 
The fact that there is no lanuage in the bill that will restrict hunting or firearms is somewhat of a moot issue. That lanuage can be added later in the form of an ammendant, or restrictions placed by the agency overseeing the newly acquired land like the U.S. Parks have done.

Now if the bill had lanuage that stated it would not hamper or restrict hunting and the use of firearms would make it a bill that alot more of us could support very strongly.
Maybe you should bring that issue up and see if you get support or opposition from sponsers of the bill. I would not be surprised if you find support very lacking on that issue.

RELH
 
it's covered by "traditional" and "historic" use, unless it's excluded, and gun hunting if it's been done at all on the land is captured by "traditional" and "historical" use. Making laundry lists of things that people can do is not wise. It is on the other hand smart to put limits in there so as to be clear about the intent.

Later if there ever is litigation a list will imply that ONLY things IN the bill are allowed, and if we leave out unicycles then a judge could rule that unicycles never were intended because if they were, the use would have been listed.

Traditional use in almost all cases includes hunting, unless there already are restrictions. For example, today, there are national parks and some monuments including the Mall and the Whitehouse in WA DC, that wisely restrict firearms.



www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
I've never seen a designated Wilderness that didn't allow hunting. They are there for your enjoyment, and that's great. You can hike, ride horses, camp, fish, hunt, etc.

I think the down side is that the land is put aside as is. Pretty much hands off by humans. No logging or mineral extraction, even under the most strict regulations. No habitat improvement allowed. On the other hand (generally) no fire suppression allowed. The Wilderness designation is intended to let nature take its course, with no impact from man. And I think some Wilderness is great!

Originally it was used to set aside an area that had some unique features which would best be preserved in this way.

Now, I feel that the Wilderness designation is totally abused. It is now a tool for every environmental-nature faker organization out there. It is used not to preserve an area as much as it is to keep man out.

I know a guy who used to have a gold claim on a small creek. He ran a 3" dredge under regulation of the Fish&Game and the Forest Service. He used mules to get his equipment in and out. He was only allowed to dredge about 2 months a year. He even had to put any rocks back that he moved. A few years ago the area was turned into a Wilderness area, so he lost his claim. Ridiculous!

That's my rant, and I know, I just wasted my time!

Eel
 
things have changed a lot in the last 5 or so years. a lot of mistakes have been made in the past. Today every group or person or organization has a stake in the outcome of a wilderness designation. Call your congressman, and senator, they are likely directly involved in the area youre concerned with. Today NO senator is going to allow a wilderness area that has not had a lot of discussion from all sides. If you dont like something talk to you leadership and get involved.

It works, all the organizations and even individual people in my neck of the woods have weighed in and so far everyone is happy, all sides. Sure there are few motor heads that are pissed, but in my area, while a few motor heads are pissed, the outfitters, guides, packers and trail riders all are doing dances. There are two guys who hold NFS leases for outfitting and they have not not used them in several years due to atv's. When this wilderness bill gets passed, they will once again be back in business - it's really a jobs program for for some. . . for others it's just something to get mad and moan about. . .




www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Tony I do not buy ito your "blanket cover all" approval of this bill and that it will be all good for hunters. The orginal post shows that it also includes land that will be going to National parks and we all know where U.S. Park Service stands on hunting and firearms in their park boundaries.
So there goes your "traditional use" clause right out the window from the get go. How much more are we being hoodwinked about?

RELH
 
To worry about hunting being banned from an area more than getting protection for that area is absurd.
I'm for responsible multiple use of public lands but lets face it we have a very small percentage of these lands with a wilderness area label so lets keep that in mind. a wilderness area can always be screwed up later if that's what the people want or need a lot easier than it can be fixed.

The wilderness areas here in Oregon mostly were from very rough areas that would have cost more to put roads in than the logs that would have come out were worth, so lets get of this notion that everything we ever needed lays right behind that wilderness sign.
 
blanket approval, I think I said read it. . .

www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 
Doug, do you know me from me from those days? I'm sorry if I dont know you as brownie. . . Shoot me an email or PM if you want.

Tony


www.tonybynum.com

"Roadless areas, in general, represent some of the best fish and wildlife habitat on public lands. The bad news is that there is nothing positive about a road where fish and wildlife habitat are concerned -- absolutely nothing." (B&C Professor, Jack Ward Thomas, Fair Chase, Fall 2005, p.10).
 

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